TL Mafia LXIV: The Restart - Page 6

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 13:28 GMT

#1529

On January 29 2014 22:23 kushm4sta wrote:
@mocsta
in LOL PYP oats was lynched because of some shit koshi invented. He was the last scum left alive.
Also Coag trolled quite a bit in that game and he was scum. So i don't see how your coag read makes any sense.

Coag did not troll until he launched a nuke.

I had to ask the fucking hosts not ONLY for what hero he chose.. but what fucking night action he submitted

COS HE ZIPPED HIS MOUTH THE WHOLE FUCKING TIEM.

dont you fucking tell me who scum coag plays on TL.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 13:30 GMT

#1531

And you can read the last couple posts of a filter and think oats was lynched because of an item.

But the item was given to him sepcifically because of emotinoal investment.

You are reading the end destiatnion, and forgetting the journey.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 13:37 GMT

#1534

On January 29 2014 22:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think I conceded. Game was depressing.

Yeah I dont like that case Mocsta.
1 - Why are you attacking someone for having the same scumread as you?

2 - 2nd point is irrelevant to your's or skanjab's alignment.

3 - Bum activity levels are relatively similar too, only that burst of action after the lynch separates them.

4 - The Coag thing is a non-issue.

1. Because I dont want people to agree with me. I want to know how they got their.
Skanjab cannot answer that.

Anyone can bus or +1 an argument. If there was any credit given to Skanjab it is because he raised Coag in the thread before I did (I think). Without substantiation, there is no credit though.

2. It is irrelevant for him to outline why he is now stating you are scum? Are you serious?

3. So Balla made a big deal about my IRC smurfing.
Balla has gone out of his way to be vague in discussions and not contribute anything in reads?
Balla has made a catch up post that is actually not even up to date with the thread; and then hasnt returned?

Cos i dont know any similarity Oats.

4. See #2.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 13:52 GMT

#1539

On January 29 2014 22:42 Oatsmaster wrote:
Activity =/= content.

1. Skanjab is now defending coag I think. Im not sure.
2. Its irrelevant for either of your alignments at this point of time. Im not sure why you think that its scummy.

Im pretty sure Skanjab is calling You, me + Coag a scum team.

2. When did I say its scummy. I found something I wanted him to detail more on?

I dont get why you think its acceptable for someone to come in and make a blanket statement with no justification.

Activity may not equate to zero content
but
zero accountability may equates to scum.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 13:57 GMT

#1541

On January 29 2014 22:50 Skanjab1s wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 29 2014 22:19 Mocsta wrote:

Show nested quote +

Explain why it doesnt make sense from a town perspective, and moreso why it is weak.

I have a specific reason why Coag came into my mind. You instead randomly conjure him as a scumread -- one that I think is accurate as well. In my quote I actually argue your sentence actually applies to yourself.

It's very obvious why this is weak. And it does not make sense from a town perspective because you say right here that you are suspicious of me because I started considering coag scum. not because I didn't give reasoning.
It makes no sense for a townie to be suspicious of someone ONLY because they think the same person is scum, that's not logical.

On January 29 2014 22:19 Mocsta wrote:

Show nested quote +

I dont give a shit how Oats plays on OMGUS. He has a commonly accepted specific meta tell to his scum play and that is emotional investment. Again refer to PyP LoL, a game where Coag, oats and myself were all scum. oats was lynched BECAUSE of emotional investment.

Wait what? This is a direct contradiction to what you just said before.
You just said that "Some things that Oats have done you consider quite townie (I.e. emotionally invested in the game)
And now you are saying that his emotional investment is a SCUMTELL?
You've slipped, dear, the cracks are starting to show, you're contradicting yourself.

On January 29 2014 22:19 Mocsta wrote:

The most interesting thing I see here is the bolded, specifically: the scum team according to you is Coag, myself and now Oatsmaster.

Please outline why Oatsmaster is scum as this is the first I have heard of it from you.

Show nested quote +

How are Bum and Balla following similar paths in this game. You are cherry picking phrases to mix apples and oranges.

If you need it paraphrased: I state that I can't get an updated read on Balla because hes ignoring me.
If this continues into Day2 I will find it scummy he is avoiding me.

Bum's activity level has dropped, according to you.
Balla's activity level has dropped, according to you.
I'm mixing apples with apples and you're trying to convince me that I'm wrong on my fruit.

On January 29 2014 22:19 Mocsta wrote:

The icing on the cake:

Show nested quote +

Explain. An easy statement backed up by nothing.

It is up to the person making the claim to provide evidence.
You lied about Coag's meta. Now when I call you out on the lie (which is very obvious, because I (and kush) have played many more games with Coag than you have, and we both agree that your meta point is wrong) you tell me to provide evidence? (1) That's silly, and thats not how claims work. (2) Kush has already provided this evidence for you.

Baby seals pls.

I was going to retort but I couldnt stop laughing at:

If you can not comprehend the intent of what I wrote, its not even worth continuing this discussion.

Other than... Coags meta. (I am in the middle of a post about that) but lets play a game anyways.
Pretend I lied about Coags meta.
Again why is that scummy. Meta is subjective by nature.
Am i voting Coag?
Am i asking the thread to vote for Coag?
Explain to me, what I am doing that is promoting a scum agenda...

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 14:00 GMT

#1543

On January 29 2014 22:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
calling a townie scum is always promoting a scum agenda.

So everyone that wanted QP lynched is scum.. or just promoting a scum agenda.

because if its #1 or #2.. why am I being cherry picked Oats.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 14:08 GMT

#1546

On January 29 2014 23:06 Oatsmaster wrote:

Show nested quote +

Is it not true?
This isnt about other people at all. Its an objective statement. React to it properly.

No its not true. Its a completely stupid statement.

The point of the game is for town to lynch scum.

Part of that process is for people to call each other scum and figure out who is bullshit and who is genuine.

How does that promote a scum agenda?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 14:08 GMT

#1547

On January 29 2014 23:01 Skanjab1s wrote:
Okay, so now Mocsta just makes an excuse to not defend himself because he knows he can't.

GG Scum caught, champagne for everyone

Sounds to me, you are making the excuse to not answer my question.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 14:15 GMT

#1549

Small meta report on Coag.

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 29 2014 22:34 kushm4sta wrote:
dude there is a fuck ton of trolling before the nuke
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=436086&user=Coagulation

Big calls

Game Started:

On November 30 2013 12:09 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ban/Draft Phase

But I believe he replaced in so I think started Dec 2.

On December 10 2013 12:03 Mid or Feed wrote:
Coagulation, as Impact, playing Ziggs, has been lynched!

Coagulations last post within game time is his 2nd last post on PAGE 2 of his filter.

In total, 38 posts over 9 days. So just over 4 posts per day average.

Post per day
Dec 2 - 1
Dec 3 - 1
Dec 4 - 2
Dec 5 - 5
Dec 6 - 0
Dec 7 - 8
Dec 8 - 13
Dec 9 - 2
Dec 10 - 6

Examples of posts he makes:

On December 07 2013 12:09 Coagulation wrote:
lol

On December 07 2013 12:10 Coagulation wrote:
bite me

Occasionally if someone refers to him in the thread, he will make a troll post back in retaliation.

Overall, his entire filter is devoid of enforcing any progress on the game at any point in time.
Otherwise what I refer to as "doing nothing" or others may refer to as an extremely low activity level.
At least as town he has a higher standard of base activity or what i refer to as "trolling"

So how did other players in the game judge Coag?

Im disappointed to say my memory served me wrong.
I spent a long time lokoing through the filters of most of the players in the game ctrl+F

and pretty much only found this:

On December 04 2013 12:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah he replaced another unreadable troll. Lucky us.

On December 04 2013 12:23 Mocsta wrote:
BM.. i see.

Coag barely posts as town. Does he post as scum on OMGUS?

On December 04 2013 12:24 VisceraEyes wrote:
On average he posts around 10000% more on OMGUS games than TL games. He doesn't care about looking dumb over there, where he does here...I think is what it boils down to.

Thats when I realised my concept of Coag meta was formed on voice mafia from all of us talking about Coag.
Us referring to RAyn, DP, VE etc
So there you go, I have no proof in the forum.

I can safely say though that the gist was
As town, Coag has minimum # of posts he makes to show he is reading the thread etc
As scum, he struggles to post and does the absolute minimum which yes, is less than his town play.

Anyways, for comparison to Kush i checked 1 town Coag game
"The Game" was his last town game according to the database and finished DAY 3
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057&user=Coagulation&view=all

A Clearly different filter. Full of actual "paragraphs" and hit 5 pages....

Case closed and move on.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 14:16 GMT

#1550

On January 29 2014 23:12 Oatsmaster wrote:

Show nested quote +

because scum wins when townies get lynched.

If you seriously want to continue this line of discussion, PM me.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 14:22 GMT

#1552

On January 29 2014 23:19 Oatsmaster wrote:
dude Im calling out your bullshit in the thread, I dont want to pm you, that defeats the purpose.

You are talking about mafia theory. Its not a game specific question.

Seriously.. matters of opinino on mafia theory do not make a player scum. Its personal preference regardless of alignment.

Like i said, take it to PMs if you want to continue. Thats the last I will say on this in teh thread.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 14:26 GMT

#1554

Are you trying to play to your town meta by making stupid retarded arguments?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 15:07 GMT

#1557

Oh because bitch says yes

the answer is yes i see

Im town yo and my meta is right.

See skanjab, my argument is not fallacious.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 15:31 GMT

#1560

On January 30 2014 00:21 Oatsmaster wrote:

Show nested quote +

\o/

Coag plays how he feels like Mocsta. Meta doesnt really work on him. Anyway, you really think he is scummier than Bum/Balla?

bum is my sole priority

there is one other who shall remain unnamed but i need to talk to bc first.
i've been waiting up for him, but its looking like our paths wont cross

hopefully when i wake up at least bum (or balla, others) have chimed in.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 15:44 GMT

#1562

On January 30 2014 00:40 kushm4sta wrote:
Ok why is bum scum? Did you already explain to the thread in full detail? Are you sheeting rayns case

Beating the same drum won't change the sound.

Bum has added nothing new to the information existing.

I and others have already discussed what issues there are with the CURRENT information.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 15:57 GMT

#1564

On January 30 2014 00:53 kushm4sta wrote:
The case on m in bum is his activity sucks.

Fuck off Kush.

There is no stupid fucking case. And I havent asked a single person to vote him.

There s more than activity, but right now - you dont need to know it. Right now, bum needs to post...

All you are doing now is giving people like Bum and Balla a convenient reason *NOT* to post.

/Good night.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 16:04 GMT

#1566

On January 30 2014 00:58 kushm4sta wrote:
The case in bum is that his activity sucks. That's all I keep hearing. Other shit like abandoning mayor, that is so weak.

Get your ear wax removed then.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 16:05 GMT

#1567

Good night for real now.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 29 2014 18:03 GMT

#1585

FOR THE TOWN

and:

[01:35] <Mocsta> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=440856&currentpage=17#327
[01:35] <Mocsta> "i'm just bringing the info i get forward"
[01:35] <Mocsta> "its proibably too scummy to be scum or whatever"
[01:35] <Mocsta> This is *erally* bad
[01:35] <Mocsta> (1) hes boosting his contribtuion as pro-town
[01:36] <Mocsta> (2) hes simulteanously discredtiing himself
[01:36] <Mocsta> + & - = 0 = blend = scum

##Vote: Balla24

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

January 30 2014 01:44 GMT

#1681

On January 30 2014 10:37 kushm4sta wrote:
[redacted]
grack what you saw in that qt was also a ~~joke.~~ TROLL

FTFY

Below are the ~~joke~~ troll PMs kush coached me with last night.

+ Show Spoiler [scum coaching] +

Original Message From kushm4sta:
you are going to want to argue the definition of "trolling." You want to point out that coag was inactive for long periods of that game.

Original Message From Mocsta:
Thanks for the hot tip.

Original Message From kushm4sta:
dw i won't discuss these in the thread because that would be a violation of coach/student confidentiality.

Original Message From Mocsta:
You realise you are over inflating small details right?

Original Message From kushm4sta:
in my scumread of you? i am looking at the reasons you think people are scum. those are not small details.

Original Message From Mocsta:
you are looking at snippets; and in regards to coag specifically are nitpicking word choices to suit what you want. This is fact given by the start of this PM exchange. "Define "trolling""

I have not built what I define as a case on anyone, yet. If you want to post that into the thread go ahead.

What I have done is convey issues I have with people, and am awaiting responses. Similar to what you have been doing - hence no vote.

Now you can react to the above however you want, IDC.

What i want to know is Skanjab. Do you think he is genuine or leaping at an opportune moment?

Original Message From kushm4sta:
Im saying that you, as scum, need to start nitpicking word choices as a scumstrat to get out from under your reads that make no sense. Like you need to start nitpicking your own words so that you can misconstrue them as possibly townie. That's how I would play it if I were you anyway.

Original Message From kushm4sta:
OK now you say "oh whoops i misremembered lol. ok maybe coag is null"

Original Message From Mocsta:
Actually

Im doing the PyP meta read.. its 400 pages give me abreak and return feedback on what i asked about skanjan.

his filter is 3 pages lol I linked it in the thread. But anyway I thought up a great idea for you. You can say that it's not necessarily trolling that is the scumtell (you just wrote that because that's what he does mostly). Moreseo what you were talking about was his activity level. If it's town he will always maintain a base activity level, but as scum he takes advantage of his image sometimes and lets it drop to nothing.
So it goes if he has no activity, he is scum.
If he has activity, he is either scum or town.
So that is a way you can explain your metaread of coag that looks more valid

Original Message From Mocsta:
You know its funny, thas actually a much more succinct phrasing of what my understanding of his meta is.

See, this is why i said you were nitpicking me before.

I used the words: trolling as town; does nothign as scum.

To me, what you wrote below is the same thing, just written technically correct.

Thanks Kush

What i dont get is.. if you knew this is what i meant all along, why try and chastise me?

Original Message From kushm4sta:
Go ahead use it. Coach/student confidentiality so you're safe and I'll pretend like you came up with it.

Original Message From Mocsta:
Already did actually

but in all seriousness

did you know what i meant the whole time? If so, whats your problem.

Original Message from kushm4sta:
shh no more tears. we both know you're scum. don't fight it.

Original Message From Mocsta:
why are you avoiding what im writing?

Original Message From kushm4sta:
If you need any more help with the revision of your coag read, feel free to PM me.

Original Message From Mocsta:
so u think coag is town?

Original Message From kushm4sta:
Fuck no. I think he's null leaning scum.
You could very easily be busing him

Original Message From Mocsta:
I have been after coag since night 1

BEFORE skanjab talked about him

i have logs to prove it.. i havent raised it, because its not necessary

explain why i would be bussing him night 1

Original Message From kushm4sta:
He's the perfect scum to bus actually.

Original Message From Mocsta:
Do you want me to acknowledge the troll or just repeat how bad you are.

You know you do this to me every game now right?

Original Message From kushm4sta:
Hmmm? Coag could be town or you could be busing him. I'm not sure which yet.
I think it's totally normal for Scum to start sowing the seeds for a coag bus d1

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