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On May 24 2014 00:58 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 00:55 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 14:30 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 14:07 Hapahauli wrote:On May 23 2014 13:57 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2014 13:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Hm. That lynch result was unfortunate. Though the good news is that we have a lot of material to work with - these crazy late vote swaps always generate good information.
I'll be reading the buildup to the lynch tomorrow, as I just drove 8 hours and I'm dead tired. My first instinct is to look into players on the Odin wagon that followed Blazinghand's RNG lynch as opposed to lynching Odin for actually being suspicious of him. Yell0w stuck with his early RNG vote on Odin despite having several other scum-reads in his filter. Alakaslam never mentioned a scum-read on Odin either (other the RNG stuff). Not sure if that's just Slam being Slam, but that's objectively pretty terrible.
Obviously there are more people to look into than the two I mentioned above - Cavalihno's case looks interesting at first glance, and I'll need to verify that myself after I get some sleep. Tambo essentially wasting his vote late in the cycle is also very bad.
Since several people expressed concern about my own actions during the lynch, I can't defend myself other than simply not being able to post while driving on a highway. My travel schedule today was terrible, and I really wish I could have been around for the deadline.
Instead, I had a very short time to get acquainted with BlazingHand's case, saw a bunch of reputable players follow it, and kinda just went with the flow. Given the result and hindsight, I very much regret how it played out, but there was very little I could do today to help it. can you name the reputable players without looking and also say if you think they are town this game Marv/Kita/BH off the top of my head. The thing is, it doesn't really matter if they're town. Given that there are multiple factions, it's highly likely that mafia and town can have similar objectives (lynching other factions). If you want my surface reads on them... BH = Town Kita = Null Marv = Slight-Town Of course it matters if they're town because you want to find not-town people and they could be pushing agendas as not town?? Are you solely saying that you followed them because their names were all up there and pretty like? Now that you know he was town do they look more suspicious to you for providing 0 reasoning for lynching odin? Kita doesn't even mention wanting to lynch odin at all afaik in his entire filter. On May 23 2014 06:34 kitaman27 wrote:
There were a couple of people who voted for Odin based on a "logically sound case", rather than actually sharing a belief that he was mafia.
I know some may consider this a matter of semantics here, but I put some value into it. Will look back later. ^ does that look more strange to you now considering that? Kita falls into that category of people but he wants to look into those people. Does that make sense? I don't know - I'm going to look at the lynch right now and see what I find. But yes I sorta just went with the flow on the last lynch, basically because their names were "shiny". There's really not much else I can do while driving. Was it a good idea in hindsight? Probably not. I did manage to skim the BlazingHand case enough to think it was pretty good (as did many other people), and thought my vote would be of better use consolidating with the rest of the town. What about the kita stuff? :p
Errr Holyflare... you realize that Kita didn't vote for Odin, right? He kept his vote on Valeinus the whole time.
Which is also my mistake as well, because I could have freggin sworn that he did when I made my own vote.
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not reading any more of alakaslam po..
hang on i wasn't anyway
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Hello, Scumeling 
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Kita reads as town for me.
Except this disgustingly well placed post for a scum
On May 23 2014 02:38 kitaman27 wrote:
It's kinda funny how my opposition to the BH rng argument has prevented me from actually considering that Odin could be mafia on principle.
This was posted 10mins before bh's "case".
Marv and cav +1'd on it. These 2 also proceeded to bote switch to Odin.
kita+bh scum buddies? Marv+cav looking at an opportunity to jump to start a ml train?
Time will show.
Leaning towards the latter.
And yeah I know associative reads this early are not exactly optimal but I believe that due to multiple factions, people who share a qt will rely on each other subconsciously and there will be slips like that.
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On May 24 2014 02:44 Xatalos wrote:Hello, Scumeling
Oh look another omgus case.
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That analysis by Ver was pretty good. If applied to this game, I think it makes Foolishness pretty town (he's mostly focused on reads here instead of general stuff).
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On May 24 2014 02:46 Steveling wrote:Oh look another omgus case.
If you consider that a case, I don't know what to say :D
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Steve, it's like you don't understand the game of mafia in any way
the chances of one mafia player going "+1" to another mafia player into trying to mislynch someone are about zero. That's literally the opposite of the way people operate.
also given the meaning behind the post(s) is "i have not been considering odin as mafia", how it's meant to setup a mislynch on Odin is anyone's guess. The mind truly boggles.
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On May 24 2014 02:51 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 02:46 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 02:44 Xatalos wrote:Hello, Scumeling Oh look another omgus case. If you consider that a case, I don't know what to say :D
Judging by your standards boting on Odin I would say this is a quality case of you.
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On May 24 2014 02:52 marvellosity wrote:
Steve, it's like you don't understand the game of mafia in any way
the chances of one mafia player going "+1" to another mafia player into trying to mislynch someone are about zero. That's literally the opposite of the way people operate.
also given the meaning behind the post(s) is "i have not been considering odin as mafia", how it's meant to setup a mislynch on Odin is anyone's guess. The mind truly boggles.
I disagree.
If I were scum this game that's exactly what I'd do.
Multiple factions allow for this kind of play.
Boggles my mind how a vet don't understand that.
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On May 24 2014 02:52 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 02:51 Xatalos wrote:On May 24 2014 02:46 Steveling wrote:On May 24 2014 02:44 Xatalos wrote:Hello, Scumeling Oh look another omgus case. If you consider that a case, I don't know what to say :D Judging by your standards boting on Odin I would say this is a quality case of you.
Think what you will. To be clear, that was a joke. It's weird that I have to say it out loud.
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And btw xat, you do realise you are omgus'ing me, right?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
yes, you're much more likely to be right than me, of course.
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On May 24 2014 02:36 layabout wrote:
not reading any more of alakaslam po..
hang on i wasn't anyway
Lim po tzu, my good man
ORANGE NISSAN QUEST 2004 TELL THE POLICE
just spreading the amber alert <3
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Hmm, that's a good point. Should I be more suspicious of people who voted Odin at the start for reasons entirely based on RNG or should I be more suspicious of people who voted him after I wrote my case?
I think it depends on what the person did after voting him, if they did in fact vote him early for rng reasons. There are people who voted him, then went to use their votes in other ways. I'm gonna talk about Yell0w, who was my most steadfast RNG supporter throughout D1
at first, yell0w had a different idea for how rng ought to work.
On May 21 2014 07:04 Yell0w wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 06:57 Xatalos wrote:
If most players randomed their votes separately, it would just end up with scum getting to choose their preferred lynch. LMAO I disagree, if most people randomed their votes, the ones who didn't would instantly look scummy and we could lynch them tomorrow. Everyone would RNG their votes if most people did it, because they'd know how bad it would make them look otherwise.
This thinking is so obviously and blatantly incorrect I'd be somewhat surprised if he was scum. Scum would care a lot about how they appear, and making a statement like this shows a certain amount of "I didn't consult with anyone before posting this thought" that makes me think he's not in a scum QT. It's possible he just made this post without the help of teammates, but I feel like he'd be advised to back off of it at the very least.
He then throws in his towel with me:
On May 21 2014 08:55 Yell0w wrote:
Okay so I'm behind an RNG lynch, I understand my idea wouldn't work since people don't want to random their vote and if most don't do it it'll never work, so I'll just vote Odin. I was willing to wait for people to say why they were against it, but nobody gave a good reason not to do it, in my opinion.
##Vote: OdinofPergo
and then he jsut has conversational posts. His next major post is 12+ hours later:
On May 21 2014 22:48 Yell0w wrote:So I'm going to go ahead and explain my actions since some people want to lynch me, I'm gonna answer poofter's accusation first: Show nested quote +@Sqrt Look at what Yellow has said since then. Hes super on board with the random lynch and gives up on his idea. He throws dirt on Steve when someone comes in and tells him to stop shitting up the thread (I think steve is town so no on that) + Show Spoiler + This screams of TMI like how do you know there are multiple scum factions could be town + scum + third party shenanigans?
@yellow I voted you because of the above and other minor interjections where you're saying "wow that looks scummy of you" basically nudging a wagon into happening instead of actually pressuring someone with voting and a case sounds more like you're pointing people to be like "hey look boys X did something scummy what do we do?" like a not get your hands dirty type of play.
So first of all, I don't get how thinking a random lynch is a good idea is in way alignment indicative and I still think Steve is probably town, but his play has been very anti-town, talking a lot and saying absolutely nothing except that HF was mafia for no reasons. This whole me thinking there are multiple scum factions is kind of a silly argument, I just think it's the most likely scenario, don't see how that makes me scum. As far as I know, most possible 3rd party roles are anti town, so they're scum. Hm, I guess if I am a 3rd party anti-town myself I would know there are at least one other scum faction, maybe the argument isn't as silly as I first thought. I think the second part refers to what I said about Slam, I just thought him acting the way someone said he does when he's town is something a scum player would do, I don't know what was wrong with me pointing it out. I don't know if he is scum or not, clearly others know him and know how to read him, so I'm going to let them read him because I certainly have no idea. And the other person who voted against me was BlueyD, he said: Show nested quote +Yellow’s is just...
-a lot of rng discussion with very few reads,
-that switch from “BH’s method doesn’t work well” to “okay let’s do it”, and the general fact he’s for rng lynch
-mentions the fact that there are multiple scum factions twice and seems to think it’s important.
- and there’s at least one gem of defensive thought right here: Once again assuming a random lynch is scummy, which I still don't get, and the issue with BH's method isn't that it doesn't work well, it's just that it's not as RNG as it could be since people know what they're voting for before voting, I asked questions about it since this is my second game and no one brought it up in my first game and I wanted to know people's thoughts on it. Nobody really answered though, people either said my idea was good or it was bad, without saying why, no one answered my questions about BH's method and the general idea I got from the thread is that RNG lynches are just not fun, which I don't think is a good argument. So I thought about it some more and came to the conclusion his method was the best RNG method since people aren't willing to random their votes. I didn't really see it as a contradiction, even though everyone seems to think it was, I wasn't fully against it in my first post, I just asked some questions about it and then thought about it and concluded it was fine. I already talked about the multiple scums faction thing, but yes I do think what the other factions are is important, why would it not be important? And I don't get your last point at all. I'm town here guys, I don't think I did anything scummy, I especially didn't like BlueyD's case, I think it was really weak, like because I talked about RNG I'm scum, that doesn't make sense to me. Anyways, I'm gonna give my general reads a bit later, I still need to catch up to the thread though, I didn't give any reads earlier because it's hard when everyone knows each other and knows each other's plays when I don't, I'm worried I'll say silly things and call someone suspicious for doing what everyone knows is his town game, but I'll definitely give reads on the people I played with.
and is mostly a defensie post. he/she follows it up though with this post full of reads. Exerpted it from it:
On May 22 2014 00:19 Yell0w wrote:
tamburini: scum, I didn't like the big post he made, it all seemed like fluff, he was basically just giving his gut reads on people as he was reading the thread, which is pretty much useless to anyone but him. He's been very different from the game I played with him where he was town.
I thought I'd have more time to do this but my friend showed up and wants to play chess, but for now, with tamburini, my biggest scum read is jampidampi and biggest town reads are poofter and hapa.
And, when the lynch comes down to RNG vs his scumread, he's nowhere to be found. He disappears and never has to weigh in on whether he'd rather lynch RNG or his scumread, and has not returned since then, even though judging by when he's usually active he should have posted right now. Even better, the lynch has already happened so he can just say what's convenient for him. So yeah I'd say pretty good chance he's scum.
Man all this filter diving is lame, I kinda want to just wait and see if I get shot THEN do all the work but if I do get shot how will you guys win unless I leave something behind? As the only competent townie I have a responsibility to lead, even from the grave.
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On May 24 2014 02:56 marvellosity wrote:
yes, you're much more likely to be right than me, of course.
As meapak said to bh, town down the douche vet harping.
You guys are ruining the game.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On May 24 2014 02:58 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 02:56 marvellosity wrote:
yes, you're much more likely to be right than me, of course. As meapak said to bh, town down the douche vet harping. You guys are ruining the game.
Unless of course Marv and I are scum and we're intentionally being douch-vet-harps (what a bad mental image!) to trip you up hue hue hue
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Well there's a reason that new guys run away screaming after a couple games here.
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On May 24 2014 02:58 Blazinghand wrote:Hmm, that's a good point. Should I be more suspicious of people who voted Odin at the start for reasons entirely based on RNG or should I be more suspicious of people who voted him after I wrote my case? I think it depends on what the person did after voting him, if they did in fact vote him early for rng reasons. There are people who voted him, then went to use their votes in other ways. I'm gonna talk about Yell0w, who was my most steadfast RNG supporter throughout D1 at first, yell0w had a different idea for how rng ought to work. Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 07:04 Yell0w wrote:On May 21 2014 06:57 Xatalos wrote:
If most players randomed their votes separately, it would just end up with scum getting to choose their preferred lynch. LMAO I disagree, if most people randomed their votes, the ones who didn't would instantly look scummy and we could lynch them tomorrow. Everyone would RNG their votes if most people did it, because they'd know how bad it would make them look otherwise. This thinking is so obviously and blatantly incorrect I'd be somewhat surprised if he was scum. Scum would care a lot about how they appear, and making a statement like this shows a certain amount of "I didn't consult with anyone before posting this thought" that makes me think he's not in a scum QT. It's possible he just made this post without the help of teammates, but I feel like he'd be advised to back off of it at the very least. He then throws in his towel with me: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 08:55 Yell0w wrote:
Okay so I'm behind an RNG lynch, I understand my idea wouldn't work since people don't want to random their vote and if most don't do it it'll never work, so I'll just vote Odin. I was willing to wait for people to say why they were against it, but nobody gave a good reason not to do it, in my opinion.
##Vote: OdinofPergo and then he jsut has conversational posts. His next major post is 12+ hours later: Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 22:48 Yell0w wrote:So I'm going to go ahead and explain my actions since some people want to lynch me, I'm gonna answer poofter's accusation first: @Sqrt Look at what Yellow has said since then. Hes super on board with the random lynch and gives up on his idea. He throws dirt on Steve when someone comes in and tells him to stop shitting up the thread (I think steve is town so no on that) + Show Spoiler + This screams of TMI like how do you know there are multiple scum factions could be town + scum + third party shenanigans?
@yellow I voted you because of the above and other minor interjections where you're saying "wow that looks scummy of you" basically nudging a wagon into happening instead of actually pressuring someone with voting and a case sounds more like you're pointing people to be like "hey look boys X did something scummy what do we do?" like a not get your hands dirty type of play.
So first of all, I don't get how thinking a random lynch is a good idea is in way alignment indicative and I still think Steve is probably town, but his play has been very anti-town, talking a lot and saying absolutely nothing except that HF was mafia for no reasons. This whole me thinking there are multiple scum factions is kind of a silly argument, I just think it's the most likely scenario, don't see how that makes me scum. As far as I know, most possible 3rd party roles are anti town, so they're scum. Hm, I guess if I am a 3rd party anti-town myself I would know there are at least one other scum faction, maybe the argument isn't as silly as I first thought. I think the second part refers to what I said about Slam, I just thought him acting the way someone said he does when he's town is something a scum player would do, I don't know what was wrong with me pointing it out. I don't know if he is scum or not, clearly others know him and know how to read him, so I'm going to let them read him because I certainly have no idea. And the other person who voted against me was BlueyD, he said: Yellow’s is just...
-a lot of rng discussion with very few reads,
-that switch from “BH’s method doesn’t work well” to “okay let’s do it”, and the general fact he’s for rng lynch
-mentions the fact that there are multiple scum factions twice and seems to think it’s important.
- and there’s at least one gem of defensive thought right here: Once again assuming a random lynch is scummy, which I still don't get, and the issue with BH's method isn't that it doesn't work well, it's just that it's not as RNG as it could be since people know what they're voting for before voting, I asked questions about it since this is my second game and no one brought it up in my first game and I wanted to know people's thoughts on it. Nobody really answered though, people either said my idea was good or it was bad, without saying why, no one answered my questions about BH's method and the general idea I got from the thread is that RNG lynches are just not fun, which I don't think is a good argument. So I thought about it some more and came to the conclusion his method was the best RNG method since people aren't willing to random their votes. I didn't really see it as a contradiction, even though everyone seems to think it was, I wasn't fully against it in my first post, I just asked some questions about it and then thought about it and concluded it was fine. I already talked about the multiple scums faction thing, but yes I do think what the other factions are is important, why would it not be important? And I don't get your last point at all. I'm town here guys, I don't think I did anything scummy, I especially didn't like BlueyD's case, I think it was really weak, like because I talked about RNG I'm scum, that doesn't make sense to me. Anyways, I'm gonna give my general reads a bit later, I still need to catch up to the thread though, I didn't give any reads earlier because it's hard when everyone knows each other and knows each other's plays when I don't, I'm worried I'll say silly things and call someone suspicious for doing what everyone knows is his town game, but I'll definitely give reads on the people I played with. and is mostly a defensie post. he/she follows it up though with this post full of reads. Exerpted it from it: Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 00:19 Yell0w wrote:
tamburini: scum, I didn't like the big post he made, it all seemed like fluff, he was basically just giving his gut reads on people as he was reading the thread, which is pretty much useless to anyone but him. He's been very different from the game I played with him where he was town.
I thought I'd have more time to do this but my friend showed up and wants to play chess, but for now, with tamburini, my biggest scum read is jampidampi and biggest town reads are poofter and hapa. And, when the lynch comes down to RNG vs his scumread, he's nowhere to be found. He disappears and never has to weigh in on whether he'd rather lynch RNG or his scumread, and has not returned since then, even though judging by when he's usually active he should have posted right now. Even better, the lynch has already happened so he can just say what's convenient for him. So yeah I'd say pretty good chance he's scum. Man all this filter diving is lame, I kinda want to just wait and see if I get shot THEN do all the work but if I do get shot how will you guys win unless I leave something behind? As the only competent townie I have a responsibility to lead, even from the grave.
Well...
Could you read layabout then? Clearly I am deeply confused...
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EPT
