Please read the entire thread before signing up. Thank you.
*DarthPunk, Aquanim, Phagga, Mocsta and Ange777 will be co-hosting this game. Please ensure you send all night actions to both them and myself. Yes, ALL of us.
Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox, or really any screenshots of things from the game. 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. 9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits. 10. Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account. Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Rules specific to this game are also shown in blue text in this thread.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity: You must post in this thread at least once per 24 posting hours while you are alive. Night time does not count against activity requirements, since you can't post at night. I'll probably try to warn you first, but if you fail to follow activity rules, you will be inactivity modkilled. If you are inactivity modkilled, I will be very sad ;_;
Off-Topic: Try to stay on-topic while playing. I'll let you know if it's off-topic.
Smurfs: If you want to smurf, let me know. Smurfs are welcome.
Hydras: If one of the players would like to hydra with someone else, that is acceptable. Please inform me. Your hydra can have any name, but the signature should be something like "Hydra of Blazinghand and WBG for Extractor Trick Mini Mafia" so that people know which two players you are.
Spam: Try not to spam. If it happens, it happens. Sometimes you gotta double post and so on, especially if it's a slow day and nobody else is posting. Don't worry about it too much, but try to consolidate posts when possible. If I think you're spamming I'll tell you to stop. Not stopping is strictly prohibited. If more than 10 posts on a page are yours, you're probably spamming.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing is not allowed. Do not edit posts. You get one (1) warning for editing. After that, you will be modkilled. No editing.
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
As a general guideline: Stuff like "this argument is dumb because XYZ" is fine. Stuff like "you are doing ABC, which is dumb" or "you're dumb because you do ABC, and ABC is dumb" is fine. Stuff like "you're dumb. lolooloooo" is not fine. Insults and abrasive play happen, but it must all be oriented towards trying to win the game. Don't be that guy. The main thing is: don't insult for the purpose of insulting only. I'm very verbal about people getting out of line, so if you cross the line I will let you know. I am not afraid to ruin a game of mafia for 10 people and 4 hosts just to modkill someone.
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ PUT YOUR FAITH IN THE LIGHT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
Reporting posts: The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions: Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. If you're not playing to win I will modkill you. But this won't be a problem, because if you don't want to win you can just not sign up k?
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned! bwahahaha
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in the voting thread. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Blazinghand. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3.5. If your vote is on someone, make sure to ##Unvote when you vote someone new (you can do this in the same post). 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game-- or rather, such votes will not count. 4.5. You can vote for a no-lynch if you want to. 5. This game follows an instant simple majority lynch. The instant a player has the majority of votes on him, the day ends. So if there are 8 players you need 5 to lynch, if there are 7 players you need 4 to lynch. 6. Voting by the end of a mandated cycle is mandatory. If the day ends due to a lynch, it's okay to not have voted. 7. Once a majority has been reached, please do not post until the night is over.
Signups:
Eligibility This game is open to anyone, but we are using Wisdom of the Crowds, see below for details. Anyone may sign up for this game if they have played at least 1 game on TL Mafia. If this is your first game on TL but you have played elsewhere and want to sign up, please PM me and we'll work something out.
Special Signup rule: Wisdom of the Crowds If you do not wish to play with a player for any reason, PM me, if I receive enough votes against a player (five or more) then he or she will not be allowed to play in this game. Your vote against a player will be held in the strictest confidence. You *must* be signed up to vote against someone. I reserve the right to override this rule, and also to bar players from signing up for this game based entirely on my own arbitrary judgement.
Invites This is a NON invite game. Signups are totes open.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List, and also type /sitout in the thread here.
Replacements I love replacements, but I hope never to use them. There are 3 replacement slots, so sign up if you're interested. Replacements will be made up until the start of D3. You're encouraged to find your own replacement if you need to replace out, and if you do so, I will smile upon you.
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a night-less/deadline-less day cycle. The day lasts until a majority is reached. If enough time passes without a majority being lynched, I will post in the thread and state a deadline for a no-lynch in order to prevent horrible 3-week-long days where nothing happens. If a day happens to be long but discussion is still moving, I will not do this. You may not post at night. The night lasts until all night actions are in to both me and the co-hosts. After that, I'll wait a certain amount of time between 0 hours and 12 hours, then post the day post. This delay is to protect the anonymity of scum and blues.
Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Special thanks to Foolishness for going over this setup with me. Thanks to Probulous since I stole this OP from him and modified it to my nefarious needs. Also thanks to Hapahauli for helping me with the instant lynch mechanics, and to Phagga, Mocsta, and Ange777 for co-hosting.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I might give you candy.
I am open to questions any time. If something doesn't make sense, please ask.
Setup Type This is a semi-closed setup. Which roles are available will be listed, but aside from how many mafia members there are, there is no other setup information. There can be 0+ of any role.
Zerg Macro Acceleration Trickery This game will follow a night-less/deadline-less day cycle. The day lasts until a majority is reached. If enough time passes without a majority being lynched, I will post in the thread and state a deadline for a no-lynch in order to prevent horrible 3-week-long days where nothing happens. If a day happens to be long but discussion is still moving, I will not do this. Night begins immediately after the flip. You may not post at night. The night lasts until all night actions are in to both me and the co-hosts. After that, I'll wait a certain amount of time between 0 hours and 12 hours, then post the day post. This delay is to protect the anonymiity of scum and blues.
Microed Workers
Mineral Line Drone (Vanilla Townie): You are a lucky drone! The Player rightclicked you onto a mineral patch, and ever since, you have been mining away. You live a quiet life on the mineral line. You are a VT. Find and defeat mismicroed idle drones.
9 Scout (Parity Cop): Some drones aren't destined for a quiet life on the mineral line. Some are meant for something more. You are the fastest, the best, the brightest of drones. Unlike most drones who recieve less than 1 APM from the Player, you recieve more than 10 during your scouting missions. You see things that few other drones see. It is by your recon that the swarm lives. Each night you target someone, and you're told if the alignment of your target is the same or different as your previous target. Your N1 check tell you an alignment, but is necessary for your N2 check to work. You can't check yourself. You are Sane. Find and defeat the mismicroed idle drones.
Creep Colony (Doctor): Some drones aren't destined for a quiet life on the mineral line. Some are meant for something more. You were chosen by The Player for a glorious future as a Creep Colony. Your powers include being part of the simcity and producing creep. Glory to the swarm! Each night, you can save someone from a nightkill. You can't protect the same player twice in a row. You can't save yourself. Find and defeat the mismicroed idle drones.
Manner Hatchery (Jailkeeper): Some scout drones do the truly glorious thing, transcending all other scout drones. Yes, you see the enemy producing many workers, he is not rushing-- he is going for a Forge Fast Expand. Well, you can't let that happen. No, you shall BLANKET his natural in an OCEAN of creep! Each night, you can save someone from a nightkill. However, doing so also roleblocks them. There is no RB notification besides a blue's action not working. This RB resolves after any scum RB. It does not supress GF appearing green to checks. You can't save yourself. Find and defeat the mismicroed idle drones.
Drone Stack (1-shot Vigilante): Defend the hatchery! Marines in the base! Don't let the bunker get up! 1a1a1a1a1a1a-- At night, you can choose to fire your single bullet with butterfly drone wings. Your target will be hit with 1 kp. If you are RBed, you get your bullet back. If your target is protected by a JK or a Doctor, you do not get your bullet back. Find and defeat the mismicroed idle drones.
Overlord (Masoner): Reeeyqhe? Greeyohhhhhh. You are a masoner. Each night, you select a target. You may speak with that target in a QT that I will provide during the next day phase. Find and defeat the mismicroed idle drones.
Regeneration Micro Drone (Veteran): During hideous worker vs worker fights (they happen, believe me) the drones have an advantage because they can be microed back to regenerate. A skilled player can do pretty well using drones to fight if they're careful. They won't kill anything tougher than enemy workers most of the time though. You are a veteran. You have two night lives; once you've been shot once, you have only one night life. A RB suppressed your night life.
Town Win Condition - The town wins when there are no mafia left in the game or nothing can prevent that from happening.
Mismicroed Idle Drones
Forgotten at the Rally Point (Mafia Goon): So, somehow you got left at the rally point and nobody knows you even exist. Nice going, hotshot. You are scum. You have no special powers. You win when scum outnumbers town or nothing can prevent that.
AFK in the Mineral Line (Mafia RB): This is a great one. Your Player clicked you at the minerals but somehow missed CLICKING THE STATIONARY MINERAL PATCH. Now most of what you do is stand around and impede other drones from mining. It's actually pretty impressive how unproductive you are. You are scum. Each night, you can RB someone. The target is only notified of RB by the results of his own night action failing. Therefore, Doctors, Vets and JKs are not aware when they are RBed. You win when scum outnumbers town or nothing can prevent that.
Incompetent Scouting Drone (Mafia GF): Oh, your Player dun GOOFED. This isn't even a base. He meant to send you to see what's going on in the enemy base, but instead sent you to the opponent's third. Then he forgot about you. Here you are, hanging out, doing nothing, gathering bad information. You are scum. You return green to checks. You win when scum outnumbers town or nothing can prevent that.
Mafia Win Condition - The mafia wins when there are no remaining townies or nothing can prevent that from happening. Mafia KP is factional.
Gumshoe (filter)Mineral Line Drone Lynched D1 thrawn2112 (filter)AFK in the Mineral Line shot N1 Yamato77 (filter)Mineral Line Drone Lynched D2 raynpelikoneet (filter)9 Scout shot N2
With your /in post, please also write: "I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night."
/in "I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night."
/in "I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night.
/in "I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night."
/in "I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night."
I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night.
I love D2 MYLO games, people must actually participate, a lot! <3
A couple small changes have been made to the available roles in the game. All changes are in the 2nd post with the role list. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.
On December 31 2013 04:01 justanothertownie wrote: Mafia Win Condition - The mafia wins when there are no remaining townies or nothing can prevent that from happening. Mafia KP is factional. Wow...
I think it's the best wincon. Most people are like "when mafia outnumber townies" or some weird shit like that but honestly if somehow, say, town is 2 vigis, mafia is 3 goons, and there's 2 survivors, mafia outnumber town. BUT, both town vigis could claim survivor and scum could accidentally lynch a survivor. Then, at night, scum shoots the other survivor, and both town vigis shoot into scum. Next day is 2-1 lylo!
If there is every any possible way for town to win, the game is not over.
I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night.
I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night.
PS am looking for 2 more cohosts, europe and US time ideally
On December 31 2013 09:21 Aquanim wrote: /in for now, want to think about it a little
I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night.
I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night.
I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night.
Following Another Drone (Mafia Tracker): Your Player made a small mistake and right-clicked on another drone rather than the mineral patch! You're going everywhere they go, and doing everything they do... except anything useful, like actually gathering minerals. Good work. tracker role details
the number of times I've done this... QQ
Come to think of it, since a drone like this doesn't show up as idle it might have worked for GF too.
On December 31 2013 10:41 Blazinghand wrote: Want to co-host, DP? We need one more!
Sure, as long as I don't have to do very much.
You don't have to do anything but vote count, and we have a separate voting thread so it will be hideously easy. Your main job will be being awake while i'm asleep so if there's a majority you can tell all these noobs to stop posting.
On December 31 2013 10:41 Blazinghand wrote: Want to co-host, DP? We need one more!
Sure, as long as I don't have to do very much.
You don't have to do anything but vote count, and we have a separate voting thread so it will be hideously easy. Your main job will be being awake while i'm asleep so if there's a majority you can tell all these noobs to stop posting.
"I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night."
This is spoken with the understanding that I should either spam or speak my mind, except at night whence I must shut up. I also know that if I am last to vote, the requirement to shut up is immediate. And finally,
...
... That this game is based on my Broodwar play XD
"I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night."
So the thing both artanis and gonzaw are missing from their /in posts is pretty easy to find and also in all the other /in posts. whoever makes a new post (or edits their current /in post appropriately) first will be considered /in.
I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night.
I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night.
/in or /replace I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night.
On January 04 2014 05:14 Blazinghand wrote: last night? salad. it had baby chard and spinach and some other greens. I thin k the chard is what held together the best.
Swiss chard is tough stuff, given water you can grow it in pebbly sand!
It is also very good for you. However, sorry it didn't work out- get well soon!
At 9 control and approximately 70-80 Minerals, send a Drone to build an Extractor, reducing your control to 8. Immediately build a Drone, raising your control to 9. At this point cancel the Extractor, which will return your Drone, leaving your control at 10/9.
Incognito the Ultralisk has been misplaced! Foolishness the Drone briefly turned into an extractor! Worker efficiency is down to 70%!
Welcome to Day 1. This Day ends instantly when a majority is reached to lynch. With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Make sure to vote in the voting thread.
On January 04 2014 06:21 Alakaslam wrote: Hey Rayne. So, how do you plan to do that? Teach me the way. Is it to lynch a lurker? Something else?
Ppl where you all at?
I watch out what being said by other people makes sense in a way that i feel like helps the town figuring out stuff and what doesn't.
It's 7-3, so in a way yes, lurkers should be under more scrutiny in this setup. D2 is MYLO, there is absolutely no room for a single lurker/non-contributor. May that be a warning for everyone from the beginning.
On January 04 2014 06:21 Alakaslam wrote: Hey Rayne. So, how do you plan to do that? Teach me the way. Is it to lynch a lurker? Something else?
Ppl where you all at?
I watch out what being said by other people makes sense in a way that i feel like helps the town figuring out stuff and what doesn't.
It's 7-3, so in a way yes, lurkers should be under more scrutiny in this setup. D2 is MYLO, there is absolutely no room for a single lurker/non-contributor. May that be a warning for everyone from the beginning.
So what now? Hopeless, Coag, you guys have entered. Anything to say? I mean, besides stuff like "I'm town" because the basis of this game is that scum will lie...
On January 04 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote: I feel a golden oportunity was missed, the flavour should have been the last thoughts of an extractor trick drone that doesnt get cancelled T_T.
On January 04 2014 06:32 Alakaslam wrote: So what now? Hopeless, Coag, you guys have entered. Anything to say? I mean, besides stuff like "I'm town" because the basis of this game is that scum will lie...
On January 04 2014 06:32 Alakaslam wrote: So what now? Hopeless, Coag, you guys have entered. Anything to say? I mean, besides stuff like "I'm town" because the basis of this game is that scum will lie...
Also, AMA.
no. still town though.
Hijole... I was hoping you all could spark mine.
You up for a lurker lynch? If not, does that start you forming a read on Rayne & I?
Heck and why not- EVERYONE THAT COMES. Let's discuss whether or not to lynch a lurker because at least it's something to discuss, and fwiw I think Rayne makes a good point but he could be scum- make me sure or make me understand?
Hopefully, there will be no lurkers for a lurker lynch. But nonetheless here it is, if you have something better to discuss feel free to put it out there.
On January 04 2014 06:46 Hopeless1der wrote: define lurker. Also, yes.
Not a modkill, ie someone who doesn't vote or post period. Lurker is defined one of two ways, by a ninja vote ( something im familiar with) or a post count that is significantly lower than the average.
On January 04 2014 06:22 gumshoe wrote: I feel a golden oportunity was missed, the flavour should have been the last thoughts of an extractor trick drone that doesnt get cancelled T_T.
On January 04 2014 07:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe if you were mafia what would you be talking with your scumbuddies in the scum QT atm?
Dude I feel like I could ask everyone this right now.
I mean, it is stupid to say it's scummy to agree with me, but hopeless & Coag been pretty short & simple posts that are noncommittal in nature. We all saw posting requirements are aggressive; so let's post something to say!
20524821 mod10 is 1. I should have defined player 10 as 0 but that should be self-evident. 1) kushm4sta (filter) 2) alakaslam (filter) 3) Gumshoe (filter) 4) Hopeless1der (filter) 5) Raynpelikoneet (filter) 6) coagulation (filter) 7) [UoN]Sentinel (filter) 8) Yamato77 (filter) 9) thrawn2112 (filter) 10) Mr. Cheesecake (filter)
Sorry kush, nothing personal. BlazingHand's rules and all
On January 04 2014 07:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe if you were mafia what would you be talking with your scumbuddies in the scum QT atm?
Alakaslam is the focus of this game right now, hes made the only real proposition, if hes town then scum is discussing if hes serious about the whole lurker thing or if hes baiting scum. Theyre wondering how long until they can back him or if they should jump on him for making "asinine" discussion. If hes scum they're wondering how town will react to his conversation starter and planning for each possible response. They may also be planning a bus.
Some Rule Clarifications: You will never be informed of an RB, regardless of your role/alignment. The only evidence will be a night action not working. A cop or Pcop gets told if their ability doesn't work, even on the first night for a pcop. A vigi gets refunded the bullet if RBed, but otherwise gets no refund. A Veteran, Doctor, or JK receives no PM informing them of RBs. Mafia RB takes place before town JK's RB.
Scum KP is factional.
Doctors and JKs, and people protected by them, are not informed of night hits / saves. A Vet, however, is informed if they were shot and they lost their night life. A vet is not informed if they were saved.
'Slam seems pretty town to me, the lurker lynch and all. Doesn't feel like he has anybody to talk to (scum qt), wants to jump right into things.
Random lynch I normally support but the whole day 2 mylo thing puts me on edge. In terms of Hopeless' alignment, I remember hopeless was scum in the last big game and did nothing, so him doing something to thrust himself outward is a sign of towniness.
I have no idea why Gumshoe actually answered Rayns question, in fact why DID you ask the question, Rayn. The one about mafia talking in QT. Purpose?
On January 04 2014 07:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: 'Slam seems pretty town to me, the lurker lynch and all. Doesn't feel like he has anybody to talk to (scum qt), wants to jump right into things.
Random lynch I normally support but the whole day 2 mylo thing puts me on edge. In terms of Hopeless' alignment, I remember hopeless was scum in the last big game and did nothing, so him doing something to thrust himself outward is a sign of towniness.
I have no idea why Gumshoe actually answered Rayns question, in fact why DID you ask the question, Rayn. The one about mafia talking in QT. Purpose?
On January 04 2014 07:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: 'Slam seems pretty town to me, the lurker lynch and all. Doesn't feel like he has anybody to talk to (scum qt), wants to jump right into things.
Random lynch I normally support but the whole day 2 mylo thing puts me on edge. In terms of Hopeless' alignment, I remember hopeless was scum in the last big game and did nothing, so him doing something to thrust himself outward is a sign of towniness.
I have no idea why Gumshoe actually answered Rayns question, in fact why DID you ask the question, Rayn. The one about mafia talking in QT. Purpose?
On January 04 2014 07:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: So do you have an opinion on Alakaslam atm? Or are you withholding judgement for some reason? Also Hopeless' random lynch; thoughts?
His neutral activity is null, Alakaslam leans townie only because other people are kinda just trolling around in hopes of derailing the thread/baiting, the first of which is bad the second of which is negative good. Holy flaires thing is just dumb, scummy/reckless townie.
On January 04 2014 07:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: 'Slam seems pretty town to me, the lurker lynch and all. Doesn't feel like he has anybody to talk to (scum qt), wants to jump right into things.
Random lynch I normally support but the whole day 2 mylo thing puts me on edge. In terms of Hopeless' alignment, I remember hopeless was scum in the last big game and did nothing, so him doing something to thrust himself outward is a sign of towniness.
I have no idea why Gumshoe actually answered Rayns question, in fact why DID you ask the question, Rayn. The one about mafia talking in QT. Purpose?
On January 04 2014 07:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: 'Slam seems pretty town to me, the lurker lynch and all. Doesn't feel like he has anybody to talk to (scum qt), wants to jump right into things.
Random lynch I normally support but the whole day 2 mylo thing puts me on edge. In terms of Hopeless' alignment, I remember hopeless was scum in the last big game and did nothing, so him doing something to thrust himself outward is a sign of towniness.
I have no idea why Gumshoe actually answered Rayns question, in fact why DID you ask the question, Rayn. The one about mafia talking in QT. Purpose?
I kinda want to lynch you just for this post.
Why?
"But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic."
On January 04 2014 07:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: So do you have an opinion on Alakaslam atm? Or are you withholding judgement for some reason? Also Hopeless' random lynch; thoughts?
His neutral activity is null, Alakaslam leans townie only because other people are kinda just trolling around in hopes of derailing the thread/baiting, the first of which is bad the second of which is negative good. Holy flaires thing is just dumb, scummy/reckless townie.
On January 04 2014 07:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: 'Slam seems pretty town to me, the lurker lynch and all. Doesn't feel like he has anybody to talk to (scum qt), wants to jump right into things.
Random lynch I normally support but the whole day 2 mylo thing puts me on edge. In terms of Hopeless' alignment, I remember hopeless was scum in the last big game and did nothing, so him doing something to thrust himself outward is a sign of towniness.
I have no idea why Gumshoe actually answered Rayns question, in fact why DID you ask the question, Rayn. The one about mafia talking in QT. Purpose?
I kinda want to lynch you just for this post.
Why?
"But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic."
Ok seriously fuck off. I was too pro-town last game and got lynched for it, and I flipped town. It's just a joke on how I used to play. I'm trying to become better, and if everyone is going to yell at me for being pro-town as town then what's the point of playing.
On January 04 2014 07:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: So do you have an opinion on Alakaslam atm? Or are you withholding judgement for some reason? Also Hopeless' random lynch; thoughts?
His neutral activity is null, Alakaslam leans townie only because other people are kinda just trolling around in hopes of derailing the thread/baiting, the first of which is bad the second of which is negative good. Holy flaires thing is just dumb, scummy/reckless townie.
On January 04 2014 07:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: 'Slam seems pretty town to me, the lurker lynch and all. Doesn't feel like he has anybody to talk to (scum qt), wants to jump right into things.
Random lynch I normally support but the whole day 2 mylo thing puts me on edge. In terms of Hopeless' alignment, I remember hopeless was scum in the last big game and did nothing, so him doing something to thrust himself outward is a sign of towniness.
I have no idea why Gumshoe actually answered Rayns question, in fact why DID you ask the question, Rayn. The one about mafia talking in QT. Purpose?
I kinda want to lynch you just for this post.
Why?
Because scum knows who town is, and your early read sounds too confident for a blind townie.
On January 04 2014 07:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe if you were mafia what would you be talking with your scumbuddies in the scum QT atm?
Alakaslam is the focus of this game right now, hes made the only real proposition, if hes town then scum is discussing if hes serious about the whole lurker thing or if hes baiting scum. Theyre wondering how long until they can back him or if they should jump on him for making "asinine" discussion. If hes scum they're wondering how town will react to his conversation starter and planning for each possible response. They may also be planning a bus.
well rayn's playstyle aside I dont know how hes so confident either. There are no smurfs and holy's not in this game, so its something other than that.
On January 04 2014 07:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: 'Slam seems pretty town to me, the lurker lynch and all. Doesn't feel like he has anybody to talk to (scum qt), wants to jump right into things.
Random lynch I normally support but the whole day 2 mylo thing puts me on edge. In terms of Hopeless' alignment, I remember hopeless was scum in the last big game and did nothing, so him doing something to thrust himself outward is a sign of towniness.
I have no idea why Gumshoe actually answered Rayns question, in fact why DID you ask the question, Rayn. The one about mafia talking in QT. Purpose?
I kinda want to lynch you just for this post.
Why?
Because scum knows who town is, and your early read sounds too confident for a blind townie.
Gumshoe, did you think this before Yamato expressed concern with my post (which is too pro-town, btw), or did you suddenly find fault with it after Yamato had mentioned it?
On January 04 2014 07:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe if you were mafia what would you be talking with your scumbuddies in the scum QT atm?
Alakaslam is the focus of this game right now, hes made the only real proposition, if hes town then scum is discussing if hes serious about the whole lurker thing or if hes baiting scum. Theyre wondering how long until they can back him or if they should jump on him for making "asinine" discussion. If hes scum they're wondering how town will react to his conversation starter and planning for each possible response. They may also be planning a bus.
points of the post
1: alakaslam is the most important, no one else had done much at the time of me saying this, so yes i bilieve this.
2: Scum consider if hes making a ploy or if hes serius, and as a result theyre considering backing him for townie points or attacking him to get a mislynch or draw chaos. I also bilieve this.
3: Alakaslam is scum and hes showmanning, possible, not as likely cause i dont consider him scummy which ive said before, but I felt the need to provide a hypothetical answer to a hypothetical question.
4: Planning a bus, yesterday we lost 2 games in voice to scum players bussing their partners because the games were small enough for this tactic to work(this game is also small). I have won a game in voice as well by bussing, when I asked the players if it's possible to do it in forum, they provided personal examples where theyve done it and won so I am now wary of it. So yes I bilieve this is a possibility.
I'm sorry if you think my guesses are off, it probably has something with me not being scum.
By the way are you admitting that your read on me is impulsive?
On January 04 2014 07:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Vote: gumshoe
And why do you think im scum? Your not a very impulsive player so I assume you have some thing to back up your convictions.
I also want to know where do you base this statement of yours on?
Voice and games ive read of you, when your town your a bit slower to action and more patient with the game because you recognize that fast lynches can easily go in favour of scum. The only times I've seen you play rashly is when your scum and attempting to secure a fast hammer (voice) or using your rep to disregard everything townie players say (witchcraft). The reason I'm not sure if your scum this game is because I have known you to make fake cases/claims to find actual scum, your eagerness to start a train might be you looking for fast jumpers.
On January 04 2014 08:10 yamato77 wrote: Between gumshoe and rayn, I would rather lynch rayn.
Dont like this ) : we should never be tryng to box ourselves in so early on unless were in a counter claim scenario, why do you feel the need to constrain just because Rayn is playing reckless/baity?
On January 04 2014 08:10 yamato77 wrote: Between gumshoe and rayn, I would rather lynch rayn.
Dont like this ) : we should never be tryng to box ourselves in so early on unless were in a counter claim scenario, why do you feel the need to constrain just because Rayn is playing reckless/baity?
Rayn and Gumshoe both claim town, therefore this is a counterclaim scenario.
On January 04 2014 08:10 yamato77 wrote: Between gumshoe and rayn, I would rather lynch rayn.
Dont like this ) : we should never be tryng to box ourselves in so early on unless were in a counter claim scenario, why do you feel the need to constrain just because Rayn is playing reckless/baity?
Rayn and Gumshoe both claim town, therefore this is a counterclaim scenario.
XD there can be more than one town, your argument is invalid.
On January 04 2014 08:10 yamato77 wrote: Between gumshoe and rayn, I would rather lynch rayn.
Dont like this ) : we should never be tryng to box ourselves in so early on unless were in a counter claim scenario, why do you feel the need to constrain just because Rayn is playing reckless/baity?
Now I feel townier about Gumshoe. If I was under pressure as mafia, and some random townie (assuming yam town) aspired to kill rayn (town in this case) and not me I would be happy to shut up and let Yamato push my agenda.
On January 04 2014 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Based on what? And why does it have to be between us?
1) You're being too friendly to me.
2) You're being too aggressive towards gumshoe based on a stupid question that YOU asked him.
1) What in your opinion i would be doing as town? I mean exactly how i would act towards you as town in your opinion? 2) Why is it a stupid question and why is aggressiveness a scumtell, especially for me?
Ok everything essentially just became a food fight from my perspective.
At first I was thinking Rayne and Gumshoe scum, because seeing the layout concerns Rayne pointed out coupled with gumeshoe's post implying what I am doing is usually seen as scummy in reply to him, it looked like something to be able to lynch LHF with no recompense.
Then, after they talk a bit, I see Rayne going after gumshoe for said post and I'm like "well they certainly aren't scum together" and then Yamato77 wildly says between them he would go after Rayne!
Then gumshoe explains himself to Rayne and it makes sense- my how my reads fly -_-
This makes me ask, what are people's thoughts about hopeless and I rng'ing Kush? He has said nothing, and we are what, a couple hours into the game? I mean seriously, are we wrong/scummy or vote with us? Or what in between?
On January 04 2014 08:22 yamato77 wrote: It was my way of shifting the discussion to a more appropriate target for consideration.
Actually you didnt,when rayn attacked me HE was the one who opened up the rayn/gum lynch potential, your just limiting us to that one option under the guise of "shifting" discussion. This could easily be you fixing up a certain mislynch scenario, in which you lean on killing the more experienced player but will happily lynch the lesser one. You should tread more carefully if your scum yamato, wayward drones can be sniped very fast indeed in this setup.
##Vote yamato
What do you think of Cheescake still being silly when the game has comfortably passed the cheese stage?
Okay let's get this shit fully going on. Here's something to consider. I am going to die on N1 or N2 at last. If i do not i have somehow failed in this game and played under my standards.
I really do want to lynch mafia on D1, therefore i won't allow people i work well with to discredit me in case they are scum. I am a Parity Cop. My role is useless, for me, as i said before. What i want to is people (especially yamato and thrawn who i know to be strong and work well with if they are town) to work with me without a doubt in their mind about my alignment.
On January 04 2014 08:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay let's get this shit fully going on. Here's something to consider. I am going to die on N1 or N2 at last. If i do not i have somehow failed in this game and played under my standards.
I really do want to lynch mafia on D1, therefore i won't allow people i work well with to discredit me in case they are scum. I am a Parity Cop. My role is useless, for me, as i said before. What i want to is people (especially yamato and thrawn who i know to be strong and work well with if they are town) to work with me without a doubt in their mind about my alignment.
Now let's lynch mafia shall we?
K look there are huge problems with this, I could actually totes lynch you with Yamato on this alone.
If you are actually blue you just gave up that power's usefulness and if you are scum, the real cop can't counterclaim you without outing himself to you.
Most will know this and therefore that it is essentially WIFOM, also I think YOU know better enough to know all that.
Anyone counter claim? I think the worth of a parity cop in this setup is dubios at best so outing one of 3 cylons right away cylon is def worth a reveal.
Rayn, I think your choice to reveal based off your opinion of your own play was dumb / : theres probs a doc and yet you've cheated us of any info we might get from your role (provided theres an rb) but if theres no counterclaim theres nothing to be done. Even though its possible for their to be no parity cop at all : P
On January 04 2014 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you do want to policy lynch me for claiming without thinking about my alignment?
I'll say this now, I dont think you were under enough pressure as scum to gamble on a hail marry claim(and its likely youd be lynched in case of a counterclaim anyways) but I feel youve made a mistake as town ) :
On January 04 2014 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you do want to policy lynch me for claiming without thinking about my alignment?
This wouldn't be a policy lynch, because that statement is so scummy- coupled with gumshoe asking the cop to counterclaim?!?!? I'm back to thinking you are scum together!
On January 04 2014 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you do want to policy lynch me for claiming without thinking about my alignment?
I'll say this now, I dont think you were under enough pressure as scum to gamble on a hail marry claim(and its likely youd be lynched in case of a counterclaim anyways) but I feel youve made a mistake as town ) :
If i do not lynch mafia on D1 then i have definitely made a mistake but in my opinion this gives me much higher chances of lynching scum. I don't have to worry about people worrying about me. As i said me being parity cop is same as me being vanilla. I get a first scum check at best on D3. In my opinion at that point of the game there should be 2 mafia dead already. If there is not i am doing something wrong. If i am alive on D3 i am doing something wrong. Therefore me being a parity cop has no upsides besides the fact that if i claim it people can actually trust me and trust my thoughts to have a townie agenda without thinking about the possible scum motivations behind them.
On January 04 2014 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you do want to policy lynch me for claiming without thinking about my alignment?
This wouldn't be a policy lynch, because that statement is so scummy- coupled with gumshoe asking the cop to counterclaim?!?!? I'm back to thinking you are scum together!
On January 04 2014 08:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay let's get this shit fully going on. Here's something to consider. I am going to die on N1 or N2 at last. If i do not i have somehow failed in this game and played under my standards.
I really do want to lynch mafia on D1, therefore i won't allow people i work well with to discredit me in case they are scum. I am a Parity Cop. My role is useless, for me, as i said before. What i want to is people (especially yamato and thrawn who i know to be strong and work well with if they are town) to work with me without a doubt in their mind about my alignment.
Now let's lynch mafia shall we?
K look there are huge problems with this, I could actually totes lynch you with Yamato on this alone.
If you are actually blue you just gave up that power's usefulness and if you are scum, the real cop can't counterclaim you without outing himself to you.
Most will know this and therefore that it is essentially WIFOM, also I think YOU know better enough to know all that.
Especially the bolded part. You do not explain why i am scum for claiming. You jsut say you want to lynch me for my claim. You never explain why my calim makes sense from a scum perspective.
Either elaborate on why am i scum or drop it. Right now.
On January 04 2014 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you do want to policy lynch me for claiming without thinking about my alignment?
I'll say this now, I dont think you were under enough pressure as scum to gamble on a hail marry claim(and its likely youd be lynched in case of a counterclaim anyways) but I feel youve made a mistake as town ) :
If i do not lynch mafia on D1 then i have definitely made a mistake but in my opinion this gives me much higher chances of lynching scum. I don't have to worry about people worrying about me. As i said me being parity cop is same as me being vanilla. I get a first scum check at best on D3. In my opinion at that point of the game there should be 2 mafia dead already. If there is not i am doing something wrong. If i am alive on D3 i am doing something wrong. Therefore me being a parity cop has no upsides besides the fact that if i claim it people can actually trust me and trust my thoughts to have a townie agenda without thinking about the possible scum motivations behind them.
Dude.
I mean yes I could see how the role is pretty useless then and probably not worth scum's time to fish out. But if you are scum? You just gave yourself the key to ultimate Svengali play, and a free day worth of survival if not more assuming you are believed!
It doesn't accomplish the trust you need man, it makes stuff worse.
But really, it would be super ballsy scum play. Counterclaiming would decrease chances of a mislynch to 50%!
On January 04 2014 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you do want to policy lynch me for claiming without thinking about my alignment?
This wouldn't be a policy lynch, because that statement is so scummy- coupled with gumshoe asking the cop to counterclaim?!?!? I'm back to thinking you are scum together!
On January 04 2014 08:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay let's get this shit fully going on. Here's something to consider. I am going to die on N1 or N2 at last. If i do not i have somehow failed in this game and played under my standards.
I really do want to lynch mafia on D1, therefore i won't allow people i work well with to discredit me in case they are scum. I am a Parity Cop. My role is useless, for me, as i said before. What i want to is people (especially yamato and thrawn who i know to be strong and work well with if they are town) to work with me without a doubt in their mind about my alignment.
Now let's lynch mafia shall we?
K look there are huge problems with this, I could actually totes lynch you with Yamato on this alone.
If you are actually blue you just gave up that power's usefulness and if you are scum, the real cop can't counterclaim you without outing himself to you.
Most will know this and therefore that it is essentially WIFOM, also I think YOU know better enough to know all that.
Especially the bolded part. You do not explain why i am scum for claiming. You jsut say you want to lynch me for my claim. You never explain why my calim makes sense from a scum perspective.
Either elaborate on why am i scum or drop it. Right now.
Again if you are scum this statement completely removes pressure from you, this is absolutely why it is WIFOM, unless cop decides to counterclaim- if you are town then I assume you are frustrated with my not being convinced by this claim -_-
You have now made 4 posts about my claim where you say "he could be town or he could be scum". Which is it? If you don't know do something else. Being wishy-washy about it does not get you anywhere.
On January 04 2014 09:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: One more post about discussing this without explaining why i am scum and i am policy lynching you Slam.
yeah, this is why I'm lynching you. You are refusing to see what I'm saying. You are scum because you are 1: Blue Hunting 2: Fakeclaiming 3: bullying anyone who opposes you and using it as grounds to mislynch
On January 04 2014 09:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: You have now made 4 posts about my claim where you say "he could be town or he could be scum". Which is it? If you don't know do something else. Being wishy-washy about it does not get you anywhere.
On January 04 2014 09:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so Slam is town but just very stupid.
Nice discredit explain? How on earth I what you are doing any better than the biggest WIFOM bomb I have ever seen plus a ton of Svengali? Why on earth should town believe your claim even if the parity cop role is so useless? I will even answer that- because it wouldn't be worth the risk to make suh a fakeclaim as scum. But the problem with that is it is like combining a bus with blue hunting, and you can count on town arriving at that same conclusion anyway!
On January 04 2014 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you do want to policy lynch me for claiming without thinking about my alignment?
I'll say this now, I dont think you were under enough pressure as scum to gamble on a hail marry claim(and its likely youd be lynched in case of a counterclaim anyways) but I feel youve made a mistake as town ) :
If i do not lynch mafia on D1 then i have definitely made a mistake but in my opinion this gives me much higher chances of lynching scum. I don't have to worry about people worrying about me. As i said me being parity cop is same as me being vanilla. I get a first scum check at best on D3. In my opinion at that point of the game there should be 2 mafia dead already. If there is not i am doing something wrong. If i am alive on D3 i am doing something wrong. Therefore me being a parity cop has no upsides besides the fact that if i claim it people can actually trust me and trust my thoughts to have a townie agenda without thinking about the possible scum motivations behind them.
If your plan was to reveal from so early on, why did you wait until you came under fire to reveal? You used your role like a mothership recall after a hatchery snipe XD that doesnt strike me as transparent or townie, also your plan doesnt allow much for error / : what if we lynch one scum and one townie( Which very well may have happened considering you were just trying to lynch me) then that parity cop comes pretty damm in handy. But whateves, like I said not much to do if theres no other claim, but I still find your play rather wasteful, and oddly enough equal parts cynical and optimistic.
On January 04 2014 09:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so Slam is town but just very stupid.
Nice discredit explain? How on earth I what you are doing any better than the biggest WIFOM bomb I have ever seen plus a ton of Svengali? Why on earth should town believe your claim even if the parity cop role is so useless? I will even answer that- because it wouldn't be worth the risk to make suh a fakeclaim as scum. But the problem with that is it is like combining a bus with blue hunting, and you can count on town arriving at that same conclusion anyway!
WIFOM is the greatest scum strategy IMO.
I honestly don't give a shit because you have obviously no idea about what i would or would not do as mafia and why.
On January 04 2014 09:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe do you think i feel pressured regardless of what anyone says about me 2h into the game as mafia?
You didn't announce your role until after people started questioning you, so obviously it was a response to pressure. Are you scum? No, thats not at all likely unless a counter claim comes so your right, no point talking bout it.
Im heading to a friends now, looking forward to peoples reactions when I come back, later all.
On January 04 2014 09:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe do you think i feel pressured regardless of what anyone says about me 2h into the game as mafia?
You didn't announce your role until after people started questioning you, so obviously it was a response to pressure. Are you scum? No, thats not at all likely unless a counter claim comes so your right, no point talking bout it.
Im heading to a friends now, looking forward to peoples reactions when I come back, later all.
That does not answer my question at all. And no, i was not under pressure, yamato called me possibly mafia for bullshit reasoning - something you yourself agreed with.
On January 04 2014 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure gumshoe is mafia. Nothing he says is making sense atm.
no, but you did just claim cop for questionable reasons.
And that has to do with anything how? Are you discrediting me or are you calling me scum or are you agreeing with me? What exactly are you saying here?
On January 04 2014 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure gumshoe is mafia. Nothing he says is making sense atm.
no, but you did just claim cop for questionable reasons.
And that has to do with anything how? Are you discrediting me or are you calling me scum or are you agreeing with me? What exactly are you saying here?
im saying gumshoe not making sense could be because hes confused, not necessarily mafia. You're totes town
So in your opinion misrepresenting my meta based on voice games or some i don't even know what games and intentionally misrepresenting my claim under the "you were under pressure therefore you had to claim if you are scum" category or at least implying so could be because he is "counfused"? Interesting interpretation.
On January 04 2014 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure gumshoe is mafia. Nothing he says is making sense atm.
no, but you did just claim cop for questionable reasons.
Also if you think i am totes town what's the point of the bolded part of this post? You are commenting on my accusation against gumshoe, why do you need to bring my claim into it? It has nothing to do with my accusation.
i thought that was a catalyst for gumshoe making less than desired amounts of sense. If you think he's misrepresented you from meta of voice or other games, thats a different thing to consider.
On January 04 2014 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you do want to policy lynch me for claiming without thinking about my alignment?
I'll say this now, I dont think you were under enough pressure as scum to gamble on a hail marry claim(and its likely youd be lynched in case of a counterclaim anyways) but I feel youve made a mistake as town ) :
If i do not lynch mafia on D1 then i have definitely made a mistake but in my opinion this gives me much higher chances of lynching scum. I don't have to worry about people worrying about me. As i said me being parity cop is same as me being vanilla. I get a first scum check at best on D3. In my opinion at that point of the game there should be 2 mafia dead already. If there is not i am doing something wrong. If i am alive on D3 i am doing something wrong. Therefore me being a parity cop has no upsides besides the fact that if i claim it people can actually trust me and trust my thoughts to have a townie agenda without thinking about the possible scum motivations behind them.
If your plan was to reveal from so early on, why did you wait until you came under fire to reveal? You used your role like a mothership recall after a hatchery snipe XD that doesnt strike me as transparent or townie, also your plan doesnt allow much for error / : what if we lynch one scum and one townie( Which very well may have happened considering you were just trying to lynch me) then that parity cop comes pretty damm in handy. But whateves, like I said not much to do if theres no other claim, but I still find your play rather wasteful, and oddly enough equal parts cynical and optimistic.
On January 04 2014 09:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe do you think i feel pressured regardless of what anyone says about me 2h into the game as mafia?
You didn't announce your role until after people started questioning you, so obviously it was a response to pressure. Are you scum? No, thats not at all likely unless a counter claim comes so your right, no point talking bout it.
Im heading to a friends now, looking forward to peoples reactions when I come back, later all.
This makes absolutely no sense because he states here my mafia motivation for claiming would be because i was under pressure. That can't possibly be true in his opinion because the only one who at that point had accused me of anything was yamato. gumshoe himself agreed with me and turned against yamato for his pressure on me. There is no way gumshoe should be thinking i feel pressured about yamato's accusation because in the first place he himself thinks the accusation is bullshit.
You know what I hate? Coming back from a family vacation and finding 112 posts waiting for me.
Anyways, all I found so far is that based on this:
On January 04 2014 08:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay let's get this shit fully going on. Here's something to consider. I am going to die on N1 or N2 at last. If i do not i have somehow failed in this game and played under my standards.
I really do want to lynch mafia on D1, therefore i won't allow people i work well with to discredit me in case they are scum. I am a Parity Cop. My role is useless, for me, as i said before. What i want to is people (especially yamato and thrawn who i know to be strong and work well with if they are town) to work with me without a doubt in their mind about my alignment.
On January 04 2014 08:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay let's get this shit fully going on. Here's something to consider. I am going to die on N1 or N2 at last. If i do not i have somehow failed in this game and played under my standards.
I really do want to lynch mafia on D1, therefore i won't allow people i work well with to discredit me in case they are scum. I am a Parity Cop. My role is useless, for me, as i said before. What i want to is people (especially yamato and thrawn who i know to be strong and work well with if they are town) to work with me without a doubt in their mind about my alignment.
Now let's lynch mafia shall we?
K look there are huge problems with this, I could actually totes lynch you with Yamato on this alone.
If you are actually blue you just gave up that power's usefulness and if you are scum, the real cop can't counterclaim you without outing himself to you.
Most will know this and therefore that it is essentially WIFOM, also I think YOU know better enough to know all that.
On January 04 2014 08:50 gumshoe wrote: Anyone counter claim? I think the worth of a parity cop in this setup is dubios at best so outing one of 3 cylons right away cylon is def worth a reveal.
Rayn, I think your choice to reveal based off your opinion of your own play was dumb / : theres probs a doc and yet you've cheated us of any info we might get from your role (provided theres an rb) but if theres no counterclaim theres nothing to be done. Even though its possible for their to be no parity cop at all : P
If he does not think i am mafia i have no reason to lie about why i claimed in the first place, which i stated was not because of pressure. Either way he is bullshitting.
On January 04 2014 10:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he does not think i am mafia i have no reason to lie about why i claimed in the first place, which i stated was not because of pressure. Either way he is bullshitting.
I'll be honest, I didnt read very closely the first time around. gumshoe is a good lynch. but, BETTER THAN RNG? I DUNNO.
On January 04 2014 09:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe do you think i feel pressured regardless of what anyone says about me 2h into the game as mafia?
You didn't announce your role until after people started questioning you, so obviously it was a response to pressure. Are you scum? No, thats not at all likely unless a counter claim comes so your right, no point talking bout it.
Im heading to a friends now, looking forward to peoples reactions when I come back, later all.
In case gumshoe thinks i am mafia: This makes absolutely no sense because he states here my mafia motivation for claiming would be because i was under pressure. That can't possibly be true in his opinion because the only one who at that point had accused me of anything was yamato. gumshoe himself agreed with me and turned against yamato for his pressure on me. There is no way gumshoe should be thinking i feel pressured about yamato's accusation because in the first place he himself thinks the accusation is bullshit. In case gumshoe thinks i am town: If he does not think i am mafia i have no reason to lie about why i claimed in the first place, which i stated was not because of pressure.
In either scenario gumshoe's reasoning makes no sense at all and therefore he is lying.
On January 04 2014 10:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Lol dat reveal. Slam and rayn are town. Idk about gumshoe still have to read what went on with him and rayn.
sent maf dat quoting the cop claim and nothing else, discrediting both rayn and gumshoe in the process.
I just got here and it's the only thing I'm capable of understanding.
On January 04 2014 09:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe do you think i feel pressured regardless of what anyone says about me 2h into the game as mafia?
You didn't announce your role until after people started questioning you, so obviously it was a response to pressure. Are you scum? No, thats not at all likely unless a counter claim comes so your right, no point talking bout it.
Im heading to a friends now, looking forward to peoples reactions when I come back, later all.
On January 04 2014 07:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe if you were mafia what would you be talking with your scumbuddies in the scum QT atm?
Alakaslam is the focus of this game right now, hes made the only real proposition, if hes town then scum is discussing if hes serious about the whole lurker thing or if hes baiting scum. Theyre wondering how long until they can back him or if they should jump on him for making "asinine" discussion. If hes scum they're wondering how town will react to his conversation starter and planning for each possible response. They may also be planning a bus.
where it seems like gumshoe's using way too many words to talk about very early game events that don't deserve half the talk gum devotes to them. I think that any answer to rayn's question that isn't something along the lines of "idk dude" is a scum answer, especially as the size of the response increases.
On January 04 2014 07:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Vote: gumshoe
And why do you think im scum? Your not a very impulsive player so I assume you have some thing to back up your convictions.
I also want to know where do you base this statement of yours on?
Voice and games ive read of you, when your town your a bit slower to action and more patient with the game because you recognize that fast lynches can easily go in favour of scum. The only times I've seen you play rashly is when your scum and attempting to secure a fast hammer (voice) or using your rep to disregard everything townie players say (witchcraft). The reason I'm not sure if your scum this game is because I have known you to make fake cases/claims to find actual scum, your eagerness to start a train might be you looking for fast jumpers.
it's the same issue as before, his posts seem too far thought out especially at this early stage in the game. There's too much information and most of the information doesn't really say anything.
I have some other stuff to say about Gumshoe and about rayn's claim but for now I'm gonna wait till the thread has developed a bit.
Can you tell me why you want to lynch both rayn and gumshoe? I want to know your reasons for each individually and I want to know if you have reason to think they are scummates.
Sent makes no sense right now. He gets scum vibes from both rayn and gumshoe, and is voting gumshoe cus he asked for a counterclaim. mind you this wagon is led by rayn who he thinks is scummy.
Can you tell me why you want to lynch both rayn and gumshoe? I want to know your reasons for each individually and I want to know if you have reason to think they are scummates.
rayn for claiming (using Alakaslam's argument for my own read), and gumshoe for coming out, right after that, and asking for a counterclaim. If there's a real cop, gumshoe's asking him to show himself (and label himself for targeting). Pretty scummy play. I think both of them are red, but gumshoe is redder.
On January 04 2014 10:52 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Sent makes no sense right now. He gets scum vibes from both rayn and gumshoe, and is voting gumshoe cus he asked for a counterclaim. mind you this wagon is led by rayn who he thinks is scummy.
Alakaslam had very good posts at the beginning of the game and was promoting discussion. It also felt genuine and not forced. His stance on me i think is quite dumb and for bad reasons but i don't see him attacking me with such an argument if he was scum.
Hopeless is being reckless. Regardless of gumshoe's alignment townies are more likely to be eager to jump on lynches early on in the game where there is a majority lynch. Hopeless had a randomlynch for himelsf to hide behind if he didn't want to gather attention for hopping on to gumshoe wagon. I think it's more likely as mafia he would stay more neutral and promote more discussion before switching his vote onto gumshoe with literally no reasons given.
a counterclaim nets us 1 mafia guarenteed, not a scummy play. Cant let a fakeclaim go un cc'd anyway.
sent there are reasons gum looks bad and thats not one of them. i domt see how rayn is mafia fakeclaiming cop without a cc, and i hv no reason to distrust in that. fuck parity cop, esp with potential gf
Can you tell me why you want to lynch both rayn and gumshoe? I want to know your reasons for each individually and I want to know if you have reason to think they are scummates.
rayn for claiming (using Alakaslam's argument for my own read), and gumshoe for coming out, right after that, and asking for a counterclaim. If there's a real cop, gumshoe's asking him to show himself (and label himself for targeting). Pretty scummy play. I think both of them are red, but gumshoe is redder.
So you think the scum is letting two of their own fish for blue claims? Also I want you to go back and read gum's first post after rayn's claim. Apart from his asking for counterclaims how does the stuff gum says about rayn's claim affect your read on gumshoe?
On January 04 2014 11:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: omggg its so scummy rayn. He risked hammer cus he skimmed the thread and jumped on the first thing he could blahh
It might also be bad town play or him not expressing himself clearly. I am more worried about yamato who did defend gumshoe when he needed no defending at all.
On January 04 2014 10:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hopeless is being reckless. Regardless of gumshoe's alignment townies are more likely to be eager to jump on lynches early on in the game where there is a majority lynch. Hopeless had a randomlynch for himelsf to hide behind if he didn't want to gather attention for hopping on to gumshoe wagon. I think it's more likely as mafia he would stay more neutral and promote more discussion before switching his vote onto gumshoe with literally no reasons given.
I don't get you here. You say hopeless is setting himself up to potentially hide behind a random lynch and you think that is reckless in a townie way?
On January 04 2014 10:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hopeless is being reckless. Regardless of gumshoe's alignment townies are more likely to be eager to jump on lynches early on in the game where there is a majority lynch. Hopeless had a randomlynch for himelsf to hide behind if he didn't want to gather attention for hopping on to gumshoe wagon. I think it's more likely as mafia he would stay more neutral and promote more discussion before switching his vote onto gumshoe with literally no reasons given.
I don't get you here. You say hopeless is setting himself up to potentially hide behind a random lynch and you think that is reckless in a townie way?
I am saying that's what he could have done instead of putting himself possibly in a spotlight by jumping on to gumshoe.
On January 04 2014 10:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: a counterclaim nets us 1 mafia guarenteed, not a scummy play. Cant let a fakeclaim go un cc'd anyway.
sent there are reasons gum looks bad and thats not one of them. i domt see how rayn is mafia fakeclaiming cop without a cc, and i hv no reason to distrust in that. fuck parity cop, esp with potential gf
On January 04 2014 11:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: thrawn why would i claim parity cop as mafia instead of just.. you know, not claiming?
These, plus looking at setup as scum would see it (losing one scum today versus a mislynch makes the game a lot harder for them) make me think if there is a cop, should counter claim, and Rayne probably confirmed town versus otherwise.
Another reason I think so now is I was literally going through why I thought an early claim like that is so bad as either alignment that coming from Rayne it just reeks of scum, and he thought I was being wishy-washy and almost like he couldn't conceive how it was scummy- which I took as even scummier, but a look back, as town he would say the same stuff- you do something SPECIFICALLY to get people to work with you and first thing, this guy comes up and calls it WIFOM over and over and scummy, and you know in the setup scum don't do that etc. etc.
thrawn why did you vote for gumshoe in the first place if you didn't want to lynch him yet? Also as soon as someone else than me posted you unvoted. You put gumshoe on L-1 and when people (me) started actually saying "let's hammer" you retracted from your vote.
What was the point of your vote in the first place?
I didn't want to hammer yet but I don't mind a super early game L-1, it's a good way to get things going. Once people started acting like they seriously wanted to hammer immediately I chickened out.
On January 04 2014 11:34 thrawn2112 wrote: I didn't want to hammer yet but I don't mind a super early game L-1, it's a good way to get things going. Once people started acting like they seriously wanted to hammer immediately I chickened out.
What's the point of putting someone into L-1 if you are not intending on letting him being hammered?
On January 04 2014 11:34 thrawn2112 wrote: I didn't want to hammer yet but I don't mind a super early game L-1, it's a good way to get things going. Once people started acting like they seriously wanted to hammer immediately I chickened out.
What's the point of putting someone into L-1 if you are not intending on letting him being hammered?
read the exact post you just quoted, the answer's in there
You are kinda saying "i wanted to show i am suspicious of gumshoe by voting for him but i did not want to get him lynched yet". It makes no sense because in instant majority games you don't put someone into L-1 if you are not confident in them being hammered. The vote makes no sense in the first place because you give someone the hammer and at the same time you are (what ypou are saying now) saying "here, but please, don't hammer". It makes literally no sense.
Also elaborate more on your statement about my WC fakeclaim comparsion to this game. Why did you do it, compare two entirely different situations? And what does what i did in Witchcraft have to do with my claim in this game? If i have fakeclaimed as scum at some game it does not give me a motivation to fakeclaim in this game. What's my mafia motivation in fakeclaiming parity cop in this game? You must think there is some because you are entertaining an idea i could be mafia, so please share.
Other than gumshoe's post on yamato I don't like much of his other stuff. He's fluffing his posts to appear bigger than whatever he's contributing. His vote-on-yamato-post included.
before voted = "didn't think someone would actually hammer gum this early, and an L-1 can help get game going"
after voted = "oh wow people are actually considering a hammer I better unvote"
The reasons the claims are similar is because now, as in WC, I couldn't think of good reasons why scum rayn would do it. And I'm sorry but I'm not going to elaborate on your claim any further, I've made it clear that I'm waiting for the thread to progress a bit first.
Also you think there could be a mafia motivation behind me claiming, but you won't elaborate on why. All you have to say is "sayn has fakecalimed as scum before, therefore he could be fakeclaiming now". That's really fishy thrawn. Why are you refusing to give your reasoning?
On January 04 2014 12:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also you think there could be a mafia motivation behind me claiming, but you won't elaborate on why. All you have to say is "sayn has fakecalimed as scum before, therefore he could be fakeclaiming now". That's really fishy thrawn. Why are you refusing to give your reasoning?
Here's the deal, I'm done talking about your claim for right now, so make what you will of it. Yes, I am straight up refusing to talk to you about this and you're just gonna have to deal with it.
On January 04 2014 12:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: This is a pointless convo imo.
Im actually liking gum/yam +1 maf
Ok. Why Yam?
For now I'm voting Gumshoe until something comes up. Rayne saying he wanted to hear more from UoN and discussing with Thrawn has given me some pause but I'm not hammering so see vote thread.
On January 04 2014 12:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: This is a pointless convo imo.
Im actually liking gum/yam +1 maf
Ok. Why Yam?
For now I'm voting Gumshoe until something comes up. Rayne saying he wanted to hear more from UoN and discussing with Thrawn has given me some pause but I'm not hammering so see vote thread.
I think gumshoe is scum for what i have said in thread.
I think thrawn is scum for not giving reasons for his "rayn might be scum" read. It makes no sense because he is unwilling to clarify his thought process behind his read. Thinking i could be fakeclaiming is not alignment indicative. Not giving reasons for "why" is. I don't think thrawn has any reasons for thinking i could be fakeclaiming and is using "he did that in another game" as a reasoning, which is not legit. That is not a reason why i would do it this game. Also his voting / unvoting gumshoe is fishy, because it makes no sense. He gives town the hammer but at the same time says "do not hammer". That's not how voting works. You vote for kill mafia, if you are not confident enough about your vote yet, you don't vote.
Hammer gumshoe - vig thrawn. Profit for D2! Good night. <3
I agree yam is not his usual awesome gosu townie self, so im scummy on him.
Im sure rayn and slam are town. Idk about sent, didnt like his entrance it was scummy but hes slowed down and had some ok posts. Hopeless hasnt done much but its more thsn when hes maf.
And gum has had some scummy stuff like piggy backing off yamato bringing up my opener and never following it up.kush and coag... null obv.
So that leaves in order from scum to town
gum yam kush / coag / sent hopless slam rayn me
Idk where thrawn lies in this yet. Yay lists froom phone
As the metagame has evolved, the various one base all-ins and timings available to Protoss have greatly diminished in their effectiveness against Zerg players because of a combination of map changes, better scouting skills, and general increase in the skill level of the players. In modern play, Protoss players open with economical builds focused on defending a fast expansion with either a Forge and cannon(s) or basic Gateway units.
Outside of aggressive early Pool openings, Zerg one base play is also weak and easily scoutable, so standard play has always involved some fast expand or, in some situations, a double expand opening. The trend in modern play is to delay gas mining for as long as possible, allowing Zerg to maximize their mineral income and thus Drone count, but Speedling openings that focus on obtaining map control early on in the game, aggressive plays, or fast tech are also viable.
thrawn2112, AFK in the Mineral Line, is dead!
Welcome to Day 2. This Day ends instantly when a majority is reached to lynch. With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Make sure to vote in the voting thread.
Drone Stack (1-shot Vigilante): Defend the hatchery! Marines in the base! Don't let the bunker get up! 1a1a1a1a1a1a-- At night, you can choose to fire your single bullet with butterfly drone wings. Your target will be hit with 1 kp. If you are RBed, you get your bullet back. If your target is protected by a JK or a Doctor, you do not get your bullet back. Find and defeat the mismicroed idle drones.
Umm...we almost solved the game. dont claim yet, i wanna discuss a bit but I think a mass claim is in order.
On January 05 2014 04:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Why shouldn't the vig claim? If they blew their shot, they're essentially a VT now, right?
They probably should but I'd rather they/we all decide its a good idea that will have a definite benefit, instead of giving scum a place to hide or cause confusion.
makes more sense and is playing better than anyone in the game.
Rayn - cop claim (probably town)
hard to see a world where scum rayn is this active and in the spotlight, but not impossible. Now that we assume there is a vig and have a vet claim, I will have to run through the possibilities.
CC - townish
protown, but I have some concerns (formerly stated), now vet claims, will have to scrutinize
i mean aside from rayn saying to do it, he actually thought it was a good idea in and of itself. p.s. I would have totally roleblocked sent if i was scum huehue
On January 05 2014 04:22 Hopeless1der wrote: Oh, complete conspiracy theory, mafia shot their own to be able to claim medic and vig for themselves.
this is still a possibility, by the way.
I'll be back later (in about 8 hours). DON'T LYNCH ANYONE WHILE I AM GONE. After my shift today, I am off for two days and can totally devote the time to solving this game for certain.
Thank you Sentinel for listening to me on thrawn (or good job or whatever your reasoning was ^^). Apologies guys for D1 lynch, i was really bad and that was bad from me.
I'll shut up for some time so people can actually talk and we don't end up with a clusterfuck like D1 lynch. I was roleblocked.
On January 05 2014 05:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Thank you Sentinel for listening to me on thrawn (or good job or whatever your reasoning was ^^). Apologies guys for D1 lynch, i was really bad and that was bad from me.
I'll shut up for some time so people can actually talk and we don't end up with a clusterfuck like D1 lynch. I was roleblocked.
On January 04 2014 07:30 Blazinghand wrote: Some Rule Clarifications: You will never be informed of an RB, regardless of your role/alignment. The only evidence will be a night action not working. A cop or Pcop gets told if their ability doesn't work, even on the first night for a pcop. A vigi gets refunded the bullet if RBed, but otherwise gets no refund. A Veteran, Doctor, or JK receives no PM informing them of RBs. Mafia RB takes place before town JK's RB.
Scum KP is factional.
Doctors and JKs, and people protected by them, are not informed of night hits / saves. A Vet, however, is informed.
On January 04 2014 11:31 kushm4sta wrote: catching up now
On January 05 2014 12:01 kushm4sta wrote: FINALLY I GET TO PLAY. Unfortunately the game is already near solved. Kind of a disappointment but w/e. I'll read some filters tonight.
2) alakaslam (filter) ?
4) Hopeless1der (filter) ?
5) Raynpelikoneet (filter) ?
6) coagulation (filter) ?
7) [UoN]Sentinel (filter) confirmed town
8) Yamato77 (filter) ?
10) Mr. Cheesecake (filter) confirmed town
On D1 you said you were catching up. Why did you end up not catching up then?
alakaslam: Well his early game is way more try hard than the towngame I just played with him recently. Then his activity falls off, which is a pretty good scumtell in itself usually, especially when there is no excuse to explain it. Overall his activity points fits with what I perceive his scumgame to look like. Then there is this post:
On January 04 2014 09:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: One more post about discussing this without explaining why i am scum and i am policy lynching you Slam.
yeah, this is why I'm lynching you. You are refusing to see what I'm saying. You are scum because you are 1: Blue Hunting 2: Fakeclaiming 3: bullying anyone who opposes you and using it as grounds to mislynch
like wut...blue hunting?! @Alaka I want to know how rayne was blue hunting. Also I have no idea why you would jump to the conclusion that rayne was fakeclaiming, since he gave a decent explanation for why he claimed and claiming as scum would be pretty suicidal. Scummers love to accuse townies of blue hunting. I feel like i see it all the time. conclusion: SCUM
~~~~~~
hopeless His position on gumshoe throughout d1 makes no sense. First he soft defends him.
On January 04 2014 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure gumshoe is mafia. Nothing he says is making sense atm.
no, but you did just claim cop for questionable reasons.
And that has to do with anything how? Are you discrediting me or are you calling me scum or are you agreeing with me? What exactly are you saying here?
im saying gumshoe not making sense could be because hes confused, not necessarily mafia. You're totes town
On January 04 2014 10:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he does not think i am mafia i have no reason to lie about why i claimed in the first place, which i stated was not because of pressure. Either way he is bullshitting.
I'll be honest, I didnt read very closely the first time around. gumshoe is a good lynch. but, BETTER THAN RNG? I DUNNO.
Suddenly Gumshoe is a good lynch for no reason other than he didn't read before. I would expect a townie hopeless to have like a sentence explaining what aspect of the argument convinced him.
Otherwise there has been a total lack of content from hopeless. He's done some mechanics posts and some troll posts, but his scumhunting is practically non existent. I remember his towngame as having a similar length filter but being more focused on logical scumhunting.
Conclusion: SCUM
coag There is no amount of effort shown this game, which leans scummy to me. It seems like in his town games, he makes an effort to show you he is town. He doesn't do that at all here.
On January 04 2014 10:53 Coagulation wrote: guis dont ignore me. say my name.
He loves to do this too scummy to be scum shit as scum. Conclusion: SCUM
~~~~~~~~
yamato town. just town. His early suspicion on thrawn doesn't look like a bus. Plus process of elimination (I already have one too many scummers lol)
~~~~~
So one of my scumreads is town. I'm guessing it's either hopeless or coag, because both are pretty unreadable.
On January 05 2014 12:01 kushm4sta wrote: FINALLY I GET TO PLAY. Unfortunately the game is already near solved. Kind of a disappointment but w/e. I'll read some filters tonight.
2) alakaslam (filter) ?
4) Hopeless1der (filter) ?
5) Raynpelikoneet (filter) ?
6) coagulation (filter) ?
7) [UoN]Sentinel (filter) confirmed town
8) Yamato77 (filter) ?
10) Mr. Cheesecake (filter) confirmed town
On D1 you said you were catching up. Why did you end up not catching up then?
oh i did catch up. by the time i got done you noobs already hammered gumshoe. kind of pisses me off rayne that you even ask this question because i was pretty mad at you. I wanted to really get into this game and you made that impossible for me by doing the most anti town thing ever. let's just say im glad we couldn't talk at night or i would have been modkilled the things i wanted to say to you <3
yamato town. just town. His early suspicion on thrawn doesn't look like a bus. Plus process of elimination (I already have one too many scummers lol)
kush explain this read, preferrably with quotes.
yeah i can't find it now that I look for iit. Someone came out hard against thrawn d1, I remember. Must have been someone else though. im demoting him to null.
This list is actually so bad. First the slam thing. Just wrong. All he has done is appeared to be trying hard without actually doing anything. CC - townish??? hes confirmed town due to being a vet... sent - red??? how the fuck is the vet red? kush - kush. not really since when he wrote that literally all i had posted so far was "catching up"
On January 05 2014 05:09 yamato77 wrote: Slam - town
makes more sense and is playing better than anyone in the game.
Rayn - cop claim (probably town)
hard to see a world where scum rayn is this active and in the spotlight, but not impossible. Now that we assume there is a vig and have a vet claim, I will have to run through the possibilities.
CC - townish
protown, but I have some concerns (formerly stated), now vet claims, will have to scrutinize
thrawn - red
voting, low activity, typical scum thrawn (skill!) ish
hammer on gumshoe, called me out for hilariously bad reasons, but is often weird to me
coag - null
? hopeless - red
look at filter, lynch with fire (does not change much)
On January 04 2014 12:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also you think there could be a mafia motivation behind me claiming, but you won't elaborate on why. All you have to say is "sayn has fakecalimed as scum before, therefore he could be fakeclaiming now". That's really fishy thrawn. Why are you refusing to give your reasoning?
Here's the deal, I'm done talking about your claim for right now, so make what you will of it. Yes, I am straight up refusing to talk to you about this and you're just gonna have to deal with it.
so this exchange makes rayn look pretty solid town imo
[UoN]Sentinel is vig obv town
Yamato is playing piss poor and im leaning scum on him. Hes using pretty shit logic like
On January 05 2014 05:33 yamato77 wrote: You would not lynch me before coag or kush in a game like this, don't be silly.
alakaslam has been lurker hunting the entire game and thats a red flag. scum like to focus on lurker discussion a lot. gonna fos on slam. likely scum.
Kush looks town to me so far. but that aint worth shit cause hes unreadable.
Mr. Cheesecake is vet. gonna assume its legit.
Hopeless1der sorta got a scum vibe but dunno. mostly null
lol coag I'm so readable. You just haven't seen my scum game recently to know how bad it looks. but yeah coag looks pretty town and I agree with his reads. yamato should be given time, obiviously.
On January 05 2014 16:59 yamato77 wrote: No one is confirmed town for claiming anything, for starters.
did you read the game? because sent, rayn, cc are 100% confirmed and that's not even an opinion.
This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed.
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
On January 05 2014 13:18 kushm4sta wrote: So here are the unknown right now:
alakaslam: Well his early game is way more try hard than the towngame I just played with him recently. I would hope this means I am getting better somehow. Then his activity falls off, which is a pretty good scumtell in itself usually, especially when there is no excuse to explain it. this is loaded accusation. Blazinghand, I was eating dinner bro. I could ask where you were like ALL OF DAY 1... Overall his activity points fits with what I perceive his scumgame to look like. it is impossible to defend a meta argument. If you see it that way what am I supposed to do? Then there is this post:
On January 04 2014 09:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: One more post about discussing this without explaining why i am scum and i am policy lynching you Slam.
yeah, this is why I'm lynching you. You are refusing to see what I'm saying. You are scum because you are 1: Blue Hunting 2: Fakeclaiming 3: bullying anyone who opposes you and using it as grounds to mislynch
like wut...blue hunting?! Yes I thought he was trying to set up a counterclaim, hadn't thought the setup through- I don't usually do that @Alaka I want to know how rayne was blue hunting. Also I have no idea why you would jump to the conclusion that rayne was fakeclaiming, Go read that exchange again. I didn't jump to that conclusion I kept saying it was a bad move and thought his replies were scummy- an attitude I have since revoked anyway. since he gave a decent explanation for why he claimed and claiming as scum would be pretty suicidal. Yes... You have passed over my acknowledgement of those facts and his post on it. Scummers love to accuse townies of blue hunting. I feel like i see it all the time. conclusion: SCUM
~~~~~~
hopeless His position on gumshoe throughout d1 makes no sense. First he soft defends him.
On January 04 2014 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure gumshoe is mafia. Nothing he says is making sense atm.
no, but you did just claim cop for questionable reasons.
And that has to do with anything how? Are you discrediting me or are you calling me scum or are you agreeing with me? What exactly are you saying here?
im saying gumshoe not making sense could be because hes confused, not necessarily mafia. You're totes town
On January 04 2014 10:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he does not think i am mafia i have no reason to lie about why i claimed in the first place, which i stated was not because of pressure. Either way he is bullshitting.
I'll be honest, I didnt read very closely the first time around. gumshoe is a good lynch. but, BETTER THAN RNG? I DUNNO.
Suddenly Gumshoe is a good lynch for no reason other than he didn't read before. I would expect a townie hopeless to have like a sentence explaining what aspect of the argument convinced him.
Otherwise there has been a total lack of content from hopeless. This is the feedback I was looking for earlier. I know your opinion on RNG would have been biased though. He's done some mechanics posts and some troll posts, but his scumhunting is practically non existent. I remember his towngame as having a similar length filter but being more focused on logical scumhunting.
Conclusion: SCUM
coag There is no amount of effort shown this game, which leans scummy to me. It seems like in his town games, he makes an effort to show you he is town. He doesn't do that at all here.
On January 04 2014 10:53 Coagulation wrote: guis dont ignore me. say my name.
He loves to do this too scummy to be scum shit as scum. Conclusion: SCUM Coag has the power of deep SVENGALI toward me (I cannot ever form a smidgen of some kind of read on him) ~~~~~~~~
yamato town. just town. His early suspicion on thrawn doesn't look like a bus. Plus process of elimination (I already have one too many scummers lol)
~~~~~
So one of my scumreads is town. I'm guessing it's either hopeless or coag, because both are pretty unreadable.
Hello Kush. I reply to your points in bold above assuming I format right.
Now why is unreadability a good thing to you here? I usually am frowned upon for the same.
On January 05 2014 17:59 kushm4sta wrote: like he's being clear but not about finding scum
Well I have to actually find them first.
Thinking you are more right saying Coag is scummy than townie. But I can't begin to read him. I'm not going to push his lynch because I couldn't, I wouldn't be able to say why he were scummy other than "lurkish" (and now OMGUS).
On January 05 2014 17:59 kushm4sta wrote: like he's being clear but not about finding scum
Honestly, I came into the game expecting to not even understand him. It's enough for me that he's readable and that I can follow his thoughts. I'm not lynching him.
On January 05 2014 17:59 kushm4sta wrote: like he's being clear but not about finding scum
Honestly, I came into the game expecting to not even understand him. It's enough for me that he's readable and that I can follow his thoughts. I'm not lynching him.
I think readability is a choice he makes, and therefore it's a null tell.
As for finding scum, I'm going to go ahead and be a hypocrite and say Hopeless RNG is bad. "Why would he do it as scum?", you say- "he is just as likely to land on a scum buddy with that RNG, useless risk given strong reason to mislynch vs bus in this setup rite?"
And so I thought as well, my friend, and had him pretty much conftown.
But consider this:
If it is truly Random Number Generation, we can follow all his steps and come up with a different lynch. So he just calls it RNG and lands it on a townie.
If it is not truly Random Number Generation, (assuming he is scum by the way), than he deserves my as he just does epic bawss maths and lines it up on his mislynch target appropriately.
If he is town the reason is obvious: policy in a setup. Perhaps not a very good one.
I am flipping my opinion from agreement with the idea to a scum read.
On January 05 2014 17:59 kushm4sta wrote: like he's being clear but not about finding scum
Honestly, I came into the game expecting to not even understand him. It's enough for me that he's readable and that I can follow his thoughts. I'm not lynching him.
I think readability is a choice he makes, and therefore it's a null tell.
On January 04 2014 12:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also you think there could be a mafia motivation behind me claiming, but you won't elaborate on why. All you have to say is "sayn has fakecalimed as scum before, therefore he could be fakeclaiming now". That's really fishy thrawn. Why are you refusing to give your reasoning?
Here's the deal, I'm done talking about your claim for right now, so make what you will of it. Yes, I am straight up refusing to talk to you about this and you're just gonna have to deal with it.
so this exchange makes rayn look pretty solid town imo
[UoN]Sentinel is vig obv town
Yamato is playing piss poor and im leaning scum on him. Hes using pretty shit logic like
On January 05 2014 18:49 Hopeless1der wrote: Yamato didnt consider that scum might shoot him...where is his town ego? I'm calling shenanigans. Dudes scum.
On January 05 2014 18:49 Hopeless1der wrote: Yamato didnt consider that scum might shoot him...where is his town ego? I'm calling shenanigans. Dudes scum.
I did nothing D1 at all, basically, and have been accused of being mafia since the start of the game by multiple different people.
I'll be back tomorrow, and I will be here only a little longer. Was considering holding off on that but frankly I am pretty confident in this read for once in my life.
Besides Sentinel and Mr.CC, in the next post you make, claim your role and actions on N1! If you do not do this you are mafia. I am a parity cop and tried to check thrawn, got roleblocked.
Well you are mafia because the only post where you give any sort of reads is a post where you doubt all the players in the game. Including the blue claims, which means there must be more blues or your post is completely useless. If there are no more blues than the climed ones it cannot be possible that the claims are mafia. You are not trying to resolve this situation by asking the real blues to claim (which would solve the game since we have a mislynch), therefore your only real post in this game is completely bullshity.
You, yamato, are one of the most obvious town players there is on the planet. You have opinions as town, at least when the game is on D2 and there are two flips which one of them is mafia, and night actions to analyze. The only thing you can come up with is a bullshit theory about scum shooting their own and all the blues in the game fakeclaiming with no counter claims.
This is like the most obvioius mafia catch in the game.
Alakaslam i want you to clarify a couple of things:
You made a case on Hopeless based on him proposing a random lynch and his voting behavior.
1) The random lynch is in fact a random lynch so how is that alignment indicative? Why does proposing a random lynch at the start of the game make Hopeless mafia? 2) Where exactly is Hopeless soft-defending gumshoe on D1, i can't see it? 3) If you are stanfding behind your accusation of Hopeless soft-defending gumshoe, how can you say you were not doing the same thing? In my opinion you (using your terms and logic) are "soft-defending" gumshoe just as much as Hopeless as your voting behavior and stance on random lynch matches exactly Hopeless' on D1. 4) Who is the other mafia in your opinion besides Hopeless?
There are three blue claims. Me, Mr.SexyCake, and Sentinel can't all be mafia, so there are 2 scenarios he is considering:
1) Mr.CC and Sentinel are both fake-claiming and i am telling the truth. This can't possibly be true because that would mean there would be another blue claim and they would have shot their own scumbuddy. Town mislynched on D1 so instead of trying to mislynch on D2 they are giving town a mislynch by shooting their scumbuddy and instantly losing the game if someone claims blue on D2 (if someone claims we lynch one of Sent/CC or the blue claim - if the blue claim turns up blue, scum lose). This is ridiculosu to even consider.
2) I decided to fakeclaim parity cop 1h into the game instead of just not claiming. This makes no sense given that yamato knows how confident i am at my scumplay. Let's entertain a scenario that i did something very stupid (which i would never do) as mafia. The only reason i would do that as mafia is to assume there is no parity cop in the game - because one-one trade is ridiculous in a game where i can just mislynch 2 townies and win the game. There is no counter-claim. I have gained the town credit i was looking for. Good. What's my next move. I decide to buss my teammate thrawn by asking a vigilante to shoot him on N1. I already know there is no parity cop in the game because noone counter-claimed me, so the reasonable assumption is that there is a vigilante in the game. So i made a stupid and a risky claim that could end up in a 1-1 trade, when it worked, i make a stupid move that risks my scumbuddy being shot or lynched on D2 for town-credit i have already gained from my fake claim. In addition to all this stupidness thrawn, my scumbuddy, does not give me the town credit from my fake claim (which was the point of my scumteam in the first place) but instead attacks me and we go 1vs1 with him ensuring we pretty much tunnel each other on D2 - that will most likely end up in one of us getting lynched. So me, raynpelikoneet, did this as mafia, instead of... just lynching townies and playing scum as i normally do, by controlling the thread. Ridiculous.
Based purely on yamato even considering something this stupid he is mafia, 100%.
Damnit rayn i was actually going to do something for a change. Took the words out of my mouth. This is what i get for waking up at 5am then going back to sleep.
This post is from TL LXIII where BH tried to use an RNG lynch as his mayoral campaign.
On November 16 2013 08:58 Blazinghand wrote: Hey so before we go all pant-head here I will upgrade to sock-head and push for an RNG lynch
So here's what happens
1) you elect me mayor
2) I will lynch the guy via RNG as determined by this post (the one you're reading right now)'s post count modulo 31. Since so many people are posting at once on TL it's impossible for us to know what's going down. I've done this before. It works.
For RNG, this post will be used for generating a random lynch. The # in the upper left corner can be right-clicked and used to access the absolute TL post # for this post. That number mod 9 is the random lynch. 1 =Oats, 2 = rayn, etc, all the way up to 8 = holyflare and 0 = sloosh.
The reason we use the absolute TL post number is that posts are constantly being made, so the number is truly random. We turn it into a number 1-9 by taking that number mod 9. What is mod? effectively, it's the remainder after division. For example. 10 mod 9 = 1. 11 mod 9 = 2. 18 mod 9 = 0. 19 mod 9 = 1. and so on.
Basically, this generates a random number 1 through 9. I am in favor of the random lynch (though am somewhat interested in a policy lynch today as well-- TL does not do this enough. I will start off by voting for the random lynched based on THIS POST.
In this case, 1 = BC 2 = Mattchew 3 = Sharrant 4 = VE
and so on
all the way up to... 30 = BH 0 = Oatsmaster
(since a multiple of 31 modulo 31 is 0, not 31).
From that same game, here is yamato's reactions to NOT getting made mayor and being subsequently shot N1.
On November 18 2013 06:49 yamato77 wrote: Okay, so I've caught up to the lynch since I stopped reading yesterday due to going to my friend's birthday and then subsequently passing out for 12+ hours. FIRST and FOREMOST, I want to say that neither super nor VE have analyzed just about anyone in the game at all up to this point and yet people trusted their reads and analysis skills over mine (LOLOLOLOLOL). I should have been elected pardoner, mafia will 100% shoot me tonight.
hiss gg post
On November 18 2013 10:02 yamato77 wrote: I told you I was dead
idiots.
Also, yamato's general opinion of me, again from LXIII
On November 17 2013 02:31 Pandain wrote: Yamato if you're mayor I think you should lynch hopeless or BH. I think Storr is good becasue he is playing pretty weird and he is playing the newb card so much when he really shouldn't and it's becoming really disconcerting especially since he also ran for mayor.
If you have time, or happen to remember LXIII, yamato is absolutely capable of providing a compelling and eloquent argument. He has multiple large posts that arent simply a summary they are brief analyses of players that demonstrate critical thought and scrutiny. In this game, his list posts are lacking in this regard.
I especially have a problem with the fact that he has a documented history of thinking I'm generally useless and has found sufficient reasoning in "my filter" to say I should be lynched with fire.
As rayn already noted, Yamato has been trying to cast doubt on the blueclaims
On January 05 2014 17:29 yamato77 wrote: This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed.
There are no counterclaims, that is evidence by itself. Unless yamato is counterclaiming (and he hasnt to my knowledge) then the simple answer is that all the night action claims are legit. Rayn's needs to be scrutinized at this point, but imo his claim also checks out. Ergo 3 confirmed town for the sake of limiting our scope of analysis unless there are counterclaims.
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
Where does yamato fall on this list of townliness? No one else thinks its strange that he doesn't consider himself a viable shot? Especially after the points I pulled from LXIII about him knowing he was about to die before he was shot?
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
This is unnecessary fluff
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
coag, kush, hopeless as possible mafia. convenient that slams missing. I guess he's being readable this game and the 3 of us aren't? You don't need to be scummy to be mafia in yamato's game, you just need to be lurk or troll and that is sufficient.
Yamato has gone against the grain saying claimed prs are not confirmed town. I disagree but I don't think yamato's overly paranoid behavior points to scum. Why would scum choose to go against town popular opinion so strongly? Rayne, hopeless, you are voting for yamato on the basis that his scumplan is to push the lynch of claimed prs. That is the scum motivation you are giving for his opionion about claimed pr. That is not realistic. I don't think scum would ever try to do that. Scum is going to push the vts, like myself, coag, and probably yamato. So with that in mind, Yamato's disagreement with you really has no plausible scum motivation behind it.
So where are the scum. Well I just found one. He is jumping right on rayn's "u no make sense!" yamato wagon.
Another possibility i just realized is yamato is pr and that's why he mysteriously doubts that all the prs are telling the truth. that actually makes a lot of sense. omg kush pro bluhunter.
On January 05 2014 23:55 kushm4sta wrote: Another possibility i just realized is yamato is pr and that's why he mysteriously doubts that all the prs are telling the truth. that actually makes a lot of sense. omg kush pro bluhunter.
well he hasnt counterclaimed. I pointed this out already.
kushmasta i am voting for yamato because he hasn't done shit in this game and he is better than this. Also his logic is flawed and it does not make any sense from town perspective.
On January 05 2014 13:18 kushm4sta wrote: coag There is no amount of effort shown this game, which leans scummy to me. It seems like in his town games, he makes an effort to show you he is town. He doesn't do that at all here.
On January 04 2014 10:53 Coagulation wrote: guis dont ignore me. say my name.
He loves to do this too scummy to be scum shit as scum. Conclusion: SCUM
On January 05 2014 17:06 kushm4sta wrote: lol coag I'm so readable. You just haven't seen my scum game recently to know how bad it looks. but yeah coag looks pretty town and I agree with his reads. yamato should be given time, obiviously.
So Coag goes from scum to town for thinking yamato is scum (which you don't agree with) and because he thinks you are unreadable (which you say is incorrect).
On January 06 2014 00:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: But that's entirely incorrect. Alakaslam attacked me on D1, that's not lurker hunting.
ok thanks for reminding me. that attack on you is scummy in itself. I mean he did the same thing that you are calling yamato scummy for, except he backtracked super quickly to conform to popular opinion. imo that makes alaka's stance a much scummier version of yamato's.
On January 06 2014 00:46 kushm4sta wrote: furthermore there are reasons why yamato might not want to counter claim his blue role.
well then I'd like him to bring them up. Its not a stupid part of the argument. He's beating around the bush on whether the PRs are legit. I'm here trying to confirm townies, how is that a scum agenda? Yamato is reluctantly admitting they are probably good but still clutches to 'sent seems redish' and 'rayn makes no sense' both of which do not appear to be reasonable statements to me.
1) kushm4sta - Ok so I liked his point on hopeless as I explain later, but this point about Yamato is 100% wrong.
yamato town. just town. His early suspicion on thrawn doesn't look like a bus. Plus process of elimination (I already have one too many scummers lol)
WHAT early suspicion on Thrawn??? I don't understand how any town person can have a townread on Yamato right now, and using some non-existent suspicion on Thrawn is really bad.
2) alakaslam - Has seemed really town to me all game. Has engaged in conversation, and had thoughts very similar to mine. Upon seeing the gumshoe/rayn fiasco that was occuring, he posts this:
On January 04 2014 08:27 Alakaslam wrote: Ok everything essentially just became a food fight from my perspective.
At first I was thinking Rayne and Gumshoe scum, because seeing the layout concerns Rayne pointed out coupled with gumeshoe's post implying what I am doing is usually seen as scummy in reply to him, it looked like something to be able to lynch LHF with no recompense.
Then, after they talk a bit, I see Rayne going after gumshoe for said post and I'm like "well they certainly aren't scum together" and then Yamato77 wildly says between them he would go after Rayne!
Then gumshoe explains himself to Rayne and it makes sense- my how my reads fly -_-
This makes me ask, what are people's thoughts about hopeless and I rng'ing Kush? He has said nothing, and we are what, a couple hours into the game? I mean seriously, are we wrong/scummy or vote with us? Or what in between?
I was thinking pretty much the exact same things, and this leads me to believe he is town. He also has genuine posts like he doesn't trust his own reads, etc etc... and he even goes after Rayn for claiming parity cop. I don't think scum would yell at the cop like that -- he's just paranoid town.
4) Hopeless1der - I don't really think Hopeless is town anymore. He prodded the RNG lynch, whatever, non alignment indicative. He didn't really PUSH his RNG lynch at all, just sat on the sidelines and voted for Gumshoe for no reason. Upon the daypost he said some generic stuff which is null. His case on Yamato isn't really convicincing, sadly. Overall I haven't seen much from Hopeless to indicate that he's town, but not enough to say he's mafia... HOWEVER. Kush brings up a good point about Hopeless that I'll keep here, I believe it is valid.
On January 05 2014 13:18 kushm4sta wrote:
hopeless His position on gumshoe throughout d1 makes no sense. First he soft defends him.
On January 04 2014 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure gumshoe is mafia. Nothing he says is making sense atm.
no, but you did just claim cop for questionable reasons.
And that has to do with anything how? Are you discrediting me or are you calling me scum or are you agreeing with me? What exactly are you saying here?
im saying gumshoe not making sense could be because hes confused, not necessarily mafia. You're totes town
On January 04 2014 10:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he does not think i am mafia i have no reason to lie about why i claimed in the first place, which i stated was not because of pressure. Either way he is bullshitting.
I'll be honest, I didnt read very closely the first time around. gumshoe is a good lynch. but, BETTER THAN RNG? I DUNNO.
Suddenly Gumshoe is a good lynch for no reason other than he didn't read before. I would expect a townie hopeless to have like a sentence explaining what aspect of the argument convinced him.
5) Raynpelikoneet - Claimed Parity Cop, 3 blues doesn't seem too bad in a game where it's 3 mafia v 7 town, and parity cop sucks nuts. Has acted fairly pro-town all game, pushed Thrawn into getting vigged by Sentinel.
6) coagulation - Really hasn't done anything, typical Coag. Only thing I really hated was his point on 'slam talking about lurker hunting the entire game which he only did at the beginning.
7) [UoN]Sentinel - Vigilante, shot mafia N1.
8) Yamato77 - Parroting off of others, don't feel like writing a lot, but I agree with Rayn pretty much. I don't like how he says "Good to see my suspicion on Thrawn was correct" because he had no suspicion on thrawn from what I can tell. All i see in his filter is a giant list post, AFTER the day post, saying thrawn = red. No reasoning given. Even if Yamato is town and he was posting his nighttime reads, the thrawn mafia read would have AT LEAST A SENTENCE OF EXPLANATION.
FMPOV the unknowns are technically Coag / Kush / Yamato / Hopeless / Slam. We have to pick two that are town, and then lynch into the other three to win the game.
Slam I think is townie. So lynch into coag/kush/yamato/hopeless. I really want to lynch kush for that line about Yamato being town cus thrawn suspicion.
cheesecake when i was talking about yamato's early suspicion on thrawn, that was a complete error on my part. i attributed something rayn said to yamato. that's not why I think he's town.
On January 06 2014 02:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: wtf is with everyone saying Hopeless soft-defended gumshoe? That's not a defense as it does not answer my argument in any way.
Soft defense as in "I don't think that means he's scum" sort of way. Even if it doesn't answer your argument it's still an attempt to defend, imo.
On January 06 2014 02:21 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Rayn who is town out of Coag / Kush / Yamato / hopeless because we just have to choose one, then lynch the rest for the win.
We are in 6-2, which means if we mislynch we're in MYLO. So we have 1 mislynch.
I am pretty sure Coag and Hopeless are town and Alakaslam is by no means anywhere near town as he is saying Hopeless is scum for exactly same stuff he did himself all D1.
But yamato is mafia because he is playing so much under his standards. He basically called everyone possibly mafia but then Hopeless was the most mafia - Alakaslam town (hint: both of those guys acted quite similarly on D1).
hopeless' +1 on gumshoe was out of no where. this case on yamato is completely lacking in town type logic. All his arguments are very surface level and very easy kinds of arguments for scum to make.
If you have time, or happen to remember LXIII, yamato is absolutely capable of providing a compelling and eloquent argument. He has multiple large posts that arent simply a summary they are brief analyses of players that demonstrate critical thought and scrutiny. In this game, his list posts are lacking in this regard.
I especially have a problem with the fact that he has a documented history of thinking I'm generally useless and has found sufficient reasoning in "my filter" to say I should be lynched with fire.
As rayn already noted, Yamato has been trying to cast doubt on the blueclaims
On January 05 2014 17:29 yamato77 wrote: This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed.
There are no counterclaims, that is evidence by itself. Unless yamato is counterclaiming (and he hasnt to my knowledge) then the simple answer is that all the night action claims are legit. Rayn's needs to be scrutinized at this point, but imo his claim also checks out. Ergo 3 confirmed town for the sake of limiting our scope of analysis unless there are counterclaims.
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
Where does yamato fall on this list of townliness? No one else thinks its strange that he doesn't consider himself a viable shot? Especially after the points I pulled from LXIII about him knowing he was about to die before he was shot?
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
This is unnecessary fluff
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
coag, kush, hopeless as possible mafia. convenient that slams missing. I guess he's being readable this game and the 3 of us aren't? You don't need to be scummy to be mafia in yamato's game, you just need to be lurk or troll and that is sufficient.
.
Also he completely ignores my defense of yamato and focuses on "Why doesn't he claim if he's blue?" which is not even th epoint...
On January 06 2014 02:21 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Rayn who is town out of Coag / Kush / Yamato / hopeless because we just have to choose one, then lynch the rest for the win.
We are in 6-2, which means if we mislynch we're in MYLO. So we have 1 mislynch.
I am pretty sure Coag and Hopeless are town and Alakaslam is by no means anywhere near town as he is saying Hopeless is scum for exactly same stuff he did himself all D1.
But yamato is mafia because he is playing so much under his standards. He basically called everyone possibly mafia but then Hopeless was the most mafia - Alakaslam town (hint: both of those guys acted quite similarly on D1).
this was on the assumption of slam town. we pick town out of there, and if we mislynch from 3 dudes then we lynch the other two who are mafia so we would win.
i thought coag's post was really insightful actually. his ratio of insight to effort pwns everyone else in this game. that is of why i fear he may be busing. I see it like this: If alaka is town, which is possible i guess but I doubt it, coag is town. If alaka is scum, 30% chance coag is busing.
On January 06 2014 02:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato is at L-1. If he flips green then I want hopeless to die. Because fuck 2 mafia being inside kush/coag/slam--that's just cruel by BH.
quite frankly i dont know who is liable to get lynched tomorrow, but I know I want yamato lynched today so i said what I thought I could to get you onto him. You already said you had a scumread on him so I didnt think it'd be particularly hard to convince you
Raynepelikoneet have you read Hopeless1der's filter? Do you know that I openly admitted to the hypocrisy of what I was doing in my case?
However! It also was a "for lack of alternative" vote, through a townread/non-read on others at the time, so I am going to filter Yamato and Kush now. I still claim Alakaslam cannot read Coagulation.
First I'm going to reread others cases/suspicions.
Anyway, the one overarching problem with Kush's reads, is that if everyone is scum (barring yamato because kush "ran out of space"), then it's kush that has the problem, not the targets.
On January 05 2014 20:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: Alakaslam i want you to clarify a couple of things:
You made a case on Hopeless based on him proposing a random lynch and his voting behavior.
1) The random lynch is in fact a random lynch so how is that alignment indicative? Why does proposing a random lynch at the start of the game make Hopeless mafia? 2) Where exactly is Hopeless soft-defending gumshoe on D1, i can't see it? 3) If you are stanfding behind your accusation of Hopeless soft-defending gumshoe, how can you say you were not doing the same thing? In my opinion you (using your terms and logic) are "soft-defending" gumshoe just as much as Hopeless as your voting behavior and stance on random lynch matches exactly Hopeless' on D1. 4) Who is the other mafia in your opinion besides Hopeless?
Seeing this again I believe you will want a point by point defense.
1)The fact that the lynch is random means he can actually control it- I.E. Lie that he ran it through RNG because if it is truly random we wouldn't even expect to get the same result and if it isn't truly random he can game the math. HOWEVER THIS DOESNT FORCE HIM TO BE MAFIA. I think you jump to conclusions really fast Rayne, what makes him Mafia is the points I made in tandem, and a lack of other full reads at the time- I admit it was probably rash but I stand by my perception that he is scummy- even still. 2) he keeps being correct- saying that stuff you accused him of doesn't mean he is scum (which we now know was true). Being correct on alignments is not impossible as scum, on the contrary it is significantly easier. I wouldn't use it to cry scum by itself- if town, it's just proper town play. Which segways into my answer for 3) I actually agreed with him on both counts at the time- I wasn't sure gumshoe was scum, it took my epic failure read on you to make me decide I really should let better hunters make the decisions.
Finally, the answer to 4) I would like to find out now. Going to read others cases and probably Yamato and Kush contain the other scum. DISCLAIMER: this is me stating the opinions of others and trusting that for a bit. I will develop my own reads and post them in the evening since my relatives are visiting to- I mean, because I will be eating dinner
Blazinghand
May even post pictures for proof- so please don't hammer someone questionable till I get back? Make sure it is totes scum before you pull such shenannies.
... Eh what do I know. If my not all that reliable anyway scum hunting doesn't make it before lynch, do what you see as right. But there is no need to rush.
Ok the dumb thing fmpov: my scum read and a conftown I don't wholly trust but still put a lot of stock in are the ones pushin Yamato. So forget that I will form my own read on him.
Seems like a lot of people think Kush Yamato, I will now find out why.
On January 06 2014 02:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato is at L-1. If he flips green then I want hopeless to die. Because fuck 2 mafia being inside kush/coag/slam--that's just cruel by BH.
Real quick I want to agree but point out not because setup speculation but because hopeless is already a scum read who is pushing Yamato. So if Yamato is green it is another peripheral to hopeless being scum.
On January 06 2014 02:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: If Yamato is red then Hopeless super town and we pretty much win the game.
This is a great reason to plynch Yamato, ASSUMING THAT IS TRUE- can you back your statement up Cheesecake?
However, I will read Yamato for myself now.
a great reason to lynch yamato is some half baked connection theory??? ok.. Sometimes I can't even believe the scummy shit that comes out of people's mouths and no one else notices it.
Yamato said he was busy. He said his activity would pick up soon. Give him time to return and do something for jesus sakes.
On January 06 2014 02:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: If Yamato is red then Hopeless super town and we pretty much win the game.
This is a great reason to plynch Yamato, ASSUMING THAT IS TRUE- can you back your statement up Cheesecake?
However, I will read Yamato for myself now.
a great reason to lynch yamato is some half baked connection theory??? ok.. Sometimes I can't even believe the scummy shit that comes out of people's mouths and no one else notices it.
Yamato said he was busy. He said his activity would pick up soon. Give him time to return and do something for jesus sakes.
On January 05 2014 04:22 Hopeless1der wrote: Oh, complete conspiracy theory, mafia shot their own to be able to claim medic and vig for themselves.
this is still a possibility, by the way.
I'll be back later (in about 8 hours). DON'T LYNCH ANYONE WHILE I AM GONE. After my shift today, I am off for two days and can totally devote the time to solving this game for certain.
5. This game follows an instant simple majority lynch. The instant a player has the majority of votes on him, the day ends. So if there are 8 players you need 5 to lynch, if there are 7 players you need 4 to lynch.
Looks like there's a discrepancy. According to the OP yamato is at L-2
On January 06 2014 02:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: If Yamato is red then Hopeless super town and we pretty much win the game.
This is a great reason to plynch Yamato, ASSUMING THAT IS TRUE- can you back your statement up Cheesecake?
However, I will read Yamato for myself now.
a great reason to lynch yamato is some half baked connection theory??? ok.. Sometimes I can't even believe the scummy shit that comes out of people's mouths and no one else notices it.
Yamato said he was busy. He said his activity would pick up soon. Give him time to return and do something for jesus sakes.
On January 05 2014 04:22 Hopeless1der wrote: Oh, complete conspiracy theory, mafia shot their own to be able to claim medic and vig for themselves.
this is still a possibility, by the way.
I'll be back later (in about 8 hours). DON'T LYNCH ANYONE WHILE I AM GONE. After my shift today, I am off for two days and can totally devote the time to solving this game for certain.
He promised he would be solving this game by now?
I did have to sleep last night at some point after staying up until 5AM.
Also: Why did your "night reads" list have thrawn as red? I don't understand why, if you were town and had a scumread on him, you wouldnt explain it during your post when day broke. You couldnt have known thrawn would die so some explanation of this read would have been necessary
So, let's start by addressing the accusations leveled at me on page 22 from Rayn and Hopeless. Most of the game seems content sheeping this reasoning, so I have to shoot it down so I can establish the townie base on which I can push my platform.
On January 05 2014 19:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you are mafia because the only post where you give any sort of reads is a post where you doubt all the players in the game. Including the blue claims, which means there must be more blues or your post is completely useless. If there are no more blues than the climed ones it cannot be possible that the claims are mafia. You are not trying to resolve this situation by asking the real blues to claim (which would solve the game since we have a mislynch), therefore your only real post in this game is completely bullshity.
You, yamato, are one of the most obvious town players there is on the planet. You have opinions as town, at least when the game is on D2 and there are two flips which one of them is mafia, and night actions to analyze. The only thing you can come up with is a bullshit theory about scum shooting their own and all the blues in the game fakeclaiming with no counter claims.
This is like the most obvioius mafia catch in the game.
I doubted the blue claims because instantly believing claims in a semi-open setup is pretty silly. I had not yet thought about any of them seriously when I posted at the start of the day. The reads I posted then were, as I said before, formed mostly overnight during the silent phase, and done hastily mostly as my own notes.
As you can see later on, I did consider the claims and came to the conclusion that of the three, I trusted you the least because of how you have been playing today and the unconfirmed nature of your claim. However, I also very clearly came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth lynching you today, rather that I should focus on the unconfirmed players.
Of those four, Slam is the towniest. Other people disagree, but he is obviously trying this game and appears to be thinking things through in a clear manner. I have explained this at length, so it's not worth discussing further, we are not lynching him today.
Kush is the next towniest. I had no read before today, but he's put in real effort today and actually seems to be thinking about my alignment. I don't think scum kush fights my lynch at all, let alone as hard as he has today.He simply has no reason to.
Between Hopeless/Coag, Coag is actually townier, but not by much. Both of them could definitely be mafia, but I feel like lynching Hopeless more. I'll explain my Hopeless read at length later on.
On January 05 2014 21:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: So this is what yamato is suggesting.
There are three blue claims. Me, Mr.SexyCake, and Sentinel can't all be mafia, so there are 2 scenarios he is considering:
1) Mr.CC and Sentinel are both fake-claiming and i am telling the truth. This can't possibly be true because that would mean there would be another blue claim and they would have shot their own scumbuddy. Town mislynched on D1 so instead of trying to mislynch on D2 they are giving town a mislynch by shooting their scumbuddy and instantly losing the game if someone claims blue on D2 (if someone claims we lynch one of Sent/CC or the blue claim - if the blue claim turns up blue, scum lose). This is ridiculosu to even consider.
2) I decided to fakeclaim parity cop 1h into the game instead of just not claiming. This makes no sense given that yamato knows how confident i am at my scumplay. Let's entertain a scenario that i did something very stupid (which i would never do) as mafia. The only reason i would do that as mafia is to assume there is no parity cop in the game - because one-one trade is ridiculous in a game where i can just mislynch 2 townies and win the game. There is no counter-claim. I have gained the town credit i was looking for. Good. What's my next move. I decide to buss my teammate thrawn by asking a vigilante to shoot him on N1. I already know there is no parity cop in the game because noone counter-claimed me, so the reasonable assumption is that there is a vigilante in the game. So i made a stupid and a risky claim that could end up in a 1-1 trade, when it worked, i make a stupid move that risks my scumbuddy being shot or lynched on D2 for town-credit i have already gained from my fake claim. In addition to all this stupidness thrawn, my scumbuddy, does not give me the town credit from my fake claim (which was the point of my scumteam in the first place) but instead attacks me and we go 1vs1 with him ensuring we pretty much tunnel each other on D2 - that will most likely end up in one of us getting lynched. So me, raynpelikoneet, did this as mafia, instead of... just lynching townies and playing scum as i normally do, by controlling the thread. Ridiculous.
Based purely on yamato even considering something this stupid he is mafia, 100%.
I've addressed the claim situation, you're taking this a bit far. You fakeclaim often as both alignments, I do not trust you at all in any situation involving claims.
On January 05 2014 22:38 Hopeless1der wrote: This post is from TL LXIII where BH tried to use an RNG lynch as his mayoral campaign.
On November 16 2013 08:58 Blazinghand wrote: Hey so before we go all pant-head here I will upgrade to sock-head and push for an RNG lynch
So here's what happens
1) you elect me mayor
2) I will lynch the guy via RNG as determined by this post (the one you're reading right now)'s post count modulo 31. Since so many people are posting at once on TL it's impossible for us to know what's going down. I've done this before. It works.
For RNG, this post will be used for generating a random lynch. The # in the upper left corner can be right-clicked and used to access the absolute TL post # for this post. That number mod 9 is the random lynch. 1 =Oats, 2 = rayn, etc, all the way up to 8 = holyflare and 0 = sloosh.
The reason we use the absolute TL post number is that posts are constantly being made, so the number is truly random. We turn it into a number 1-9 by taking that number mod 9. What is mod? effectively, it's the remainder after division. For example. 10 mod 9 = 1. 11 mod 9 = 2. 18 mod 9 = 0. 19 mod 9 = 1. and so on.
Basically, this generates a random number 1 through 9. I am in favor of the random lynch (though am somewhat interested in a policy lynch today as well-- TL does not do this enough. I will start off by voting for the random lynched based on THIS POST.
In this case, 1 = BC 2 = Mattchew 3 = Sharrant 4 = VE
and so on
all the way up to... 30 = BH 0 = Oatsmaster
(since a multiple of 31 modulo 31 is 0, not 31).
From that same game, here is yamato's reactions to NOT getting made mayor and being subsequently shot N1.
On November 18 2013 06:49 yamato77 wrote: Okay, so I've caught up to the lynch since I stopped reading yesterday due to going to my friend's birthday and then subsequently passing out for 12+ hours. FIRST and FOREMOST, I want to say that neither super nor VE have analyzed just about anyone in the game at all up to this point and yet people trusted their reads and analysis skills over mine (LOLOLOLOLOL). I should have been elected pardoner, mafia will 100% shoot me tonight.
On November 17 2013 02:31 Pandain wrote: Yamato if you're mayor I think you should lynch hopeless or BH. I think Storr is good becasue he is playing pretty weird and he is playing the newb card so much when he really shouldn't and it's becoming really disconcerting especially since he also ran for mayor.
Why hopeless?
I mean, he's always useless.
This is thin. Many people have used my extremely good town games against me when I have a slow start. I don't always play the same and I don't always have the time to devote to being super town. I know the difference between when I've been playing well and look townie and a game like this where I am under fire most of the time. Look at D1 of Thug Life, for an example of a town game similar to this one.
As for my opinion of you, yes, you are often useless, HOWEVER, you are tunneling me blindly on ridiculously thin grounds based on ONE GAME of meta. You are not this bad of a town player. Plus, as was pointed out by Kush, you were fishy with your opinion of gumshoe D1 and have also sheeped Rayn hard today in calling me mafia, which is a sharp turn away from your early posts where you say I deserve time. It just doesn't add up unless you are mafia.
On January 05 2014 22:52 Hopeless1der wrote: If you have time, or happen to remember LXIII, yamato is absolutely capable of providing a compelling and eloquent argument. He has multiple large posts that arent simply a summary they are brief analyses of players that demonstrate critical thought and scrutiny. In this game, his list posts are lacking in this regard.
I especially have a problem with the fact that he has a documented history of thinking I'm generally useless and has found sufficient reasoning in "my filter" to say I should be lynched with fire.
As rayn already noted, Yamato has been trying to cast doubt on the blueclaims
On January 05 2014 17:29 yamato77 wrote: This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed.
There are no counterclaims, that is evidence by itself. Unless yamato is counterclaiming (and he hasnt to my knowledge) then the simple answer is that all the night action claims are legit. Rayn's needs to be scrutinized at this point, but imo his claim also checks out. Ergo 3 confirmed town for the sake of limiting our scope of analysis unless there are counterclaims.
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
Where does yamato fall on this list of townliness? No one else thinks its strange that he doesn't consider himself a viable shot? Especially after the points I pulled from LXIII about him knowing he was about to die before he was shot?
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
coag, kush, hopeless as possible mafia. convenient that slams missing. I guess he's being readable this game and the 3 of us aren't? You don't need to be scummy to be mafia in yamato's game, you just need to be lurk or troll and that is sufficient.
.
I had explained my read on Slam multiple times by now, so that is not a point against me. You other three are the only other players worth looking at today, and I've talked about that at length earlier in this post.
Does anyone else feel the need for me to respond to anything else? If not, I'll be working through exactly why Hopeless is mafia in a subsequent post.
On January 06 2014 05:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Also: Why did your "night reads" list have thrawn as red? I don't understand why, if you were town and had a scumread on him, you wouldnt explain it during your post when day broke. You couldnt have known thrawn would die so some explanation of this read would have been necessary
I did explain the read, he was low activity and Sentinel did point out the terribad vote. Classic scum thrawn.
I explained this multiple times already. I have been under suspicion and relatively inactive this game. It's obviously easy enough to just push a lynch on me, as you can see.
On January 06 2014 05:18 Hopeless1der wrote: his reasons were voting+low activity.
My point is this is incredibly lazy for a town yamato. I would expect with 24 hours he would have come up with more than that. The whole post really seems last minute instead of thinking about it overnight.
On January 06 2014 05:18 Hopeless1der wrote: his reasons were voting+low activity.
My point is this is incredibly lazy for a town yamato. I would expect with 24 hours he would have come up with more than that. The whole post really seems last minute instead of thinking about it overnight.
I formed them hastily at 4AM, mostly for my own notes.
Is this your biggest concern or is there something more substantial I should address?
On January 06 2014 05:18 Hopeless1der wrote: his reasons were voting+low activity.
My point is this is incredibly lazy for a town yamato. I would expect with 24 hours he would have come up with more than that. The whole post really seems last minute instead of thinking about it overnight.
I formed them hastily at 4AM, mostly for my own notes.
Is this your biggest concern or is there something more substantial I should address?
There is nothing in here that isn't factually correct. Lack of counterclaim does not prove Rayn is town, we do not know what roles exist in this setup.
On January 05 2014 16:59 yamato77 wrote: No one is confirmed town for claiming anything, for starters.
did you read the game? because sent, rayn, cc are 100% confirmed and that's not even an opinion.
This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed.
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
On January 06 2014 06:40 yamato77 wrote: There is nothing in here that isn't factually correct. Lack of counterclaim does not prove Rayn is town, we do not know what roles exist in this setup.
On January 05 2014 16:59 yamato77 wrote: No one is confirmed town for claiming anything, for starters.
did you read the game? because sent, rayn, cc are 100% confirmed and that's not even an opinion.
This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed.
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
from a balance perspective rayn is cop. in a game with 3 mafia, 10 town there are usually 3 blues.
this game has 3 mafia and 7 town...
regardless. I do like hopeless as mafia, but rayn doesnt see it. I just know it's one of you or hopeless. cus i can't see coag / kush together?
On January 06 2014 06:40 yamato77 wrote: There is nothing in here that isn't factually correct. Lack of counterclaim does not prove Rayn is town, we do not know what roles exist in this setup.
On January 05 2014 17:29 yamato77 wrote:
On January 05 2014 17:10 kushm4sta wrote:
On January 05 2014 16:59 yamato77 wrote: No one is confirmed town for claiming anything, for starters.
did you read the game? because sent, rayn, cc are 100% confirmed and that's not even an opinion.
This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed.
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
from a balance perspective rayn is cop. in a game with 3 mafia, 10 town there are usually 3 blues.
this game has 3 mafia and 7 town...
regardless. I do like hopeless as mafia, but rayn doesnt see it. I just know it's one of you or hopeless. cus i can't see coag / kush together?
Balance is a silly thing to rely on, but I will say that I haven't exactly been chomping at the bit calling rayn a liar, either. It's simply good play to not just believe claims without thinking critically about them. I don't exactly think he's lying, I just think it's better to consider him independent of his claim at the moment, which STILL puts him outside of the players I want to lynch into today.
Do you disagree that Slam/Kush are townie? If so, why? In the mean time, I will explain my hopeless read at length.
On January 06 2014 06:46 kushm4sta wrote: Yamato Im still not getting why you think you can't confirm the three claims town. And that post doesn't explain it to me.
Is it that you think a real PR is hiding for some reason or you didn't read the OP or what?
The OP does not confirm them as town. It states clearly that there could be any number of any of the possible roles.
Setup Type This is a semi-closed setup. Which roles are available will be listed, but aside from how many mafia members there are, there is no other setup information. There can be 0+ of any role.
On day 1, LITERALLY THE ONLY THING HOPELESS DID was this:
On January 04 2014 07:15 Hopeless1der wrote: 20524821 mod10 is 1. I should have defined player 10 as 0 but that should be self-evident. 1) kushm4sta (filter) 2) alakaslam (filter) 3) Gumshoe (filter) 4) Hopeless1der (filter) 5) Raynpelikoneet (filter) 6) coagulation (filter) 7) [UoN]Sentinel (filter) 8) Yamato77 (filter) 9) thrawn2112 (filter) 10) Mr. Cheesecake (filter)
Sorry kush, nothing personal. BlazingHand's rules and all
On January 04 2014 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure gumshoe is mafia. Nothing he says is making sense atm.
no, but you did just claim cop for questionable reasons.
And that has to do with anything how? Are you discrediting me or are you calling me scum or are you agreeing with me? What exactly are you saying here?
im saying gumshoe not making sense could be because hes confused, not necessarily mafia. You're totes town
On January 04 2014 10:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he does not think i am mafia i have no reason to lie about why i claimed in the first place, which i stated was not because of pressure. Either way he is bullshitting.
I'll be honest, I didnt read very closely the first time around. gumshoe is a good lynch. but, BETTER THAN RNG? I DUNNO.
On January 04 2014 10:32 Hopeless1der wrote: WARNING WE ARE IN HAMMER RANGE --PROCEED WITH CARE--
This sequence of posts comprises the thought process of Hopeless during the day. Do you see a reason that his vote landed on gumshoe? He goes from defending gumshoe from Rayn by saying he's "confused" to voting him as thread sentiment is moving toward lynching him, with very little justification in between. Overall, his tone day 1 is trollish and basically uncaring, which is typical of a mafia player during this period due to how far ahead they are in information. He doesn't seem to be trying to figure anything out about the game in these posts, he's just making statements and finding his way onto the gumshoe wagon.
Day 2, he begins with massclaim shenanigans, which is NOT indicative of him being town. It APPEARS pro-town, but it also gives mafia the information they want: how did thrawn die, and how did our shot fail? Due to the nature of the setup, THEY DON'T KNOW at this point what happened during the night.
On January 05 2014 04:20 Hopeless1der wrote: Mafia failed their KP. So, options are medic save jailer save or roleblock veteran soaked a hit
In addition we have a vig shot on mafia. We should have 2, maybe 3 confirmable town based on night actions I think.
Here he runs through the possibilities, and EACH ONE is important for how mafia would play out the rest of the game. If it's a medic/JK save, they shoot the person who has just been asked to claim under the pretense of being "confirmed town" for a day. If it's a roleblock, it actually confirms someone (whoever carried out the NK) as mafia. If it's a vet, they can shoot whoever they please, but probably the vet.
On January 05 2014 04:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Why shouldn't the vig claim? If they blew their shot, they're essentially a VT now, right?
They probably should but I'd rather they/we all decide its a good idea that will have a definite benefit, instead of giving scum a place to hide or cause confusion.
Notice that he's not all that interested in the vig claiming here. He's far more concerned with the UNKNOWN information to mafia aside from figuring out which player is the vig that shot thrawn. As noted later on, Hopeless understood why Sentinel shot thrawn, so he may at this point have already figured out who the vig was.
Soon after, the idea of lynching me is discussed, and Hopeless says this:
On January 05 2014 05:29 Hopeless1der wrote: nah yamato promises solutions, he usually delivers. otherwise we lynch him
Half a day later:
On January 05 2014 18:49 Hopeless1der wrote: Yamato didnt consider that scum might shoot him...where is his town ego? I'm calling shenanigans. Dudes scum.
What did I post in between? My thoughts on the claim issue, in detail. Also, notably, I voted for him after picking him out as the best lynch. And this is the best reasoning he can come up with to vote me (also done as other people are accusing me [I SEE A PATTERN!] )? I didn't think mafia would NK me, therefor I am mafia? What the fuck?
On January 06 2014 06:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: if you don't think he's lying then shut up about it could be a fakeclaim. It literally does nothing but make me want to lynch you.
You're all retarded. You're making this a big deal. It COULD be a fakeclaim, but AT THE MOMENT, I DON'T THINK IT IS. However, I AM NOT GOING TO CONSIDER HIM CONFIRMED TOWN just because of his cop claim. I'm done talking about it, all of you have literally zero reason to call me mafia for playing the game ignorant of stupid Rayn claims.
On January 06 2014 08:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Also Rayn is really bad for saying Coag is town. He hasn't done shit this game but give a sparse and shitty list.
@hopeless please expand on your thought process in between thinking gumshoe was town and joining the wagon. It seemed to happen in between two one liners of yours. i want to know exactly what made you change your mind.
His case is just a collection of nitpicks and disagreements he thought up as he was filter diving yamato, which is how I think he would make his cases as scum. He picks someone who seems sufficiently scummy, goes through their filter, and quotes and comments on any shit that he can misconstrue as anti town.
If you have time, or happen to remember LXIII, yamato is absolutely capable of providing a compelling and eloquent argument. He has multiple large posts that arent simply a summary they are brief analyses of players that demonstrate critical thought and scrutiny. In this game, his list posts are lacking in this regard.
I especially have a problem with the fact that he has a documented history of thinking I'm generally useless and has found sufficient reasoning in "my filter" to say I should be lynched with fire.
As rayn already noted, Yamato has been trying to cast doubt on the blueclaims
On January 05 2014 17:29 yamato77 wrote: This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed.
There are no counterclaims, that is evidence by itself. Unless yamato is counterclaiming (and he hasnt to my knowledge) then the simple answer is that all the night action claims are legit. Rayn's needs to be scrutinized at this point, but imo his claim also checks out. Ergo 3 confirmed town for the sake of limiting our scope of analysis unless there are counterclaims.
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
Where does yamato fall on this list of townliness? No one else thinks its strange that he doesn't consider himself a viable shot? Especially after the points I pulled from LXIII about him knowing he was about to die before he was shot?
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
This is unnecessary fluff
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
coag, kush, hopeless as possible mafia. convenient that slams missing. I guess he's being readable this game and the 3 of us aren't? You don't need to be scummy to be mafia in yamato's game, you just need to be lurk or troll and that is sufficient.
On January 06 2014 06:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: if you don't think he's lying then shut up about it could be a fakeclaim. It literally does nothing but make me want to lynch you.
You're all retarded. You're making this a big deal. It COULD be a fakeclaim, but AT THE MOMENT, I DON'T THINK IT IS. However, I AM NOT GOING TO CONSIDER HIM CONFIRMED TOWN just because of his cop claim. I'm done talking about it, all of you have literally zero reason to call me mafia for playing the game ignorant of stupid Rayn claims.
My claims arew never stupid and i am policy lynching you for this in addition to all scummy things.
On January 04 2014 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you do want to policy lynch me for claiming without thinking about my alignment?
I'll say this now, I dont think you were under enough pressure as scum to gamble on a hail marry claim(and its likely youd be lynched in case of a counterclaim anyways) but I feel youve made a mistake as town ) :
If i do not lynch mafia on D1 then i have definitely made a mistake but in my opinion this gives me much higher chances of lynching scum. I don't have to worry about people worrying about me. As i said me being parity cop is same as me being vanilla. I get a first scum check at best on D3. In my opinion at that point of the game there should be 2 mafia dead already. If there is not i am doing something wrong. If i am alive on D3 i am doing something wrong. Therefore me being a parity cop has no upsides besides the fact that if i claim it people can actually trust me and trust my thoughts to have a townie agenda without thinking about the possible scum motivations behind them.
If your plan was to reveal from so early on, why did you wait until you came under fire to reveal? You used your role like a mothership recall after a hatchery snipe XD that doesnt strike me as transparent or townie, also your plan doesnt allow much for error / : what if we lynch one scum and one townie( Which very well may have happened considering you were just trying to lynch me) then that parity cop comes pretty damm in handy. But whateves, like I said not much to do if theres no other claim, but I still find your play rather wasteful, and oddly enough equal parts cynical and optimistic.
On January 04 2014 09:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe do you think i feel pressured regardless of what anyone says about me 2h into the game as mafia?
You didn't announce your role until after people started questioning you, so obviously it was a response to pressure. Are you scum? No, thats not at all likely unless a counter claim comes so your right, no point talking bout it.
Im heading to a friends now, looking forward to peoples reactions when I come back, later all.
This makes absolutely no sense because he states here my mafia motivation for claiming would be because i was under pressure. That can't possibly be true in his opinion because the only one who at that point had accused me of anything was yamato. gumshoe himself agreed with me and turned against yamato for his pressure on me. There is no way gumshoe should be thinking i feel pressured about yamato's accusation because in the first place he himself thinks the accusation is bullshit.
This is what "changed my mind" about gumshoe. Accusing rayn of waiting until he was "under fire" and "reacting to pressure" to claim parity cop. I had only skimmed his posts and understood he couldn't understand why rayn claimed the way he did. When I actually sat down and read things through, I thought it was scummy.
Also, who actually thought an RNG lynch would get pushed? i did that for the hell of it because Slam wanted things to happen
On January 04 2014 07:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe if you were mafia what would you be talking with your scumbuddies in the scum QT atm?
Dude I feel like I could ask everyone this right now.
I mean, it is stupid to say it's scummy to agree with me, but hopeless & Coag been pretty short & simple posts that are noncommittal in nature. We all saw posting requirements are aggressive; so let's post something to say!
On January 06 2014 05:20 yamato77 wrote: So, let's start by addressing the accusations leveled at me on page 22 from Rayn and Hopeless. Most of the game seems content sheeping this reasoning, so I have to shoot it down so I can establish the townie base on which I can push my platform.
On January 05 2014 19:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you are mafia because the only post where you give any sort of reads is a post where you doubt all the players in the game. Including the blue claims, which means there must be more blues or your post is completely useless. If there are no more blues than the climed ones it cannot be possible that the claims are mafia. You are not trying to resolve this situation by asking the real blues to claim (which would solve the game since we have a mislynch), therefore your only real post in this game is completely bullshity.
You, yamato, are one of the most obvious town players there is on the planet. You have opinions as town, at least when the game is on D2 and there are two flips which one of them is mafia, and night actions to analyze. The only thing you can come up with is a bullshit theory about scum shooting their own and all the blues in the game fakeclaiming with no counter claims.
This is like the most obvioius mafia catch in the game.
I doubted the blue claims because instantly believing claims in a semi-open setup is pretty silly. I had not yet thought about any of them seriously when I posted at the start of the day. The reads I posted then were, as I said before, formed mostly overnight during the silent phase, and done hastily mostly as my own notes.
As you can see later on, I did consider the claims and came to the conclusion that of the three, I trusted you the least because of how you have been playing today and the unconfirmed nature of your claim. However, I also very clearly came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth lynching you today, rather that I should focus on the unconfirmed players.
Of those four, Slam is the towniest. Other people disagree, but he is obviously trying this game and appears to be thinking things through in a clear manner. I have explained this at length, so it's not worth discussing further, we are not lynching him today.
Kush is the next towniest. I had no read before today, but he's put in real effort today and actually seems to be thinking about my alignment. I don't think scum kush fights my lynch at all, let alone as hard as he has today.He simply has no reason to.
Between Hopeless/Coag, Coag is actually townier, but not by much. Both of them could definitely be mafia, but I feel like lynching Hopeless more. I'll explain my Hopeless read at length later on.
On January 05 2014 21:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: So this is what yamato is suggesting.
There are three blue claims. Me, Mr.SexyCake, and Sentinel can't all be mafia, so there are 2 scenarios he is considering:
1) Mr.CC and Sentinel are both fake-claiming and i am telling the truth. This can't possibly be true because that would mean there would be another blue claim and they would have shot their own scumbuddy. Town mislynched on D1 so instead of trying to mislynch on D2 they are giving town a mislynch by shooting their scumbuddy and instantly losing the game if someone claims blue on D2 (if someone claims we lynch one of Sent/CC or the blue claim - if the blue claim turns up blue, scum lose). This is ridiculosu to even consider.
2) I decided to fakeclaim parity cop 1h into the game instead of just not claiming. This makes no sense given that yamato knows how confident i am at my scumplay. Let's entertain a scenario that i did something very stupid (which i would never do) as mafia. The only reason i would do that as mafia is to assume there is no parity cop in the game - because one-one trade is ridiculous in a game where i can just mislynch 2 townies and win the game. There is no counter-claim. I have gained the town credit i was looking for. Good. What's my next move. I decide to buss my teammate thrawn by asking a vigilante to shoot him on N1. I already know there is no parity cop in the game because noone counter-claimed me, so the reasonable assumption is that there is a vigilante in the game. So i made a stupid and a risky claim that could end up in a 1-1 trade, when it worked, i make a stupid move that risks my scumbuddy being shot or lynched on D2 for town-credit i have already gained from my fake claim. In addition to all this stupidness thrawn, my scumbuddy, does not give me the town credit from my fake claim (which was the point of my scumteam in the first place) but instead attacks me and we go 1vs1 with him ensuring we pretty much tunnel each other on D2 - that will most likely end up in one of us getting lynched. So me, raynpelikoneet, did this as mafia, instead of... just lynching townies and playing scum as i normally do, by controlling the thread. Ridiculous.
Based purely on yamato even considering something this stupid he is mafia, 100%.
I've addressed the claim situation, you're taking this a bit far. You fakeclaim often as both alignments, I do not trust you at all in any situation involving claims.
On January 05 2014 22:38 Hopeless1der wrote: This post is from TL LXIII where BH tried to use an RNG lynch as his mayoral campaign.
On November 16 2013 08:58 Blazinghand wrote: Hey so before we go all pant-head here I will upgrade to sock-head and push for an RNG lynch
So here's what happens
1) you elect me mayor
2) I will lynch the guy via RNG as determined by this post (the one you're reading right now)'s post count modulo 31. Since so many people are posting at once on TL it's impossible for us to know what's going down. I've done this before. It works.
For RNG, this post will be used for generating a random lynch. The # in the upper left corner can be right-clicked and used to access the absolute TL post # for this post. That number mod 9 is the random lynch. 1 =Oats, 2 = rayn, etc, all the way up to 8 = holyflare and 0 = sloosh.
The reason we use the absolute TL post number is that posts are constantly being made, so the number is truly random. We turn it into a number 1-9 by taking that number mod 9. What is mod? effectively, it's the remainder after division. For example. 10 mod 9 = 1. 11 mod 9 = 2. 18 mod 9 = 0. 19 mod 9 = 1. and so on.
Basically, this generates a random number 1 through 9. I am in favor of the random lynch (though am somewhat interested in a policy lynch today as well-- TL does not do this enough. I will start off by voting for the random lynched based on THIS POST.
In this case, 1 = BC 2 = Mattchew 3 = Sharrant 4 = VE
and so on
all the way up to... 30 = BH 0 = Oatsmaster
(since a multiple of 31 modulo 31 is 0, not 31).
From that same game, here is yamato's reactions to NOT getting made mayor and being subsequently shot N1.
On November 18 2013 06:49 yamato77 wrote: Okay, so I've caught up to the lynch since I stopped reading yesterday due to going to my friend's birthday and then subsequently passing out for 12+ hours. FIRST and FOREMOST, I want to say that neither super nor VE have analyzed just about anyone in the game at all up to this point and yet people trusted their reads and analysis skills over mine (LOLOLOLOLOL). I should have been elected pardoner, mafia will 100% shoot me tonight.
hiss gg post
On November 18 2013 10:02 yamato77 wrote: I told you I was dead
idiots.
Also, yamato's general opinion of me, again from LXIII
On November 17 2013 02:32 yamato77 wrote:
On November 17 2013 02:31 Pandain wrote: Yamato if you're mayor I think you should lynch hopeless or BH. I think Storr is good becasue he is playing pretty weird and he is playing the newb card so much when he really shouldn't and it's becoming really disconcerting especially since he also ran for mayor.
Why hopeless?
I mean, he's always useless.
This is thin. Many people have used my extremely good town games against me when I have a slow start. I don't always play the same and I don't always have the time to devote to being super town. I know the difference between when I've been playing well and look townie and a game like this where I am under fire most of the time. Look at D1 of Thug Life, for an example of a town game similar to this one.
As for my opinion of you, yes, you are often useless, HOWEVER, you are tunneling me blindly on ridiculously thin grounds based on ONE GAME of meta. You are not this bad of a town player. Plus, as was pointed out by Kush, you were fishy with your opinion of gumshoe D1 and have also sheeped Rayn hard today in calling me mafia, which is a sharp turn away from your early posts where you say I deserve time. It just doesn't add up unless you are mafia.
On January 05 2014 22:52 Hopeless1der wrote: If you have time, or happen to remember LXIII, yamato is absolutely capable of providing a compelling and eloquent argument. He has multiple large posts that arent simply a summary they are brief analyses of players that demonstrate critical thought and scrutiny. In this game, his list posts are lacking in this regard.
I especially have a problem with the fact that he has a documented history of thinking I'm generally useless and has found sufficient reasoning in "my filter" to say I should be lynched with fire.
As rayn already noted, Yamato has been trying to cast doubt on the blueclaims
On January 05 2014 17:29 yamato77 wrote: This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed.
There are no counterclaims, that is evidence by itself. Unless yamato is counterclaiming (and he hasnt to my knowledge) then the simple answer is that all the night action claims are legit. Rayn's needs to be scrutinized at this point, but imo his claim also checks out. Ergo 3 confirmed town for the sake of limiting our scope of analysis unless there are counterclaims.
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
Where does yamato fall on this list of townliness? No one else thinks its strange that he doesn't consider himself a viable shot? Especially after the points I pulled from LXIII about him knowing he was about to die before he was shot?
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
This is unnecessary fluff
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
coag, kush, hopeless as possible mafia. convenient that slams missing. I guess he's being readable this game and the 3 of us aren't? You don't need to be scummy to be mafia in yamato's game, you just need to be lurk or troll and that is sufficient.
.
I had explained my read on Slam multiple times by now, so that is not a point against me. You other three are the only other players worth looking at today, and I've talked about that at length earlier in this post.
Does anyone else feel the need for me to respond to anything else? If not, I'll be working through exactly why Hopeless is mafia in a subsequent post.
Quick exercise for you guys. Click Yamato's "all filter" (this link) and ctrl+f "slam". Verify the red/bolded section of this post. Especially look for the points that might be an explanation, and especially that might fit the criteria MULTIPLE TIMES BY NOW. (at the time of this post there are 9 instances of "slam" in yamato's filter. 3 of which are quoted from other players, 1 of which is him quoting himself.
On January 06 2014 02:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato is at L-1. If he flips green then I want hopeless to die. Because fuck 2 mafia being inside kush/coag/slam--that's just cruel by BH.
i'd agree to this, except we'd lose the game.
I meant to say "yeah Mr.Sexycake I'll gladly die to see yamato burn. You can even lynch me first!"
On January 06 2014 06:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: if you don't think he's lying then shut up about it could be a fakeclaim. It literally does nothing but make me want to lynch you.
You're all retarded. You're making this a big deal. It COULD be a fakeclaim, but AT THE MOMENT, I DON'T THINK IT IS. However, I AM NOT GOING TO CONSIDER HIM CONFIRMED TOWN just because of his cop claim. I'm done talking about it, all of you have literally zero reason to call me mafia for playing the game ignorant of stupid Rayn claims.
My claims arew never stupid and i am policy lynching you for this in addition to all scummy things.
On January 06 2014 05:20 yamato77 wrote: So, let's start by addressing the accusations leveled at me on page 22 from Rayn and Hopeless. Most of the game seems content sheeping this reasoning, so I have to shoot it down so I can establish the townie base on which I can push my platform.
On January 05 2014 19:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you are mafia because the only post where you give any sort of reads is a post where you doubt all the players in the game. Including the blue claims, which means there must be more blues or your post is completely useless. If there are no more blues than the climed ones it cannot be possible that the claims are mafia. You are not trying to resolve this situation by asking the real blues to claim (which would solve the game since we have a mislynch), therefore your only real post in this game is completely bullshity.
You, yamato, are one of the most obvious town players there is on the planet. You have opinions as town, at least when the game is on D2 and there are two flips which one of them is mafia, and night actions to analyze. The only thing you can come up with is a bullshit theory about scum shooting their own and all the blues in the game fakeclaiming with no counter claims.
This is like the most obvioius mafia catch in the game.
I doubted the blue claims because instantly believing claims in a semi-open setup is pretty silly. I had not yet thought about any of them seriously when I posted at the start of the day. The reads I posted then were, as I said before, formed mostly overnight during the silent phase, and done hastily mostly as my own notes.
As you can see later on, I did consider the claims and came to the conclusion that of the three, I trusted you the least because of how you have been playing today and the unconfirmed nature of your claim. However, I also very clearly came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth lynching you today, rather that I should focus on the unconfirmed players.
Of those four, Slam is the towniest. Other people disagree, but he is obviously trying this game and appears to be thinking things through in a clear manner. I have explained this at length, so it's not worth discussing further, we are not lynching him today.
Kush is the next towniest. I had no read before today, but he's put in real effort today and actually seems to be thinking about my alignment. I don't think scum kush fights my lynch at all, let alone as hard as he has today.He simply has no reason to.
Between Hopeless/Coag, Coag is actually townier, but not by much. Both of them could definitely be mafia, but I feel like lynching Hopeless more. I'll explain my Hopeless read at length later on.
On January 05 2014 21:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: So this is what yamato is suggesting.
There are three blue claims. Me, Mr.SexyCake, and Sentinel can't all be mafia, so there are 2 scenarios he is considering:
1) Mr.CC and Sentinel are both fake-claiming and i am telling the truth. This can't possibly be true because that would mean there would be another blue claim and they would have shot their own scumbuddy. Town mislynched on D1 so instead of trying to mislynch on D2 they are giving town a mislynch by shooting their scumbuddy and instantly losing the game if someone claims blue on D2 (if someone claims we lynch one of Sent/CC or the blue claim - if the blue claim turns up blue, scum lose). This is ridiculosu to even consider.
2) I decided to fakeclaim parity cop 1h into the game instead of just not claiming. This makes no sense given that yamato knows how confident i am at my scumplay. Let's entertain a scenario that i did something very stupid (which i would never do) as mafia. The only reason i would do that as mafia is to assume there is no parity cop in the game - because one-one trade is ridiculous in a game where i can just mislynch 2 townies and win the game. There is no counter-claim. I have gained the town credit i was looking for. Good. What's my next move. I decide to buss my teammate thrawn by asking a vigilante to shoot him on N1. I already know there is no parity cop in the game because noone counter-claimed me, so the reasonable assumption is that there is a vigilante in the game. So i made a stupid and a risky claim that could end up in a 1-1 trade, when it worked, i make a stupid move that risks my scumbuddy being shot or lynched on D2 for town-credit i have already gained from my fake claim. In addition to all this stupidness thrawn, my scumbuddy, does not give me the town credit from my fake claim (which was the point of my scumteam in the first place) but instead attacks me and we go 1vs1 with him ensuring we pretty much tunnel each other on D2 - that will most likely end up in one of us getting lynched. So me, raynpelikoneet, did this as mafia, instead of... just lynching townies and playing scum as i normally do, by controlling the thread. Ridiculous.
Based purely on yamato even considering something this stupid he is mafia, 100%.
I've addressed the claim situation, you're taking this a bit far. You fakeclaim often as both alignments, I do not trust you at all in any situation involving claims.
On January 05 2014 22:38 Hopeless1der wrote: This post is from TL LXIII where BH tried to use an RNG lynch as his mayoral campaign.
On November 16 2013 08:58 Blazinghand wrote: Hey so before we go all pant-head here I will upgrade to sock-head and push for an RNG lynch
So here's what happens
1) you elect me mayor
2) I will lynch the guy via RNG as determined by this post (the one you're reading right now)'s post count modulo 31. Since so many people are posting at once on TL it's impossible for us to know what's going down. I've done this before. It works.
For RNG, this post will be used for generating a random lynch. The # in the upper left corner can be right-clicked and used to access the absolute TL post # for this post. That number mod 9 is the random lynch. 1 =Oats, 2 = rayn, etc, all the way up to 8 = holyflare and 0 = sloosh.
The reason we use the absolute TL post number is that posts are constantly being made, so the number is truly random. We turn it into a number 1-9 by taking that number mod 9. What is mod? effectively, it's the remainder after division. For example. 10 mod 9 = 1. 11 mod 9 = 2. 18 mod 9 = 0. 19 mod 9 = 1. and so on.
Basically, this generates a random number 1 through 9. I am in favor of the random lynch (though am somewhat interested in a policy lynch today as well-- TL does not do this enough. I will start off by voting for the random lynched based on THIS POST.
In this case, 1 = BC 2 = Mattchew 3 = Sharrant 4 = VE
and so on
all the way up to... 30 = BH 0 = Oatsmaster
(since a multiple of 31 modulo 31 is 0, not 31).
From that same game, here is yamato's reactions to NOT getting made mayor and being subsequently shot N1.
On November 18 2013 06:49 yamato77 wrote: Okay, so I've caught up to the lynch since I stopped reading yesterday due to going to my friend's birthday and then subsequently passing out for 12+ hours. FIRST and FOREMOST, I want to say that neither super nor VE have analyzed just about anyone in the game at all up to this point and yet people trusted their reads and analysis skills over mine (LOLOLOLOLOL). I should have been elected pardoner, mafia will 100% shoot me tonight.
hiss gg post
On November 18 2013 10:02 yamato77 wrote: I told you I was dead
idiots.
Also, yamato's general opinion of me, again from LXIII
On November 17 2013 02:32 yamato77 wrote:
On November 17 2013 02:31 Pandain wrote: Yamato if you're mayor I think you should lynch hopeless or BH. I think Storr is good becasue he is playing pretty weird and he is playing the newb card so much when he really shouldn't and it's becoming really disconcerting especially since he also ran for mayor.
Why hopeless?
I mean, he's always useless.
This is thin. Many people have used my extremely good town games against me when I have a slow start. I don't always play the same and I don't always have the time to devote to being super town. I know the difference between when I've been playing well and look townie and a game like this where I am under fire most of the time. Look at D1 of Thug Life, for an example of a town game similar to this one.
As for my opinion of you, yes, you are often useless, HOWEVER, you are tunneling me blindly on ridiculously thin grounds based on ONE GAME of meta. You are not this bad of a town player. Plus, as was pointed out by Kush, you were fishy with your opinion of gumshoe D1 and have also sheeped Rayn hard today in calling me mafia, which is a sharp turn away from your early posts where you say I deserve time. It just doesn't add up unless you are mafia.
On January 05 2014 22:52 Hopeless1der wrote: If you have time, or happen to remember LXIII, yamato is absolutely capable of providing a compelling and eloquent argument. He has multiple large posts that arent simply a summary they are brief analyses of players that demonstrate critical thought and scrutiny. In this game, his list posts are lacking in this regard.
I especially have a problem with the fact that he has a documented history of thinking I'm generally useless and has found sufficient reasoning in "my filter" to say I should be lynched with fire.
As rayn already noted, Yamato has been trying to cast doubt on the blueclaims
On January 05 2014 17:29 yamato77 wrote: This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed.
There are no counterclaims, that is evidence by itself. Unless yamato is counterclaiming (and he hasnt to my knowledge) then the simple answer is that all the night action claims are legit. Rayn's needs to be scrutinized at this point, but imo his claim also checks out. Ergo 3 confirmed town for the sake of limiting our scope of analysis unless there are counterclaims.
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
Where does yamato fall on this list of townliness? No one else thinks its strange that he doesn't consider himself a viable shot? Especially after the points I pulled from LXIII about him knowing he was about to die before he was shot?
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
This is unnecessary fluff
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
coag, kush, hopeless as possible mafia. convenient that slams missing. I guess he's being readable this game and the 3 of us aren't? You don't need to be scummy to be mafia in yamato's game, you just need to be lurk or troll and that is sufficient.
.
I had explained my read on Slam multiple times by now, so that is not a point against me. You other three are the only other players worth looking at today, and I've talked about that at length earlier in this post.
Does anyone else feel the need for me to respond to anything else? If not, I'll be working through exactly why Hopeless is mafia in a subsequent post.
Quick exercise for you guys. Click Yamato's "all filter" (this link) and ctrl+f "slam". Verify the red/bolded section of this post. Especially look for the points that might be an explanation, and especially that might fit the criteria MULTIPLE TIMES BY NOW. (at the time of this post there are 9 instances of "slam" in yamato's filter. 3 of which are quoted from other players, 1 of which is him quoting himself.
Quoting this because it is what is making me strongly consider voting Yamato.
As for what you say with regard to my wanting stuff to happen, Hopeless, yes I did want things to start. And RNG can come from town. I am saying coupled with general inactivity and stating some obvious things, the RNG lynch is manipulable enough to make you scummier in my eyes.
However, if Yamato actually never said why I am town and stuff, and doesn't want to elaborate on it but wants to look like he has?
Scum knowledge + me not playing my usual playstyle at all = Yamato call me town for no reason. Looks good in the event I would flip.
Problem: I haven't really been up for a real lynch yet. I have been voted but why should scum Yamato push me as townie?-
Wait
If I can be lylo low hanging fruit. Would be very a la LXIII.
But there is WIFOM. I would hope it can be believed he could just actually believe all this- hence I would actually be getting better.
On January 06 2014 06:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: if you don't think he's lying then shut up about it could be a fakeclaim. It literally does nothing but make me want to lynch you.
You're all retarded. You're making this a big deal. It COULD be a fakeclaim, but AT THE MOMENT, I DON'T THINK IT IS. However, I AM NOT GOING TO CONSIDER HIM CONFIRMED TOWN just because of his cop claim. I'm done talking about it, all of you have literally zero reason to call me mafia for playing the game ignorant of stupid Rayn claims.
My claims arew never stupid and i am policy lynching you for this in addition to all scummy things.
Don't be a child. Read my posts seriously.
Even with my newly raised suspicions I have to point out my +1 to this. Not that the claim was stupid (I see no ill result) but to emo plynch is not grounds for anyone but you.
On January 06 2014 02:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato is at L-1. If he flips green then I want hopeless to die. Because fuck 2 mafia being inside kush/coag/slam--that's just cruel by BH.
i'd agree to this, except we'd lose the game.
I meant to say "yeah Mr.Sexycake I'll gladly die to see yamato burn. You can even lynch me first!"
You didn't even address my case in full, nor do I particularly care that you picked one sentence in my post to criticize. Martyring by you now is a little dramatic.
On January 06 2014 13:28 Hopeless1der wrote: If you guys still want to lynch me, fuck it, I'll hammer myself .
On January 06 2014 02:43 Hopeless1der wrote:
On January 06 2014 02:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato is at L-1. If he flips green then I want hopeless to die. Because fuck 2 mafia being inside kush/coag/slam--that's just cruel by BH.
i'd agree to this, except we'd lose the game.
I meant to say "yeah Mr.Sexycake I'll gladly die to see yamato burn. You can even lynch me first!"
You didn't even address my case in full, nor do I particularly care that you picked one sentence in my post to criticize. Martyring by you now is a little dramatic.
On January 05 2014 17:59 kushm4sta wrote: like he's being clear but not about finding scum
Honestly, I came into the game expecting to not even understand him. It's enough for me that he's readable and that I can follow his thoughts. I'm not lynching him.
On January 06 2014 14:35 Alakaslam wrote: Dat first quote
"Is playing better than anyone else in the game"
Do you remember what that spec-
...
-specifically referred to, if I may ask without looking like a narcissistic pomp?
Your day 1 was:
1) Super active.
2) Had a clear push to it.
The only thing I can fault you for is that you never really explained why you wanted to lynch gumshoe very well.
1) And achieved what? 2) A stupid push on me.
Who cares what anyone did on D1? If you are going to find mafia based on D1 activity the scum are you and kush.
He asked a specific question about a read I made off of information from D1. This is just silly tunneling, rayn.
Let me get this straight. You have said your meta read on both of Hopeless & Alakaslam is that they are useless. On D1, both of them played exactly the same.
- Slam talked about lurker lynch, Hopeless talked about random lynch. - In the end both voted for gumshoe after "soft-defending him" (if you wanna call it that).
Now, how the fuck can one of them be totally town and the other one totally scum?
And then there is kushmasta. What just happened was that i destroyed all his reads because he didn't actyually have any reads because they were either bullshit or based on false pretenses.
So yeah, if yamato and kush are not mafia i dunno what the fuck is going on in this game.
On January 06 2014 14:35 Alakaslam wrote: Dat first quote
"Is playing better than anyone else in the game"
Do you remember what that spec-
...
-specifically referred to, if I may ask without looking like a narcissistic pomp?
Your day 1 was:
1) Super active.
2) Had a clear push to it.
The only thing I can fault you for is that you never really explained why you wanted to lynch gumshoe very well.
1) And achieved what? 2) A stupid push on me.
Who cares what anyone did on D1? If you are going to find mafia based on D1 activity the scum are you and kush.
He asked a specific question about a read I made off of information from D1. This is just silly tunneling, rayn.
Let me get this straight. You have said your meta read on both of Hopeless & Alakaslam is that they are useless. On D1, both of them played exactly the same.
- Slam talked about lurker lynch, Hopeless talked about random lynch. - In the end both voted for gumshoe after "soft-defending him" (if you wanna call it that).
Now, how the fuck can one of them be totally town and the other one totally scum?
The difference in play between Hopeless and Slam is not as small as you seem to say it is here, that's a bit of a faulty equivocation.
On January 06 2014 15:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: So can you point out what the differences are then? Because i do not see it. Also you still didn't answer, who is the other scum?
On January 06 2014 15:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: So can you point out what the differences are then? Because i do not see it. Also you still didn't answer, who is the other scum?
On January 06 2014 15:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: And then there is kushmasta. What just happened was that i destroyed all his reads because he didn't actyually have any reads because they were either bullshit or based on false pretenses.
So yeah, if yamato and kush are not mafia i dunno what the fuck is going on in this game.
On January 07 2014 00:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Can we all agree to lynch Coag? Like wtf why is he town so sad.
Possibly- why is he scum?
Done nothing all game, is coag. policy coag.
I am pretty sure of my hopeless read. If too many people think he is town I will submit to a Coag lynch but I just think he is too hard to read to form an opinion myself.
On January 04 2014 10:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hopeless is being reckless. Regardless of gumshoe's alignment townies are more likely to be eager to jump on lynches early on in the game where there is a majority lynch. Hopeless had a randomlynch for himelsf to hide behind if he didn't want to gather attention for hopping on to gumshoe wagon. I think it's more likely as mafia he would stay more neutral and promote more discussion before switching his vote onto gumshoe with literally no reasons given.
I don't get you here. You say hopeless is setting himself up to potentially hide behind a random lynch and you think that is reckless in a townie way?
I disagree that this clears hopeless, because the real intent of thrawn's post is to attack rayn. Thrawn doesn't pay attention to hopeless himself at all.
On January 07 2014 01:45 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: kush why dont you want to lynch yamato
good question. I don't have a great reason actually. Sadly it's mostly an anti-connection theory that popped into my head when I saw hopeless lunge at him. Also I think the way he opposed confirming the claims as town was dumb but I doubt scum would do it like that.
The reason i like hopeless lynch, besides previously stated junk, is that both hopeless and coag were on the gum wagon for jack reasoning. If it's yamato + kush / slam then 0 maf were behind the d1 mislynch
On January 07 2014 01:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: The reason i like hopeless lynch, besides previously stated junk, is that both hopeless and coag were on the gum wagon for jack reasoning. If it's yamato + kush / slam then 0 maf were behind the d1 mislynch
On January 07 2014 01:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: The reason i like hopeless lynch, besides previously stated junk, is that both hopeless and coag were on the gum wagon for jack reasoning. If it's yamato + kush / slam then 0 maf were behind the d1 mislynch
slam was also on the gum lynch also for jack reasoning
On January 07 2014 01:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: The reason i like hopeless lynch, besides previously stated junk, is that both hopeless and coag were on the gum wagon for jack reasoning. If it's yamato + kush / slam then 0 maf were behind the d1 mislynch
On January 07 2014 01:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: The reason i like hopeless lynch, besides previously stated junk, is that both hopeless and coag were on the gum wagon for jack reasoning. If it's yamato + kush / slam then 0 maf were behind the d1 mislynch
slam was also on the gum lynch also for jack reasoning
On January 07 2014 01:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: The reason i like hopeless lynch, besides previously stated junk, is that both hopeless and coag were on the gum wagon for jack reasoning. If it's yamato + kush / slam then 0 maf were behind the d1 mislynch
slam was also on the gum lynch also for jack reasoning
except slam is super town
WHY... I have not read anything that has convinced me of this in the slightest.
On January 04 2014 10:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he does not think i am mafia i have no reason to lie about why i claimed in the first place, which i stated was not because of pressure. Either way he is bullshitting.
I'll be honest, I didnt read very closely the first time around. gumshoe is a good lynch. but, BETTER THAN RNG? I DUNNO.
On January 04 2014 10:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: The point i am trying to make is that gumshoe made these posts:
On January 04 2014 09:15 gumshoe wrote:
On January 04 2014 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 04 2014 08:53 gumshoe wrote:
On January 04 2014 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you do want to policy lynch me for claiming without thinking about my alignment?
I'll say this now, I dont think you were under enough pressure as scum to gamble on a hail marry claim(and its likely youd be lynched in case of a counterclaim anyways) but I feel youve made a mistake as town ) :
If i do not lynch mafia on D1 then i have definitely made a mistake but in my opinion this gives me much higher chances of lynching scum. I don't have to worry about people worrying about me. As i said me being parity cop is same as me being vanilla. I get a first scum check at best on D3. In my opinion at that point of the game there should be 2 mafia dead already. If there is not i am doing something wrong. If i am alive on D3 i am doing something wrong. Therefore me being a parity cop has no upsides besides the fact that if i claim it people can actually trust me and trust my thoughts to have a townie agenda without thinking about the possible scum motivations behind them.
If your plan was to reveal from so early on, why did you wait until you came under fire to reveal? You used your role like a mothership recall after a hatchery snipe XD that doesnt strike me as transparent or townie, also your plan doesnt allow much for error / : what if we lynch one scum and one townie( Which very well may have happened considering you were just trying to lynch me) then that parity cop comes pretty damm in handy. But whateves, like I said not much to do if theres no other claim, but I still find your play rather wasteful, and oddly enough equal parts cynical and optimistic.
On January 04 2014 09:22 gumshoe wrote:
On January 04 2014 09:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe do you think i feel pressured regardless of what anyone says about me 2h into the game as mafia?
You didn't announce your role until after people started questioning you, so obviously it was a response to pressure. Are you scum? No, thats not at all likely unless a counter claim comes so your right, no point talking bout it.
Im heading to a friends now, looking forward to peoples reactions when I come back, later all.
This makes absolutely no sense because he states here my mafia motivation for claiming would be because i was under pressure. That can't possibly be true in his opinion because the only one who at that point had accused me of anything was yamato. gumshoe himself agreed with me and turned against yamato for his pressure on me. There is no way gumshoe should be thinking i feel pressured about yamato's accusation because in the first place he himself thinks the accusation is bullshit.
This is what "changed my mind" about gumshoe. Accusing rayn of waiting until he was "under fire" and "reacting to pressure" to claim parity cop. I had only skimmed his posts and understood he couldn't understand why rayn claimed the way he did. When I actually sat down and read things through, I thought it was scummy.
Also, who actually thought an RNG lynch would get pushed? i did that for the hell of it because Slam wanted things to happen
On January 04 2014 07:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: gumshoe if you were mafia what would you be talking with your scumbuddies in the scum QT atm?
Dude I feel like I could ask everyone this right now.
I mean, it is stupid to say it's scummy to agree with me, but hopeless & Coag been pretty short & simple posts that are noncommittal in nature. We all saw posting requirements are aggressive; so let's post something to say!
On January 04 2014 12:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also you think there could be a mafia motivation behind me claiming, but you won't elaborate on why. All you have to say is "sayn has fakecalimed as scum before, therefore he could be fakeclaiming now". That's really fishy thrawn. Why are you refusing to give your reasoning?
Here's the deal, I'm done talking about your claim for right now, so make what you will of it. Yes, I am straight up refusing to talk to you about this and you're just gonna have to deal with it.
so this exchange makes rayn look pretty solid town imo
[UoN]Sentinel is vig obv town
Yamato is playing piss poor and im leaning scum on him. Hes using pretty shit logic like
On January 05 2014 05:33 yamato77 wrote: You would not lynch me before coag or kush in a game like this, don't be silly.
alakaslam has been lurker hunting the entire game and thats a red flag. scum like to focus on lurker discussion a lot. gonna fos on slam. likely scum.
Kush looks town to me so far. but that aint worth shit cause hes unreadable.
Mr. Cheesecake is vet. gonna assume its legit.
Hopeless1der sorta got a scum vibe but dunno. mostly null
and of course these reads come with the
On January 06 2014 09:01 yamato77 wrote: Wanna lynch hopeless, coag/kush?
On January 06 2014 09:06 Coagulation wrote: I can get behind that. Lemme double check his filter
On January 06 2014 23:25 Coagulation wrote: ##vote hopeless
If you look at coag's post, it's like he says complete bullshit for everyone else then has this amazing kernel of wisdom of alaka that you would have to have read the game to know.
On January 07 2014 03:38 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: ofc i waver back and forth, im town and dont have information.
What concerns have I not addressed? Do you really need me to name a second scum to believe my posts thus far? I Think town is ignoring a lot of good analysis in my posts in favor of silly connection theories.
yamato you haven't followed up with any question you have ever asked from anyone in this game. You are not even interested in the answers. Also you were really demoralized when thrawn flipped. When a vigilante shoots scum on N1 townies usually go "yay, good job!", not like you did "god i hate claim games".
yamato is the most fucking obvious town player when he is town. Either he does not give a shit about the game to notice simple things like you + Sentinel having to be town after N1 or he is scum.
- Then he does not notice Coagulation's inconsistancies after he himself asked about them from Coag. - Then he does not call kush out for kush's bullshit reads which i have pointed out. - Then he calls Hopeless mafia and Alakaslam town because both are usually useless and both did exactly same shit on D1.
The point is, every single one of our "unconfirmeds" (slam/kush/yamato/coag) thinks Hopeless is mafia. It should already be an indication that he is town.
The fact is Hopeless cannot be scum because everyone who is not confirmed thinks he is mafia and it does not make any sense. I suggest you find real scum if you are town.
On January 07 2014 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: The fact is Hopeless cannot be scum because everyone who is not confirmed thinks he is mafia and it does not make any sense. I suggest you find real scum if you are town.
On January 07 2014 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: The fact is Hopeless cannot be scum because everyone who is not confirmed thinks he is mafia and it does not make any sense. I suggest you find real scum if you are town.
On January 07 2014 04:35 yamato77 wrote: If you are town, you've done the worst thing you could do today in accusing me on such flimsy grounds as a single game of "meta".
sentinel listed 3 more + a scum one
On January 04 2014 11:40 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I don't think rayn impulsively voting has anything to do with his alignment. He took his sweet time in LXII when I was scum with him.
Plus, you haven't even addressed all the points I made in my case against you. I've answered all accusations leveled against me thus far that are not recent Rayn farces. And I'm about to shoot those down, too.
Mostly, I could believe it because of how useless thrawn is as mafia and how town still only has 2 mislynches to work with. But that's neither here nor there, because I don't think you are mafia.
On January 07 2014 04:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato, why is sentinel ONLY confirmed because you believe me? A fucking mafia died. Vig.
Like I said, you could both be lying and be mafia who planned a shot on thrawn. It's unlikely, but POSSIBLE.
No it's not. There are no CC's, and that would leave town with only 1 blue.
CCs are not a great way to verify claims, IMO, but this discussion is pointless.
I don't like how Sentinel is playing, he's accused me badly, but I'm ignoring it because I don't have any strong reason to doubt his claim. End of story.
On January 07 2014 04:45 yamato77 wrote: "Big post meta"
Yeah, that's a good heuristic.
Like I said before, Sentinel is basically only confirmed because I believe CC is town and telling the truth.
You don't think he is mafia yet are casting his argument aside because he is "only confirmed because of this".
No, because the timing of big posts is not any indication of my alignment. It's a terrible heuristic.
its not the timing, its the content. your big posts didnt attempt to solve anything in the game or layout a gameplan for going forward. your list post was a joke. your case on me is of a similar caliber to mine on you, except there is no precedent for why I'm scummy in the context of your case. You list off some marginally scummy things that in the context of day1 are not good enough to tout me as omfg scum must lynch nao.
On January 07 2014 03:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: yamato you haven't followed up with any question you have ever asked from anyone in this game. You are not even interested in the answers. Also you were really demoralized when thrawn flipped. When a vigilante shoots scum on N1 townies usually go "yay, good job!", not like you did "god i hate claim games".
What questions have I asked that I have not followed up on?
How was I demoralized when thrawn flipped? THE FIRST POST I MADE SAID I WAS GLAD I WAS RIGHT ABOUT HIM!
I do hate claim games, for the record. In forum mafia, these situations lead to really narrow reasoning and almost always devolve the game as they have done to this one into trying to pick two mafia from a small group of players.
On January 07 2014 03:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: yamato is the most fucking obvious town player when he is town. Either he does not give a shit about the game to notice simple things like you + Sentinel having to be town after N1 or he is scum.
He is scum.
You have read nothing I've posted on the claim matter if you are still talking about this. READ MY POSTS.
On January 07 2014 03:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: - Then he does not notice Coagulation's inconsistancies after he himself asked about them from Coag. - Then he does not call kush out for kush's bullshit reads which i have pointed out. - Then he calls Hopeless mafia and Alakaslam town because both are usually useless and both did exactly same shit on D1.
1) I don't remember asking Coag anything.
2) I don't think kush's reads are bullshit. Me disagreeing with you does not make me mafia.
3) Hopeless and Slam ARE NOT THE SAME!
Look at the case I made on Hopeless where I summarize his D1 and compare those posts to these:
On January 04 2014 08:27 Alakaslam wrote: Ok everything essentially just became a food fight from my perspective.
At first I was thinking Rayne and Gumshoe scum, because seeing the layout concerns Rayne pointed out coupled with gumeshoe's post implying what I am doing is usually seen as scummy in reply to him, it looked like something to be able to lynch LHF with no recompense.
Then, after they talk a bit, I see Rayne going after gumshoe for said post and I'm like "well they certainly aren't scum together" and then Yamato77 wildly says between them he would go after Rayne!
Then gumshoe explains himself to Rayne and it makes sense- my how my reads fly -_-
This makes me ask, what are people's thoughts about hopeless and I rng'ing Kush? He has said nothing, and we are what, a couple hours into the game? I mean seriously, are we wrong/scummy or vote with us? Or what in between?
On January 04 2014 08:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay let's get this shit fully going on. Here's something to consider. I am going to die on N1 or N2 at last. If i do not i have somehow failed in this game and played under my standards.
I really do want to lynch mafia on D1, therefore i won't allow people i work well with to discredit me in case they are scum. I am a Parity Cop. My role is useless, for me, as i said before. What i want to is people (especially yamato and thrawn who i know to be strong and work well with if they are town) to work with me without a doubt in their mind about my alignment.
Now let's lynch mafia shall we?
K look there are huge problems with this, I could actually totes lynch you with Yamato on this alone.
If you are actually blue you just gave up that power's usefulness and if you are scum, the real cop can't counterclaim you without outing himself to you.
Most will know this and therefore that it is essentially WIFOM, also I think YOU know better enough to know all that.
On January 04 2014 08:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: So you do want to policy lynch me for claiming without thinking about my alignment?
I'll say this now, I dont think you were under enough pressure as scum to gamble on a hail marry claim(and its likely youd be lynched in case of a counterclaim anyways) but I feel youve made a mistake as town ) :
If i do not lynch mafia on D1 then i have definitely made a mistake but in my opinion this gives me much higher chances of lynching scum. I don't have to worry about people worrying about me. As i said me being parity cop is same as me being vanilla. I get a first scum check at best on D3. In my opinion at that point of the game there should be 2 mafia dead already. If there is not i am doing something wrong. If i am alive on D3 i am doing something wrong. Therefore me being a parity cop has no upsides besides the fact that if i claim it people can actually trust me and trust my thoughts to have a townie agenda without thinking about the possible scum motivations behind them.
Dude.
I mean yes I could see how the role is pretty useless then and probably not worth scum's time to fish out. But if you are scum? You just gave yourself the key to ultimate Svengali play, and a free day worth of survival if not more assuming you are believed!
It doesn't accomplish the trust you need man, it makes stuff worse.
But really, it would be super ballsy scum play. Counterclaiming would decrease chances of a mislynch to 50%!
On January 04 2014 09:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: One more post about discussing this without explaining why i am scum and i am policy lynching you Slam.
yeah, this is why I'm lynching you. You are refusing to see what I'm saying. You are scum because you are 1: Blue Hunting 2: Fakeclaiming 3: bullying anyone who opposes you and using it as grounds to mislynch
On January 04 2014 09:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay so Slam is town but just very stupid.
Nice discredit explain? How on earth I what you are doing any better than the biggest WIFOM bomb I have ever seen plus a ton of Svengali? Why on earth should town believe your claim even if the parity cop role is so useless? I will even answer that- because it wouldn't be worth the risk to make suh a fakeclaim as scum. But the problem with that is it is like combining a bus with blue hunting, and you can count on town arriving at that same conclusion anyway!
On January 04 2014 10:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: a counterclaim nets us 1 mafia guarenteed, not a scummy play. Cant let a fakeclaim go un cc'd anyway.
sent there are reasons gum looks bad and thats not one of them. i domt see how rayn is mafia fakeclaiming cop without a cc, and i hv no reason to distrust in that. fuck parity cop, esp with potential gf
On January 04 2014 11:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: thrawn why would i claim parity cop as mafia instead of just.. you know, not claiming?
These, plus looking at setup as scum would see it (losing one scum today versus a mislynch makes the game a lot harder for them) make me think if there is a cop, should counter claim, and Rayne probably confirmed town versus otherwise.
Another reason I think so now is I was literally going through why I thought an early claim like that is so bad as either alignment that coming from Rayne it just reeks of scum, and he thought I was being wishy-washy and almost like he couldn't conceive how it was scummy- which I took as even scummier, but a look back, as town he would say the same stuff- you do something SPECIFICALLY to get people to work with you and first thing, this guy comes up and calls it WIFOM over and over and scummy, and you know in the setup scum don't do that etc. etc.
Unvoting.
Slam looks like he's actually trying to figure out people's alignment, and Hopeless just looks like he's trying to figure out where to place his vote.
On January 07 2014 04:45 yamato77 wrote: "Big post meta"
Yeah, that's a good heuristic.
Like I said before, Sentinel is basically only confirmed because I believe CC is town and telling the truth.
You don't think he is mafia yet are casting his argument aside because he is "only confirmed because of this".
No, because the timing of big posts is not any indication of my alignment. It's a terrible heuristic.
its not the timing, its the content. your big posts didnt attempt to solve anything in the game or layout a gameplan for going forward. your list post was a joke. your case on me is of a similar caliber to mine on you, except there is no precedent for why I'm scummy in the context of your case. You list off some marginally scummy things that in the context of day1 are not good enough to tout me as omfg scum must lynch nao.
The list post was hastily made during the night mostly as a way for me to summarize my feelings about D1 and start D2 with some footing in the game. It was not meant as some exposition of my thoughts on the game.
My case on you encompasses YOUR ACTUAL PLAY THIS GAME, instead of trying to say that I should play EXACTLY how I played in LXIII or I'm mafia. The two are incomparable. I also quote your play D2 and state that this flimsy logic is indicative of you being mafia. You're not even reading the case.
I also sorted out my thoughts on the claim situation, and have addressed every accusation leveled against me in the game. My big posts are clear, and consistent. It has nothing to do with meta, and everything to do with being town trying to figure the fucking game out. Do you think I, as mafia, come into D2 trying to doubt confirmed town? No, I already know the claims are true because I KNOW MAFIA'S NIGHT ACTIONS.
This filter destroys any argument about me always being obvious townie with multiple big posts D1. I got lynched D1 this game. Stop using it as a reason to call me mafia, it is not valid whatsoever.
On January 07 2014 04:45 yamato77 wrote: "Big post meta"
Yeah, that's a good heuristic.
Like I said before, Sentinel is basically only confirmed because I believe CC is town and telling the truth.
You don't think he is mafia yet are casting his argument aside because he is "only confirmed because of this".
No, because the timing of big posts is not any indication of my alignment. It's a terrible heuristic.
its not the timing, its the content. your big posts didnt attempt to solve anything in the game or layout a gameplan for going forward. your list post was a joke. your case on me is of a similar caliber to mine on you, except there is no precedent for why I'm scummy in the context of your case. You list off some marginally scummy things that in the context of day1 are not good enough to tout me as omfg scum must lynch nao.
This. I don't believe I made it clear enough in the original accusation - they were big posts that pretty much told town "here's what we need to focus on", explicitly asked people questions so that they would put out their thoughts for everyone to see, and pretty much removed any confusion by whatever way. That commanding stance is what makes it so scary to play against yam as scum - you have to play by his rules or else he'll put you under heavy pressure.
As evidenced by Hopeless's post as well as the quoted material, yamato's case isn't flawless, it's made while he's under pressure instead of the other way around. The instances he did mention slam are short. Simply, "he's clear", "he's clearer than I've ever seen him play", "I can actually understand him". It's not much. He was pretty coherent in Titanic II as well, less so because he spent the game talking to Chezinu in a QT.
I can understand yam's tunneling of Hopeless because he does that all the time. But faulty logic/reasoning is inexcusable for him.
On January 07 2014 04:45 yamato77 wrote: "Big post meta"
Yeah, that's a good heuristic.
Like I said before, Sentinel is basically only confirmed because I believe CC is town and telling the truth.
You don't think he is mafia yet are casting his argument aside because he is "only confirmed because of this".
No, because the timing of big posts is not any indication of my alignment. It's a terrible heuristic.
its not the timing, its the content. your big posts didnt attempt to solve anything in the game or layout a gameplan for going forward. your list post was a joke. your case on me is of a similar caliber to mine on you, except there is no precedent for why I'm scummy in the context of your case. You list off some marginally scummy things that in the context of day1 are not good enough to tout me as omfg scum must lynch nao.
This. I don't believe I made it clear enough in the original accusation - they were big posts that pretty much told town "here's what we need to focus on", explicitly asked people questions so that they would put out their thoughts for everyone to see, and pretty much removed any confusion by whatever way. That commanding stance is what makes it so scary to play against yam as scum - you have to play by his rules or else he'll put you under heavy pressure.
As evidenced by Hopeless's post as well as the quoted material, yamato's case isn't flawless, it's made while he's under pressure instead of the other way around. The instances he did mention slam are short. Simply, "he's clear", "he's clearer than I've ever seen him play", "I can actually understand him". It's not much. He was pretty coherent in Titanic II as well, less so because he spent the game talking to Chezinu in a QT.
I can understand yam's tunneling of Hopeless because he does that all the time. But faulty logic/reasoning is inexcusable for him.
On January 07 2014 06:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: yam why do you not think kush's reads are bullshit?
Mostly because it looks like there's uncertainty in them, which I think is a townie trait. Too much certainty = scum kush. He might be WRONG, but that doesn't mean that it's BULLSHIT.
On January 07 2014 06:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: yam why do you not think kush's reads are bullshit?
Mostly because it looks like there's uncertainty in them, which I think is a townie trait. Too much certainty = scum kush. He might be WRONG, but that doesn't mean that it's BULLSHIT.
Wrong can be scummy too, especially in his big post. I refuse to believe Kush would try to read everyone, label everyone as scum (except for you for the shoddiest reasoning ever, and because he ran out of red labels), and decide to keep that post in there to clog up the thread and influence his subsequent reads.
On January 07 2014 06:16 kushm4sta wrote: What reads are bullshit sent? yOu have an example or something?
On January 05 2014 13:18 kushm4sta wrote: So here are the unknown right now:
alakaslam: Well his early game is way more try hard than the towngame I just played with him recently. Then his activity falls off, which is a pretty good scumtell in itself usually, especially when there is no excuse to explain it. Overall his activity points fits with what I perceive his scumgame to look like. Then there is this post:
On January 04 2014 09:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: One more post about discussing this without explaining why i am scum and i am policy lynching you Slam.
yeah, this is why I'm lynching you. You are refusing to see what I'm saying. You are scum because you are 1: Blue Hunting 2: Fakeclaiming 3: bullying anyone who opposes you and using it as grounds to mislynch
like wut...blue hunting?! @Alaka I want to know how rayne was blue hunting. Also I have no idea why you would jump to the conclusion that rayne was fakeclaiming, since he gave a decent explanation for why he claimed and claiming as scum would be pretty suicidal. Scummers love to accuse townies of blue hunting. I feel like i see it all the time. conclusion: SCUM
~~~~~~
hopeless His position on gumshoe throughout d1 makes no sense. First he soft defends him.
On January 04 2014 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure gumshoe is mafia. Nothing he says is making sense atm.
no, but you did just claim cop for questionable reasons.
And that has to do with anything how? Are you discrediting me or are you calling me scum or are you agreeing with me? What exactly are you saying here?
im saying gumshoe not making sense could be because hes confused, not necessarily mafia. You're totes town
On January 04 2014 10:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he does not think i am mafia i have no reason to lie about why i claimed in the first place, which i stated was not because of pressure. Either way he is bullshitting.
I'll be honest, I didnt read very closely the first time around. gumshoe is a good lynch. but, BETTER THAN RNG? I DUNNO.
Suddenly Gumshoe is a good lynch for no reason other than he didn't read before. I would expect a townie hopeless to have like a sentence explaining what aspect of the argument convinced him.
Otherwise there has been a total lack of content from hopeless. He's done some mechanics posts and some troll posts, but his scumhunting is practically non existent. I remember his towngame as having a similar length filter but being more focused on logical scumhunting.
Conclusion: SCUM
coag There is no amount of effort shown this game, which leans scummy to me. It seems like in his town games, he makes an effort to show you he is town. He doesn't do that at all here.
On January 07 2014 06:19 kushm4sta wrote: yup they are all possible scum lol
So why not go back and check your reads? If you get scum for all of them except for yamato whose "suspicion doesn't look like a bus", why not go back and see what you're doing wrong? Maybe consider the possibility of each one being town and go from there?
On January 07 2014 06:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: yam why do you not think kush's reads are bullshit?
Mostly because it looks like there's uncertainty in them, which I think is a townie trait. Too much certainty = scum kush. He might be WRONG, but that doesn't mean that it's BULLSHIT.
Wrong can be scummy too, especially in his big post. I refuse to believe Kush would try to read everyone, label everyone as scum (except for you for the shoddiest reasoning ever, and because he ran out of red labels), and decide to keep that post in there to clog up the thread and influence his subsequent reads.
The big post is not the only post he's made this game, you know.
On January 05 2014 18:25 kushm4sta wrote: coag is actually super town for realizing this. coag:
alakaslam has been lurker hunting the entire game and thats a red flag. scum like to focus on lurker discussion a lot. gonna fos on slam. likely scum.
this is dead on
Is this your main reason for suspicion on slam?
well I can add as a follow up to that fos alaska slam responded with a "would you rather me troll??" wich is probably the most scummiest response he could of come up with. its loosely translated to something like.
"hey guys I know I cant scum hunt properly cause im scum but I could of just taken a giant shit in thread instead of being useless so I should be given a free pass for being useless"
On January 07 2014 06:34 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: One thing I'm not understanding kush:
On January 05 2014 18:25 kushm4sta wrote: coag is actually super town for realizing this. coag:
alakaslam has been lurker hunting the entire game and thats a red flag. scum like to focus on lurker discussion a lot. gonna fos on slam. likely scum.
this is dead on
Is this your main reason for suspicion on slam?
well I can add as a follow up to that fos alaska slam responded with a "would you rather me troll??" wich is probably the most scummiest response he could of come up with. its loosely translated to something like.
"hey guys I know I cant scum hunt properly cause im scum but I could of just taken a giant shit in thread instead of being useless so I should be given a free pass for being useless"
I dont think thats a town mentality at all.
Except he obviously isn't just lurker hunting. I quoted a bunch of posts where he did anything but that.
You're actually the one doing almost no scum hunting.
My original accusation (yamato =\= a viable nk target) has not been sufficiently resolved. I refuse to believe that a player who ran for mayor and almost won in a large game would come to a mini and legitimately be scared that scum would find it easier to push his mislynch than to shoot him.
On January 07 2014 07:36 Hopeless1der wrote: My original accusation (yamato =\= a viable nk target) has not been sufficiently resolved. I refuse to believe that a player who ran for mayor and almost won in a large game would come to a mini and legitimately be scared that scum would find it easier to push his mislynch than to shoot him.
THIS DAY PROVES MY POINT
Jesus. It's not even an argument. People ACTUALLY THINK I'm mafia. Why would scum NK me?
On January 07 2014 07:36 Hopeless1der wrote: My original accusation (yamato =\= a viable nk target) has not been sufficiently resolved. I refuse to believe that a player who ran for mayor and almost won in a large game would come to a mini and legitimately be scared that scum would find it easier to push his mislynch than to shoot him.
THIS DAY PROVES MY POINT
Jesus. It's not even an argument. People ACTUALLY THINK I'm mafia. Why would scum NK me?
You made the post I'm referring to before anyone really thought you were scum. I'd also like to point out that I was the first one to cast any real doubt on Yamato since his large 'catchup post'. Rayn actually fleshed out the arguments, but like I also mentioned I happened to wake up at 5am, skimmed the thread, posted, then went back to sleep. So for anyone pulling the 'oh hopeless is just sheeping rayn', no I'm not.
On January 07 2014 07:36 Hopeless1der wrote: My original accusation (yamato =\= a viable nk target) has not been sufficiently resolved. I refuse to believe that a player who ran for mayor and almost won in a large game would come to a mini and legitimately be scared that scum would find it easier to push his mislynch than to shoot him.
THIS DAY PROVES MY POINT
Jesus. It's not even an argument. People ACTUALLY THINK I'm mafia. Why would scum NK me?
You made the post I'm referring to before anyone really thought you were scum. I'd also like to point out that I was the first one to cast any real doubt on Yamato since his large 'catchup post'. Rayn actually fleshed out the arguments, but like I also mentioned I happened to wake up at 5am, skimmed the thread, posted, then went back to sleep. So for anyone pulling the 'oh hopeless is just sheeping rayn', no I'm not.
I was accused day 1 and barely played at all because of how short it was. THERE IS NO GOOD REASON FOR SCUM TO NK ME.
If you are town and that is your best argument, I am depressed.
On January 07 2014 08:02 Hopeless1der wrote: accused by who and in what capacity? Were you up for lynch? I dont think anyone was a good mislynch target going into day 2 except perhaps me.
On January 07 2014 08:02 Hopeless1der wrote: accused by who and in what capacity? Were you up for lynch? I dont think anyone was a good mislynch target going into day 2 except perhaps me.
People called me scum the whole day basically. Read the game.
On January 07 2014 08:02 Hopeless1der wrote: accused by who and in what capacity? Were you up for lynch? I dont think anyone was a good mislynch target going into day 2 except perhaps me.
And how exactly do you know WHO was a GOOD MISLYNCH... you don't know the alignment of anyone.
On January 07 2014 08:02 Hopeless1der wrote: accused by who and in what capacity? Were you up for lynch? I dont think anyone was a good mislynch target going into day 2 except perhaps me.
People called me scum the whole day basically. Read the game.
So why didnt you even make a cursory mention of the fact that scum didnt want to shoot you because players x,y,z might be convinced to lynch you?
On January 07 2014 08:02 Hopeless1der wrote: accused by who and in what capacity? Were you up for lynch? I dont think anyone was a good mislynch target going into day 2 except perhaps me.
People called me scum the whole day basically. Read the game.
So why didnt you even make a cursory mention of the fact that scum didnt want to shoot you because players x,y,z might be convinced to lynch you?
Because I wasn't talking about the NK, I was talking about how believable CC's claim was, which HAPPENED to include HIS viability as an NK choice in it. It had nothing to do with me.
On January 07 2014 08:02 Hopeless1der wrote: accused by who and in what capacity? Were you up for lynch? I dont think anyone was a good mislynch target going into day 2 except perhaps me.
And how exactly do you know WHO was a GOOD MISLYNCH... you don't know the alignment of anyone.
I know my alignment (town who looks scum-null), I now (think I) know your's, rayn's and sent's. That leaves coag (null) kush (null) slam (town-null) yamato (null). At best coag and me are the mislynch targets leading into today.
On January 07 2014 08:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Town don't think anyone is a good mislynch, that's so scum.
I mean...I know people have a tendency to call arguments shitty, but come on CC you're better than pulling the semantics card out on me right now. Yamato was arguing that scum wouldnt nk because he might be easy to mislynch. I don't buy that argument, not from yamato. from kush or slam? no problem. but not from yamato.
On January 07 2014 08:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Town don't think anyone is a good mislynch, that's so scum.
I mean...I know people have a tendency to call arguments shitty, but come on CC you're better than pulling the semantics card out on me right now. Yamato was arguing that scum wouldnt nk because he might be easy to mislynch. I don't buy that argument, not from yamato. from kush or slam? no problem. but not from yamato.
I thought me or rayn would be shot at night, 100%. I was suspicious of mafia, I didn't think mafia would kill him at all. So the arguement is bad.
On January 07 2014 08:02 Hopeless1der wrote: accused by who and in what capacity? Were you up for lynch? I dont think anyone was a good mislynch target going into day 2 except perhaps me.
You weren't even up for consideration.
Who WAS up for consideration at the start of Day 2?
On January 07 2014 08:02 Hopeless1der wrote: accused by who and in what capacity? Were you up for lynch? I dont think anyone was a good mislynch target going into day 2 except perhaps me.
You weren't even up for consideration.
Who WAS up for consideration at the start of Day 2?
1) Saying Hopeless was not trying to find mafia but instead tried to find a place to put his vote on:
On January 04 2014 08:10 yamato77 wrote: Between gumshoe and rayn, I would rather lynch rayn.
Hypocrite.
2) Saying "rayn's claim cannot be trusted because he has fakeclaimed multiple times as mafia. Totally incorrect. I have never fakeclaimed as mafia other than in Witchcraft - in a game where i literally had to claim something because if i was town i would be blue. Another guy did the same incorrect argument, yeah it was [red]thrawn.
3) Not realizing Hopeless has to be town because of what happened in D1 and on D2. Everyone who has a possibility to be scum are "sure" Hopeless is mafia. "Confirmed" townies said Hopeless is town and yamato is mafia. On D1 everyone followed me into a mislynch. Why not do that on D2? No, instead mafia decides to bus Hopeless and not lynch yamato, a player who is really good as town - when they can easily just join the "follow the rayn train" and not get accused of it later. Bullshit.
4) yamato is not realizing Slam/kush/Coag's really bad posts which are full of errors.
TLDR; yamato is not this bad and does not use incorrect logic as town. He can be farily inactive and post oneliner or whatever, but when he says something it makes sense. There is no good logic in his reads in this game.[/i]
On January 05 2014 05:00 yamato77 wrote: I'm glad to know I was right about thrawn. Will post the reads I hastily formed during the night phase shortly.
This is probably the most hilarious post in the thread. yamato di never say a singe word on thrawn D1. <3
Like seriously. If mafia does not mislynch today, we end up with 6-1.
Mafia needs to shoot 3 people, this night, next night, then no-lynch in MYLO. The basically have to shoot me, Sentinel and Cheesecake. That means, if yamato is town, that he will be alive in LYLO. Would you, as mafia, not lynch him now, when you have been given a perfectly fine chance of doing so?? Would you instead buss your scumbuddy Hopeless?
No fucking way, because after that your shots are decided - and you have to deal with town!yamato, who is, while now playing terribly, not guaranteed to not get his shit together until D5.
Again, no fucking way mafia did not lynch yamato / accuse him with me.
In case something happens, someone get hammered and i die on N2:
On January 07 2014 11:59 DarthPunk wrote: Hopeless1der (2) - Yamato77, Alakaslam, Alakaslam (2) - kushm4sta, Coagulation Yamato77 (4) - Hopeless1der, [UoN]Sentinel, Raynpelikoneet, Mr. Cheesecake
I am fairly certain there is one mafia in Alakaslam votes, especially if he is town. If yamato somehow flips town i would look into that pool - even consider both of them mafia. kush is extremely fishy with his reads. I pointed out the flaws in his reads on yamato, Coag and Slam, and he just went "you are right, i didn't read well enough". That's why i called all of his reads bullshit. Coagulation did that weird jump to Hopeless based on his scumreads statement, that's also suspicious.
I dunno what to think about Slam, he is just meh. While he is making sense in a way that his posts are readable that's a bullshit reason to call him town - just because he writes coherently does not make him town. If yamato is scum Slam has a fair chance of being his scumbuddy, yamato's reasoning for Slam being town is quite shitty.
I still think Hopeless is town, mainly because of his reckless attitude towards the lynch on D1 (compare to thrawn who was vary careful with his vote) and him being the target for all unconfirmeds on D2 + his "martyring" which read to me as frustration rather than wanting to bullshit something.
I've addressed the claim situation, you're taking this a bit far. You fakeclaim often as both alignments, I do not trust you at all in any situation involving claims.
I literally said i fakeclaim often as mafia so back up your statement.
On January 07 2014 12:33 yamato77 wrote: That is literally the dumbest thing to harp on in everything I've posted.
No it's not. Why the fuck would you make fucking incorrect statements as town?! There is not a single reason you should be incorrectly discrediting me. None.
If you can give me a good reason why you intentionally lied then we can talk about something else. There is absolutely no reason to do so, fucking confirmed mafia thrawn did the same shit and it outed him to me.
And yes, my claim was fucking terrific because i found mafia - thrawn, becaus of it. You not realising it does not make me or my claim stupid, it makes you stupid.
On January 07 2014 12:33 yamato77 wrote: That is literally the dumbest thing to harp on in everything I've posted.
No it's not. Why the fuck would you make fucking incorrect statements as town?! There is not a single reason you should be incorrectly discrediting me. None.
If you can give me a good reason why you intentionally lied then we can talk about something else. There is absolutely no reason to do so, fucking confirmed mafia thrawn did the same shit and it outed him to me.
I did not intentionally lie. You fakeclaim often. End of story.
I've addressed the claim situation, you're taking this a bit far. You fakeclaim often as both alignments, I do not trust you at all in any situation involving claims.
I literally said i fakeclaim often as mafia so back up your statement.
I've addressed the claim situation, you're taking this a bit far. You fakeclaim often as both alignments, I do not trust you at all in any situation involving claims.
I literally said i fakeclaim often as mafia so back up your statement.
I meant jointly. Not independently as either alignment.
"i did not intentionally lie" >>I needed a shite reason to doubt rayns claim because he's confirmed town and I cant have him leading people so I just made a bullshit blanket statement so I could choose to ignore his claim. Gawd such townlieness
I've addressed the claim situation, you're taking this a bit far. You fakeclaim often as both alignments, I do not trust you at all in any situation involving claims.
I literally said i fakeclaim often as mafia so back up your statement.
I meant jointly. Not independently as either alignment.
If you think i fakeclaim cop as either town or mafia one hour into the game when there is literally no fucking reson to do so you are absolutely terrible at this game. You didn't even look at my reason for why i claimed, which was i wanted you and thrawn to scumhunt me and not consider me as possibly scum because my role is useless for me because if i do not die on N1 or N2 i am doing something wrong in this game and town will lose.
Instead both of you and thrawn (who was btw mafia) decide to not weigh the reasons for me to truthfully claim as town but you discredit me and decide to not scumhunt with me. That's fucking stupid, you are not even thinking my reasons for claiming, you are discrediting me "because rayn has fakeclaimed before", in situations that are ENTIRELY FUCKING DIFFERENT THAN IN THIS GAME!
If you are town i would assume you would be willing to admit you made a mistake and instead of banging your head against the wall with voting for Hopeless you would say something like "okay guys, since you CC/Sent/rayn want to lynch me over Hopeless let's try it this way. At least take your votes off me, because it's clear me and Hopeless are not both mafia, let me and Hopeless give reads on Coagulation/kush/Alakaslam and discuss those reads, because there is at least one mafia in that pool".
That would be reasonable. Unless you are mafia and know when you flip Hopeless becomes "confirmed" and you don't wanna out your scumbuddy.
So why are you being stubborn and not taking different approach?
Yeah that's actually true. So, both of you, could you give your reads on Coag/Slam/kush? And yamato please do not call Slam town because you are able to read what he writes, i don't think that's a good reason to call someone town.
On January 04 2014 12:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also you think there could be a mafia motivation behind me claiming, but you won't elaborate on why. All you have to say is "sayn has fakecalimed as scum before, therefore he could be fakeclaiming now". That's really fishy thrawn. Why are you refusing to give your reasoning?
Here's the deal, I'm done talking about your claim for right now, so make what you will of it. Yes, I am straight up refusing to talk to you about this and you're just gonna have to deal with it.
so this exchange makes rayn look pretty solid town imo
[UoN]Sentinel is vig obv town
Yamato is playing piss poor and im leaning scum on him. Hes using pretty shit logic like
On January 05 2014 05:33 yamato77 wrote: You would not lynch me before coag or kush in a game like this, don't be silly.
alakaslam has been lurker hunting the entire game and thats a red flag. scum like to focus on lurker discussion a lot. gonna fos on slam. likely scum.
Kush looks town to me so far. but that aint worth shit cause hes unreadable.
Mr. Cheesecake is vet. gonna assume its legit.
Hopeless1der sorta got a scum vibe but dunno. mostly null
I took my vote off from you yamato. If someone hammers you before discussion they claim scum. Hopeless explain how does that make Coagulation mafia over kushmasta and slam who have similar inconsistancies in their reads? Like, kush literally gave out reads that were based on something the person never did in this game.
thats why kush is after coag in my matyring posts. Slam did things like asking what L-2 meant and flipflopping really hard when you claimed cop between you/gumshoe/yamato, read like he was legit trying to figure out wtf was happening, I think he's town
Just a warning, the weather in my area is expected to jump from -5 to 70 Fahrenheit, about -21 to 21 Celsius, from Tuesday to Friday. I'm probably going to be very sick by the end of the week as a result but I'll do my best to stay on.
On January 04 2014 12:18 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: dont hammer gumshoe at least until tmrw.
I agree yam is not his usual awesome gosu townie self, so im scummy on him.
Im sure rayn and slam are town. Idk about sent, didnt like his entrance it was scummy but hes slowed down and had some ok posts. Hopeless hasnt done much but its more thsn when hes maf.
And gum has had some scummy stuff like piggy backing off yamato bringing up my opener and never following it up.kush and coag... null obv.
So that leaves in order from scum to town gum yam kush / coag / sent hopless slam rayn me
Idk where thrawn lies in this yet. Yay lists froom phone
Does anyone think this is WIFOM?
Why was yamato not shot on N1? If i was mafia in anyone's shoes in this game (not counting me/yamato) and i knew rayn & yamato were town i would assume rayn will get protected in case of medic. Just because he accused thrawn and even if my team shoots him thrawn will get lynched for it most likely on D2.
Why the fuck would anyone shoot Mr.CC over yamato if yamato is town?
Especially wanting kushmasta, Coagulation and Alakaslam to contribute on this one. Hopeless will ofc say "because yamato is scum" and yamato will say "WIFOM or whatever i was useless" .
Because let's assume yamato is town. Town has mislynched on D1. There is no reason to assume Cheesecake is blue (or is there?).
Cheesecake has no read on thrawn. Cheesecake thinks yamato is mafia, he is his top scumread. This would imply Cheesecake is on the wrong track, hell he can be even blamed on D2 for hammering gumshoe.
So again, if you think yamato is town, why did mafia shoot a person who was on a wrong track on D1 and did not have a scumread on the flipped scum? Why did mafia let yamato - a possible town leader - alive on N1? If this is in fact the case and this is WIFOM, why is mafia not bringing this up to mislynch yamato? This is a reasonable assumption, why is mafia not using that as their advantage if yamato is town.
On January 07 2014 13:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because let's assume yamato is town. Town has mislynched on D1. There is no reason to assume Cheesecake is blue (or is there?).
Cheesecake has no read on thrawn. Cheesecake thinks yamato is mafia, he is his top scumread. This would imply Cheesecake is on the wrong track, hell he can be even blamed on D2 for hammering gumshoe.
So again, if you think yamato is town, why did mafia shoot a person who was on a wrong track on D1 and did not have a scumread on the flipped scum? Why did mafia let yamato - a possible town leader - alive on N1? If this is in fact the case and this is WIFOM, why is mafia not bringing this up to mislynch yamato? This is a reasonable assumption, why is mafia not using that as their advantage if yamato is town.
Just for the record, Hopeless has used this logic multiple times now.
On January 07 2014 13:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because let's assume yamato is town. Town has mislynched on D1. There is no reason to assume Cheesecake is blue (or is there?).
Cheesecake has no read on thrawn. Cheesecake thinks yamato is mafia, he is his top scumread. This would imply Cheesecake is on the wrong track, hell he can be even blamed on D2 for hammering gumshoe.
So again, if you think yamato is town, why did mafia shoot a person who was on a wrong track on D1 and did not have a scumread on the flipped scum? Why did mafia let yamato - a possible town leader - alive on N1? If this is in fact the case and this is WIFOM, why is mafia not bringing this up to mislynch yamato? This is a reasonable assumption, why is mafia not using that as their advantage if yamato is town.
Just for the record, Hopeless has used this logic multiple times now.
I don't think it's necessarily fault logic but it's no use of discussing it with you as you'll obviously disagree. I wanna know what kush, coag and slam think about this.
On January 07 2014 13:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because let's assume yamato is town. Town has mislynched on D1. There is no reason to assume Cheesecake is blue (or is there?).
Cheesecake has no read on thrawn. Cheesecake thinks yamato is mafia, he is his top scumread. This would imply Cheesecake is on the wrong track, hell he can be even blamed on D2 for hammering gumshoe.
So again, if you think yamato is town, why did mafia shoot a person who was on a wrong track on D1 and did not have a scumread on the flipped scum? Why did mafia let yamato - a possible town leader - alive on N1? If this is in fact the case and this is WIFOM, why is mafia not bringing this up to mislynch yamato? This is a reasonable assumption, why is mafia not using that as their advantage if yamato is town.
Just for the record, Hopeless has used this logic multiple times now.
I don't think it's necessarily fault logic but it's no use of discussing it with you as you'll obviously disagree. I wanna know what kush, coag and slam think about this.
Well you asked "Why is mafia not bringing this up?"
I would like to see discussion between people that are not me/CC/Sent. I don't care much about yamato <-> Hopeless argument because it's clear why both of those people think each other is scum.
On January 07 2014 13:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because let's assume yamato is town. Town has mislynched on D1. There is no reason to assume Cheesecake is blue (or is there?).
Cheesecake has no read on thrawn. Cheesecake thinks yamato is mafia, he is his top scumread. This would imply Cheesecake is on the wrong track, hell he can be even blamed on D2 for hammering gumshoe.
So again, if you think yamato is town, why did mafia shoot a person who was on a wrong track on D1 and did not have a scumread on the flipped scum? Why did mafia let yamato - a possible town leader - alive on N1? If this is in fact the case and this is WIFOM, why is mafia not bringing this up to mislynch yamato? This is a reasonable assumption, why is mafia not using that as their advantage if yamato is town.
Just for the record, Hopeless has used this logic multiple times now.
I don't think it's necessarily fault logic but it's no use of discussing it with you as you'll obviously disagree. I wanna know what kush, coag and slam think about this.
Slam says "you kidding me? I consider all NK associations WIFOM. You could easily be thinking exactly what scum wants you to think."
On January 07 2014 13:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: What i was trying to say is if Hopeless + X is mafia and that's their game plan why does everyone else who could be X say Hopeless is mafia?
X = slam,coag,kush
Bussing exists. I admit there is no advantage to it I can see right now. However I am not a badass planner.
On January 07 2014 15:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: So slam, why are you avoiding the discussion proposed? Which one of kush/Coag is mafia and why?
OMGUS wants me to say both but that is impossible.
I would say Coag first, Kush is pushing me too hard versus keeping me around like I would expect a scum team to do.
Loaded questions can help you scum hunt but they can also help you tunnel, so...
My answer to your question is I'm not. I have made my decision and placed my vote, I haven't seen town specifically ask me to help hammer Yamato, so I'm not voting him- he is town IMO.
Hopeless has not convinced me he isn't scum and I don't think he can really.
The point is the "confirmed townies" are leaning on yamato being scum over Hopeless, whether or not you agree with it. Now it's time to find another scum in you/Coag/kush, because both of Hopeless/yamato are not mafia.
Whichever of Hopeless/yamato we lynch that affects the next lynch, and right now you are refusing to contribute to Coag/kush so you look pretty bad. So could you give actual reasons for one of them being mafia over the other one? Make a scum case and a town case because if you are town and you think Hopeless is scum they can't both be scum.
On January 07 2014 15:58 yamato77 wrote: You can't put "confirmed townies" in quotes like that and bitch at me for not just acquiescing to your confirmedness. It's just not cool.
Why do you post shit like this instead of something useful?
On January 07 2014 15:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: The point is the "confirmed townies" are leaning on yamato being scum over Hopeless, whether or not you agree with it. Now it's time to find another scum in you/Coag/kush, because both of Hopeless/yamato are not mafia.
Whichever of Hopeless/yamato we lynch that affects the next lynch, and right now you are refusing to contribute to Coag/kush so you look pretty bad. So could you give actual reasons for one of them being mafia over the other one? Make a scum case and a town case because if you are town and you think Hopeless is scum they can't both be scum.
Then I look bad?
Coag is lurking- oh shee, he always lurk.
Kushmasta is not me or Coag, and tunnels me- scum tell, town tell.
Hijole man, hopeless scummier than both.
Not knowing the answer to your question doesn't make me scum. Lynch me sooner versus later if you must but I would rather you discover it is between Kush/Coag.
Heck I think I can tell you in advance what they will tell you; they will say I am scum and repeat what they already said.
kush and Coag: Which one of yamato & Hopeless do you think is mafia and which one is town. Make a scum case and a town case please. Or do you think both of them are scum/town?
On January 07 2014 13:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because let's assume yamato is town. Town has mislynched on D1. There is no reason to assume Cheesecake is blue (or is there?).
Cheesecake has no read on thrawn. Cheesecake thinks yamato is mafia, he is his top scumread. This would imply Cheesecake is on the wrong track, hell he can be even blamed on D2 for hammering gumshoe.
So again, if you think yamato is town, why did mafia shoot a person who was on a wrong track on D1 and did not have a scumread on the flipped scum? Why did mafia let yamato - a possible town leader - alive on N1? If this is in fact the case and this is WIFOM, why is mafia not bringing this up to mislynch yamato? This is a reasonable assumption, why is mafia not using that as their advantage if yamato is town.
Just for the record, Hopeless has used this logic multiple times now.
I don't think it's necessarily fault logic but it's no use of discussing it with you as you'll obviously disagree. I wanna know what kush, coag and slam think about this.
Slam says "you kidding me? I consider all NK associations WIFOM. You could easily be thinking exactly what scum wants you to think."
Also, read the Bolded in the quote.
Hopeless1der read strengthened, thanks Rayne!
The original of this is on previous page and I even lol'ed looking in the nested quote
On January 07 2014 15:58 yamato77 wrote: You can't put "confirmed townies" in quotes like that and bitch at me for not just acquiescing to your confirmedness. It's just not cool.
Why do you post shit like this instead of something useful?
I've posted plenty of useful things. Do your own scumhunting instead of badgering other people to do it for you.
Night kill analysis is never WIFOM because in every single game scum night kill who they do for a reason. Saying there is no way to analyse why mafia killed someone is entirely incorrect.
So why do you think mafia hit MR.Cheesecake. There is always a reason why mafia kills who they kill, what do you think was their reason?
On January 07 2014 14:03 yamato77 wrote: You know my read of everyone in the game. I will go through those three again later after some rest.
And instead of doing this you bash me for not doing scumhunting while that's exactly what i am doing and you are just posting shit like:
On January 07 2014 15:58 yamato77 wrote: You can't put "confirmed townies" in quotes like that and bitch at me for not just acquiescing to your confirmedness. It's just not cool.
On January 07 2014 15:58 yamato77 wrote: You can't put "confirmed townies" in quotes like that and bitch at me for not just acquiescing to your confirmedness. It's just not cool.
Why do you post shit like this instead of something useful?
I've posted plenty of useful things. Do your own scumhunting instead of badgering other people to do it for you.
So if you are town please cut the crap and do what you promised to do.
This is your read on Alakaslam: "He has said stuff that i can understand and i think his scumplay would look like this." This is not a read.
This is your read on Coag (notice no posts from Coag between these changes): + Show Spoiler +
On January 05 2014 13:18 kushm4sta wrote: coag There is no amount of effort shown this game, which leans scummy to me. It seems like in his town games, he makes an effort to show you he is town. He doesn't do that at all here.
On January 04 2014 10:53 Coagulation wrote: guis dont ignore me. say my name.
He loves to do this too scummy to be scum shit as scum. Conclusion: SCUM
Coag makes his big post.
On January 05 2014 17:06 kushm4sta wrote: lol coag I'm so readable. You just haven't seen my scum game recently to know how bad it looks. but yeah coag looks pretty town and I agree with his reads.
On January 05 2014 18:25 kushm4sta wrote: coag is actually super town for realizing this. coag:
alakaslam has been lurker hunting the entire game and thats a red flag. scum like to focus on lurker discussion a lot. gonna fos on slam. likely scum.
this is dead on
This is btw dead wrong. When i ask about it kush does not change his read on Coag but that makes Alakaslam more scummy..
On January 06 2014 02:33 kushm4sta wrote: i thought coag's post was really insightful actually. his ratio of insight to effort pwns everyone else in this game. that is of why i fear he may be busing. I see it like this: If alaka is town, which is possible i guess but I doubt it, coag is town. If alaka is scum, 30% chance coag is busing.
From supertown -> bussing.
On January 06 2014 09:00 kushm4sta wrote: honestly i don't think coag would taint the sanctity of his town badge
And back to town.
On January 07 2014 01:16 kushm4sta wrote: i'm not ready to swear coag is town but I think he's town.
On January 07 2014 03:09 kushm4sta wrote: coag -alaka scumteam calling it now
Into scum. Notice that Coagulation does not make a single alignment indicative post between here, other than votes for Alakaslam, something kushmasta wanted him to do. That should be a town tell.
The whole read is full of shit and makes zero sense.
This is your read on yamato: kush: "yamato is town because of reason X". rayn: "point out to me where yamato did X" kush: "you are right, there is no X" Then you call yamato scummy for various reasons. But in the end he is town. No reasoning given. This is not a read, this is bullshit.
This is your read on Hopeless: You point out many stuff you think Hopeless has done that is really scummy in your opinion. Conclusion: Hopeless is a lynchbait and town. This is not a read, this is bullshit.
And that's it. That's why you are scum. Your reads are based on nothing, nothing at all. They are full of contradictions and change with no reasoning.
On January 04 2014 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure gumshoe is mafia. Nothing he says is making sense atm.
no, but you did just claim cop for questionable reasons.
And that has to do with anything how? Are you discrediting me or are you calling me scum or are you agreeing with me? What exactly are you saying here?
im saying gumshoe not making sense could be because hes confused, not necessarily mafia. You're totes town
On January 04 2014 10:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he does not think i am mafia i have no reason to lie about why i claimed in the first place, which i stated was not because of pressure. Either way he is bullshitting.
I'll be honest, I didnt read very closely the first time around. gumshoe is a good lynch. but, BETTER THAN RNG? I DUNNO.
Suddenly Gumshoe is a good lynch for no reason other than he didn't read before. I would expect a townie hopeless to have like a sentence explaining what aspect of the argument convinced him.
Otherwise there has been a total lack of content from hopeless. He's done some mechanics posts and some troll posts, but his scumhunting is practically non existent. I remember his towngame as having a similar length filter but being more focused on logical scumhunting.
Conclusion: SCUM
Into this:
On January 07 2014 02:30 kushm4sta wrote: hopeless can you explain in better detail why you decided to vote gumshoe?
[QUOTE]On January 07 2014 02:38 Hopeless1der wrote: This is what "changed my mind" about gumshoe. Accusing rayn of waiting until he was "under fire" and "reacting to pressure" to claim parity cop. I had only skimmed his posts and understood he couldn't understand why rayn claimed the way he did. When I actually sat down and read things through, I thought it was scummy.
Also, who actually thought an RNG lynch would get pushed? i did that for the hell of it because Slam wanted things to happen [quote] [QUOTE]On January 07 2014 02:46 kushm4sta wrote: i tihnk i might have just had that moment when i realized my scumreads are shit[/QUOTE] Hopeless' stance on gumshoe makes him mafia -> Hopeless' stance on gumshoe makes him town.
Guess who does not read filters as mafia. kushmasta.
On January 04 2014 09:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure gumshoe is mafia. Nothing he says is making sense atm.
no, but you did just claim cop for questionable reasons.
And that has to do with anything how? Are you discrediting me or are you calling me scum or are you agreeing with me? What exactly are you saying here?
im saying gumshoe not making sense could be because hes confused, not necessarily mafia. You're totes town
On January 04 2014 10:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he does not think i am mafia i have no reason to lie about why i claimed in the first place, which i stated was not because of pressure. Either way he is bullshitting.
I'll be honest, I didnt read very closely the first time around. gumshoe is a good lynch. but, BETTER THAN RNG? I DUNNO.
Suddenly Gumshoe is a good lynch for no reason other than he didn't read before. I would expect a townie hopeless to have like a sentence explaining what aspect of the argument convinced him.
Otherwise there has been a total lack of content from hopeless. He's done some mechanics posts and some troll posts, but his scumhunting is practically non existent. I remember his towngame as having a similar length filter but being more focused on logical scumhunting.
Conclusion: SCUM
Into this:
On January 07 2014 02:30 kushm4sta wrote: hopeless can you explain in better detail why you decided to vote gumshoe?
On January 07 2014 02:38 Hopeless1der wrote: This is what "changed my mind" about gumshoe. Accusing rayn of waiting until he was "under fire" and "reacting to pressure" to claim parity cop. I had only skimmed his posts and understood he couldn't understand why rayn claimed the way he did. When I actually sat down and read things through, I thought it was scummy.
Also, who actually thought an RNG lynch would get pushed? i did that for the hell of it because Slam wanted things to happen
On January 07 2014 02:46 kushm4sta wrote: i tihnk i might have just had that moment when i realized my scumreads are shit
Hopeless' stance on gumshoe makes him mafia -> Hopeless' stance on gumshoe makes him town.
Guess who does not read filters as mafia. kushmasta.
kushmasta's reads are contradictory and irrational. Coagulation just idk.. just says whatever and votes for whatever. Alakaslam is not making any sense and refuses to give detailed reads. yamato refuses to play and calls me stupid instead. Hopeless is making some sense but it's pretty easy when noone else is making any sense. When asked to do something does nothing.
so can we lynch him already? he has had plenty of time to do something with those 2 days off he had, and he's done little more than push my lynch and call rayn stupid
We need five for a hammer. yamato can sleep or do whatever he needs to do, but I'm not going to sit idly by and give scum any more time than I have to.
where the hell did coag go....one of you clowns on alakaslam needs to vote me or yamato so we can end this bloody day. And slam, I know I havent responded to your case very well (if at all). You around?
Coagulation's most recent vote in the voting thread is not considered valid due to lack of an unvote. Before voting a new player, make sure to ##unvote if your vote is already on someone.
On January 08 2014 04:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: We need five for a hammer. yamato can sleep or do whatever he needs to do, but I'm not going to sit idly by and give scum any more time than I have to.
I would say this is the answer to your question Kush.
The problem is this. Prolonging the day allows for a pro-town thing and a pro-scum thing. Respectively, saying more and getting more accurate lynches from better information, versus giving more time to scum to think up Alibi's.
Since nothing much is happening and most people have decided, I will acknowledge the impasse that I have with Hopeless1der and give in to the other lynch. Besides there are plans for what to do based on his flip (Cheesecake laid that out), and if he's scum I am probably wrong about a lot. I am getting suspicious that I am being a fool...
On January 08 2014 08:49 kushm4sta wrote: um i want more time so i can actually read filters. cause right now my reads are pretty much based on some shitty connection theory.
why do you want to kill yamato now? is it still lazy scum meta? because he has talked a shit ton.
he's talking, but I don't think he has actually said much.
hey, remember how yamato was trying to say how if I wasnt scum then he'd have been hammered by now? He was at L-2, so in the event that I AM scum, he could not be hammered by scum (my vote is/was already on him) and thus that line of reasoning is meaningless in the context that he is pushing me for scum, isnt it?
So I like to do a drone scout at 9 supply and only on 2 player maps. The reason is this is the timing where you will know exactly what he is doing before you start the hatchery or pool. This prevents me from getting cannon rushed as when I see forge first I do pool, if I scout gate I go hatch first, if I scout nexus first I will normally go 3 hatch before pool.
On 4 player maps drone scouting is absolutely pointless. Unless you get lucky and scout him first, by the time you find out where he spawns you will already have gone hatch or pool first. You can do it if you wish, but I recommend not. On 4 player maps just use your best judgement on how you want to play it out, I personally go hatch first unless Protoss probe scouts me first.
raynpelikoneet the 9 Scout has been shot!
Welcome to Day 3. This Day ends instantly when a majority is reached to lynch. With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Make sure to vote in the voting thread.
2/4 players are scum. CC/Sent you are almost guaranteed to have final say here. I'm going to reread the other 3 shortly (I'm assuming your claims are legit because they are the only explanation we have for N1 Actions) and primarily make sure I actually believe Slam is town.
We're lynching coagulation because he's literally done nothing this entire game. If he isn't mafia then I refuse to play with him in the future via wisdom of the crowds.
and this is why we don't listen to rayn getting all mad at someone because they always flip town.
Like fucking seriously, if coag is going to play this way as town then there's just no excuse. He hasn't made any attempt to figure out the game at all. therefore he is mafia.
On January 04 2014 12:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also you think there could be a mafia motivation behind me claiming, but you won't elaborate on why. All you have to say is "sayn has fakecalimed as scum before, therefore he could be fakeclaiming now". That's really fishy thrawn. Why are you refusing to give your reasoning?
Here's the deal, I'm done talking about your claim for right now, so make what you will of it. Yes, I am straight up refusing to talk to you about this and you're just gonna have to deal with it.
so this exchange makes rayn look pretty solid town imo
[UoN]Sentinel is vig obv town
Yamato is playing piss poor and im leaning scum on him. Hes using pretty shit logic like
On January 05 2014 05:33 yamato77 wrote: You would not lynch me before coag or kush in a game like this, don't be silly.
alakaslam has been lurker hunting the entire game and thats a red flag. scum like to focus on lurker discussion a lot. gonna fos on slam. likely scum.
Kush looks town to me so far. but that aint worth shit cause hes unreadable.
Mr. Cheesecake is vet. gonna assume its legit.
Hopeless1der sorta got a scum vibe but dunno. mostly null
and of course these reads come with the
This is coag's only real post. A bunch of bullshit reads except in the middle there is some actual smart observation. That is because it's easy for him to do since it's a bus on alaka. Why wouldn't coag bus, since there is no penalty for it because no one is going to be convinced by his reads anyway?
Scum always treat their scumbuddies different from how they treat townies. That is what is going on in this post.
Coagulation the Mineral Line Drone has been lynched!
Scum Victory!
kushm4sta, Forgotten at the Rally Point, is Victorious! alakaslam, Forgotten at the Rally Point, is Victorious!
Hopeless1der the Mineral Line Drone has been endgamed! [UoN]Sentinel the Drone Stack has been endgamed! Mr. Cheesecake the Regeneration Micro Drone has been endgamed!
Host note: the game ends here since there's no way to block the scum KP tonight, since Mr CC no longer has a night life, and tomorrow will be 2 scum 2 town; this means that town will no longer be able to lynch any scum since a majority of 3 is not possible. Eventually, after a long day of deadlock, I will declare a deadline for a no-lynch, and a no-lynch will happen. Then, scum will shoot another townie, then lynch the last one and win. This satisfies scum wincon as their victory is inevitable short of being modkilled or certain plays (like lynching one of themselves in a 2-2 scenario) that simply must happen.
On January 09 2014 04:03 Coagulation wrote: because I had thought there was another day. I figured I would tell people it was slam and kush and they would listen.
But... with 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch, and you think there are 2 scum, so if you hammer yourself town loses.
Edit: what i'm trying to say is, you were aware of the number of players in the game, and also apparently of the number of scum. did you really not know this would end the game?
nah I had slam pegged as scum but everyone refused to fucking listen to my read and just disregarded me. Instead they wanted to argue about lynching townies. Im not the one thats bad.
Based on D2 kush was the most obvious mafia i have ever seen in a game. Sentinel why the fuck did you vote for yamato on D2 - i specifically wanted all of those people to contribute?
On January 09 2014 04:05 Coagulation wrote: nah I had slam pegged as scum but everyone refused to fucking listen to my read and just disregarded me. Instead they wanted to argue about lynching townies. Im not the one thats bad.
okay but even in the event that everyone is bad and not listening to you, surely hammering yourself in mylo isn't the answer?
E: not that you weren't about to get hammered by slam anyways, but STILL. come on.
On January 09 2014 04:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Based on D2 kush was the most obvious mafia i have ever seen in a game. Sentinel why the fuck did you vote for yamato on D2 - i specifically wanted all of those people to contribute?
Because he wasn't reading.
You were the only one that even half read my posts out of all the town players.
I thought there was another day for some reason. And I knew slam was scum so I was gonna get hammered regardless. my bad tho I shoulda parked my vote on slam and listened to mr cc lecture about wotc.
On January 09 2014 04:10 Coagulation wrote: I thought there was another day for some reason. And I knew slam was scum so I was gonna get hammered regardless. my bad tho I shoulda parked my vote on slam and listened to mr cc lecture about wotc.
I mean if there really WAS another day though, you can't have been sure slam was gonna hammer you; quickhammer is only something that happens at MYLO. Also, he wasn't in thread and posting at the time, so even if you knew it was MYLO and you were doomed, you should have asked one of the town players on you to unvote you or something. Even if you stood by and did nothing... come on man.
I could tell by the way mr cc was playing he had absolutely no idea who was scum and was going to vote me no matter what because he would rather ride a policy lynch than admit he had no idea what was going on. there was no way I wasnt getting lynched today.
On January 09 2014 04:14 Coagulation wrote: I could tell by the way mr cc was playing he had absolutely no idea who was scum and was going to vote me no matter what because he would rather ride a policy lynch than admit he had no idea what was going on. there was no way I wasnt getting lynched today.
I would, because if you don't do anything the entire game YOU SHOULD BE SCUM
On January 09 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Nah I made a legit case on scum day 2. you ignored it. Thats not called "not doing anything the entire game"
Yeah and then your scumread asked you to vote for another townie and you did so. Then you hammered that person. Didn't look too fancy.
On January 09 2014 04:16 Coagulation wrote: Nah I made a legit case on scum day 2. you ignored it. Thats not called "not doing anything the entire game"
Yeah and then your scumread asked you to vote for another townie and you did so. Then you hammered that person. Didn't look too fancy.
On January 09 2014 04:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Based on D2 kush was the most obvious mafia i have ever seen in a game. Sentinel why the fuck did you vote for yamato on D2 - i specifically wanted all of those people to contribute?
Because he wasn't reading.
You were the only one that even half read my posts out of all the town players.
Yes i did and i wanted to lynch into kush/Slam/Coag. Most likely kush because all of his reads were crap, i just wanted them to speak before making a decision.
no that was kush. I cant read kush very well so it was 50/50
at that point I was just going with general town flow because no one recognized my read on slam and I started to assume it was bad cause everyone ignored it.
Alright coag I'm putting in a request for some sort of ban list action for you for hammering yourself at MYLO as a townie. Could just going to go for a warning since you seem not to have understood that it was in fact MYLO, and you were going to be hammered in a few hours by scum anyways. I want another host (though not geript or cora since they don't like you) or some co-hosts or something to figure out what's appropriate. feel free to go weigh in here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427933
On January 09 2014 04:25 Blazinghand wrote: I would also just like to note that it's really really risky play to vote for someone as town less than an hour into the MYLO day. Come on, guys.
._.
;_;
;______;
this is true and all...but your filter was bigger than coag's
On January 09 2014 04:21 Coagulation wrote: no that was kush. I cant read kush very well so it was 50/50
at that point I was just going with general town flow because no one recognized my read on slam and I started to assume it was bad cause everyone ignored it.
I mean you had a scumread on yamato. then he asked you to vote for hopeless, and you did so. Ultimately you ended up voting for yamato, the dude who asked you to vote for another dude and did hell of more stuff than Hopeless on D2.
On January 09 2014 04:21 Coagulation wrote: no that was kush. I cant read kush very well so it was 50/50
at that point I was just going with general town flow because no one recognized my read on slam and I started to assume it was bad cause everyone ignored it.
I mean you had a scumread on yamato. then he asked you to vote for hopeless, and you did so. Ultimately you ended up voting for yamato, the dude who asked you to vote for another dude and did hell of more stuff than Hopeless on D2.
this is why i voted coag btw. i thought it was a tossup between kush/slam
Oh I was just doing some calculations. Total active game time was like 64 hours. In a normal game this would put us about halfway through N1. I can't really comment about problems with the day length to a huge amount other than that the typical scum complaint against Instant Majority is town can run 72 hour days, which are supposedly the optimal day length.
On January 09 2014 04:33 Coagulation wrote: yep. everythings my fault cc. you can blame it all on me i dont mind buddy.
you're a massive liability to town every time you're town because you make yourself unreadable by putting in no effort. The fact that you're right about a scumread is irrelevant because you do nothing to persuade anyone else and people can't trust your motives because you do nothing to prove yourself town in any way.
obviously the quicklynch in mylo is pretty bad, but you're the one putting townies in a position that they're actually willing to quick lynch you for how you're playing...
Not sure about the lynch on yamato btw, I didn't follow the game 100% but maybe it could have been avoided, I saw a lot of below-par posts from yamato I guess.
Dunno what he was doing bleating on about how claims weren't confirmed in all of his posts. That was really weird.
I guess you should be pretty sure about yamato if you're lynching him above mafia kush and mafia slam
On January 09 2014 04:38 marvellosity wrote: Not sure about the lynch on yamato btw, I didn't follow the game 100% but maybe it could have been avoided, I saw a lot of below-par posts from yamato I guess.
Dunno what he was doing bleating on about how claims weren't confirmed in all of his posts. That was really weird.
I guess you should be pretty sure about yamato if you're lynching him above mafia kush and mafia slam
well the problem there is that in general slam and kush are notoriously unreadable and yamato is not. The fact that I couldnt get a stable town read on yamato was enough to say he must be scum. Perhaps the fact he had me as scum was a factor, but enough other players agreed he looked scummy.
On January 09 2014 04:38 marvellosity wrote: Not sure about the lynch on yamato btw, I didn't follow the game 100% but maybe it could have been avoided, I saw a lot of below-par posts from yamato I guess.
Dunno what he was doing bleating on about how claims weren't confirmed in all of his posts. That was really weird.
I guess you should be pretty sure about yamato if you're lynching him above mafia kush and mafia slam
well the problem there is that in general slam and kush are notoriously unreadable and yamato is not. The fact that I couldnt get a stable town read on yamato was enough to say he must be scum. Perhaps the fact he had me as scum was a factor, but enough other players agreed he looked scummy.
Thank you for posting, it reminded me - it was actually his read on you that I found really sub-par, because from what I know of you I thought you looked quite obviously town in this game, and I couldn't understand how yamato was crusading for your lynch.
yamato lynch kinda makes more sense in that light, I forgot about that.
On January 09 2014 04:42 kushm4sta wrote: I was very readable this game, by rayn even. Just because you don't have the skills to read me doesn't mean im unreadable.
I was able to read you, coag's shitty play clouded my judgement.
On January 09 2014 04:42 thrawn2112 wrote: who all thought i was scum at the end of D1
it would have taken a little convincing, but I'd probably have lynched you
On January 09 2014 04:21 Coagulation wrote: no that was kush. I cant read kush very well so it was 50/50
at that point I was just going with general town flow because no one recognized my read on slam and I started to assume it was bad cause everyone ignored it.
I mean you had a scumread on yamato. then he asked you to vote for hopeless, and you did so. Ultimately you ended up voting for yamato, the dude who asked you to vote for another dude and did hell of more stuff than Hopeless on D2.
this is why i voted coag btw. i thought it was a tossup between kush/slam
Seriously?!?!?!?
KUSH HAMMERED HIS TOWNREAD WHO WAS VOTED BY BOTH OF HIS SCUMREADS! God...
All the lynches apart from yamato were terrible, there was no discussion whatsoever! Even if you are policy("scum") lynching coag at least talk to him before you do it to make your lynch solidified. That push on gumshoe day 1 without him actually being around was also ridiculous and you guys should feel bad for lynching so quickly in an instant majority game.
I thought gumshoe was scum because he had a thought process that said "rayn as town is lying about his reasons for his claim". It made absolutely zero sense to me and there is really nothing you can say to "clarify" that.
I agree the lynch was terrible and i take all the blame for it.
On January 09 2014 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: I thought gumshoe was scum because he had a thought process that said "rayn as town is lying about his reasons for his claim". It made absolutely zero sense to me and there is really nothing you can say to "clarify" that.
I agree the lynch was terrible and i take all the blame for it.
I probably helped it along a lot more than people think even if I semi outed myself doing so
On January 09 2014 04:21 Coagulation wrote: no that was kush. I cant read kush very well so it was 50/50
at that point I was just going with general town flow because no one recognized my read on slam and I started to assume it was bad cause everyone ignored it.
I mean you had a scumread on yamato. then he asked you to vote for hopeless, and you did so. Ultimately you ended up voting for yamato, the dude who asked you to vote for another dude and did hell of more stuff than Hopeless on D2.
this is why i voted coag btw. i thought it was a tossup between kush/slam
Seriously?!?!?!?
KUSH HAMMERED HIS TOWNREAD WHO WAS VOTED BY BOTH OF HIS SCUMREADS! God...
I know that it was a terrible play, but I honestly could see a town-kush doing the exact same thing.
On January 09 2014 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: I thought gumshoe was scum because he had a thought process that said "rayn as town is lying about his reasons for his claim". It made absolutely zero sense to me and there is really nothing you can say to "clarify" that.
I agree the lynch was terrible and i take all the blame for it.
I probably helped it along a lot more than people think even if I semi outed myself doing so
My main reason for you being scum was because you would not tell me why would i fakeclaim and you used a bullshit argument (which btw yamato used aswell) comparing this game to Witchcraft where I HAD TO CLAIM SOMETHING. Of course i fakeclaim as mafia when as town i would be blue.
On January 09 2014 04:05 Coagulation wrote: nah I had slam pegged as scum but everyone refused to fucking listen to my read and just disregarded me. Instead they wanted to argue about lynching townies. Im not the one thats bad.
okay but even in the event that everyone is bad and not listening to you, surely hammering yourself in mylo isn't the answer?
E: not that you weren't about to get hammered by slam anyways, but STILL. come on.
Wow... entire Day 3 happened while I was away at school.
GG scum. I wouldn't've guessed alakaslam for quite some time, he hid it well. And I guess I'll have to think differently about yamato from now on. At least I was right about kush
Glad I shot thrawn and not yamato D1, although I guess we still would've lost D3 that way.
On January 09 2014 04:38 marvellosity wrote: Not sure about the lynch on yamato btw, I didn't follow the game 100% but maybe it could have been avoided, I saw a lot of below-par posts from yamato I guess.
Dunno what he was doing bleating on about how claims weren't confirmed in all of his posts. That was really weird.
I guess you should be pretty sure about yamato if you're lynching him above mafia kush and mafia slam
well the problem there is that in general slam and kush are notoriously unreadable and yamato is not. The fact that I couldnt get a stable town read on yamato was enough to say he must be scum. Perhaps the fact he had me as scum was a factor, but enough other players agreed he looked scummy.
On January 09 2014 04:21 Coagulation wrote: no that was kush. I cant read kush very well so it was 50/50
at that point I was just going with general town flow because no one recognized my read on slam and I started to assume it was bad cause everyone ignored it.
I mean you had a scumread on yamato. then he asked you to vote for hopeless, and you did so. Ultimately you ended up voting for yamato, the dude who asked you to vote for another dude and did hell of more stuff than Hopeless on D2.
this is why i voted coag btw. i thought it was a tossup between kush/slam
Seriously?!?!?!?
KUSH HAMMERED HIS TOWNREAD WHO WAS VOTED BY BOTH OF HIS SCUMREADS! God...
On January 09 2014 04:38 marvellosity wrote: Not sure about the lynch on yamato btw, I didn't follow the game 100% but maybe it could have been avoided, I saw a lot of below-par posts from yamato I guess.
Dunno what he was doing bleating on about how claims weren't confirmed in all of his posts. That was really weird.
I guess you should be pretty sure about yamato if you're lynching him above mafia kush and mafia slam
well the problem there is that in general slam and kush are notoriously unreadable and yamato is not. The fact that I couldnt get a stable town read on yamato was enough to say he must be scum. Perhaps the fact he had me as scum was a factor, but enough other players agreed he looked scummy.
Thank you for posting, it reminded me - it was actually his read on you that I found really sub-par, because from what I know of you I thought you looked quite obviously town in this game, and I couldn't understand how yamato was crusading for your lynch.
yamato lynch kinda makes more sense in that light, I forgot about that.
I tried to reconsider, but he refused and continued tunneling me for no reason whatsoever so I went on tilt and stopped trying.
SO I was thinking about the setup and spent a long time discussing it with co-hosts and foolishness since 10-man setups are hard. Here's what we went for:
This meant town would get 3 bites at the apple to hit a scum (D1 lynch, N1 shot, D2 lynch) and if they hit a scum in time, they'd make it to D3 and have the pcop check. Obviously this didn't work out, though the amazing N1 might have made up for it.
What do you guys think about the balance? I was worried it would be a bit town-favored with the vet, but maybe it was actually scum-favored?
On January 09 2014 05:17 Blazinghand wrote: OH I TOTALLY FORGOT
SO I was thinking about the setup and spent a long time discussing it with co-hosts and foolishness since 10-man setups are hard. Here's what we went for:
This meant town would get 3 bites at the apple to hit a scum (D1 lynch, N1 shot, D2 lynch) and if they hit a scum in time, they'd make it to D3 and have the pcop check. Obviously this didn't work out, though the amazing N1 might have made up for it.
What do you guys think about the balance? I was worried it would be a bit town-favored with the vet, but maybe it was actually scum-favored?
He can rage all he wants but I think if yamato had not gone on tilt and actually played to his best, scumteam would have been crushed. From a pure setup speculation I'd call this game town favored and with the rolls on roles even more so.
On January 09 2014 05:21 Hopeless1der wrote: He can rage all he wants but I think if yamato had not gone on tilt and actually played to his best, scumteam would have been crushed. From a pure setup speculation I'd call this game town favored and with the rolls on roles even more so.
Well, it's your fault for refusing to reconsider your position on me whatsoever and ignoring the other 3 unconfirmed players in the game entirely. At least I had reads on them.
I don't think he would have been mislynched (although possible) so he would have a solved game now instead. I would have shot sent, dunno if Kush would have agreed.
Even with Ryan's claim, if Coag did not self hammer I would have come back and tried to go after Coag. But if Kush or I were lynched, game would have been solved.
On January 09 2014 05:21 Hopeless1der wrote: He can rage all he wants but I think if yamato had not gone on tilt and actually played to his best, scumteam would have been crushed. From a pure setup speculation I'd call this game town favored and with the rolls on roles even more so.
Well, it's your fault for refusing to reconsider your position on me whatsoever and ignoring the other 3 unconfirmed players in the game entirely. At least I had reads on them.
Yes. Let it be known that hopeless1der was solely responsible for getting yamato lynched. No other player had any say in the matter nor could they or yamato himself have affected the outcome in any way. All bow to the hopeless one.
On January 09 2014 05:21 Hopeless1der wrote: He can rage all he wants but I think if yamato had not gone on tilt and actually played to his best, scumteam would have been crushed. From a pure setup speculation I'd call this game town favored and with the rolls on roles even more so.
Well, it's your fault for refusing to reconsider your position on me whatsoever and ignoring the other 3 unconfirmed players in the game entirely. At least I had reads on them.
Yes. Let it be known that hopeless1der was solely responsible for getting yamato lynched. No other player had any say in the matter nor could they or yamato himself have affected the outcome in any way. All bow to the hopeless one.
I literally argued down every point someone made against me but you ignored my posts and kept repeating the same shit.
On January 09 2014 05:17 Blazinghand wrote: OH I TOTALLY FORGOT
SO I was thinking about the setup and spent a long time discussing it with co-hosts and foolishness since 10-man setups are hard. Here's what we went for:
This meant town would get 3 bites at the apple to hit a scum (D1 lynch, N1 shot, D2 lynch) and if they hit a scum in time, they'd make it to D3 and have the pcop check. Obviously this didn't work out, though the amazing N1 might have made up for it.
What do you guys think about the balance? I was worried it would be a bit town-favored with the vet, but maybe it was actually scum-favored?
It should be scum favoured really, mafia simply have an extra member of their faction over the usual 7-2 split. That counts for a lot really. Town strengths rely on things going right or being lucky (cop not getting roleblocked either night, cop not getting killed, veteran getting hit, vigi hitting the right target) whereas mafia have the large static advantage of another member which isn't mitigated by luck or happenstance.
Maybe replace vet with doctor?
Additionally the possibility of a godfather actually makes parity cop checks not that reliable, which makes town even weaker.
On January 09 2014 05:21 Hopeless1der wrote: He can rage all he wants but I think if yamato had not gone on tilt and actually played to his best, scumteam would have been crushed. From a pure setup speculation I'd call this game town favored and with the rolls on roles even more so.
Well, it's your fault for refusing to reconsider your position on me whatsoever and ignoring the other 3 unconfirmed players in the game entirely. At least I had reads on them.
Yes. Let it be known that hopeless1der was solely responsible for getting yamato lynched. No other player had any say in the matter nor could they or yamato himself have affected the outcome in any way. All bow to the hopeless one.
I was thinking of this as being "town has 3 lynches, but one of them is a vigi shot instead of a lynch" kind of dealie. I was leery of giving town a regular Cop which would be potentially active D2. Perhaps the best would be to remove the possibility of a gf role, but the way this played out (with rayn claiming cop a few hours into D1) might have bungled that up anyways.
E: maybe the solution would be to downgrade the Vet to a JK and change the Parity Cop to a Cop?
On January 09 2014 06:24 Blazinghand wrote: I was thinking of this as being "town has 3 lynches, but one of them is a vigi shot instead of a lynch" kind of dealie. I was leery of giving town a regular Cop which would be potentially active D2. Perhaps the best would be to remove the possibility of a gf role, but the way this played out (with rayn claiming cop a few hours into D1) might have bungled that up anyways.
E: maybe the solution would be to downgrade the Vet to a JK and change the Parity Cop to a Cop?
Isn't that what I suggested? lol
edit: the thing with the cop is that town needs the cop to be active specifically on day 2 rather than day 3, simply because town lynch + mafia NK = mylo on day 2. But keep the gf as a possibility at least for some balance/indecision
Yeah the setup was slightly scum favoured IMO but that is probably due to how town biased I find *PROPERLY played IML games.
Basically everyone blaming each other can look at themselves because these days need to last 75 hours, and you can catch scum with infinite time.
Towns best lynch was on yamato and even then it was 20 hours too early. 7 hour or two hour days is just wasting your advantage as town in this setup.
Also the lack of effective pressure during the days on anyone other than the person being tunneled was poorly played. You are town, you control the lynch. You need to scrutinize everyone for every move they make and make proper use of the longer days that you are supposed to possess.
All in all, well played scum team. No one played well on the town side at all.
Kind of a sad game to be honest. Do people really not know how to play Instant majority lynch games properly?
On January 09 2014 06:24 Blazinghand wrote: I was thinking of this as being "town has 3 lynches, but one of them is a vigi shot instead of a lynch" kind of dealie. I was leery of giving town a regular Cop which would be potentially active D2. Perhaps the best would be to remove the possibility of a gf role, but the way this played out (with rayn claiming cop a few hours into D1) might have bungled that up anyways.
E: maybe the solution would be to downgrade the Vet to a JK and change the Parity Cop to a Cop?
I think it is fine because IML games are incredibly good for town if played correctly which counter acts what would clearly be a scum favored setup in a normal lynch game.
the thing about playing scum in a normal lynch game is that you can pace everything you do, you can time things out, you know when you need to have things done by. in IML this is impossible, so you can't organise your play... it's horrible :p
On January 09 2014 06:30 marvellosity wrote: yeah, I would add that scum definitely didn't win this because the setup was maybe scum-favoured a bit, they were good value for it.
Yeah I know that scum would have won either way, just looking to improve this setup in case I run it again. If a close game is lost due to setup imba that would be unsatisfactory for everyone.
so if I ran this again what if we had:
IML, silent nights 3 scum - goon goon RB 7 town - vt vt vt vt cop jk vigi
or similar balance? ie 3 "strong" blue roles? we wouldn't run it as Open of course, and might also want to consider options like 2 very strong blue roles like jk + 2-shot vigi, or 4 weaker blue roles so that it's not breakable by claims
On January 09 2014 05:21 Hopeless1der wrote: He can rage all he wants but I think if yamato had not gone on tilt and actually played to his best, scumteam would have been crushed. From a pure setup speculation I'd call this game town favored and with the rolls on roles even more so.
Well, it's your fault for refusing to reconsider your position on me whatsoever and ignoring the other 3 unconfirmed players in the game entirely. At least I had reads on them.
Yes. Let it be known that hopeless1der was solely responsible for getting yamato lynched. No other player had any say in the matter nor could they or yamato himself have affected the outcome in any way. All bow to the hopeless one.
I literally argued down every point someone made against me but you ignored my posts and kept repeating the same shit.
After a while I just stop trying.
To add to this, one argument I remember in specific was the stupid "town yamato would have considered himself a possible NK" thing.
Really, you need to evaluate the reasons you were calling me mafia. They were bad.
The setup was fine. I fucked up on D1 and Sentinel and Hopeless fucked up on D2. I would have solved the game if people would have given me more time on D2, i was already going to lynch kush, i jsut wanted other people to contribute.
I love games where there are only little tiwm (MYLO D2). It forces people to play.
depending on how good you think IML is for town, you could always turn JK back into vet again or something. Or you could give scum a godfather with those 3 roles that you suggested. That might be a better solution
On January 09 2014 06:24 Blazinghand wrote: I was thinking of this as being "town has 3 lynches, but one of them is a vigi shot instead of a lynch" kind of dealie. I was leery of giving town a regular Cop which would be potentially active D2. Perhaps the best would be to remove the possibility of a gf role, but the way this played out (with rayn claiming cop a few hours into D1) might have bungled that up anyways.
E: maybe the solution would be to downgrade the Vet to a JK and change the Parity Cop to a Cop?
This isn't how balance works.
Even with a vigi to be balanced with 3 mafia you need at least 8 townies, preferably 9 or even 10.
I think the D2 LYLO (which is what happens if scum hits and the vigi misses) is pretty solid also, though it's best with IML where on D2 town can take some time to think if they need to.
What do people think of the silent nights? I actually really like them. I think a lot of night talking has the potential to be dumb. The downside is that last minute claim shenannies and crumbs that happen at night can't happen (though maybe this is an upside?)
On January 07 2014 12:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are town i would assume you would be willing to admit you made a mistake and instead of banging your head against the wall with voting for Hopeless you would say something like "okay guys, since you CC/Sent/rayn want to lynch me over Hopeless let's try it this way. At least take your votes off me, because it's clear me and Hopeless are not both mafia, let me and Hopeless give reads on Coagulation/kush/Alakaslam and discuss those reads, because there is at least one mafia in that pool".
That would be reasonable. Unless you are mafia and know when you flip Hopeless becomes "confirmed" and you don't wanna out your scumbuddy.
So why are you being stubborn and not taking different approach?
When you started doing stuff i reconsidered. Then, when i ESPECIALLY stated i want to hear from ALL of other people (Slam,Hopeless,kush,Coag), ALL of those people decided to hammer. + Sentinel, that was the worst vote of D2.
On January 09 2014 06:44 Blazinghand wrote: I think the D2 LYLO (which is what happens if scum hits and the vigi misses) is pretty solid also, though it's best with IML where on D2 town can take some time to think if they need to.
What do people think of the silent nights? I actually really like them. I think a lot of night talking has the potential to be dumb. The downside is that last minute claim shenannies and crumbs that happen at night can't happen (though maybe this is an upside?)
In any case any input on that would be great.
Night talk helps town. For example, if there was night talk in this game i could have told at least kush is mafia on N2 (but on the other hand i am not sure if thrawn could have convinced Sentinel of not being scum).
On January 09 2014 06:44 Blazinghand wrote: I think the D2 LYLO (which is what happens if scum hits and the vigi misses) is pretty solid also, though it's best with IML where on D2 town can take some time to think if they need to.
What do people think of the silent nights? I actually really like them. I think a lot of night talking has the potential to be dumb. The downside is that last minute claim shenannies and crumbs that happen at night can't happen (though maybe this is an upside?)
In any case any input on that would be great.
Night talk helps town. For example, if there was night talk in this game i could have told at least kush is mafia on N2 (but on the other hand i am not sure if thrawn could have convinced Sentinel of not being scum).
Interesting. Do you think night talk is fun/good? Like if it's a slight town helper, and we got rid of it while still keeping the game balanced in some other way (adding IML, or whatever) would that be an improvement to the fun factor? Or would it make the game less fun?
On January 09 2014 06:44 Blazinghand wrote: I think the D2 LYLO (which is what happens if scum hits and the vigi misses) is pretty solid also, though it's best with IML where on D2 town can take some time to think if they need to.
What do people think of the silent nights? I actually really like them. I think a lot of night talking has the potential to be dumb. The downside is that last minute claim shenannies and crumbs that happen at night can't happen (though maybe this is an upside?)
In any case any input on that would be great.
Night talk helps town. For example, if there was night talk in this game i could have told at least kush is mafia on N2 (but on the other hand i am not sure if thrawn could have convinced Sentinel of not being scum).
Interesting. Do you think night talk is fun/good? Like if it's a slight town helper, and we got rid of it while still keeping the game balanced in some other way (adding IML, or whatever) would that be an improvement to the fun factor? Or would it make the game less fun?
I like it because it gives you some time to recharge without having to post a whole bunch.
On January 09 2014 06:44 Blazinghand wrote: I think the D2 LYLO (which is what happens if scum hits and the vigi misses) is pretty solid also, though it's best with IML where on D2 town can take some time to think if they need to.
What do people think of the silent nights? I actually really like them. I think a lot of night talking has the potential to be dumb. The downside is that last minute claim shenannies and crumbs that happen at night can't happen (though maybe this is an upside?)
In any case any input on that would be great.
Night talk helps town. For example, if there was night talk in this game i could have told at least kush is mafia on N2 (but on the other hand i am not sure if thrawn could have convinced Sentinel of not being scum).
Interesting. Do you think night talk is fun/good? Like if it's a slight town helper, and we got rid of it while still keeping the game balanced in some other way (adding IML, or whatever) would that be an improvement to the fun factor? Or would it make the game less fun?
It helps in a sense that there is +1 townie (the night kill) to analyze the results of the lynch and votes. Kinda important especially in IML games imo.
On January 09 2014 06:24 Blazinghand wrote: I was thinking of this as being "town has 3 lynches, but one of them is a vigi shot instead of a lynch" kind of dealie. I was leery of giving town a regular Cop which would be potentially active D2. Perhaps the best would be to remove the possibility of a gf role, but the way this played out (with rayn claiming cop a few hours into D1) might have bungled that up anyways.
E: maybe the solution would be to downgrade the Vet to a JK and change the Parity Cop to a Cop?
This isn't how balance works.
Even with a vigi to be balanced with 3 mafia you need at least 8 townies, preferably 9 or even 10.
to expound on this:
The worst case is very very hard for town to deal with.
7 v 3 in the worst case is lylo at d2 if there's a vigi. WTF? It's basically like taking a regular mini game and chopping off all of cycle 1. That's fucking awful for town.
Day 1 lynches are worse than random and it's pretty easy to see why. Day 1 is the worst for town and the best for scum, statistically scum is going to mislynch the shit out of town a vast majority of the time on day 1. On day 1 town has no information-the game is about catchup. Mafia, on the other hand, know what all the alignments are and are under no particular suspicion of their own.
The worst case for mafia, on the other hand, requires a day 1 correct lynch (already very unlikely) and a correct vig shot n1 (also incredibly unlikely, but the two together is practically unheard of-when was the last time you saw that in a game?) followed AGAIN by a correct lynch on d2. Any scum team that manages that is either god damn awful or they played against the best town in existence.
A town worst case is not at all hard to imagine, given that a d1 mislynch is quite common and vig misfires are also quite common.
Even removing a vigi, the game is still not balanced correctly. The worst case is still really bad. mylo at d2 instead of lylo, still unacceptable.
Mafia scum thought 12p minis were too mafia favored because of the number of day 1 mislynches that mean town and mafia getting 3 lynches to win really isn't as fair as it sounds. Taking a whole cycle off an already mafia-favored setup is a really poor idea IMO.
e: I should have probably PMed you about it but when I read the OP and considered signing up I was pretty turned off by the setup :p
Would a 10p setup be better served by giving the town an extra cop or something so there are more claims D2? Or would it make more sense to find some way to make a 2-scum scumteam work with 10man?
Day 1 lynches are worse than random and it's pretty easy to see why. Day 1 is the worst for town and the best for scum, statistically scum is going to mislynch the shit out of town a vast majority of the time on day 1. On day 1 town has no information-the game is about catchup. Mafia, on the other hand, know what all the alignments are and are under no particular suspicion of their own.
And this is exactly why i claimed. And found 1 scum 1 town scummy as hell - 5 town reads of which 4 were correct, 2 null because they did not post (which was my fault anyways).
On January 09 2014 06:54 Blazinghand wrote: Would a 10p setup be better served by giving the town an extra cop or something so there are more claims D2? Or would it make more sense to find some way to make a 2-scum scumteam work with 10man?
No, I don't think so.
If you're dead-set on 10 players or whatever maybe you could do something weird like twist it such that D1 is a double lynch.
This forces people to be more active D1 and stuff because it has the effect of making it very important to control the lynch for both factions. In addition the KP is in control of the entire town/every player rather than in the hands of some random player that is given a gun by a PRG and some blue text in his role PM.
I don't really think throwing blues into a setup is a great way to balance it, particularly in situations like this where the worst-cases are clearly just imbalanced.
On January 09 2014 06:54 Blazinghand wrote: Would a 10p setup be better served by giving the town an extra cop or something so there are more claims D2? Or would it make more sense to find some way to make a 2-scum scumteam work with 10man?
No, I don't think so.
If you're dead-set on 10 players or whatever maybe you could do something weird like twist it such that D1 is a double lynch.
This forces people to be more active D1 and stuff because it has the effect of making it very important to control the lynch for both factions. In addition the KP is in control of the entire town/every player rather than in the hands of some random player that is given a gun by a PRG and some blue text in his role PM.
I don't really think throwing blues into a setup is a great way to balance it, particularly in situations like this where the worst-cases are clearly just imbalanced.
I'm not particularly planning to run another 10-man setup, unless it's a sequel to this game. That's because Extractor Trick lets you have 10 drones instead of 9 so I wanted to make 10-man work. Maybe 8-2 mountainous might just be the way to go.
The thing is that games smaller than 13p are really hard to balance because the lynch swings are integer swings and the game is balanced around that.
With 10p if one of the scum gets lynched he has to lynch an extra person to win the game over 9p. That's much harder than it sounds, particularly if one scum dies in the first or second cycle
I think there is a lot of randomness in what happens at night, and that has a huge effect on the outcome of the game. Hitting the vet n1, which wasn't even our fault really, completely boned us. And in any normal game we would have lost. D2, 6v2 with 3 confirmed town. So out of 5 possible scum , you have 2 chances to lynch one. That is a really easy scenario for town.
On January 09 2014 07:08 wherebugsgo wrote: The thing is that games smaller than 13p are really hard to balance because the lynch swings are integer swings and the game is balanced around that.
With 10p if one of the scum gets lynched he has to lynch an extra person to win the game over 9p. That's much harder than it sounds, particularly if one scum dies in the first or second cycle.
huh?
7-2, scum gets lynched, 7-1, nk 6-1 town gets lynched 5-1, nk 4-1 town gets lynched 3-1, nk 2-1 town gets lynched mafia wins, total = 1 mafia lynch and 3 town lynch
8-2, scum gets lynched, 8-1, nk 7-1 town gets lynched 6-1, nk 5-1 town gets lynched 4-1, nk 3-1 town gets lynched 2-1, nk 1-1 mafia wins, total = 1 mafia lynch and 3 town lynch
On January 09 2014 07:08 wherebugsgo wrote: The thing is that games smaller than 13p are really hard to balance because the lynch swings are integer swings and the game is balanced around that.
With 10p if one of the scum gets lynched he has to lynch an extra person to win the game over 9p. That's much harder than it sounds, particularly if one scum dies in the first or second cycle.
huh?
7-2, scum gets lynched, 7-1, nk 6-1 town gets lynched 5-1, nk 4-1 town gets lynched 3-1, nk 2-1 town gets lynched mafia wins, total = 1 mafia lynch and 3 town lynch
8-2, scum gets lynched, 8-1, nk 7-1 town gets lynched 6-1, nk 5-1 town gets lynched 4-1, nk 3-1 town gets lynched 2-1, nk 1-1 mafia wins, total = 1 mafia lynch and 3 town lynch
ah you're right, I think I miscounted somehow
e: although there is a no lynch option in the 10p case, if that's allowed, that allows town to extend the game by a cycle.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmafia_new.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/m7mFUVs.png)
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![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/b/b9/Gastrick.JPG)
BlazingHand 
though![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dLukDfDl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/popcorn_2.gif.pagespeed.ce.oF9dvnQh0v.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gCyZq8sl.jpg)
I'll gladly take confirmed town status though ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/l9chR3K.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iHlJwKC.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/npQsxl2l.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KVapGwZ.jpg)
