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On January 05 2014 17:10 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2014 16:59 yamato77 wrote:
No one is confirmed town for claiming anything, for starters. did you read the game? because sent, rayn, cc are 100% confirmed and that's not even an opinion.
This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed.
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
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On January 05 2014 17:12 kushm4sta wrote:
yamato, reread alaka's filter and tell me about how he is the most townie player in this game
Basically, he's clearer and more to the point than I've EVER SEEN him be. I trust this read quite heavily.
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On January 05 2014 17:59 kushm4sta wrote:
like he's being clear but not about finding scum
Honestly, I came into the game expecting to not even understand him. It's enough for me that he's readable and that I can follow his thoughts. I'm not lynching him.
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Yeah, kush, you're wrong.
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On January 05 2014 18:49 Hopeless1der wrote:
Yamato didnt consider that scum might shoot him...where is his town ego? I'm calling shenanigans. Dudes scum.
I did nothing D1 at all, basically, and have been accused of being mafia since the start of the game by multiple different people.
This does not hold up under scrutiny.
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I have the time today. Take your votes off me and give me time to work.
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On January 06 2014 03:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 03:51 kushm4sta wrote:On January 06 2014 03:39 Alakaslam wrote:On January 06 2014 02:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
If Yamato is red then Hopeless super town and we pretty much win the game. This is a great reason to plynch Yamato, ASSUMING THAT IS TRUE- can you back your statement up Cheesecake? However, I will read Yamato for myself now. a great reason to lynch yamato is some half baked connection theory??? ok.. Sometimes I can't even believe the scummy shit that comes out of people's mouths and no one else notices it. Yamato said he was busy. He said his activity would pick up soon. Give him time to return and do something for jesus sakes. We've given him way more than 8 hours Show nested quote +On January 05 2014 05:21 yamato77 wrote:On January 05 2014 04:22 Hopeless1der wrote:
Oh, complete conspiracy theory, mafia shot their own to be able to claim medic and vig for themselves. this is still a possibility, by the way. I'll be back later (in about 8 hours). DON'T LYNCH ANYONE WHILE I AM GONE. After my shift today, I am off for two days and can totally devote the time to solving this game for certain. He promised he would be solving this game by now?
I did have to sleep last night at some point after staying up until 5AM.
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So, let's start by addressing the accusations leveled at me on page 22 from Rayn and Hopeless. Most of the game seems content sheeping this reasoning, so I have to shoot it down so I can establish the townie base on which I can push my platform.
On January 05 2014 19:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well you are mafia because the only post where you give any sort of reads is a post where you doubt all the players in the game. Including the blue claims, which means there must be more blues or your post is completely useless. If there are no more blues than the climed ones it cannot be possible that the claims are mafia. You are not trying to resolve this situation by asking the real blues to claim (which would solve the game since we have a mislynch), therefore your only real post in this game is completely bullshity.
You, yamato, are one of the most obvious town players there is on the planet. You have opinions as town, at least when the game is on D2 and there are two flips which one of them is mafia, and night actions to analyze. The only thing you can come up with is a bullshit theory about scum shooting their own and all the blues in the game fakeclaiming with no counter claims.
This is like the most obvioius mafia catch in the game.
I doubted the blue claims because instantly believing claims in a semi-open setup is pretty silly. I had not yet thought about any of them seriously when I posted at the start of the day. The reads I posted then were, as I said before, formed mostly overnight during the silent phase, and done hastily mostly as my own notes.
As you can see later on, I did consider the claims and came to the conclusion that of the three, I trusted you the least because of how you have been playing today and the unconfirmed nature of your claim. However, I also very clearly came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth lynching you today, rather that I should focus on the unconfirmed players.
Of those four, Slam is the towniest. Other people disagree, but he is obviously trying this game and appears to be thinking things through in a clear manner. I have explained this at length, so it's not worth discussing further, we are not lynching him today.
Kush is the next towniest. I had no read before today, but he's put in real effort today and actually seems to be thinking about my alignment. I don't think scum kush fights my lynch at all, let alone as hard as he has today.He simply has no reason to.
Between Hopeless/Coag, Coag is actually townier, but not by much. Both of them could definitely be mafia, but I feel like lynching Hopeless more. I'll explain my Hopeless read at length later on.
On January 05 2014 21:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So this is what yamato is suggesting.
There are three blue claims. Me, Mr.SexyCake, and Sentinel can't all be mafia, so there are 2 scenarios he is considering:
1) Mr.CC and Sentinel are both fake-claiming and i am telling the truth. This can't possibly be true because that would mean there would be another blue claim and they would have shot their own scumbuddy. Town mislynched on D1 so instead of trying to mislynch on D2 they are giving town a mislynch by shooting their scumbuddy and instantly losing the game if someone claims blue on D2 (if someone claims we lynch one of Sent/CC or the blue claim - if the blue claim turns up blue, scum lose). This is ridiculosu to even consider.
2) I decided to fakeclaim parity cop 1h into the game instead of just not claiming. This makes no sense given that yamato knows how confident i am at my scumplay. Let's entertain a scenario that i did something very stupid (which i would never do) as mafia. The only reason i would do that as mafia is to assume there is no parity cop in the game - because one-one trade is ridiculous in a game where i can just mislynch 2 townies and win the game. There is no counter-claim. I have gained the town credit i was looking for. Good. What's my next move. I decide to buss my teammate thrawn by asking a vigilante to shoot him on N1. I already know there is no parity cop in the game because noone counter-claimed me, so the reasonable assumption is that there is a vigilante in the game. So i made a stupid and a risky claim that could end up in a 1-1 trade, when it worked, i make a stupid move that risks my scumbuddy being shot or lynched on D2 for town-credit i have already gained from my fake claim. In addition to all this stupidness thrawn, my scumbuddy, does not give me the town credit from my fake claim (which was the point of my scumteam in the first place) but instead attacks me and we go 1vs1 with him ensuring we pretty much tunnel each other on D2 - that will most likely end up in one of us getting lynched. So me, raynpelikoneet, did this as mafia, instead of... just lynching townies and playing scum as i normally do, by controlling the thread. Ridiculous.
Based purely on yamato even considering something this stupid he is mafia, 100%.
I've addressed the claim situation, you're taking this a bit far. You fakeclaim often as both alignments, I do not trust you at all in any situation involving claims.
On January 05 2014 22:38 Hopeless1der wrote:This post is from TL LXIII where BH tried to use an RNG lynch as his mayoral campaign. Show nested quote +On November 16 2013 08:58 Blazinghand wrote:Hey so before we go all pant-head here I will upgrade to sock-head and push for an RNG lynch So here's what happens 1) you elect me mayor 2) I will lynch the guy via RNG as determined by this post (the one you're reading right now)'s post count modulo 31. Since so many people are posting at once on TL it's impossible for us to know what's going down. I've done this before. It works. For RNG, this post will be used for generating a random lynch. The # in the upper left corner can be right-clicked and used to access the absolute TL post # for this post. That number mod 9 is the random lynch. 1 =Oats, 2 = rayn, etc, all the way up to 8 = holyflare and 0 = sloosh.
The reason we use the absolute TL post number is that posts are constantly being made, so the number is truly random. We turn it into a number 1-9 by taking that number mod 9. What is mod? effectively, it's the remainder after division. For example. 10 mod 9 = 1. 11 mod 9 = 2. 18 mod 9 = 0. 19 mod 9 = 1. and so on.
Basically, this generates a random number 1 through 9. I am in favor of the random lynch (though am somewhat interested in a policy lynch today as well-- TL does not do this enough. I will start off by voting for the random lynched based on THIS POST. In this case, 1 = BC 2 = Mattchew 3 = Sharrant 4 = VE and so on all the way up to... 30 = BH 0 = Oatsmaster (since a multiple of 31 modulo 31 is 0, not 31). From that same game, here is yamato's reactions to NOT getting made mayor and being subsequently shot N1. Show nested quote +On November 18 2013 06:49 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, so I've caught up to the lynch since I stopped reading yesterday due to going to my friend's birthday and then subsequently passing out for 12+ hours. FIRST and FOREMOST, I want to say that neither super nor VE have analyzed just about anyone in the game at all up to this point and yet people trusted their reads and analysis skills over mine (LOLOLOLOLOL). I should have been elected pardoner, mafia will 100% shoot me tonight.
hiss gg post Also, yamato's general opinion of me, again from LXIII Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 02:32 yamato77 wrote:On November 17 2013 02:31 Pandain wrote:
Yamato if you're mayor I think you should lynch hopeless or BH. I think Storr is good becasue he is playing pretty weird and he is playing the newb card so much when he really shouldn't and it's becoming really disconcerting especially since he also ran for mayor. Why hopeless? I mean, he's always useless.
This is thin. Many people have used my extremely good town games against me when I have a slow start. I don't always play the same and I don't always have the time to devote to being super town. I know the difference between when I've been playing well and look townie and a game like this where I am under fire most of the time. Look at D1 of Thug Life, for an example of a town game similar to this one.
As for my opinion of you, yes, you are often useless, HOWEVER, you are tunneling me blindly on ridiculously thin grounds based on ONE GAME of meta. You are not this bad of a town player. Plus, as was pointed out by Kush, you were fishy with your opinion of gumshoe D1 and have also sheeped Rayn hard today in calling me mafia, which is a sharp turn away from your early posts where you say I deserve time. It just doesn't add up unless you are mafia.
On January 05 2014 22:52 Hopeless1der wrote:If you have time, or happen to remember LXIII, yamato is absolutely capable of providing a compelling and eloquent argument. He has multiple large posts that arent simply a summary they are brief analyses of players that demonstrate critical thought and scrutiny. In this game, his list posts are lacking in this regard. I especially have a problem with the fact that he has a documented history of thinking I'm generally useless and has found sufficient reasoning in "my filter" to say I should be lynched with fire.
As rayn already noted, Yamato has been trying to cast doubt on the blueclaims Show nested quote +On January 05 2014 17:29 yamato77 wrote:
This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed. There are no counterclaims, that is evidence by itself. Unless yamato is counterclaiming (and he hasnt to my knowledge) then the simple answer is that all the night action claims are legit. Rayn's needs to be scrutinized at this point, but imo his claim also checks out. Ergo 3 confirmed town for the sake of limiting our scope of analysis unless there are counterclaims. Show nested quote +
Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him.
Where does yamato fall on this list of townliness? No one else thinks its strange that he doesn't consider himself a viable shot? Especially after the points I pulled from LXIII about him knowing he was about to die before he was shot? Show nested quote +
If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith.
This is unnecessary fluff Show nested quote +
Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1.
rayn has covered this beautifully already here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20533299Show nested quote +That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest.
By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously. coag, kush, hopeless as possible mafia. convenient that slams missing. I guess he's being readable this game and the 3 of us aren't? You don't need to be scummy to be mafia in yamato's game, you just need to be lurk or troll and that is sufficient. .
I had explained my read on Slam multiple times by now, so that is not a point against me. You other three are the only other players worth looking at today, and I've talked about that at length earlier in this post.
Does anyone else feel the need for me to respond to anything else? If not, I'll be working through exactly why Hopeless is mafia in a subsequent post.
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On January 06 2014 05:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Also: Why did your "night reads" list have thrawn as red? I don't understand why, if you were town and had a scumread on him, you wouldnt explain it during your post when day broke. You couldnt have known thrawn would die so some explanation of this read would have been necessary
I did explain the read, he was low activity and Sentinel did point out the terribad vote. Classic scum thrawn.
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I explained this multiple times already. I have been under suspicion and relatively inactive this game. It's obviously easy enough to just push a lynch on me, as you can see.
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Any other questions? Or should I begin proving that you are mafia?
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On January 06 2014 06:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 05:18 Hopeless1der wrote:
his reasons were voting+low activity. My point is this is incredibly lazy for a town yamato. I would expect with 24 hours he would have come up with more than that. The whole post really seems last minute instead of thinking about it overnight.
I formed them hastily at 4AM, mostly for my own notes.
Is this your biggest concern or is there something more substantial I should address?
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CC, do you have any concrete reasons to believe me mafia?
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I actually don't see much in your filter besides the thrawn thing, and that's flimsy.
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On January 06 2014 06:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 06:30 yamato77 wrote:
CC, do you have any concrete reasons to believe me mafia? The fact that I know you're better than this, and you not believing the claims is retarded.
Did you read my latest posts? The claims thing is not even an issue.
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There is nothing in here that isn't factually correct. Lack of counterclaim does not prove Rayn is town, we do not know what roles exist in this setup.
On January 05 2014 17:29 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2014 17:10 kushm4sta wrote:On January 05 2014 16:59 yamato77 wrote:
No one is confirmed town for claiming anything, for starters. did you read the game? because sent, rayn, cc are 100% confirmed and that's not even an opinion. This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed. Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him. If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith. Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1. That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest. By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously.
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On January 06 2014 06:37 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 06:33 yamato77 wrote:On January 06 2014 06:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 06 2014 06:30 yamato77 wrote:
CC, do you have any concrete reasons to believe me mafia? The fact that I know you're better than this, and you not believing the claims is retarded. Did you read my latest posts? The claims thing is not even an issue. I sheep Rayn pretty much, because he is always right. I mean just look at the last lynch, so good.
Seriously, CC, if you're town, this is a stupid lynch to sheep on.
What makes you think Hopeless is townier than I am?
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On January 06 2014 06:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 06:40 yamato77 wrote:There is nothing in here that isn't factually correct. Lack of counterclaim does not prove Rayn is town, we do not know what roles exist in this setup. On January 05 2014 17:29 yamato77 wrote:On January 05 2014 17:10 kushm4sta wrote:On January 05 2014 16:59 yamato77 wrote:
No one is confirmed town for claiming anything, for starters. did you read the game? because sent, rayn, cc are 100% confirmed and that's not even an opinion. This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed. Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him. If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith. Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1. That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest. By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously. from a balance perspective rayn is cop. in a game with 3 mafia, 10 town there are usually 3 blues. this game has 3 mafia and 7 town... regardless. I do like hopeless as mafia, but rayn doesnt see it. I just know it's one of you or hopeless. cus i can't see coag / kush together?
Balance is a silly thing to rely on, but I will say that I haven't exactly been chomping at the bit calling rayn a liar, either. It's simply good play to not just believe claims without thinking critically about them. I don't exactly think he's lying, I just think it's better to consider him independent of his claim at the moment, which STILL puts him outside of the players I want to lynch into today.
Do you disagree that Slam/Kush are townie? If so, why? In the mean time, I will explain my hopeless read at length.
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