EPTOn January 29 2014 07:54 marvellosity wrote:
Wave why are you buying any of this nonsense?
Wave why are you buying any of this nonsense?
Cause he knows the reality of the situation, even if his mind is telling him not to believe it.
[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia - Page 7
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Cause he knows the reality of the situation, even if his mind is telling him not to believe it. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 29 2014 07:57 Toadesstern wrote: I'll punch you if you get yourself modkilled Vote for mafia. You know it in your heart what's true. | ||
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Foolishness
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On January 29 2014 07:58 kitaman27 wrote: Sorry bud. GG ##Vote Foolishness Don't do it just because I'm second in line on town lynch list in Database thread -_- | ||
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Foolishness
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Foolishness
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You should be ashamed of yourself. | ||
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Foolishness
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gg | ||
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Foolishness
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On February 01 2014 08:37 WaveofShadow wrote: Legitimate question here: Did Holy swapping out affect the game? I'm not trying to place any blame or anything here, just pondering hypotheticals. Maybe, a lot of people were on to him at the time. All things considered though I commend him for trying to play to his town meta and not his usual mafia behavior. I was confident about my read on him which is why I thought Toad was town more than anything. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On February 01 2014 09:36 Toadesstern wrote: btw I am not sorry about lynching foolishness anymore. Remember the last game we played together? The one where I drama-queened? That one post from you like 3 hours into the game that I only mentioned later on? I found that instantly and had you as mafia because of that, thinking to even claim just to get you lynched 3 hours into the game. Instead I pm'ed foolishness to get an outsider's opinion about it. He told me you're most likely some weird townie with a plan, I just keep watching you but you're probably just town! So I didn't proceed to get you lynched! Had to pay him back for that one. That is quite a convoluted way and reason to get revenge on someone. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Of particular interest would be the video here where I explain the behavioral analysis process and how to go about it, using Kitaman as an example (thank god I was right about his alignment). If nothing else I would recommend watching this video so that players can learn how to analyze someone based on past behavior both efficiently and effectively. It was a lot of work but 100% worth the effort, thanks to all that helped me or attended the discussion  | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On February 06 2014 10:04 gonzaw wrote: WHY DO PEOPLE ALWAYS CALL ME GUN-SAW ITS WEIRD AS FUCK  I call you Gone - suh On February 06 2014 09:53 gonzaw wrote: Wow, no wonder you didn't have time to post at all in the thread. You could have given a heads up  Yeah that was the issue...I wanted to advertise it cause I'm sure there are plenty of people who would want to participate or watch while it was going on, but if I advertised it then I was at risk of the other 10 players (and their shadows) finding out about it. And that would give away my role and my shadow immediately. Even on the smurf stream I had people accidentally run into it...I got a few messages on twitch (both on my main and that account) from random people like, "Yo Foolishness I was searching up mafia stuff on twitch and found this...it looks like you're playing a mafia game? what is this?" and had to promptly | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On February 06 2014 10:32 WaveofShadow wrote: I dunno I find myself disagreeing with a lot of this analysis and the way it's done. It's interesting to listen to from another POV to be sure, but if you can go through everything as meticulously as you did and still be incredibly wrong about so much, it doesn't give me a lot of hope that there are objectively 'good ways' or 'bad ways' to go about reading/posting at all. Random thoughts: You have so much faith in meta it's astonishing to me. Somehow I get lumped into 'bullying the thread to get who I want lynched' with gonzaw and yet the D2 VE lynch.... Kita analysis was very interesting but I can't honestly be sure if you're right because you went about it the right way or because you 'just happened to be right.' If you read my posts you notice that it doesn't just boil down to doing behavior analysis, but it's combining the analysis with their current thread posting. My analysis posts always have a big section looking at their posts from the current game without regard to their past behavior, just analyzing if they made the post from a town or mafia point or view (what were they accomplishing when they wrote this post). That has nothing to do with looking at past behavior. There is no technique or rule that will get you to know if someone is town or mafia 100% of the time. If there was such a thing then the game wouldn't be fun to play in the first place. It's not just one thing that makes someone mafia but a combination of different aspects of their play. Finding mafia means building a case against a person, not just looking out for one specific thing they do or don't do. Behavior analysis aids in the case building and allows you to either strengthen (or weaken) your case against someone. It is not an absolute way to find a mafia, and it never will be (nor have I ever claimed it is). Of course it's going to be wrong sometimes, and of course I'm going to be wrong when using it sometimes (either cause I misused the tool or it wasn't the proper tool to use in the first place). Just in the same way you're going to be wrong when analyzing someone purely on their current posts in the thread. People will always surprise you and this is no different. It's okay to be wrong as long as you know why you're wrong because that's what will really make you better. Again, it is a tool to aid in finding mafia, not the absolute method for catching scum. That it why it is always combined with their current posting and thread agenda. One or the other is not sufficient in itself. Your disbelief in it is a big reason that's preventing your play from drastically improving. I'm not saying that to be mean or criticize you or anything like that, just letting you what I see from your town play over a variety of games. If you were to use this tool in aid of your analysis and posting style that you already have your success rate would improve. And I mean, even if you want to disbelieve in it that's fine but it is clearly a process that does work (or at least have strong benefits). There is a reason that there are plenty of good players here that are known for being good that do this stuff, such as myself and Kitaman, and then also older veteran players like Ver, Qatol, MrBabyHands. Even players who aren't big on it still use it to reinforce their ideas. Marvellosity is not a big analysis player, but he'll still back up his claims and use the information to achieve his goal with his posting. Mafia is a game where the only limitation is your own imagination. As you said, there aren't real "objective" ways to go about reading/posting. Instead it's about the patterns of reading/posting or building a case that are good and bad. For example the General Guide To Mafia never instructs you to do X or Y if you are town or mafia. Rather it's about following a pattern of reading/posting/making a case (prove to the town you are innocent, make all your posts meaningful, use your vote in a way that gathers information. Or organize your team in such a way, balance your survival with your agenda, make your night kills in such a way that helps you). And that's what makes the game so great. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On February 06 2014 10:44 gonzaw wrote: I find it funny Foo only has 2500~ posts, yet he's been around since like prehistory (in TL Mafia time) lol Well in the olden days there were never post requirements and it was normal for someone to post once a day (as either town or mafia). I've never been a big thread poster in the first place. Almost all the games used to be PM games and I prefer to primarily work in PM land. I do that because it fits my style of play and it's what I do best; there's nothing wrong with being a big thread poster, you should play to your strengths and my strengths are working behind the scenes and only posting when necessary or to bring new information to the thread. lol in the very first game I played here I was town and the town lost. In the endgame post the host said "The mafia MVP is X" and when I read that my first thought was literally, "who the hell is that?". I had forgotten that person was in the game cause they hardly posted. When I read it I immediately went back to the player list in the OP cause I didn't believe that person was in the game. | ||
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On February 06 2014 11:30 kitaman27 wrote: Toad would have been ecstatic if someone dedicated an hour to talking just about him. He dreams about that kind of stuff. I found it kinda funny that when Foolishness said Kita (rhymes with Cheetah), he got it right, but whenever he refereed to me as kitaman, the pronunciation randomly changed. Also, let it be known that one line posts mean I'm confirmed town. Foolishness has spoken. The blatant anti-mafia database propaganda was concerning, but I'm willing to forgive him for his ignorance. Overall, I thought the analysis was pretty spot on. I can think of certain games that could have led him to the exact opposite conclusion if he happened to read those filters, so I think the most important thing with a meta read is that you base it off a reliable sample, rather than draw conclusions based off a 1 game comparison. It's too bad day three turned out to be Foolishness vs Prom, rather than Foolishness vs marv. It's cause I'm under the impression your last name is Kita (which I assume is pronounced Kee-tuh), but for some reason Kitaman (kit-uh-men) rolls off the tongue better than (Kee-tuh-man). The database thing was mostly a joke =P And yeah, you can definitely mess things up a lot if you look at the wrong games. Ideally you want to look at all the games the person has played, but nobody except VE has the time to do that. That's why I like to get two games as town and two games as mafia (or 3 if the person has played a lot). For me I find that's a good balance between getting a good read and feel for their play without spending 8 hours reading someone's games. On February 06 2014 11:43 gonzaw wrote: A little bit too late don't you think? Nah it's all good. We're all here to learn and to help others learn. | ||
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