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On January 26 2014 09:47 Foolishness wrote:
And I'd suggest you answer that question very carefully.
Don't see how that question is that relevant.
On January 26 2014 08:56 Foolishness wrote:
Question for you now: this isn't the first time I've explained something and you said you were "not convinced". Furthermore, when I bring up facts and thoughts about the game thus far you seem to ask questions about other related things instead of bringing up my points directly and either refuting them or disagreeing with them. This tells me that you are actually in agreement with a lot of things that I'm saying and are just trying to look for things about me that may or may not be there. Are you so concerned about the slim chance of me being mafia that you are willing to sacrifice the good of the town just to make sure?[/QUOTE]
It's not so slim now.
Just based on stuff posted about people, I'd say there are more "solid" cases against you than against WoS or kita right?
Certainly more than against kita.
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EBWOP:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2014 09:59 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 09:47 Foolishness wrote:
And I'd suggest you answer that question very carefully. Don't see how that question is that relevant. Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 08:56 Foolishness wrote:
Question for you now: this isn't the first time I've explained something and you said you were "not convinced". Furthermore, when I bring up facts and thoughts about the game thus far you seem to ask questions about other related things instead of bringing up my points directly and either refuting them or disagreeing with them. This tells me that you are actually in agreement with a lot of things that I'm saying and are just trying to look for things about me that may or may not be there. Are you so concerned about the slim chance of me being mafia that you are willing to sacrifice the good of the town just to make sure? It's not so slim now. Just based on stuff posted about people, I'd say there are more "solid" cases against you than against WoS or kita right? Certainly more than against kita.
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Well, that big wall of text doesn't really tell me much Foo.
I don't want a 10 page analysis of you being town, I want a 10 page analysis of WoS and kita being scum
You made a case on WoS only on D1 and early D2. WoS made lots of posts, posted new reads, new cases, made more effort, had more activity, etc etc since then.
You never mentioned kita either before, yet now he "makes a lot of sense as scum". You say that without any reasoning behind it at all.
You keep making walls of text that say nothing basically. Like this one right there, you spend paragraphs basically telling us you figured out the game, that scum are manipulating us, that we should not waver on our stances, bla bla bla.
Where are the reads? Where are the cases? Where is the attempt to push town forward?
In most of the posts you make I get the same feeling. You just go on and on about some stuff, but I see little actual justifications based on the thread. Little quotes, little reasoning, etc. Just speculation (based on you being town most of the time), tangents, and some other kinds of stuff.
Now that you've (I hope) finished reading the thread. What about the other posts from WoS?
You only mentioned his "VE town and Prome scum" posts. What about the rest? Do they not tell you anything else and you keep the same exact read on him?
His activity and engagement of the thread, and let's say, "motivation" throughout this whole D2 is what made me think he's townie, and made others back off him. Do those aspects tell you nothing about him? You think he's faking them as scum? If so, show us why or why not.
On January 26 2014 10:01 Foolishness wrote:
Also, did I say that HolyFlare was my top scumread?.
On January 23 2014 07:11 Foolishness wrote:
sandroba is not a good lynch when Promethelax and HolyFlare are still alive.
On January 23 2014 09:04 Foolishness wrote:
Thus I am in the belief that the votes on sandroba were mostly, if not 100%, town. Including my top suspect Promethelax.
Process of elimination:
1)Holy+Promethelax should die
2)Promethelax is town
3)Therefore, Holy should die.
On January 26 2014 10:08 Foolishness wrote:
The people that voted for sandroba are town. WoS is mafia. Kitaman as his partner makes a lot of sense.
It won't make sense until you show us it does. Because frankly, I don't see it.
On January 26 2014 10:01 Foolishness wrote:These posts by HolyFlare are what irked me + Show Spoiler +On January 21 2014 23:20 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 23:14 gonzaw wrote:
No marvy im talking about that other game you talked about in the Mafia Awards thread i think (was it Msrio mafia or aomwthing?)
Well holy maybe you could chill down and wait till i get home and finally be able to read the thread. This little chat im having now is mostly to show my process of thougth while i read the thread and have little info and whilr i gain more info. Its a good way to establish one's towniness Well I'm sorry if it comes across as antagonism. I just find it odd that your contribution in your work time would be to mention someone that has little to no posts that are suspicious as hell rather than read the rest of the thread and portray your fresh ideas when you are home. I will take a step back and let you do your thing though. I have yet to play with everyone here so will learn your meta eventually. On January 22 2014 06:13 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 06:00 Hapahauli wrote:Realistically though, what is your opinion of Gonzaw's style? I haven't played with him before and I'm not in right now so can't check up on it.
Why is he spending so much time on foolishness? This is such a strange question. 1) Why are you talking about him spending so much time on foolishness, when you haven't addressed any of his arguments? Especially... you know... the largest post in the thread currently? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=18#3592) What is relevant about gonzaw's style so far? He's posted the most content in the thread and has done the most scumhunting of anyone. I don't know how you could raise any questions about his style given what he's posted. 3) Your attitude on Foolishness makes no goddamn sense. In this post, you're deflecting attention from him and puzzled on how gonzaw could spend time on him. Why is he spending so much time on foolishness? ...yet in your posts addressed to me, you repeatedly call foolishness sketchy, scummy, and are generally suspicious of him and his sparse posting. What gives? I do not want to participate in a discussion based on a person with 4 posts, it is futile. Foolishness has posted nothing and gonzaw is spending his entire time focusing on that person. I want to know what Gonzaw is like in other games, does he tunnel like that, does he declare he is not reading the thread till he gets home only to still spend his time on futile research? These are all questions I would like to know the answers to based on people's previous games with him. Just because he has put effort in and has posted does not make him towny. I asked that question specifically to kita because I think me and him are on the same wavelength (he asked gonzaw how long it took him to do the foolishness meta post - what I assumed to be seeing how he was allocating time) and I would like him to elaborate on his thoughts. I have no attitude towards foolishness other than my dislike for his unexplained reads. It's not scummy, it's not towny, I want to know his reasonings before I take my read further. Could he be scum? Yes. Could he be town? Yes. I do not know and cannot know until he posts, so of course my attitude to him would be a net null read. Because I felt like he was dodging questions and not contributing to the conversation. For some questions his response was just, "got nothing cause I don't know this guy" and I did not feel like he cared about this game.
Foo, these are the points about Holy you mentioned before
On January 22 2014 09:22 Foolishness wrote:
At this moment I feel that Promethelax or HolyFlare should be lynched today. Gonzaw's catch on Holyflare's contradiction is really damning and I'm almost ready to pull the trigger just on that. HolyFlare's defense did feel a bit contrived and forced? He did bring up some good points but at the same time I don't feel like he said all that much. That may just be confirmation bias at this point though.
I had HolyFlare on my question mark list since yesterday because as I said it felt like he was here posting but I couldn't remember anything he did and that is troublesome. Gonzaw I brought my arguments against you when you brought forth the analysis against me and I still stand by what I said. However I would not lynch you since you are actually here and posting and bring new information to the thread (and not just information about Holyflare either). There's no reason to doubt your alignment at this point especially if this posting rate keeps up. Same with Austin as well.
That bolded bit made me think you had him as like almost sure-fire scum. I mentioned that contradiction, where Holy kept saying that we should pressure people that were lurking, yet he went balls against me when I pressured you Foo (linky: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=23#442 )
Did this case really make you think he's scum? Based on what you are posting right now it seems it didn't (you don't mention it). If you reread my case now, do you get new thoughts about Holy or something?
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Foo, if I'm being honest, I get the feeling it's you trying to muddle up the waters and stuff.
I don't see you being direct about anything. At one point you call WoS scum, then you call Toad+WoS possible scum team, then you call VE+WoS possible scumteam. Then you back off and just call WoS scum, then now you, out of nowhere, call WoS+kita scum.
You think Holy is sure scum at first, then you still want him dead by the time sandro dies, then you don't mention him at all, then now you mention you thought at some point he might be town but never bothered to tell us that.
You make walls of text with apparent justifications, and going on about the "sandro vote means I'm town", which is immediately followed by "actually it's possible I am scum and Prome town", which you then kind of confuse us by still calling you apparent town from the sandro vote.
Dunno, I don't remember anything "clear" from you Foo, you keep confusing me over and over.
Kind of like this:
On January 26 2014 10:01 Foolishness wrote:
Furthermore, you are asking me a lot of questions and at some point you need to make up your mind. Because this cannot and will not continue. We will be running in circles with these questions instead of doing something productive, sooner or later we will be distracting the town. Eventually we're both going to get frustrated at each other (or someone else will get frustrated) and we will start yelling. And this is exactly what the mafia want. They want me getting pissed off at you so I get mislynched, and they want you paranoid at everyone because that's what they need in order to win at this point. You and I and everyone else all know this. I'm not going to let the mafia control my thoughts and you should do the same.
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On January 26 2014 10:33 Foolishness wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 25 2014 09:35 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 00:08 kitaman27 wrote:On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote:
Austin and sandroba might as well be afk until 3 pages ago, but since coming to the thread both have had strong appearances. I'm okay with them right now because they have brought things to the thread This is the post that still bothers me the most about Foolishness when he groups austin and sandroba in his null reads. Foolishness, I know you stated several times that you were treating sandroba as wait and see, but what are the "strong appearances" and "things brought to the thread" that you are referring to with sandroba's posts. I mentioned earlier that I disagreed with his assessment, but you didn't reply. Could you please point out what you were seeing? This is from a while ago, but his posts I saw when I made that post were: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=20#381http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=21#408And I thought these were fine at the time. A lot of you seem to think that I'm doing things 12 hours after they happened when in reality it's been a lot closer. I saw sandroba and austin both come to the thread and start posting, and I didn't post long after that (a few hours at most). As I said, my mindset was, "well they've been kinda afk so far, but as long as they keep posting I don't have an overwhelming reason to suspect them". Look at my list where I put austin and sandroba in the same category; this is exactly why. Gonzaw kinda brought this up here but let's go through these scenarios cause it's important. Scenario 1Foolishness is mafiaPromethelax is mafiaYes, after seeing that my case on WoS during day 1 didn't have as much merit as I thought at the time, I immediately decided to bus my own teammate. Not only that but I was also under scrutiny in the thread, why would I bring attention to another mafia member when I can push a case on someone else (HolyFlare? Marv maybe?). Better for me to just keep pushing on WoS or pick a new target, no sense is putting two mafia members under scrutiny on day 1. Speaking of HolyFlare, this is off topic from my current explanation but when I went back later on and reread his posts I thought he might be town. I don't even remember why but that's what I thought. I don't like reading into people getting replaced out so I focused my attention elsewhere. If HolyFlare is town I expect Toad to be able to prove it to us sooner and not later. And by sooner I mean end of night 2 at the absolute latest. Secnario 2Foolishness is MafiaPromethelax is townThis is the only scenario out of the three that the town should be worried about as I didn't want to switch to sandroba and even said so straight up (the reason I didn't want to was because I saw Marv move his vote and I was really sketchy about him at the time. I didn't like what I was seeing last minute and I got super scared it was just town derp switching onto another town). But as I pointed out in my earlier posts what is the mafia doing the entirety of day 1 when I'm accumulating votes? As gonzaw pointed out this would only make sense if the entire mafia team (but myself) is afk (so like, HolyFlare also mafia). Furthermore, if I'm mafia and Promethelax is town, then wtf is up with sandroba's vote 30 minutes before the deadline? His post wasn't a mafia post trying to save his buddy, that was a mafia pushing what he perceived to be a safe lynch to make his team look pretty for the future days after I flip town or Promethelax flips town. I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1. Scenario 3Foolishness is TownPromethelax is mafiaWhy the hell did sandroba push onto Promethelax when he could have easily just been like, "yo guys I've caught Foolishness as mafia in three separate games on day 1/2, this is a free town lynch"? Doesn't make sense. Secnario 4Foolishness is TownPromethelax is TownI brought this up before, but go back and read sandroba's case on Promethelax. After sandroba's vote both Promethelax and I had 3 votes apiece (if I'm not mistaken here). Mafia were very very very happy with the votes at this time. Town Foolishness is under scrutiny and about to get lynched, and second in line is another town who Foolishness (apparently well-known scumhunter) is 100% convinced is mafia. Wow find me a happier mafia team on day 1 in a normal or all-vanilla game. Sandroba was not throwing his vote down to save someone or push for any lynch. Mafia were happy with who was getting lynched that day and there was no need to do anything about it. THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH IS VERY IMPORTANTLook at this from sandroba's point of view in this scenario. The only people with votes are two townies. He drops his vote on Promethelax with the following mindset. "Let's say Foolishness gets lynched. Sweet, I just push on Promethelax the following day and tell the town, 'yeah guys you fucked that up, Foolishness is best scum-hunter NA we gotta lynch Promethelax now'. Let's say Promethelax gets lynched. Sweet, I just admit my mistake and push Foolishness the following day and tell the town, 'yeah damn sorry about that read, this guy Foolishness is definitely mafia and 100% misled the town into a bad lynch. Many people said that lynch was bad from the beginning we should never have listened to Foolishness'". No matter who got lynched sandroba was in a great position, that is until he himself got lynched instead. Sandroba's vote was not a push to get the town to do something. No, it was lazily cast knowing that both suspects were town and he could ride it through the next day.
THIS SHOWS THAT PROMETHELAX IS TOWNLook at all four above scenarios. Scenario 3 makes the least amount of sense cause then sandroba's vote is an awful mistake. Scenario 1 doesn't make sense cause that means I bussed my own teammate (when I could have easily gone after WoS from the start or anyone else) and oh btw also means Promethelax bussed sandroba last minute (keep in mind him and Hapa voted 1 minute apart so in essence they both hammered that vote). The remaining two scenarios both have Promethelax as town. Because he is. Regardless of what you think of me as well, though the above and my earlier posts should prove my innocence as well. If you guys wanna spend 9 hours going down the conspiracy theory hole then cool story bro. Or you can just look at the facts and deduce the following: Town wins if WaveOfShadow, VisceraEyes, Kitaman, and Toad all die.
Also my time is very limited today and tomorrow but I will try to be here when I can. .
This is a post that shows what I mean.
You put lots of possible scenarios. Okay, good I guess.
You come down to the "important" one:
Secnario 2
Foolishness is Mafia
Promethelax is town
This is the only scenario out of the three that the town should be worried about as I didn't want to switch to sandroba and even said so straight up (the reason I didn't want to was because I saw Marv move his vote and I was really sketchy about him at the time. I didn't like what I was seeing last minute and I got super scared it was just town derp switching onto another town). But as I pointed out in my earlier posts what is the mafia doing the entirety of day 1 when I'm accumulating votes? As gonzaw pointed out this would only make sense if the entire mafia team (but myself) is afk (so like, HolyFlare also mafia).
Furthermore, if I'm mafia and Promethelax is town, then wtf is up with sandroba's vote 30 minutes before the deadline? His post wasn't a mafia post trying to save his buddy, that was a mafia pushing what he perceived to be a safe lynch to make his team look pretty for the future days after I flip town or Promethelax flips town.
I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1.
This explanation has holes in it.
But as I pointed out in my earlier posts what is the mafia doing the entirety of day 1 when I'm accumulating votes? As gonzaw pointed out this would only make sense if the entire mafia team (but myself) is afk (so like, HolyFlare also mafia).
If your buddy is kita, then he spent all the end of D1 pushing town Prome. If your buddy is Holy, he was AFK. Nobody else makes sense as scum (WoS town makes sense, others were sandro-voters).
So, there's no real problem with this
Furthermore, if I'm mafia and Promethelax is town, then wtf is up with sandroba's vote 30 minutes before the deadline? His post wasn't a mafia post trying to save his buddy, that was a mafia pushing what he perceived to be a safe lynch to make his team look pretty for the future days after I flip town or Promethelax flips town.
What was up with sandro's vote 30 minutes before deadline? There's no contradiction with scum sandro voting town Prome 30 minutes before deadline if you are scum. That explanation you posted makes no difference, you are just assuming you are town and narrating what scum sandro would do. You didn't show you were town, you just assumed you were town and explained sandro's vote.
Here is it again, ALL of your "logical explanations" and the like have you assume you are town, and then you spend paragraphs and paragraphs creating the story around that assumption. Like here:
THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH IS VERY IMPORTANT
Look at this from sandroba's point of view in this scenario. The only people with votes are two townies. He drops his vote on Promethelax with the following mindset. "Let's say Foolishness gets lynched. Sweet, I just push on Promethelax the following day and tell the town, 'yeah guys you fucked that up, Foolishness is best scum-hunter NA we gotta lynch Promethelax now'. Let's say Promethelax gets lynched. Sweet, I just admit my mistake and push Foolishness the following day and tell the town, 'yeah damn sorry about that read, this guy Foolishness is definitely mafia and 100% misled the town into a bad lynch. Many people said that lynch was bad from the beginning we should never have listened to Foolishness'". No matter who got lynched sandroba was in a great position, that is until he himself got lynched instead.
This does make sense right? Yeah, it assumes you are town. If you drop that assumption, then scum sandro voting Prome with you as scum makes sense as well (the part from above which you misdirected into using it to your favour).
But here you are, trying to sell us this story as if it was the truth like you are some kind of salesman, with tactics like "look at this from sandroba's point of view..." and the like.
This is an example of you "confusing" us, of you "distracting" us, of you "manipulating" us. You are not clear, you don't say "If I'm scum and Prome town, it's a possibility, end", you go on and on using fallacies and taking bad assumptions trying to "convince" us it's right.
Then you go on and on about assuming both of you and Prome being town and how "it's the right thing" and the like trying to sell it to us.
I end up reading that post not having a clear idea of what you are posting. Apparently the conclusion is "I'm town", but it's not clear with all those fallacies, wrong stuff, misdirections, etc.
That's what you've been doing this whole game basically (you've wasted a lot of time with this kind of stuff).
You are not being direct, you are confusing town, bla bla bla, specially with stuff that has no relation to scumhunting.. Would Town Foo do this?
Does someone else see the same stuff I see, or am I too biased or something?
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Hmm, I guess I can blame this mislynch on marv, Prome, austin and Wave for not being around deadline.
Yeah, that'll make me feel better about myself.
Shame on you marv/Prome/austin/Wave for not being around!
Pheww...
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On January 26 2014 12:29 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 12:14 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, I guess I can blame this mislynch on marv, Prome, austin and Wave for not being around deadline.
Yeah, that'll make me feel better about myself.
Shame on you marv/Prome/austin/Wave for not being around!
Pheww... I do accept partial blame for this mislynch, and I said so---what is the point of this post?
Not feeling like shit...?
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Hmm, how about talking about kita?
Does VE's mislynch tell you anything about a possible scum kita? What about his actions near the deadline?
You can do this after you are done of course
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How about this: If you manage to have a filter bigger than mine, then I'll consider you confirmed town and beat everybody that suspects you to death.
Deal?
Posting pictures of baby seals over and over not allowed.
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Of course that was a joke.
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Anyways, is it bad that I'm kind of scared of Prome being scum now? At least right now I see WoS more townie than him to be honest.
Hmmm, I'll have to reread him.
It'd be funny if the scum team DOES end up being Foo+Prome and we bitched at VE and WoS for no reason lol.
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I think I can represent what I think Foo is doing with me with this VE quote:
On January 23 2014 06:48 VisceraEyes wrote:I'm willing to vote him - I'm just hesitant. And Foolish looks like he's trying to manipulate me and it hurts my soul. 
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Hmm, right now I'm convincing myself that Foo will indeed flip scum.
There are other little tells that I pick up that tell me "Hmm, I can really convince myself he's scum based on this". Mainly his Holy/Toad stuff.
His Holy/Toad reads are stuff that are "obviously" out of place. You've noticed it in that "case" of him I've made for sure. It's obviously out of place in a way that can convince me of that above (him being scum).
And on the other hand....
Wave, imagine Foo is scum. In this case, I'm sure you do pick up a certain association, between him and Toad right?
If Foo flips scum, what would this association tell you of Toad?
By association, I mean it from Foo's end mostly. I.e how Foo acts regarding Holy and Toad.
I have a certain theory about it, but want to know what you think first.
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Well, I think, that it's entirely possible a scum Foo used it to his advantage on a town Holy/Toad.
Holy started his play here basically defending Foo and going against me. Who is to say, a scum Foo didn't see that and say "Hmm, Holy would make a good scapegoat", and tried to frame him in an associative way?
I mean, everybody has done that at some point: See a helpless townie, and act all wishy washy about him, or buddy up to him, or defend him in "bad" ways, etc, so then other townies pick up that association and lynch him (even before you at times!).
I get the feeling, Foo's actions regarding Holy, and now Toad at the end of D2 and the start of this N2, are too "obvious". Perhaps in this sense. I mean, I picked up on them, you picked up on them. Foo knows he'll die at some point. He was the leading lynch on 2 days in a row for christ's sake. Doesn't it make sense for Foo and the scum team to frame a townie like that once scum Foo finally gets lynched?
Either way, maybe I'm looking too much into it. Maybe, maybe that "obvious" association is true. Maybe scum Foo is indeed buddies with scum Toad, and Foo is just bad at hiding it.
But actually, this is besides my point. I'm not bothering figuring out Toad's alignment with this...but Foo's.
This "obvious" association to me, feels very natural if Foo is scum with scum Toad, or if Foo is scum framing town Toad. But does it look natural if Foo is town?
Doesn't to me.
I think Foo's actions regarding Toad, whether legit (they are scumbuddies) or faked (trying to frame town Toad), speak volumes against Foo IMO.
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On January 26 2014 13:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh and that's another thing I think I should mention.
If I am wrong about Foolishness (and of course it's possible), AND he is right about the 'confirmed list,' then it means that form my perspective we have already won this game, because the only remaining possible scummers are kita and toad.
This is a pretty farfetched thing for me to try to accept, and because I will apparently never be able to convince Foolishness of my towniness, he will never consider the though of a kita/toad scumteam and will not perform that 'flawless analysis' we need to convince everyone else and win.
I'll repeat what I said on N1:
On January 24 2014 05:57 gonzaw wrote:
Anyways, so here's my proposal guys:
gonzaw
marv
Hapa
austin
Prome
Foolishness
These guys are untouchable for now. They only become touchable if we misslynch someone. If we keep lynching scum, then they keep being untouchable. If we do misslynch someone, it is proof we were wrong, thus we reconsider those guys (Foo in particular). But until then, talking shit about them and stuff will only clutter up the thread when we have other suspicious dudes to focus on.
Do people agree (bar VE)?
Can simplify things a lot. We could discuss leaving Foo in it or out of it if you want, but at least the other 5 do go.
We should follow the bold.
We misslynched right now. We only have 1 more mislynch to spare. We shouldn't really have dangerous assumptions that could hinder our winning chances. Nobody is untouchable right now, at least not just because (they can be untouchable by their own merits, like leading a scum lynch, being sexy pro-town muthafucka's, etc).
Let's tread lightly with the "confirmed list" stuff
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I thought it was a pretty good idea to start D2. It would narrow down the possible suspects, so we could focus on specific people and not have ramblings on 1000 different people at once, which would lead to a very chaotic D2. It would also work as long as we killed scum as well...because if we did, then by god it means we are doing something right doesn't it?
But if we mislynch or we arrive at N2/D3, etc, then we should drop it and play seriously, since it's not a "yeah we are obviously going to win this" situation anymore.
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This is the stuff about Foo and Toad at the end of D2 that I meant (the last one is on this N2 though):
On January 26 2014 07:40 Foolishness wrote:
...
For the remaining three players I could potentially see any of them being together at this point. I haven't read Toad's filter closely, and everytime I read HolyFlare's I go back and forth on whether I think he's mafia or town. At the moment I think Toad is least likely mafia out of the three. I still think it could make sense for you (Toad) to be with either VE or WoS or sandroba but I don't have anything hard to give you in regards to that.
On January 26 2014 07:50 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:46 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 07:40 Foolishness wrote:
[... snipped out for thread's sake...] only talking about the part that answered me. Than what about this: On January 25 2014 10:15 Foolishness wrote:On January 25 2014 10:09 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 25 2014 10:06 Foolishness wrote:On January 25 2014 09:57 WaveofShadow wrote:I think it is even more apparent through the entirety of day 1 as a whole. Where is my mafia team to save me? Are they just afk (we all know mafia games on TL are never that easy)? The only one trying to deflect votes off of me was me. Sure, kitaman and austin both said I was town, but there was never a hard push. It seemed like their attitude was, "yeah Foolishness is town I'm sure, but I got nothing better to propose". Kitaman's push on Promethelax was mediocre at best (in terms of aggressiveness, not content). I was 100% on my own for all of day 1. I see absolutely zero reason why this section of your post is relevant, and I've said it multiple times before. I don't ever see mafia members actively trying to push lynches off their scumbuddies. However if you actually do think this way, maybe it explains why you as scum were trying to save sandroba? As I said above, if you and kitaman want to run down the conspiracy theory hole even after there's a boatload of evidence proving my innocence and very little evidence proving yours (and VE's, and Toad's, and Kitaman's) then that's cool when you lose the game for the town. I win games. Silly question then in regards to your last post: Which two of the four of us are scum? And 'it doesn't matter' doesn't cut it because there is no way in hell the rest of the players in this game will simply follow your instructions and lynch those 4 without considering all options. That's not a silly question. I believe it is you [note: you=WoS] and Toad. Though I go back and forth on whether it's Toad or VE. Kitaman went after sandroba a lot on day 1. He called him out early, voted on him (twice) and pushed his case. I don't see him doing that to his own scumbuddy (moreso since sandroba was inactive so his case just kept looking better over time). I might add that I've been voting WoS ever since the start of D2, you seem to be pretty certain on WoS, you see me voting WoS as well, you're torn between VE and me and you think I'm the better candidate for the 2nd mafia seat than VE becaaaaause? I didn't even realized that happened my bad lol I gave my thoughts at the time. I already said I could be very wrong on VE. I'm confident about my read on WoS. If you have the same read and gave good opinions then I got no reason to think you're mafia. As I said I've not closely read your filter because I've been focusing on WoS and the day 1 votes. I did say that I think you can prove your innocence to us by the end of night 2, and from what I've seen I don't really doubt that at this point.
On January 26 2014 07:56 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:52 gonzaw wrote:Hmmm.... Well.......maybe we should keep the lynch on VE. Toad, I don't get it: On January 26 2014 07:39 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 07:32 gonzaw wrote:
Toad, what do you think of Foo's last posts?
Me and kita are kind of on the fence with this lynch, and have enough votes to swing the lynch to either VE or Foolishness. You think VE is town then? Will you try to convince us to lynch Foo, or will you do nothing until deadline waiting for your townread to get lynched? I don't have a townread on VE, if I had one I'd be kicking and screaming. I didn't come to a conclusion on him because the same happened to me like 4 days ago and I happened to be town in that game which is giving me shivers. I'm kind of busy right now and only f5'in inbetween. I've told you guys to get on Foo, I told you multiple times so far and it's been ignored. I don't have the time to make a case right now. I DO think Foolishness is the way better lynch though and I DO think that reading VE tomorrow will be easier than today. That should already be enough if you seem to have the same problems I have with the recent stuff he has posted. Again, there's cookies over here so please come over VE basically gave up a long time ago, and I doubt he'll "pick up" and start putting effort. Why would you think reading VE will get any easier? What if he keeps doing nothing and saying he's apathetic and doing the stuff he did this D2? Will you say "Let's keep him around till D4, SURELY it'll be easier to read him by then"? I will actually vouch for Toad in that I see where he's coming from about VE being easier to read later on. But you're point gonzaw makes a lot of sense as well. Two different ways of approaching it. I'm moving my vote now because I actually have no idea what the vote count is. The case on WoS still stands but Gonzaw's point about VE makes his lynch better for the town as a whole. ##Unvote: WoS
##Vote: VisceraEyes
On January 26 2014 07:58 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:53 kitaman27 wrote:
Didn't you want to lynch Holy before sandroba? Has Toad's play changed your mind on him or is it just that WoS's and VE's play is just much worse since then? Yes I did. I thought Holy was mafia based on his posts and his replacement posts. After the lynch I went back and reread them and thought "okay I can see him as town saying these things even if they are suspect". As I said earlier I go back and forth on his posts. Toad seems like he's trying to figure things out, and even if I don't agree with his arguments he's doing things for the town and VE is not. I can't argue against VE here. I'm very confident about my read on WoS at this point, it will be reevaluated for the following day because he should be lynched asap.
On January 26 2014 10:01 Foolishness wrote:
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I'm not really sure why he went against that and started calling me mafia. Well, I see his reasons for doing so but to go against his earlier reasoning does seem a bit out of place considering it was at a time when the thread was giving me a bunch of heat. Toad, do you not believe in any of those posts you wrote before?
The bolded are obvious bits of Foo buddying up to Toad or giving him somewhat unfounded town reads.
The italics are Foo straight up saying he hasn't read Toad yet (although that last post was made after the lynch, maybe he did read Toad's filter there).
The juxtaposition of those strike me as odd, and that's what I mentioned about Foo's "association" with Toad. He explicitly says he didn't read his filter, yet makes those kind of "buddy up" defenses? Like the "I said you would prove your innocence by N2, but I don't doubt that at this point", and the "He seems to be trying to figure things out" and the like.
...yet he hasn't read his filter yet.
If he hasn't how is he making this kind of read on Toad? Feels off, feels out of place.
Like I said before, feels so in an "associative" kind of way, which I think is telling of a scum Foo perhaps.
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Toad, i think wave seems more townie, msrv thinks hes more townie, austin thinks hes more townie, kita rhinks hes more townie, orome thinks hes more townie. Im not thr only one. Im kind of worried how you dont see the same stuff as we do
Idem about Foo..but erll at least you are trying to figure it out now hes not
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On January 26 2014 10:03 Foolishness wrote:
There's no case against me lol
If I happened to miss a case against me find it and quote it for me so I can respond to it.
I'm willing to lynch Foo only based on this alone.
You have to be nearsighted to not notice all the crap posted about Foo, all the cases, all the votes, etc. Like kita said, there have been at least 4 or 5 of them (I'd say more), starting from the 18th page of this game!
This is evidence Foo is not reading the thread, or not giving enough shit about it to remember it.
On January 26 2014 22:17 marvellosity wrote:
Fool's interactions with the sand lynch were also "too obvious". Do you think Fool connected himself to his two scumbuddies like that? I said before that Fool has no problem blatantly pushing a mafia agenda, but damn.
Well, the issue is that he DID interact "too obviously" with a scum sandro, there's no denying that. Would a town Foo act that way? Because if not, the only thing left is scum Foo, yes, "blatantly pushing a mafia agenda".
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EPT
