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Actually Foo...why didn't you give a shit about getting lynched?
For instance:
On January 23 2014 07:46 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 07:41 gonzaw wrote:
There too fucking many coincidences going on. Sandro coming out of getting modkilled to get the 2nd guy with most votes and vote him. Prome coming out of nowhere, yet vote the only guy that would prevent his lynch.
Then Hapa coming out of nowhere and apparently voting Prome without having read the thread yet. Or there's a very simple explanation to what's going on here. I don't like the sandroba thing any more than you do I assure you. But he did his research.
It was 15 minutes before deadline, and you were leading the votecount 6 to 3. Yet you so casually talk about sandro and his "research" or whatever.
Don't you care at all that you are getting lynched in 15 frigging minutes? Like some said, isn't it your "meta" to not get lynched as town?
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On January 24 2014 11:19 austinmcc wrote:
Side note, just putting this in thread while trying to chart stuff out.
IF Foolishness is mafia, then mafia Foolishness and mafia Sandroba were both pushing unknown alignment Promethelax yesterday. That combo means very very very very very very very very very likely that Promethelax is town.
That also means that the ONLY people voting not-mafia on D1 were Kitaman and HF.
Foolishness alignment unknown. Votes not perfectly telling, but WoS and VE both on Foolishness, and if he were mafia and actually looking like he might be lynched, I would expect not just a Foolish push towards votes on Prome, but a vote swap from the other mafia onto Prome.
So the possibilities of the third player in a Foolishness/Sandroba/x team really get chopped down and, to me, look like they consist only of Kita.
Hmm, there is indeed that "Only 1 of VE/Foo is scum, not both" thing I mentioned and everybody ignored last cycle..
..and VE doesn't really look too good ya know? (greatest understatement of the year).
Also, you are missing Holy/Toad from there. Kita OR Toad make sense as Foo scumbuddies. Someone said last cycle that it would make sense for Holy to "waste" his vote nevertheless (and not vote Foo/Prome/etc), so as to not put his replacement in such a bad spot. If Foo is scum, it is possible scumteam told Holy to play it safe. Out of sandro, Foo, and Holy's replacement, it's the replacement that has the most chances of surviving end-game this game as scum.
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On January 24 2014 11:46 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 11:41 gonzaw wrote:
There's also the fact that Foo had 6 votes on him (2nd guy had 3), and he's just calm discussing stuff with people and talking about his sandro read and shit, 10 minutes before deadline.
Weird if he's town (like...try to prevent your own lynch dude wtf), but much weirder if he's scum, UNLESS it's some preplanned scum bullshit bus where Foo takes the fall D1 for some reason or some shit. Sure, funky on both accounts, but then that doesn't get us anywhere. I don't think it's weirder for scum, scum have more control over the lynch because they can work in concert, so regardless of what the plan is, you can actually have a plan in place to hopefully not have yourself get lynched. And while prome only had 3 votes, I had been clear that I wanted prome/sandro over foolishness, and, as things were shaping up, I was going to need to vote prome to hope to have any effect on the lynch. That makes it like...6/4/1 or whatever, meaning another two swaps and everything groovy, and you could guarantee one if any of the Foolishness voters were also scum. I think....I think I should stop going this route and just stick to HEY EVERYBODY HERE'S SOME WEIRD STUFF TALK ABOUT IT.
Doesn't make sense scum think they have the control of the lynch when one of their own has 6 votes against him 8 minutes before the day ends.
The only plan to save himself from lynch like that....is vote shenannigans. I doubt Foo would think anybody would do vote shennanies on a townie (i.e not on sandro of course).
Again, remember this stuff happened all 15-10 minutes before deadline.
Anyways, I guess both of us can rationalize anything by now, so maybe this kind of discussion is pointless.
...and you could guarantee one if any of the Foolishness voters were also scum.
Not if you just said the only possible 3rd scummy that makes sense is kita.
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Yeah, but then his 3rd buddy would basically out himself by having that voteswap. Also, because he lead the votes, he'd still get lynched there (when in a tie, the guy that had the most votes first gets lynched).
Anyways yeah let's stop.
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Foo, you need to learn how to make ad absurdum arguments.
You don't have to show that sandro's vote makes sense if you are town, you have to show that sandro's vote DOESNT make sense if you are scum.
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I mean, that's one of austin's biggest bothers with your other posts before, you always assume you are town in those narratives of yours.
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Well, there's not much we can do if the guys that are supposed to be doing the talk are not (VE, Toad, kita, WoS)
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On January 24 2014 12:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
Never fear, Wave is here.
Two things I can say with the utmost confidence right now:
1) I am NOT getting lynched today.
Oh....now you just make me want to test that!
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@Steve WoSniak: Ehmm. Seems you are trying way too hard to justify some of VE's behaviour....when it's basically injustifiable, you just say "it makes him scum" or "I'll ignore it".
I think the absolute worst thing VE has got going for him in his filter is his 'round-the-lynch' shenangians, Vote-swapping all over the place with zero justification. In my opinion however, that is the ONLY scummy thing he has going for him at this point in his filter. It's not small, but it is enough to ignore everything I've posted about thus far?
Actually, yeah, it is.
Way more important than "Does VE ragequit as scum?" speculation and "Scum VE wouldn't post shit on gonzaw with shitty reasons because he'd know it'd look bad therefore VE is town"
I also wouldn't really talk too much about that "if sandro is scum he'll do good later" stuff you both posted. Yes, if both of you are scum it's weird......but like really it seems to just have no importance at all when looking at the big picture or at stuff that matters (like....the lynch and shit)
On January 24 2014 14:31 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 14:25 austinmcc wrote:
WoS, if you're still up, can I ask you to undertake a funky made-up task for me? Pretty please?
If your answer is yes and you're up and active, when you finish going through whatever you want to go through, I'd like for you to play along with this scenario. I am a cop. I have a red check on gonzaw. I tell you this. You smack your head and go, "Aha! It all makes sense now. I should have known Gonzaw was mafia, because __________." If you so choose, you can keep going and add, "Also, now that I know the mafia team was sandroba/gonzaw/?, the third member is almost certainly _______."
EVERYONE ELSE I'M NOT A COP. I DON'T HAVE A RED CHECK.
Just curious. If it were to turn out that Gonzaw is mafia, when you look at his filter, what would give you that, "man, I should have seen this thing because it points towards mafia Gonzaw" feeling? Actually let me give a preliminary answer to that right now: I would say Gonzaw got framed. There is no way in hell I can believe that the way he has been playing currently points to a scum gonzaw---that's one conspiracy-theory-rabbit-hole I just won't fit my fat ass into. I'll read his filter *shudder* once I finish what I'm doing just to be absolutely certain but I don't see my answer changing.
It's obvious I tried to save my scumbuddy Foo by trying to get him lynched, then get my actual sandro buddy lynched, to make me and Foo look good so then I can fake having a change of heart on him and ride that town cred to victory
Of course.
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EBWOP:
I also wouldn't really talk too much about that "if sandro is town he'll do good later" stuff you both posted
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So you don't think VE randomly voting Holy for no reason, then randomly voting Foo for even less reasons, then not giving a shit and parking his vote on him, is important?
You really think stuff like him shitting on me "coming from town VE who wants to put info out there!" is more important than that?
If VE comes here and says "I'm scum we are conceding bye", are you just going to say "Oh, good ol' town VE shenannigans! Ta-ta!" or something?
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Well. Marv is the VE expert here, let's see what he thinks of those kind of stuff.
Hmm, you know...it's kind of funny, but VE hasn't FOSed marv yet. He always does that lol
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marv, does that bad defence tell you more about scum WoS or scum VE?
You know, if VE was town I think he'd be all over marv this game. Only lurker Foolishness had the balls to call marv scum this game basically (for marv "not doing anything" and "not saying anything memorable" and the like). With a town VE in this game, would that really happen? VE never mentioned marv at all this game I think (might be wrong though, but cba to check his filter im at work)
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On January 24 2014 22:50 WaveofShadow wrote:
I just find that there's a lot of 'objectively scummy' actions lately throughout TL mafia (martyring for example) that can't be used strictly as mafia tells anymore---the vote switching without reason is one example. I agree that sort of thing and the way it was done is probably more likely to come from scum here, but it's not impossible for him to have been frenetically moving around as town, and I find myself expressing way too much doubt given everything else in his filter to be comfortable singling him out as the best lynch of the day.
(Also important to consider, though it's up to you whether you want to or not, but by defending VE and doing what I am doing, not only am I drawing all attention to myself, but I am also attempting to eliminate one everyone's strongest scumreads from the list, forcing everyone to move down the list----to me.)
That might be right, you don't have to instantly assume the guy is scum by that stuff...
...but you are calling him town for it. That's a big difference, that's what doesn't make sense.
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On January 24 2014 22:50 WaveofShadow wrote:
(Also important to consider, though it's up to you whether you want to or not, but by defending VE and doing what I am doing, not only am I drawing all attention to myself, but I am also attempting to eliminate one everyone's strongest scumreads from the list, forcing everyone to move down the list----to me.)
If you want to play this game, I can play it too.
Tell me, if you and VE are scum, what possible play can you make to salvage anything this game, huh?
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On January 24 2014 22:56 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 22:51 gonzaw wrote:
marv, does that bad defence tell you more about scum WoS or scum VE?
You know, if VE was town I think he'd be all over marv this game. Only lurker Foolishness had the balls to call marv scum this game basically (for marv "not doing anything" and "not saying anything memorable" and the like). With a town VE in this game, would that really happen? VE never mentioned marv at all this game I think (might be wrong though, but cba to check his filter im at work) This is absolutely the money question (to the bolded) As an aside to your 2nd paragraph, VE was pretty muted towards me in LXIV where we were both town. I think he was in a huff that I was talking to rayn so much, although I'm not entirely sure that was the actual reason, but it's what he told me :p Town-VE and Mafia-VE buddy with marv. Town-VE attacks marv if he thinks marv is mafia, and Scum-VE won't attack marv because marv can take him apart. So that shit is kinda neutral. Going back to your first question, I'm gonna ask something to Wave instead: do you think the game-state + how other players have been talking to VE warranted a ragequit?
Well, to me your play this game on D1 may have warranted a "Town VE thinks marv is scum and will tunnel him to death" attitude perhaps. Obviously not strong evidence at all about anything, but it's interesting.
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WoS, my point is that if both you and VE are scum, you already "lost" (in a way), so you can basically do any weird strategy you want (like "obviously" hard defending your buddy for WIFOM) and it doesn't matter.
Don't see what's wrong with both of you voting Foo on D1, it's not "suicide" at all, you both voted a scummy town while your other buddy FoSed someone else.
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If you are town, I expect you not to make bad defenses of scum VE.
If VE is somehow town, I'd expect you to make a better defense of him, or counteract that by finding the hidden 2 scum we are apparently completely missing.
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But Toad is totes 100% town WoS, austin said so
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Sorry WoS, Prome+Foo+sandro scumteam still makes no sense. Made no sense when VE mentioned it, makes no sense now.
If you are town and somehow believe this, then it's better to just drop the associations and "I'll find the whole scumteam" stuff and focus on players individually.
So right now, you seem to find Prome, Foo and Toad suspicious. I take it now you think Toad is less scummy?
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EPT
