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Well austin, if you put it that way, you do seem to make me feel guilty of my town read on Foo 
Gotta admit I didn't reread his filter. But meh what do I care, night ends in a few minutes. If he's scum he just fucked himself. Don't want to believe scum Foo would play so poorly as scum, while at the same time playing so good (by making townie posts that make sense bla bla bla). Kind of the opposite of what I'd expect scum Foo to be, play good scum, while not playing good. Or something.
On January 24 2014 07:36 austinmcc wrote:
. I've been laughing this whole time because if this were around a year ago, everyone would be saying "GONZAW WAS SCUM IN LIAR GAME AND LOOKED TOWNIE AND POSTED A LOT AND HE'S DOING THAT HERE SO HE'S MAFIA AGAIN."
Ah...memories...
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On January 24 2014 07:46 Promethelax wrote:
I think terrible posts followed by good posts is a townie thing from foolish more than a scummy thing. No lie his early posting looked horrible and even worse with a Sand flip but he knows that and looks at the thread and figures he can push through on logic and big posts? I see a scum foolish just lurking himself to death there. It would be a depressing place to be as a scummer. It is one reason I like VE (okay, the only reason I like VE) he has been in the thread and actively talking with us all even if his discussion hasn't been all that productive I see him being more depressed if he is scum.
Not that that is a solid reason for a read but it is something I've been keeping in mind.
He was somewhat angry right after sandro died.
Also, dunno about you, but I see this as being somewhat depressed:
On January 24 2014 05:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well please stop gonzaw, it's literally ruining my game experience. I have no incentive to try and prove my towniness in this kind of environment.
On January 24 2014 05:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
Do you understand? I want to quit the game because of how you are treating me right now.
On January 24 2014 06:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's fine, I'm done with this game. Honestly people are too tunneled in and there's literally nothing I can do. When I try and participate it is shat on, when I try and have conversations with people it's scum claiming, I have literally no will left to play this game.
Sorry austin, you didn't make it.
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But D2 is VE's trial of fire. If he does indeed not show up at all, or does to speak of bullshit stuff like still going on about his conspiracy theory ignoring everything else, he's a surefire scum lynch.
If he comes, calms down, makes some sense....then he's still likely scum lynch, but less so. That's town's call then.
Regarding Toad: meh. D2 is his trial of fire as well (trial of...wind?).
WoS's "wonky" posts lately seem to weird me out, it's like he's going crazy or something. I cba to reread his filter again, but he's worth pressuring.
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I think mafia Foolishness makes bad posts all around. Well, of course not like that (not to shit on his scum game), but he doesn't make logical calm masterpiece-als walls of text
Also...hold me austin, I'm scared ;_;
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On January 23 2014 11:58 gonzaw wrote:
Anyways, I just remembered how scum Grey/iGrok tended to post in MTG Mini Mafia 2, where they started making "sense" and shit like in D3 or something, but were scummy/lurking/not making sense in early days (and then of course I almost fuck things up by lynching everybody but them).
Then I look at Foo this game, and see some similarities in play and evolution of the play.
I guess I won't completely rule Foo out. He was almost lynched yesterday anyways, let's see what pressure he gets now.
This might be something similar to what you are looking austin, perhaps.
I remember Grey/iGrok doing something similar as scum: Start with god awful posts, but have some good posts by D2-D3..
...dunno how that's relevant, but I saw a hint of that with Foo's play. Perhaps somehow you are not that wrong. But still, there is all od D2 ahead of us (you)
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lol
see you in heaven sweet prince
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Although I get more and more interested in the whole WoS thing. Hapatty Hapa and others mentioned good points.
Hey VE, maybe you are not such a straight D2 lynch after all (just slightly less)
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 24 2014 08:06 austinmcc wrote:
gg hapa.
I'm going to dinner in a sec, but my D2 wishlist currently reads:
(1) Get more discussion on Foolishness. Specifically about his D1, then about his play as a whole. I'd like to talk to Foolishness as well, but I will settle for discussion ABOUT him, from more people.
(2) Chat with VE. Attempt to keep people from just calling him scum for 60 hours.
(3) Chat with marv. About Foolishness/sandro and generally
(4) Chat with Kitaman, and get others to talk ABOUT kitaman. A couple posts have mentioned him looking a little worse from the sandro flip (i think?). He has posted some. But overall, just half-following and reading through thread, I don't have a strong sense of him doing stuff recently. That could be entirely wrong, but he's too under the radar for my liking, and I think his alignment and his filter make a good topic of discussion for today. Either we start pressuring him, or he's town and he gets active and gives some good posts, it's a win win to talk about kita more.
(5) Actually talk to WoS instead of the aborted chat we had yesterday.
(6) Other stuff?
I'm playing VERY thread cop this game. It looks like I'm going to continue that way. Sorry if it's annoying, within my head it's a helpful thing as long as I'm not just pooh poohing stuff and not coming up with other things to do or participating heavily myself.
(7) Watch and interact with Toad, and see what he contributes this day
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On January 24 2014 08:13 WaveofShadow wrote:Wifom and unsubstanntiated for now but this may be why hapa instead of you (if VE is actually town) Its what I didn't post earlier with all caps. Sorry for more spoeculative shit I promise ill tone it down for wjhen I'm back Eta 4 hours
Well, maybe it was to instill WIFOM into town.
Or maybe I'm just too sexy to die
Or maybe my jokes are so funny they can't wait until Postgame to hear more from me if they kill me.
Or likely that all my reads are wrong and I'm cluttering shit up I guess (that usually seems to be the main reason in other games).
Perhaps I need to do another near-deadline shenannies to get their attention.
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Toad, you already caught up with the thread right?
Would you mind us helping us with this Foolishness conundrum we seem to have?
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On January 24 2014 08:22 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 08:18 gonzaw wrote:
Toad, you already caught up with the thread right?
Would you mind us helping us with this Foolishness conundrum we seem to have? well I'm missing out on some 10 or so pages inbetween but yeah I guess. I don't really see a conundrum on Foolishness to be honest. I'd rather lynch into one of you five guys than Foolish atm. I really do not think he'd behave the way he did before deadline if he knew Sandro was mafia so either he played withough knowing his alignment or he's just town.
...wat
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You said you'd prefer lynching "you five guys". Who are these five guys, and why did you say "you"?
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...but Hapa is confirmed dead town. Do you want to lynch him?
And doesn't make much sense, you prefer lynching any of the guys leading a last minute unexpected lynch on scum, rather than Foo?
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So...did we get somewhere with the Foo thing?
On January 24 2014 10:06 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 09:54 marvellosity wrote:
I'm going to vaguely sidestep your question austin and ask you what you expect townFool to be doing since the lynch? Not much. It's night, we lynched scum, and we lynched scum in a way that would throw off some of the reads he had on the game as a whole. An updated big reads list before the night ends? Maybe. An updated big reads list in general that isn't heavily heavily heavily based on votes? Maybe. I'll admit, no great answer there. Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 09:56 marvellosity wrote:
Being able to assume you're town (when you're mafia) and make extendedly long posts from that perspective that sound natural isn't as easy as you think. I think it's much easier in this case than you're making it seem? Because he's not painting his filter as townie. He's painting a picture with just the VOTES with him as town. He doesn't have to justify past comments, doesn't have to show why he legitimately thought prome was scum when prome looks townier after the flip, all he has to do is take the votes he's been given and weave them in such a way that him being town presents a couple suspects. I dunno, I pretty much only seem to make extendedly long posts, so I'm not the best judge here. But I find there to be a distinction between a long post assuming you're town and giving all these reads, and a long post in which you set the votes in such a way that you're town and a couple people shake out suspicious.
I actually got the impression he used it to "prove" all sandro voters were town. From what I remember, he was the first one to really make a "heavy" analysis of the votes, and determine if there was mafia or town motivation behind them. I.e he was the first one to "prove" 5 townies. He didn't really present a couple of suspects, if not just by process of elimination (those that are not the 5 townies he "confirmed").
It just seems....wrong him being scum, I dunno. Like, he immediately said "this doesn't change anything about my Prome read" as soon as sandro got lynched. However, after fiddling with the votes he basically proves Prome's innocence. Why the fuck do that? Either you keep tunneling Prome, or you mention you think he's town from the get go. Why, as scum, still accuse him, but after that vote analysis change your mind? Argg.....his D1 posts are indeed a mess though (for the most part).
Anyways...LOL. We kind of reversed our positions from D1, now you are the one relentlessly going against Foo, and I'm the one defending him.
WHAT A CRAZY WORLD.
I'll reread his filter again and shit after getting home tomorrow. Hopefully VE, Toad, WoS, kita, have more thread participation by then.
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I REALLY CANT BELIEVE I AM HERE DEFENDING FOO
WTF IS WRONG WITH ME
HELP ME
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Sequence of posts I'm referring to (about the Prome thing)
On January 23 2014 08:08 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 08:05 Hapahauli wrote:
Anyway Foolish, given the flip, how likely do you think it is that Prome is mafia? Hasn't changed a thing. I'm pretty sure his vote didn't mean anything, still looking it over to be sure.
On January 23 2014 08:27 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 08:13 gonzaw wrote:
Although to be honest, marvs vote on Foo was kind of weird. That's why I said that the sandroba lynch wasn't good. Vote count: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=41#820At this vote count: Foolishness: 6 Promethelax: 3 Then gonzaw and Austin both vote sandroba. Then Marvellosity votes sandroba. Foolishness: 4 Promethelax: 3 sandroba: 3 Then Hapahauli votes for sandroba Foolishness: 3 Promethelax: 3 sandroba: 4 Then Promethelax votes for sandroba Foolishness: 2 Promethelax: 3 sandroba: 5 Technically Hapahauli had the hammer. But Promethelax voted 1 minute after Hapa did. So yes, Promethelax's vote did not count in the grand scheme of things. Considering that his vote was only a minute after Hapa, he might as well be considered a hammer vote as well.
On January 23 2014 09:04 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 08:42 gonzaw wrote:
The only thing I'm kind of scared is if actually Prome is mafia with sandro and this was some weird gambit, in which they planned on actually getting Foolishness lynched instead.
I mean, you do remember Prome's "We policy lynch lurkers no matter what!" line at the beginning of the game, and he then not doing anything at all regarding sandro right?
Oh god....oh god oh man oh god oh man :O O:
...lol. But other than that, I think we are on good tracks I don't think that's actually possible. Look at the order of events. Starting at this point where there are 6 votes on me and 3 on Promethelax (keep in mind this is 12 minutes before the deadline): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=41#820The six votes on me are (in order of when they occurred): VisceraEyes, gonzaw, WaveofShadow, Promethelax, marvellosity, Hapahauli. Now there is definitely some analysis to be done on how these votes accumulated on me but I will save that for later. At this point gonzaw started the switch on sandroba. Austin immediately joined in. Now only gonzaw was voting on me so I'm still winning by a landslide. It's possible that they did this thinking there is no way a bandwagon on sandroba would start, but I highly doubt they would have that attitude. That is, entertain the thought for a second that gonzaw/Austin are actually mafia. They could just hammer the vote on me to ensure a town lynch (incredibly easy for gonzaw to do, Austin could just toss his vote on Promethelax or somewhere else). But that didn't happen. Then marvellosity switches his vote as well. At this point I have 4 votes and Promethelax and sandroba both have 3. Hapa and Promethelax also follow shortly after. It's definitely clear that the switch to sandroba was started and enforced by towns. This was not mafia bussing each other. The big question to answer here is: what reason would mafia have for switching off of me onto sandroba? If I'm town, there's definitely no reason to. I'm hovering around 50% of votes (HolyFlare's vote isn't going to count), it'd be so easy to just ensure that I got voted. The only scenario where the mafia would have reason to switch is if I'm also mafia (which isn't true). But that scenario, however absurd, would be reasonable, thinking that I'm more valuable to the mafia than sandroba is at this point. Thus I am in the belief that the votes on sandroba were mostly, if not 100%, town. Including my top suspect Promethelax. This seems to make a lot more sense given how that went down. What does this all mean? Mafia could have ensured I was lynched if they were on the vote switch, so why bother vote switching in the first place? No, mafia did not vote switch. What's more likely is that the mafia were voting for me but not on the switch (VE, WoS) or the mafia were all voting for Promethelax (me, sandroba, kitaman). Note that kitaman was going against sandroba during day 1. Remember that assuming Promethelax is town, mafia were in a great position at the end of the day. Town Foolishness has 6 votes and the runner up at 3 votes is also town. This is great for them cause they get to decide who's getting lynched. If I'm mafia why is there not more votes on Promethelax and where is my team to defend me? Sure I got kitaman pushing for Promethelax but I was in a desperate situation there. Things wouldn't have unfolded the way they did if that was the case. So instead this means that mafia were likely already voting for me. But they wouldn't want to go with the vote switch since that was on a mafia. VE is the only person that fits this bill since he was strangely absent during lynch time (and he posted 15 minutes after the lynch). WoS would be gone but I did feel his vote on me was questionable (will look into that later don't worry). Mafia were voting for me and were sitting comfortably, and when a vote switch happened they weren't around for it.
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Yes, he does use the fact he's town to "prove" that (but well, what else would he use?)....but his conclusion is correct. me, austin, marv and Prome ARE town. If he's scum, he's LYING to HELP TOWN.
It just blows my mind.
Like...like oadoawjawawlkmdalñkjnmwdw,...
....sorry, I just had an aneurism trying to think about this game, no worries.
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There's also the fact that Foo had 6 votes on him (2nd guy had 3), and he's just calm discussing stuff with people and talking about his sandro read and shit, 10 minutes before deadline.
Weird if he's town (like...try to prevent your own lynch dude wtf), but much weirder if he's scum, UNLESS it's some preplanned scum bullshit bus where Foo takes the fall D1 for some reason or some shit.
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EPT
