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Anyways, I don't really see scum Foo here just shutting down basically possibilities for his scumteam to win later. He straight up calls Prome and marv like confirmed town. He had every right in the world to keep tunneling them (like he did on D1), yet he makes sense and instantly backs off both of them, reducing the pool of suspects to 5 (Foo, Toad, VE, Kita, Holy), where there are 2 scum and we have 2 misslynches to spare.
That's scum suicide basically, unless he can be so sure he can win in that 5-people standoff.
And I mean, by "has every right in the world to keep tunneling them", I mean in the sense of what VE is doing here attacking Prome. I.e basically ignoring the fact Prome fluently participated in sandro's last-minute lynch and trying to nitpick other stuff and coming up with complex scenarios he's scum, etc.
Scum Foo would be all over that shit with both Prome and marv. Specially with marv.
I'll just assume he's town for now until we misslynch someone.
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On January 24 2014 05:44 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 05:37 gonzaw wrote:@Foo: I'm not really going to put any attention on Prome or marv until way after some other dudes are dead. I just don't want to assume that kind of stuff in case I get paranoid later or something. Although meh fuck it I guess it doesn't hurt to consider those 4 "confirmed town", at least by the time D2 arrives.
About WOS:Well, I am the "direct" responsible for WOS's vote on D1, so I dunno if I can get anything meaningful out of it. Had I said "Vote sandro" he could have parked his vote on sandro. Then your story would be different Foo. I guess it's just something I'll likely ignore for now regarding WOS. For example: Then before voting for me says that my answers were "good enough" and that they "fit for a lack of a better term", and that it's my "early play that doesn't make sense to me". If my answers are fitting and good enough why are you voting for me? Couldn't you say this exact same thing about Prome's vote on sandro? Doesn't really think he's scum, but under pressure sheeps gonzaw into voting him. Couldn't WOS do the same thing? Not really think Foolishness is scum, but under pressure (he was apparently in a rush to leave), sheep gonzaw into voting him. The situations are so similar, that I don't know if I can critique one of them (WOS) without critiquing the other one (Prome). (of course not 100% similar, one was 5 minutes before lynch, but in the sense that I mentioned above they are kind of similar) Right, and what I'm trying to say is that the timing does matter here. Sheeping a read with 10 minutes left in the day makes more sense because you're in a high pressure situation. I don't think WoS was in a high pressure situation even if he had to leave. Why not just vote for who he thinks is most scummy even if it's not Promethelax or myself? Would it seem odd to you if instead his last post was, "Foolishness lynch doesn't seem right, case on Promethelax is weak, I'm voting *insert random other player here* because he's not contributing, not active as usual, saying silly things, whatever"? No, that wouldn't be odd cause that would be a townie's mindset. I'd have to go back and reread his filter to be sure, but from what I remember it seems like he was contributing a lot to the current lynch suspects but never bringing up suspects of his own.
Hmm, well Foo, I guess that may be a valid point you bring up, but it's not convincing, at least to me. Sure doesn't hurt to read his filter again, and hopefully get him to contribute over here (where he hasn't much since D1 ended).
I just think that specific thing isn't alignment-indicative. I've been in a similar situation before, swapping my vote between random dudes I didn't know if I wanted to lynch or not because I had to go somewhere else in 1 minute and wouldn't be back until deadline.
For instance, here, from Aperture Mafia 2 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&user=gonzaw , particularly this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174¤tpage=11#214 . I got called scum for it later in the game as well (I think). Time pressure can make you do scummy things.
Although perhaps his read on you kind of seemed weird. He did say "I feel comfortable leaving my vote here" before voting you, when it isn't really apparent how that comfort appeared.
On January 24 2014 05:48 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 05:42 gonzaw wrote:
Anyways, I don't really see scum Foo here just shutting down basically possibilities for his scumteam to win later. He straight up calls Prome and marv like confirmed town. He had every right in the world to keep tunneling them (like he did on D1), yet he makes sense and instantly backs off both of them, reducing the pool of suspects to 5 (Foo, Toad, VE, Kita, Holy), where there are 2 scum and we have 2 misslynches to spare.
That's scum suicide basically, unless he can be so sure he can win in that 5-people standoff.
And I mean, by "has every right in the world to keep tunneling them", I mean in the sense of what VE is doing here attacking Prome. I.e basically ignoring the fact Prome fluently participated in sandro's last-minute lynch and trying to nitpick other stuff and coming up with complex scenarios he's scum, etc.
Scum Foo would be all over that shit with both Prome and marv. Specially with marv.
I'll just assume he's town for now until we misslynch someone. If I'm mafia what is my game plan to win this game? That'd probably mean the other member was on the sandroba train and I'm hoping that he can cruise the next 4 lynches to victory. If my mafia buddy is in the pool of Toad, Kita, VE, WoS then we're pretty much screwed since they are already under suspicion and I can only survive so long and divert so many lynches before I get punished for it. If one of you, austin, marvellosity, Promethelax, Hapa is mafia I'm pretty sure they will reveal themselves over time. Not tomorrow, maybe not even day three, but they will show it eventually. Off of long term behavior.
Well, austin, marv, Prome and Hapa aren't scum. So definitely your scumbuddy would be in the Toad, Kita, VE, WOS pool. If you are scum, then yes, under those premises you just commited scum suicide. If you were scum, you'd act all aggressive scum Foo like you do and go all out against marv or even Prome. You'd ignore their sandro vote calling it "not alignment indicative, could be a bus" or some stuff, and keep pilling onto them.
And you would certainly not be so fucking calm like you are right now.
Anyways, so here's my proposal guys:
gonzaw
marv
Hapa
austin
Prome
Foolishness
These guys are untouchable for now. They only become touchable if we misslynch someone. If we keep lynching scum, then they keep being untouchable. If we do misslynch someone, it is proof we were wrong, thus we reconsider those guys (Foo in particular). But until then, talking shit about them and stuff will only clutter up the thread when we have other suspicious dudes to focus on.
Do people agree (bar VE)?
Can simplify things a lot. We could discuss leaving Foo in it or out of it if you want, but at least the other 5 do go.
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So, are we all in the same page here that VE will only talk about Foo and Prome for the rest of the game?
Conspicuously absent is Holy, now hypnotoad a.k.a Toad, from his ramblings.
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No VE, YOU've been arguing about it.
I completely ignored it in one post, yet you keep babbling and babbling about it.
On January 24 2014 05:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
And it's just something I'm considering. All I know for sure is that I'm town and I THINK Prom scum. I could be convinced that scum actually wanted Foolishness lynched and abandoned ship.
This phrase is weird as fuck as well. "All I know for sure is that I'm town and I THINK Prom scum", for what purpose do you post this? Seems so out of place.
"I could be convinced that scum actually wanted Foo lynched and abandoned ship". You "could be convinced". Again so out of place. You want us to convince you scum wanted Foo lynch?
Well, I can convince you Foo is town. You can just read those posts I made above which you keep ignoring (you seem to keep ignoring Foo's posts this N1).
This attempt of yours seems "too obvious" VE. But I guess I'll just have to assume it's a last attempt at misdirection and getting us to argue with you and stuff.
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On January 24 2014 06:08 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 06:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's fine, I'm done with this game. Honestly people are too tunneled in and there's literally nothing I can do. When I try and participate it is shat on, when I try and have conversations with people it's scum claiming, I have literally no will left to play this game.
Sorry austin, you didn't make it. Maybe come back a bit later with a focus on who you would lynch, rather than defending yourself? Even if you can't avoid a lynch, if you flip green I'd think people would still look back and see who you made cases on.
If VE is town, then yes this is absolutely what he must do.
But VE, you MUST stop talking about that insane conspiracy theory of yours. You won't gain any friends by still talking about it and not addressing very important issues regarding the actual players you think are scum (Prome with his sandro vote, Foo with stuff lots of people have said, including me and kita above).
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On January 24 2014 06:15 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 05:57 gonzaw wrote:
These guys are untouchable for now. They only become touchable if we misslynch someone. If we keep lynching scum, then they keep being untouchable. If we do misslynch someone, it is proof we were wrong, thus we reconsider those guys (Foo in particular). But until then, talking shit about them and stuff will only clutter up the thread when we have other suspicious dudes to focus on.
Do people agree (bar VE)?
Can simplify things a lot. We could discuss leaving Foo in it or out of it if you want, but at least the other 5 do go. I probably wouldn't include the pair in the day 2 lynch discussion, but do you think Foolishness/austin is a viable pair or is there something that would eliminate these two as a team that makes sense?
I read your post, and under extreme weirdly specific WTF circumstances, it is possible.
It just is a conspiracy theory though, and it "obviously" seems to be wrong. But I'm paranoid as hell.
Anyways, even in that case, follow my plan. In a Foolishness/sandroba/austin scumteam, Toad, VE, etc are town (who are most likely getting lynched tomorrow). Therefore we would misslynch tomorrow, and THEN we would say "Fuck we are wrong", and maybe, depending on Foo and austin's actions on D2, reconsider that possible pair.
...or is there something that would eliminate these two as a team that makes sense?
Well, their play would eliminate that as a team that makes sense. austin not straight up voting Prome and ever sheeping me on sandro as well (which is what he would most likely have done in a Foo-sandro-austin scum situation).
Just not worth even considering right now. If we are in LYLO or something else comes up be my guest.
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On January 24 2014 06:19 Promethelax wrote:
Does anyone disagree with next lynch being between those three players? If so who should it be between and why? I have a decent reason for everyone else to be town those three not so much.
I agree. Lynch VE first, then Toad. Doubt you'll need to lynch WOS.
But, if you lynch VE, then Toad, and the game is still going on, then something seems to be wrong, so reconsider a lot of stuff instead of straight up insta-lynching WOS.
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In general terms, Holy was much more scummy than WOS. There are those previous cases floating around. His subbing out post doesn't really paint him town in my eyes, although his reasoning is solid.
Although I can't help to think he's just good scum who can come up with good fake reasons like that.
Holy spent 70% of his posts defending himself and posting excuses for not contributing (which were "I'm defending myself"). If I have to blindly choose between that guy, and a guy who at least seems to be trying (WOS) then I choose to lynch that guy.
I'm not too fond of Toads "I won't post ANYTHING until I've read the thread" thing, because it most likely means he won't post anything at all until D2 comes and it'll be a pre-fabricated post with maybe pointless reads and fluffy shit and a vote and we'll have zero chance of getting a read out of him based on that.
It would have been way way more helpful if he had just done a Prome and started maybe posting some shit while catching up with the thread.
A simple "So, who was lynched on D1? Scum? FUCK YEAH!" would have helped.
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Oh ninja'd
On January 24 2014 06:26 Toadesstern wrote:
Anything you want to talk about in specific?
I'm not going to ramble or hypnotoad this game if you're looking forward (?) to that. Kind of got myself lynched as town (like actively, not passivly...) in the last game I played on d1 because I couldn't stand talking to rayn anymore and he kept tunneling everyone no matter what... so main goal right now is to make sure that doesn't happen again.
Yes.
If you should read anything at all and pay attention to, is the lynch deadline and how it unfolded.
Let's see, hmm...
How about start reading from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=38
And up to here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=44
Just 7 pages. All the juicy stuff starts there (basically with marv voting sandro, and sandro coming to vote Prome).
Also, read these:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=46#914
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=56#1106
After you've done so, tell us what you conclude; if you agree with Foo's and kita's posts, or not, etc. About VE, about Hapa, and those guys you are now "weird" on.
Should be the fastest way to get something out of you before one of us dies tonight and D2 starts.
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Oh, well. You can't escape reading at this point :/
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Don't worry austin. If it comes down to trying to make a case for you being town, I think we can work something out.
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On January 24 2014 06:44 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 06:41 kitaman27 wrote:
Wave knows he's still going to be alive tomorrow. Only mafia know they won't get shot.
ZOMG ZOMG! Troof. I slipped cuz I am most obvious D1 lynch. More slipping below: Gonzaw, I won't get a chance to talk to you it seems before you die, but GG. I may have to fight the posthumous incoming tunnel on VE that inevitably comes tomorrow, so don't yell at me too much from obs QT, k?
I will yell at everybody from Obs QT
That's what I do
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Wouldn't it be funny, if scum wanted to create WIFOM by letting me live, even after I've been saying so much that I'll die tonight?
Wouldn't that be funny? Very very funny
*wink* *wink*
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On January 24 2014 06:44 austinmcc wrote:
I still don't think Toad nee Holy is mafia. Gonzaw, read that post about picking your brainz. The leadup to it and then the post. You see that set of posts coming from a mafia member?
Ehmm..I dunno?
Like, I guess I could see it come from a mafia member. Is it because it says "brainz" and not "brain"?
I don't really want to put too much emphasis on that thing. I've passed scum as town because of that type of posts before; if I don't believe it comes from town 100% or my gut tells it to, then I'm wary to straight up ignore Holy/Toad because of it.
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On January 24 2014 06:52 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like, if the lynch is supposedly between me/VE/Toad today and I just so happen to find them both town when I do my reads (theoretically), then I can't be expected not to push one of the so-called 'untouchables.'
kita is not untouchable
You have my permission to touch kita all you want
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I also doubt you'll find VE town..
....well...you did before (and it baffled me then)..
....ehmm..just read more carefully okay?
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@austin:
I don't particularly feel him wanting me to respond as hard as you do. I forgot about him wanting to put attention off Foo and into sandro, and him somewhat defending Foo. Considering the now changed reads (sandro scum, Foo likely town), that can take a new meaning.
He just didn't focus on the "Foo or sandro who do you lynch?" aspect too much. He fleetingly mentioned sandro there, he focuses most of his time with me (and Foo by extension). Everything he says revolves around me, even that "brainz" post. His mentions of sandro...feel more weak because of that...?
Argh. Shitty that Holy isn't here to respond and stuff.
On January 24 2014 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Resolution period has started. Mafia may no longer change their shot. One hour until the daypost.
Goddamit I forgot to sen....hmm, I think scum may try something weird tonight. Who knows!
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On January 24 2014 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
well in that case, read up to the lynch. What was the question gonzaw? :D
Ehmm...who is scum?
That seems to be a good question.
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Anyways, following up on marv, austin.
Right now, I'm here:
VE scum
One of Toad/WOS scum.
If you say Toad is town, then WOS is scum? That'd be from my POV. From your POV, how do you view it? Do you view it the same, and thus now think WOS is scum?
If not...then kita? Or maybe you are torn between kita/WOS? Or something?
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Hmm, fair enough.
Anything in particular that made you drop VE down a few places in your reads?
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EPT
