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On December 31 2013 20:28 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2013 20:11 Grackaroni wrote:
You are thinking that wanting to go on missions is a townie trait? For a brief moment I was thinking that Adam was scum because not enough people were asking to be picked or showing effort to be picked. There is a pretty good post by CR where he says that it is a tactic for town to not discuss anything and let the leader pick a team. Scummers will then have to show face if the team is by accident all town. But if the leader is scum, scummers don't have to ask to get picked or do extra effort. But I don't know if I like that line of reasoning atm.
I like that line of thinking! Not so sure about Adam. I wouldn't add him to a mission anytime soon. Add me + Hopeless. I bet the mission would pass. It would pass it would! Trust me Koshi, for I am town.
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On December 31 2013 20:34 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2013 20:18 Grackaroni wrote:
hmmmm. I'm not sure. I do seem to have dug some sort of a whole for myself by not posting. You too see to be making some enemies. Perhaps we should team up. Team Grackoshi Go GRACKOSHHI! Sounds epic. I am planning to pick up my game now, so let's be a well respected Grackoshi team. I thought this game would move way faster and that we would have a team ready to go in 48 hours. Therefore I went a bit chicken without head & fingers crossed and just spammed to take me on the first mission. Sillyness :D. Concern I now have: 1) Corazon never talking directly to me. He mentions Koshi a shitton in his filter, but never redirect his questions to me personally. It's all "Koshi needs to pick up his game" "If Koshi is going to troll" "I will not be considering Koshi his team at all" Which is just strange. I have been reading BttB mafia, Titanic 1 & 2 and he doesn't do that there at all. This game he mentions my playstyle so many times and I don't think there is 1 message directed at me. But because there is no meta to compare it to it is just simply strange and not alignment indicative I guess. I do have some posts that make Cora town though. Those are for later when I make my teams and give overall reads. 2) What do you think of Adam nay voting his own team + his reasoning behind it. I could see a VE or Cora say that because CR and I instantly voted "yay" that they get extra hesitant about adam, hopeless or rayn. But Adam (and rayn as well tbh) should not have this problem that much because they know from themselves that they are town. So then they only need to verify 2 more townies. It speaks in both Adam, rayn their favor that they blame each other for the nayvote though. rayn says he nayvoted because Koshi&CR yayvoted and he became unsure about Adamn. Adam says he nayvoted because Koshi&CR yayvoted and he became unsure about rayn. I think I need to reread it again but atm I am thinking Adam might have been thinking that if he yayvotes with Hopeless and rayn being very townie that he will be seen as the spy in the mission if he decide to fail it. Or he is forced to succeed it but then he might confirm both Hopeless and rayn as very likely town and he might fall out of the boat. Hmm. I don't know yet.
Ah yes. the nay vote of Adam. A peculiar event it was. He just seemed oh so confident of his team before people started wondering why the vote was so easily passed. If that vote failed he was definitely taking the blaiM! Hehe. I'm really not sure though. Mafia is hard. If he was town though I think he made the right call. Good play by ADAM!
Who you putting on your team this time Koshi/
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Apologies to hosts for missing the vote. I would have voted yay.
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I will still be considering and most likely picking 1 person from the people that were on the failed mission. I think there was likely 2 townies on the mission, and my chances of picking all 3 of the remaining 3 townies not on the mission is pretty slim. I have a a feeling that Rayn is the scum on the team, but it's mostly just gut. I'll dive through his filter later to see if there is any substance to that.
Please put your suggestions for the team in thread because I am quite lost right now.
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On January 03 2014 07:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Interesting. Please elaborate Grack.
I got the impression that you knew already that the team would fail, and that you were using that knowledge to get town-cred for the next mission. I was following Koshi's logic of the scum team assuming the team would pass and proactively voting yes to make themselves look better in the future.
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I guess it sounds kind of silly in retrospect, but if everyone on the mission was town (3) , and with scum probably knowing that I would vote yes as well (1) would have left them stuck hoping that the remaining 2 townies nay vote.
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This is really difficult because there is probably a townie within CR/Coag and I don't see myself choosing either one of them.
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I am going to post this list of the first 2 votes because I think it may be useful. I think we can safely assume that Team 1 would have been sabotaged from having both Hopeless/Rayn on the mission and having Koshi change his mind on hopeless during the day and upvote the mission.
Sentinel and CR voting yay to that first mission reads bad to me, and they both voted yay on the 2nd mission as well. CR looks worse to me; I cannot understand from a townie perspective someone being ok with both of those teams when he is on neither of them.
Team 1
Current Leader: Adam4167
Final Vote Count:
Hopeless1der: Yay
Adam4167: Nay
[UoN]Sentinel: Yay
Koshi: Yay
VisceraEyes: Nay
raynpelikoneet: Nay
Chairman Ray: Yay
Corazon: Nay
Grackaroni: Nay
Team: Adam4167, Hopeless1der, Raynepelikoneet
Team 2
Current Leader: VisceraEyes
Current Vote Count:
Koshi: Nay
Hopeless1der: Nay
Corazon: Yay
[UoN]Sentinel: Yay
Chairman Ray: Yay
Adam4167: Nay
VisceraEyes: Yay
Grackaroni: Nay
raynpelikoneet: Not voting *said he would nay*
Team: VisceraEyes, [UoN]Sentinel, Corazon
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On January 03 2014 08:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have absolutely no idea how you come to that conclusion Grack.
Because Koshi voted yay on the first mission one of me/Hopeless is scum? What the fuck?
No what I am saying is that the first mission would have been sabotaged. There could easily be an Adam/Koshi scum team as well.
Basically one of you/hopeless/koshi has to be scum, and if it's not one of you/hopeless then Koshi is scum and he reversed his read on hopeless to upvote a team. Koshi wouldn't go out of his way as scum to help an all town team pass because, as you have previously stated, that is not how this game works.
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Wait am I proposing a mission of 3 people? I thought it was 3 4 4 5(2) 5
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On January 03 2014 18:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
This would make perfect sense given Grackaroni is attacking me after Koshi's mission based on "gut feeling". After fail mission it's better for scum to attack different people, as you don't even care if one of your teammates get bussed as you wanna have eggs in every basket.
I have no idea why Grackaroni would attack me after Koshi's mission with literally no reasoning unless he is spy.
that does not make perfect sense lol.
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I don't really get what you are saying in the first place. Sentinel is trying to get me off the mission and it makes sense for scum to spread their targets so he must be scum. Doesn't that make perfect sense?
For one thing you assume that the majority of townies are derps and upvoted the first mission which would have been a sabotage. You also assume that I forced Adam to down vote a passing mission for the fuck of it.
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On January 03 2014 18:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 18:45 Grackaroni wrote:
I don't really get what you are saying in the first place. Sentinel is trying to get me off the mission and it makes sense for scum to spread their targets so he must be scum. Doesn't that make perfect sense?
For one thing you assume that the majority of townies are derps and upvoted the first mission which would have been a sabotage. You also assume that I forced Adam to down vote a passing mission for the fuck of it. Having 2 scum on 1st mission has it's advantages and disadvantages. Having 1 scum however is easier to play off in case you do not know how to play it after that. I don't think up/down-voting the first (Adam's) mission has a lot to do with alignments in a sense that i don't think all scum were on the same side (as in voting yay or nay). Or what exactly are you trying to say?
What? You just pointed to the vote list on the 2nd mission and said it must be us 3 because we all voted nay. Why is the 2nd vote conclusive and the 1st vote irrelevant?
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On January 03 2014 19:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is a difference because i don't think Koshi's mission had 2 scum and Adam's had.
And I would have picked Hopeless/Koshi if Koshi's mission got passed over.
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Basically what you are saying right now is that Adam was forced by the thread to add his teammate in to the mission with him. (I don't need to look at the thread at the time; there were a lot of anti-hopeless people that day who changed their mind later)
He wanted to nay vote it, and then I telepathically understood that Adam wanted the team to fail and made some posts to ensure that scum didn't get a sabotaged team on the first day with no information, which would force town to choose 4 townies off one vote that could have been 6 yays.
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On January 03 2014 19:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:Well Mr.Grackaroni, explain this: Show nested quote +On December 27 2013 21:48 Grackaroni wrote:
Adam/Hopeless/Rayn sounds pretty good. Nothing here suggests a change in your reads.
I don't think looking for filter consistency is the right way to go about scum hunting in general. If I want my filter to be consistent I can make it consistent. I liked both you/hopeless but not enough to yay vote the first mission. I was going to nay vote any mission the first few days regardless of the team because there was only like 20 pages of thread.
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On January 03 2014 19:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because let's be honest here. I was easily the towniest person in thread when Adam chose his team. I pressured him to tell me what team he would pick in case he had to pick it instantly (before he picked the team). Nobody made good posts after that and at that moment he had a strong(?) townread on Hopeless.
What exactly were his chances of changing his mind after giving me his team proposition of him/me/Hopeless as noone posts townie stuff unless he wants to out himself in case he is scum?
Why was he giving a town read on hopeless in the first place if he is so strongly against putting 2 scum on the mission?
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On January 03 2014 19:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2014 19:24 Grackaroni wrote:On January 03 2014 19:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:Well Mr.Grackaroni, explain this: On December 27 2013 21:48 Grackaroni wrote:
Adam/Hopeless/Rayn sounds pretty good. Nothing here suggests a change in your reads. Grackaroni: Nay I don't think looking for filter consistency is the right way to go about scum hunting in general. If I want my filter to be consistent I can make it consistent. I liked both you/hopeless but not enough to yay vote the first mission. I was going to nay vote any mission the first few days regardless of the team because there was only like 20 pages of thread. Filter consistency is the only way to scumhunt because if your filter is not consistent then you are scum as you change your mind based on nothing - something you don't do as town. What do you suggest is how to scumhunt then?
I won't tell you how to scumhunt. There are definitely times when you can catch scum for a weird inconsistency. From my own experience I believe that scum are more concerned with making their filter consistent and that they will always give a reason to explain their actions. I don't think down voting a team that is good for scum after saying a team is good is indicative of scum play; on the contrary, it's a pretty damn good indicator of town.
You are arguing that Adam and I are scum with Hopeless and that Adam/I were both against the idea of having 2 scum on our team, yet we both came out pro-hopeless. It's not even that I disagree with your theory because I know that it's wrong. I don't think that it's a sensible belief disregarding my own alignment.
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On January 03 2014 19:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2013 20:49 Grackaroni wrote:On December 31 2013 20:34 Koshi wrote:On December 31 2013 20:18 Grackaroni wrote:
hmmmm. I'm not sure. I do seem to have dug some sort of a whole for myself by not posting. You too see to be making some enemies. Perhaps we should team up. Team Grackoshi Go GRACKOSHHI! Sounds epic. I am planning to pick up my game now, so let's be a well respected Grackoshi team. I thought this game would move way faster and that we would have a team ready to go in 48 hours. Therefore I went a bit chicken without head & fingers crossed and just spammed to take me on the first mission. Sillyness :D. Concern I now have: 1) Corazon never talking directly to me. He mentions Koshi a shitton in his filter, but never redirect his questions to me personally. It's all "Koshi needs to pick up his game" "If Koshi is going to troll" "I will not be considering Koshi his team at all" Which is just strange. I have been reading BttB mafia, Titanic 1 & 2 and he doesn't do that there at all. This game he mentions my playstyle so many times and I don't think there is 1 message directed at me. But because there is no meta to compare it to it is just simply strange and not alignment indicative I guess. I do have some posts that make Cora town though. Those are for later when I make my teams and give overall reads. 2) What do you think of Adam nay voting his own team + his reasoning behind it. I could see a VE or Cora say that because CR and I instantly voted "yay" that they get extra hesitant about adam, hopeless or rayn. But Adam (and rayn as well tbh) should not have this problem that much because they know from themselves that they are town. So then they only need to verify 2 more townies. It speaks in both Adam, rayn their favor that they blame each other for the nayvote though. rayn says he nayvoted because Koshi&CR yayvoted and he became unsure about Adamn. Adam says he nayvoted because Koshi&CR yayvoted and he became unsure about rayn. I think I need to reread it again but atm I am thinking Adam might have been thinking that if he yayvotes with Hopeless and rayn being very townie that he will be seen as the spy in the mission if he decide to fail it. Or he is forced to succeed it but then he might confirm both Hopeless and rayn as very likely town and he might fall out of the boat. Hmm. I don't know yet. Ah yes. the nay vote of Adam. A peculiar event it was. He just seemed oh so confident of his team before people started wondering why the vote was so easily passed. If that vote failed he was definitely taking the blaiM! Hehe. I'm really not sure though. Mafia is hard. If he was town though I think he made the right call. Good play by ADAM! Who you putting on your team this time Koshi/ Also Grack, this does not sound like a policy nay-vote as you earlier on said it was. You are giving different reasons for your voting behavior.
Yeah, I was drunk when I wrote that. I didn't really have any opinion at all on Adam lol.
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EPT
