On December 06 2013 15:47 geript wrote:@Austin. Honestly I'm frustratingly mixed on MZ. Like I think you have a great point that he doesn't push his scumreads half as forcefully as he does his VE townread. Like that's you're best point. But I feel like I have a really good grasp on WoS (<3 you wubbybumpkins--except you know making my player Uzi is totally a bastard host move), so I can understand his faith in that read.
But there's a point in the game where on D1 I'm a huge topic of issue but he doesn't follow up on it. It's like the perfect time to push me as scum and push me pretty hard as he likely could completely get away with it. On the reverse side, there's this post
Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 16:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
here's what I got out of geript:
never once does he properly analyze oats and is content to simply lean on his "gut read"
he constantly talks about both oats and jay but never really tries to get people to join him and instead simply tells people to vote them because his targets are guaranteed scum.
The biggest thing I get out of geript is a bunch of noise and posts without doing anything substantial. For instance, he has his main targets but he brings up others on the side and never follows up. He's in that twilight zone where you can't blame him for the bum mislynch but he was definitely involved.
Probably the biggest thing in geript's favor is calling out people like austin and coag, both of whom are low content lurkers. If he's scum he could be bussing his teammates but it's a point in his favor that he doesn't let them fall through the cracks. However the reason why this doesn't clear him is because he never follows up with any of this. It's easy enough to call out lurkers as scum but he never actually follows through which makes me think this was an effort to appear protown.
geript is frustratingly inconclusive for me. He's done things I feel are scummy (hence my gutread) but I couldn't put it into a coherent analysis. This is the problem I was running into earlier in the game when I was looking at geript and sadly bum's death hasn't really made it any easier. He could be scum but I'd rather look into bum's other suspects right now.
Which I really don't like. He comes to a similar-ish conclusion to Prome (who gave me a stronger townie lean), like I don't like the thought process like this coming out of a vet. As a counter point:
Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 20:29 Promethelax wrote:
geript hard defends Rayn d0 and really puts his foot down about it. He takes a hard stance which I rather like. Its odd, everything I'm seeing seems to objectively point to scum but I don't find it convincing. There is something in how geript is thinking that seems silly but not scummy maybe? I can't explain it right. He is ringing all the scum bells but it feels like he is ringing them for the wrong reasons. He has all this ill founded bravado that I think would be hard for him to do as scum. He is very in your face and it seems townie.
I like geript's day one play, he is all around the place. Starts on jay but doesn't stick. Has gotten over his bad tunnel. HIts oats.
People who are all over the place, to me, tend to read as town. Like it's very hard to bounce between reads as scum and continue to juggle that. This is a "tell" that I've seen be so true so often and, iirc, many "pros" tend to share.
Next this is going to seem really weird to bring up, but I seem to have skimmed some important stuff.
[insert Jay's post on VE]
Here's 3 near instantaneous reactions
Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 02:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
Jay where were posts like that one like...all game long?
Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 02:17 Koshi wrote:
That post makes jay town in my book. Don't know if it makes VE more scum but delurk is delurky.
Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 02:24 marvellosity wrote:
[i]I sat there and thought huh, that's interesting. Let's look in these spoilers. Oh yeah, VE did do that stuff jay said. He's actually gone and researched this. Hmm, this is an interesting perspective which gave some thought. *goes to move jay back from scummy to null in spreadsheet*. I wonder if it genuinely makes VE scummy or if it's just coincidence? Probably just coincidence for now, but it's interesting at any rate.
Like when I saw MZ and Marv's interaction and had to go back and reread Jay's post, my reaction was literally just like Koshi's. "wow that makes jay look towny."
MZ's reaction to Koshi seems really out of place and wrong. When good players read things completely differently that tends to be a warning flag for me.
Another thing that really bothers me is this:
Show nested quote +On December 05 2013 01:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
...you made kurumi get himself modkilled... have you ever seen a scum do that?
This seems like a really weird reaction to me. It's always been true that I've seen town get other town modkilled. Perhaps MZ's experience is different, but LIX is a good example of where Toadestern and somebody else ended up getting modkilled because other town brought up the rules and stuff and pushed it. In general, town tends to push other town to get modkilled and not the other way around so it seems really weird to me that this is his reaction.
In summary after looking and thinking more about his filter, I'd be down for a MZ lynch but not for most of the reasons you posted.
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