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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=437262
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 25 2013 00:28 GMT
#1680
On November 25 2013 09:17 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 08:29 Holyflare wrote:
Now aqua is doing the same thing? Is this game really that easy?

@Holyflare: Corazon, Thrawn and myself have the most experience with Mocsta out of the players here, and we're all telling you he's town.

We're also (with Mocsta) the four most active players in the thread.

Are you seriously contending that three of us are scum?

alright, aqua. i believe all 3 of you are town so if you guys really stand by this i'll move to consolidate. but i would appreciate it if you took some time to keep and open mind and reread his filter over the next few days.

i am torn though because i'm reluctant to lynch JJD or onegu. i liked onegu's post on mocsta -- it read town to me. so if it's a choice between the 2, i guess i'd go with JJD.
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 25 2013 00:28 GMT
#1682
On November 25 2013 09:23 Chezinu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 09:19 Bereft wrote:
re: Mocsta, i think there's a cause for concern here and i'm not sure why thrawn and aqua aren't seeing it.

from day 1, moc has given the impression of being helpful and a town leader, but i am disinclined to think it is genuine. 3 pages into the game on day 1, he writes this ridiculous try hard post for no reason:

On November 20 2013 15:22 Mocsta wrote:
Post 8

(1) I won't have a post restriction anymore, but I will be numbering my posts so I can try and force consolidation.

(2)
On November 20 2013 14:21 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta, whenever you get back:

If someone gave you a day-vigilante shot and said you had to shoot someone in this thread right now, who would it be and why?

(This isn't quite the same question as "Who is your biggest scumread", by the way.)

I wouldn't shoot anyone right now. JJD, Vonthin, Onegu, LM, Jampidampi have yet to post. Thats just under 50% of the game.

Having said that: if I had a one-time bullet that kills scum and misses town; I would shoot between Sciberbia/Corazon/Bereft.

Pur quoi?
Warning MASSIVE PLAY-BY-PLAY ANALYSIS of therad
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 12:14 Bereft wrote:
THE POPO AINT SHUTTIN US DOWN

I find this tone overdone / try-hard. Its only a very slight negative lean.

On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

Having just come out of a game as scum. I personally feel this is written with the tone of scum-scum.
Sciberbia takes a position using strong descriptive words "trolly" and "ingratiating" from one post that to me - with limited knowledge - is null.
Further, Sciberbia references my name.. I find this odd.
I know I am town, but only scum should be aware of that too.
Now: SCiberbia does not comment on my alignment here; yet, directly infers it was scummish for Corazon to
"echo" what I said.

On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town

De ja ducking vu

explain.

you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength.

I find this tone too aggressive. As I stated in my retort to Bereft, scum like to interupt town circles.
Thrawn is hardly confirmed to me, but of the 7 people to post, he is my best town read.
I will give this a null tell by itself - however if Bereft keeps up the aggression I will be treating him as scum.

On November 20 2013 12:26 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:18 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:12 Aquanim wrote:
Also, it gave you something to ask me about, so as a conversation starter I consider it a success.


What are your conclusions about moc's alignment based on his answer?

A teeny-tiny town-lean since he seems to be relaxed.

That's interesting. I assumed you were coming to the opposite conclusion, since to me his response looks more "sarcastic and dodgy" than "just saying no". What about his response strikes you as relaxed?

+ Show Spoiler [sarcastic and dodgy] +

On November 20 2013 12:06 Mocsta wrote:
Scum: a layer of dirt or froth on the surface of a liquid.

No, I am not.

I am a mobster, which is typically "scum" in the world of forum-mafia
However, in this game, roles are reversed and of the town I am.


Again, as stated before this reads to me gentle prodding: NOT for information, but to discredit.

Coming back to the thread, Aquanim reads a lot more calm/composed to me so is back to null. I think Sciberbia has jumped too brashly into an opportunity to shit-sling and from a player of his analytical background I find this highly suspicious.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:27 Bereft wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police!

I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said.

agree or disagree.

agreed, very high chance imo. only potentially succeeded by this even more 'safe' entrance:

On November 20 2013 12:00 sciberbia wrote:
Hello everyone!


also trolly and ingratiating because why are you smiling at me? i've no idea who you are. are you my enemy? i don't know about you, but i've come from a tough city, living on the streets, forced to make a living in any way possible. i don't smile at passerby's on the street. the only people that do, do so with a smug sneer, and they are the pigs.


I have a problem with this post because its completely 180' with where my mindset is in the thread. I also do not like the interplay between Sciberbia and Bereft. I want to avoid making association reads without flips but I find Bereft is overly defensive and certainly not natural.

"I've no idea who you are. are you my enemy?

In one phrase: Its just over compensated.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


I saw some people give Thumbs up for this post. I thought it stunk - real bad. I think Corazon needs to use soap next time he has a shower.
Its a bunch of generic policy stuff and is how I used to love playing scum (in the newbies). Technically the post is null as inexperienced town can do this and supposedly we can judge corazon based on how he implements this.
My issue with this post was the last paragraph:

"On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss.
We're not going to find scum on the first page.
You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game."

I find it odd that Corazon is confident enough to say that the posters on the first page are all town (Sciberbia, Bereft, Thrawn, Aquanim, Corazon, myself) and simultaneously ignore my post giving scum reads to Bereft/Sciberbia/Aquanim.
I think this is damage control.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:40 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


I'd like to say that mason falls under the role of "standard roles" and could be potentially in this set-up. Very intriguing...

This might be Mocsta using moclogic.. but I treat this as a scum slip.
Corazon jumps to the natural conclusion that we are both confirmed, so assumes we did it through a role = mason.
I think anyone else without game knowledge can piece together we were takling about the "de ja vu" from before.
At the least it shows Corazon is NOT reading the thread closely which is suspicious for this many posts.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Ditto the corazon read above

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:47 Bereft wrote:
he's referencing mocsta saying that i'm trying to disrupt their town circle:

On November 20 2013 12:24 Mocsta wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town

De ja ducking vu

explain.

you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength.

post 5
Scum like to interrupt town circles, so dial down the tone will ya.

I think if there are 3 scum. So far it'saquanim, sciberbia and you.
Course not everyone has posted so this is tentative and subject to change.

The answer to your question was in my previous post.
Dr ja vu.

Thrawn is contextually reading the same as I do. It's only a small point but enough for a town lean at this stage of the game.

Thanks for looking out for my post count

I will give Bereft town points here. He has arrived at the natural conclusion. So back to null.


- Rean than makes a really bad introduction post, but thats null. If anything its town that usually make such "zero content" posts because they actually believe what they are saying they think it *is* content.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:52 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?


no

Can you explain your statement then?


Think he means they have town reads based on previous meta or something. Not actually confirmed-confirmed.

Comes to the natural conclusion albeit slightly differently. I think this is very townie though. He knows nothing of thrawn or myself... could not interpret what I meant when i said thrawn is town so assumed it was meta based. This demonstrates a guy thinking about the game. Its not anything to be confirmed town, but is a very good sign this early in the game.

- Then Corazon/Sci shit the thread up.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:
*snip*
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?

Aqua is thinking the same way I do. I like this. He is a lot more polite about his suspicions/prodding though.

On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

This resposne is really bad as once again it completely ignores the content I posted about those players.
Maybe I'm wrong, but at this stage of the game it illicits a response regardless.
Horse blinkers like these are not a good sign this early on.

On November 20 2013 13:00 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [cora] +

On November 20 2013 12:52 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.

I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing.

My post basically said "so you are claiming mason? interesting..."
Your post said "you are mason?"

So I guess you could say that a lack of reaction is a difference. But it's not like we "aren't saying at all the same thing".



@cora
You made the assumption that he was claiming mason and commented on its plausibility. I found that assumption troubling, and asked him if he was in fact claiming mason.

+ Show Spoiler [cora] +


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.



@cora
Guilty as charged. I dislike random bullshit phase. Just because most games start with a bunch of trolling doesn't mean we have to. I think we're actually doing quite well so far.

Personal heuristic but I find early game its only scum that use phrases like this.
"I think we're actually doing quite well so far"
How the heck does town have a guage on what is good/bad when only 50% of the players have participated.

On November 20 2013 13:01 Bereft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

and what's wrong with rocking the boat ridiculously early in the game?

did you notice that mocsta also did the same thing? according to him, from the 1st page, aqua, sciberia, and I are scum.

do you only take issue with sciberia's page 1 analysis only because it's about you?

Bereft is either comfortable distancing team mates, or is town. - I am not familiar enough with his meta to make an opinion yet.
I like that he picks up on this stuff to corazon that I already identified earlier. Still null.

On November 20 2013 13:04 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:00 sciberbia wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [cora] +

On November 20 2013 12:52 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:49 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!

mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other


@thrawn
You are masons?

Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it.

I didnt' 'piggyback' on your post. Our posts aren't saying at all the same thing.

My post basically said "so you are claiming mason? interesting..."
Your post said "you are mason?"

So I guess you could say that a lack of reaction is a difference. But it's not like we "aren't saying at all the same thing".



@cora
You made the assumption that he was claiming mason and commented on its plausibility. I found that assumption troubling, and asked him if he was in fact claiming mason.

+ Show Spoiler [cora] +


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.



@cora
Guilty as charged. I dislike random bullshit phase. Just because most games start with a bunch of trolling doesn't mean we have to. I think we're actually doing quite well so far.


Where in that post do I say he is claiming mason? I was making a comment on the possibility of there being a mason after thrawn's post. If it had said in the OP "no masons in this game", then wouldn't it be suspicious? You're grasping at straws here bro.

The only thing I've seen from the early game is that you are looking pretty scummy right now.

I dunno, this is just too haste from Corazon. Everyone knows he is "sensitive" and prone to OMGUS so it does dilute the read a touch, however, I can't keep getting over this is scum-to-scum interaction.

"You're grasping at straws" + "you are looking pretty scummy" are strong words and stances, yet, does it really read like Corazon is *trying* to get Sciberbia lynched? I dont sense congruence here.

Again, scum-to-scum interactions I think...


- I like the way Aquanim is prodding Rean.


On November 20 2013 13:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:01 Bereft wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:

...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.

The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive?


I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game.

Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.

and what's wrong with rocking the boat ridiculously early in the game?

did you notice that mocsta also did the same thing? according to him, from the 1st page, aqua, sciberia, and I are scum.

do you only take issue with sciberia's page 1 analysis only because it's about you?

He didn't do it with just me. He told Moc and I that it was scummy that we made troll posts. At least Mocsta was direct in saying who he thought was scummy instead of sciberia who is only doing a "window looking" version of scum hunting.

This post is null to me. Corazon reads very emotional so its hard to understand motive.


On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?

Bereft is starting to look better as is reading the actual content behind the queries. Rean does the same.

- I entirely agreed with Thrawn vote at that time

On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.
Excellent post from Aquanim. If hes scum, hes playing a great game because hes asking the questions that are in my head as Im reading it. That is very hard to do as scum.

On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

I think this is a scum-slip.
Corazon is too assertive in his read and this goes beyond emotion. When I read this, I take it as someone who is speaking "matter of fact".
This is enough for me to be 90% confident that both Sciberbia and Corazon are scum.

There is no way that enough content has been delivered in this thread for a town person to jump to such a strong conclusion as this. Event hough I think Sciberbia is scummy, I do think he came in here with the intention to troll like this. I was just posting a theory.

On November 20 2013 13:40 sciberbia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.


Do you find this behavior suspicious from Aquanim or are you simply making an observation?

The question is fair, however, in context of thread events this is aterrible post.
Corazon is slamming into Sciberbia, and this is what Sciberbia thinks is relevant to discuss? WTF?

On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Thrawn
When I made that post, I was thinking along the lines of "I think sci's actions are looking pretty scummy." In my opinion, if he was trying to create a good town atmosphere in the start, he did a very poor job of doing so. That's why I was thinking (and still am) that sciberia is scum.

This post does not align with his strong opinion in the previous post.
Im starting to sound tunneled because I am now so so so certain Corazon and Sciberbia are scum.

On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?


I am not a fan of Aquanim for this interpretation however, I also know he is more calculated than I am so can accept a town Aquanim may play out the thread like this. Im going to go null but will be curious how Aquanim chooses to interpret this massive post and my conclusions.

On November 20 2013 13:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:44 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Rean
Talking about town reads is silly. I'd rather just have 1 scum read from Aqua.


Why is it silly?

Would you vote someone on being the "least townie"? Talking about town reads is only good to high-five and pat each other on the back and compliment each other's town play. It doesn't get scum lynched.

More generics from Corazon. Importantly, he just called Sciberbia scum last page and now is acting as if nothing happened.
Deffo scum

On November 20 2013 13:57 sciberbia wrote:
@Rean
What is your strongest scumread right now and why?

Again, he also dodges the shit-ball fight of Corazon.

Some may argue that is towny to avoid this and not shit the thread. However, the key differentiator I find is that if town choose that approach they would also ACKNOWLEDGE the existence of the read. Sciberbia just dodges it and hopes no one brings it up further. Very bad.

On November 20 2013 13:57 Rean wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:51 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:49 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:45 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:36 Rean wrote:
Aquanim, you're constantly asking but never saying much about what you think. Gimme one town and one scum and reasons why please.

I reckon Thrawn's town because I liked the vote on Corazon. That is the kind of action which will get us doing truly productive things. (His unvote doesn't change that.)
As for scum, I'm not sure yet. Not enough information.

I don't much like Corazon's case on sciberbia but I can think of reasons why Corazon would make that argument as town, regardless of how good it is. I'm still null on Corazon but I'm very interested in what he chooses to do next.

I still want an answer to this from you:
On November 20 2013 13:04 Aquanim wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:55 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:52 Bereft wrote:
Rean, what do you think of Mocsta thus far?


Talks a lot, seems awfully certain of everything he says.

@Rean
Given this, which way are you leaning on Mocsta in terms of alignment?



http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435582&currentpage=7#127

Ah yes, my bad.

Do you think Corazon's argument that sciberbia is scum is persuasive? Why or why not?


Persuasive...it's a good argument. Sciberbia was being more laidback, trying to avoid comitting to anything, so it definitely makes him look scummy.

Overall the kind of argument that gets discussion started and gets us somewhere useful, I quite like it. Guess persuasive would be a decent way to describe it.
This guy is interesting. As scum I think I would phrase things similar to this guy because there is always an 'out'. I think in this instance, this is a townie with an opinion speaking naturally and as the thought comes to his mind. Can evaluate him more if the flips on Corazon/Sciberbia go awry - which I doubt.


In short I am very comfortable to lynch Corazon and Sciberbia.
I would lynch Corazon because him trying to wriggle out of it will be more fun/alignment-revealing in my opinion.

##Vote: cDgCorazon

and to answer your question, I would shoot Sciberbia as he is the other half.


he also writes the following early day 1 with no comment on how this applies or relates to these current players behaviors:
On November 20 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote:
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.

Important things for everyone to know:

As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation

- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.

The others no idea.

in addition, he has attempted to discredit people who are suspicious of him.

on day 1, like 5 posts into the game or something, when i ask him to explain himself, he implies i'm scum and trying to interrupt a town circle. in response to suspicion cast upon him, he makes the individual doubt himself by reinforcing it into our heads that he's very town, with responses such as:
On November 21 2013 15:53 Mocsta wrote:
Lynching me lol

Chortle

On November 23 2013 00:02 Mocsta wrote:
I don't get this.

how am I not playing town that people like jarjar think I am a chance to flip scum?



he has also called me a non-confident, paranoid townie for suspecting him.

the post i quoted above re: meta i find noteworthy because we know from mocsta's experience that he knows sciberia and aqua to be solid analytical thinkers. his reads on these 2 players have been flip-flopping (the sciberia one is particularly memorable, but he has also done the same of moving aqua from good bucket to bad bucket and so forth). i believe that his 180 degree view changes on these 2 players are unnatural and unindicative of a townie mindset, they read to me like he is in fact trying to test the waters to see if he can get these 2 players lynched. if i were mafia myself, i know that i would be wary of them. so in conclusion, i'm reading more motive into his flip-flopping views than him just being a confused townie.


Why are you going robo on us??? WHY??!?!? WHY?!?!?!??!

D035 N0T C0MPUT3
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 25 2013 00:36 GMT
#1691
##Unvote
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 25 2013 00:55 GMT
#1711
HF is full of shit, lynch him!!!
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 25 2013 00:59 GMT
#1714
##Vote: JJD

i like this vote better than Onegu (sorry Cora). i've reread JJD's filter and the below 2 posts are pretty bad.

On November 23 2013 12:34 JarJarDrinks wrote:
The only reason scum wouldn't shoot is if Holyflare is scum and is looking for cred for his doc claim. Which is such a huge stretch and makes no sense for several reasons that I don't think we need to entertain it.

So I think we should all just assume that scum attack was foiled. Whether or not it was a HF heal or something else, we can't be sure. HF made his claim 17 minutes before the deadline. More than enough time for scum to change it's target.

So I think the shooter was roleblocked. I think we should discuss a potential roleclaim from anyone w/ a roleblocking role. Would love to hear opinions on it.

And Holy, can u post ur flavor please?

On November 24 2013 12:04 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2013 11:56 thrawn2112 wrote:
and I don't like that he asked other people to claim to try and confirm hf's story.
Don't make it like I'm asking people to just roleclaim their role. I think it would be unlikely to have 2 docs so I asked cora to claim doc if that's the reason he hasn't bought the claim from the begining. Trading a doc claim to catch scum is worth it. Especially if scum probably would suspect him (which they would).

Saying that I "asked other people to claim" is a lie. I asked ONE person to conditionally claim.

Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 25 2013 01:01 GMT
#1715
if you, thrawn, aqua, scib all prefer onegu to JJD, i'll switch, but i am more comfortable with this.
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 25 2013 01:14 GMT
#1729
On November 25 2013 10:12 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 10:10 Holyflare wrote:
On November 25 2013 09:36 Chezinu wrote:
On November 25 2013 09:31 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 25 2013 09:13 Chezinu wrote:
On November 25 2013 08:48 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 25 2013 08:28 cDgCorazon wrote:
On November 25 2013 08:18 Alakaslam wrote:
On November 25 2013 07:42 Aquanim wrote:
@Alakaslam: Just so you know, you're replacing into a slot I really wanted to lynch. I'll try and give you time to read the game and make your own reads - I'd really appreciate it if you post your thoughts long enough before the lynch I can think about them.

Ok. I filtered myself and found out, and also see that deadline is soon.

If I get lynched, well rean gets lynched but I can't possibly be rightly useful to town until later. We are at 80 pages, that will take me about a day, assuming I basically quit the other game. So levy the accusations against me and your current reads so I can not get modkilled right after replacing- and not have it be useless by voting no lynch or some such thing.

Why is who up. Act like I just read my own filter (rean), and therefore know little about anyone.


I'll oblige:

Onegu: + Show Spoiler +
On November 24 2013 10:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
Why Onegu is scum and needs to die:

I'm just going to go through Onegu's filter and point out the scummy posts that he has made. Mocsta was kind of right when he says that no one has tried to push a lynch, so I'm going to try and rectify that.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 20:28 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 12:50 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.



Couldn't agree more. Also, don't shit up the thread with useless spam like the LXIII game please. I tried keeping up but the amount of shit posts just trolling/making useless jokes/comments is unbearable and makes it impossible to tell low-laying scum from trolling townies. If anyone goes around posting stupid oneliners without saying anything meaningful they have my vote >.>



Reans first post into the thread and it just fakes activity. He doesnt say what he agrees with and there are multiple things to agree with, does he agree with all or only some he, never actually says what points he agrees with. This is a very scummy first post.


Also if mocsta didnt retract his post limit on himself I was going to call him scum, but he did and I am ok with it for now. I do want to point out he only takes it after cora points out his spam. But unlike cora I thought it was scummy, because it was a easy way to avoid conversation. The was one more post from mocsta I didnt like will find it in moment it was post 4or 5 where he gives 3 scum reads with no reason and then says half the thread hasnt posted so his reads can change.

Coras case on Sciberia is terribad and scummy.

Anyway rean is really scumm though.


Sorry Im at the mall but when I am home I will catchup on both of my games and be up late playing. Ill be checking in periodicly while Im at the mall though.



This is basically his entry post and it doesn't accomplish very much. He kind of makes a stretch when he says that Rean did not point out what he agreed with on my post. I feel that it is because he didn't read the entirety of Rean's post. He then talks about calling Mocsta scum based on a decision he made before he knew whether he was scum or town (Mocsta made his self-imposed post limit pre-game). It's just a play to look like he is analyzing the game when in fact he isn't.

After that, he calls my case "terribad and scummy" yet refuses to say why. Didn't he just say that Rean was "really scummy" for not explaining what he liked about my post? He literally just contradicted himself in the same post. Why does he hold Rean to a higher standard than himself?

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 21:00 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:20 Mocsta wrote:
Anyways, I don't want to drown the thread so gonna take a chill pill and re-read again.

Important things for everyone to know:

As town:
- Corazon is a highly emotional player. From my experiences he doesn't give up - even though he says he will (when tunneled by scum)
- Sciberbia (as I have played with him) is a highly analytical player
- Aquanim is a straight-shooter thinker. He *abhors* trolling/spam; and is a pretty effective communicator. I take him to be a head-strong guy that *should* be injecting his thoughts into the thread without provocation

- Thrawn I don't have meta on and don't care, his thoughts align too much with mine.

The others no idea.



Really? You dont know me yet?

On November 20 2013 21:12 Onegu wrote:
I dont like mocstas thread pressance attitude, something seems off about his thread captianism to me, like its almost forced. Its almost like he puts a post restiction on himself pregame, game starts he keeps it up, gets called out for it says Im not going to keep it, and then becomes thread captain in a way that doesnt feel natural to me....

Im not a huge fan on the aquanim case either Ill dig into it more in a bit.


Wait, didn't he say that he is ok with Mocsta giving up his post limit? Why is he not ok with it now? Also, he just yelled at Mocsta for calling him scum for playing exactly like he does every game. Why is he using that as a way to attack Mocsta? He contradicts himself for the second time in the first 5 posts in his filter. He's holding other players to a higher standard than himself. That's not a townie mindset.

He then has that really messed-up post where he quotes Mocsta's filter and I don't even know.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 03:59 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 03:52 Mocsta wrote:
On November 21 2013 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nah thrawn you are making things up.
Onegu what the hell are you doing?

Hes scum claiming.

Its impossible for anyone that played with me in Mafia LXIII to think i am scum.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434275&user=Mocsta
for any doubters



Dont talk about ongoing games.


Two can play at the nitpicking thing. This post is really useless and doesn't go anywhere. A townie would not worry about enforcing the rules and would have not posted this. This goes in line with the fact that his scum read on Mocsta is not really based on anything. He continues on this tunnel without any reasoning and without any proof that Mocsta is scum other than the fact that Mocsta likes to post a lot.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 21 2013 16:40 Onegu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 15:32 Aquanim wrote:
On November 21 2013 15:27 Onegu wrote:
Rayn my gut is getting a little tingle from you as I am reading...

@Onegu
Could you explain this further? Do you think he's scum, or are you just happy to see him?


Yes somewhat scummy but I cant point to anything yet just a gut feeling, but these gut feelings on rayn have been correct alot of the time. I am slowly reading the thread while getting ready to go out


This post shows his feelings on Rayn. He thinks that Rayn is scummy due to a "gut feeling". It's not very good reasoning but I would not have been critical of this had he stayed neutral on the Rayn lynch. Yet:

+ Show Spoiler +
[Note: This is from his giant list of reads where he votes for Mocsta. I didn't want to copy the whole list.]

Calls out posts not needed to be called out like aqua not voteing his top scum read

Rayn calling me scum but not looking at past mini games, his meta reads on me are so bad

Doesnt look like he believes his case on aqua, harping the same point over and over when that point isnt scummy

The post where rayn calls out aqua for his spicydinosaur post was really good

Then he somewhat defemds me, but uses correct meta

Calls out sciberia, I like this post as town,

Calls out bereft also like but I disagree

Disagree with almost all of his reads, but post where he calls out mocsta for my meta was good

Post on if him and Jamp are both scum then lynch jamp first is actually townie for rayn, but not anyone else

Calls out mocsta for the cora vote to consolidate as its townie post town points

Unless is trying to do what I did in WC as scum which I dont see he really is town

Rayn saying those are scumclaims, wrong, but from a town rayn


Wait what? Didn't he just say that his "gut" thought that Rayn was scum? He contradicted himself again! To be honest, this looks like at first he made a decision to follow thread sentiment and have suspicion, then changed his mind when he realized that Rayn had a very good chance of being lynched.

Onegu continues to blame Mocsta for the Rayn lynch and continue on his un-justified tunnel in an effort to look like he has scum hunting. Other than his list post, he hasn't mentioned anyone outside of myself, Rean (only 1 or 2 times), and Mocsta. He has an agenda to get Mocsta lynched. One could theorycraft and say that Onegu was trying to capitalize off the Rayn lynch and get Mocsta to be lynched D2 to not have to waste a kill on him.

I'm not going to talk about much else in his filter. His case on Bereft seems like an attempt to scum-hunt after it was made obvious that Mocsta wasn't going to get lynched. I don't even think Onegu believes in his own case- he doesn't even vote Bereft. His filter dive consists of taking a few of Bereft's posts and making one-line analysis of them. It's not in-depth and I don't think that he wants Bereft to be lynched- he just wants the credit of making a case for the first time in the game.

TL;DR
1. He expects other players to play townier than him and is holding them to a higher standard
2. He contradicts himself- a lot. He's even contradicted himself in the same post.
3. He has tunneled Mocsta the whole game, and has only attacked four people, two of which he has only mentioned a few times (Rean and Bereft)
4. His posts and cases wreak to me of only trying to gain credit for scum hunting and not actually getting people lynched

There are other points that I have mentioned before in my filter (such as his activity and the fact that he really doesn't care about who gets lynched), but I think this should be enough to warrant his lynching today.

I would vote for him now but my vote is already on him. Feel free to ask me questions.

Most of this is true but I think the part after the second quote was me misreading. Most of this is still pretty good evidence IMO.


Holyflare: Holyflare claimed doctor N1 for absolutely no reason and said that he saved Thrawn. He replaced in late D1 and has not done much. His excuse? His doctor claim obviously means he is town (it's not an excuse).

Mocsta: Basically the fact that his votes gone through Onegu, Sciberia, and JJD in very rapid succession. He is all over the place with a lot of his reads.

JJD: I'm not entirely sure. Something about his Rayn vote and tunneling me.

Jampi (Chezinu): Jampi has been non-existant the whole game and would probably be the unanimous wagon if he had not been replaced and forced us to talk about other people.

Rean (You): Rean's filter is short and according to Aqua he gave very little of his own opinions and some other stuff. Ask Aqua about the Rean case.


This is appreciated, and rean's filter is short is like saying an ant is small. He is Rayne inverse. Which is quite bad.

Give chezzy and me a day to make acquaintance, and awaken the powers that slumber within caves, such that the war of the trolls shall declare the victorious town. (Let Chezinu catch up it is only fair- let me too please same reason. I assume that is why we aren't up for lynch yet.)

Jar jar drinks: VOTING FOR RAYNE- no stfu ppl. That isn't alignment indicative. It IS NOT.

Mocsta: ok. Well, I ask: if town always knew what was up town would win every game. However, is there incoherence on an unusual level?

Holyflare: ummm...

Well I have claimed tracker day one so not much comment yet. Trying to avoid hissyfit bias too, we are in two games now...

And ONEGU: most useful part of your post. Time to look closer! I may "sheep" you, but I want to see what is up from others plz kthx


Hi, I r chez. Did you obtain summary of what is going on? I only got sighs...

CHEZINU!!!

Yes! I think CDGCORAZON is a good one, what about you?

I am wanting to ask also, do you sell the balm for insanity? I have been afflicted by LXIII, go not there


With the dragon gone, my chances of winning skyrockets. However, style before victory. Having both the sun and the dragon live in the end is a more stylish victory. Just need to feed the dragon something else...

Right, you have no idea what I'm talking about.

Not now. Not with the flares, sighs, and those that wish mocsta's demise.


btw this guy is saying cora is town and me, onegu and people on mocsta wagon are priority pplz, yet he won't actively say it to anyone because he doesn't want to help

I'm pretty sure "sighs" is sciberbia

sweet, does that mean i am the cyborg? (because i am)
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 25 2013 17:17 GMT
#1926
I feel fairly confident 2 scum are in the replacement group.

likely: {jampi, HF}
possible or town with reservations: {rean, mocsta, onegu}

I know aqua, thrawn, and cora are all vouching for mocsta being town, but I'll be standing by this read for now. I'm pretty disappointed with myself for not standing up for my JJD read and I don't want to make the same mistake of getting influenced by my strong town reads again.
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 02:06 GMT
#2004
what do you mean scum claim by delay KP usage? I support the jampi lynch. and yeah, white mafia is my epic fail scum game.
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 02:36 GMT
#2022
cora, please check mocsta. please!!!
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 02:41 GMT
#2025
if onegu is scum, he will eventually get lynched. if mocsta is the last scum, he'll run with it to the end.

though I guess if it's true, the presence of a cop AND a doc means there's probably a mafia godfather or some other power role.
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 02:47 GMT
#2028
hold up... why didn't you check onegu night 1? wasn't he your strongest scum read all day?
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 02:57 GMT
#2034
got it. well do whatever you think is best, I can't stop you.

I wanted to see what mocsta's reaction would be. can't tell if I'm "CB" atm. I'll think about it after the flip.
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 03:40 GMT
#2042
Cora, pardon if I missed it - am on my phone. what's the motivation for claiming and telling the thread who you're going to check like 30 mins before the deadline? vs. claiming after the night post?
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 03:45 GMT
#2043
##Vote: Onegu

I think I'm being paranoid.
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 03:56 GMT
#2048
good job team.

mocsta forgive me, I was wrong.
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 14:59 GMT
#2190
I was entertaining the idea that onegu was framed or a miller, but the way onegu and HF are reacting makes me feel pretty good that they are scum together. however I do have some lingering paranoia - would you guys be willing to humor me and vote HF out first? there's a tiny chance onegu was framed or is a miller, but about a 0% chance HF is actually a doctor.
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 17:07 GMT
#2197
Cora has been a pretty unwavering town read for me since n1/d2. his explanation to moc of why he never gave scib a strong town read in his posting was extremely solid. while I don't know if I agree with him claiming 40 min before the deadline was over, his rationalization of it was consistent with a townie mindset in my opinion.

compare this to HF whose explanations and rationalizations for his actions are completely inconsistent with an actual blue role. I cannot believe for a moment he would be around at the deadline and change his save target to Cora without even questioning Cora's motivations, considering the suspicions he has of him. combined with the way he acted N1, it is basically impossible that even the most confused and foolish of doctors would do the things he's doing.

I think onegu is a good lynch but HF is a safer one. when we are at mylo I don't see any harm in being risk averse, and I hope you guys will agree.

also this last bit might be a bit of a stretch, but considering how he implies cora should've checked him he's probably the GF. if he flips GF we know that the scum check on onegu is basically unquestionable.

##Unvote
##Vote: Holyflare
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 23:34 GMT
#2230
post your vet flavor right meow
Bereft
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1007 Posts
November 26 2013 23:55 GMT
#2231
please cora, it's not that we doubt you.

I just think we need to be careful since it's MYLO and we can't discount the possibility of mafia steamrolling us.

voting HF is like the difference between lynching someone who's 98% probability scum vs 93% probability scum. I know those numbers are completely arbitrary, but those are basically my confident intervals. there's no downside in getting rid of HF first, and doing so may give us an indication of red power roles. I'm inclined to think HF is GF because of his holier than thou attitude whenever we ask him about motive (see: "I'm too meta for this game", etc). if a cop check came back green on him, he could claim he was trying to draw fire power in lieu of a more townie member (effectively what he's trying to do now with his vet claim now that we are making him sweat).

Cora, think of it this way: why take that 4% chance there's a miller or framer at play when there's no harm in saving onegu for tomorrow?
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