Newbie Mini Mafia LI

On January 06 2014 06:08 Balla24 wrote:
I would like to nominate myself for longest pre-game filter of 2014...

On January 06 2014 07:29 Balla24 wrote:
Who's gonna help me create a tough environment for mafia to hide in & help me lynch some mafia? If so, how do you suggest we proceed in day 1?

My top priorities are

- to start the game at a very high pace, to make sure that lurking is not only discouraged but also easy to spot and call out.
- immediately start some conversation by having some arguments (this is where its a bit tricky), we need people to fos right away when they feel off about somebody so that we can start reading each other.

On January 06 2014 07:55 Balla24 wrote:
You must of misunderstood me... "my goals of catching scum" not specifically my OWN priorities. I'm fine with others having their own priorities, but overall this game is about catching scum.

Another point, i'm not active in lynching lurkers, that's not what he said and its not what I said. My goal is to create an environment where it's HARD to survive as a lurker, that is, a very active game where the lurker #s are down very very low and are easy to single out. If it comes to the point where i have to lynch a lurker because there's no better lynch I will but that is not my priority.

On January 06 2014 08:13 onlywonderboy wrote:

Are policy debates generally considered to be distracting? I find analyzing people's opinions on policy and trying to find scum based on that more productive than just lynching lurkers.

On January 06 2014 08:16 sidesprang wrote:
Oh, Balla not Bella, sorry. And I got mad cause people wrote my name wrong last game :O


Anyhow, regarding the lurker situation, I will +1 Balla's idea. As long as we get everyone to contribute in some way it will make the game so much easier.

But for my experience lurkers are not more mafia than town, my last game two lurkers got modkilled day 3 and they were both town, so we should push them to contribute and not blindly lynch them because of it. If we get to the end of day1 and we have no strong scumreads I can support a lurkerlynch just because that could be the best option. But untill then I won't be talking about lynching lurkers.

On January 06 2014 07:35 TheChyz wrote:
I agree with lurking to be discouraged by just lynching them for the most part. If they are scum then that's an easy kill, if they are town they provide nothing helpful and might cause some confusion in finding actual scum.

On January 06 2014 07:47 TheChyz wrote:
Why so eager to have people help you achieve your goals? Maybe they don't agree with them. If onlywonderboy is right, then your rules help you if you are scum as well since you seem to be very active in which lynching lurkers would help your cause of staying alive. Also having people fight can cause confusion in the town. So I don't see a reason why people should just help you achieve your goals.

On January 06 2014 12:08 TheChyz wrote:
Ok I think my little posts before I had to go afk helped generate enough argument to start conversations going. I actually total love the idea of trying to catch bandwagoners early and since Balla posted something similar to the train of thought I usually have I thought someone would catch the link. If you did, congrats.

On January 06 2014 11:58 suki wrote:
Okay then, lets get back to scumhunting :D

On January 07 2014 01:16 suki wrote:
Hi Chyz,

Can you share your thoughts on Dragoon/BigDad for me as well?

On January 07 2014 03:31 Derrida wrote:
somewhat offtopic: + Show Spoiler +

On January 07 2014 02:26 chinstrap wrote:
Ok boys and girls I am back from work and ready to Sherlock Holmes this shit up.



I would very much like a answer to this question with a reasonable level of depth and thought if possible as I think it is important.

On January 07 2014 03:45 Asuna wrote:
Who knows, maybe they are masons and aren't evil buddies, but I definitely do feel like he's hiding something like Dragoon said.

On January 07 2014 17:33 Day_Walker wrote:
Ok Dragoon seems more or less done talking, and I want to hear Balla's take on my thoughts.

Let's talk about lurkers.

dnyarri
+ Show Spoiler +

sidesprang
+ Show Spoiler +

onlywonderboy
+ Show Spoiler +

I've said nothing about Dragoon's behavior. I don't think I have to. Based on the actions of other players, I'm fairly confident that we just saw the mafia run a bandwagon.

I'm not dismissing the reads of suki and Jonny (the only two people who have made substantial arguments for lynching Dragoon). But if Dragoon is scum, we can get him later. He is at least willing to be around and talk with the Town. And most importantly, we have better lynch targets. I ordered the lurkers from most to least scummy, and I think that either dnyarri or sidesprang would make a solid lynch.

## Vote dnyarri

On January 07 2014 21:38 sidesprang wrote:
Only way that post makes sense if Day_Walker is mafia is if thedragoon is mafia. With 9 votes on a player, why would you try to change the vote in any way if you were mafia, unless the person with the 9 votes were your mafia buddy.

Atleast that is what pops to my head first when trying to see it from a mafia perspective.

On January 07 2014 23:12 suki wrote:
Chinstrap I disagree with you that people who are defending theDragoon at this point are more likely to be innocent, because it could also be a mafia team going 'oh shit, this is getting serious'. The action of switching shouldn't be the issue, but rather the motivations of switching.

On January 07 2014 21:44 chinstrap wrote:


Bandwaggoning is the obvious mafia play now. The vote is incred 1 sided, voting for theDragoon doesn't buy towncred now, defending him actually kind of does because you are sticking your head out for no good reason.

The way DW has gone about it though is HIGHLY suspicious, he doesn't target people for any real reason. he just makes a epic long post that says nothing but I want to lunch lurkers cause they lurk even though I dont have a town read on theDragoon.

It is bad free towncred grab.

On January 08 2014 05:35 onlywonderboy wrote:

I agree with a lot of what was brought up here. The more and more I think about it the more I start to doubt the Day_Walker/Dragoon pair. This mostly has to do with how things have played out since Dragoon got a large portion of the votes. I agree that Day_Walker has put forth way more effort into defending Dragoon after his doom seemed inevitable and decided to rally his cause around a lurker that it would be hard to gather support for. If Dragoon flips town DW looks clear, but he seems to have gone out of his way to make it actually look this way. If they were both scum it's unlikely he would be defending him so vehemently.

On January 07 2014 23:21 chinstrap wrote:


Reread this:



I'm saying not saying the act of defending = innocence or guilt. I am saying that defending is a way to buy towncred at this point because it is inherently going against the tide (and the innocent child thanks to the timing of the 2 posts i have issue with)

My problem is with the way DW goes about it and how he draws his conclusions. The whole lurker issue is counterproductive and pro mafia as I stated multiple pages ago.

On January 08 2014 06:58 Balla24 wrote:
NO FUCK OFF YOU GUYS

On January 08 2014 06:58 Balla24 wrote:
NO FUCK OFF YOU GUYS

On January 08 2014 07:14 Balla24 wrote:


I'm not in this camp... wtf? Posts right before you get lynched are totally WIFOM... mafia always does that, so does town clearly... the only thing thats different is he listed in order people from scummy to least scummy. But beyond that? Nah cmon...

On January 08 2014 07:25 JonnyLaw wrote:



That's only true if dnyarri and balla are both town.

If they're both scum you realize balla controlled the last vote needed to lynch dnyarri right?

If dnyarri's scum it doesn't necessarily mean balla is scum, he could be mistaken but it points in that direction.

On January 08 2014 06:58 Balla24 wrote:
NO FUCK OFF YOU GUYS

On January 09 2014 01:40 Balla24 wrote:
Last thing on the vote switch: I agree with suki, it looks townie... but I think it ends up being pretty non-indicative of alignment until we get a flip on dynyarri and he flips scum. If he flips scum then it is totally town-indicative, if not then it's totally non-indicative.

On January 07 2014 12:41 Asuna wrote:
I don't feel any purpose in bandwagoning a vote(as opposed to casting more suspicion) when there's so many already, as it wouldn't contribute anything to the debate. Right now I'm waiting on his apparently big post thing. That said, if the deadline were now I'd vote for him, but since we have 18 hours I don't really feel the need to add another drop into the bucket of vote lynch.

On January 08 2014 06:24 Asuna wrote:
Back just in time. So no point talking about Dragoon, he pretty much has the noose around him. I do feel rather iffy about DW like others have said before, concerning how he started off sort of as a narrator, and then the timing of his defense. But the odd thing is what actually made me start to view him as scummy was how Jonny saw him, namely jonny didn't pursue DW for semi-lurking like he did OWB, even after it was pointed out to him, but to be fair DW did say he might be disappearing... and besides the popular opinion now is that Jonny is town so...

Dragoon doesn't need another vote. He's pretty well dead. I'm going to throw my vote on DW just to keep it in the record that I think he's fishy.

##Vote: Day_Walker

On January 09 2014 02:08 Derrida wrote:
Wow, what an end to day 1. Here's my initial reaction to what went down in the last hours of day 1, will reply to the comments raised by Suki and Balla in a separate post later tonight.

If I was around I would have definitely changed my vote after reading this:

+ Show Spoiler +

This just SHOUTS townie no matter how last minute, I wouldn't believe that the Dragoon could fake this act if he was scum given his previous level of reads. The foundation of my vote on him was that it was a "win-win situation," but reading his filter, it is clear that his analyses are improving as the game develops. I would probably unvote Dragoon, so I'm curious why more people who were present at the time of the deadline did not back down? Going through the final hour, it seems only Balla was actively there who didn't switch his vote, which is suspicious on its own, but his reaction to the switch is just odd, and he later apologizes for his "heated" reaction, which is odd once again because I mean come on, it wasn't that heated of a moment, was it? Day_Walker has came to Balla's aid by claiming that



But, for me, if someone was to do this, it would be Balla who has been consistently spearheading discussion, pressuring people, and doing in-depth analysis. It just seems that he is the most experienced and/or better player here, which means that such a move would may only be expected of him if he was scum, now he is guaranteed townie in everyones eyes. I mean how does that switch hurt Balla, and why does he just react that way? Which brings me to my next point; why did Jonny switch his vote? Seems as if the only thing that came out of his switch was Balla's reaction, which confirmed him townie in people's eyes. It seems as if this was a coordinated play by two good players to anchor themselves as townies and drag the town into mayhem.

Now, even though I would unvote Dragoon, I don't see the point of jumping on the Dnyarri bandwagon just to policy lynch lurkers. It is true that he did not bring much to the table, but the fact that he was the first to vote on Dragoon (pointed raised by Jonny), doesn't say much about him to lynch. It is something to lynch him for lurking, but I mean switching your vote because he was the first to vote for Dragoon is something completely different. In his vote for Dragoon, Dnyarri says:



In my opinion this is just bad play and faulty analysis on the part of Dnyarri made just to have said something. Furthermore, noone jumps on this bandwagon by quoting Dnyarri so it is further irrelevant that Dnyarri was the one to vote first on Dragoon, which makes Jonny's switch even more suspicious.

On January 07 2014 21:55 sidesprang wrote:
Regarding dnyarri i'm not sold on him being mafia, and not on him being a better lynch either. His first two post were questionable at best, but his third one I really liked.

There are only two reasons to lynch a lurker as I see it.

1. There are no clear active mafia candidate
2. You will never be able to read the lurker.

I think when he posts some more we will be able to get a read on him, its not like he is posting one liners.

On January 07 2014 10:44 sidesprang wrote:
Been away most of the day sry. Skimming through the thread now. Came to this. Voting for yourself make it an autovote for me. If you are town please fight for your life, we have everything to gain. If town we will hopefully see it, if scum we will hopefully be more sure you are scum after your defence.

##Vote theDragoon





I'll be catching up for a bit, if anyone have any questions feel free to ask I'll be around for a bit. But gonna use some time catching up as a lot have been posted.

On January 09 2014 04:13 chinstrap wrote:
Also, remember then ominous Asuna missing from the early Derrida list? Keep that in mind while we bring up...

Derrida



I read this in disbelief.

'If I was around I would have definitely changed my vote after reading this:' What?

Like has been mentioned I just don't follow the rationale at all. Its bizarre to the point of ridiculousness. This is either town naivety or an actual scum claim imo. Either way based on this post scum Derrida = scum Dnyarri. Add into the fishy Asuna and the Asunaless list? Trifecta? Maybe, I call it a 50 / 50 scum / naive town.

On January 09 2014 04:21 chinstrap wrote:
So what about

Dnyarri

Now there isn't really a lot on Dnyarri apart from he started the theDragoon lynch and a FEW strange posts (in fact almost all his posts because he has so few).

Therefore Dnyarri could easily be a semi afk town or a lurking mafia (he has given no indication as to why he would be a semi afk town)

However if he is town I would be VERY VERY confident that Derrida is also. Derrida's analysis of day 1 is a massive lurch to defend Dnyarri. If Derrida were mafia (and hence knew Dnyarri's alignment) he would have 0 incentive to protect him at this point at all. Like none. The only rationale that makes sense if Dnyarri flips town is that Derrida's day 1 analysis falls into the naive town 50 percentile.

On January 09 2014 07:58 Balla24 wrote:


Well we can't rule out 0Ts. Just cause we have VTs flip doesn't mean that. But ruling out 6T and 7T yeah

On January 10 2014 01:50 Balla24 wrote:
I think if dnyarri is scum then that is alignment indicative of OWB; he almost got him lynched!

On January 10 2014 02:58 Balla24 wrote:
Basically, all my scum reads have voted for or are pushing dnyarri... that's a pretty big tell that dnyarri will flip town.

On January 09 2014 02:08 Derrida wrote:
Now, even though I would unvote Dragoon, I don't see the point of jumping on the Dnyarri bandwagon just to policy lynch lurkers. It is true that he did not bring much to the table, but the fact that he was the first to vote on Dragoon (pointed raised by Jonny), doesn't say much about him to lynch. It is something to lynch him for lurking, but I mean switching your vote because he was the first to vote for Dragoon is something completely different. In his vote for Dragoon, Dnyarri says:



In my opinion this is just bad play and faulty analysis on the part of Dnyarri made just to have said something. Furthermore, noone jumps on this bandwagon by quoting Dnyarri so it is further irrelevant that Dnyarri was the one to vote first on Dragoon, which makes Jonny's switch even more suspicious.