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Sorry I was away, am back now and boy have things heated up.
On January 07 2014 03:39 TheChyz wrote:
Ok so I only have an hour cause of break at school and then going to be gone for about 10 or so hours so I will try to do as much as I can in this hour.
On January 07 2014 04:19 TheChyz wrote:
Ok unfortunately I will be afk for 9-10 hours. But for the last time Derrida, can you answer me why I do not seem scummy to you more in-depth?
Dunno if your just lazy or trying to stir up things, either way, bad sign for you.
Since most of the voting seems to be regarding on Dragoon I will wait until he returns to add more to the argument (or maybe not, read ahead and you will see). I still don't want people to forget about dnyarri. To me it seems like typical scum play, ie do nothing first day, post a little and try to cause no commotion, go back into lurking until it is day 2. I will have a post again soon as I want to re-read filters and make sure I am not mistaking my argument due to just reading too quickly.
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Ok the more I read the more it seems like Day_Walker is trying to defend , accuse others, and distance himself from Dragoon, while Dragoon is doing the same to Day_Walker. However it seems that Day_Walker is just better at defending himself (or so it seems to me) than Dragoon. If you read Day_Walkers filter, you will find him hoping from one person to another in almost every single post. This seems like he is hoping for somebody to maybe latch on to one of his posts and cause more confusion in the town. I am still fine with both as lynches and I guess I will wait until Dragoon returns to actually decide much more clearly.
##Unvote
Unvoting because I think there could be better lynch targets but just going to wait on the dragoon response/something else drastic to happen.
Also what are people's opinions on dnyarri?
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Thats a stupid excuse Jonny. Why not address him now? Dragoon is in enough of a hole where I don't think he will want to sheep onto peoples ideas anyway since it won't help him prove his innocence. What have you got to hide?
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The only problem I have with an dnyarri vote is that it won't really tell us much apart from what HIS alignment is, however somebody else as a lynch (like Dragoon for example), will help us gain some information on other players regardless of alignment.
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Everybody has to start to make up their mind. IMO Dragoon himself has not cleared his name, the person that has done that for him is DW. His so called defense after the martyr to me felt like garbage and he has done almost nothing to help scumhunt. The current vote on dnyarri IS in fact useless because apart from the votes onto him, there is no information to be gained whatsoever. However Dragoon has played a terrible game and has done nothing productive to the town, infact all he has done is cause confusion (as well as DW), which in this case is worse than dnyarri. His allignment will also say SO much more than dnyarri's will
From the beginning of the game Dragoon and DW have been defending themselves and it has been very suspicious. Personally I just thing DW knows too much and my vote would be on him because regardless if for some reason Dragoon ends up being town, DW will use the "i told you card". He seems very adamant on dnyarri, but it seems to me like he is just hoping that since I voted for him I would be able to help lead the bandwagon on the lurker or somebody else will. To me I find that DW has also barely helped town scum hunt in the fact that he just tries to attack everybody in the game but only a little bit, never with a vote, and has been defensive about Dragoon from the start. Too much defending Dragoon and not enough scum hunting.
##Vote: Day_Walker
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EBWOP:
##Vote: Day_Walker
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BTW I will be gone in about 20 minutes until about 30 minutes before the deadline. So I will be able to make a final vote, but not really contribute too much apart from what I can now. At the moment I would still be willing to lynch theDragoon but I see Day_Walker as a stronger vote. My vote on dnyarri was to get him to talk, which hasn't really helped much, but I would not be willing to lynch a lurker just yet when there are others that are acting pretty scummy.
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Both mafia and town can self vote at anypoint so your question is not only irrelevant but is sidetracking more important things
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Unless u think u can get ur people u talk about lynched or saved from a Lynch, I think it would be better to wait until night
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Hmm so I still think it is more likely that Day_Walker is scum based on facts alone. To me it seems very unlikely that DW and Dragoon are both town (only thing that was possible is they were maybe both masons but I didn't want to mention it so that they couldn't play that card to try and trick town). The next possibilities that seems not very likely is that DW is town and Dragoon is scum just based upon how they have played so far. Therefore the two most likely options to me seem that either DW and Dragoon are scum, or DW is scum and Dragoon is town, which is why I would have prefered a DW lynch. However with 30 minutes to go I don't think it is a good idea to try and switch other peoples vote since it might cause nobody to get lynched. This is my last post until after deadline (gonna bus home ~1 hour) but just in case to secure the vote i'll switch, although as hesitant as I am, because Dragoon has played a pretty bad game if he is town and I don't think we should be to blame because of his lack of effort once a few votes piled on him.
##Unvote
##Vote: theDragoon
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Ok so I got to sit back a bit and watch all this bullshit happen. And I have loads to say.
First off, the switching of votes to me seems very scummy. In the last 30 minutes there should almost never be a drastic vote switch because a) not everybody is here and, b) confuses town on who to vote for. Also to all those people being like "omg it was so obvious he was town with his last post" I have a few things to say to you. If you ignore his actual flip, there is actually little from his last few posts that seem obvious town to me and I could (and have) see it being done from a scum perspective as well.
Now there is still a person that some people were slightly suspicious of but in the night, (unless I have missed something) NOTHING was targetted at him. That person would be DW. He seems to get out free just because of what exactly? That Dragoon is town?. I even said in my last few posts before the day ended that the two most likely scenarios to me seem like no matter what Dragoon's alliance that DW is probably scum. After the day ended, he then makes a nice post showing how he "[didn't] have a strong read on Dragoon" and it looks to me more like trying to clear his own name. He also tries to say how he "certainly wasn't going to try and defend Dragoon without good evidence" when in fact he did. It all seems like he is just trying to backtrack to his earlier comments and try to cover them up with many excuses which I can point out many flaws in them. Currently he has done nothing to clear his name and I don't like how he is getting a free pass while being able to make so many lies. Currently I would put him as one person on the scum team.
Jonny, oh jonny. The whole game since the moment you entered I have been getting this read that from your posts you seem to be super arrogant as if nothing can stop you. Balla has mentioned thats how you play, but I still think your acting as if you are the best in the game, calling player bad and saying that something along the lines of "Oh, if only I came earlier, I could have saved Dragoon". That just seems like your full of shit and that you are trying to portray this motion where you could have saved Dragoon. And the only case you make is the dnyarri voted on him first. WHAT? this is stupidly outrageous. Yes dnyarri so far has been looking fairly scummy but his vote on Dragoon was done LONG before most of town started to talk extensively about him. It just seems like a typical scum idea of "oh, lets pin it on the guy that voted on him first and hope to get another townie lynched". There are much better reasons to try to lynch dnyarri but all you came up with is his vote on Dragoon as the first one. There's a little more but I don't wanna make this post super long. At the moment Jonny is my scum read number 2.
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Well dnyarri just decided to join a mafia game with little time on his hands (which hopefully he won't join anymore if busy) or is just scum trying to stall to recreate answers. Either way a liability to town since we will never truly know his role unless flipped.
##Vote: Dnyarri
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Like "I will not be giving long analysis or asking questions" is probably the two best ways to read if someone is town or not, giving 1-2 line responses are probably the easiest thing to do and show almost no thought process being attempted.
Question to dnyarri then: If you could lynch 2 people right now and be able to save 1 in the night, who would they be?
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I think that no matter what dnyarri would be a good lynch target for the reasons I have specified before as in we have no idea if he is scum or town. I can point out something scummy in every single post and even if he is town, since he is so uninvested into the game means that he can easily be swayed by scum. In a sense it would be better if he was modkilled but I think as the case that he happens to do enough to satisfy the requirements to stay in the game each day, he is a liability to town itself (unless you want to gamble and hope he votes well) or he ends up being scum.
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On January 09 2014 03:43 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2014 00:29 suki wrote:OnlyWonderBoy:I think the tD/DW scumbuddy theory was a bit farfetched, and even theDragoon felt it was pushed too far. As the third person on theDragoon's list of people who pursued that argument, I feel like it's prudent to look into OnlyWonderBoy. On the last minute switch: + Show Spoiler +
First thing to note is that he did try to last-minute vote switch with Jonny onto dnyarri. I feel that this makes him a definite town, but thinking further this applies only if dnyarri flips red. If dnyarri flips green it makes no difference to him to switch and it could be a move to grab town cred. Again, you can't argue one way or another without knowing dnyarri's alignment so I won't consider any of this in my analysis.
One thing that stands out to me is that OWB has talked about only three people: Derrida, Dragoon and Day_Walker His impression on Derrida seems to be neutral so far, and that he thinks Derrida's early Day 1 play seems influenced more by inexperience than scumminess. He was third to vote for theDragoon which I feel is a point in his favour, although his reasoning is based on the td/DW theory: On January 07 2014 05:27 onlywonderboy wrote:My main scum reads at the moment are Dragoon and Day_Walker. They seem to be interacting a decent amount, which isn't inherently scummy, but they go out of there way to distance themselves from each other. Dragoon says "For the record, I want to make it clear that I never said I completely trust Day_Walker," Then Day_Walker says: On January 06 2014 21:03 Day_Walker wrote:At the risk of playing into the "Day_Walker and theDragoon are protecting each other because they are both scum" read, what do you make of theDragoon standing up for Asuna? On January 06 2014 15:49 theDragoon wrote:On January 06 2014 15:30 JonnyLaw wrote:
Excuses, bandwagoning and self doubt in one line.
I'm down to lynch Asuna or OWB at this point.
Dragoon and Chyz read more as if they're trying but misguided.
That's enough of a reason to lynch Asuna? I don't see that as good enough to suspect Asuna of being mafia, unless you know more than what you've said there. Those 3 things you listed there is just a sign of an inexperienced player, it has nothing to do with being a scum. Off the top of my head I can think of only two scenarios where this is consistent with theDragoon scum AND Asuna townie: 1) Scum are protecting some townies to make things harder to read. 2) Scum are trying to make it easier to play the "I'm a newbie" card. I understand wanting to get out ahead of these accusations, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it simply because he pushed Dragoon slightly. These just seem like they are trying to distance themselves early so if either if them go down we don't suspect them as a scum pair. I think he was the one to first throw out the idea that tD and DW were trying to distance themselves from each other. He doesn't state any other reasons to suspect either tD or DW. Just before the end of the day, he states: The more and more I think about it the more I start to doubt the Day_Walker/Dragoon pair. This mostly has to do with how things have played out since Dragoon got a large portion of the votes. I agree that Day_Walker has put forth way more effort into defending Dragoon after his doom seemed inevitable and decided to rally his cause around a lurker that it would be hard to gather support for. If Dragoon flips town DW looks clear, but he seems to have gone out of his way to make it actually look this way. If they were both scum it's unlikely he would be defending him so vehemently. He is doubting that tD and DW are a pair. He states "If Dragoon flips town DW looks clear", but he follows that up with "he seems to have gone out of his way to make it actually look this way" which implies that he finds the DW's hard defense of tD suspicious in itself. When he last-minute switches to dnyarri (following Jonny's lead), he says he "wanted DW over Dragoon anyway". Nothing stands out to me in OWB's filter as particularly scummy so I'm going to rate him as neutral at the moment, although I'm not liking the fact that the only analysis he's contributed against tD/DW is on the scum buddy theory. to OnlyWonderBoy: I really want to hear your thoughts on what went down. I also want to see more analysis on why you wanted Day_Walker over theDragoon in Day 1, and what your thoughts on him are after the flip. I want to hear your top scum picks because so far your only suspects have been theDragoon and Day_Walker. I admit I was a bit overzealous with the Dragoon/DW pair. There was a light connection so I don't feel bad about pushing it to start. I've previously stated why I started to shy away from Dragoon and the DW pair (revolving around how DW played after it seemed certain Dragoon was gonna get lynched). It was not Dragoon's impassioned plea that changed my mind about him. I still think there's a chance DW is scum so I at least tried to move the focus towards him. So DW is still one of my top scum picks. In regards to what happened at deadline, I think a lot of players were just putting their faith in Jonny's vote. Like I said, I'm not 100% sure of dnyarri being scum, but I was willing to take the risk knowing that if he could flip town. Personally I was voting more to save Dragoon than to kill dnyarri (who of course, could be scum). Several other players mentioned how they were convinced of Dragoon's innocence due to his final post so that could have made it easier for them to switch last minute.In terms of other possible scum players, I'm of course suspicious of dnyarri like a lot of players now. Really hope he shows up so we get some sort of insight on his play. Don't have any other solid scum reads right now so I guess my main focus is on dnyarri and Day_Walker. Still not sure about Derrida, but I'm still leaning towards bad town rather than scum. Might need to look into him more.
These two last paragraphs really caught my attention. Now what I think is the case is that since scum KNEW that Dragoon was town, I'm assuming that atleast one of them would switch their vote in order to buy credibility (assuming that dnyarri is not scum). Now from those 6, only 3 are left alive. OWB, Bigdad, and DW. Town needs to start gaining some focus on lynch targets since our Day 2 has sucked compared to day 1, so I suggest we mainly focus on these 3.
Out of all of them I find OWB the most suspicious and a big part of it comes from the bolded paragraphs. He was "personally voting more to save Dragoon than to kill dnyarri" which reads to me as if he knows that dragoon is 100% town and is willing to kill another to prove it. He mentions the useless line after that, "Several other players mentioned how they were convinced of Dragoon's innocence due to his final post so that could have made it easier for them to switch last minute" which to me seems like he is looking for an excuse for why he was along with one of those people. note its how other people were convinced, but not himself? strange way to just follow a crowd, no? AND WAIT, what happens after the flip, he becomes "SUSPICIOUS" of dnyarri when it seems what most people are doing. What happened to your "I'm killing dnyarri more to save Dragoon". If you were so suspicious why would you need that excuse? Makes you look more town credible for trying to save a towny, right? And that last minute vote switch from the towny, very smooth. Also that slight defense on Derrida at the end, the icing on top imo.
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Oops forgot to
##Unvote
##Vote: onlywonderboy
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In my opinion Jonny and Derrida almost never interacted except for a little bit near the end. I think that derrida just went along whatever the other scum had chosen as their kill (in this case, Jonny).
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DW, do you still think dnyarri is also scum, why or why not?
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I think overall I still prefer owb over bigdad just because of my case on him that I made about all of the things he did before the Dragoon vote. However it may just be that I'm just slightly tunnel visioning on him more than bigdad. I think that both owb and bigdad have had useless day 2 posts (maybe a little more on bigdad's side) but that still doesn't overcome argument I made on owb.
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EPT
