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On November 05 2013 11:40 Vanesco wrote:So I will address my opinion's of Cephiro RIGHT before his massive post and then address the huge post. He comes into the game giving a vote and no real reasonings. He also hides many of his reads by saying he has secondary reasons for voting WoS and that he doesn't feel that his SEVERAL reads are worth sharing. I understand not wanting to share all of them but effectively the only read that seems obvious is that you are suspicious of WoS (before the massive post). It seems like the connection that me and WoS is all one-sided from WoS's filter POV. It seems like the only player you have focused on ever since entering the game has been WoS, as if you are tunnel visioning. And the connection between us is also only done from WoS's point of view. Is it also possible that he is scum and I am town and he is trying to find reasons for others to jump on me for an easy day 1 lynch? Or is it maybe possible we are both town and he had suspicions on me and is questioning my play? I also think that a day 1 lynch on WoS is not a good idea since most people have either expressed they think he is town, or have not given a read on him (I'm assuming for now those mean null). I thought before that WoS was a little scummy but since then he become slightly town for me. His frustration with Cephiro's arguments seem to be something that a fed up town would do. I think that most people in the thread will agree with me that there are targets that seem more suspicious than WoS. Maybe Cephiro is trying to deflect off of somebody that was being targetted? He seems very much to want to keep the discussion on mainly WoS and only WoS.
This is very interesting to me actually. Simple case scenario (which is what I tend to go by) says that no scum would ever put that crazy amount of effort into a post. Despite playing with him a couple times, I don't feel I know Cephiro well enough as to whether he would put that kind of effort into deflection/mislynching as scum, so I am forced to consider him town for the time being based on solely the sheer length of that post, which I imagine others will be doing as well.
The problem there is....did Cephiro know what kind of an effect his massive wall would have? Are other people inclined to give him townreads without reading?
In any case Ceph can certainly wait another day because he will eventually be forced to move off of me or do something different at SOME point, and we will be able to read him better when he does. Again for now, I see Onegu/Sn0/Umasi.
Umasi specifically, where the shit are you? I expected WAY more from you, and the longer your vote stays on Vanesco the scummier you look.
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[QUOTE]On November 05 2013 11:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
Starting up a LoL game atm, let me get back to you.
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Thrawn I believe I owe you an explanation on Onegu:
On November 05 2013 04:12 Onegu wrote:
Im out for now getting bored with this back and forth as its going nowwhere and just shitting up the thread. Lynch me if you like. Im going to look at other people as I am basicly done with WoS now. His posts are way to over the top now.
This is the last thing he said to me. All he repeatedly does is bring up how I used a subjective description of myself in my defenses to gumshoe, when that was only a tiny part and admittedly the weakest part. He refuses to even acknowledge the rest of it in the original post, and when I point it out to him, he fucks off, saying that I am 'too over the top.'
I don't even understand what the fuck that means.
If he was referring to my arrogance yeah maybe I can understand that, but I don't even use any of that until after he's long gone!
Most important thing is when I ask him to give us original content and reads all he does is harp on the whole 'subjective' thing again without offering anything new on me OR anyone else. Even then if I am his only target at the time, you'd think that it would make sense to continue to push me and convince others to vote me like at least Cephiro is doing. He does neither.
It's a half-assed attempt at not backing down from a mislynch he thought might have happened but won't, and he has nothing else to offer.
Scum.
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On November 05 2013 12:02 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 11:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Cephiro to answer to your example about WoS:
I don't think that's scummy at all. I had the same kind of train of thought about Vanesco that i see from WoS. Just because WoS did post his thought process in many parts does that make him scum? What's wrong in the thought process, i don't anything wrong with it - maybe i am biased because i thought basically the same at first and reached into similar conclusion than WoS did - but could you elaborate more on why the thought process can't come from a townie? I see your point. And I do not expect my read to be right based on one example only. It was an example only to get my point across to you. It's more about the amount of things that would be incredibly convinient for scum that happen, and the reactions of WoS that are in strong contrast with his own opinions of how a townie should play the game. Single thought processes of his could very well come from a townie yes, but looking at the whole history of his, I find it much more likely to be done from a scum perspective, for one reason alone the sheer amount of inconsistencies and his refusal to correct or address many of them. Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 11:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
Cephiro perhaps I need to be a little more clear.
NOT ONLY do I not accept that scum are more likely to be inconsistent, I wouldn't be surprised if the complete opposite is true. Have you never missed a math question, have you never forgotten anything? Why would you expect someone who rolls town in an online forum game of mafia to be perfect? Townies aren't the ones who are constantly wondering if their story adds up, mafia are. You can point out as many inconsistencies in WoS's play as you like and I will never listen to you unless you can show me how the inconsistencies are specifically scum-motivated. You need to show a clear mafia agenda behind the fuck-ups, otherwise you've just gone and pointed out a bunch of things that can probably be found in every single filter in every mafia game.
The other reason of why I don't like your case is because of the strong town vibes I feel while reading WoS's posts. I sense nothing fake/reserved/malicious/secretive about them. Alright, I very well see your point. I certainly don't expect townies to play perfectly. I personally just consider it more likely for someone that is constant pressure about being caught in a lie to be inconsistent in their story (especially the longer the story becomes), rather than for a townie that is simply telling the story as his opinions move forward. (Basically for a honest townie, the only inconsistencies come from if he doesn't care about what he said earlier, or forgot and does a sudden change of mind without reasoning, which is rare in my opinion.) Thank you for providing the reasoning behind your point though. I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong, but we'll have agree to disagree on this one it seems. At several points in the case (in my opinion), I provided good thoughts as for why the inconsistencies are especially scum-motivated. That can't be said for every point, as there are so many things to be considered ambigiously. But I tried my best to show why certain things are in my opinion clearly done from a mafia perspective.
My refusal to correct inconsistencies?
That's because THERE ARE NONE.
Cephiro bring up one example of an inconsistency from your case right now and I will show you how it's not in one instant; I wouldn't be surprised if it's already in the thread.
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Oh and I'm going to make this crystal clear right now.
I will not be around for deadline tomorrow. I may be around during my lunch hour but after tonight assume this will be the end of my activity for D1.
If people pull some shenannies and attempt to lynch me in that time, just know what it is you're doing exactly.
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On November 05 2013 12:32 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:29 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh and I'm going to make this crystal clear right now.
I will not be around for deadline tomorrow. I may be around during my lunch hour but after tonight assume this will be the end of my activity for D1.
If people pull some shenannies and attempt to lynch me in that time, just know what it is you're doing exactly. You best be voting for Sn0 if you bailin'
The issue I have with Sn0 is him basically refusing to contribute today. Would scum flat-out refuse to contribute when pressured? I guess it's possible but ugh.
I have mentioned I would be comfortable with any of those three getting lynched and if people absolutely won't switch to Onegu then maybe I will.
OO on the note of contribution, what has Umasi done that Sn0 hasn't? What are your thoughts on him atm?
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On November 05 2013 12:37 Umasi wrote:
I disagree with the aggression on WoS, how he's playing is pretty much in keeping with a town WoS. That said, don't be so angry wave, you're kind of overreacting.
Regardless, would it piss everyone off to say I still think vanesco is the best lynch?
He's still the best lynch.
Umasi.
WHY.
Get in here and engage the thread or so help me I will switch to you and bring people with me.
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On November 05 2013 12:38 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:27 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 12:02 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 11:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Cephiro to answer to your example about WoS:
I don't think that's scummy at all. I had the same kind of train of thought about Vanesco that i see from WoS. Just because WoS did post his thought process in many parts does that make him scum? What's wrong in the thought process, i don't anything wrong with it - maybe i am biased because i thought basically the same at first and reached into similar conclusion than WoS did - but could you elaborate more on why the thought process can't come from a townie? I see your point. And I do not expect my read to be right based on one example only. It was an example only to get my point across to you. It's more about the amount of things that would be incredibly convinient for scum that happen, and the reactions of WoS that are in strong contrast with his own opinions of how a townie should play the game. Single thought processes of his could very well come from a townie yes, but looking at the whole history of his, I find it much more likely to be done from a scum perspective, for one reason alone the sheer amount of inconsistencies and his refusal to correct or address many of them. On November 05 2013 11:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
Cephiro perhaps I need to be a little more clear.
NOT ONLY do I not accept that scum are more likely to be inconsistent, I wouldn't be surprised if the complete opposite is true. Have you never missed a math question, have you never forgotten anything? Why would you expect someone who rolls town in an online forum game of mafia to be perfect? Townies aren't the ones who are constantly wondering if their story adds up, mafia are. You can point out as many inconsistencies in WoS's play as you like and I will never listen to you unless you can show me how the inconsistencies are specifically scum-motivated. You need to show a clear mafia agenda behind the fuck-ups, otherwise you've just gone and pointed out a bunch of things that can probably be found in every single filter in every mafia game.
The other reason of why I don't like your case is because of the strong town vibes I feel while reading WoS's posts. I sense nothing fake/reserved/malicious/secretive about them. Alright, I very well see your point. I certainly don't expect townies to play perfectly. I personally just consider it more likely for someone that is constant pressure about being caught in a lie to be inconsistent in their story (especially the longer the story becomes), rather than for a townie that is simply telling the story as his opinions move forward. (Basically for a honest townie, the only inconsistencies come from if he doesn't care about what he said earlier, or forgot and does a sudden change of mind without reasoning, which is rare in my opinion.) Thank you for providing the reasoning behind your point though. I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong, but we'll have agree to disagree on this one it seems. At several points in the case (in my opinion), I provided good thoughts as for why the inconsistencies are especially scum-motivated. That can't be said for every point, as there are so many things to be considered ambigiously. But I tried my best to show why certain things are in my opinion clearly done from a mafia perspective. My refusal to correct inconsistencies? That's because THERE ARE NONE. Cephiro bring up one example of an inconsistency from your case right now and I will show you how it's not in one instant; I wouldn't be surprised if it's already in the thread. Alright, let's start with this one. Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 15:51 WaveofShadow wrote:
Anyone is welcome to comment on Vanesco basically taking the out I gave him and running with it, because I still lean towny on him, but ughhhhhhhhh Why would you give him a free out if you lean town on him, and THEN basically invite everyone to jump on it? It makes absolutely no sense from a town perspective. I can still understand giving a free out to someone you think is town to try and help them, but then pointing them out for taking it? I can't see this from a town perspective no matter how I look at it. If I assume you are town doing this -> You're giving a free bone for scum to take up on. If you think Vanesco was town, there is absolutely no reason for you to do that, as if anything it makes him look worse. Also the fact that you're asking someone else to do the job for you.
I didn't do it specifically TO give him the out. My case for him being town was an out by nature. It wasn't a bait to see how he'd react but it interested me nonetheless. In the end it seems as though he took ET's out rather than mine, even though they basically amounted to the same thing. After the point at which I decided he was town rather than scum I never wavered from that point.
A free bone for scum to pick up on and do what? Try to fight against me? Like Umasi is still doing with his vote on Vanesco? Look at where it's landing him in my books right now. Come on, Ceph.
As far as me making him look bad, Vanesco already looked really bad at that point; his play since that point has looked much better---he is actively looking everywhere to find scum, keeping an open mind and engaging in conversation.
Anything else?
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On November 05 2013 12:42 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:36 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 12:32 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 12:29 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh and I'm going to make this crystal clear right now.
I will not be around for deadline tomorrow. I may be around during my lunch hour but after tonight assume this will be the end of my activity for D1.
If people pull some shenannies and attempt to lynch me in that time, just know what it is you're doing exactly. You best be voting for Sn0 if you bailin' The issue I have with Sn0 is him basically refusing to contribute today. Would scum flat-out refuse to contribute when pressured? I guess it's possible but ugh. I have mentioned I would be comfortable with any of those three getting lynched and if people absolutely won't switch to Onegu then maybe I will. OO on the note of contribution, what has Umasi done that Sn0 hasn't? What are your thoughts on him atm? Umasi is on the radar, repeat, he is ON THE RADAR. Super outspoken against discussing the coven powers and thinks Vanesco is the scummiest guy in the thread. And that's pretty much it. And that's pretty underwhelming. But it's not necessarily scummy to have an out-there scum read. Would rather like to know another two scum reads from him as well because I could put his filter through a sieve and only the word Vanesco would filter out. So I'll wait 'til we get that.
/agreed.
Who thinks you're scum again this game? I froget.
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So here's something I just thought of that was brought up by Vanesco but not really pursued.
Who stands to benefit from the potential shitfest Ceph has created?
Let's assume (with good reason) that he is town for now. Who has been able to sit back while they assume the pressure will be on me?
Off the top of my head, ET/hzflank/Sylencia/Umasi.
Umasi - returns now that the pressure does. Gumshoe I am not sold on Umasi being town OR stupid. I talk with him extensively and have seen his play. He's not dumb.
hzflank - Real shifty. I don't mind the case on Sn0 but I want to have a closer look at it after this to see if it's worthy of him or something easy he just picked out. I believe he is capable of both.
ET - Where are you dude? You call me out for being stupid/insane or whatever nad haven't done anything since. Do you agree/disagree with Ceph? Scumreads?
Sylencia - Is fucking Sylencia and lurkers gonna lurk. It's a shame we don't have vig powers. Don't know what to do about him atm.
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On November 05 2013 12:46 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Here's why i don't like your case Cephiro (yeah, i decided to read it after all).
First you point out general stuff like "Scum is under constant pressure, scum is also more likely to be inconsistent.". This is not true at all, scum are far more concerned about their image and keeping their story straight than townies are. You call out WoS for trying to look like town because scum try hard to look like town. Townies don't? Then you bring up examples but you do not tell why WoS' actions are scum-motivated rather than town motivated. Then you say this: "Why would one as town ever want to intentionally cause suspicion on himself along his comrades?". You just called you WoS for doing something you are arguing against here. That's the first 33% of your case.
Next is the Van thing i addressed already. You bring up many times "this could be scumplay or townplay". That's not convincing and i stop reading an argument that says so because you yourself debunk the argument. You do not tell why WoS "defending" Van must come from scum and cannot come from a townie. That's another 33%.
Last part is saying WoS does not have definite scumreads. Nobody does because it's 24h into the game. Just because he does not make a 1000 word case 24h into D1 and is not certain of who is scum does not make him scum, or if it does in your opinion, feel free to tell why because you sure are not telling that in your case. That's the last 33% of the case.
1% is spaces. I can see your reasoning for the second point. I did give reasons why I think the defense is scum-motivated however. It does not mean that is necessarily the case, but I did provide my thoughts as for why I believe that to be the case. Your first point I don't completely agree with. Townies aren't pressured to look town in the same way, they know themselves to be town. Of course they may be worried to be misinterpreted, but they can be confident that their reads are coming from a confirmed town perspective, which scum cannot. I do provide many examples why WoS's actions are more likely to be scum-motivated rather than town motivated. I also do not see how I'm arguing against my own point? I pointed out that WoS is intentionally looking himself look bad in the early post. I then tell why I don't see that a townie should be doing that under any circumstances. Thus logically -> Scum. Repeat: Why would you ever want to look scummy intentionally, as town? He did exactly that, which is why I believe it was done by scum. Third part: It is not only about having definitive scumreads. I can understand people not being extremely certain in their reads at this point in the game. What I am more concerned is that he constantly tells how he's providing content, and ASKING OTHERS TO DO STUFF, when he's barely giving any pressure to anyone himself.I thank you for your feedback though, your second point is most valid. I still consider my case extremely well-considered, and those who haven't should read it.
Here's a question for you Rayn.
You saw me almost get lynched in ## and people's reasoning were because I had no scumreads and wasn't doing much of anything after the scumpush on Prome in the early game.
Is my play anything like my play in that game? Would you say me 'doing nothing' in that game is me 'doing nothing' in this game? Like---my mind is fucking boggled. EVen in THAT game I argued that I wasn't doing nothing, and in this game my filter is fucking full of ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING and yet I get the SAME SHIT?!
Frankly I'm insulted that you would fucking DARE to say I haven't done anything, and it's shit like this that makes me want to disengage and ignore you again. You are blatantly misrepresenting everything I have attempted to do in and for this town and until you come off your high horse with the false pretenses that you are considering all of the points people are bringing up against your case (which you actually may be, but in the end I know that you aren't budging from that spot) I have zero reason to engage you. Nothing I can or will show you will be good enough because you have set in your mind that I am a certain way. This bias is spam-Rayn bad.
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On November 05 2013 12:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
In the last game i made a similar case on WoS that Cephiro is doing now. I even think my case was stronger. He was town.
Being undecisive at this point of the game or asking other people's opinions is not scummy. That's pretty much everything i have to say. Of course it would be cool if everyone played perfectly and pressured people and shut down cases/arguments that are obviously bad but that's unfortunately what people are capable of doing.
##Vote: gumshoe
just because i do not like anything he has said this game.
LOL FUCKING NINJAD
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On November 05 2013 12:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
In the last game i made a similar case on WoS that Cephiro is doing now. I even think my case was stronger. He was town.
Being undecisive at this point of the game or asking other people's opinions is not scummy. That's pretty much everything i have to say. Of course it would be cool if everyone played perfectly and pressured people and shut down cases/arguments that are obviously bad but that's unfortunately what people are capable of doing.
##Vote: gumshoe
just because i do not like anything he has said this game.
Come on dude, this is a bit of a copout. Can you explain at all?
I really don't think a scum gumshoe would go through the effort to do what he did---do you remember his play from Basterd?
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So many people wish-washing towards a Sn0 lynch, including myself.
Makes me feel really bad about it because SO many people have mentioned it I'm sure scum are among them.
I think I will NOT be voting Sn0 today.
Syl, welcome to the thread.
Did you show up 'cause I mentioned you or was that a happy coincidence?
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On November 05 2013 13:00 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:42 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 12:38 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 12:27 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 12:02 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 11:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Cephiro to answer to your example about WoS:
I don't think that's scummy at all. I had the same kind of train of thought about Vanesco that i see from WoS. Just because WoS did post his thought process in many parts does that make him scum? What's wrong in the thought process, i don't anything wrong with it - maybe i am biased because i thought basically the same at first and reached into similar conclusion than WoS did - but could you elaborate more on why the thought process can't come from a townie? I see your point. And I do not expect my read to be right based on one example only. It was an example only to get my point across to you. It's more about the amount of things that would be incredibly convinient for scum that happen, and the reactions of WoS that are in strong contrast with his own opinions of how a townie should play the game. Single thought processes of his could very well come from a townie yes, but looking at the whole history of his, I find it much more likely to be done from a scum perspective, for one reason alone the sheer amount of inconsistencies and his refusal to correct or address many of them. On November 05 2013 11:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
Cephiro perhaps I need to be a little more clear.
NOT ONLY do I not accept that scum are more likely to be inconsistent, I wouldn't be surprised if the complete opposite is true. Have you never missed a math question, have you never forgotten anything? Why would you expect someone who rolls town in an online forum game of mafia to be perfect? Townies aren't the ones who are constantly wondering if their story adds up, mafia are. You can point out as many inconsistencies in WoS's play as you like and I will never listen to you unless you can show me how the inconsistencies are specifically scum-motivated. You need to show a clear mafia agenda behind the fuck-ups, otherwise you've just gone and pointed out a bunch of things that can probably be found in every single filter in every mafia game.
The other reason of why I don't like your case is because of the strong town vibes I feel while reading WoS's posts. I sense nothing fake/reserved/malicious/secretive about them. Alright, I very well see your point. I certainly don't expect townies to play perfectly. I personally just consider it more likely for someone that is constant pressure about being caught in a lie to be inconsistent in their story (especially the longer the story becomes), rather than for a townie that is simply telling the story as his opinions move forward. (Basically for a honest townie, the only inconsistencies come from if he doesn't care about what he said earlier, or forgot and does a sudden change of mind without reasoning, which is rare in my opinion.) Thank you for providing the reasoning behind your point though. I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong, but we'll have agree to disagree on this one it seems. At several points in the case (in my opinion), I provided good thoughts as for why the inconsistencies are especially scum-motivated. That can't be said for every point, as there are so many things to be considered ambigiously. But I tried my best to show why certain things are in my opinion clearly done from a mafia perspective. My refusal to correct inconsistencies? That's because THERE ARE NONE. Cephiro bring up one example of an inconsistency from your case right now and I will show you how it's not in one instant; I wouldn't be surprised if it's already in the thread. Alright, let's start with this one. On November 04 2013 15:51 WaveofShadow wrote:
Anyone is welcome to comment on Vanesco basically taking the out I gave him and running with it, because I still lean towny on him, but ughhhhhhhhh Why would you give him a free out if you lean town on him, and THEN basically invite everyone to jump on it? It makes absolutely no sense from a town perspective. I can still understand giving a free out to someone you think is town to try and help them, but then pointing them out for taking it? I can't see this from a town perspective no matter how I look at it. If I assume you are town doing this -> You're giving a free bone for scum to take up on. If you think Vanesco was town, there is absolutely no reason for you to do that, as if anything it makes him look worse. Also the fact that you're asking someone else to do the job for you. I didn't do it specifically TO give him the out. My case for him being town was an out by nature. It wasn't a bait to see how he'd react but it interested me nonetheless. In the end it seems as though he took ET's out rather than mine, even though they basically amounted to the same thing. After the point at which I decided he was town rather than scum I never wavered from that point. A free bone for scum to pick up on and do what? Try to fight against me? Like Umasi is still doing with his vote on Vanesco? Look at where it's landing him in my books right now. Come on, Ceph. As far as me making him look bad, Vanesco already looked really bad at that point; his play since that point has looked much better---he is actively looking everywhere to find scum, keeping an open mind and engaging in conversation. Anything else? Alright. I see the point of your first paragraph. What I meant as a free bone for scum to pick is this: If you are town, and believe Van is town as well, you pointed out a flaw in Van's play (which assumingly you didn't want to pick up on yourself, since you wanted to protect him), if so, why point it out at all? And if you really wanted to see what others thought about that without blaming him yourself, did you not consider the possibility that it is essentially a free flaw pointed out that scum can use to push a mislynch on Van? That is what I meant with the point. Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 23:33 WaveofShadow wrote:
There have been very few votes actually placed so far this game, and a minute amount of suspicion on very few targets so it seems to me to be advantageous for scum to simply be satisfied with the status quo thus far and not move suspicion off of the targets who are already under question somewhat, both of whom I believe to be town presently.
Random thought/stream-of-consciousness (since I was reading hzflank's setup analysis which I liked): Would it ever be worth it to simply claim blue roles during the day? Yes we will lose someone immediately I suppose but is that an acceptable risk if it means we can track role usage (assuming no mis-elections I suppose)?
It may not be worth it I guess if we fuck up bad and elect multiple scum since they can lie about getting RBed and implicate a towny in a 2scum 1town election scenario---yeah come to think of it I think it all falls apart if we fuck up and elect scum since they can lie about checks as well, and the nature of the checks makes it a hell of a lot easier to lie (regarding something like Blaspheme, for example). At this point in the game, you hadn't really done any pressuring towards players you may have been suspicious of. You tell how the situation at the time is very scum-favoured, but you don't do anything about it. This is not the only time you have pointed out things that should be acted upon but not done anything yourself. (I will admit your play looks a little better now later on, but at the time of this post that was certainly not the case, nor rightly after.) Also while re-reading my case, I found one point which looks much better for you than I presented, I'm fairly sure you meant otherwise and misread it myself. (If anyone wonders, it's this one: ) Show nested quote +It's not going to stop me from performing analysis but I worry a lot because I know my analysis can be wrong, hence me opening it up for others to comment on it and pick apart, like you are right now. I had originally understood this wrong as not providing analysis (since he didn't), and telling why, when in fact he probably meant he is worried about his analysis being wrong, and that's why he wants others opinions on them. This is now a much more positive sentence in my eyes, even though I still do not like why he is worried about being wrong so much. Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game.
You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe? This is where your main point of defending yourself is the amount of filter you have. You don't really provide much reasoning for other defense even after this even though you claim to. You also claim that "your filter and content was never the main defense", when this points out otherwise. Please address these two points in a calm and fair manner. At the moment you are still the person I would like to be lynched the most. Address these points, and I'll leave you some time to share more of your own scumreads, and reasons for why they are scum, as I feel that will tell me more than constantly pointing out the flaws in your play over and over again.
This is the last one.
'Free flaws' don't do shit in my eyes to help push a point against a towny for scum because I POINTED IT OUT. If someone else latches on then it's just sheeping and gives no towny points.
As far as the defending myself based on subjectivity---stream-of-consciousness. Just because I reiterated it doesn't make it the main point in my defense, but from my POV it just seemed (and still seems) so ridiculous that anyone could think I am scum based on everytrhing I have done thus far, either using meta to prove it or simply my actions within the thread. Like you mentioned this should be even more evident right now.
The other thing about me being worried that I'm wrong seems pretty obvious to me. I don't want to give scum a townread based on noobiness, because I have done it before and it fucks me. (I think that was what I was referring to there?) Again it's stuff like this which annoys me because I try to be as open and transparent as possible with everything I say---would it be better for people if I hid stuff like that just so people like you wouldn't pick it out and use it in cases against me? The 'free flaw' thing too. Sure if I think Vanesco is town there may be no reason to point it out, but at least when I do a) scum can't use it, b) it creates discussion and will maybe stimulate a point of thought in somebody else I wouldn't have considered.
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On November 05 2013 13:04 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
So many people wish-washing towards a Sn0 lynch, including myself.
Makes me feel really bad about it because SO many people have mentioned it I'm sure scum are among them.
I think I will NOT be voting Sn0 today.
Ya think? You have said multiple times that you think that I may be scum and you need to look into it. It might be time to stop saying it and actually look into me. It should'nt take long, I have not even posted much. I'll even give you a clue, look at the question that Thrawn asked me in regards to my case on Sn0.
I have looked into it. I can't be sure; I be gettin' da hoodoo vibe from you but maybe it's because I know what you're capable of. As it stands you're not the lynch for today so it shouldn't matter to you right now.
I certainly don't mind your vote on Umasi, though I probably would have liked it better if it had miraculously come BEFORE I mentioned not wanting to lynch Sn0. Not to say that makes you scum, but instead of giving you possible town points, it's null right now because you could have had either motivation for moving.
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On November 05 2013 13:09 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:02 ObviousOne wrote:
gumshoe's points against me
your speedy bemused response to my wos post
not sure which post you're talking about here, i have a lot of posts. I don't see anything responding directly to you so you'll have to link. Speedy/Bemused are likely to come from town or mafia? Town OO has nobody's back to cover / names to remember, everything is organic. I am personally more likely to make off the cuff remarks as town and less likely as scum, you can check my past games which are in my profile if you wish to verify.
the early desire to remain exceedingly neutral that I pointed to a wall of text ago
Exceedingly neutral, I'm guessing you mean the post in the early hours of the game where I said something about letting people warm up to playing the game before going all-out with accusations? I don't see how that's scummy unless you're going to bite me for a wait-and-see attitude a few hours into the game.
the lack of suspicion from everyone despite the fact that your posting has been mediocre
I must be doing SOMETHING right if I'm not under heavy suspicion. The first tenet of being town is to establish innocence. The second tenet of being town is to not get lynched. The third tenet of being town is that once the first two are met, you might find scum. ♥Palmar♥
Why should my style be more suspicious than hiding in the shadows? I am genuinely interested in playing and if you do the meta you can see I'm not bullshitting about being askeered to post as mafia. I mentioned it in the scum QT for Aperture Episode 2, even.
and lastly your dangerously goofy / : in regards to sno he's pretty much a straight up lurker, I rather lunch onegu because if he's scum it basically clears wos and his posting so far has been highly toxic and pretty much useless
If he's just a straight up lurker, it's Day 1 and we have no Vig so on top of my points against Sn0 you are demonstrating that it may be necessary to lynch him to remove all doubt. Yeah, this makes too much sense, I apologize for wasting both our time. No point drumming up a larger waste of time, I see little reason to keep pursuing you as a viable lynch. I still rather lych onegu because if sno is scum his play is just meh, but I can see Onegus style working from a scum perspective. Basicaly I'm going under the basis that scum is competent, Onegus style has a chance to make everyone sorta glaze over him due to his pain, it's also a good excuse for his abscence. There would be no excuse for scum snos style.
Be fair, afaik Onegu has NEVER used his condition as an excuse as to his play. He's a straight up guy.
Ugh gumshoe why would you apologise like that? As town you're not wasting anyone's time if you're trying to get better reads on someone. Glahhhh quick do something positive please so I can shake the horrible vibe you just gave me.
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Alright let's play a game.
It's called, 'What are people's reads on Syl?'
When I get 3-4 answers I will explain my own and why.
Bonus points to hzflank if he is one of them. Umasi too. Also Rayn.
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On November 05 2013 13:17 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright let's play a game.
It's called, 'What are people's reads on Syl?'
When I get 3-4 answers I will explain my own and why.
Bonus points to hzflank if he is one of them. Umasi too. Also Rayn. haha that syl vote for ET is a doozy aint it
That's not how you play, thrawn.
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Alright Umasi you get an A for effort. And I'm not sure if the second part was a slight in Ceph's direction but I liked it nonetheless.
What about Vanesco's treatment of him makes him town? Is this an association read? Because that's a no-no....
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EPT
