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White Flag Mafia - Page 50

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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OdinOfPergo
Profile Joined December 2011
United States840 Posts
November 05 2013 00:48 GMT
#981
I have to go now.
So hopefully that made sense.
Ik weet niet wie ik denk dat ik ben. Ik weet niet wie ik zogenaamd in gesprek met. je niet hier, niemand is. Ik ben hier niet, niets is.
Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
November 05 2013 00:50 GMT
#982
You do whatever you want odin it makes 0 difference.
Moderator
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-05 00:52:12
November 05 2013 00:51 GMT
#983
Vote Count

Asinine (8): Pandain, Bereft, Laughing Jack, Hopeless1der, TehPoofter, JarJarDrinks, Pandain, Grackaroni, Stutters695
TehPoofter (0): Grackaroni, Pandain
Bereft (2): Laughing Jack, Pandain, Grackaroni, Asinine, Mig
Laughing Jack (0): JarJarDrinks
Mig (1): OdinOfPergo

Asinine is set to be lynched. Deadline is in at 01:00 GMT (+00:00).
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
November 05 2013 01:00 GMT
#984
Endgame


[image loading]


"On your marks, get set, go!" said HiroPro.

marvellosity blinked.

"Good race," commented Hiro.

"Wait what, it's finished? Already?!"

Asinine, Mafia Goon, was lynched!
Bereft, Mafia Godfather, surrendered abjectly!

Town wins!

My thanks to HiroPro for being a great host and not actually needing me to do anything, and the players for playing.

ObsQT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/Kh6tkPAXDhC
MafiaQT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/yGyVPwtKkFTw3
Roles/Actions spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlpI5bMSvWCIdE9nRDQ2azF2RVdqZFBqU2tPSGRxbHc#gid=0


A brief analysis/shout-outs

Town
Town lynched mafia day 1, the parity cop checked a mafia night 1, the vigilante shot mafia night 1, town lynched mafia day 2, and the alternative wagon (what there was of it) was mafia. That's about as comprehensive as it gets.

Grackaroni
Great catch on Oats and well pursued, good shot as well because Oats was clearly going to be the hardest mafia to lynch in this game.

Pandain
Pandain's strong arguments at the end of Day 1 helped secure fuba's lynch and take the game away from mafia.

Asinine
For playing the scummiest game I've ever seen by some margin. And not even in a way that was "too scummy to be scum", but in a special way that was so scummy but only in the way a mafia can be. Some feat.

A minor point to think about for town
On day 2 the situation is 9 townies and 2 mafia. If you have a mafia totally cornered (Asinine) then that means the remaining players are 9 town and 1 mafia. Too many of town were worried that it was "too easy" or there was "no resistance". If you've cornered a mafia how exactly is 1 mafia supposed to provide resistance to 9 townies? The only possible chances (still non-existent) are bussing and hoping town wifoms itself, or doing some crazy claim play.

"Mafia don't hard-defend their partners"
This is usually the case. And generally isn't a bad heuristic. But you have to look beyond this, and see *how* it was done. And the way Asinine did it was so terribly, terribly scummy. He ignored all the points in hzflank's favour and glossed over all the points that incriminated fuba. Just reading his posts, it's extremely clear it was not done in any sort of reasonable fashion. So don't be lazy and think "mafia don't hard-defend" - use that as a guideline, but examine the posts in question.

Problems and solutions for mafia
Actually this town was rife for exploiting by a decent mafia team. Many of the town were outright lurkers, and even a moderate amount of posting by most of the mafia team could have established pretty good thread control for mafia. Obviously this never happened. There's no reason that this should have been a town runaway other than mafia not exerting themselves on the thread, at all, even though town gave them a massive opportunity to.

fuba played to his scum-meta precisely, except even lurkier and less involved than normal.
Oats actually got a bit unlucky that Grackaroni got pinned for something and wouldn't let it go - otherwise he didn't do a bad job and probably could have survived long. That's just the way it goes sometimes.

In any case, mafia threw the game away towards the end of Day 1. The situation had basically devolved into this - it was a straight fight between mafia-lurker fuba who showed absolutely no interest in saving himself, and active, involved hzflank who frankly looked just fine (as Pandain did well to point out).

Here mafia played the absolute losing strategy in committing two players (Asinine and Bereft) to saving what was already basically a lost cause (fuba). This was simply a terribly thought out play by Asinine. Bereft didn't actually do anything in the end (which was disastrous for him) because he was on standby to try to save the totally doomed fuba.

One of the absolute most important skills in playing scum is reading the game and predicting how things are going to happen, both in the short term and the long term. This one was an easy prediction. fuba was going down, and in whichever way possible, mafia needed to make good of it.

An example which comes to mind for me because I like to brag because it's easy for me to remember my own games is Hero Mini Mafia (also hosted by Hiro). I was mafia with Adam4167 who was lurking and not doing so good, and about halfway through the day had 1 vote. Palmar came into the thread halfway Day 1 calling Adam mafia. I had a choice - try to save Adam, or bus him and try to make the best out of a bad situation. In the end I chose to bus him, because if I tried to save him, probably he gets lynched anyway and then Palmar basically knows I'm mafia and he's got two for the price of one. Despite a mafia lynch Day 1, we managed to turn the game around in the end.

As it turns out in this game, mafia were in a terrible spot anyway, because the player with the scumread on the most "hidden" player, Oats, was the vigilante; but mafia weren't to know that and should have been looking to cut their losses by cutting fuba adrift by bussing strongly at an appropriate time. The alternative in these situations is creating a case on another player, but to me it seems like this wouldn't have been possible given the way the game was looking, so bussing was best.

That's it from me!
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9857 Posts
November 05 2013 01:00 GMT
#985
Ha!
Mig
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States4714 Posts
November 05 2013 01:01 GMT
#986
ha bereft and asinine mafia. Gg town
Moderator
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9857 Posts
November 05 2013 01:02 GMT
#987
I was actually very close to sending in a Bereft shot as well.
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9857 Posts
November 05 2013 01:03 GMT
#988
Rather than Oats
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
November 05 2013 01:04 GMT
#989
Who is who (smurfs)?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
November 05 2013 01:05 GMT
#990
wow good call on bereft guys. Asinine...wow dude, that must have felt terrible to play for Day 2.
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9857 Posts
November 05 2013 01:05 GMT
#991
I just thought the first 2 pushes (hzflank/JJD) were pretty clear townies by the end of day1. And with the lurkers Odin/poofter correctly going on the mafia wagon it made the game pretty easy.
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
November 05 2013 01:07 GMT
#992
Ah, I was totally off on Bereft.

i kind of feel bad for mafia. Fuba was afk at a crucial time, and Grack made a good shot.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
November 05 2013 01:07 GMT
#993
GG guys, there was no way out of it. Build order loss. Very well played to town. Perfect game.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
November 05 2013 01:07 GMT
#994
I was Asinine.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
November 05 2013 01:08 GMT
#995
There's no such thing as a build order loss. Bad scouting!
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
November 05 2013 01:11 GMT
#996
On November 05 2013 10:08 hzflank wrote:
There's no such thing as a build order loss. Bad scouting!

While I agree to a certain extent, I do not think that fuba was a lost cause to save. In hindsight, yes, my play looks downright awful. However, I actually honestly believed that I could save fuba considering how close the lynch was. Had I saved fuba, I think the game would have gone much differently.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
November 05 2013 01:12 GMT
#997
yes, but you were, and are, wrong about that. simply enough ^^
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9857 Posts
November 05 2013 01:22 GMT
#998
haha ET in the obs QT. <3
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
November 05 2013 01:43 GMT
#999
explains why FT didn't reveal who he was, he constantly does the thing where he repeats that he is town, which he said in persona is what he does as scum to try and get in people's minds that he is town
I come in for the scraps
Grackaroni
Profile Joined July 2011
United States9857 Posts
November 05 2013 01:52 GMT
#1000
You weren't laughing Jack were you Vayne? Who was that guy lol
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