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On October 11 2013 11:01 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 11:00 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2013 10:59 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 11 2013 10:57 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2013 10:52 austinmcc wrote:On October 11 2013 10:49 WaveofShadow wrote:
Austin I have one question for you.
When you were outed as scum in PTP at the end of the game, did you lie about anything regarding yourself and/or when you attempted to get kita lynched?
If so, what did you lie about? (it's been a long time since that game and I was already long dead at that point---don't feel like rereading again but I will if you make me.) Yeah. We both doctored our PMs. Kita doctors his QT to make it look like he was neutral survivor, I doctored geript and myself in QT to make it look like geript told me kita had claimed mafia-aligned 3P. I also edited OUT any mentions of my mind control power, as it was necessary to my winning. But in general, once I accidentally claimed, I was honest and in an odd way scumhunted kita, trying to convince gonzaw/crossfire that kita was the more dangerous anti-town faction. Otherwise, apart from editing out mind control and rewording a couple geript posts, it's all legit. Truth and healthy healthy amounts of paranoia. Dudes who wait til N23 or N27 or whatever to NK the last townie in a 1-1 scenario are not dudes who let their scumbuddies claim scum. Yeah but that's not what I was getting at. Besides, you claimed scum yourself that game. I was essentially just trying to see exactly how tryhard you played it towards end and exactly how much pre-planning and lying there was involved because I never understood exactly what happened at the end of that game. It turns out quite a lot. It's a shame because all your answer did was show me that no matter how towny you look here, it don't mean shit.  WHICH LOOKS TOWNIE IN CONTEXT!!! WHICH DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER!!WHY CAN'T WE CLEAR YOU AUSTIN?!?! WHHHHYYY??!?!? Lol I thought that too. Essentially Austin has backed himself into a neat little corner where nobody can ever trust anything he does no matter what. I think it's going to be a gamble in the end either way. Right now my odds are still on CC flipping red though---it's probably easier to look into CC to determine which of them is scum than Austin. Yeah, that was going to be my next approach. Wave if you're scum, I can never trust you again. You realize this yes?
What brings on this specific thought right now?
I'm not really sure why you'd inherently be able to trust me in any game anyway---this comment is weird VE.
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Just because you've posted so much man. I went to filter you after that last post and your filter is massive. Like no matter what I say, people who post a lot I tend to think are town. However, people who can post a lot regardless of alignment I tend to start from the viewpoint that they're scum. Call it a conscious effort to overcome my bias. I'll automatically distrust you in future games if it turns out that you're scum in this game. Sorry bra.
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On October 11 2013 12:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
Just because you've posted so much man. I went to filter you after that last post and your filter is massive. Like no matter what I say, people who post a lot I tend to think are town. However, people who can post a lot regardless of alignment I tend to start from the viewpoint that they're scum. Call it a conscious effort to overcome my bias. I'll automatically distrust you in future games if it turns out that you're scum in this game. Sorry bra.
Oh I get it, that's fine.
I mean, especially since I have specifically mentioned my filter size is way too ridiculous to be scum. But what this essentially means is next time I roll scum I may have to post similarly to this because my only other scumgame my posting level was nowhere near my usual. Or I have to start posting way less in other towngames too. (I should probably go for the second option. I think my posting is so insane this game because I'm actively REALLY trying to win as town and eventually realized we had a really good shot at winning, early demoralization be damned.)
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But again, I'm not so sure what would make me more trustworthy in one game as compared to another---I would think just like any game, you'd only trust me if you had good reason to think I'm town. Hence why I find the comment odd. Nobody trusts anyone---it's fucking mafia.
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Cheese is someone I've had doubts about all game, but his thinking has mostly aligned with mine so I've just kinda let him go.
I'm home now, so I'm going to filter Cheese and see what's up.
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Right after this game of LoL
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I filtered Cheese and I'm no closer to the truth. I will say that Austin is right - Cheese never mentions s0L at all until right before the cop shenannies, and at that point he was like super sure dude was scum. Can't say that I agree with his methodology at arriving at that read, but there you have it.
Errmmmm...I think that it was weird that Cheese was all up in s0L's grill about him being scum before the claim, only to be "paranoid about lynching incorrectly" and joining austin in the sentiment of lynching outside the cops. It seems to me that
Having a scumread on someone + That someone claiming scum to him =/= lynch someone else.
I could be unfairly boiling down his intentions, but I just can't understand him having a scumread on s0L, have s0L claim scum to him, and then Cheese considers lynching ANYONE but s0Lstice.
Ultimately based on his posts I have no fucking idea...but the actions surrounding the cop claims I think makes him look pretty bad.
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Where does Cheese consider lynching anyone but Solstice?
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D4 Cheese looks 10000x better than Austin.
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On October 12 2013 00:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
D4 Cheese looks 10000x better than Austin.
Qualify this statement.
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TLDR'd version is that Cheese never ever even considers any other than Solstice lynch. Austin doesn't want to lynch Solstice, but someone else. Hell, Austin even has his vote on Koshi at some point. The thing is, a person who has had good reads all game and had solstice as scum before D4, can't distinguish a real cop claim from a fake one based on the claims themselves and the information he has had before. But somehow he can be sure that someone else has to be 100% mafia.
What bothers me about Austin are these things:
1) His actions on D4 -- when compared them to what he has said earlier (mainly his stance on Solstice - it does not make sense)
2) His stance on FT, there is literally no way anyone could think he is town -- by Austins methods, CR should have looked way more town than FT
3) His 100% sure scumread on CR
4) His unwillingness to read Pandain -- when Noire ands and 2 people instantly say "Pandain 100% scum" there has to be something in it, there just has to.
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Cheese doesn't join me in wanting to lynch outside the cops. He does consider that solstice might be town, make some comments on that, but I don't interpret his "YOLO" as wanting to join me.
2) His stance on FT, there is literally no way anyone could think he is town -- by Austins methods, CR should have looked way more town than FT OF COURSE there are ways to think someone is town. LOOK AT YOUR POST. I'm scummy because I had a 100% scumread. But I'm also scummy because I thought FT was town, when there's NO WAY that could be the case.
You're arguing FT was 100% scummy AND that I was scummy for finding CR 100% scum.
Do you not see this? The inconsistency between those statements AND the fact that you're arguing that there was no way ANYONE could think a townie was town. You're saying FT played an ENTIRELY scum game, every post, every thought, every read. That's ridiculous.
3) His 100% sure scumread on CR Never participates in the thread. Dumps pre-made posts. Avoids making reads based on posts posts posts, always couches his reads in terms of who looks good/bad from specific actions and branches out from there. Has a nothingread on Palmar, who appears to maybe be scum or maybe be town, but CR wants to save him anyway without actually finding him townie. You can't go FT obv scum, solstice obv scum and koshi obv cop, pandain obv scum, but CR totes not obv scum.
And nope, couldn't distinguish! See my early scumread on Koshi. I was scummy on BOTH of them early on. So yeah, I had a scumread on solstice, who claimed cop, maybe shoulda distrusted more. But I also had a scumread on koshi before his claim. And solstice DOES back up some of his claims with posts. I noted that a lot of his "we checked x" claims were supported by Hiro's posts, not solstice's, but he DID have some support for his actions. Paranoid, I've done dumb stuff before and always assume other people can, etc. etc.
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Just as a side note, I'm going to crack up if cheese is mafia and was trying to signal the other team here:
On October 05 2013 06:24 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
We should totes lynch oats tho. Seeing red flips is so invigorating and DIFFERENT! I love me some random caps, but it's a curious capitalization.
Not gonna lynch or not lynch based on that, but lol if it's a signal. Palmar and Pandain both claim, Cheese signals.
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Yeah i dunno. Maybe CC is scum after all.
Austin had a case on CR. Me and WoS questioned him on N4 and he claimed scum. We didn't even think he is scum at that point rofl (at least i did not -- i just wanted to question him as he was present). Would Austin do that kinda unnecessary bus? With being the only one who really wants to lynch CR.
Like why not just... not bus?
CR had to think he is under some serious pressure. So either Austin made a good bus or CC/CR misread my/WoS read on CR.
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Again, if the team is solstice/CR/austinmcc, I don't bus them. They bus me. CR busses us and lives.
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Austin do you think it's possible for WoS/Vayne to be scum?
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On October 12 2013 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Austin do you think it's possible for WoS/Vayne to be scum? Yes. VA still worries me, but looking over WoS he didn't as much.
The palmar stuff is still butt, otherwise not butt.
I want to look back through him, but current thought process is this:
He looked scummy in particular for post-oats death. And I get paranoid that him going "Yeah, if we have two lynches, I'm perfectly fine lynching oats --> austin" means he's scum and knows that when it's just VA/austinmcc left as lynches, if he leaves you up you probably lynch me (I also assume this is true for him in reverse). But the way in which we've argued has made me townier on him, I think the points he's making are mostly decent and he's not...reaching.
It's the opposite of why I hated the cheese post on oats, where it feels like cheese's thought process if "I want oats to be mafia, so I need to find some stuff that supports that, here is some stuff." The more I fought with VA, and the more I watch his reads develop, they don't appear to be "I need to come to this conclusion, now I will work out the posts to get there."
But if it ain't cheese, it ends up being VA. A quick read of WoS's early days only popped up a single thing that MIGHT be scummy, and that's a reach to say that all his stuff about TL towns being terrible and town sucking and being awful was a way to signal that he's mafia to the other team. Entirely speculative, means very little, and so apart from his Palmar read, he doesn't stand out to me. Given that he'd be on the other team from Palmar, that wonky read matters less than when he could potentially be on Palmar's team.
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There's a lot of hims and parts where I don't specify.
Second sentence concerns WoS. 3rd-5th blurbs concern VA.
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So you do not find these towntells you found from for example FT's posts from Vayne's posts?
I mean, with some people you seem to be working differently than others. FirmTofu had some posts "mafia could not make", same with Pandain. It's not like every single post makes someone mafia. And there are no "townslips". Read Titanic where i couldn't get FirmTofu lynched all game because he townslipped on D1. Funny.. he was mafia.
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On October 12 2013 02:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you do not find these towntells you found from for example FT's posts from Vayne's posts?
I mean, with some people you seem to be working differently than others. FirmTofu had some posts "mafia could not make", same with Pandain. It's not like every single post makes someone mafia. And there are no "townslips". Read Titanic where i couldn't get FirmTofu lynched all game because he townslipped on D1. Funny.. he was mafia. I haven't noticed any while playing through, and almost at this point it doesn't matter.
I DO see very very townie progressions in WoS's filter, and I'm not mafia.
I will read through and let you know once I'm out of this game
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EPT
