EPTThe above posts in response to grack indicate that I don't think grack's reasons for finding Palmar scummy are great reasons to find Palmar scummy. They are not intended to be taken as me saying Palmar super townie, only that I don't think those particular points should be used to push Palmar as scum.
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
The above posts in response to grack indicate that I don't think grack's reasons for finding Palmar scummy are great reasons to find Palmar scummy. They are not intended to be taken as me saying Palmar super townie, only that I don't think those particular points should be used to push Palmar as scum. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 01 2013 13:12 Grackaroni wrote: I find this post/exchange super townie. Following up, questioning me, and then actually being able to back up your thoughts.Scum Palmar just generally cares less about the game because he most enjoys analyzing. that's about as far as I will meta him. I played one game with him when he was scum and he called me scum from my first sentence and popped in to push me for a couple cycles. Another game where he was smurfing scum where he made this bad constructed post and lurked and got called out as the best lynch by foolishness day1. The game or games that I remember with scumPalmar mainly just involved him calling people scum, then calling marvel scum, and then him and marvel getting into a shitfight. So maybe I've just got a different experience here. I dunno what the symbol for opposite-y is, but looks like the point got across correctly. Meant to indicate that you always want to kill Drazerk, but I never want to kill ShiaoPi. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Instead, I propose we chat about some of the following:
Specifically:
rayn, any thoughts? Palmar, I guess you too. Especially concerning the Pandain bit. | ||
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austinmcc
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austinmcc
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austinmcc
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austinmcc
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His role so much unlike anything that appears in this game that I don't think you can draw any conclusions between there and here. He can't sit back and win by doing nothing as either alignment here, he doesn't resurrect, he doesn't have wave in a mason chat, etc. etc. etc. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 02 2013 02:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am with oats on this in that your explanation doesn't do it for me. I already explained it. Read Oats ffs. People who are top 2 lynch candidates for the day and being presented as such know they're lynch candidates. It IS a fact, regardless of guilt or no. As a curiosity, have you ever been lynched as town? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Happy with Koshi, Solstice, probably CR, possibly Pandain. ##vote: s0Lstice Hiro, could you share some thoughts on people who aren't FT and ShiaoPi? Maybe take a look at rayn/palmar arguing, a peek at CR, and whatchoo thinkin' bout solstice? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 02 2013 03:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's like yes!Now wtf is this... That's like, no... austin? You may find solstice's recent posting townie, but I don't really. I read back into this game, I skipped pages, I can get down with him having missed some stuff. But I'd expect him to share the same guilt that I have over having skipped some stuff, be wanting to make up for that, and be getting into somewhat of a normal groove. Didn't love his posts on return. Still fine with koshi. CR may have been lynchbait in past games, but...that's more a trial by fire thing and I'm not going to buy into "says scummy stuff therefore town." From anyone, really. I waffled over adding Hiro Protagonist to that list, realized all the waffling is because his posts have been somewhat narrow in focus and I'd like to see some/all of those things addressed in order to figure him out. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 02 2013 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: I disagree and...because they're my reads? Yeah but Koshi and CR are like totally town and not in danger of getting lynched today. Why even bring that up? On October 02 2013 03:53 strongandbig wrote: I don't think so and I feel shitty about it. Can discuss postgame.Austin are you really planning on going allin on a last-hour-before-deadline switch to solstice? You're gonna have to persuade me that none of ft, shiaopi, or va are scum, and I'm currently of the opinion that at least one of them and probably two is/are. Like, if you're serious this is gonna take an effort. Or are you just trying to about taking a stance. You've said why you don't think ft is scum but you're gonna need to give us more than "I usually think shiaopi is town" and "no comment on va" before you can just abstain out of this lynch. I've said my piece on FT. ShiaoPi is, again, someone that I just don't like lynching early. I know that's not optimal. I don't read him as scummy as others, some of that is connected to his view over the early koshi/FT bit. If you think FT is townie and koshi is scummy, then ShiaoPi's not liking FT as a lynch candidate and liking koshi as a lynch candidate early look good to you. Beyond that, the VE segue is odd. If ShiaoPi is scum, he's in danger of getting lynched. I don't think he gets points for not voting FT to try and save himself, but look at his choice of targets for alternatives --> VE and cheesecake. He appears to have actively looked at VE, and although it's no secret VE hasn't done much today, the way he goes about NOT attacking VE is odd if he's scum being lynched. He gives a read on a guy, over multiple posts, gives his reasoning for thinking VE scum --> not scum, and it's a weird reason (comparing VE's filter in a medium size normaly game to a large game where VE was a resurrecting linked 3P survivor mason). If he's scum, I would expect that if he doesn't go after FT, he goes after someone else that really seems like a possibility. Not going after VE and then finding VE townie. Him mentioning that reads like a legitimate look at someone from a townie point of view, even if, and ESPECIALLY if, I don't understand why you compare to a 3P survivor game. If ShiaoPi had STARTED responding to pressure on him with something like this: On October 02 2013 00:34 ShiaoPi wrote: Looking at a guy who's been tossed around a little, guy with some suspicion and a vote (i think just 1 vote on VA?), and a guy who replaced in and has been somewhat absent, then I wouldn't feel as townie on ShiaoPi as the "I thought VE was scum but now I think he's town and by the way guys THIS is the read I'm choosing to present as you want to lynch me" leads me to feel.I really don't get what you are having in your mind with the word tunneling. What I did was far from tunneling. also he is not a townread of mine, just waiting to see what he brings to the table next couple of cycles ( if he survives that is) I admit that I am fairly useless currently, but with VE taken off my list for now, the read I wanted to push today is gone. Currently I am looking into Mr.CC, VA, solstice, which takes some time man Scum don't have to do x or y when pressured, but that response does not feel like one from scum. He's not pushing hard to save his hide, he's not lurking hard, and he's almost not even providing an alternative. It's a read on a dude who wasn't getting lynched and who SP isn't TRYING to get lynched. Just a legitimate read, and a townie one at that, based on odd reasoning. Not the scummy kind, more the "I don't understand what you're doing but it seems to make sense to you" sort of odd. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 02 2013 04:00 FirmTofu wrote: They're slightly different. You're town because I didn't think the posts people are jumping on are mafia posts. They are...scummy but not anti-town? Scummy but without agenda? Not following own recommendations and not explaining reads fully are scummy things, or things that aren't HELPFUL to town, but in this case it doesn't feel to me like you're actively trying to harm town/push an agenda. More just you're posting and some of your posts look blech.I would just like to point out that austin used the same logic that ShiaoPi used to conclude I was town. Austin said something along the lines that ShiaoPi was town because he is usually lynchbait. Austin, can you explain why you hold this stance and why you think it is acceptable to play this way? ShiaoPi isn't town cuz he's usually lynchbait. I don't want to lynch him cuz he's usually lynchbait. That's regardless of a read on him, which was what I was telling snb. snb wants to kill Drazerk whether Drazerk is town/scum/3P/hosting. I find myself never wanting to kill ShiaoPi whether he looks townie/scummy/whatever. In this game though, based on his posting today, I actually DO find him townie. Your townread from me is posting related. ShiaoPi being lynchbait isn't a read, it's just me never wanting to lynch him. Different thangs. I think it's plenty acceptable to get a read on you based on your posts. I DON'T think it's optimal to play the way I do concerning ShiaoPi, but tough. Last time people thought ShiaoPi was scummy and I wasn't really sure he WAS scummy and we(town) won anyway, so, at worst, maybe he's scum and gets lynched or whatever. On October 02 2013 04:19 s0Lstice wrote: I haven't been going "woe is me so sry gaiz catching up." Don't expect you to. @austin: tell me how I express guilt, specifically as it retains to an internet forum. you must know as it's important to your read on me. ##vote hiro protagonist But I don't like not having pull in the thread and being able to seriously affect the lynch, and it caused me to post a bunch last night and really try to get moving. I know you dropped in and gave some reads, but I just didn't quite get the same sense off you. | ||
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austinmcc
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On October 02 2013 04:37 FirmTofu wrote: ShiaoPi's D1 comments on you are pure "FT is lynchbait." Not really substantiated in the same way, so can't tell the logic there.Thanks for the clarification, Austin. Do you think that ShiaoPi is using similar logic to categorize me as town or is there some malevolent intention behind ShiaoPi refusing to vote me? I don't really know what he's working off of, tbh, he doesn't detail WHY you're lynchbait, and seems to just stick to that stance throughout, either saying you are or trying to push people off of you purely by trying to present other folks as scum, without really pushing you as a townie person. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
If I need to consolidate, that's a later thing. On October 02 2013 03:53 strongandbig wrote: Looked back at VA. , because I DID give no comment on him.Austin are you really planning on going allin on a last-hour-before-deadline switch to solstice? You're gonna have to persuade me that none of ft, shiaopi, or va are scum, and I'm currently of the opinion that at least one of them and probably two is/are. Like, if you're serious this is gonna take an effort. Or are you just trying to about taking a stance. You've said why you don't think ft is scum but you're gonna need to give us more than "I usually think shiaopi is town" and "no comment on va" before you can just abstain out of this lynch. On September 30 2013 07:37 VayneAuthority wrote: So I have no idea why anyone shot BH or what this means. The only people that trusted him even remotely were pandain, grack, and palmar. Everybody else tried to throw suspicion on him or said he was scummy. He died though so we know it wasn't a cop kill. Sooo wtf is going on here. Palmar/Pandain probably come off looking the worst from this since palmar gave him a town read and visa versa and pandain is trying to lynch FT through his dead body. Grack has some sort of boner for BH where he looks up to him so that is a potential fear kill. No need to reply to this post, I won't read it Disliked this post. I know we tend to undervalue the reads of early dead dudes, but this is too much. He died, therefore these guys look bad and this guy maybe looks bad, based on a single day of work. I don't love looking at it from "who looks bad with BH dead" instead of "what were BH's scum reads", and for someone who's trying to contribute little and observe much, I don't love this as being a jumping-in point? It's not much of a contribution, is highly speculative. His exchange with HP also reads a little bit like butt. Calls HP scummier than before for responding to someone accusing HP of being scum because of only talking about one scumteam. Gotta have "inherent guilt" in order to address the alleged scumslip. However, then he turns straight around and doesn't know how to read it: On September 30 2013 10:21 VayneAuthority wrote: Actually there is a fairly large difference, addressing a good/strong argument is a necessity. defending yourself against a "scumslip" at a time when everybody was just bullshitting is inherent guilt. I don't know what to make of it though since as far as I can tell he is a very passive/apologetic player. On September 30 2013 10:24 VayneAuthority wrote: I'm backtracking though since for him as a player it doesn't necessarily say anything. Which...maybe true, maybe not. But what I actually don't like the most about that exchange is that smack in the middle of those posts, CC posts a big thing on HP - + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2013 10:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'm townreading CR for this post: Chairman Ray has been the victim of D1 mislynches in his first two games. If he's mafia this game, I'd believe that he'd be even more cautious of the noose. I don't know of many players who, on their first scum game, would make a joke like this. This is a joke post that is null if a player like myself posted it, but for a noob like CR I'm leaning townie. Bit worried about HiroProtagonist (consider me the HiroAntagonist LELELEL) Opening post pretty weak. He'd like to hear more from some lurky dudes (duh) and tells people to keep doing things that they are currently doing, but fails to mention a read on any of the 3 bottom guys. He keeps telling people what to do, but fails really to do anything himself. Posts like these are easy to make as mafia. They tell people to go off and post more, give reads, pull their own weight, etc. However, in the entirety of these posts and before HiroProtagonist goes to bed, he has accomplished essentially nothing except extrapolate on his Palmar null read. It looks like he's actively doing things, but doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. He hasn't given reads but tells other people to give reads. The rest of his filter for the day sheeps the Yamato scumread. He literally quoted Pandain's case and said "I think exactly what Pandain thinks here" without any prior indication that he believed Yamato was mafia. By reading HiroProtagonist's filter before this, I would believe that he thinks WoS is mafia because he "called out his bullshit". Not seeing much town from HP. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Note: The Koshi to Yamato switch was awfully weird considering it landed on town. Granted, I liked the target so I can't complain much. Random lynch just seemed so epiccccccc ShaioPi is a fantastic night shot tomorrow. If you're mafia not on ShaioPi's team shoot him plz you gotta kill the other team sometime eh? Or cops gogo. I'm not sure if FT is bad or scum. following his own heuristic he should be lynched. You couldn't give me a klondike bar to read Rayn. Rereading WoS/Palmar/SnB. I'm just going to decide VE is town in my brain and not read into him that much unless he decides to transform into ScumeraEyes. Willing to lynch VA over SP and FT, would still go for other targets more though. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 02 2013 05:18 hiro protagonist wrote: While you do that, cough coughIve only skimed though the last part of thread so far. you havent been on my radar. let me catch up and Ill give my opinion on you. On October 02 2013 03:29 austinmcc wrote: Hiro, could you share some thoughts on people who aren't FT and ShiaoPi? Maybe take a look at rayn/palmar arguing, a peek at CR, and whatchoo thinkin' bout solstice? | ||
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austinmcc
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austinmcc
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On October 02 2013 05:37 WaveofShadow wrote: Can you phrase your request as if it were a request for a hot dog in one of the aforementioned scenarios?Alright ladies and gents, you guys can decide: Which Wave would you like? The one that rages fucking hardcore at you all for specifically doing exactly what I told you not to? Or the one that gives up entirely because time and time again towns just fail over and over and no matter what I say and do? You can have a few hours to mull it over. Be back later. Congrats on the lynch! | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 02 2013 09:13 WaveofShadow wrote: Scum FT knows he'll flip scum and nobody will care WHAT he said. And every time I look back at this thread I realize something else that's just so ridiculous scummy (and/or stupid) about FT's play. Does he really think this is more likely? Does a town FT really think that somebody who pushed him balls-out all day is scum? That statement isn't singling someone out, giving a solid read that he could try to push as him scumhunting, leading to people moving their votes off him. It's a "goddamnit why are they lynching me I can't solve the game right now and I don't want to be lynched so baaaaaaaaad here is what i think" post. As town he wants to drop half-thoughts like that. As scum that post is useless because nobody cares when he flips. For serious, dude is town. | ||
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austinmcc
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On October 02 2013 09:20 WaveofShadow wrote: Cuz I think FT and SP are both town. See mah posts on them, but I was townie on them both.Austin I think the only reason you have poitns with me right now is some comment you made about being willing to lynch VA over SP/FT. Can you explain why? As far as other people who were even in the realm of discussion, because nobody wanted Koshi and there wasn't much ability to even start getting traction on solstice, VA was the guy I liked out of the set. Only got the one post on VA - + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2013 04:51 austinmcc wrote: I don't think either one of you is scum. The votes on you are a little scummier than the votes on ShiaoPi, imo, given that I'm fine with you and snb, scummy on Koshi, and unknown on VE/CC/HP. If I need to consolidate, that's a later thing. Looked back at VA. , because I DID give no comment on him. Disliked this post. I know we tend to undervalue the reads of early dead dudes, but this is too much. He died, therefore these guys look bad and this guy maybe looks bad, based on a single day of work. I don't love looking at it from "who looks bad with BH dead" instead of "what were BH's scum reads", and for someone who's trying to contribute little and observe much, I don't love this as being a jumping-in point? It's not much of a contribution, is highly speculative. His exchange with HP also reads a little bit like butt. Calls HP scummier than before for responding to someone accusing HP of being scum because of only talking about one scumteam. Gotta have "inherent guilt" in order to address the alleged scumslip. However, then he turns straight around and doesn't know how to read it: Which...maybe true, maybe not. But what I actually don't like the most about that exchange is that smack in the middle of those posts, CC posts a big thing on HP - + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2013 10:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'm townreading CR for this post: Chairman Ray has been the victim of D1 mislynches in his first two games. If he's mafia this game, I'd believe that he'd be even more cautious of the noose. I don't know of many players who, on their first scum game, would make a joke like this. This is a joke post that is null if a player like myself posted it, but for a noob like CR I'm leaning townie. Bit worried about HiroProtagonist (consider me the HiroAntagonist LELELEL) Opening post pretty weak. He'd like to hear more from some lurky dudes (duh) and tells people to keep doing things that they are currently doing, but fails to mention a read on any of the 3 bottom guys. He keeps telling people what to do, but fails really to do anything himself. Posts like these are easy to make as mafia. They tell people to go off and post more, give reads, pull their own weight, etc. However, in the entirety of these posts and before HiroProtagonist goes to bed, he has accomplished essentially nothing except extrapolate on his Palmar null read. It looks like he's actively doing things, but doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. He hasn't given reads but tells other people to give reads. The rest of his filter for the day sheeps the Yamato scumread. He literally quoted Pandain's case and said "I think exactly what Pandain thinks here" without any prior indication that he believed Yamato was mafia. By reading HiroProtagonist's filter before this, I would believe that he thinks WoS is mafia because he "called out his bullshit". Not seeing much town from HP. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Note: The Koshi to Yamato switch was awfully weird considering it landed on town. Granted, I liked the target so I can't complain much. Random lynch just seemed so epiccccccc ShaioPi is a fantastic night shot tomorrow. If you're mafia not on ShaioPi's team shoot him plz you gotta kill the other team sometime eh? Or cops gogo. I'm not sure if FT is bad or scum. following his own heuristic he should be lynched. You couldn't give me a klondike bar to read Rayn. Rereading WoS/Palmar/SnB. I'm just going to decide VE is town in my brain and not read into him that much unless he decides to transform into ScumeraEyes. Willing to lynch VA over SP and FT, would still go for other targets more though. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
VE THE THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED BY ARGUING. ARE YOU A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO CHAT WITH AUSTINMCC INSTEAD OF ARGUING? You want to lynch Hiro Protagonist. And Palmar? I will gladly chat about either of those people, and listen, and maybe get down with them lynches, if you will talk to me about solstice and ... pandain. Specifically, I will offer this --> Hiro Pro does not look good, but why do I lynch him NOW instead of trying to get him to comment on like...a bunch of stuff, lynching him if he doesn't or his responses are super scummy? | ||
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funny that they 2 people on TL with that tag play Mafia.
