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Rayn you have literally accused everyone and now are on the two most townie people I can possibly identify.
I have no idea how you can possibly justify reading this filter and saying that Grack is mafia.
Filter
Ignoring HOW wrong he is, that is not how a scum plays unless you are literally better than Ace. He has been contributing actively, putting himself out there, fake claimed for no reason , and then un fake claimed for no reason . That is not a scum play style and he is not scum!
I have defended myself plenty of times before, read my filter(it isn't that long). Yes, I thought OP was town, votes were piling on him too quickly. It just so happened that all votes ended up being town, but it could have more likely been the other way around and there were some scum in there. I justified myself and a lot of you guys even agreed with me, so now saying that I'm scum due to that is really really poor reasoning.
You guys confuse honest incorrect analysis with scum shennanigans.
Oats, look at my analysis of Zealos. Ignoring what I said about Vayne(which turned out to be incorrect, sorry didn't think about that), his play style fits with his mafia play style, doesn't fit with his play style, and he has been lurking. Only townie thing is that he ended up voting OP but its ridiculous to try and claim that scum wouldn't have bussed him after WoS was revealed to be a survivor.
Oh my god you guys need help, I will be debunking Vayne's post now.
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On September 19 2013 00:54 VayneAuthority wrote:Compact read development of why grack and pandain are scum together.Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 08:18 VayneAuthority wrote:
that's actually an interesting quote you just responded to SnB, I missed that.
@grackaroni why specifically were you concerned with what SnB thought of me? Sounds like trying to see if you should jump on the wagon too at some point. Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:28 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 13 2013 04:25 Koshi wrote:
I was suspicious of rayn in Persona. Just not on day 1.
VA is making a dumb argument for lynching me / rayn. VA doesn't do that much. you and grack were the ones to jump on panda's opening post and that's probably my biggest scumtell in this game so far. I don't think you should downplay that my friend. (pandain association, seeing a scum partner's opening post as scummy due to outside knowledge) This is so incredibly meta and relies on the assumption that we are scum. So this is all flawed unless we're scum. Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 03:06 VayneAuthority wrote:
oh and some one mentioned how that random grack/WoS argument was terrible and I agree. No longer have a townread on WoS. all he did was come in and talk about grack only, nothing else. pretty strange imo (We later find out WoS is survivor, so this is why I added this quote. Looks like WoS knows something is up but doesn't give a shit since he's 3P) Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 14:53 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 14 2013 14:47 Grackaroni wrote:
@Vayne: you started out this game with an actual case and I got the impression that you would be doing actual anaylsis, as of late all your main scum reads look extremely outdated. Your only reasoning for me being scum is that I was suspicious of Pandain and besides that you latch onto WoS/Oat's posts. I have been doing so much more in the thread you could analyze.
You have even less reasoning for Koshi being scum, all you have said is that he was suspicious of Pandain. It looks to me that you only wrote your case on Blubbers to jump on some early town cred and after people wrote you off as town you got lazy and stopped bothering to analyze the thread. I don't feel the need to repeat myself, if I see anything worthy of deep analysis then ill post it. You asked for scumreads and I gave an overview of what i've seen from day 1. It's not so much outdated as getting badgered to re-iterate what I have already said. If you actually thought this was all shitty then you would have said something before now I presume. (starts attacking me day 2 when it is town sentiment that im scummy) This kind of argument is also bad. (You guys say I go after easy targets, maybe it's because they're clearly scum? I've put in more logical analysis then you guys, which are based on assumptions and meta.) This isn't even an attack, it's a response as to why he thinks you're scum. Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 15:12 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 14 2013 15:03 Grackaroni wrote:On September 14 2013 14:53 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 14 2013 14:47 Grackaroni wrote:
@Vayne: you started out this game with an actual case and I got the impression that you would be doing actual anaylsis, as of late all your main scum reads look extremely outdated. Your only reasoning for me being scum is that I was suspicious of Pandain and besides that you latch onto WoS/Oat's posts. I have been doing so much more in the thread you could analyze.
You have even less reasoning for Koshi being scum, all you have said is that he was suspicious of Pandain. It looks to me that you only wrote your case on Blubbers to jump on some early town cred and after people wrote you off as town you got lazy and stopped bothering to analyze the thread. I don't feel the need to repeat myself, if I see anything worthy of deep analysis then ill post it. You asked for scumreads and I gave an overview of what i've seen from day 1. It's not so much outdated as getting badgered to re-iterate what I have already said. If you actually thought this was all shitty then you would have said something before now I presume. There's a reason I had asked you the question rather than just looking back at what you already said. I wanted to see if you had anything new to bring to the table after the Blubbdavid lynch. Your reasoning for Koshi being scum is weak. You are telling me there is nobody in this game you are more suspicious of at the moment then Koshi because he was suspicious of Pandain's first post? That's the best scum read you've got at this point in the game? I don't get where the pandain thing is coming from but its more of a meta read, considering he actually hasn't done that much if you read his filter. (Pandain association) The whole fakeclaim thing, can't even quote any of that to summarize how dumb/anti-town it was It is the exact opposite of anti-town. It is so dumb that it is town. The only reasoning was an honest Grack attempt to help the thread, it wasn't out of any possible scum motivation that you can possibly imagine. Name me a single anti-town motivation. That's right, there isn't any. In fact, the fact he then backtracked is so town because it is so fricking weird. Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 02:08 VayneAuthority wrote:
assuming you are town here then im going with koshi/grack/lurker. 3 man scum team makes sense with 2 survivors, and I don't have a scum read on any other contributors in the game.
(I forgot pandain was even in this game at this point, he is the lurker.) Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 02:11 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 17 2013 02:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So, first of all, what do you think of my read on Koshi? And do you still think Grack is scum based on what has happened since the last time you were here? I think it's wrong and this game reminds me a lot more of him in sicilian than persona. You need to go back and read that. He used vivax as a puppet the whole game and got "fake angry" multiple times that game. it's so similar to this. Except in this game, he's using you as his puppet. I have thought grack was scum for a while now, between what he did day 1 with the subtly asking for people's opinions and stuff before the game was really fleshed out. He wanted to know who he could push as mafia. Then you add in all this fake claiming stuff and it's stupid. doesn't help town at all. As I said earlier that fake fight between him and koshi looked extremely fake so that's the nail in the coffin for me. don't know who's the 3rd if it's not you but I assume kush/umasi/zealos or something (ignore staged argument since that's wrong now, but fact stands that their argument shit up the thread) Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 02:12 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 18 2013 02:09 kushm4sta wrote:
basically i already solved the game and no one is listening to me because they are dumb nah kush I agree with you, i already suspected grack and im much more suspicious of pandain now given that OP was scum. If you look back I added to your case given the fact that pandain had a townread on me then as soon as people suspect me as mafia he does a 180 and says " i am suspicious" in his reads post with no reasoning given. (abrupt reads change to agree with town sentiment, association tells galore) Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 06:30 VayneAuthority wrote:
like a 0% chance that I die but in case I do, I cannot stress this enough after that flip
don't forget about koshi/grack/kush/pandain vote shenanigans from day 1.
don't need to be a rocket science just take a quick glance through the voting thread.
koshi is on SnB wagon then switches to blubb when that isn't happening. then later in the game blames me constantly for lynching blubb. hypocritical and terrible logic all balled into one big bag of scum. His incessant push on me as he uses rayn to talk for him leaves me pretty much confirmed on this.
Grack is one of the first people on OP, ok cool. Then when he is about to be lynched, he ninja vote switches. Suspicious much? between that and the other minor points ive been concerned about is enough to have me giving him a good chance to flip red.
Kush's play this game has actually been fine so not too concerned here. But if you look he had his vote on a random meaningless place (gk) to start. Then OP picks up steam and he realizes that his vote is actually needed to stop a scum lynch. consequently switches to blubb. This is pretty suspicious but not sure if it's enough to convict him. Recently, he's been making a shit load of sense
Pandain - this one is the strangest. This guy literally went ape shit about OP being lynched despite having a cool head the whole game. Who hard buddies as scum that badly? that's what is throwing me off. I dont know his play though, and he could have just panicked as scum.
SnB - this guy to a much lesser extent, I don't see that random zealos push being scum motivated. Very similar to pandain, too obvious to be scum or just scum? You guys decide if I die.
Think that's pretty much it. I believe the mason claim because you can't fake that unless both scum and what a incredibly dumb and risky play that would be. Shame that we have a mason though, not a particularly good role. And finally, the most recent argument where grack tries to paint me as scum based on a mod question. LOL! If anyone doesn't think that grack/pandain are the last scum then too bad, guess you can't be convinced.
The rest of your arguments also rely on the assumption we're scum. In fact really all of them do. Not very good reasoning, not good logic, Grack is really town and anyone is wrong to say otherwise.
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On September 19 2013 02:32 Sn0_Man wrote:See rayn? Pandain proves grack town. So we lynch pandain 
You have been tunneled after me since day one, I ignored you since it didn't matter then. Now it does because if we have four different targets scum will never get lynched.
On September 19 2013 00:44 Sn0_Man wrote:
Pandain, zealos IS NOT SCUM. He could very very easily be 3p (I half wanna say jester lol). If you can PROVE that he is the SK (maybe, say, SnB was pushing him or somethign) then we can talk but if you want to lynch him you have to prove him the SK.
Stop saying "this looks like his scum game" because he aint scum.
The point is he's not town. That's the crux of my argument. I don't care if he's SK(in fact it's better), and I disagree with you guys who rely on meta-analysis that it's impossible that he's scum. Read my argument, he doesn't give a shit this game, he gives shits in other games, and shares his shit with the rest of the town.
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On September 19 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:This is it right here. Thats why I think hes scum. Also his randomass unvote of OP on day 1 without saying other than 'this feels bad'
Please reflect on the matter.
Give me an honest justification for that fakeclaim/anti fake claim? Distract the thread? Really he would put that much suspicion on himself to try and shit up the thread?
On September 19 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Pandain, i am pretty sure i asked you about this earlier, but i'll ask you again:
How do you explain Grackaroni's vote switch on D1 based on his reasoning?
Grack thinks Pandain & SnB & OP are scum.
Grack has his vote on OP.
SnB pushes Zealos lynch.
Pandain makes a couple of good posts (according to Grack) and advocates kush lynch
Grack switches to Zealos.
Explain it to me from town pov.
Because he agreed with my logic, which is perfectly sound, that
a) Day one votes are usually guided my lurking mafia
b) votes on OP were strange and unjustified, and also conflicted with people who previously liked OP
That reasoning led me to mistakenly believe that OP is town, but the only reason I was wrong is because it actually happened that the lurking town led the vote, which is almost never the case. It happened that people piled on OP, but that vote honestly at that time was a poor choice and there wasn't enough evidence to really lynch him. Grack ended up believing me, however, on the vote issue.
Townie thinking.
Also ignore that matter, and look at his filter. Recognize townies make mistakes and weird things(for example you have pushed literally everyone in the thread at some time as scum), and instead look if they made honest mistakes. Grack did, he has been pro town otherwise.
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On September 19 2013 02:44 Sn0_Man wrote:
Lynching SK effectively halves the anti-town KP since town is far enough ahead this game (due to 15 player 3 scum setup) that SK will be hitting town as much as possible.
Alternatively, we are at 7-1-2
Lynch Scum, 2NKs on town: 5-1-1 MYLO since a mislynch leads to 2-1-1 town can't win
Lynch SK, Only 1 NK on town: 6-0-2 not mylo since a mislynch leads to 4-0-2.
Objectively better for town to lynch SK over scum. Also was hoping that scum might know who the SK is so we can lynch SK happily in harmony.
The point is that we should, at the core, lynch people who are anti town. There may be signs they are scum, with more information and flips we can narrow others down.
But Zealos is the most likely of flipping either scum or SK, please reflect on his prior games and then come back to me.
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Holy shit you guys needed help.
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On September 19 2013 02:48 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 02:44 Pandain wrote:On September 19 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote: fake claimed for no reason , and then un fake claimed for no reason . This is it right here. Thats why I think hes scum. Also his randomass unvote of OP on day 1 without saying other than 'this feels bad' Please reflect on the matter. Give me an honest justification for that fakeclaim/anti fake claim? Distract the thread? Really he would put that much suspicion on himself to try and shit up the thread? Lol what suspicion did he get put under? Absolutely nothing. The fakeclaim was to out the vet IMO, then he unfakeclaims and apologizes. The thing that makes me think he's town is that in his unfakeclaiming post, he posted that he doesnt want to be thought of confirmed town for the claim. Which is an odd mindset for scum.
He didn't get put any under suspicion because I correctly identified that it is too risky and too bold for a mafia to try and fake claim a vet in order to, as you say, out another vet. A vet is such a small part of the game, only one person versus ~3 other blues and however other many town members. You really think his goal was to out a vet?
What if a vet did claim? Then shit, total suspicion on Grack. We would have had a totally different game, and probably would have lynched Grack.
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On September 19 2013 02:49 Sn0_Man wrote:
Zealos *cannot* be scum lol. If we are 100% that he is antitown then I agree he is the best lynch because that makes him SK.
@Oats how the hell would I know. I've only played with 1 SK before and town got raped because of it (also bastard setup imo but thats neither here nor there). Actually, as far as I'm concerned SKs are practically universally bastard but w/e.
We don't have to be 100%, I at least am far more certain than anyone else he is antitown. There is like a .5% chance that Grack is scum, and a .0005 chance he is SK.
I also disagree that he cannot be scum. Zealos did not vote for OP. BH could have thought he would gain town cred if he last second voted Zealos, which he would've. They could have miscalculated and thought they had to vote Zealos or OP would be lynched.
There are too many variables you leave out and then make assumptions of when in reality it was a last 5 minute vote scram.
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On September 19 2013 02:56 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 02:53 Pandain wrote:On September 19 2013 02:48 Oatsmaster wrote:On September 19 2013 02:44 Pandain wrote:On September 19 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote: fake claimed for no reason , and then un fake claimed for no reason . This is it right here. Thats why I think hes scum. Also his randomass unvote of OP on day 1 without saying other than 'this feels bad' Please reflect on the matter. Give me an honest justification for that fakeclaim/anti fake claim? Distract the thread? Really he would put that much suspicion on himself to try and shit up the thread? Lol what suspicion did he get put under? Absolutely nothing. The fakeclaim was to out the vet IMO, then he unfakeclaims and apologizes. The thing that makes me think he's town is that in his unfakeclaiming post, he posted that he doesnt want to be thought of confirmed town for the claim. Which is an odd mindset for scum. He didn't get put any under suspicion because I correctly identified that it is too risky and too bold for a mafia to try and fake claim a vet in order to, as you say, out another vet. A vet is such a small part of the game, only one person versus ~3 other blues and however other many town members. You really think his goal was to out a vet? What if a vet did claim? Then shit, total suspicion on Grack. We would have had a totally different game, and probably would have lynched Grack. Then Grack apologetically unfakeclaims. You dont see the play here? He knows his plan is to fakeclaim vet, then fakeclaim VT. Low risk IMO and possible we think that hes town for doing some retarded shit.
High risk.
Because you guys would have bandwagoned(although I would have protested again, knowing how idiotic it was) against Grack for a false fake claim which he would have only un-fakeclaimed after being shown wrong. You guys would have thought he was making stuff up and trying to gain blue status.
On September 19 2013 03:00 Sn0_Man wrote:
Aaaaand before WoS flipped survivor zealos was mega-bussing OP N1? yeah no
He never bussed OP Night One, wwhhhhaaatt? Only post was here:
On September 14 2013 07:00 Zealos wrote:
Also, so casual OP switching votes while inactive in thread. Smooth.
This helps indicate the theory he's SK as it seems he's against OP, but again I refrain from such absolutes.
On September 19 2013 03:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 02:58 Pandain wrote:On September 19 2013 02:49 Sn0_Man wrote:
Zealos *cannot* be scum lol. If we are 100% that he is antitown then I agree he is the best lynch because that makes him SK.
@Oats how the hell would I know. I've only played with 1 SK before and town got raped because of it (also bastard setup imo but thats neither here nor there). Actually, as far as I'm concerned SKs are practically universally bastard but w/e. We don't have to be 100%, I at least am far more certain than anyone else he is antitown. There is like a .5% chance that Grack is scum, and a .0005 chance he is SK. I also disagree that he cannot be scum. Zealos did not vote for OP. BH could have thought he would gain town cred if he last second voted Zealos, which he would've. They could have miscalculated and thought they had to vote Zealos or OP would be lynched. There are too many variables you leave out and then make assumptions of when in reality it was a last 5 minute vote scram. Why did Zealos not vote for blubbers then? Do you think scum/SK agree on dying instead of voting for anyone who is not in their team, let it be just for living another phase? Zealos was there. He was in thread. He was about to get lynched. It makes zero sense if he is not town. He is town.
I refrain from such absolutes, and the only thing that you have convinced me of is he is SK rather than scum. Sno are you happy, I mainly agree now, though still don't real out scum.
He is not playing town, how can you accuse everyone EXCEPT Zealos when Zealos is the most ANTI TOWN out of anyone.
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I have to leave for class, I will return.
Points I have made
1. Grack is clearly not scum. Read his filter please. Even if he double fake claimed, his posting still makes him town.
2. Zealos is anti town, probably SK.
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The mere fact your saying why questions highlights the fact most of your arguments rely on assumptions from those whys.
I am searching for anti town people and Zealos is clearly not pro town. Given he is normally pro town I have to assume he is similar to his mafia playstyle. Or now tp play style
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On September 19 2013 04:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So where did everyone go when we started talking about scum instead of SK?
As I said I had class.
If I had to guess, it would be Vayne for scum.
It's a bunch of little things.
+ Show Spoiler +He voted Blub who we now know is town. It's alright, a whole bunch of others did too (and I chose him over BH). This post is suspicious: On September 12 2013 08:32 VayneAuthority wrote:
this time im his town buddy bro
also you were serial killer in that game so you were just leading on anything LOL
@papasmurf it was just that game. he usually just fucks around as town but randomly started writing cases and shit in persona Assumes that kush is town at day one, weird assumption to make. Assumes they're both town? Covering? Slipped knowledge kush is town? A lot of possibilties, but most lead to a scum reason why. On September 14 2013 07:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
im back, catching up now. saw the mislynch though =/ gotta look at the people that followed my wagon with little to no support. He was leading a wagon? Makes it seem like others are at fault and not him. There are more posts like this, it's not certain but its a guess. He also is playing similar to his town game in Titanic. I would say he's playing a good game of mafia, but mafia none the less.
Don't understand why people say my posts make me pro-town and then when it happens I'm wrong(it's ok, it's mafia) people say I'm mafia. I did what I did because it made sense, and I explain it.
I also think Kush is still a good choice, but think Zealos is the best choice.
Sno can you explain why you think I'm scum? All I get from you is that I'm going after the "easiest" lynches.
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On September 19 2013 05:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
The complete lack of scumhunting, the ridiculous vote swaps latelatelate day 1, etc. Built upon an early scumread that I let slide when your posting improved but I'm having a hard time giving up completely. Virtually every reasonable scumteam that I can come up with includes you.
A large part of it also being how you interacted with OP.
I've scum hunted plenty. It's just that I like to analyze rather than post every opinion I have which is likely to change.
That's why I go after my best reads rather than everyone at once, because my reads on other players will change eventually anyway.
I'm trying my best with classes, judge what I have based on the quality of the posts.
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Yeah they didn't make sense and to me proved he was town
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Didn't you agree with my reasoning?
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On September 14 2013 05:32 Sn0_Man wrote:
Dibbers has been hella townie all game.
I agree that the OP wagon looks like the wagon of injustice, only who the fuck is it saving if its scum driving it? That gives me some pause.
Still think blubbers is the lynch.
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So why are you lynching me if I made sense and argued for it? That I happened to be wrong?
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On September 19 2013 05:48 Sn0_Man wrote:
Maybe hard defending scum is a town-tell and nobody let me know?
Maybe I was simply wrong?
Your argument isn't that I made a scum slip. It isn't that I unreasonably defended him. Your argument as to why I should be lynched above others is that I simply happened to be wrong.
You defended and voted to save OP when he was FAR more suspicious, while I correctly realized he was scum.
On September 17 2013 06:46 Sn0_Man wrote:
Mind change #88932
Zealos is scum. Read that filter (LOL) no way hes town. Lynch him first THEN Blazinghand. Watching BH squirm is amazing.
(i voted in other thred for zellos)
Your reasoning is inherently flawed
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More I still don't think you're scum because townies make mistakes
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EPT
