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On August 30 2013 08:31 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 08:29 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa has seemed fine to me, the only thing I noticed so far is that he's seemed somewhat more snippy than usual, which is why I asked him about how he felt about the game. Not entirely sure what I make of it but meh
Bugs me that yamato is suspicious of Hapa for being able to read me better than yamato can. It's just dumb on so many levels Are you even reading my posts?
That's basically half the reason you're suspicious of me no?
You know I've played a ton of games with marv. While I can articulate my methods of reading him in one way or another, the bottom-line is that a majority of me reading marv is completely on gut. There are just certain posts by him that I get strong town/scum vibes from, mostly because we have such a history together.
In this game, there's just something about the way he's responding to the pressure here that makes me feel he's town. So back to the "holier than thou" thing with scum-marv, he tends to put himself above all the arguments, and either use it as an OMGUS or completely dismiss them at hand.
In this game, he's getting emotionally caught up in them, which I consider a town-tell.
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On August 30 2013 08:33 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 08:31 Hapahauli wrote:On August 30 2013 08:25 yamato77 wrote:On August 30 2013 08:24 Hapahauli wrote:
If you're going to make a read on me based off of the first 13 pages of gameplay in a 29 page game, I'm not impressed. If I'm wrong, why are your early posts so trash? Isn't this the 3rd game in a row where you think my early game posts are bad (and scummy) because I tend to force things early on? I make bad cases early on all the time. In fact almost every single one of my town games recently starts with a terribly bad D1 case that draws some flak on me. In a somewhat twisted way, I kind of enjoy the flak though, because it gets me thinking and involved in the game. idk man, this was something special The question is, do I feel like you've improved since the post on deebs? idk, will reread. Your targets of hopeless/syl aren't real encouraging at first look, though, because they are easy to fake-case as either alignment
So what's "special" about this one? Compare it to... say... Catch 22. Or that the 2nd Hydra Mini with the Duke Nukem stuffs.
Anyway regarding Hopeless/Syl, I'm not going to go after more "original" targets if I don't find them scummy. Regardless if you think they're easy to "fake", I'd like to believe I've shown interest in questioning them so far and will continue to do so until I confirm/overturn my reads on them.
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On August 30 2013 08:39 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 08:36 marvellosity wrote:
Maybe I'm not explaining it so well
1) in your original long post you say hapa would best be able to catch me and knows me best
2) hapa gives a tone/attitude read on me
3) you disagree with the read and decide you know better
4) therefore hapa is suspicious, despite 1)
all these things don't go together at all, really. 1) I quote how Hapa has TOLD ME (therefor giving me the knowledge he has) about your meta. 2) I quote Hapa's read 3) I show obvious examples of the very scum attitude-read he posted 4) therefor, Hapa isn't actually considering your real alignment
I think you're mistaking my not being able to articulate my methodology of reading Marv as well with me not caring about his alignment. That being said, read this and tell me what you think:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387¤tpage=30#589
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Also Yamato, I think you're mistaking how strong my town-read on marv actually is. I'm leaning town on the guy, and don't think he's 100% uber-super townie.
My approach to marv in all games is generally not to take a serious look at the guy on Day 1. He's not a guy that you're going to catch as mafia (or a guy that I would risk lynching) on Day 1. Generally if I get a town-feel from him, I'll accept it and move on to other targets. If something really striking happens, Day 2 and beyond are the days where I consider him.
That has been consistent throughout all the games I've ever played with him.
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On August 30 2013 08:44 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 08:35 Hapahauli wrote:On August 30 2013 08:31 yamato77 wrote:On August 30 2013 08:29 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa has seemed fine to me, the only thing I noticed so far is that he's seemed somewhat more snippy than usual, which is why I asked him about how he felt about the game. Not entirely sure what I make of it but meh
Bugs me that yamato is suspicious of Hapa for being able to read me better than yamato can. It's just dumb on so many levels Are you even reading my posts? That's basically half the reason you're suspicious of me no? You know I've played a ton of games with marv. While I can articulate my methods of reading him in one way or another, the bottom-line is that a majority of me reading marv is completely on gut. There are just certain posts by him that I get strong town/scum vibes from, mostly because we have such a history together. In this game, there's just something about the way he's responding to the pressure here that makes me feel he's town. So back to the "holier than thou" thing with scum-marv, he tends to put himself above all the arguments, and either use it as an OMGUS or completely dismiss them at hand. In this game, he's getting emotionally caught up in them, which I consider a town-tell. Is he really, though? It seems like he wants to use these back-and-forth exchanges more as an avenue to shit on my play and my reads than to actually get anything useful out of it. If I am right about him, there is plenty of motivation for scum-Marv to want to discredit me when town-Marv is usually more cooperative even when I am tunneling him, in the recent past. Why the change this game in his response, and his overall attitude as compared to his recent play?
TBH, this sounds like Persona 2 all over again.
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On August 30 2013 08:46 yamato77 wrote:
Well, this has gone nowhere fast
You should generally expect some level of hostility when your 3 main suspicions are the 3 potential town-leaders other than yourself.
But we can't get anywhere if you don't reply to my defenses. Forget about marv for a second - let's get our conversation over and done with and then we can move into other things.
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Stop arguing with marv and argue with me for a second.
What parts of my explanations are inadequate?
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Actually fuck it don't argue with me either.
You need to catch up on this game, because we're still talking about things that happened almost 20 pages ago.
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@ Sciberia
Can you post the thoughts you had on Hopeless? It looks like he kinda vanished on us, so it'll give us something to discuss in civility in the meantime.
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On August 30 2013 08:59 marvellosity wrote:
fuck it, until you can explain to me why you're lying to make me look bad,
##vote: yamato
NO.
STAHP.
NO.
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On August 30 2013 08:59 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 08:58 marvellosity wrote:On August 30 2013 08:44 yamato77 wrote:On August 30 2013 08:35 Hapahauli wrote:On August 30 2013 08:31 yamato77 wrote:On August 30 2013 08:29 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa has seemed fine to me, the only thing I noticed so far is that he's seemed somewhat more snippy than usual, which is why I asked him about how he felt about the game. Not entirely sure what I make of it but meh
Bugs me that yamato is suspicious of Hapa for being able to read me better than yamato can. It's just dumb on so many levels Are you even reading my posts? That's basically half the reason you're suspicious of me no? You know I've played a ton of games with marv. While I can articulate my methods of reading him in one way or another, the bottom-line is that a majority of me reading marv is completely on gut. There are just certain posts by him that I get strong town/scum vibes from, mostly because we have such a history together. In this game, there's just something about the way he's responding to the pressure here that makes me feel he's town. So back to the "holier than thou" thing with scum-marv, he tends to put himself above all the arguments, and either use it as an OMGUS or completely dismiss them at hand. In this game, he's getting emotionally caught up in them, which I consider a town-tell. Is he really, though? It seems like he wants to use these back-and-forth exchanges more as an avenue to shit on my play and my reads than to actually get anything useful out of it. If I am right about him, there is plenty of motivation for scum-Marv to want to discredit me when town-Marv is usually more cooperative even when I am tunneling him, in the recent past. Why the change this game in his response, and his overall attitude as compared to his recent play? As yamato is ignoring me, I'm just gonna point this out to the thread. Unless my memory serves me incorrectly, the last time yamato tunnelled me was 6 months ago in an abortion of a game. So he's painting my reactions as scummy when compared to basically totally fictitious recent games that don't exist. me no gusta. You mean I really haven't called you scum since then? idk, seems off. I used to do it every game
Marv is cooperative as town getting tunneled?
wat
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To me it's pretty clear that both of you are town and are letting your balls get the best of your head.
Stop tunneling and work together.
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On August 30 2013 09:07 yamato77 wrote:
okay you guys are town I'll fuck off and you can solve the game for me.
deal?
If I get shot tonight, this town goes to hell unless you put some effort into this.
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I will not be here to calm you all down the next time you decide to spazz tunnel each other >>
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On August 30 2013 09:09 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 09:07 Hapahauli wrote:On August 30 2013 09:07 yamato77 wrote:
okay you guys are town I'll fuck off and you can solve the game for me.
deal? If I get shot tonight, this town goes to hell unless you put some effort into this. if you get shot, I will play you're better at reading these unreadables than me I'll read syl/hopeless and post thoughts just for fun, but honestly who the fuck knows with those 2
Hopeless and Syl are plenty readable. Sure there might not be a load of content now, but there will be. In the mean time, we may as well analyze what we have, and I think there are valid points against both.
Also, can you give me more complete thoughts on Scib? You seem to be hinting suspicion at him in your giant readzzzz post, but I really can't tell how strong you're leaning one way or the other.
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Anyway some more complete thoughts on Syl/Hopeless:
Sylencia:
I've played with him in 2-3 of his town-games, and they're for the most-part the same. He's not too active, but he's often very direct and articulate with his thoughts and suspicions.
Now I haven't played in one of his scum-games, nor has he played one since his 3rd newbie game, so the scum-meta comparison isn't there (or if it is, it isn't reliable). However, this sudden deviation in his play, from articulate and direct to "omagod what is he thinking in his filter" makes me think he's scum having a hard time contributing as opposed to a lost townie.
Hopeless1der:
The one thing that puts me off from outright wanting to vote/lynch him is his early level of aggression so far. It's uncharacteristic of anything I've seen from him as town or scum.
Regardless, his push on TK seems really forced, and he seems to show no interest in following through with questions on TK's allignment.
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@ TK
On August 30 2013 07:50 Tutankoopa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 07:30 Hapahauli wrote:
TK, what do you make of Hopeless's tunnel on you. You've been the victim of it so far, but I'm somewhat surprised you haven't commented on your thoughts of his allignment yet. Have I not said I think it's pretty scummy? If not then... yeah. He's my top suspect but that's qualified by my "investigation" on him not quite being over yet. The only times I've gotten any town vibes from Hopeless were a few bits from his latest posts. If not for those I'd probably be voting for him right now.
Antyhing more specific about these "vibes"?
@ Debears
On August 30 2013 07:54 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 07:41 Hapahauli wrote:On August 30 2013 07:38 debears wrote:On August 30 2013 06:52 Hapahauli wrote:
Hell can anyone comment on my Syl case above? I'm starting to agree with myself more and more :3 Get on the love train Hapa xD I have scum-reads on both Syl and Hopeless at this point. The problem is that they're not talking enough >> You do raise what seem like valid points on Hopeless. I'm sticking with Syl since I've actually read his stuff. The one thing about Onegu is that he makes that summary post for his first post, which is fine. Yet, he doesn't hit the main events. It seems to me like he was nitpicking stuff he could just easily chime in about without further exploring. On the other side, his location makes it hard to communicate. And apparently he does this most games. -.- I would think one of Onegu/Syl is scum.
Can you read Hopeless filter and get back to me on that?
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On August 30 2013 09:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Tutankhamon is town?
All i have heard is that he asked me 3 questions and then unvoted me and that makes him seem like a bright guy. I do not see anything in his filter that is even close to scumhunting. I don't see anything in his filter that is even close to giving out a decent scumread. I don't actually see anything in his filter that is giving out decent ANY read.
It's kinda hard for me to take a serious look at the guy given how Hopeless has been pushing him. I'd definitely like to see more content from him, but I haven't seen anything in his filter that would justify a scum-read on him objectively.
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@ Scib
On August 30 2013 09:47 sciberbia wrote:lol so I was feeling all good about myself that you liked my post but then I thought what if hapa is scum and just asked me to write about hopeless so he had an excuse to get the wagon rolling. Surely you wouldn't be that devious, right? Surely...
You give my scum-game a lot of credit that it doesn't deserve =P
@ Syl
On August 30 2013 12:20 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 05:38 debears wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Sylencia
Where you been dude? As big as our spiders and snakes are, Australians do have to sleep too  Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 07:25 Hapahauli wrote:On August 30 2013 07:23 Tutankoopa wrote:On August 30 2013 07:20 Hapahauli wrote:On August 30 2013 07:19 Tutankoopa wrote:On August 30 2013 07:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Tutankoopa wanna lynch Sylencia? No. I already said earlier that his posts seem innocent enough. What posts in particular seem "innocent?" Also, what do you make of the contradiction I pointed out in his filter? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387¤tpage=27#522 Are we attacking people for dropping contradictions? Yeah it's odd, but not much more than that. It's not even the most glaring of contradictions. Contradictions aren't always scummy, but I think this one is. I really can't map out a town thought-process in what he did. It seems like he forgot he defended Sn0, then attacked him instead when pressed for reads. Not really, I was more swayed by further reasoning after reading filters and putting some more serious thought into it. I explained it before, and I'll explain it again: - Scrib asks for opinions on his initial reads - I haven't looked into sn0 that hard, so I take a quick look at his filter. Doesn't look too bad. Say that, move on. Later on, we've got the part where I'm reading other filters. Hopeless mentions sn0 was saying stuff to prove he was "actively reading". He never said sn0 was scum, but I go and check sn0's filter again and actually properly analysing it gave me the feeling of "Hey guys, I've read everything in the past 5 hours, but I've got nothing to say except I'm happy with my vote on scrib. JK, unvote." Pretty sure I've explained this already.
Okay that's reasonable.
@Hapa Would you actually prefer it if I played to my meta rather than trying to be more active? There's something called trying to improve, my day 1s are still horrible than ever but I've actually tried to do something useful for us this game and it's not allowed for meta reasons Updated reads incoming in like 5-6 hours when I get back because catching up took my entire lunch break
If you're being truthful about trying to improve, that's a great thing and I encourage you to do that. That being said, while you are a bit more active than I've previously seen you play, you also aren't very clear about your analysis and reads this game.
For example, in the "contradiction" discussed above, you posted two things that seem disparate/nonsensical together because there was a giant, unexplained (at the time) gap in your thought process and approach to scum-hunting.
Anyway, I really shouldn't lecture - I'm more interested in what reads you come up with.
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EPT
