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On August 30 2013 07:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 07:23 Tutankoopa wrote:On August 30 2013 07:20 Hapahauli wrote:On August 30 2013 07:19 Tutankoopa wrote:On August 30 2013 07:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Tutankoopa wanna lynch Sylencia? No. I already said earlier that his posts seem innocent enough. What posts in particular seem "innocent?" Also, what do you make of the contradiction I pointed out in his filter? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387¤tpage=27#522 Are we attacking people for dropping contradictions? Yeah it's odd, but not much more than that. It's not even the most glaring of contradictions. Contradictions aren't always scummy, but I think this one is. I really can't map out a town thought-process in what he did. It seems like he forgot he defended Sn0, then attacked him instead when pressed for reads.
You're correct that the town thought-process is hard to see there. But it's also hard for me to believe that he read sn0's filter, gave a null read, then five hours later read the same exact filter, forgot he had given a null read, and then gave a town read.
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On August 30 2013 06:24 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On August 30 2013 06:13 Hopeless1der wrote:On August 30 2013 06:11 marvellosity wrote:
Hey all, weird shit going on. A few things before I forget
Hapa - what do you think of debears' comments on the 'scumcity' post from Onegu? Also (and genuine question I'd like answered) how are you feeling in general about this game so far?
rayn, I said to remind me to comment on that post of yours after Tutan came back, so anyways. It was about him mentioning Oats at the start of the post and rescinding it at the end of the post. You seemed to be quite suspicious of that but to me it seems like a natural flow of consciousness. I don't see how that can be seen as anything worse than null, and is probably a towntell.
Hopeless, if you are indeed town then this tunnel is the worst thing in the history of the universe. marv, you are the only one to come remotely close to commenting on my actual reasons for voting TK. Hapa has taken the same reason I call TK scum to call TK town. You essentially agree with Hapa. He is currently trying to round-about his way to explaining that to me, but i simply disagree with you two about the implications of changing your mind so suddenly. Tell me what 'town' TK would/should have done? Or why what he didn't couldn't come from town? Or both indeed :p Town anyone should have followed through with the questions to rayn instead of citing "this is stupid" and jumping ship with their vote in tow. If he'd have allowed for even one more post from rayn before unvoting I probably wouldnt be here, but I interpret his actions as being scared to have his vote parked, lest someone (me...) think he was serious about wanting to lynch rayn. That's a wholly scum motivated thought process based on thread context at the time of his unvote imo.
I don't like this post tbh. When I saw taht response from TK, it seemed to make sense. Raynp has been clogging up the thread, and his early posts were not very good at all.
It's pretty much the same concept as arguing with oats or yamato (or me)
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EBWOP
and then gave a scum read
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On August 30 2013 07:32 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 07:25 Hapahauli wrote:On August 30 2013 07:23 Tutankoopa wrote:On August 30 2013 07:20 Hapahauli wrote:On August 30 2013 07:19 Tutankoopa wrote:On August 30 2013 07:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Tutankoopa wanna lynch Sylencia? No. I already said earlier that his posts seem innocent enough. What posts in particular seem "innocent?" Also, what do you make of the contradiction I pointed out in his filter? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426387¤tpage=27#522 Are we attacking people for dropping contradictions? Yeah it's odd, but not much more than that. It's not even the most glaring of contradictions. Contradictions aren't always scummy, but I think this one is. I really can't map out a town thought-process in what he did. It seems like he forgot he defended Sn0, then attacked him instead when pressed for reads. You're correct that the town thought-process is hard to see there. But it's also hard for me to believe that he read sn0's filter, gave a null read, then five hours later read the same exact filter, forgot he had given a null read, and then gave a town read.
Well at this point, it's much easier for me to accept the scum-explanation than the town-explanation.
That being said, Syl's responses will be much more informative to all of this than any discussion we could have about it amongst ourselves.
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On August 30 2013 06:52 Hapahauli wrote:
Hell can anyone comment on my Syl case above? I'm starting to agree with myself more and more :3
Get on the love train Hapa
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On August 30 2013 07:38 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 06:52 Hapahauli wrote:
Hell can anyone comment on my Syl case above? I'm starting to agree with myself more and more :3 Get on the love train Hapa
xD
I have scum-reads on both Syl and Hopeless at this point. The problem is that they're not talking enough >>
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On August 30 2013 01:31 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 00:40 Sn0_Man wrote:NVM I lied. Syl I need some help reconciling the difference between this post (which was SPOT on by the way, I was impressed with how accurate it was). Bolded for emphasis on the relevant part. On August 29 2013 16:30 Sylencia wrote:On August 29 2013 16:21 sciberbia wrote:
Of course you can ask me who I think is mafia. I'm a little disappointed because there isn't much to go on yet, but my best guesses at mafia would be sn0_man, yourself, and yamato, in that order.
1) sn0_man for being in the thread for hours without doing anything relevant at all. And making some weird comment about being content with his vote on me, but then unvoting me for no reason.
2) Yourself for making some imo poor scumhunting attempts -- see above. Not sure how much of that is due to alchohol and how much due to your alignment though.
3) And yamato for being in the thread but avoiding engaging in discussion. Also I don't understand why marv is his strongest scumread for being useless when there is a whole handful of players who are as of yet equally useless.
I'd appreciate it if sylencia/tofu/yamato/anyone would chime in with agree/disagree on these three. Sn0, not really - reading his second post makes it look like he skimmed the thread, unvoted and went off to sleep or something. If he was around for hours I would've expected more than 2 posts there.debears - Agreed, mainly so far just due to the fact he's pushing on a lynch based on an exaggerated statement - at least I assume it was exaggerated. Given the rest of the post I'm quoting, maybe it's not but I saw it as being exaggerated. yamato - He's not avoiding discussion (I think), I just think his read on marv is weak. And your later stuff: On August 29 2013 21:44 Sylencia wrote:
That said, Sn0 is on the list for the same reason as FT. They both read, then both post crap a few hours later with the implication that they've read everything and then leave.
In Sn0's case he says he finds himself satisfied with his vote, meaning he found something scummy with scrib, but then unvotes saying it was utter bs and leaves. I'm not so much a fan of this 180 since you had me pegged in the first one. Hopeless's filter does NOT reveal anything that would change that read I don't think. First time was a quick filter dive to see what scribs was going on about - I took what was said at a very basic level and gave a gut reading on it. Second time round, I'm reading filters more in depth, I'm actually looking at the context around posts, and I found it to be worse this time (in addition, while you mention hopeless's posts give no alignment indication which is why I went to yours after I read his, I'm pretty sure active lurking is what scum is after). Anyways, sleep time hopefully you guys don't spam this to 40 pages 
Syl's last post was his "answer" when I presented essentially exactly the same concerns. Apparently he's asleep now
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On August 30 2013 07:30 Hapahauli wrote:
TK, what do you make of Hopeless's tunnel on you. You've been the victim of it so far, but I'm somewhat surprised you haven't commented on your thoughts of his allignment yet.
Have I not said I think it's pretty scummy? If not then... yeah. He's my top suspect but that's qualified by my "investigation" on him not quite being over yet. The only times I've gotten any town vibes from Hopeless were a few bits from his latest posts. If not for those I'd probably be voting for him right now.
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On August 30 2013 07:41 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 07:38 debears wrote:On August 30 2013 06:52 Hapahauli wrote:
Hell can anyone comment on my Syl case above? I'm starting to agree with myself more and more :3 Get on the love train Hapa xD I have scum-reads on both Syl and Hopeless at this point. The problem is that they're not talking enough >>
You do raise what seem like valid points on Hopeless. I'm sticking with Syl since I've actually read his stuff.
The one thing about Onegu is that he makes that summary post for his first post, which is fine. Yet, he doesn't hit the main events. It seems to me like he was nitpicking stuff he could just easily chime in about without further exploring. On the other side, his location makes it hard to communicate. And apparently he does this most games. -.-
I would think one of Onegu/Syl is scum.
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Onegu plays way WAY, LIKE WAYYY better as scum than he does as town.
Am i the only one in this game that thinks Hopeless is town?
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11589 Posts
Giant post inc
RE: Marvellosity/Hapahauli
On August 30 2013 06:37 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 06:33 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Marv
Can you comment on this Hopeless thing?
Also, comments on my Syl/Onegu/Yamato thoughts from above would be appreciated. yamato we'll see, his big post on you/me was full of logic fail (hapa can read marv, hapa is reading marv differently than me, hapa is suspicious), but in a way it's egotistical enough to come from town. if he doesn't do much else he's gonna look worse super fast.
On August 29 2013 19:24 Hapahauli wrote:Why would I want to do that? I'm actually leaning town on marv because he seems legitimately impatient/offended at the people attacking him. And not in a scum-marv "holier than thou" way.
This post is Hapa's read on Marv. It's also entirely truthful in Hapa's assessment of scum Marv's play. We've talked about this before on skype many times, and he's said that this is how he "catches" scum Marv. What I disagree with is his conclusion, that this game is somehow NOT indicative of this scum-Marv attitude.
On August 29 2013 18:44 marvellosity wrote:
Back to marv calling yamato out for being bad who is simultaneously telling town they don't know how to play day 1 (you don't catch me doing this)
Not holier-than-thou, eh? I beg to differ. Like I said, Hapa is either not reading closely enough (never seen town Hapa do this) or has already decided Marv's alignment (town Hapa wouldn't do this either). My post wasn't "fail-logic". I know what I'm talking about.
As a follow up to this read, Hapa posts this:
On August 30 2013 04:58 Hapahauli wrote:@ YamatoShow nested quote +First of all, the way Marv entered the thread earlier today acting superior is a "holier than thou" attitude that I would not expect from town Marv towards two players he has played with so much in the past (Oats and myself). Mind you, his interactions with us basically served no purpose other than to establish his early activity, discredit my early vote, and to shit up the thread with Oats. He doesn't think either of us are mafia. Plenty of mafia motivation in his actions there. Since then, of course, he's been pro-town, but I know he's more than capable of that for at least a few hours.
What is even more perplexing to me is that Hapa, when questioned about the alignment of Marv, specifically said that this did not look like a "holier-than-thou" scum-Marv. If Hapa was town and Marv scum, he may be the only one well-versed enough in the wiles of mafia Marvellosity to truly push his lynch, but this shows that he's either not reading Marv very closely or has pre-decided what he thinks of Marv with some information from out of the thread. Either way, this is what a mafia Hapa would be like regarding Marv as either alignment. I may yet be wrong and this could be attributable to Hapa being up late and tired from all the awesome DotA we played, but it's something to note. 1Marv sounds very bitchy to me. In fact, it sounds as if his emotions are a bit out of control when responding to things. 2When marv is scum, he says things that people want to hear, and doesn't antagonize the vocal town population. It sounds like you two got into a fight, and your ego's are preventing both of you from backing down from each other.
1 Bitchy isn't somewhat of a holier-than-thou way of acting? If all you do is complain about the play of others, doesn't that imply that you put yourself on a pedestal above them?
2 Doesn't this sort of contradict your earlier assessment of his scum play? And it doesn't seem like he's agreeing, for the most part, with the most vocal/influential players in the game (yourself, rayn to an extent)? Notably, he's largely avoided interacting with me about my reads. He didn't even respond to my post until you asked him to. Doesn't that seem a bit off?
Also, on the topic of debears, you said this:
Show nested quote +Aside from those interactions, I've yet to be particularly impressed by the scumhunting efforts of either player, but it is still in the first half of D1 and there is time yet to do better. Hapa going after debears was not what I usually see out of him as town.
If anyone wants to talk about the alignment of these two, feel free to respond. I will be on thread later. Really? I haven't gone after someone early on in the other 70 games I've played with you?
It's not so much that you're going after someone (in fact I expect you to do that), it's that you picked someone already under some pressure (debears) and the post you made about him was... lackluster. For reference:
On August 29 2013 19:09 Hapahauli wrote:@ Marv, Yamato, Oats, and RaynPlay nice. Between the four of you, there is enormous thread-shitting potential, and how town does in this game is going to be determined by how well everyone can get along together. If you are town, stop with the antagonism. Going around and burning every bridge you can in this game is not how Day 1 is played.
##Vote DebearsOf all the people in the thread so far, Debears' push on Sciberia bothers me the most. I really don't understand the suspicions on scib all that much, and he's firmly null in my mind. Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 13:19 debears wrote:
#vote scibs
his game reminds me of his scum game.
I see a divide btw him and rayn. I definitely dony see both as scum.
this smurf tonka stuff seems to be overreaction, but ill let if go yo see who it truly be. Ill look over scribs posts better later tonight when not drunk
<3 hopeless The bolded is completely random and unsubstantiated. Reminds me of his scum-game is such a cop-out read, much less when it's unexplained to everyone else in the thread. Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 13:26 debears wrote:
Also, a 95% town read is full retard early d1 is full retard as town. As scum, its dumb but it has motivations (avoid early conflict, make friend of someone who apparently is consider3d bad town).
Vote scribs guise So according to this, debears doesn't care whether Scib is dumb town or scum. He mentions both, then uses it as a justification to vote. That's pretty darrrrrn scummy.
This post is bad OVERALL, not just in its suspicion of debears. I've already commented on that. But specifically, why are debears' suspicions of Scib so hard to understand if you only have him as null?
And did you read his scum game YANMM (that debears was in)? He started out in a similar fashion to this game with policy talk and a general "pro-town" style. It's not unsubstantiated if you know the context. But you didn't bother to ask, did you?
Plus, when the fuck do you say "darrrrrrn scummy" when talking about mafia? Why is debears voting for Scib somehow scummy when deebs is plainly stating the scum motivations he sees?
Post reeks of bullshit, Hapahauli. Notably, it's also your first post of the game, and I KNOW you have a hard time getting going as scum. That's why I was suspicious of you in the first place, and your Marv read is just another red flag.
RE: Debears
Deebs is someone who played when I started. Like I said, he also played in YANMM as SK with scib, so I don't see anything wrong with how he approached sciberbia in the early game. It's something I noticed as well, but didn't put as much stock into. Debears is notorious for tunneling early D1 and getting reads off that, so I'm totally fine with his play thus far in the game and wouldn't worry about him unless he becomes far less active.
RE: Scib
On August 29 2013 08:21 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 08:11 Sn0_Man wrote:
So, idle speculation here: We have heathen mongrels and Unfaithful Worms mentioned in the daypost. 2 scum teams? I doubt it. - It just looks like colorful flavor to me.
- The way the OP is written also suggests to me that there is only one scumteam.
- Two scum-teams in addition to third parties (?) seems an awful lot for a 13 player game.
I do feel there is most likely at least one third party, due to this line from the OP Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 06:29 Dandel Ion wrote:
Third parties have their own victory conditions.
In YANMM he made a setup-focused post like this one as his first post and it rang some alarms but I, in my noob days, ignored it because of how bad people generally were in my NMM games. To see it again this game is somewhat disturbing, but like I said, it's not damning.
On August 29 2013 11:39 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 11:35 yamato77 wrote:
##unvote
##Vote Marvellosity
Seems like a warm place for my vote. If I were to offer you 1 million dollars if you could correctly identify 1 scum, who would your guess be and why?
On August 29 2013 16:21 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 13:30 debears wrote:On August 29 2013 11:39 sciberbia wrote:On August 29 2013 11:35 yamato77 wrote:
##unvote
##Vote Marvellosity
Seems like a warm place for my vote. If I were to offer you 1 million dollars if you could correctly identify 1 scum, who would your guess be and why? Could I not say the same to you? 3) And yamato for being in the thread but avoiding engaging in discussion. Also I don't understand why marv is his strongest scumread for being useless when there is a whole handful of players who are as of yet equally useless. I'd appreciate it if sylencia/tofu/yamato/anyone would chime in with agree/disagree on these three.
These consecutive posts feel weird. I did indeed respond to him, he just either didn't get the hint (I was suspicious of Marv) or was downright ignoring my posts and threw shit at me for nothing. I even explained my read on Marv at some point, as he noted in this post, yet he never attempted to disagree with me, he just shat on my read and said I wasn't "engaging in the discussion" (read: contributing to the spam-fest). No really that important either, just plain odd.
Other than that, most of his filter is arguing with Rayn/Debears which is not what I'd expect from a scum scib that I remember to have been rather quiet. He's also obviously affected emotionally by the posts of others at times and seems interested in actually finding mafia. He posts some weird things, but I generally don't like to get caught up in semantics with people who play this game that I don't know that well.
If there's anyone else worth talking about, ask. I'll broaden my horizons because Hapa/Marv (even if I am right) can't be the only scum.
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Way to like completely ignore 90% of my filter Yamato.
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If you're going to make a read on me based off of the first 13 pages of gameplay in a 29 page game, I'm not impressed.
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11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Way to like completely ignore 90% of my filter Yamato.
The rest of your filter is not as interesting or alignment-indicative.
I could talk about how you thinking I'm scum is BS, but this isn't an OMGUS case here.
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yamato, i think you have a point in your Hapahauli read. He feels like he he has not read the thread closely when he is posting as his posts lack something.. I don't really know what, but something.. Deeper insight maybe.
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11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:24 Hapahauli wrote:
If you're going to make a read on me based off of the first 13 pages of gameplay in a 29 page game, I'm not impressed.
If I'm wrong, why are your early posts so trash?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
why is yamato pretending i only bitch as mafia or something? it's a total mystery to me.
I didn't respond to your post, yamato, because everyone else had already told you it was shit and I didn't feel like it needed adding to at the time.
What are you doing?
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marv do you think Hapa is playing as good as he usually is as town?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Hapa has seemed fine to me, the only thing I noticed so far is that he's seemed somewhat more snippy than usual, which is why I asked him about how he felt about the game. Not entirely sure what I make of it but meh
Bugs me that yamato is suspicious of Hapa for being able to read me better than yamato can. It's just dumb on so many levels
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11589 Posts
On August 30 2013 08:26 marvellosity wrote:
why is yamato pretending i only bitch as mafia or something? it's a total mystery to me.
I didn't respond to your post, yamato, because everyone else had already told you it was shit and I didn't feel like it needed adding to at the time.
What are you doing?
I'm more confident in my Hapa read unless you didn't notice.
I'm not "pretending" about anything. I know you bitch as town. Usually you aren't that way toward me when you're town (at least in the latest few games), however, and I took note of it this game.
You can respond to what I've said if you think it's shit. Others actually agree with me.
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EPT
