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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
 I wont be able to be very active on mondays, but shouldn't be more then 16 hours without being able to check/post, which seems like it leaves plenty of wriggle room with this time control. Let me know if I do anything wrong. /in Any idea when the game might start? edit: occidentally posted before I was done, I know not to edit after game starts though :p | ||
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killerdog
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On September 02 2013 09:14 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Hello townies! As coach, I will help with the 3 things Mocsta will not help with. Just a few conditions: 1. I'm not under oath to tell the truth 2. I'm a career lurker and will most likely get you lynched 3. Go home and macro, real men do DT drops anyway. I'm sold | ||
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killerdog
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About the MI6 veteran class, how do the two lives work. If mafia/vigi shoot him at night does he/the shooter/everyone get notified that he's lost a life? And is there any way to tell (both as the vet and as the shooter) whether the target survived because he was vet or because a medic saved him. | ||
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killerdog
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killerdog
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Not much seems to have happened so far, other then the prolonged discussion about whether to lynch or not, but heres what I've got so far. First note, Umasi and holyflare seem to me to be the two players steering the conversation, they're the people who bring up new topics, or actively disagree with/try to change the public consensus on something. Also noted that they both mentioned having played with each other, infi and lonemeow, so they're definitely not first time players, and that's probably why they're being so much less timid then everyone else. Also infi didn't mention either of them or lonemeow in his one post, but this might just be because he seemed like he was just saying hi before he went to bed (from his one post, which didn't reference the current conversation at all). Several people have only made one or two posts, with very little content. Velocity, who several people seem to have jumped on already, as blurry said, On September 04 2013 11:09 Blurry wrote: Strongest scum read: Lord Velocity, hes just following along with Umasi's ideas, not really providing any of his own stuff. Heavenz made one post, which didn't say anything at all. I'm going to overlook that as him just being on the way to bed/about to go somewhere, however it's a bad first impression and he'll have to prove his worth actively when he gets back. pharcyd3, who noone seems to have mentioned (at least before i started writing this essay :p) has only made a single post, and it was one sentence openly attacking heavenz. While having a useless first post can be excused as just dipping your toes in the water or something, he openly threw doubt on someone, said absolutely nothing else, then vanished. Just based off this he'd probably be my scum read. It feels like two philosophies are clashing between Umasi and Holyflare, both have been incredibly vocal and assertive in terms of controlling the discussion, and haven't been at all afraid to take a stand. A lot of the (non lynch/sleep) discourse seems to have been basically those responding to each other and other people just agreeing with one or the other. Personally I think given how there are many people who have said literally nothing of value so far, there hasn't been any reason for either Umasi or Holyflare to be this vocal/sure of themselves should they be scum, and because of how easy it could have been for them to calmly take the backseat and let people waste time, I wouldn't (currently) feel comfortable voting for either. If nothing else, I think a a vocal mafia is much better to keep until day 2 (and lynch him then) then a quiet townie who will stay quiet, because it gives a shitload of information. Although that doesn't mean I don't want Holyflare to clarify his position. He got a bit confrontational after (i think blurry) mentioned everyone just giving scum/town reads. My current read is Holyflare and Umasi are both town, but both seem to have (subconsciously or not) tried to take on the "leadership" role of the townies, and seem to be clashing. (note i've been writing this for a while now and more stuff might have been said since i started. Umasi has been the most consistent though, starting off by discouraging people making "i am new" posts to avoid mislynches, and has been consistent in starting conversations which would force mafia to say things which might later come back to haunt them. It's 6 am so I'm probably gonna go to sleep now, looking forward to seeing how the thread develops overnight, and hopefully my grammar/spelling will be better tomorrow and i wont ramble as much :p | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
While loaded questions are fine, I think there's a difference between being articulate, and creative writing. Going overboard with figures of speech/ultimatums/hyperbole are just ways to make posts seem to have more content then they do, and while all native English speakers (including myself) naturally use them a lot, if someone can't go a sentence or two without being overly dramatic, that would read really scummy to me because it makes it feel like they're trying to convince people based on their phrasing rather then the actual content of the posts. Fuck, forgot the second thing while typing the first, but it will probably come to me. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
While holy was posting most at the time, so it's not that odd that blurry has mainly been talking to him, it feels like anything holyflare posts, blurry disagreed with, and it was blurry who started the talk about saying your town/scum reads, which holy then refused to do. | ||
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killerdog
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killerdog
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Having the two most vocal people crash into each other immediately just means that the other 10 players can get away with not saying anything SUPER easily, and the aim day 1 is to get as much information on as many people as possible. It's been noted that Umasi has been tunelling hard on Holyflare, and it's been noted that Holyflare has mentioned several other topics of discussion which have been brought up in the meantime. I doubt Holyflare is going to suddenly crack at this point, and I doubt anything Holyflare says will fully satisfy Umasi. By all means try and settle this if you can, but I feel it would be much more pro town to note down that this happened, maybe revisit it at a later date, and focus on getting as many people to talk about as many things as possible. It just feels like all potential discussion topics (including the questioning of velocity) was brought in the last few pages have ended up being ignored because of this really early vote call/interrogation. | ||
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killerdog
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Ok, my post might have been slightly more directed at Umasi then at you, although I did note that you were trying to bring up/participating in other topics (whether that's deflecting or trying to get town back on track I don't know, but it's potentially useful knowledge.) I feel like Umasi had a valid reason for pressuring you, and while it hasn't fully been resolved, (it feels like you're arguing past each other a bit) some things have been said which might be useful later on which otherwise might not have, it just feels like nothing is coming out of it anymore. | ||
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killerdog
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killerdog
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On September 04 2013 14:23 Umasi wrote: ##UNVOTE HOLYFLARE Do you think what I did was bad play? you can go to bed and address this when you wake up/whenever you want, I'm going to do homework. tbth, this entire thing is pro-town since people will be able to talk about it, and it gives me more to go off of concerning you (and the people who comment about it), and possibly you more to go off of (regarding me and the people who comment), assuming you're town. If you're scum w.e. For everyone, just a psa about me I normally keep the person I think is the scummiest as my vote target, but since there are quite a few people I'm leery of, it rests on no one for now. I don't think pressuring him was bad play, and we certainly have a lot of information that we otherwise would not have, it's given a lot of posts from both you and holyflare which might be useful later on, and there is also valuable information in who chimed in, and who avoided/stayed out of the discussion altogether. I agree that holyflare said a few things which could be interpreted as being contradictory, and pressuring people for contradictions is always good, but I just felt you had started "tunnelling" (to use the word loosely) a bit too hard on him given how early in the game it is. The two of you are probably my strongest town reads based off of how independent and active you've both been and both of you have brought up several topics/ideas which I thought were pretty pro town moves. The reason I interjected was because, with you two being the two most active and vocal people so far in terms of steering and provoking discussion, I was hoping to give either of you the chance leave a few questions for/give your reads on the other, quieter, players in the game, to force them to speak up. My fear was if I didn't interject, the two of you would keep arguing (to keep overusing the term) "past" each other without any new information coming up, and then when one of you left the other would go quiet and noone would say anything forcing others to speak up until tomorrow when you get back into the thread. Unfortunately my post seemed to just cause that to happen, so maybe I butted in too early. I agree the pressure was pro town, but I just felt it was dragging on a bit without anything new happening, and it drew attention away from the inactivity/non productive posts of some other players who went relatively unchallenged, and got through yesterday without actually having to defend themselves. With 48 hour days, and players being in different timezones, I see each player as having two "windows" of time each game-day where they can be reasonably expected to respond to allegations/questions, and allowing the discussion to become too focussed on one person allows all the other players to get away with doing nothing for one of these "windows." Gonna read through the new posts now and post my thoughts after. | ||
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killerdog
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umasi -He was one of my original town reads, and hasn't been afraid of the limelight/stepping on peoples toes. I really liked his first post in that he pointed out that making "i am new" posts just serves to give people more ammunition to throw suspicion on random people, and potentially saved us from being in a situation where 4-5 people read really scummy just off their first post, which could have derailed town a lot and let mafia with decent first posts hide easily.) He was vocal about wanting to move on from the lynch/nolynch debate (which seems fair) and he put the original pressure on velocity. But then decided to pounce on holyflare. Whether that was a good decision or not I don't know but he comitted to it pretty hard, other then one post at velocity, he's focussed 100% on holyflare from that point on. He also poked chairman ray for a bit of information earlier on. I still think he's town, but given how willing he was to pressure that hard against holyflare, I would be hesitant to centre any kind of town circle around him. I would much rather have someone more passive/gentle like blurry helping guide the discussion because if we just pressure every mistake too hard, people will get intimidated and afraid of posting, and we risk tunell visioning away from more subtle scummy behaviour. Also worth noting that he and holyflare have played before, where (as far as i can tell) Umasi was scum and Holyflare played a good town town. I don't know if the events of that game have had any effect on the decisions either Umasi or Holyflare have made this game, since they brought it up in their first posts, it might as well be mentioned. infii -Didn't say much of anything yesterday, but thats understandable because timezones. He made a post today basically calling out the people who haven't been posting much, other then that he's one of the first people (other then velocity) to suggest Umasi isn't playing pro town. The only read i've been able to infer (other then the inactives) is that he's a bit suspicious of Umasi/maybe looking to disntance himself from umasi. First he voices a disagreement with Umasi's policy of keeping a vote on his suspect, the says On September 05 2013 00:54 infii wrote: Still too early for conclusions. The only thing I find noteworthy until now is Umasi's kinda-agressiveness and twisting words in others mouths, seems a bit scummy. He hasn't really contributed anything other then that, and it sticks out a bit that pretty much the only thing he's done is knock on other people for not doing enough. on the whole a pretty neutral read so far. heavenz -First post wasn't really anything, I believe he was saying hi before going to bed. His post with his reads is pretty intereseting, and i agree with most of them. I'm interested by the fact he has holyflare on his scum list (although i agree that holy has been being a bit uncooperative) as most people other then umasi seem to have read him as town so far. I've written this before holy's section, so we'll see if i change my mind on holyflare after going through holyflares filter again. Don't have much of a read on him, but he's contributed and seems much townier then some of the people so far. myRzeth -Still hasn't postsed, apparently he's in germany so I would expect him to post, at the latest, this evening. Otherwise he'll need to have a good excuse. Bereft -Not got much on him, he was supportive of blurry's move to just out reads to get things going, and he was also disagreeing with Holyflare when it came to Holyflares decision to withhold his reads. However while Umasi took this as a queue to pounce on holyflare, Bereft seemed pacified by holyflare posting this: On September 04 2013 13:24 Holyflare wrote: I've never said not to talk I just said don't call people scum or announce them as 'reads', do what you just did and it's all good by me. and backed off hard, called for people who haven't psoted yet to post and dissapear. Don't have much of a read on him either way either. Pharcyd3 -By far the most suspicious person so far in my opinion. To reiterate what I said, his one post is just attacking heavenz for his first post, irony of that aside, doing that and then dissapearing is really scummy in my opinion. The reason I'm so suspicious of him is I'm having a hard time visualising a situation where he's town and acts like this. If he's in a hurry and didn't have time to read the thread then randomly throwing accusations at someone without having read the thread yet is either really bad town, or plain scum. If we assume that he wasn't just randomly throwing accusations around without reading the thread fully. If he had time to read the thread, why didn't he have the extra minute or two it would have taken to address any of the topics being discussed, I don't see a townie thinking it's ok to throw suspicions on someone, ignoring the current conversation, then disappear. I also found it interesting that so many people picked up on velocity's post, but so few noticed pharcyd3's. For the record here are the people who posted after pharcyd3's post but didn't mention it until I fingered him in my first post. HolyFlare, Blurry (references velocity), Bereft (references velocity), Umasi (references velocity) Note bereft did say just before i posted On September 04 2013 13:26 Bereft wrote: also infii, killerdog, myrzeth, pharcyd3, where you guys at? so he might have just missed it. HolyFlare -Holyflare seems to be involved in everything, early on he was very much in control of the flow of debate, bringing up sleeping n1, then not being afraid of disagreeing with people. However once Blurry suggested sharing reads he pretty defensive/confrontational. Regardless of his orientation, to me he feels like a rather charismatic player who doesn't want to just scrape by being passive and answering questions, but rather wants to be one fo the people in the driving seat, and that might be why he reacted to blurry taking the initiative like he did. There were three people who stood out to me as pressuring him on his refusal to share reads. -Bereft, who seemed to be satisfied by holyflares response, -Blurry, most of blurry's posts seem to be things holyflare disagreed with, or vice versa -Umasi, who ended up going hard on holyflare. To be honest I'm having a hard time getting any kind of read off of him. He's stated that his style is "asking off the cuff questions about posts" to catch people off guard. Something he's been consistent in doing. He also didn't seem to change his posting style, or go super defensive when umasi voted for him. He's talking alot (most posts of anyone i think) and doing a good job asking questions but the way he reacted to being asked for reads was a bit dereailing and very uncooperative. He hasn't really given any evidence to prove himself town so far. He's talking a ton about the over all "metagame" of mafia, and a lot about mafia tactics in general but basically nothing relevant to this game itself. It takes more then asking other people questions to prove yourself a townie, and refusing to give any analysis on the other players at all, while still expecting people to answer all your questions is asking for a lot. Still very much on the fence about him and I'm starting to regret interrupting Usami when i did. Lord Velocity -Originally I felt people were sort of ganging up on velocity without any real case. He made a first post which didn't say much other then give a "gut feeling" and, true, he was asked for reads by umasi and didn't answer the question before leaving the thread for a while, but considering that pharcyd3 made an at least equally suspicious post 12 minutes later, and that got totally ignored, the number of people putting velocity on their lists seemed a bit high. However after reading his defensive posts, I'm a lot more suspicious of him now. He called scum on Umasi based on On September 04 2013 13:24 Lord Velocity wrote: Strongest Scum read: Umasi due to his fast vote on Holyflare and his super aggressive early play. Which feels a lot like just counter accusations rather then a justified read, just stating what happened rather then saying why you thought the actions were scummy isn't very watertight. This On September 04 2013 23:02 Lord Velocity wrote: I think I shoulndn't be lynched and we should hear from more people about reads on everybody before we misslynch and end up having no reads. school, so I might post from there. Bye/brb Also felt like a bit of an overreaction given the amount of pressure he was under at the time. He might just be a townie who wasn't expecting pressure and overreacted though. Not sure on him, but he's on the scummier end of the spectrum out the the players who have posted more then a paragraph or two. Hopefully he will start volunteering some information himself without any more pressure. Chairman Ray -Hasn't been very active yet, This one post is a huge elephant in the room when it comes to him On September 04 2013 07:53 Chairman Ray wrote: Has everyone got their QT yet? You should have received one by now. The way he phrased it makes it seem unlikely that he's mafia slipping up. As someone else said, he might have been trying to trip up a mafia, or just screwing around, but I would very much like him to go on record saying why he posted this just so it's dealt with and doesn't cause misunderstandings later. Other then that he hasn't said much other encouraging threatening to lynch people which seems logical enough. Not enough content for a read though, hope he posts more tonight. LoneMeow -Hasn't said much content wise, although i do agree with his statement that Umasi/Holyflare argument seems a bit town v town. He seems to have popped in at a time when the thread was relatively inactive, and posed questions to a few people. He hasn't pointed out much which hasn't already been said though. Blurry -As i mentioned in an earlier post, Blurry was disagreeing with holyflare on several points over several different posts. Infact his first 5 posts are all either voicing a differing opinion to holyf, or straight up quoting him and disagreeing. He then brought up the topic of just sharing reads to promote discussion, which holyf refused to do (which then set umasi off.) I don't know if this is one of them trying to distance themselves from the other, or one getting some kind of read off of the other, (or indeed just a side effect of them being two of the more active players during that time period) but as it's pretty much all Blurry has done I feel it's relevant. He's also spared two posts to help explain a few things to velocity, from those two i would say he seems to think velocity is just town who overreacted to a bit of pressure, regardless of why he did it though, I think explaining why he was under suspicion is a pro town move, as mafia would probably want to let him just talk himself into a lynch rather then try and help him. I also liked how he helped move the discussion along on day 1 by calling for reads. One of the townier players imo. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On September 05 2013 03:38 LoneMeow wrote: If he never says anything, that's modkill territory and lynching him is pointless. If he does come up at the last moment just to drop his vote to avoid modkill, he'll die D2. Lynching a zero-post guy is pointless. Much rather lynch someone who's clearly in the game but lurking, because that's where scum is most often found. I agree in that there isn't much point in trying to apply pressure to someone who isn't here. I think everyone is in agreement that unless he has a good excuse/some really good analysis when he does arrive, then he's dead anyway unless he gets modkilled. I'd rather choose someone who hasn't said much *of value* and pressure them a bit. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On September 05 2013 03:57 LoneMeow wrote: The post you quoted is just pure WIFOM either way; town trying to trip scum, or scum trying to look like town trying to trip scum. I'd prefer to just ignore it, for now. I assume WIFOM means useless, but as a general request, can people explain what acronyms mean the first time they use them? Another one was FoL or something, and I don't want to misunderstand anyone just because I misread an acronym. (also mylo/lylo or something.) And i agree that it's a post which we shouldn't focus on, that's why I would like him to just post what he meant by it ASAP, so we can forget about it. It just forces him to put his cards on the table now, while also preventing it from popping up again later and causing trouble. Given that he seems to be here right now, why not get it out of the way rather then leaving it in the corner to fester. Gotta go for a while, but I'll be back in a bit. | ||
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killerdog
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Ignoring posts about lynch vs no lynch You've basically said early scum reads are useless, and given a few reasons for that, among which is one that I'm not sure i agree with, that we should pressure late in the day because "they wont have time to properly prepare answers in the qt" (correct me if i misunderstood.) I'll get to that in a second. You've also said that On September 04 2013 13:23 Holyflare wrote: Highlight a post that you question and ask for an explanation. It adds a pseudo pressure whereby they don't need to formulate the post, they just need to explain themselves. That is where the scum hunting is found, not by saying X or Y is scum and he has to panic create posts. and On September 04 2013 13:51 Holyflare wrote: The constant criticism of one player always shuts the door on other players who are sitting back and watching things happen. Killerdog brings up some excellent points about other players that we should all be addressing. However, as they are most likely not around for now we can't do that. Most people seem to be around now, and the threads been pretty active for the last few hours, but all you've been doing since making those posts is saying that people are playing badly, and been disagreeing with umasi on what the best way to play town is. If you have a better way, then do it. Ask the questions of people, follow up on the points you think are important. If you think Umasi is playing badly, say so, then ignore him and do what you would do if he wasn't here. Sitting here and telling everyone "Umasi is being ridiculous" benefits noone. Separately, About the idea of pressuring people before the deadline. Personally I don't think thats a very reliable tool at all, given the fact that we're Spread out among several timezones, people will have valid excuses for not being here near the deadline, so if the person who you want to pressure goes to bed 4-5 horus before the deadline, then you're left there faced with the choice of either starting a movement to lynch someone who won't be there to defend themselves before the lynch deadline, or having to give up on that target for the round. If you artificially constrain the period where you're willing to pressure people to a certain period, then either they can just not be in the thread for the period, or alternately, people who are asleep/at work/school during the period of time before the lynch will seem suspicious just because of the timezone they happen to live in. But I'd love to hear your argument in support of it. (or clarification if i misunderstood what you were getting at. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 05 2013 07:48 Chairman Ray wrote: Irrelevant post? Fixing keyboard? How do these two things even relate? Did anyone see the post before it was edited? I actually think we had a slipup. vote Lord Velocity What was the post before you edited? Wait, what just happened? To quote the rules On August 20 2013 05:33 ShiaoPi wrote: Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again using the acronym (EBWOP: Edit by way of posting) if you want to clarify/correct something you just posted. I see no reason why a "broken keyboard" has to result in an edit which can get you modkilled, you'd better have a really good reason for that. Mod question, just to clarify, the rules say no voting in this thread, but everyones been saying that they vote here, and crossposting the vote to the other thread. Do you have to vote in both, or do only votes in that thread count (and what happens if you say vote in this thread but not in that one) Also is there any rule regarding the revealing of what was edited? (by site mod or whatever,) Or is the warning the only thing. (and does that mean each mafia almost has a single "free" edit before actual consequences occur?. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 05 2013 07:56 killerdog wrote: + Show Spoiler + Holyflare, you're posting a lot about what we shouldn't do, and very little about what we should. Ignoring posts about lynch vs no lynch You've basically said early scum reads are useless, and given a few reasons for that, among which is one that I'm not sure i agree with, that we should pressure late in the day because "they wont have time to properly prepare answers in the qt" (correct me if i misunderstood.) I'll get to that in a second. You've also said that On September 04 2013 13:23 Holyflare wrote: Highlight a post that you question and ask for an explanation. It adds a pseudo pressure whereby they don't need to formulate the post, they just need to explain themselves. That is where the scum hunting is found, not by saying X or Y is scum and he has to panic create posts. and On September 04 2013 13:51 Holyflare wrote: The constant criticism of one player always shuts the door on other players who are sitting back and watching things happen. Killerdog brings up some excellent points about other players that we should all be addressing. However, as they are most likely not around for now we can't do that. Most people seem to be around now, and the threads been pretty active for the last few hours, but all you've been doing since making those posts is saying that people are playing badly, and been disagreeing with umasi on what the best way to play town is. If you have a better way, then do it. Ask the questions of people, follow up on the points you think are important. If you think Umasi is playing badly, say so, then ignore him and do what you would do if he wasn't here. Sitting here and telling everyone "Umasi is being ridiculous" benefits noone. Separately, About the idea of pressuring people before the deadline. Personally I don't think thats a very reliable tool at all, given the fact that we're Spread out among several timezones, people will have valid excuses for not being here near the deadline, so if the person who you want to pressure goes to bed 4-5 horus before the deadline, then you're left there faced with the choice of either starting a movement to lynch someone who won't be there to defend themselves before the lynch deadline, or having to give up on that target for the round. If you artificially constrain the period where you're willing to pressure people to a certain period, then either they can just not be in the thread for the period, or alternately, people who are asleep/at work/school during the period of time before the lynch will seem suspicious just because of the timezone they happen to live in. But I'd love to hear your argument in support of it. (or clarification if i misunderstood what you were getting at. Also just to clarify, on re-reading it my post sounds a bit more aggressive/accusatory then I meant it to be. I'm just pointing out that, (slightly ironically given your earlier posts :p) it feels like you've gotten caught up in some kind of philosophical disagreement with Umasi, and it feels like you're posting responses/disagreements at him rather then original content. | ||
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killerdog
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I'm leaving this here until we get a GOOD explanation of why he edited. The only town reason I can see for him having edited is if he posted something private/personal/really embarrassing by accident, panicked, and deleted it. But that doesn't at all match with the reasons he gave. Posting something irrelevant is harmless, what on earth does that have to do with a broken keyboard? and why the hell does he immediately have to disappear for "a few hours" without even being able to give some small reason as to why he broke one of the few strict rules of this game. Right now I'm seeing a Mafia who posted something he shouldn't have, panicked, and has fled the thread until he can contact his coach/talk to mafia buddies in qt to work out how to do damage control, and until someone comes up with a convincing alternative my vote is staying. | ||
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killerdog
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###vote: Lord Velocity misspelled his name lol | ||
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killerdog
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(I'm starting to see why everyone in this forum has such high post counts :p) | ||
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killerdog
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On September 05 2013 08:43 Umasi wrote: Voting vel is dumb, do not do it What reason is there not to vote for him. He just broke one of the rules of the game itself, and his excuse for having done so doesn't really make sense. I'm not saying "lynch velocity", I'm just saying that that was shady as hell, and I'm gonna leave my vote on him until this gets sorted out. In your own words On September 04 2013 14:23 Umasi wrote: I normally keep the person I think is the scummiest as my vote target, but since there are quite a few people I'm leery of, it rests on no one for now. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 05 2013 09:01 Lord Velocity wrote: I'm so so so so so Sorry people. I said that asking for reads wouldn't be scummy really unless you were trying to bandwagon on their reads, which could subsequently be scummy and realized how dumb I sounded and got embarassed, and the keyboard thing was because I dropped my laptop and had to fix my board itself because it has thin keys. And I was unaware of the no editing rule, I must have missed it. But voting for me(Killer and Chairman) is not the smartest thing. and seeing as you two hopped on it right away seeing an easy lynch but nobody else voted. And I don't even know what QT means, and I fled for an hour or so because I wanted to eat pizza with my sister who is moving out for college. I'm terribly sorry if it was suspicious and I myself have become suspicious of Killer and Chairman in the process. Lynches don't work like that, it's not like you get instant lynched if enough people vote for you. The soonest any of these votes actually mean anything is in 22 hours, when the first day ends. At that time whoever has the most votes gets lynched, or if most people voted to sleep then no-one dies. Even if everyone else voted for you now, nothing would happen until tomorrow (at least as far as my understanding of the rules goes.) So going for an "easy" lynch by bandwagoning votes before someone can respond isn't even a thing. QT is quicktopic, what the mafia use to communicate with each other. All our votes mean is that we think you're suspicious, and this is how we indicate that you're being suspicious. Just like how Umasi voted for holyflare earlier. First you don't know the no edit rule, and then you assume we're trying to "speed lynch" you or something which isn't even possible. I think you should re-read the rules. | ||
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On September 05 2013 06:04 Lord Velocity wrote: So I think Killerdog is safe to say town because of his willingness to give reads To On September 05 2013 09:01 Lord Velocity wrote: I myself have become suspicious of Killer and Chairman in the process. Based solely off the fact that we think it's suspicious that he edited a post is quite dramatic. Anyway, I'm going to sleep now. If myrzeth or pharcyd3 shows up, don't let them get away with a "sorry" and a few regurgitated reads. Also, I'm leaving my vote on Velocity, not because I want to kill him immediately, but because I find the fact that he gets suspicious of both me and ray because we thought editing was suspicious rather far fetched. (If nothing else it would be rather strange mafia play to try and bandwagon on someone like that day 1) Please don't all tunnel on velocity though, we're into the last 24 hours of day 1 and there are people who haven't spoken, or said basically anything. I'm not sure if we get to see what the post was pre-edit or not, (I asked the mod and he said something about dealing with it tomorrow) but until that happens (if it does) there's not much gained from discussing it. I liked holyflares post, and it seems like a good starting point. Also someone who I might add to the list is bereft, he disagreed with holyflare a for a few posts really early on, then disappeared. | ||
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On September 05 2013 09:28 Lord Velocity wrote: I just think it was a rookie mistake tbh I can't really say believe me, it's up to you I agree that that's a perfectly plausible excuse, and I'm not calling for you to be lynched. I'm just saying that the timing was really bad given that you were just starting to get your act together, and on top of that I don't like your immediate counter-claim on me and chairman ray. There are several people who have either not posted, or not posted anything of worth, and before your edit you were making a few decent posts, I'm not blindly forgetting that, and unless everyone else in the game suddenly starts playing really good town overnight, the chances of you getting lynched based off the edit aren't very high at all. I'm just leaving the vote on you mainly because you've had two separate incidents where you've instinctively counter-claimed scum on someone. We'll see what the mod says tomorrow and whether any of the people yet to speak up/being called out respond adequately and start making actual decisions on what to vote for after that. Just keep contributing like you were earlier. | ||
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First off, I'd like to address why I jumped so hard on the edit. LV had a rather shaky start, and responded rather badly to the pressure Umasi put on him at the very beginning. He had just started making a more actual posts but I still didn't really have any read on him. When I saw that he had made a post then edited it, I figured I had main options. 1, I tell chairman ray to chill out, that it was not something worth starting a lynch train on, and maybe put a bit of pressure on ray or something. 2, I go on him full force and see what happens. There were two main reasons I went with the second option. Firstly, he's already proven to be weak to pressure, and I was curious to see how he'd respond the second time. A few of the more "scummy" elements of his first defence had been pointed out to him, and if he'd replied either really quickly (making the "back in a few hours" thing very sketchy) or if he'd replied with a long, well worded, well thought out argument, I would have been pretty suspicious of him because it would have been such a dramatic change from the last time. Secondly, There was always the chance that someone who had been relatively quiet/noncommital had jumped onto the vote train behind me, which would have given a lot of information depending on who they were. His defence felt very natural, It was all one giant paragraph, lots of run on sentences, it just didn't feel like something which had been proofread very much or anything like that, whereas I feel a mafia would likely have put a lot of time/thought into formulating that defence if they actually felt under real pressure. Furthermore, his first two posts in the thread, (before game started): On August 31 2013 11:06 Lord Velocity wrote: /in My first game of mafia, so brace yourselves. On August 31 2013 11:22 Lord Velocity wrote: I kinda get basics, I've played irl, which is different, and then I've watched Neal's streams I felt that these two things made him having just not read the rules properly more plausible, having a good handle on the how mafia works might lead to just skimming the rules rather then carefully reading them, whereas a total beginner or someone who's played forum mafia before would probably not make that mistake. Thats why I pressured really hard for a few posts then backed off again. I was surprised that he mentioned finding me suspicious as a result, given that he'd named me as town just a few posts above, but I don't see why a mafia would do that, it seemed more like sloppy play due to stress then being a particularly town or mafia move. @Bereft, the reason I said it felt like you were placated was because you were going on him quite hard, then he said that his style was to highlight posts you question and ask for explanations, and you go On September 04 2013 13:26 Bereft wrote: hm. well. if we're just going to chat and make small talk ... i have to admit i'm no longer browsing that other newbie game for "meta" -- but for pure lulz. Alakaslam and iVLosK! sooo good. so many gems. i'd probably have kept alakaslam alive just for the banter. hahah but seriously if we're just going to talk about inconsequential shit, what's the point? also infii, killerdog, myrzeth, pharcyd3, where you guys at? And then vanish. It just felt a bit like either you felt like you'd "done your bit" or his answer fully satisfied you, because talking about the other game just felt a bit like you were looking for a way to end the conversation, rather then agreeing or disagreeing with him. I can see how that doesn't contradict your reasoning for posting it the way you did though. Also, the focus shifted off LV after the first pressure thing, my feeling of the general consensus at the time was that he had screwed up, but we were willing to (at least for now) attribute that to inexperience, and he made a few posts giving his views on things. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146¤tpage=14#268 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146¤tpage=14#274 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426146¤tpage=15#281 Nothing groundbreaking, but more then quite a few other people had done at that point. The votes to lynch were more reactions to the edited post, (as was umasi saying "don't vote vel"). I can see how these changes in mood can be hard to pick up on if you read the whole thread at once though. Also a point which i think is worth raising now. Given that we have to have voted for someone/sleep with 18 hours, and there is still a player who hasn't posted, (myrzeth,) If we lynch someone, say pharcyd3, and then myrzeth gets modkilled, what effect does that have on the game, and if we have a confirmed mod kill would it be better to sleep? I'm in a hurry to get to class so I don't have time to think about it properly right now, but I think we need to have a plan in place to account for the chance of there being a mod kill on myrzeth. Mod question, If myrzeth doesn't show up by midnight CET, does he just die, or does a replacement get put in. Browsing the thread, the only two replacements i noticed were koshi and someone else, but you said koshi had way too many games for a newbie mafia, and the other guy mentioned only doing it if apeture mafia didn't start, which it has. | ||
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On September 05 2013 14:38 Umasi wrote: Killerdog, I'm having trouble understanding what exactly you think, because you give a lot of summations of peoples posts, and your thoughts (which is good!) but you don't actually draw conclusions from it all. Instead of going X did A and Y did B which had a scummy result, be like 'this is why he is scummy/not scummy'. I can't tell what you're actually trying to communicate in your post =/ I thought I sort of did that in the long post I made while ago, but it might have been a bit hard to find because the post got a bit bloated :p I'll just put players in an abridged list of reads, in vague town to mafia order Town- Killerdog: (fuck yeah) Umasi: + Show Spoiler + Currently town read, hasn't been as much as some people, but the the posts he did make all seemed to serve a purpose, and I feel like he's been consistent in calling out behaviour he disagrees with. Also amde a few good town guiding posts. As the game progresses I'd hope for a little more reads/pressure coming from him, but he's definitely not what I'd call n1 lynch potential at all. Blurry: + Show Spoiler + I got a very town read off blurry, for reasons I said last post. However he's provided no content (other then a "good post tomorrow" promise) in the last 36 or so hours. I'm keeping him high on my town list under the assumption that he's going to make a really good town post in the next few hours, if he doesn't post, or just parrots some other opinions then he's going quite far down the list very quickly. Don't feel like he'd be a good n1 lynch just because I'm loath to abandon someone who read so town at start, but if he doesn't have a reason for vanishing or if he posts nothing of value before the voting deadline I'll reassess. Holyflare: + Show Spoiler + Holyflare's been very very active, even if a lot of the posts have been a bit fulffy with regards to relevant content. I felt like he spent most of day 1 arguing about how "mafia should be played" rather then actually playing it, which can read as scum given how he didn't want any associations thrown on him, but he god into three arguments really quickly with blurry, bereft and Umasi and didn't back down from any of them (to the point where Umasi voted him.) I feel that's a point in his favour as town, because it would take a very brave mafia to be willing to thrust himself into the limelight that quickly. He's also made two decent posts since the, one calling out heavenz and infii for their relative lack of content. While ragging on people who haven't been very productive is by no means enough to put you as a pure town read, I liked his posts, and unless he suddenly locks up would like to keep him around. Worth noting is that I think having at this stage in the game, I voting off a vocal player who might be a bit scummy is a worse play then voting off someone who has contributed nothing. We really don't want to punish contributing, and potentially end up on day 3 or 4 with a few players who have yet to commit to anything, and have all the people we've pushed hard (and have lots of post to reference and analyse) be dead. it gets a bit fuzzier here Lord Velocity: + Show Spoiler + It feels a bit like he wears his heart on his sleeve, he goes super from a little pressure, then with a little reassurance goes super starts posting normally, then goes super defensive/apologetic from some more pressure, then a little reassurance and he's back to posting normally, even being willing to knock other people for being suspicious of him because he feels he's been cleared. I don't think a mafia would be this confident in towns opinion of him, and would be a little more wary given how many times he's been under heavy suspicion. I also like that he's actively posting and engaging in discussion. Again, I really don't see him as a n1 lynch candidate right now, just because he's active, unafraid despite already having been under the gun twice, and as I said in holyflares area. Even if someone is reading a bit scummy, as long as they're active and contributing I'd rather lynch someone who's being super non-committal on the first day or 2. I get that that some people might disagree with that statement but if they do then I'd ask that we have that discussion day 2 rather then now, as we have only got 9 hours left to decide on a lynch, and I'd rather leave "meta policy" discussions or whatever until we've decided on a lynch for tonight. Bereft: + Show Spoiler + Honestly have no idea what to do with him right now, he argued with holyflare early on, then made a post about another game being funny and vanished. It feels like he didn't re-read the thread closely enough on returning or something, but he was making some accusations/quoting things out of context which didn't really make sense at the time he got back. He's not been afraid to give opinions on multiple people though, and I wouldn't mind keeping him around as long as he posts more/says more. If he keeps vanishing then coming back and quoting things out of context he's gonna go down the list pretty fast. Lonemeow: + Show Spoiler + Have trouble getting a read right now, doesn't have very many posts, but he's asking questions when he see's things which don't make sense to him and is giving his opinion on things. While he's part of the trio of inii/heavenz/lonemeow who I feel have been a little sparse with regards to putting their foot down, and would like to see a bit more pressure applied towards him, I feel out of those three he's been asking questions indiscriminatingly which puts him above the other two for now.. Heavenz: + Show Spoiler + Same boat as lonemeow right now, he moans about inactives but has a grand total of 6 posts, only two of which contained actual analysis. While his longest post isn't poorly written and contains some decent insight, but is a bit sparse with actual reads (only clear read is him saying velocity is town), 2 or 3 good points isn't really much to your name after almost 48 hours of play. Personally I don't think he's a good n1 lynch, because he's shown the potential for decent analytical posts, and is willing to throw suspicion on people, however if he doesn't start posting more regurarly and being a bit clearer with what he thinks things actually mean then he's not going any higher on my list. Infii: + Show Spoiler + Hasn't posted much at all, he promised a big post today, and based on that he'll either go up in the list or stay here, I'll probably make my decision on whether he feels like a valid day 1 lynch or not based off that. Chairman ray: + Show Spoiler + Said he was working on his scum reads but hasn't mentioned *anyone* except holyflare and umasi, where are you reads? Also jumped really hard on Lord Velocity, I know I did too but I've explained my reasoning, and I'm curious what Ray's is. Hasn't really done anything except say things about holyflare and umasi, who aren't really relevant (imo) with regards to the day1 lynch, and has shown no signs of changing, He's probably the non afk player I would be most willing to lynch at this point. Pharcyd3: + Show Spoiler + afk-ed, probably gonna get mod killed myrzeth: + Show Spoiler + claims he's been active but hasn't posted shit. That means he's read all our posts saying he needs to come out and hasn't done anything. This isn't a game where everyone does their own thing in a corner, it's a game where town has to work together, not sure if he's really bad town, creative mafia, or trolling but he's my current #1 lynch | ||
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##vote: myRZeth yeah... no. | ||
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On September 06 2013 00:32 myRZeth wrote: My role being i can t contribute a lot, just analyze your posts and if i have i lead i would gladly share it. A town who can't contribute a lot isn't worth keeping around, either you're a townie who isn't helping point out leads, or more worryingly you're a mafia who will come in after having been quiet for a few days and abuse the fact that you have no past posts which can be used against you. In forum mafia it isn't enough to no be mafia, you have to prove yourself town and you haven't done that. | ||
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On September 06 2013 01:01 Blurry wrote: While I agree that he (myrzeth) isn't worth keeping around it may just be a waste of a vote to lynch him today. I'm assuming that the mafia has a QT which they can use during the day? If that is the case, if he really was just a lurking mafia his buddies would have given him stuff to say in order to save him. I just don't think there is enough to go on piling on the easiest target because he is just a lurker, and it may very well be that a lot of the pressure on him is coming from mafia themselves. Be careful in voting for him because he is the easiest target for mafia to get a mislynch right now compared to anyone else. The chances of us getting a for sure mafia lynch night 1 are quite low though, in a 12 man set up we're allowed 3-4 mislynches, and using one to get rid of a lurker is, in my opinion, worth it. I'm confused by your logic that "we shouldn't pressure him because he might say things which can save him." If he's mafia having him give some reads which are informative enough for us to want to lynch someone else instead is vastly preferable to lynching someone else but not getting those reads. Also by saying this, you've implied that you think him not giving any information at all even under threat of lynch is a town move, something i strongly disagree with. Besides, if you don't want lynch him, that means you think town would benefit more from lynching someone else then they would from lynching him. Who do you think is the better lynch? On September 05 2013 13:21 Blurry wrote: Expect to hear from me in the morning about other players and how i think we should proceed going into night 1. Maybe you can include it in your writeup. | ||
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On September 06 2013 01:10 killerdog wrote: in a 12 man set up we're allowed 3-4 mislynches, Wait sorry, I think my math was bad there, d1 = 8 v 3 n1 = 7 v 3 d2 = 6 v 3 n2 = 5 v 3 d3 = 4 v 3 n3 = 3 v 3 So if we mislynch three times in a row we lose. Also worth noting if parcyd3 gets modkilled tonight, and we mislynch tonight then d1 = 8 v 3 modkill = 7 v 3 n1 = 6 v 3 d2 = 5 v 3 n2 = 4 v 3 d3 = 3 v 3 (if mislynch So regardless of whether parcyd3 gets modkilled or not, worst case scenario is still we need to lynch a mafia at the latest day 3, or we lose. | ||
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On September 06 2013 01:20 Holyflare wrote: modkills should normally be replaced first before being killed out and I've done the math in like my first post I know, but I'm not sure there are any replacements available. The only one on the list is koshi and he's definitely not a newbie :p And I'm aware the maths already got brought up, I just felt it was relevant to point out that, even if there is a modkill, we should still kill tonight as a mod kill doesn't change the fact we lose in 3 mislynches. (and also i wanted to clarify my maths fail in saying we could have 3-4 mislynches) On September 06 2013 01:20 Lord Velocity wrote: Well you also might want to remember we can have cop checks, Vigi shots, etc Of course cop checks and vigi shots count, but I was talking about the worst case scenario. I decided not to accoutn for Vigi randomly shooting a townie before we find any mafia because that would just be really dumb. | ||
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Blurry, On September 05 2013 13:21 Blurry wrote: Expect to hear from me in the morning about other players and how i think we should proceed going into night 1. Lets hear it Remember Infii Heavenz bereft pharcyd3 lonemeow blurry You all need to vote or you're gonna get modkilled in under 5 hours. | ||
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heres the issue i have with you, you're calling out lonemeow for no analysis, but going through your filter here is the net sum of all the analysis you've provided over the past 45 hours. On September 06 2013 03:50 Blurry wrote: I want to draw attention to LoneMeow's posting content. It is made up of either asking people of their opinions on players or criticizing other peoples content. There is literally no analysis form him at any point in the game, nor taking any sides. Hes creating posts without content to make it seem like hes contributing to the discussion. This is pretty darn scummy. On September 04 2013 13:38 Blurry wrote: Aggression at the start is in no way indicative of scum, and if anything, is more a town indicator than anything, especially when he is leading the charge against a player. It is really risky for scum to be so direct because it draws so much attention to them. Umasi is probably my biggest town read for that reason right now. and On September 06 2013 01:01 Blurry wrote: While I agree that he (myrzeth) isn't worth keeping around it may just be a waste of a vote to lynch him today. I'm assuming that the mafia has a QT which they can use during the day? If that is the case, if he really was just a lurking mafia his buddies would have given him stuff to say in order to save him. I just don't think there is enough to go on piling on the easiest target because he is just a lurker, and it may very well be that a lot of the pressure on him is coming from mafia themselves. Be careful in voting for him because he is the easiest target for mafia to get a mislynch right now compared to anyone else. What are your opinions on -chairman ray -heavenz and are you saying you would rather lynch lonemeow then myrzeth? | ||
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Given how little he's posted so far, I think any attempt to work out what role he is is just going to be speculation. Blurry has made the argument that he's not mafia because mafia would have defended themselves by now. I disagree strongly with supporting that view point because not only does it discourage him from posting, but reading a lack of contribution as townie is pretty just getting a bit WIFOM imo. (did I use it right? :p) I also don't like that blurry brought that up so quickly, that's a valid point to make if we get to 30 minutes before the deadline and he still hasn't posted or something, but bringing it up so early before myrzeth has proven that he isn't going to defend himself further just complicates everything imo. No reason to provide someone under pressure with an out. Personally I'm in no way convinced that he's scum. I think it comes down to a choice between lynching myrzeth because he's lurking/being useless or lynching someone else who we think reads scummy. Personally I'm leaning towards lynching myrzeth, because from the way he responded to people challenging his silence, and the fact he still hasn't come in with a post bigger then a one liner, means I don't think he's going to suddenly be super contributive tomorrow. I'd rather not have to spend half a day arguing with someone about play styles again, or even worse have him just dissappear and then being in a situation day 2 where there might be a strong mafia read we want to lynch, but having to choose between lynching the afk lurker or the mafia read. And if he turns out to be mafia thats just a perk. | ||
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1. lynch myrzeth for shitty town play (and if we get lucky and hit a mafia, yay win) 2. lynch someone as a scum read, the a few people are pushing for LV in particular. I also think chairman ray has been a bit suspicious compared to other people, but I've seen a few people put him down as one of their town reads so thats moved him (temporarily) down on my scum list. 3. lynch someone else for shitty town play, but I don't see anyone else as anywhere near as potentially useless at myrzeth seems to be looking. | ||
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On September 06 2013 05:33 LoneMeow wrote: I'm also not sure I'd want to lynch Lord Velocity either, while he does seem somewhat scummy the fact that no one seems to be opposed to lynching him makes me wonder if he's just mislynch bait. (Yay, pre-flip associations... But I still do really feel that way, for now.) I've voiced my opinion that I don't think he's an intelligent d1 lynch, although it was a while ago so I'll give my reasons again. I'm reading him as a new player who is very eager, he cracked under pressure very easily both times, but bounced right back almost immediately. The lack of caution in his play (especially right after being under the gun) requires self confidence that I don't think mafia have.+ Show Spoiler + (note, after the first time I made this point, I looked at his posting habits before and after to see if he suddenly went more aggressive, but didn't see any noticeable change.) My overall read is he's one of three things -New player who's really eager but isn't very experienced -Really good mafia player who's faking newbie town really well -Really bad mafia who's playing wayyyy more agressive then he should given his current situation. (The last two are a bit wifom) But currently I'm leaning towards him being inexperienced town. The reason I think he'd be a poor d1 lynch is, firstly, He's active, bad at pressure and not afraid to commit to things. This means that if he is mafia, he shouldn't be very hard to break in a day or two, and his aggressive posting is leaving a huge crumb trail behind him. Secondly, he doesn't really have any friends right now, he hasn't really defended anyone and has at various points called pretty much everyone scummy. So I feel that regardless of what he flips, we don't really learn anything. Compare that to the information we might get from lynching someone else. Say we lynch Infii, regardless of whether he flips scum or town, we have the potential to look at his past posts and maybe learn something from them. Not everyone has aggroed on him and he hasn't aggroed on very many people and we could maybe read something from that. And third and most importantly, I'm just not getting a scum read off him. It might be because he hasn't aggroed on me at all, but his play just seems to open and carefree for me to tick him off as overly scummy. I hope that makes sense. Anyway, as my vote on myrzeth suggests, he's my current preferred target, just because I don't see him being anything other then a liability if left alive, but I'm open to suggestions. | ||
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On September 06 2013 04:17 Blurry wrote: My opinion is that Chairman Ray is slightly town because he did advance the discussion and brought up concerns about players nobody else had really said anything against. Your opinion on holyflares psot? | ||
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On September 06 2013 05:35 Lord Velocity wrote: I will have longer posts in like 2 hours, have to take the bus home The day ends an hour and a half from when you made that post, (one hour from when I make this one.) Make sure you don't get modkilled for talking at night :p | ||
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On September 06 2013 06:00 Chairman Ray wrote: I will post a very long analysis during the nighttime since there's only 1 hour left. --- From all this information, I would urge you guys to not vote myRZeft. Also don't vote HolyFlare or Umasi, which I will explain later (I promise) Two things, firstly, are we actually allowed to talk at night? I thought we weren't but looking at the rules I don't see that anywhere so I might be wrong. Secondly, you just said a bunch of people you don't think we should lynch. Given that the current target is you, and not any of those people, the only reason not to lynch you you've given so far is the promise of a potential long post. Who would you rather see lynched and why? | ||
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Are we allowed to talk at night? forgot mod font | ||
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On September 06 2013 06:06 Umasi wrote: make sure you don't get modkilled for talking at night? sorry, I'd misunderstood the rules :p | ||
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On September 06 2013 06:05 Bereft wrote: LV's arguments are laughably bad. also what's with him going balls to the wall to paint the 2 people with suspicions of him (blurry and myself) as mafia? would be disappointed if he genuinely finds me sketchy - am inclined to think this is an ink defense. ##vote lord velocity Whats your response to my points in favour of not voting for him? On September 06 2013 05:54 killerdog wrote: + Show Spoiler + I've voiced my opinion that I don't think he's an intelligent d1 lynch, although it was a while ago so I'll give my reasons again. I'm reading him as a new player who is very eager, he cracked under pressure very easily both times, but bounced right back almost immediately. The lack of caution in his play (especially right after being under the gun) requires self confidence that I don't think mafia have.+ Show Spoiler + (note, after the first time I made this point, I looked at his posting habits before and after to see if he suddenly went more aggressive, but didn't see any noticeable change.) My overall read is he's one of three things -New player who's really eager but isn't very experienced -Really good mafia player who's faking newbie town really well -Really bad mafia who's playing wayyyy more agressive then he should given his current situation. (The last two are a bit wifom) But currently I'm leaning towards him being inexperienced town. The reason I think he'd be a poor d1 lynch is, firstly, He's active, bad at pressure and not afraid to commit to things. This means that if he is mafia, he shouldn't be very hard to break in a day or two, and his aggressive posting is leaving a huge crumb trail behind him. Secondly, he doesn't really have any friends right now, he hasn't really defended anyone and has at various points called pretty much everyone scummy. So I feel that regardless of what he flips, we don't really learn anything. Compare that to the information we might get from lynching someone else. Say we lynch Infii, regardless of whether he flips scum or town, we have the potential to look at his past posts and maybe learn something from them. Not everyone has aggroed on him and he hasn't aggroed on very many people and we could maybe read something from that. And third and most importantly, I'm just not getting a scum read off him. It might be because he hasn't aggroed on me at all, but his play just seems to open and carefree for me to tick him off as overly scummy. I hope that makes sense. Anyway, as my vote on myrzeth suggests, he's my current preferred target, just because I don't see him being anything other then a liability if left alive, but I'm open to suggestions. | ||
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On September 06 2013 06:09 Holyflare wrote: inb4 clusterfuck voting 1 minute before deadline again............ As long as people give a reason for their vote when they cast it, clusterfucks can be great information :p | ||
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Would you rather lynch myrzeth, Chairman Ray or Lord Velocity? | ||
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On September 06 2013 06:26 Umasi wrote: holyflare, put your vote in the thread also, myr, why did you put your vote on ray? On September 06 2013 00:05 myRZeth wrote: voting holyflare, because he s voting me without any clues/analysis/whatever you can t vote somebody because of his playstyle, especially not that early, think about that simply a countervote I really don't like letting myr live til day 2, but hopefully he'll start playing the game tomorrow. We wont lose from a second mislynch (if ray is town) so I guess it's not the end of the world if we have to kill myr off tomorrow for still being afk. ##vote chairman ray | ||
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On September 06 2013 06:36 Holyflare wrote: I thought we had to post votes in here to show people as well as the vote thread? He's a rebel -.- | ||
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Although thinking about it, why would he switch votes onto someone who is almost certainly gonna get lynched (at least with the way this conversation is going so far) and then not even comment in the thread. If myrzeth is town, I don't see that making any sense at all, if he's mafia, it shows a mafia bandwagon. Either way, it just makes me want to lynch him even more. | ||
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I really don't want to have everything go to shit in the last 5 minutes becomes someone randomly goes "ok i'm Q" | ||
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On September 06 2013 06:47 heavenz wrote: ##vote Blurry he's a worse version of myRZeth. Everything you do is so smothe, totally neutral. You're not giving in anywhere, dispite, I belive you could. You acknowldge your neutrality and think you can just pass by it. A little suspecious on VL there, but not commiting (lol just by what he's writing he's suspicious as f´´k). I don't trust you, and I value Rays's work more. I have made a longer case where I went through your posts before. The thing is, compare the cost of not lynching either of them. We don't lynch blurry, people with suspicions can grill him tomorrow and maybe get leads out of him. We don't lynch myrzeth, if he just stays afk like he has today, then well shit, we have to waste a lynch on him (causing us to not be able to properly pressure actual scum reads) or leave him alive (again) til day 3, where it's lynch a mafia or lose. And i really really don't want to be in a position where it's lynch or lose and myr is still in the game, not having said anything. | ||
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can we get an official count of the votes? | ||
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On September 06 2013 06:55 Chairman Ray wrote: Reads Umasi - Town HolyFlare - Town myRZeth - Town Lord Velocity - Mafia Read on me? | ||
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On September 06 2013 06:58 Chairman Ray wrote: You rode my bandwagon onto LV, but with no backup, slightly pointing town in itself, or mafia decided to ditch the plan after umasi halted it. Could go either way. You rode the bandwagon onto me. I'd say you are 55% mafia 45% town. I wrote a post way earlier stating why i did that -.-, at least pretend to have read it. Anyway, times up | ||
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dun dun dun dunnnnn | ||
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On September 06 2013 07:00 Blurry wrote: For the record, I think Chairman Ray is going to flip green. Its just so hard to tell this early in the game. Brave thing to say after the deadline | ||
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Also myrzeth switching his vote (without posting) is basically putting him right at the top of my scum list. | ||
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 , yay for silver linings.)On September 06 2013 07:29 Lord Velocity wrote: I didn't understand you Killer when you tried to pressure that I should be voted off and about me not having anything good to say about you, when I actually read you as town based on your actions and good logic before I assume you're responding to this post + Show Spoiler + On September 06 2013 05:54 killerdog wrote: Secondly, he doesn't really have any friends right now, he hasn't really defended anyone and has at various points called pretty much everyone scummy. So I feel that regardless of what he flips, we don't really learn anything. Compare that to the information we might get from lynching someone else. Say we lynch Infii, regardless of whether he flips scum or town, we have the potential to look at his past posts and maybe learn something from them. Not everyone has aggroed on him and he hasn't aggroed on very many people and we could maybe read something from that. First I'd like to say, I stated the reasons I felt it was wrong to lynch velocity on multiple occasions, and kept asking different people for a response to my reasoning to know whether they agreed or not. I don't remember anyone even acknowledging it, and that's why I decided not to push for him. As for the reason i just quoted, this is one I've had in my notes for a while. As the only two calls he really made were Umasi town, (which most people seem to agree with) and me town, from my perspective where I already know I'm town, a lynch on him doesn't give any information, as the "town" call on Umasi isn't really very dramatic. Therefore, with an hour to go before the lynch, I decided to give *my* reasons for not lynching LV, in the hopes that either some people would agree with my logic, or come with counter arguments, but everyone ignored it. @bereft, you're taking so many posts out of context. You justify bandwagoning a bit of pressure on him for his first post, but me doing the same move later when chairman ray jumps on the edit you find suspicious. You're also for some reason putting emphasis on "the timeline" of two posts. I hadn't read your list of "analysis" when i made the post below it. I did what I normally do, open up a post then slowly add stuff to it, while eating breakfast or whatever else is going on, then publish it. Anything I see which has been posted between me starting my post and me posting it I address afterwards/when i get back to my computer so I fail to see what relevance the order has. Also him saying I was probably town because I was willing to provide reads was 7 hours before you posted your "reads," when I was the only person who'd gone in depth on every player. (A note about those reads, there you are also going on me for the "loaded questions" post, look at the timing of the post, it was meant to be part of the longer post but I just forgot to include it in it.) You've also failed to address the fact that Umasi has been defending Velocity on multiple occasions, I even specifically asked him what his thoughts on velocity were, + Show Spoiler + On September 06 2013 06:27 Umasi wrote: see my other post :| although myrz vote is super fucking weird again And he referenced me a post where he only talks about voting for chairman ray. Sure, a little after he says + Show Spoiler + But by that point velocity was very much in the clear regarding votes, and it would have taken something of a miracle for him to get voted off. This was the first non positive mention Umasi makes of Velocity, and yet find my interactions with him more suspicious. Anyway, not sure if I'll be back before tonight, if anyone has any questions just ask. | ||
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Apologies for just disappearing off the face of the earth for a while, it's 4 am here and I haven't slept yet, so I might leave the fine toothed combing til tomorrow, but I'll try and make a post respond to any questions I find directed at me and say a few things which I think are important over the next hour or two. Gonna go get some caffeine. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On September 08 2013 02:49 infii wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 06 2013 06:33 killerdog wrote: I really don't like letting myr live til day 2, but hopefully he'll start playing the game tomorrow. We wont lose from a second mislynch (if ray is town) so I guess it's not the end of the world if we have to kill myr off tomorrow for still being afk. ##vote chairman ray He states no reason for voting him but he already said earlier that ray would be a likely candidate for him to lynch. Also I assume he just agrees with Umasi's argumentation. But the fact that he voted on ray last although he had ray under suspicion for almost a day makes the whole thing fishy. I'd gone into the night wanting to follow one of two lynch plans. 1. Lynch myrzeth if he didn't join the game properly 2. Lynch a scum suspect. I felt the best move at the time was to lynch myrzeth, for several reasons which I stated then. (If you want claraification of any of my posts from then, just ask.) So I decided to post my reasons for why I wanted to lynch myrzeth, hoping to either show why he was the best lynch, or have any flaws in my logic pointed out/have someone explain why someone else would be a better lynch. The first movement seemed (from what I remember) to be several people gunning for an LV. I, (again for reasons I've already posted) didn't feel like he was an optimum n1 lynch, and posted my reasoning for this, it basically got ignored by everyone (even when I specifically asked a few people to address the points I'd raised,) and I didn't feel comfortable following along in a vote train with people who weren't willing to discuss my reasons for not voting for him. Furthermore, Umasi, (who at the time I had down as one of my town reads, I'll give an updated list of reads once I've been through everything properly, no point in throwing uneducated assumptions around.) had defended/deflected from Lord Velocity on several occasions. After that motion seemed to pass, the second target became Chairman ray. He'd been on my suspicious list for a while, (see my earlier (latter part of day 1) list of player reads) and the reason I'd held off on him was in part because of a post by blurry (Who was also one of my town reads, although not as high as umasi because of much lower activity) which was what I was referring to when I said "I'd been suspicions of ray but some people have listed him as town reads) or something. On September 06 2013 04:17 Blurry wrote: My opinion is that Chairman Ray is slightly town because he did advance the discussion and brought up concerns about players nobody else had really said anything against. By saying he suspects Umasi who right now is probably the biggest leader in discussion he goes after the player who I would guess has the biggest sway. I honestly can't remember how the lynch on chairman got started at this point, but I remember the reason I switched was because several people had voiced not wanting to lynch myrzeth/wanting to try to lynch scum (blurry and umasi are the two names I can remember standing out off the top of my head.) and as the number of votes on myrzeth at the time made it seem like him getting lynched was very unlikely, decided it was a choice between LV and chairman ray. I asked Umasi for his thoughts on velocity vs myrzeth vs chairman ray because he'd been defensive of velocity without every really giving a reason why up unitl that point. He responded by voting on chairman ray, and I decided that if Holyflare and umasi, my two strongest town reads, were the people pushing the case to lynch him, and the people pushing velocity were on my "unknown/scummy" list, combined with the fact noone had adressed my points against voting velocity, led me to vote ray. I didn't realise myrzeth had switched his vote until after I'd voted charles (it was mentioned in this thread after i posted my vote, which is where i saw it first.) It took a minute or two for exactly how scummy that seemed to me to sink in (there was a lot of stuff going backwards and forwards then) but i very nearly switched my vote back. I didn't because 1. I didn't think myrzeth would get lynched based off the votes on him at the time 2. The idea had already been floated, and it didn't take off with everyone, given there was so little time left I doubted we could have a proper discussion about it. 3. Chairman ray wasn't doing the best job of defending himself, and didn't even try until it was very late (in retrospect I think he only realised he was actually about to get lynched at the last minute), and holyflare was jumping all over him. Even blurry ended up saying he felt some of what ray was saying at this point seemed scummy. The last minute votes on myrzeth also surprised me, but I don't think suddenly switching votes in the last few minutes is ever a good idea. I'm aware now that a last second vote would have swung it in favour of myrzeth, but heavenz and chairman voted really fucking late. Obviously I regret that now, but I still don't think last second jumps are good for town unless someone lets something huge slip, or a blue role gives some amazing evidence. On September 08 2013 05:36 Lord Velocity wrote: Something serious came up within my family and I am 100% certain I no longer have time to play with you all, I'm so sorry that the inconvenience happened, I wish town the best of luck. Good bye all! Oh shit, just saw this post. Goodbye man, hopefully it all turns out ok. -- So how do substitutions work when someone willingly leaves the game? Will he get subbed before the lynch, or does he just not vote, then get replaced in the night post. Also, given that there are two potential modkills and only one replacement (koshi,) does that mean one of them just dies? Reading Infii's big post, It feels a bit like rather then analysing how ray got lynched, he's making a case against holyflare. I'm not saying making cases against people isn't town play, (it's sort of a pillar of it.) But personally that post felt more like after his analysis, he'd decided holyflare was scum, and decided to try and prove it. just a note. I'm not sure how I feel about the accusation that, forgive me for paraphrasing a little, Holyflare engineered chairman ray's lynching. I'll respond to that more fully after I've gone through the lynching posts more thoroughly, because that isn't a question I feel comfortable tackling without having done so. Not sure how to deal with the "roleblock" claim either, I don't think that lends any more evidence towards him being town then him just saying "I'm town" does. I'm just gonna note it down, and if he turns out to flip town at some point or get cop checked or whatever, then we know there's a roleblocker of some type in the game. Maybe we could try and work something out by asking who would roleblock infii, but thats a wifom-y road. -- A note on bereft, I acknowledge that he has work and therefore can't be as active just before lynches, (although that shouldn't stop him being present for the next lynch right?) But in my book that means we should expect more from him during the rest of the day/night. As holyflare said before, just before the lynch is the time when you can pressure people hard and scum are most likely to make mistakes/reveal their actions. If we can't pressure you properly then, then it's your job to make yourself worth keeping around despite the fact you're a little more of a liability then most because we wont be able to get as good reads on you. -- Holyflares defence against Infii's accusations, I was confused by how he'd quoted infii for wayy too long here. It eventually made sense when i read everything as infii's post except the bold, which I read as holyflares responses, (sorry, my brain is half asleep.) In the future can people try their best to use the quotes feature? I know it takes a bit of extra time, but it improves readability dramatically. It also makes it much easier for people to quote your post without everything getting confused. On the actual contents of the post, again, I'm gonna refrain from judging until I've had more time to go over stuff. -- I had a bit about umasi not responding to my questions, but i just looked in the thread and saw he had. Yeah I'm still awake, gonna post what i have so far so you don't think i've gone :p | ||
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On September 08 2013 13:01 Bereft wrote: what i'd like to know is why you switched your vote to chairman ray at the last minute. looking at your post history, you say the following: then all of a sudden with zero explanation: i agree you've gone out of your way to explain why you don't think LV is a good day 1 lynch candidate. but what's your explanation for suddenly switching to ray with zero explanation when you were so adamant that myrzeth was the best choice before? myrzeth may have been lynched had you kept your vote on him. i'd like to hear about your change of heart. First of all, it's worth noting that almost an hour and a half had passed between the two posts, and a lot of stuff had been said by various people in that time. I've talked a little about how my perception of the night went in the post above, but basically I was getting the feeling that a lot of people weren't behind the idea of lynching myrzeth. At the time I switched votes, I believe there was only one other guy on him. Infii, heavenz and ray all put their votes on him after that. Given that other then myrzeth, the two people in the limelight were LV and ray. I'd personally voiced why i didn't want to kill LV, and at this point my read on the situation was myrzeth wasn't gonna get lynched, (velocity was the only other guy on him iirc.) Therefore, given the choice between someone I felt "against" lynching, and someone I was rather suspicious of myself, you can see why I would lean towards ray. I decided that, as you were my main town read at the time, and had yet to go on velocity at all this game (other then the pressure at the very start,) I'd ask you for your reads on velocity and ray. On September 06 2013 06:20 killerdog wrote: Umasi, whats your opinion of voting for velocity? You've lightly defended him in the past, but you've also indicated that if there was a strong scum read you'd prefer to lynch them instead of going for the afk/lurker. Would you rather lynch myrzeth, Chairman Ray or Lord Velocity? You ended up not responding to the asked for read on velocity, but instead went onto ray with a vote. Given that I was leaning that way already, that was just the final straw which pushed me over the edge. When I found out myrzeth had switched his vote and people were piling votes onto myrzeth again, I very nearly switched back, but ended up making the snap decision to stay on ray. 6 am, I'm in denmark. But i have priorities :p | ||
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On September 08 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote: probably, it's 5am. umasi, since you're here, why'd you unvote infii? of the top of my head i think you said something that he defended himself well and FOS'd holyflare. why does him calling holyflare scum convince you? i just read through his posting history; nothing he's posted seems terribly substantial or memorable to me.. Somehow i must have deleted the quote again. | ||
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Firstly, here are the facts as I see it. 1. If we mislynch again, it's mylo 3. 2. we have two potential modkills (pharcyd3 and lord velocity) and only 1 reserve player (koshi, assuming he's allowed to be used.) 3. myrzeth is still alive. 4. if only one of the modkills gets replaced, and the other dies, then day 3 becomes lylo if we mislynch today. I see this lynch as being a choice between either a) Lynching myrzeth. Afk, useless as a townie, and has a super suspicious vote on chairman. b) Lynching a scum read. One of my bigger fears at this point is reaching day 3, and being in a lylo/mylo situaiton where myrzeth is still alive and still hasn't spoken. I probably don't have to explain why that sucks, but it means that if we mislynch someone else today, we can't lynch myrzeth d3 unless we're willing to bet the entire game that he's mafia, and not the anti-towniest of towns. On the flip side, if we all just agree that we're lynching myrzeth today, that basically takes all pressure of the other mafia members. A situation almost as shitty as having an afk still alive in lylo is lynching myrzeth, he being town, and then going into day three with it being mylo, and having almost no new leads because everyone just voted for myrzeth then chatted about LoL or something for 48 hours. :p Either way it's starting to feel like we're going to have to rely on information from blues to win us the game day 3 unless one of the mafia fucks up, which is a situation I really don't want to have to be in, especially considering there's a non negligible chance that pharcyd3 (or god forbid myrzeth) is our cop. In which case we'd be sitting day unable to do anything. (and this is assuming there isn't a framer/the framer and cop havn't hit the same guy yet. I'm honestly not sure what the best course of action is at this point, but it's starting to feel like we're going to have take a calculated risk with a lynch either d2 or d3. Thoughts? | ||
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should be 1. If we mislynch again it's mylo day 3* And I feel like it's important we find out whether either pharcyd3 or LV are going to get replaced, or killed off. Because that decides whether we're going to have the option to sleep day 3 or not. Sup mods, can you tell us whether pharcyd3/LV will get straight up killed, and if you don't know yet when will you be able to tell us? | ||
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On September 08 2013 13:47 Holyflare wrote: maybe I am, and killer the lol talk was only the last page there has been a shit tonne of stuff before that although it's mainly just me and infii Yeah i know, i was just using it as an example :p | ||
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On September 08 2013 13:41 Umasi wrote: because he was correct /wifom BOMB you mean my not responding about vel, killer? I think I mentioned which way I thought when I voted for ray On September 06 2013 06:24 Umasi wrote: velocity has both good and bad things in his filter, but I think you're scummier than him. Heavenz and infii aren't really off, they're still -.-.-.-.--egh, but you're pretty out there. Oh yeah. I see it now. I'm not sure if I just didn't read it yesterday or did read but forgot since then, Either way, my mistake. apologies. You responded to my post with + Show Spoiler + On September 06 2013 06:27 Umasi wrote: see my other post :| although myrz vote is super fucking weird again Which i assumed was pointing to + Show Spoiler + On September 06 2013 06:24 Umasi wrote: ##VOTE RAY ray scumslips don't exist, and you've done a lot of hunting for scumslips this game, with your qt talk at the beginning, then your accusing LV with quick topic crap.. I'm not buying it. He might have known it was an abbreviation, or he did what you did at the beginning and capitalized that. Why are you pressuring him hard on something as insignificant as THAT? sure, you 'could' be correct, and he's actually scum, and you caught a scum slip but..... not buying it. Had problems with this post a while ago, because it was like 'no guys they still could be scummy', which is correct, but not because of some kind of scum tactics, you just state every possible scenario which is totally pointless. velocity has both good and bad things in his filter, but I think you're scummier than him. Heavenz and infii aren't really off, they're still -.-.-.-.--egh, but you're pretty out there. | ||
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Final thoughts, I still don't like heavenz dumping his vote at the last second. His reasoning in the thread was On September 06 2013 06:58 heavenz wrote: f´´k it, I go safe before my vote is wasted. ##unvote ##vote myrezth I just wanted to have stated my seriousness on you blurry. What does "I go safe" even mean, and how is putting your vote on myrzeth, guy who is currently at 2 votes compared to ray's 5, any less of a "waste" then leaving it on blurry. I'd love some clarification on that. If he's already mentioned it, apologies, but I couldn't see it on his filter. The only recent post he has basically feels like him saying he has no idea what's going on and apologising for it. (which also felt a bit wierd.) Anyway, I'm off to sleep. | ||
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On September 08 2013 14:11 Lord Velocity wrote: Sorry I'm on the road right now because of said emergency, and I messaged Shiao for a replacement, but if not I apologize once again. No problem, wish you the best of luck whatever it is. Real life comes first. | ||
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out of the players left, obviously we can't really lynch koshi or LV and Umasi/Holyflare are both still my stronger townier reads, so not in my sights either. For me that leaves 5 options. I'll quickly give brief thoughts on each: infii + Show Spoiler + I was having a hard time getting a read on him day 1, but it feels like he's become more active day 2. He's pointed a few things out which don't really make sense in my opinion. (fx, he said the umasi vs holyflare argument was likely umasi being scum pressuring holyflare, but then goes on to list holyflare as a scum read.) I've been getting a very anti anti holyflare vibe for a while though, which confuses me. I'm not sure why a single mafia would pressure one of the players generally perceived as town so hard alone, without anyone agreeing with them. And given how aggressive holyflare has been so far it would seem really risky from his perspective. I'm not sure what infii would be hoping to get out of it. heavenz + Show Spoiler + As I said earlier, On September 08 2013 14:08 killerdog wrote: Final thoughts, I still don't like heavenz dumping his vote at the last second. His reasoning in the thread was What does "I go safe" even mean, and how is putting your vote on myrzeth, guy who is currently at 2 votes compared to ray's 5, any less of a "waste" then leaving it on blurry. I'd love some clarification on that. If he's already mentioned it, apologies, but I couldn't see it on his filter. The only recent post he has basically feels like him saying he has no idea what's going on and apologising for it. (which also felt a bit wierd.) Anyway, I'm off to sleep. I'd very much like a clarification of his vote-post, which confuses me, and for him to join in the discussion. He has only posted twice day 2, once saying he's confused and once with philosophical thoughts of how myrzeth/koshi/velocity mafia basically screws us. @heavenz, who would you want to lynch tonight? myrzeth + Show Spoiler + His vote onto ray with no comment moved him from my "no idea, but he's useless so we should lynch him" list to my "scum. kill." list. I'm not sure if I quite agree with holyflares logic that lynching him is anti town, but I'll deal with that later. bereft + Show Spoiler + He feels like he's been very tunnel vision-y, first he goes on velocity hard. He mentioned he wanted to hear something from myrzeth "in the next two hours" but myrzeth stays silent and then two hours later he votes for velocity. (I even felt like i ended up on his suspicious list purely by having an opinion on velocity.) Has a vote on myrzeth. lonemeow + Show Spoiler + He's been relatively passive in terms of giving analysis, quite a few questions asked of people, but not very much followup pressure. Hard to get a read on but I'm definitely not 100% sure he's scum. | ||
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On September 09 2013 02:10 Holyflare wrote: If anyone wants to lynch myrzeth they are scummy, as i see it it's pretty much mylo right know as even if the replacements are scum they are fresh players and our reads on them will be so wifomy that we won't have any clue if they are scum or not so we need to lynch the people we have information on, myrzeth is looking scummy but hasn't said anything for us to determine whether he is scum or not. In that regard i think we should lynch someone on the ray bandwagon like i said and i feel that killer is too towny to lynch and umasi im undecided on so that only really leaves lone? I don't like the logic of this post. Maybe I've just misunderstood it though. You're saying it's mylo because unless we lynch a mafia tonight, we're going to end up in a situation tomorrow with potentiallly 3 players, (myrzeth, pharcyd3 replacement and koshi) who haven't said shit. Therefore, unless we lynch a mafia tonight, we're done tomorrow. (sorry if I misunderstood.) The issue i have with that is, if you're afraid of being in a situation where people haven't spoken enough, why on earth do you not want to lynch myrzeth. If we lynch myrzeth tonight, and he's mafia, then we have breathing room and can use the extra time to find mafia. If he's town we're in mylo tomorrow (or lylo if velocity gets modkilled) but with 1-2 less quiet people complicating everything. If we lynch someone else and they're mafia, we gain an extra turn or two to get reads/lynch myrzeth (if he's still afk.) If we lynch someone else and they're town, we're in lylo/mylo tomorrow, except we will have 2 or 3 people who we have no reads on, instead of 1-2. It's a bit of a prisoners dilema situation, but I see it as, lynch a mafia tonight, good. myrzeth and he flips town, bad. Lynch someone else and they're town, worse. Therefore you'd have to think someone is almost for sure scum to lynch them tonight in place of myrzeth. While there are scummy people here and there, I'm not sure if anyone qualifies as scummy enough. Secondly, You're giving two of the scummier people a free pass out of being voted off. If either velocity or myrzeth are scum (and I think the chances of them both being town are pretty low) then there are only 2 mafia in the rest of the game. (worst case scenario 1 if koshi is mafia.) If koshi is mafia, then (even assuming one of infii/lonemeow is mafia) we have a 50% chance of fucking ourselves if we pick the wrong one. I'm not we have to lynch myrzeth at all, I'm just saying I think going "whoever wants to lynch myrzeth is scum" is stupid, especially for the reasons you gave. | ||
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If we lynch one of them and they flip town, what is the contingency plan? We are in a day three with an inactive and two replacements, (or worse, a lylo with 1 inactive and koshi if velocity gets modkilled and was town.) And where do we go from there? Unless you plan on never killing myrzeth, we need to get rid of him. We can't rely on hitting a mafia this round, and if we hit town, we can't risk the entire game by killing myrzeth in a mylo situation. The further into the game we go the more costly a wasted lynch gets. Koshi, what is your reasoning for/for not killing myrzeth tonight? | ||
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Where is everyone else? If you're reading please speak T.T | ||
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On September 09 2013 06:04 Koshi wrote: O rly? You going to blame us for pushing people that can't defend themselves? Have you even read your cases? I've stated my reasons for not wanting to vote for bereft/lonemeow unless we're sure they're scum already. And given this is a newbie game, they could easily have been just suspicious town play (as evidenced by chairman ray.) I would much prefer to at least have a chance to see them respond to the accusations, and make a judgement then. Have you been reading my posts? | ||
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On September 09 2013 06:05 Koshi wrote: Here is your previous post again. tldr: lynch people who don't talk much. So why are you so against lynching myrzeth? | ||
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On September 09 2013 06:10 Koshi wrote: I am not against it. I found scum in bereft and want to lynch him over a nullread. Alternate scenario then, we lynch myrzeth tonight, when he gets back you will have a ton of time to pressure the shit out of him, and if you still think he's mafia after that, lynch him. Myrzeth is mafia, it's a win, yay. We can basically do whatever you want tomorrow with impunity because the risk of mylo is gone. Myrzeth isn't mafia, then one of two things happens. Bereft isn't mafia. + Show Spoiler + If we lynch bereft tonight+ Show Spoiler + If he isn't mafia and we lynch him tonight, we're in a shitty situation tomorrow, we'll have 3 people out of 8 remaining on whom we have basically nothing besides wifom info, in a lynch or lose situation, and we'll basically have to risk the game on (what currently looks like) infii heavenz or lonemeow. If it happens that the mafia is some combination which doesn't include any of them, then we've basically lost unless some blue comes in and saves the day. If we lynch myrzeth tonight,+ Show Spoiler + we're in a similar situation tomorrow, except minus one lurker, plus one posting person. Furthermore, he gets a chance to try and defend himself, (and remember theres at least a 20% chance that he's a blue role if he's town) and on the off chance he manages to convince you, we haven't killed someone just because they didn't get to defend themselves. Bereft is mafia. + Show Spoiler + Obviously if we lynch him tonight that's great, but if we lynch myrzeth tonight, we get into day3 with a target to go after, and one lurker gone. You get to grill him, we have potential blues come out with information and unless he somehow manages to convince you of his innocence, and our blues are useless, we should manage to find a mafia then. And this is all ignoring the fact that myrzeth is probably scum at this point. If there's a town based thought process behind the shit he's put us through I would love to hear it. But most annoying of all, you've come into the game, tunnelled onto who you think is mafia and ignored several of my posts which implicitly disagreed with lynching bereft tonight without him being here. I finally get your attention when i basically come out and imply that you and holyflare are acting scummy, and you're only comment is to call my reads shitty and say my logic is bad. This is a newbie mafia, I know I'm probably not the best at this game, but that doesn't mean I'm just going to follow you because you've played it more. I have no way of knowing you're not scum, and you've just come in, started a huge lynch train on bereft, and refused to respond to my points past blanket calling them stupid. ... | ||
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killerdog
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On September 09 2013 06:30 killerdog wrote: Alternate scenario then, we lynch myrzeth tonight, when he gets back you will have a ton of time to pressure the shit out of him, and if you still think he's mafia after that, lynch him. Myrzeth is mafia, it's a win, yay. We can basically do whatever you want tomorrow with impunity because the risk of mylo is gone. Myrzeth isn't mafia, then one of two things happens. Bereft isn't mafia. + Show Spoiler + If we lynch bereft tonight+ Show Spoiler + If he isn't mafia and we lynch him tonight, we're in a shitty situation tomorrow, we'll have 3 people out of 8 remaining on whom we have basically nothing besides wifom info, in a lynch or lose situation, and we'll basically have to risk the game on (what currently looks like) infii heavenz or lonemeow. If it happens that the mafia is some combination which doesn't include any of them, then we've basically lost unless some blue comes in and saves the day. If we lynch myrzeth tonight,+ Show Spoiler + we're in a similar situation tomorrow, except minus one lurker, plus one posting person. Furthermore, he gets a chance to try and defend himself, (and remember theres at least a 20% chance that he's a blue role if he's town) and on the off chance he manages to convince you, we haven't killed someone just because they didn't get to defend themselves. Bereft is mafia. + Show Spoiler + Obviously if we lynch him tonight that's great, but if we lynch myrzeth tonight, we get into day3 with a target to go after, and one lurker gone. You get to grill him, we have potential blues come out with information and unless he somehow manages to convince you of his innocence, and our blues are useless, we should manage to find a mafia then. And this is all ignoring the fact that myrzeth is probably scum at this point. If there's a town based thought process behind the shit he's put us through I would love to hear it. But most annoying of all, you've come into the game, tunnelled onto who you think is mafia and ignored several of my posts which implicitly disagreed with lynching bereft tonight without him being here. I finally get your attention when i basically come out and imply that you and holyflare are acting scummy, and you're only comment is to call my reads shitty and say my logic is bad. This is a newbie mafia, I know I'm probably not the best at this game, but that doesn't mean I'm just going to follow you because you've played it more. I have no way of knowing you're not scum, and you've just come in, started a huge lynch train on bereft, and refused to respond to my points past blanket calling them stupid. ... Not to mention pretty much all the people you've accused aren't even here to say a single word to defend themselves. I don't know if you over or underestimated how good i am at mafia if you expect me to follow with bereft at this point. But you haven't convinced me. | ||
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killerdog
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If you have some super watertight case against someone else then I might follow you, but with 25 minutes to go, and what feel like three different philosophies clashing. I'm gonna stick to my own reads. ##vote myrzeth | ||
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killerdog
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On September 09 2013 06:36 Umasi wrote: I'll go bonkers if we lynch killerdog, and I'm obv town. ##UNVOTE ##LONEMEOW At this point, my doubts about you aren't gone infii, but I think it's pretty obvious Lonemeow has been playing a different game than the rest of us for a while now. I see you're point, It's just when the town doesn't feel like it's working together, (right now for example) I don't want to go lynching someone who hasn't defended themselves. And he hasn't even responded to anything today. Besides Lonemeow hasn't voted yet, so he's gonna get modkilled if he doesn't show up in the next 20 minutes anyway. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 09 2013 06:42 infii wrote: I hear you but I'm rather reconsidering lynching you. So far me and Koshi would be down to lynch Umasi, anyone else? Fuck no, we're not starting a lynch train on the one person who almost everyone has felt was town all game in the last 15 minutes of a lynch timer, just because the guy who just appeared late day 2 and railroaded everything said he thought he was scummy. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 09 2013 06:43 Umasi wrote: he was present about twenty minutes ago oh crap, you're right. I hadn't f5'ed my tab which has his filter on since before that. Lone meow, if you're here please come and defend yourself NOW! | ||
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killerdog
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On September 09 2013 06:44 infii wrote: Don't know about you but I never thought he was town. I agree that he's not 100% town, noone is, but you can't disagree that he's been cited by quite a few people as being one of the townier people in the game. I agree that everyone should be under suspicion, I have my own suspicions of a few things he's done, and we can have this conversation when it's the right time and place. Early in the day and with time to thouroughly analyse any claims is the time for that. Not with 10 minutes to go on the lynch timer. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 09 2013 06:46 Koshi wrote: I don't call your post stupid. You contradict yourself. I point that out. btw. You have been in this game for 100 hours. And your only idea is to lynch a nullread? Which are the other 2 pesons you would like to lynch killerdog? I was orignally going to want to go on lonemeow and velocity tonight, but then velocity left, lonemeow hasn't been pressured at all. | ||
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##vote lonemeow Ok I'm not sticking on him when heavenz does that out of nowhere. This has all totally fallen apart but I'm throwing my eggs into you're basket for this lynch umasi, please be right. | ||
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killerdog
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On September 09 2013 06:54 LoneMeow wrote: I can consider consolidating. What do you think of Umasi? I asked you this in an earlier post, considering everything about this vote is screwed anyway, can you answer? heavenz [spoiler] As I said earlier, I'd very much like a clarification of his vote-post, which confuses me, and for him to join in the discussion. He has only posted twice day 2, once saying he's confused and once with philosophical thoughts of how myrzeth/koshi/velocity mafia basically screws us. | ||
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On September 09 2013 06:57 Bereft wrote: rationale: i've wanted LV gone this entire time. nothing has changed. koshi didn't replace LV, he replaced pharcyd3 | ||
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On September 09 2013 07:12 Holyflare wrote: this is game over why are we playing? 1. Umasi 2. Infii 3. heavenz 4. killerdog 6. Bereft 8. HolyFlare 11. LoneMeow are left, 3 are mafia so unless doctor saves someone it's game over tomorrow. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On September 09 2013 07:13 heavenz wrote: myrzeth gets modkilled for not voting? That was the one thing I didn't expect to happen tonight, although in retrospect we probably should have. fuck this game. T.T | ||
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If Q had saved someone last night, (not impossible, 1/7 chance basically) then it would have been 4 v 3 going into day 3. | ||
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On September 09 2013 07:34 Bereft wrote: no worries, shiaopi, they wouldve got me anyway. though i wish there'd been a reminder that people were getting modkilled. i'd totally forgotten about that. I was basing all my logic off the fact that pharcyd3 got away with a warning after he failed to vote, rather then a mod kill. So it didn't even occur to me that myrzeth would get modkilled for failing to vote once. Also I had very strong reads on umasi and heavenz, and was pretty sure lonemeow was the third, I just felt like if i said anything about it the chances of me dying that night were rather high. I remember while i was writing one of my earliest posts (this one i think) + Show Spoiler + On September 05 2013 03:48 killerdog wrote: ok here are my current reads/opinions on people. ... HolyFlare -Holyflare seems to be involved in everything, early on he was very much in control of the flow of debate, bringing up sleeping n1, then not being afraid of disagreeing with people. However once Blurry suggested sharing reads he pretty defensive/confrontational. Regardless of his orientation, to me he feels like a rather charismatic player who doesn't want to just scrape by being passive and answering questions, but rather wants to be one fo the people in the driving seat, and that might be why he reacted to blurry taking the initiative like he did. There were three people who stood out to me as pressuring him on his refusal to share reads. -Bereft, who seemed to be satisfied by holyflares response, -Blurry, most of blurry's posts seem to be things holyflare disagreed with, or vice versa -Umasi, who ended up going hard on holyflare. To be honest I'm having a hard time getting any kind of read off of him. He's stated that his style is "asking off the cuff questions about posts" to catch people off guard. Something he's been consistent in doing. He also didn't seem to change his posting style, or go super defensive when umasi voted for him. He's talking alot (most posts of anyone i think) and doing a good job asking questions but the way he reacted to being asked for reads was a bit dereailing and very uncooperative. He hasn't really given any evidence to prove himself town so far. He's talking a ton about the over all "metagame" of mafia, and a lot about mafia tactics in general but basically nothing relevant to this game itself. It takes more then asking other people questions to prove yourself a townie, and refusing to give any analysis on the other players at all, while still expecting people to answer all your questions is asking for a lot. Still very much on the fence about him and I'm starting to regret interrupting Usami when i did. ... I found myself about to write something like "Holyflare seems to feel that he's more important to the town then most other people, I'm getting either a mafia or a blue role read off him, but leaning strongly towards blue because of his activity/aggro" Then realised how stupid that was to post, and just noted it down in my notes. Almost really fucked up lol | ||
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killerdog
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On September 09 2013 07:45 Bereft wrote: yo good reads killerdog. i was moderately suspicious of you after your day 1 post, but after your posting during day 2 i was convinced you were town. I had no idea what i was doing at the start, it took me a while to realise that really big posts just get ignored :p I've just been trying random things all game to see what works. And I had you down as town as well, I don't have a list of reasons why but you were never really on my mafia radar during day two which is why I got a bit suspicious of koshi when he just kept hammering on you, Then I finally got his attention and he basically brushes me off, so I point out how I see his play so far, and then everything goes to hell Was fun though :p | ||
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On September 09 2013 08:01 Koshi wrote: Oh wow. Umasi is a little piece of shit as well. Shouldn't have read the scum QT. Yeah sorry I can't be 100% correct on my reads when I enter the game, I need some sort of conversation to see who is scum. Also funny Umasi keeps repeating I have him nailed as scum 'for the wrong reasons" while he doesn't even fucking know what the reasons are because I gave 0. It was simply his filter and our conversation that sat wrong with me. but w.e w.e w.e Holyflare just too good. Umasi best player TL mafia. gg lads. Fucking pieces of shit. You came into the game, and started tunnelling onto bereft, who at least I had down as townier then most, brush off or ignore any criticisms. I point out how it appears from my perspective and you basically call me bad at mafia then leave for 30 minutes. I'm not saying lynching you was wise, but can you not see how you came off? | ||
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killerdog
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On September 09 2013 07:52 Umasi wrote: it broke the flow of the game super hard, if I were town I would have tunneled him for it haha 'hi guys we should lynch probably fluff fluff fluff fluff' admittedly he kinda picked it up after that. I'm still really curious as to his reasons for switching votes n1. As i asked in the thread. On September 08 2013 14:08 killerdog wrote: Final thoughts, I still don't like heavenz dumping his vote at the last second. His reasoning in the thread was What does "I go safe" even mean, and how is putting your vote on myrzeth, guy who is currently at 2 votes compared to ray's 5, any less of a "waste" then leaving it on blurry. I'd love some clarification on that. If he's already mentioned it, apologies, but I couldn't see it on his filter. The only recent post he has basically feels like him saying he has no idea what's going on and apologising for it. (which also felt a bit wierd.) .... What did he mean by that? | ||
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On September 09 2013 08:10 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm very surprised killerdog was town, btw. I think you vastly overestimate how good I am at this game :p | ||
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