TL Mafia LXII: TL Noir

On September 20 2013 16:15 Foolishness wrote:
This game should be starting...

On September 21 2013 05:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Solstice you should start the game tonight with or without MZ :o

On September 21 2013 12:08 DarthPunk wrote:

And you want to be useless and Bad. Cool.

On September 22 2013 17:41 DarthPunk wrote:

Which games Have we played in together?

On September 22 2013 17:49 FirmTofu wrote:

Persona, of course! I was scum that game. I believe we killed you night 1.

I have read a fair number of games you have played in, particularly your day 1 play. There is a reason you are known to die NIGHT 1 in nearly every game you participate in. It's because you make scum scared. Scum fear you. You aren't scaring anyone this game. That's what I'm worried about.

On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT.

On September 22 2013 18:27 DarthPunk wrote:


So you are posting useless shit casting me in a scummy light and then are very clearly NOT calling me scum. What the fuck is it with bad players attacking me this game.

On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.

Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.

Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started?

On September 22 2013 18:50 DarthPunk wrote:


I find it odd that FT thought I was scummy for being defensive. And then when I am defensive towards him he thinks I am townie. There is a real inconsistency in his narrative IMO.

I think a scum Firm Tofu would ABSOLUTELY not want to get into it with me.

Further his originally thread summary was really really off. Actually I have had some thoughts. I may construct a longer post shortly about this if you'll give me some time.

On September 22 2013 18:51 FirmTofu wrote:

I know this isn't addressed to me, but I would like to take a moment to address it. I hope you don't mind.

As scum, I would use DP as a tool. I know DP is respected in this community and has the ability to sway lynches in his direction regardless of alignment. Assuming DP is town and I am scum, I would latch on to DP and win his trust. Then, I would exchange reads about other players and slowly convince him to vote whoever I wanted him to vote, essentially leading him astray.

As town, I am more interested in determining his alignment.

You can see which path I chose to take.

On September 22 2013 19:00 Mocsta wrote:

Yeah dunno.. your posting is really reading forced to me. That alone doesn't make you scum.

I can't follow the above though, regardless of forced/non-forced consciousness... its a lot of talk.
As scum I would manipulate player X to be my puppet.. etc etc
Very few scum players have that skillset to proactively choose a player to influence; most adapt to the situation as it unfolds. So the above reads as total bullshit to me.

On September 22 2013 19:00 DarthPunk wrote:


So, what you are saying is that you accused me falsely based on some really bad meta read. and this whole time it was, in fact, a ploy in order to read me better? is that it?

On September 22 2013 19:09 Mocsta wrote:
OK, lets make this relevant.

DP ?might? think VE is town.

What does FT think VE is?

On September 22 2013 19:13 Mocsta wrote:
OK, are you going to lay down a vote.
Or is there someone else scummier?

On September 23 2013 12:00 geript wrote:

So that's a no ok. Peace.

On September 23 2013 12:10 DarthPunk wrote:
Ok can we talk about the fact that geript is going to vig me stupidly? Like, I am quite annoyed about that.

On September 23 2013 14:29 WaveofShadow wrote:
Sorry for triple post.
I'll restate my original idea---if there are flaws in it please let me know.

Basically we come up with a list of targets that should be shot into tonight. If anyone dies outside of those targets we know they are scum kills. If scum chooses to fuck with us and shoot into our targets then they are doing our job for us.

The above may seem fairly obvious but with protects going out and 'lone gunmen' acting of their own accord it's possible that we may have different than the assumed number of scum NKs so we don't want any shots getting 'lost.'

On September 23 2013 14:42 WaveofShadow wrote:

Explain how.

On September 23 2013 14:48 Mocsta wrote:
Ft.

Have u read the whole game yet?

On September 23 2013 14:52 WaveofShadow wrote:

Have you ever played scum, FT?
Scum always know who they're going to kill. If I were scum this game, I know who I'd kill.
It's not going to be anyone on our list, because we wouldn't be shooting these people if they were useful members of the town. Scum wants to shoot useful members of the town.

EVEN IF we were somehow helping them by leading them towards good targets, we have an unknown number of protects. In fact, one could even argue that narrowing down their 'good shots' can be good for us because it forces them to shoot into a pool of people we will be protecting.

On September 23 2013 15:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well I intend to, but honestly I'm afraid I'm going to get lynched tomorrow and I really would rather town lynch scum. Obviously a vig shot would be better used on scum, but I think me dying to vig could be a net gain for town since the lynch is so much more important than NKs with regard to information gathering.

On September 21 2013 14:31 Zaragon wrote:
Not much to go on without wild speculation on people's meta connections and personalities.

From posting interval as it relates to content, I like Geript less. He was pushing a little too hard too fast for either pure pressure or getting anything out of his read if he had one, while still posting at methodical, relatively slow intervals.

He did get to DP to be able to read him very early but it feels mostly like pushing buttons and corresponding reactions to me. Barring any history of reckless responses as scum on DP's part for context, DP feels most likely town. Geript could possibly be scum with one overplayed line DP picked up on, then feeling like he was forced to keep going somewhat like he was. However, it's still more likely to be town on town to me so far.

On September 22 2013 00:25 Zaragon wrote:


My reasoning went more like this: from your position (as town) Pandain could be scum or town. If you had an itch about him based on his "..." and lack of posting, and if you had given it more time, he, as scum, would have had less opportunity to give an explanation or excuse. He might even have posted hours later and skipped past that point for his first post, and then would have read significantly more scummy, which you gave him an opportunity to avoid. Meaning that then you could be scum and him town. I'm not saying it makes me particularly suspicious of you now, especially given Pandain's reaction (or lack thereof) so far. Makes it understandable for you to call him out, since it tells me something about his play regardless of alignment.

About VE, I think if geript and DP are both town (which isn't at all a given) his play makes sense as scum, otherwise not, all I have on him besides that is the feeling about his posting I described earlier. If people who have played with him before are comfortable with his posting pattern and emotional level, that means it's probably nothing.

On September 22 2013 19:36 Zaragon wrote:
I don't read either Tofu or DP as scum right now. The problem with that is, they could both be, playing off each other, as it would be a good time for that. Still, I'm going to assume they're town for now since the other line of thinking is currently not useful. Especially since Tofu suspects VE, who I have had a bad feeling about all game.

I don't see any other reasoning for going after DP at this point as scum, I hope DP will elaborate about why he thinks there is.

Oh and from earlier:






It was a bedtime post. But I'm glad you made some kind of use of it, even if only Rayn comes out looking slightly scum from it, to me. Rayn, would you say that your posts have generally had more substance than the one you pointed out? If we assume that asking what someone else thinks is not substance.

On September 23 2013 19:43 Koshi wrote:

Rayn, scum or nay?

On September 23 2013 19:46 marvellosity wrote:
Thing is, Firm, Zaragon *could* be mafia (I don't have a strong townread on him or anything), but:

The parenthetical aside isn't something town would do. Town is more likely to believe their actions even to the point of fault. Only scum uses fallback options to justify their actions.

This is simply untrue. I do this kinda thing as town pretty regularly.

On September 23 2013 19:50 marvellosity wrote:


This is not the point I was making.

The point I was making is that your entire case is built on a premise that I think is basically false.

On September 23 2013 19:58 marvellosity wrote:


Yes, but you have no evidence to support your theory being true either.

Therefore "you cannot singlehandedly assert that your heuristic is correct with only the evidence of you saying so."

I'd rather say town, especially on day 1, are much more likely to think in either/or terms because it'll be the time townies are most unsure of their reads.

On September 23 2013 20:00 geript wrote:
Ok. See you hon keys after the test.

Tofu. I want an explanation of how you gave me a townread but completely missed all my vig claims.

On September 23 2013 20:03 DarthPunk wrote:


Where are you're decent reads. This post is just a rehashing of the previous conversation in the thread about vig shots and lurkers. Basically mirroring exactly what was said.

On September 23 2013 20:05 geript wrote:

So you just chose to give me a townread after skipping most of my posts? Where's the sense in that?

On September 24 2013 07:23 marvellosity wrote:


Firm, you claimed before you have "real reads"

was it just Zaragon or was there other shit?

On September 24 2013 07:30 marvellosity wrote:
Firm, I'd really like that stuff BEFORE you do whatever you're doing now, darling.

On September 24 2013 07:39 marvellosity wrote:
Really Firm I just want an insight into your thought process.

You clearly spent some time on a game, you caught up, and you had opinions on vig lists.

Being wrong isn't a sin, otherwise string me up for lynching a cop. But if I know what and why you're thinking (and the rest of the thread too) that's obviously helpful.

Doesn't have to be massively indepth, just like some cliffnotes.

On September 23 2013 09:20 Koshi wrote:
Going to vote FT. Thread sentiment and all.
Don't want to lynch the kitten. He said that he read all the filters many times but got demotivated. Meh, can't believe he is going to flip scum. Scum QT would have guided him, doesn't feel like he is being guided. While he would be the person that searches for help there.

So FT seems like a good bet. Didn't do shit.


PS: Please don't lynch me. I promise I am town. pinky swear.

On September 24 2013 08:07 Pandain wrote:
Anyone else getting the idea that Firmtofu is scum trying to save legitimacy?

Plus this before


So he's caught up, but doesn't want to share any initial impressions? He's afraid of sharing his opinions, which is suspicious.

Reverts to his reads yesterday?

Critizices geript(btw does anyone think he's not town I was writing a good case for why he's a solid town read in my eyes but don't want to post it if it's useless.) for having 5 pages of filter when he only has 3. Aka his playing mindset to him is less than he expects in Gertrip. Usually normal analysis you base how you read others on your own play.

Bad posts are different from weak posts.

On September 24 2013 08:30 marvellosity wrote:


Without being offensive, he's a significantly more experienced and stronger player than you, which alters the read.

On September 24 2013 11:42 Umasi wrote:
FT what do you think of sentinel?

On September 22 2013 05:52 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Back from work as promised.

Things I know:

People who have not contributed - some might be lurking, others may have forgotten they signed up for this game:
gumshoe
Chairman Ray
Cephiro
Xzavier
Onegu
Zenatsu
Risen
iamp said he wanted to be replacement, what happened to that?

Meapak_Ziphh - should really consider linking the filters in the list of signups. It's hard to bring up a bunch of filters when you have to manually type in the URL.

Stutters695 - Stutters, like myself, doesn't like kush in this game. I'm actually curious as to why kush suddenly engages actively in the thread, and I agree with the fact that he's being thread police instead of being productive in the townfinding effort. What I don't like is how hard Stutters is tunneling kush. Every post in his filter at the time of this post is directed at lynching kush, or begging others to join the bandwagon, and nothing else. I would like to see what you think of other players Stutters.

Coagulation - still completely fucking useless. Other than his "summary of today", which doesn't contribute anything to scumhunting and doesn't even summarize much, he has nothing.

Here are his accusations:





I would like to see some good evidence for lynching either pandain or geript. The marv thing isn't really an accusation since he's kinda warming up to him and accusing him with some of the least imposing language possible. So three accusations with zero bite, plus a summary, means he might as well have been lurking. Actually it's worse because when you lurk you may have an excuse, whether legit or not. Coag's been reading and posting and still has nothing to say.

##Vote Coagulation

On September 22 2013 10:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:


Read it.

Alright you win.

##unvote
vote: Stutters695

On September 22 2013 23:54 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I think despite Umasi's allegations to the contrary, he's been contributing nothing of value. After LoneMeow leaves he decides that since he can't get anymore fuel, he'll unvote. And then really all he talks about is people who aren't scummy looking.

I'm switching from Stutters to him because at least with Umasi, if he does end up flipping red then his filter becomes more useful than Stutters who just pushed kush all day. Since apparently pressuring him isn't working and he's lurking harder than ever. We could vig stutters though.

I don't like yamato's big post either. He calls DP mafia, rayn scummy, and then quotes Ray's fluffpost and says HE'S THE SCUM. And he's really got nothing else to show, especially afterwards he doesn't rationalize anything. I'm leaning red on him. Umasi seems more red to me but yamato has more to show for further analysis if he flips red.

But I'll keep my vote on Umasi for now.

##Unvote
##Vote: Umasi

Otherwise, out of the filter dives I want to say something about WoS but I can't quite put my finger on it. Perhaps I'll say something about him and also Koshi when I get back.

On September 24 2013 16:22 ObviousOne wrote:
Okay that was a pain in the ass to round up but two decent games for each of scum and town. I'll do something with them later. Probably.

Bluelightz Mafia "The Attack" - town
Sicilian Style Mafia - town
Persona 4 - mafia
Titanic Mini - mafia

Only major thing I see from speeding through is that he likes to repeat that he is not scum when he is scum. And I do recall he has said that here. Is it a mafia tell for Tofu? Fuck knows.

On September 24 2013 18:27 Pandain wrote:

Like what.
How did it feel like a townie response?
I assume you mean Marv convinced you your argument was flawed?

On September 24 2013 11:16 Zaragon wrote:
Ugh that tells us next to nothing I can see.

With an FT shot, either way he flipped he would have yielded tons of information. Red: Rayn would be confirmed scum to me. Sentinel, pretty much confirmed. Geript a lot more suspect, for all intents and purposes confirmed. Kush a lot more suspect. And anyone who deflected from an FT shot would be suspicious--they are slightly now, for that matter.

Some Mocsta and LoneMeow voters would get a lot more alignment-indicative. And we'd basically have four confirmed town who voted FT besides Chairman Ray.

Green: the playing field would be a lot more open, but it would make a lot of other people read townier than they are (yes, I'd look significantly scummier, I wanted to take that risk)

That's just off the top of my head

What does this tell us? Do we just hope that the next 48 hours doesn't let us convince ourselves to get out of an FT lynch?

On September 25 2013 05:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
First read:

FirmTofu's case on Zaragon seems to be more concerned about saving his own ass - he even mentions it in the opening - which makes his case look more motivated to post some sort of read for the sake of posting reads. The parenthetical aside part of his argument, like marv before me mentioned, is actually mistaken by itself. So there goes the integrity of that read.

I'm not going to rehash marv's arguments over there, but it ends with FT defending his stance on towns being committed to their reads - marv claims the opposite with towns not being 100% sure who is scum. What is important here is that in FT's mind, townie players need to commit to their reads. I don't know if it was his intention, but this post heavily implied he was one of the players who as town commits to their reads: post


Switches to me.

Pandain calls him out on it, with the post asking if Marv convinced FT of his argument. So FT contends that Zaragon is his top read (although it is shit, and he says so) and keeps his vote on it.

Bracketing this for a second, here is the interesting bit.

Now what his read on me is is all the stuff I've done earlygame. He claims that we were looking for vig targes - were we? I'm pretty sure the beginning of Day 1 we hadn't found anyone to vig yet. Anyways, he brings up my weak Coag vote, my switches onto Stutters and Umasi, and brings up arguments that can be considered somewhat valid. Until he brings up yamato:



Final sentence is true. First two are not. I voted for Yamato when he had only two posts of considerable length, and the second one made him look like a scumfuk. I think I even justified the vote earlier in the thread. At this point I thought Chairman Ray was town and yamato was isolating him for an easy lynch - and FirmTofu completely waves away the detailed thought process I laid out on why I switched from my townread on Chairman to being the final nail in his coffin. "Seems sketchy at best. I can vote this guy." That's all the rationale he gives.

So in summary, FT's current two reads, say what you will about their targets, are both heavily flawed. His number one read, which he acknowledged had holes in it to Pandain, is still his number one read at the time of this posting. That's incredibly scummy to me - instead of finding the best proof he can, he just latches on whatever reads he can find without regard for their solidity.

On September 25 2013 06:03 VisceraEyes wrote:

geript claimed he was lying about having a shot. Keep up sir.

On September 23 2013 03:02 Umasi wrote:


Because I think he's town. Chairmans just pretty good lynchbait
he certainly was last game, and his play so far has evoked an identical feel.

on another note, find it annoying how you're like 'umasi hasn't talked enough about the important things in the thread' and then ask me about two one liners.
kinda wacky, but I have a town read on you.

idk about FT, slightly scummy for me, because of how contrived his pressure on DP felt for a silly reason

thank god your thoughts on me basically are 'if he's red, man we have some things to go on' and 'he hasn't talked about important things!'
Lynching for information is something I'm a firm disbeliever of, I think it's frequently a scum tool
fwiw, I told you guys I'd respond to questions you had for me (and the only one I've seen is mocsta's)
mocsta kinda grouped us together as non-contributing-flying-under-the-radar dudes iirc, so you suddenly voting me with THAT shit reasoning is why I'm voting you, because it feels you're like 'quick target the other dude who's in a similar position to me'


also there's a vote thread, use it

##vote sentinel

On September 23 2013 04:10 Umasi wrote:
annoying thing is I don't feel that strongly about the sentinel lynch, just stronger than other lynches that have been tossed around.
kinda want to see what people think though

On September 23 2013 10:57 Umasi wrote:
sentinel vote for justice!
do it do it do it

On September 23 2013 10:59 Umasi wrote:
no I mean people should vote sentinel for justice :|

On September 25 2013 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
Hey Firm.

Here's a few names

Umasi
Zaragron (i know you've talked about him before today)
justanothertownie
kush

Who's scummiest out of this lot and why? Do you think there are mafia in this list, if so how many?

On September 25 2013 06:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Fair enough Sentinel.

FT quick question, what is your read on VE? What was your read on VE on D1? A couple of words is enough.

On September 25 2013 06:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marv direct me. I'm too busy with work to reread the whole thread right now, but I can filter and give thoughts. Help me help you find scum.

On September 25 2013 06:32 marvellosity wrote:
Well I listed those 4 names because they're the murky middle as far as I'm concerned.

In a couple of hours when I'm home they're who I plan to spend some time on.

For the 3 non-kush names, they were all posters who 'felt' ok to me during Day 1, yet I couldn't really remember them. kush is being unusually passive. And I'm not seeing things I consider towntells from him.

On September 25 2013 06:34 VisceraEyes wrote:

I filtered you earlier and didn't like what I read. Feel free to filter me to get an idea of why.

On September 25 2013 06:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Interesting. Because Sentinel brought up a very good point. This is what you said about him:

The bolded part. How can you bring this up against him on D2? This happened on D1, there were a lot of players suspicious of yamato at that time. Sentinel in fact did bring up his suspicions on yamato earlier on in his posts. Why do you never bring up VE as scummy on D1? Because to me this looks like that you have picked up a player and then start finding out reasons why he is scum.

What exactly are VE's "extremely strong" contributions after D1? I feel like his contributions have been even more weak than on D1...

On September 22 2013 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
I might regret this, but does anyone have any like...previous games of Lone's I can peruse?

On September 22 2013 07:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
Just names would suffice - I'm not above doing the legwork. I just am not familiar with his typical play. I'm hung up right now because his tenacity on the Pandain vote reads kinda more townie than scummy in a vacuum...but his refusal to comment on like anything else is very troubling to me.

On September 22 2013 07:12 VisceraEyes wrote:

Just the one then? Or will the previous few have him in them?

On September 22 2013 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well he seemed WAY more involved in the discussion in that game than he is in this game. That's....really odd. Marvy baby what do you make of that?

On September 25 2013 07:02 Umasi wrote:


quickly responding, almost finished the write-up but am addressing this now
why is my confidence in my reads diminishing scummy, and why would I push sentinel near the deadline if I knew you two were town? That would imply Sentinel is ALSO town, so what would the purpose of me doing that be?
And if both were town, why would I want to change my vote to go onto one of them, if sentinel (the third frontrunner iirc) was who I was currently on? This is operating the assumption that all three of the lynch candidates are town, btw.
Why is me not taking a stance on Chair or you at that time scummy?

~and even so, I was pretty clear with my stance on Chair, I say in pretty explicit terms I thought he was town. Mocsta asked me about it, in that post you quoted. But it's not like I could come up with a convincing defense for him, because he constantly signed his own death warrant with the way he was posting. And if I can't actually convince myself that he's town using logic, I probably shouldn't try defending him at all.

What else makes me scum, or is it solely not being on either of the two wagons at the time of lynch?

/semi afk again

On September 25 2013 07:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I just spent a half an hour onto something i thought proves someone is scum when in fact that was a big pile of nothing and that could have been a non-issue in the first place. I'm gonna go to bed..

On September 25 2013 07:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:

No i am saying your reasons for thinking VE is town are extremely weak and your posts from N1 don't indicate you thought VE is town and now you are saying you thought he was town on N1.

That's my point.

On September 25 2013 07:46 Umasi wrote:
The issue is not that you backed down on Sentinel. It's that you were suddenly back on Sentinel afterwards even though you had previously backed off. What caused this unnatural shift? I'm also not operating on any assumptions. I know both lynch candidates were town(Me and Ray). I don't know Sentinel's alignment, so that is the only variable here.

The purpose of you voting sentinel is so that you aren't subject to being scrutinized for your stance on the lynch. Sentinel's alignment doesn't really matter here. You know Sentinel isn't going to get lynched so you don't have to worry about the repercussions of his flip. You could be bussing your teammate or just putting your vote on town. Doesn't make much of a difference

On September 25 2013 07:54 FirmTofu wrote:
Snipping your quote.

I'm not saying you should've switched onto me. I'm saying if you were backing off of Sentinel, why didn't you start looking for other targets? You sounded pretty convinced by Rayn that Sentinel didn't have a strong chance of flipping scum. Shouldn't you have started looking for other targets?

Why didn't you talk more about Ray and why he isn't a good lynch? Why didn't you comment at all on the wagon on me. There are so many things I would've expected a townie to do in your position that you did not do.

On September 25 2013 08:00 Umasi wrote:
ebwop: because of formatting

At what point did I make seem like Rayn convinced me Sentinel was town? I don't even think that he was defending Sentinel, just asking me to clarify what I was saying.

I have to go to class, will be back in a few hours.

On September 23 2013 04:10 Umasi wrote:
annoying thing is I don't feel that strongly about the sentinel lynch, just stronger than other lynches that have been tossed around.
kinda want to see what people think though

On September 25 2013 16:38 Mocsta wrote:
Thnx for the list.

I agree with a couple on ya tier1

Can u give some comment to what transpired with mattychew defense.

On September 25 2013 17:20 Mocsta wrote:
So u were comfortable with how he diffused the case? Is that correct firmtofu?

And did u think the marv content was relevant to this game. Or just generic spiel around marv in his prime?

On September 25 2013 17:50 geript wrote:
Actually moment of insight. Tofu is scum. I'll explain in the morning.

On September 25 2013 17:51 Mocsta wrote:
Tofu.

I got what u said the first time.

I'm saying. I think the only way town would fail to address the case is if they gave up. If that was the case, we would have a completely different post from Matt or any town for that matter.

Scum do things for many reasons. Sometimes we can't understand it until post game .

All I'm saying is. If Matt chew could break down the case without resorting to discrediting. He would...

But thanks for responding anyways. U do understand where u r coming from. I am just of a different opinion on how to interpret

On September 26 2013 06:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv should i vote for ceph?

On September 26 2013 06:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because i don't really give a fuck atm. This happens every time and tbh today i'm in bad mood for playing mafia.

On September 25 2013 15:36 geript wrote:
Ok so here's where my mind's at. The night kills were super odd in many ways. I'm assuming that the NKs were Yam/BH/Wos; we could make an interesting argument that BH/VA/WoS were the shots and that Coag is actually scum, but I see very little reason to do so there. Yam/BH/WoS isn't awful I guess. but with both VE and Marv in a game I'd fully expect if both of them were town that both of them would be targeted as it's unlikely that both would be medic'd. In the very least I'd expect a doublestack on one of them and then a freebie shot at BH.

Here's the problem that I'm seeing: town got into a shitty place on D1 which is amazing for scum (yes part of that is my fault) and the best priority for scum in this type of situation is to do their best to keep it that way. So the highest priority for scum is not to remove blues but rather to remove people who can bring the thread on track. WoS is ignored half the time despite being a decent player. Yam can bring a thread on track but just as often derail a thread into "No You're scum" posting. Vayne (if he was a scum shot) is intentionally worthless until endgame.

Rather my priority as scum would be to remove active quality players of which the available shots would be: VE, Marv, DP (prior to rage quit), Mocsta, Rayn and a few others. So what's the point in shooting WoS or Yam/Vayne over any of those five. I'm honestly not seeing it. There's a shit ton of scum (6); there's an amazing KP rate (1/2 round up), town seems to be mostly inactive. Where's any sort of benefit of not trying to remove the "get on track" type people to keep the thread in a clusterfucked situation?

I've only seen odd kills like this in two drastically different situations: mostly inactive scum where NKs going through is far more important than anything else and mostly active experienced scum where they need a bit of time to hide before it becomes obvious. I'm not sure that Mattchew is right about Marv, but I really think that we should be taking hard looks at Marv/VE/etc. again because I'd bet that a number of the "pro scummers" are scum.

On August 28 2013 02:55 FirmTofu wrote:
Are scum controlling the thread right now? Why are people not even discussing the flip?

Rayn flipped suspicious citizen. Rayn is SAME with Koshi, so Koshi is either scum or SAM. The NK narrows down a ton of possibilities.

So this begs the question, why was rayn killed? Plenty of people were suspicious of rayn; namely Vayne, sn0, and Koshi. Rayn's death revealed a ton of information that town can use to figure out this game. Rayn kill does NOT make sense based on the information we have at hand.

The only remaining possibility is if rayn was pushing a lynch on scum. Enter Sn0. Towards the end of the previous day, Sn0 was being heavily pressured by Rayn. Rayn vowed to push a lynch on Sn0, and lo and behold, he dies at night. Sn0 has been obvious scum the entire game and no one is pressuring him like they should be except Rayn and I.

If we can't consolidate our votes on Sn0, we lose.
##vote: Sn0_man

On September 25 2013 17:50 geript wrote:
Actually moment of insight. Tofu is scum. I'll explain in the morning.

On September 26 2013 17:25 ObviousOne wrote:
@Firm where you at on sentinel? I'm in your filter and there's a case in here with his name at the top (haven't read it yet, wanted to get this in here in case you're still reading) but an update would be good.

On September 27 2013 12:50 Mocsta wrote:

Hypocrite...

Anyways when you are back
I would like to hear your opinion on cephiro and stutters

On September 27 2013 13:28 geript wrote:

STAHP!!!!!! Risen is scum. Read from end of night up to now.

On September 27 2013 13:46 geript wrote:
FT coag is a vig. He claimed shot vs Vayne and we have 3 confirmed a aka night 1. Read the fucking thread or get mod killed.

On September 27 2013 14:01 iamperfection wrote:

op is useful

On September 27 2013 14:04 iamperfection wrote:
if we just lynched ass holes we would never win a game. grepit was basically asking for a vig shot yesterday that isn't likely to come from scum.

unfortunately.

On September 27 2013 13:43 Mocsta wrote:
So ve
The best you can produce for this game is what boils down to a policy lynch

Even though you don't have time to find scum for genuine reasons, you had time to manufacture that case.

Did you want to be my next stream of consciousness?

On September 27 2013 14:11 Mocsta wrote:

??

OP states roles for scum limited to rb, framer, gf

There is only 1 rb confirmation.

Vig is a town role.


Pls stop spamming

On September 27 2013 10:59 iamperfection wrote:
Umasi- Still like the point that firm brought up and he really hasn't talked about the game much. some of the things he talked about regarding sent seem weird i guess? Like i don't really understand the point he is trying to make but he seems just as confused as me so hey maybe he is town.

On September 28 2013 14:48 ObviousOne wrote:
FirmTits you coming back?

On October 01 2013 13:09 Mocsta wrote:

Are u going to mount a defense against kita case?

On October 01 2013 13:21 Mocsta wrote:
That's a smooth line.

I thought kita points were far from general and pertained directly to motive and mindset.

I look forward to your retort to the case.

On October 01 2013 10:49 kitaman27 wrote:


As I mentioned earlier, WaveofShadow, Zaragon, Umasi, and Mattchew all mentioned FT as one of their mafia suspects before their deaths. All three players that died last night wanted to kill him. These kills were strange enough that I think it is likely that they were picked out for their reads.

On day one, FT is clearly around and reading the thread at the start of the game, yet he fails to provide a lynch candidate. He appears to be afk towards the end of the day and never votes, so I'll chalk this up as a null tell.



Once night two starts, he comes out with the trademark "large post that says absolutely nothing". Apparently addressing the vig situation really means "I'm going to list 10 different players you could consider shooting based on activity". It really shouldn't taken this much time for him to essentially tell us that he is fine with a third of the game getting shot. He later posts his read on Zaragon and tells the vig to shoot him. If this was his scum read, then why did he just spend the last fifteen minutes with his list post?

Throughout the game, he produces several half-hearted cases against players, but he never actually goes after his targets. There is a limited amount of interaction with the players he suspects. A lot of the time, he asks others to ask him questions, rather than contribution on topics that he finds important on his own.



This post is a really generic soft defend. He doesn't want to commit to a town read on Ceph, so he states that he is fine with a vig shot, yet wouldn't lynch him. This allows him to vote elsewhere later on in the cycle.



This is the scummiest post in his filter. I'm lost count of the number of times a scum player shows up after the lynch only to yell at town for something they showed no interest in preventing. He criticizes town for the LoneMeow lynch. The problem? He hasn't defended LoneMeow all game. He voted Umasi, a player who had no chance of getting lynched and essentially went afk again when the lynch was being decided. I gave him a pass for doing it on day one, but this is now two days in a row where he has displayed his apathy for the lynch.

When he performs his post lynch analysis, he still never acknowledges that cephiro is scum. So if he is frustrated about town going "full retard", how could he think it was a terrible lynch if the alternative wasn't incredibly scummy in his opinion?



On day three, he votes geript, but makes this post about Cephiro. Who exactly is he trying to convince? The vote is clearly going to be a blow out. Despite not being able to see scum motivation from Mocsta, he has a revelation post flip and notices the connection. Is this honestly something that he wouldn't consider beforehand?

There is a pretty apologetic theme from most of his posts and there are several points where he seems more interested in defending himself or making himself look good with unnaturally worded posts, rather than pushing his prefered mafia lynch. I'm not sure if there is anyone in this game that actually has a town read on FT, which generally points to mafia.

##Vote: FirmTofu

On October 01 2013 13:58 Mocsta wrote:
And ft

In your opinion. Is kitamin misguided town using heuristics or scum looking to mislynch off "generalities"

On October 01 2013 13:45 Mocsta wrote:
Interesting

I'm going to have to give this some thought.

Ft
Please comment in cc cop claim
And
Risen

On October 01 2013 16:19 Pandain wrote:
Firm are you still reading?

On October 01 2013 14:52 Mocsta wrote:
FirmTofu

(1)


(2)



What changed?

On October 01 2013 17:47 Koshi wrote:
Scum mocsta so tryhard.
##unvote
##vote FirmTofu

On October 01 2013 06:08 Koshi wrote:
Summary last games FT:

Titanic: Pretty good play by FT. Good filter/good everything. Scum
GoT. 2 page filter with pregame banter. Town.
Persona: FT didn't bother too much. But it was okish. Decent filter. Scum
Desert: Didn't follow it closely but it was really bad right? he had 1 page filter. Town

Seems like more tryhard as scum. 8 pages here.
Remember how I told you rayn voted CR without good reasoning over FT?

Yeah...

On October 02 2013 03:16 justanothertownie wrote:

Good point. Who do you want to lynch or are you gonna waste your vote again?

On October 02 2013 03:18 kitaman27 wrote:
FT, do you still think iamp "must be scum"?

On October 02 2013 03:19 kitaman27 wrote:


Do you actually plan on convincing others or will you vote on your own island again? I'm kinda tempted to move back now if we have to go through this again -_-

On October 02 2013 04:20 Risen wrote:

Wtf are YOU doing with your vote? What the hell is wrong with you?

On October 02 2013 04:21 Koshi wrote:

Because you are scum with rayn, Moscsta, Risen and iamp.