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We need 7 votes to lynch on day 2.
During N1 the following people all but confirmed that they would vote for me D2 and nothing would change their minds:
Koshi
Malongo
JAT
Towards the end of N2 the following people changed their read one me to scum, even they they have not scum-hunted in my direction much throughout the whole game:
Rayn
Vayne
Clarity
Exar (to a lesser extent)
Those 4 people positioned themselves nicely so that they could vote for me without looking like scum. I was totally being set up for a D2 lynch. What we do not know is why. Was it forced or did it happen naturally?
Also notice that Vivax, Stutters and to a lesser extent Tofu and Oats were positioned so that they could not easily vote on me, and would at least have to do some work first. CJS was basically inactive.
Day 2 starts and I claim Vet. Scum have to decide whether they can lynch me anyway or not, and the answer very much depends on who the scum team are. For example, they were never going to get a vote from town-Rayn or town-Clarity, but they could get a vote from them if they were scum.
Then Vayne fake claims Cop. Was that a move my scum-Vayne as a response to my Vet claim? That would only be true if scum were seriously in trouble without my lynch on the table. I do not see a scum composition that includes Vayne and that would be in so much trouble D2 they they would need to pull that. Scum are only 1 mislynch from MYLO anyway and they know not to shoot the Vet.
Another reason as to why Vayne is town is because people are not calling him scum. Let me explain: if Vayne is scum then he pulled that move to setup a mislynch other than me. Therefore, he must of purposefully be waiting for someone to “Slip-up” so that he could un-claim and call that person scum. He did that when JAT posted. The fact that is was JAT would have been a bonus for scum-Vayne because several town already thought that JAT was scum. Next question: Why are the people not voting JAT also not attacking Vayne? If you think that JAT is town then you should absolutely think that Vayne is scum who was waiting to replace me as a mislynch target.
What we have instead is Oats calling Malongo scum even though Malongo's response to the claim fits perfectly with his personality. I have been told that Oats is not bad at this game, so if he thinks that JAT is town then he should have been after Vayne (or at least Rayn) who setup JAT, rather than going after Malongo. Also, Oats thinks that Stutters is scum when Stutters is absolutely the most town person in the thread (based on posts before and after the day post) and Stutters is in fact the most obvious NK target anyway.
As for JAT himself, why he still attacking me? From his position he should of questions why Vayne would fake-claim like that and came to the conclusion that Vayne would only do that if I were town. It is as if Jat was told to attack me and did not receive new orders so he just continued to do so.
Clarity is a weird one. It was really scummy the way his end of night post called Stutters and me scum. That put Clarity in a position where he could easily vote for either of us and at the time it looked like I was being setup for a mislynch and that I thought Stutters was scum and would be willing to vote for him D2. Also consider that Clarity was an odd RB target. The only reason to RB Clarity was to make him look more like scum after Vivax flipped. If Clarity is town then he should be questioning which scum would if pulled that move. Clarity defended my Vet claim which obviously gets him some town points in my eyes. On the other hand, if Clarity is town then I would expect him to go hard after Vayne (more likely RB target). This holds more true considering the list at the start of this post because Clarity and Vayne were both positioning themselves to drop an easy vote on me.
If you want to find scum, look at the lists at the start of this post. If you are on one of those lists and know that you are town then you should be able to figure out who the most likely scum are.
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I just said that I was going for XRZ today and not you hzflank D:
But we can go Oats as well.
You say which one. I follow.
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On July 30 2013 21:31 Koshi wrote:
I just said that I was going for XRZ today and not you hzflank D:
But we can go Oats as well.
You say which one. I follow.
Bollocks. You said that my Vet claim did not make me town after you have tunneled me all game. Even if you want Exar lynched you still think that I am scum. Why do you want to sheep scum?
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Like I said, Oats or XRZ my man, tell me which one and I follow. Pick correctly and I will remove 1 name off my scumlist.
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On July 30 2013 21:35 Koshi wrote:
Like I said, Oats or XRZ my man, tell me which one and I follow. Pick correctly and I will remove 1 name off my scumlist.
Firstly, I really do not care as to whether or not I am on your scum list.
Secondly, if you are town then you were almost the scum team MVP this game. Your entire game plan just made things easier for scum. Even now all you are doing is making yourself look like scum.
Lastly, I will consider all possible options before the end of the day, not just two of them.
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How does Malongo's personality make a fucking difference?
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I also dont understand this setup shit. Way too complex man.
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Hzflank, explain how stutters is town please.
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Stutters is in fact the most obvious NK target anyway.
Are you high?
Stutters is like the 7th highest nk target.................
Believe me, if stutters isnt scum, the scum team isnt about to shoot him.
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On July 30 2013 21:43 Oatsmaster wrote:Are you high? Stutters is like the 7th highest nk target................. Believe me, if stutters isnt scum, the scum team isnt about to shoot him.
On July 30 2013 06:37 Stutters695 wrote:Alright so this is what I'm thinking. Because I'm phone posting use this page of FTs filter for reference I'll be referring to then by numbers(post 4 is the list, if Paper flips green #5 etc) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720&user=FirmTofu¤tpage=5First, everything before the deadline time is pretty much discussed to death. If needed/requested I can show people why that's scummy but I don't really think it's necessary. Anyway post #5 is where I'm starting. This post originally stood out to me because it looked like a scum slip (saying they were town and I misread it out of context of the quote because of how hectic it was). Not quite as damning as I thought, but after seeing Paper's flip, this is bad. Scum tofu knows Paper is going to flip green and his only other reads are on huge lynchbait+ myself. This gives him an out to avoid only pushing the easy cases scum love so much. Yes I'm aware this section is based off of the assumption he is scum, but here is what planted that thought. Read post 4, 6, and 10. Of his three scum reads in post 4 & 6 (other than paper), suddenly none of them are scum. Two of them I addressed why above but the most damming IMO is how he drops me from his scum reads for no explained reason. I was scum because I "popped in to vote me(tofu)". Now look at his new XRZ, Rayn, and Hz reads. He dropped a read with justification(albeit wrong) on me and replaced that with "reads" that say they've been playing town but he's going to look into them and they're slightly scummy. That is not town hunting scum. That's someone telling the thread what they want to hear to push his own agenda.
On July 30 2013 07:58 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 07:30 Vivax wrote:
More specifically, do you think that the point mentioned could have come from a scum stutters? Sorry for the delay, that question requires better analysis than I am capable of right now :p First I will answer an easier question: I think that could totally have come from a town Stutters. If you look at it in thread then Stutters already had a scum-read growing on Tofu when Tofu posted the list then and then Stutters flipped out thinking that Tofu was definitely scum. Considering how things unfolded it does make sense for town-Stutters to bring this up now. As for that coming from Scum-Stutters... It could, but it is not likely. It's still only one post and a single post can be faked. Going over that post thoroughly is making me doubt that Stutters is scum though. It looks so so much like Stutters made that post from a town point of view. I need to think about this more, but I would definitely not want to kill Stutters right now.
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On July 30 2013 21:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
How does Malongo's personality make a fucking difference?
Because your entire point against Malongo revolves around his reaction to the cop claim. Based on Malongo's personality, his reaction to the cop claim is exactly what he would do if he were town.
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So he made a case on ft. Tell me how that makes him town and not scum.
Explain the town reasons.
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On July 30 2013 21:48 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
How does Malongo's personality make a fucking difference? Because your entire point against Malongo revolves around his reaction to the cop claim. Based on Malongo's personality, his reaction to the cop claim is exactly what he would do if he were town.
what is his personality exactly?
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I think Koshi was genuinely believing he had found scum in hzflank. That's why i think he is town. I also think hz is town because of his claim. vayne is town. I am also willing to believe Oats and Cora are town.
That leaves me with Clarity, Malongo, JAT, FT, XRZ and Stutters.
FT - XRZ; at least one pretty much has to be town for FT's attack on XRZ on D1. I am leaning on XRZ being scum for Vivax' case and XRZ's comments on Paperscraps' filter.
I am leaning on Stutters being town. But if JAT is in fact town, then Stutters pretty much gotta be scum. I don't like Stutters' buddying to me, and JAT's latest posts give me town vibes .
At the moment the scumteam looks like Clarity, XRZ, Malongo and one of Stutters/JAT.
##Unvote:
##Vote: exarezee
Because of Vivax' case on him and his over-commital -> non-commital stance on Paperscraps' filter diving. That made zero sense from him.
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hzflank is so smart. Too bad he is on the scumteam today. But as present to Oats. As this joke has served his purpose
My scumteam:
XRZ
hzflank
Oats
Confirmed town
Stutters
Malongo
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On July 30 2013 21:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
I also dont understand this setup shit. Way too complex man.
Scum want to position thenselves so that they can vote for town without implicating themselves. It is much easier to make sure of a mislynch if at least a couple of scum can get their vote on easily. Especially when they are 8 town, 4 scum and 7 needed to lynch.
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Oats makes a good point about Malongo. Why the fuck would you ask someone to vig you if you know the cop who claimed has to be lying? Although i don't see why he would say so as mafia either, but generally if it doesn't make sense either way then mafia.
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On July 30 2013 21:50 Koshi wrote:
hzflank is so smart. Too bad he is on the scumteam today. But as present to Oats. As this joke has served his purpose
My scumteam:
XRZ
hzflank
Oats
Confirmed town
Stutters
Malongo
Koshi don't be bad please. Reread what Oats said about Malongo. Hz's claim makes no sense from scum PoV, if there is a real vet he would have been cc'd and lynched.
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rayn, koshi too dumb to be town man. I have never ever seen him play like this.
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On July 30 2013 21:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
I also dont understand this setup shit. Way too complex man.
Scum want to position thenselves so that they can vote for town without implicating themselves. It is much easier to make sure of a mislynch if at least a couple of scum can get their vote on easily. Especially when they are 8 town, 4 scum and 7 needed to lynch.
A big part of your point against Malongo is that he does not properly understand Mafia yet. As you say if Malongo is town then he knows that Vayne is lying, so to Malongo the best way to prove it is to flip himself now so that Vayne can be lynched after.
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EPT
