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On July 29 2013 07:08 Malongo wrote:
A) When you said the guy was not answering you directly. hint: he did
Those are not answers. The first is him saying that he did not read the thread properly, which is absolutely useless to everyone involved.
On July 28 2013 18:25 Paperscraps wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 18:03 hzflank wrote:On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote:
hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground.
Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far.
Oats' read on me was almost the exact opposite of your read on me. You cannot say that you liked the still liked the reasoning for Oats' read on me because he reasoning was mostly not reading my filter properly and a little philosophical differences. Exactly which Oats reads and posts were great? What do you perceive Oats' 'comprehension of what is going on' to be? Maybe I am missing something, but reading through Oats' filter he doesn't push on you. He doesn't even directly call you scum. I am not sure what you are looking for here. I believe what he has said about you so far is decent. I really don't see how it contradicts my read. Stepping on toes = abrasive. Is your gripe with him calling you defensive?
On July 28 2013 18:29 Paperscraps wrote:
Oh well I misread that. Shouldn't be posting this late at night, haha. I disagree with Oats on that point.
The second is him refusing to answer my questions which again is useless.
On July 28 2013 18:31 Paperscraps wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 18:28 hzflank wrote:Also, you did not answer any of my other questions. On July 28 2013 18:03 hzflank wrote:
Exactly which Oats reads and posts were great? What do you perceive Oats' 'comprehension of what is going on' to be? I don't really plan on answering it either. I shouldn't have to go through another person's whole filter and outline what I think are good reads or insight. You can choose to agree or disagree. That is all that really matters.
Do you expect me to think that Paper is town after that? If I thought that Paper was town after that then you should be worried.
On July 29 2013 07:08 Malongo wrote:
B) When you said *how pleople find Paper townie posting. hint: null =/= townie
You said yourself that most people see Paper as null towards Townie. I think that most people should of seen paper as scummy. How exactly does that make me scum?
We can have the lurker discussion later in depth. If you want I am happy to go into my mafia game theory with you, but now is not the time.
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Malongo, I have not been focused on Paper all game. My vote has been on Paper all game but my attention has been on many people (hopefully everyone, although I did not engage everyone directly). There is plenty of evidence of me engaging people other than Paper.
Like everyone I may be naturally prone to tunneling which is why I actively try to avoid it. If you read my filter then you really should see this.
You seem to think I am scum because I lied but I do not think that I lied at all.
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On July 29 2013 07:24 Vivax wrote:Jesus fuck why can't we lynch JAT. This is a bit from PS which I find pretty townie. HZ actually used this as point AGAINST him, which was one of the points I found myself disagreeing with. The change of mind shit after rereading is something rather townie imho. Show nested quote +
Hey, do you still think exarezee is a good lynch for today? I am leaning town on him right now. If anything I think there are better lynches, such as Vivax or JAT. Also I think my initial read on hzflank was hasty, after re reading his filter I find him being a possible lynch choice as well.
Is my reasoning for using this against him bad? Read this post for some recent reasoning.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=40#786
To be specific, when reads change the important thing is for other people to be able to understand why a read changes from a town perspective. Can you see the reason why Paper's read changed?
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I do not want to take all the attention away from JAT because he does look like scum and I am aware than I am defending him by proxy. The problem that I have is that I don't know for sure which of you are town, so if I just easily change my vote to JAT then I may just be easily letting scum control my vote.
We really need JAT and Paper to start posting.
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On July 29 2013 07:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why is noone other than Clarity commenting my case on Koshi?
On July 29 2013 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
First he says "who are you to decide who do we lynch. -> Implies there are other lynch candidates than FT/JAT/Paper
With all due respect Rayn, I doubt that anyone has a solid town read on you at this point and therefore it is correct that Koshi should question this. Personally I did think that there was a fourth lynch candidate, which was Koshi.
On July 29 2013 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then he questions hz, his scumread about Malongo, or rather asks why are we ignoring Malongo.
When hz answers him about Malongo, he says "no you should not talk about him".
Koshi's whole game seems to be that he thinks I am scum but he cannot figure out how to get me lynched. He might of just thought that there was no point in me discussing it today as I was not going to be lynched anyway. To be honest, that is what I thought.
My take on Koshi is simple at this point. The only useful thing he has done all game is attempt to push a scum read on me. As I have said, his whole game revolves around him thinking that I am scum. If he genuinely believes that I am scum up until now then I can believe that he might be town. Because Koshi has done nothing that did not involve me, I cannot find any other reasons as to why I believe he is scum.
Conclusion: If Koshi really thinks that I am scum then I do not have a scum read on Koshi.
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On July 29 2013 07:46 Paperscraps wrote:It is a decent post, slightly biased through the lens of hzflank who already at that point scum reads me. You are seeing what you want to see in my posts. I could defend every point you made against me, but right now I don't think that would be beneficial since I am beginning to town read you again. We could go into the psychology of mafia and how people want to think their first choice is right, but really you should realize with all the flak I am getting from everyone right now, the chances of me flipping scum is very low. I am all alone here, this is day 1. Tofu made a pretty big shift in the recent pages, going from totally being against my lynch to voting me. I am not saying I don't have reasons to be voted with what everyone is throwing at me, but it doesn't seem like a natural shift at all. Where did his backbone go? Does he not scum read exarezee anymore? Is exarezee bussing me now? A closer look at Tofu right now would be great. @anyone How much time until the deadline?
The tone was intentionally biased, the content was not. The thing is that when I first voted on you it was a gamble and I have no reason to care whether or not my initial vote was correct or not. Even I am not arrogant enough to expect to find scum at such an early point. The reasons why I think you are scum came later and that is why my case is completely focussed on your later posts.
You need to appreciate that in order for me or anyone else to think that my case is incorrect then we need to be able to see how your posts were more likely to come from town than from scum. You need to address the points mentioned in my case so that we can do this.
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Koshi, why did you vote paper instead of JAT?
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Koshi, why do you keep saying that tunneling is bad when you entire game plan (if town) revolves around tunneling me?
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On July 29 2013 08:13 Koshi wrote:
How many times do I need to say that I think JAT might be new as opposed to be scum.
I don't want to lynch any of them.
But I prefer lynch over no lynch.
You think they are both town. Did you just flip a coin? Can you give us any reason as to why JAT is more town than Paper?
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On July 29 2013 08:29 Koshi wrote:
Why do I really want to lynch paper now? And why do I have a feeling we are heading towards a no lynch?
On second thought you have a really good reason for voting for Paper. Your plan is still to lynch me as soon as you can. You think that Paper is town so that will help your case against me.
Also, a no lynch will not happen. Only a fool would cause that.
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On July 29 2013 08:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax i can kill Ft too.
Go for it?
Did you just claim Vig? wtf.
Either shoot someone now or if your reads are right then scum may just RB you at night. If that was a Vig claim then it was really really bad timing.
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I can understand why Tofu switched his vote as he was firmly told that Exar would not be lynched. Tofu voting Paper is not scummy to me. Same with Koshi now.
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On July 29 2013 08:43 Koshi wrote:
misslynch incoming.
You people are a joke.
You call us a joke after the shitty game that you have played? Read this game back when it is over and see just how wrong you have been.
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Vivax knows that if Paper flips red then he (Vivax) looks bad. Just keep the votes on Paper and hope he flips red.
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I don't know what to say about that at the moment. I need to sleep on it. I am sure that people will have some questions for me so I will answer them tomorrow.
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On July 29 2013 09:08 Koshi wrote:
So. This has been fun. Now let's hear why you were tunneling this guy for 40 hours hz. You got 24 hours.
As I have already explained multiple times, I was not tunneling him for 40 hours.
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On July 29 2013 11:49 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 08:33 hzflank wrote:On July 29 2013 08:29 Koshi wrote:
Why do I really want to lynch paper now? And why do I have a feeling we are heading towards a no lynch? On second thought you have a really good reason for voting for Paper. Your plan is still to lynch me as soon as you can. You think that Paper is town so that will help your case against me.
Also, a no lynch will not happen. Only a fool would cause that. Here is the small mistake hzflank made. Here in this comment hz somewhat admits that he knows that paper is town, and he is being scared that when this flip happens, Koshi will use it to prove he is scum. This comment is full off scared scum. No fucking townie would be on the paper wagon so long and make this comment. Why would a townie suddenly doubt himself? Or suddenly be so scared to be lynched for being wrong? hzflank was also lurking during the heat of the lynch. That's another scumtell. Because nothing feels so good as scum to see the bickering of town when they are about to lynch another townie. I know the feeling from nuclear. It's 5 am and I got to go to work in 2.5 hours. Been a while since I woke up i nthe middle of the night and solved a problem.
'Somewhat admits'? You are not this bad Koshi, and therefore you are scum. That was my impression upon joining the game this morning and the only reason why I am hesitant to go deep into it is that I worry I am being OMGUS. I will go properly into it though as at this point you are really likely to be scum.
Let me ask you this, assuming that I am scum and that you are town, what was my motivation for making the above post?
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On July 29 2013 19:38 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 19:20 Vivax wrote:Koshi, I need you to explain something, what happened in between your posts that made you remove JAT from your suspects? Just that post of his I included? + Show Spoiler +On July 28 2013 02:32 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 02:13 Oatsmaster wrote:
So anyway about Vayne, he is playing this game totally different from his sole scumgame on site, serious play there, got into a egobitch fight with marv and yeah. None of that here. At all. Meta says he aint scum.
Of course, he might just be really good and faking the bullshit but I dont see why he needs to draw attention to himself when he can play perfectly competent town when he rolls scum. Again you defend Vayne for some meta bullshit. My current lynchpool 5. raynpelikoneet 7. Malongo 8. VayneAuthority 9. Stutters695 13. justanothertownie I have put ??? after these players but I can let them live another day: hzflank clarity_nl Oatsmaster I already forgot why Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 20:43 justanothertownie wrote:On July 28 2013 15:35 FirmTofu wrote:
No, I didn't say JAT having a town read on me is a town tell. That's simply untrue. I said he has me as a town read. Now, scum usually have some town as town reads. That is not meaningful in itself, however, when it's coupled with the fact that he has a lot of posts that indicate that his town read on me is somewhat justifiable from a town perspective. If you would like, I'll quote them for you.
I'm not going to sheep you if you make a good case. I'll consider voting him if you make a good case. There's a big difference there. Yes, my read on you was justifiable at that point but where do you see a lot of posts that would indicate this? Sounds weird to me. I would love to lynch VA for his attitude towards the game but if he always plays like this then there is nothing about him that indicates any alignment. But I would like to know why Vayne thinks Oats voting Tofu is good? Also I'm still not content with Koshis explanation of his reads. So you actually don't have any scumread anymore besides the troll and the lurkers? For now I still think Paper is a good lynch. His reads do not impress me. Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far. What? Please explain this. Vayne leaning town - not sure what to think of vayne as of yet, he comes in every so often and drops some knowledge. I think his vote on clarity is pretty bad though. His filter strikes me as town though. I don't know if we read the posts of the same person...
Koshi leaning town - Koshi is a odd ball so far. I like that he town reads me, haha. I mostly agree with the lists he has made so far.
Yeah, that's because you both don't have any real scumreads.... or do you really think Vivax is scum? Or that I am? ##Vote: Paperscraps Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 23:33 Koshi wrote:On July 28 2013 23:17 Clarity_nl wrote:On July 28 2013 23:11 Koshi wrote:On July 28 2013 17:02 Clarity_nl wrote:Malongo are you serious right now? Koshi, + Show Spoiler +do you have any scumreads at all? Other then saying that JAtownie "looks bad" I don't really see it. And even this accusation of him looking bad is after Oats posted a giant case on him.... On July 28 2013 01:26 Koshi wrote:
Let's talk people that look bad atm.
justanothertownie
Horrible first post.
Horrible second post.
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You only give your reasons for suspecting him of being scum after you have a townread on him. On July 28 2013 04:41 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 04:26 justanothertownie wrote:On July 28 2013 04:19 FirmTofu wrote:On July 28 2013 04:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
FT, thoughts on justanothertownie? Give me some time yo. Well, my filter isn't exactly huge.... I would like to repeat my earlier request: On July 28 2013 02:20 justanothertownie wrote:
Would you mind explaining why i am on your lynch list koshi? Why do you think my posts are so bad? Please explain yourself. You just stated I am scummy and provided absolutely no reasoning for that to be the case. Other than that you aren't scumhunting at all... Oh I missed that question earlier. I was wrong about you. I don't think you are scummy anymore. I thought you were scummy because of your first 2 posts. But now it seems more like you didn't had a good feel into this game yet and tried your luck with making 2 cases. I am actually leaning town on you now. Other than this, you've posted your "willing to lynch" lists but they have basically been JAtownie and a bunch of lurkers/non-posters.... and vayne who is trolling. Who do you currently want to lynch? In one of my first games I didn't know what to do so I started out with making 2 cases, both cases were horrible because I was new to the game, and I received a decent amount of flak for it. But I continued playing trying to learn and post 1 liners to help town. I see the same in JAT currently. My fav lynch target can be found in the lists I make and will make. Okay, and that's cute and innocent and stuff but being wrong does not a scum make. Go scumhunt, find scum. Making a list of 5 people which includes 4 lurkers and the current thread sentiment target, and then taking back the suspicion on the current thread sentiment target, does not make for a useful list. Who do you currently want to lynch, and why? One name, couple of reasons. C'mon My current lynchpool: raynpelikoneet Malongo VayneAuthority Stutters695 I have put ??? after these players but I can let them live another day: hzflank I already told you once (and a couple other people as well) I came to the realisation that JAT could be new as opposed to be scum.I don't know if it was because of that 1 post or because I decided to look at his filter again. JAT How many mafia games have you played before? If you say a lot I won't find you suddenly extremely scummy but I will expect a lot more from you next cycle. If you say you are new your opinion will also be judged accordingly. TLDR: please be honest, lying is bad.
Why did you not attempt to clarify your read on JAT by asking him that question before you actually changed your read?
Here is where your read changes, but you do not actually question JAT at all.
On July 28 2013 04:41 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 04:26 justanothertownie wrote:On July 28 2013 04:19 FirmTofu wrote:On July 28 2013 04:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
FT, thoughts on justanothertownie? Give me some time yo. Well, my filter isn't exactly huge.... I would like to repeat my earlier request: On July 28 2013 02:20 justanothertownie wrote:
Would you mind explaining why i am on your lynch list koshi? Why do you think my posts are so bad? Please explain yourself. You just stated I am scummy and provided absolutely no reasoning for that to be the case. Other than that you aren't scumhunting at all... Oh I missed that question earlier. I was wrong about you. I don't think you are scummy anymore. I thought you were scummy because of your first 2 posts. But now it seems more like you didn't had a good feel into this game yet and tried your luck with making 2 cases. I am actually leaning town on you now.
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On July 29 2013 19:42 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 19:41 hzflank wrote:On July 29 2013 11:49 Koshi wrote:On July 29 2013 08:33 hzflank wrote:On July 29 2013 08:29 Koshi wrote:
Why do I really want to lynch paper now? And why do I have a feeling we are heading towards a no lynch? On second thought you have a really good reason for voting for Paper. Your plan is still to lynch me as soon as you can. You think that Paper is town so that will help your case against me.
Also, a no lynch will not happen. Only a fool would cause that. Here is the small mistake hzflank made. Here in this comment hz somewhat admits that he knows that paper is town, and he is being scared that when this flip happens, Koshi will use it to prove he is scum. This comment is full off scared scum. No fucking townie would be on the paper wagon so long and make this comment. Why would a townie suddenly doubt himself? Or suddenly be so scared to be lynched for being wrong? hzflank was also lurking during the heat of the lynch. That's another scumtell. Because nothing feels so good as scum to see the bickering of town when they are about to lynch another townie. I know the feeling from nuclear. It's 5 am and I got to go to work in 2.5 hours. Been a while since I woke up i nthe middle of the night and solved a problem. 'Somewhat admits'? You are not this bad Koshi, and therefore you are scum. That was my impression upon joining the game this morning and the only reason why I am hesitant to go deep into it is that I worry I am being OMGUS. I will go properly into it though as at this point you are really likely to be scum. Let me ask you this, assuming that I am scum and that you are town, what was my motivation for making the above post? Can you read?
Me being scared is not in the slightest bit consistent with your scum read on me. Your read on me is based on the fact that you think that I am good at playing scum.
In addition, If I were scum and I did not actually want Paper to flip, why did I not just switch my vote onto you?
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On July 29 2013 19:45 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 19:44 hzflank wrote:On July 29 2013 19:38 Koshi wrote:On July 29 2013 19:20 Vivax wrote:Koshi, I need you to explain something, what happened in between your posts that made you remove JAT from your suspects? Just that post of his I included? + Show Spoiler +On July 28 2013 02:32 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 02:13 Oatsmaster wrote:
So anyway about Vayne, he is playing this game totally different from his sole scumgame on site, serious play there, got into a egobitch fight with marv and yeah. None of that here. At all. Meta says he aint scum.
Of course, he might just be really good and faking the bullshit but I dont see why he needs to draw attention to himself when he can play perfectly competent town when he rolls scum. Again you defend Vayne for some meta bullshit. My current lynchpool 5. raynpelikoneet 7. Malongo 8. VayneAuthority 9. Stutters695 13. justanothertownie I have put ??? after these players but I can let them live another day: hzflank clarity_nl Oatsmaster I already forgot why On July 28 2013 20:43 justanothertownie wrote:On July 28 2013 15:35 FirmTofu wrote:
No, I didn't say JAT having a town read on me is a town tell. That's simply untrue. I said he has me as a town read. Now, scum usually have some town as town reads. That is not meaningful in itself, however, when it's coupled with the fact that he has a lot of posts that indicate that his town read on me is somewhat justifiable from a town perspective. If you would like, I'll quote them for you.
I'm not going to sheep you if you make a good case. I'll consider voting him if you make a good case. There's a big difference there. Yes, my read on you was justifiable at that point but where do you see a lot of posts that would indicate this? Sounds weird to me. I would love to lynch VA for his attitude towards the game but if he always plays like this then there is nothing about him that indicates any alignment. But I would like to know why Vayne thinks Oats voting Tofu is good? Also I'm still not content with Koshis explanation of his reads. So you actually don't have any scumread anymore besides the troll and the lurkers? For now I still think Paper is a good lynch. His reads do not impress me. Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far. What? Please explain this. Vayne leaning town - not sure what to think of vayne as of yet, he comes in every so often and drops some knowledge. I think his vote on clarity is pretty bad though. His filter strikes me as town though. I don't know if we read the posts of the same person...
Koshi leaning town - Koshi is a odd ball so far. I like that he town reads me, haha. I mostly agree with the lists he has made so far.
Yeah, that's because you both don't have any real scumreads.... or do you really think Vivax is scum? Or that I am? ##Vote: Paperscraps On July 28 2013 23:33 Koshi wrote:On July 28 2013 23:17 Clarity_nl wrote:On July 28 2013 23:11 Koshi wrote:On July 28 2013 17:02 Clarity_nl wrote:Malongo are you serious right now? Koshi, + Show Spoiler +do you have any scumreads at all? Other then saying that JAtownie "looks bad" I don't really see it. And even this accusation of him looking bad is after Oats posted a giant case on him.... On July 28 2013 01:26 Koshi wrote:
Let's talk people that look bad atm.
justanothertownie
Horrible first post.
Horrible second post.
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You only give your reasons for suspecting him of being scum after you have a townread on him. On July 28 2013 04:41 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 04:26 justanothertownie wrote:On July 28 2013 04:19 FirmTofu wrote:On July 28 2013 04:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
FT, thoughts on justanothertownie? Give me some time yo. Well, my filter isn't exactly huge.... I would like to repeat my earlier request: On July 28 2013 02:20 justanothertownie wrote:
Would you mind explaining why i am on your lynch list koshi? Why do you think my posts are so bad? Please explain yourself. You just stated I am scummy and provided absolutely no reasoning for that to be the case. Other than that you aren't scumhunting at all... Oh I missed that question earlier. I was wrong about you. I don't think you are scummy anymore. I thought you were scummy because of your first 2 posts. But now it seems more like you didn't had a good feel into this game yet and tried your luck with making 2 cases. I am actually leaning town on you now. Other than this, you've posted your "willing to lynch" lists but they have basically been JAtownie and a bunch of lurkers/non-posters.... and vayne who is trolling. Who do you currently want to lynch? In one of my first games I didn't know what to do so I started out with making 2 cases, both cases were horrible because I was new to the game, and I received a decent amount of flak for it. But I continued playing trying to learn and post 1 liners to help town. I see the same in JAT currently. My fav lynch target can be found in the lists I make and will make. Okay, and that's cute and innocent and stuff but being wrong does not a scum make. Go scumhunt, find scum. Making a list of 5 people which includes 4 lurkers and the current thread sentiment target, and then taking back the suspicion on the current thread sentiment target, does not make for a useful list. Who do you currently want to lynch, and why? One name, couple of reasons. C'mon My current lynchpool: raynpelikoneet Malongo VayneAuthority Stutters695 I have put ??? after these players but I can let them live another day: hzflank I already told you once (and a couple other people as well) I came to the realisation that JAT could be new as opposed to be scum.I don't know if it was because of that 1 post or because I decided to look at his filter again. JAT How many mafia games have you played before? If you say a lot I won't find you suddenly extremely scummy but I will expect a lot more from you next cycle. If you say you are new your opinion will also be judged accordingly. TLDR: please be honest, lying is bad. Why did you not attempt to clarify your read on JAT by asking him that question before you actually changed your read? Here is where your read changes, but you do not actually question JAT at all. On July 28 2013 04:41 Koshi wrote:On July 28 2013 04:26 justanothertownie wrote:On July 28 2013 04:19 FirmTofu wrote:On July 28 2013 04:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
FT, thoughts on justanothertownie? Give me some time yo. Well, my filter isn't exactly huge.... I would like to repeat my earlier request: On July 28 2013 02:20 justanothertownie wrote:
Would you mind explaining why i am on your lynch list koshi? Why do you think my posts are so bad? Please explain yourself. You just stated I am scummy and provided absolutely no reasoning for that to be the case. Other than that you aren't scumhunting at all... Oh I missed that question earlier. I was wrong about you. I don't think you are scummy anymore. I thought you were scummy because of your first 2 posts. But now it seems more like you didn't had a good feel into this game yet and tried your luck with making 2 cases. I am actually leaning town on you now. I could have asked it ealier. But I didn't. Sue me.
'I could of but I didn't' does not help any of us. If you are town then you should want other people to understand your reasoning and your motivations.
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EPT
