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On August 01 2013 02:15 VayneAuthority wrote: rayn is a good lynch for later, not now though. get rid of all people not contributing to the town wincon. First up, malongo. I'm pretty sure giving out fake reads and refusing to take this game seriously counts as not contributing to your wincon...
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On August 01 2013 02:35 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:20 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 02:15 VayneAuthority wrote: rayn is a good lynch for later, not now though. get rid of all people not contributing to the town wincon. First up, malongo. Remember that we only have 1 mislynch left. ...scum can roll the dice with the janitor trying to kill and all they need to do is... How do you know for certain scum has a janitor? I thought the set-up was semi-open?
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On August 01 2013 03:34 cDgCorazon wrote: Why is Malongo town, Rayn? I don't really understand how you can look at his filter and call it town. Filter. Again.
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Stutters, you never responded to this. Care to do so? Only scum what know what kind of power roles they have...
On August 01 2013 02:46 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:35 Stutters695 wrote:On August 01 2013 02:20 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 02:15 VayneAuthority wrote: rayn is a good lynch for later, not now though. get rid of all people not contributing to the town wincon. First up, malongo. Remember that we only have 1 mislynch left. ...scum can roll the dice with the janitor trying to kill and all they need to do is... How do you know for certain scum has a janitor? I thought the set-up was semi-open?
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EBWOP: Only scum would know...
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On August 01 2013 04:22 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 03:58 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:Stutters, you never responded to this. Care to do so? Only scum what know what kind of power roles they have... On August 01 2013 02:46 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:On August 01 2013 02:35 Stutters695 wrote:On August 01 2013 02:20 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 02:15 VayneAuthority wrote: rayn is a good lynch for later, not now though. get rid of all people not contributing to the town wincon. First up, malongo. Remember that we only have 1 mislynch left. ...scum can roll the dice with the janitor trying to kill and all they need to do is... How do you know for certain scum has a janitor? I thought the set-up was semi-open? Reading is hard as scum I take it? What is that supposed to mean? It's almost like you know scum has a janitor. It seems really fishy to me and I wanted an answer to it.
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On August 01 2013 04:28 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:48 Stutters695 wrote: Assumption. I plan for the worst, and a successful janitor kill practically ends us if we have Mal& Oats alive in LYLO. Yeah, reading is definitely hard. You scum Cora? That's a huge thing to assume. Setup speculation is not the towniest thing to do bro. And accusing you does not make me scum. Why are you being so defensive?
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On August 01 2013 04:30 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:26 Stutters695 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:18 hzflank wrote: So conspiracy theory is either:
Stutters is scum and really messed up and Rayn and Exar just sarted to shit up the thread so that people would move on quickly and ignore it.
Or
Stutters is town and Cora thought he would use my point to throw the scum-role scumslip point at him again to see if he could put pressure on Stutters instead of someone else (Koshi? Not sure who).
For now:
##Unvote ##Vote: Stutters Or you could, you know, vote Tofu with Rayn/I/anyone who cares about winning and we can hit scum today instead of dicking around and making no progress towards winning. Why Tofu and not Cora? If you are town then it should be extremely fishy that Cora would push you so hard over knowing scum roles. That is such a scummy thing to push someone for, and it is not like Cora has been particularly town for the last 48 hours. Also, Rayn thinks Cora is scum, right? I am sure he would not argue too much with my theory that Cora is only doing this because Cora is scum, since Rayn has a town read on you. This whole situation is completely and utterly fucking win/win for me at the moment. Well seeing as Rayn voted for his town read, I'm not entirely sure if you should trust any of his reads. hz, do I look scummier than anyone who has been considered for lynch today? If the answer is no, why are you discussing things that aren't important to todays lynch? If the answer is yes, I would love to hear your case.
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Are the Malongo votes for realsies or are people just faking interest in lynching him? I still think he is very likely to flip scum if we lynch him.
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On July 25 2013 21:46 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
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Also scum can ragequit too...see DrH in Bluelightz mafia.
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On August 01 2013 05:54 Stutters695 wrote: If I told you it's my birthday would you lynch Tofu? That's a lie. It would say it was your birthday next to your name.
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On August 01 2013 05:59 Stutters695 wrote: It's not actually. My TL birthday is a lie. Want to lynch Tofu with me out of love? I don't take bribes.
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On August 01 2013 05:59 Stutters695 wrote: It's not actually. My TL birthday is a lie. Want to lynch Tofu with me out of love? I only love the sea and rum.
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On August 01 2013 06:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Malongo is going to flip town and you are all idiots or mafia. Do i need to tell you again why this is so very wrong target? Is there anyone who can think with their own brain?
On July 29 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:No, that makes no sense. If i knew Paper better and could tell 100% he is town we could no-lynch. But i can't. ##Unvote: ##Vote: PaperscrapsFuck you all. Chance of success 5%.
So why aren't you voting for Malongo?
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Why Malongo is scum and why we need to lynch him:
Taking a look at Malongo's filter, it's kind of obvious that his guy is scum. I'll dissect his filter for a bit.
His first major analysis post:
On July 28 2013 14:29 Malongo wrote:I really didnt like this post from hzflank: Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 21:46 hzflank wrote: Yes I would lynch a lurker today. However, I dislike beginning the day with the thought of lynching a lurker. I think the best thing on day 1 would be for at least 3 wagons to form before we even thinking about consolidating (or lynching a lurker). If enough cases are made then there is more chance that one of them is a case against scum and the scum team may react to that. It is hard to make a good case against a lurker, so I would prefer cases against active people to be discussed first. The think about starting the day lynching a lurker is to force the players to post and force the mafia to make mistakes. I rather start the day forcing lurkers to post than "looking for 2/3 wagons" earlier. Earlier wagons are more likely to be town (in my experience) and the lurker lynching stays aside. Trying to get early wagons is also a good way to close the fence early wich help the mafia more than the town. His vote so far on Paperscraps is really weak and when I read his filter I found it really reactive (or defensive as he put it). ##Vote: hzflank
This vote for hzflank is really poorly reasoned. He reads the first 24 hours of posts and that is all he can come up with? He votes for hz because hz was stating his opinion about LaL-ing and Malongo disagrees with it. If Malongo was really going to attack someone for the reason he attacked hzflank, he should have attacked the people who started the lurker lynching conversation to begin with. All in all, it looks like a forced case and a really bad entry into the thread, considering that it was late and he had a lot more information to work on.
Then there is his vote on FT:
On July 28 2013 16:38 Malongo wrote: Meh I still think hzflank is better lynch but I want to test how this turns out when I wake up. Night.
##Unvote ##Vote FirmTofu.
What kind of vote is this? There's absolutely no explanation as to why he wants to vote for FirmTofu. He even admits that hzflank is still his top scumread, so why is he changing his vote to FT? It makes absolutely no sense. This was not even close to the end of D1. It's just an attempt by him to look like he is trying to scumhunt when in fact he isn't.
He continues to push an hzflank lynch while his vote is still on FirmTofu (spoilered to condense the post):
+ Show Spoiler +On July 29 2013 06:44 Malongo wrote:This is hzflank on Paper: Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 00:20 hzflank wrote:The Paperscraps came from a Scum-Tree Paper rejoins the game with a big post that is basically just a list of town reads. He does not provide particularly good reasons for his town reads. This is scummy through and through. I dont care about a list of his town reads, I want to know who he thinks is scum. + Show Spoiler +On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote:I have finally caught up! I wrote down some reads as I was catching up. First off I need to say some stuff about my play early on. I get why people would find me scummy so far, tone and sarcasm are hard to convey in text. This is why I will play a more standard game from now on. It isn't helping people find scum, if they are looking at me for joking and being sarcastic and not understanding that is all it is. hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground. exarezee null - The argument of either Tofu or I having to be scum strikes me as odd. I don't see any interactions between FT and I, that would merit this stance. I would like a more in-depth analysis of this pairing. One thing that bugs me about exarezee is that he has reacted in a "noob" fashion to the two early votes on him. With his 100+ games played on the poker forums, which I have no reason to doubt, I just can't see why he would react so defensively. I am probably over thinking my read on exarezee, but I don't see him flipping scum at the moment, due his push on me which holds no substance and his reaction. Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far. Clarity leaning town - Nothing really to elaborate on Clarity so far, I doubt most of the players would disagree. One great interaction I found so far was this. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 22:47 hzflank wrote:On July 27 2013 22:25 exarezee wrote: I think paperscraps and firmtofu are a good 1,2 wagon combo for day 1.
I don't think both are scum, but I think its a high chance one of the two are. Really strange initial votes on me by both of them. I don't understand why I had to be voted because I didn't provide a reason for a tone read I made. Paperscrap's vote is even more bewildering because he states he was "joking in all his posts." So, if they were townies making these votes I would have to assume they are trying to see if anybody jumps on my bandwagon and gain some information from it....but then they really quickly unvote. Just really strange town play IMO. Really can't see this being done as a scum/scum combo. It draws a little too much attention. Again, could be town/town, but I think its really likely a scum/town combo here. How is that post in any way more useful to town than to scum? You think that Paper and Tofu should be the two lynch candidates but do not state which of them is most likely to be scum. If they are both town then having them be the primary lynch candidates would be great for scum. If one of them is actually scum then you posting that without saying which one you think is scum is really not useful, as if one of them flips town you are in a position where you should assume that the other is scum, which give you a really easy excuse to vote for them if you are in fact scum. Basically, telling us which single person you want to lynch is good. Telling us that you want the votes to be between two specific people is really bad. Which of them is most likely to be scum? This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. CapJackSparrow null - I totally dig his RP gimmick so far and I am biased toward him in a good way. I want to say I lean town on him, but I would hold judgement on his alignment for now. Tofu null - I don't think his push on exarezee is the best. It seems to be grasping. The thing with making cases in general is you can always twist and skew people's filter to whatever you think is right. Initially I leaned town on FT, but after his case I retract that some what. Vayne leaning town - not sure what to think of vayne as of yet, he comes in every so often and drops some knowledge. I think his vote on clarity is pretty bad though. His filter strikes me as town though. Koshi leaning town - Koshi is a odd ball so far. I like that he town reads me, haha. I mostly agree with the lists he has made so far. I am going to read some filters more in-depth and meditate on what I have come up with so far. I don't have a strong scum read at the moment. Also I realize I haven't commented on some people who have posted, the reads above were what stuck out to me most on my initial read through. How can that be mafia if the game had just started? You expect something like a paper on who is mafia based on 10 pages of posts? guy addressed one by one each player and you get angry because he doesnt respond directly to youShow nested quote +I already pointed out a specific thing that I did not like about this, which can be seen in this exchange. I encourage you all to read it from post 493 to 503. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=25#493Paper's excuse for the inconstancy was that he did not read properly, but it was not one of those moments where you can tell that he was obviously being truthful. Paper refused to answer any of my questions. How am I possibly supposed to get a town read on him when he does not answer my questions? If Paper were town then he would of answered them as honestly as possible. Also, what does this actually tell us? It's pure fluff in an attempt to pad a post that contains zero useful information for town. This is a lie as proof you can actually find the exchange that he actually answers you directly: Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 18:25 Paperscraps wrote:On July 28 2013 18:03 hzflank wrote:On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote:
hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground.
Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far.
Oats' read on me was almost the exact opposite of your read on me. You cannot say that you liked the still liked the reasoning for Oats' read on me because he reasoning was mostly not reading my filter properly and a little philosophical differences. Exactly which Oats reads and posts were great? What do you perceive Oats' 'comprehension of what is going on' to be? Maybe I am missing something, but reading through Oats' filter he doesn't push on you. He doesn't even directly call you scum. I am not sure what you are looking for here. I believe what he has said about you so far is decent. I really don't see how it contradicts my read. Stepping on toes = abrasive. Is your gripe with him calling you defensive? Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote: This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. Show nested quote +
In general I have no idea how Paper even arrived at the useless town reads in that post because he did not explain them in a townie way.
So actually you are telling that you dont understand Paper so he is not town. See the logic flaw?Show nested quote +In addition, when Paper is pushed and finally gives us a scum read it is this: On July 28 2013 13:32 Paperscraps wrote:On July 28 2013 12:57 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Also @Paper,
I would like a scumread, if you are still around. You had promised one to me, yet you don't give me one...and everyone calls me untrustworthy... Right now I would lynch Vivax followed by JAT. Vivax's push on Vayne seems like an excuse to just put a vote up. JAT hasn't added anything new to the thread. He has just regurgitated other people's FoSes in his own words. The only good thing JAT has done is nominate Jack for captain, I would like rayn and Malongo to post more, before I actually made a decision. Also I disagree on your read of Oats, I think he has contributed and I lean town on him. You should read through Vayne's filter, he posts some really good stuff if you look for it. I don't see him flipping scum right now. He gives us a single sentence as to why he wants to lynch Vivax. A single sentence in a game with 400+ posts to use for information. Then he adds a second scum read. He never actually pushes either of these reads at all. Not once does he even direct a post at Vivax or JAT. Well actually his one sentence makes more sense to me than these case. He calls Vivax directly lurker because there was no reason behind his vote.Show nested quote +
Paper later says that he has changed his mind about me and thinks I may be scum. I engage him in conversation (linked above) and he does not even try to push his read on me at all. If Paper actually had a scum read on me then why did that conversation go as it did?
How is that in any ways indicative of mafia? if something he liked your own way to be abrasive. Show nested quote +
How is any of this not scummy? How can people be saying that Paper's filter looks town?
What? most people look at Paper as null towards townie, I dont see anyone calling him town. What I am sure is your post is really forced towards Paper
He then suddenly goes back to an hz lynch:
On July 29 2013 07:08 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 06:58 hzflank wrote:On July 29 2013 06:55 Koshi wrote: Why are we ignoring Malongo? Do you want me to fully answer him now? His problem with me stems from philosophical differences regarding lynching lurkers. After that he clutches at straws. He seems to genuinely think that I am scum, though. I never responded to him earlier because until this page he talked about me and not too me, and since I have spent a lot of time replying to people doing that this game there was no town benefit to messing up the thread discussing philosophical differences. Do you want me to fully answer every point that you and Malongo just made? The thing is your case on Paper was conveniently tunneled and wagoned early and nipticked and I found you lying 2 times. A) When you said the guy was not answering you directly. hint: he didB) When you said *how pleople find Paper townie posting. hint: null =/= townieThat and the fact that now we are ending the day with 0 pressure on active lurkers as you wanted with your initial posts. ##Vote hzflank
While his vote is finally following his actual suspicions, why did he stray in the first place?
And then there is the fakecheck, to which he responds:
On July 30 2013 09:41 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 09:21 VayneAuthority wrote: I have a guilty check on malongo. awaiting his response! If there is no miller there is no chance in hell you are telling the truth. Vigi on me asap, clear the vigi you and me, im green.
The fact that he wants the vigilante to shoot him to see if VA is telling the truth is really scummy. A town player would try to prove that he is town by his posting and his scum hunting. Malongo just goes out and asks for a vigilante hit on him. It's almost as if he was trying to bait out a vigilante shot knowing he was going to get lynched. It would be beneficial for scum because he could get rid of a vigilante shot and narrow the pool of blues down.
The ragequit happened but as I said earlier:
On August 01 2013 05:51 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Also scum can ragequit too...see DrH in Bluelightz mafia.
So, in summary:
-Malongo's activity levels have been very unsatisfactory and he is trying to blend in -Has not done very much scum-hunting -His hz vote is really weak and he continued to push hz even after he had voted for FirmTofu -Voted for FirmTofu without any explanation and did nothing to push the FT lynch -Initial reaction from VA's fake-check was to draw out a vigilante shot (not totally scummy but there's possible scum motivation) -Ragequits are not 100% town-tells
Malongo looks like the best lynch to me, and I hope you all can agree with me.
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Btw Oats had one scumread D1, JAT. He's kind of like Piggy from Lord of the Flies and his JAT scumread is like the conch. If anyone gets that joke.
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On August 01 2013 06:33 Clarity_nl wrote: rayn just said malongo is incompetent and town CJS has a case about how, because malongo has been incompetent, he is scum
CJS, you fail to address the fact that he thought pms were enabled, what do you make of that? He could just be saying that...did he actually pm anyone?
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On August 01 2013 06:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also the fact that Oats & Cora are not on each other´s throats makes them both very likely mafia. Those are the two players who tunnel the shit out of people (besides me) and when they get into an argument they will not let go, usually even when they are clearly wrong, because they believe in theirselves. Now they are both just dropping some questions or minor shit on each other and not interacting with each other at all. That´s fucking fishy and that´s not how it goes when at least one of them is town.
Have you ever thought that perhaps I'm tired of dealing with Oats? I used to have his problem with Marv where we would tunnel each other every game as townies, and then we just decided to stay out of each other's way. Do you want Oats and I to tunnel each other? No. It's bad for the town. Why are you calling me scum for doing something townie?
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Well he got Rayn to say this:
On August 01 2013 06:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: - Does not make Malongo scum, in fact it´s perfectly in line with his town play - Does not make Malongo scum, in fact he is trying more here than in his latest town games - Does not make Malongo scum, because he does dumb stuff all the time - Does definitely not make Malongo scum as you said yourself rofl - Does definitely not make Malongo scum
So it's very possible that he is playing dumb to get people to think he is a bad townie. It would work for someone like Malongo who does not post too much and does not have too much experience with mafia. I'm not trying to say that Malongo is absolute shit at the game, just that he is banking on other players using meta reads so he can do nothing and still be called town by players like Rayn.
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