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On July 28 2013 21:37 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 20:49 hzflank wrote:On July 28 2013 20:30 Vivax wrote:
hz, what's your current read on justanothertownie? That's a really good question. When Oats made his case against JAT it was actually a pretty good case and I was a little surprised that it did not gather more support or at least positive comments. JAT's filter starts bad and does not get a lot better. I think the reason that I have been giving JAT the benefit of doubt is because for most of the game I really have not trusted Oats. I did consider moving my vote to JAT but I wanted Paper to post before I moved my vote. Looking without any associations then JAT seems like scum to me. In fact, the thing that confuses me most about this game so far is that more people did not vote for JAT and then Oats moved his vote off of JAT when he did. I am not going to be able to figure out why this happened until I see some flips, though. FT more scum  Also, I can wait for JAT to get lynched. Are you gonna vote for FT? Why/why not?
No, I am not going to vote for FT (unless something drastic happens).
I think that you are misreading my position. FT is far from my strongest town reads, but is just about in the town category and I only want to vote for someone in the scum category. There is a good pool of players who you might get to vote for FT (Clarity, Exar, Vayne, Paper, Koshi, Stutters, Vivax and Rayn), but I am not one of those people.
I do not like your reasoning for wanting to lynch FT. If I were going to lynch FT it would primarily be due to his exchange with Exar that I think should of left FT with a town read on Exar, but apparently did not. Even that is not a good enough reason for lynching him, though.
I want to lynch Paper. Just look at what was posted a few hours ago. Paper looks at least as scummy as anyone in that exchange, if not more.
Also, Paper's flip would provide great information. The best information we would get from an FT red flip is that it makes Exar look more town and makes me look more scum, and I obviously do not care about that information. If FT flips green then what? It makes Exar look slightly bad I suppose, but it is not much.
I am willing to give Paper a chance to change my mind because it is day 1 and it would be stupid of me not to. However, I do not intend to make it easy for him and I would not be surprised if he just ends up looking even more like scum (because he is!)
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Lol Oats, so obvious. Oats and Paper both scum, FT and JAT both town.
Vivax probably town. He thinks I am scum because I seemed to be soft defending JAT.
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On July 28 2013 23:01 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:59 hzflank wrote:
Lol Oats, so obvious. Oats and Paper both scum, FT and JAT both town.
Vivax probably town. He thinks I am scum because I seemed to be soft defending JAT. I know right hzflank. I totally should stop pushing FT because it makes me look extremely scummy. Can you use your brain for one moment and explain why I would stop voting for FT as scum?
On July 28 2013 22:43 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 22:24 Clarity_nl wrote:
Nah I don't think FT is scum anymore yo. I'm having issues with paper, yes he looks scummy but there's never been any pushbacks up until now, when suddenly and FT wagon is being formed (which makes sense, his posting is kinda scummy)
It's that interaction where we was SUPER EXCITED HE FOUND A SCUMSLIP that happened, can't really see him as anything but town after that in my eyes. yeah yeah you're right. Good job clarity. ##unvote FT
##vote: JAT
That information was all available before you voted for FT. Are you not reading the thread properly again, Oats? You cannot change your mind based on information that was available before you formed the original opinion.
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On July 28 2013 22:24 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm having issues with paper, yes he looks scummy but there's never been any pushbacks up until now, when suddenly and FT wagon is being formed (which makes sense, his posting is kinda scummy)
There was no serious pressure on Paper until he started to again. I was pretty open about being willing to change my vote once I had reason to. I asked one set of questions to Paper which he never answered due to being AFK and I left it at that.
Then Paper came back and posted like scum. So I pushed him and he disappeared. Then the FT thing came up suddenly. The push on FT was the pushback to save Paper.
Just look at how sure Oats is that Paper is town.
On July 28 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
The best info that we get from a Papers flip is that he flips town.
I think that we need to see either Oats or Paper flip. I think that of the two Paper has the most chance of being scum and also that a mislynch on Oats would be worse.
Heck, if we have a Day Vig...
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On July 28 2013 23:10 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 23:07 hzflank wrote:On July 28 2013 23:01 Oatsmaster wrote:On July 28 2013 22:59 hzflank wrote:
Lol Oats, so obvious. Oats and Paper both scum, FT and JAT both town.
Vivax probably town. He thinks I am scum because I seemed to be soft defending JAT. I know right hzflank. I totally should stop pushing FT because it makes me look extremely scummy. Can you use your brain for one moment and explain why I would stop voting for FT as scum? On July 28 2013 22:43 Oatsmaster wrote:On July 28 2013 22:24 Clarity_nl wrote:
Nah I don't think FT is scum anymore yo. I'm having issues with paper, yes he looks scummy but there's never been any pushbacks up until now, when suddenly and FT wagon is being formed (which makes sense, his posting is kinda scummy)
It's that interaction where we was SUPER EXCITED HE FOUND A SCUMSLIP that happened, can't really see him as anything but town after that in my eyes. yeah yeah you're right. Good job clarity. ##unvote FT
##vote: JAT That information was all available before you voted for FT. Are you not reading the thread properly again, Oats? You cannot change your mind based on information that was available before you formed the original opinion. Wait so you are saying that I unvoted because of what scum agenda? I dont see it anywhere.
A simple scum reasoning could be because you thought that you had more chance to secure a lynch on JAT than on FT.
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On July 28 2013 23:08 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:No. You are still my other one. No one else seems to agree with me though. It makes me sad =( Malongo's activity has been really disappointing to me. I'm not sure why FirmTofu say that his activity has been good when in fact it has been shit. Stutters also came in, took a shot at me, and then peaced out without giving any real analysis. I'm not entirely sure if I can see any town motivation in that. I just think that these are two people to look out for and I would be up for lynching any of the four players (Oatsmaster, VayneAuthority, Malongo, Stutters) today. I'm still not sold on the FirmTofu argument (I'll have to read it again when I have more rum) and I'm really not sold on the Paperscraps or JAT argument.
What part of Paper's play made him not scum?
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On July 28 2013 23:22 Oatsmaster wrote:
Are you serious?
Who do you see wanting to lynch JAT? Vivax ONLY.
FT more people dont view so well.
At the time that you posted it looked a lot easier to secure a lynch on JAT than FT. As well as Vivax, Clairty and I would not of voted FT but may have voted JAT.
On July 28 2013 23:22 Oatsmaster wrote:
Presuming im not horrible at playing scum, would scumoats do it?
Fuck I wish marv was here to explain.
It would not be the best scum play as you ideally would not want your target (JAT) to be lynched while eyes are also on a scum-buddy. It's not an impossible scum play though, just very difficult to pull off well (get a third party lynched).
I'll concede on that last point as there would be no reason for scum to make such a big play on day 1.
Still, why are you so sure that Paper is town?
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Actually I changed my mind, I am hereby begging a Vig to just shoot JAT right now because I am pissed off that he is going to be afk until the deadline and that I have found myself in a position where I feel I need to defend him even though every post he has made has been scummy. Someone just shoot him now please :/
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I am really surprised that people do not think Paper is scum so I will make a proper case on it shortly. I disagree with the reasons people are giving for him being town.
Also, Koshi what are you doing? I see no good reason for you making that list. Get stuck in properly and stop sitting on a fence.
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On July 28 2013 23:44 justanothertownie wrote:
I will not be afk till the deadline if you want something from me just say it... I'll be here for over an hour till I leave. Nobody forces you to defend me if you think I am scummy. In fact you shouldn't.
But if you do not defend yourself and I push my read then I am defending you by proxy. If I do not push my read then I am just playing badly. It's a lose/lose situation for me. It's not your fault ofcourse as I do not expect people to give up RL for this game. I just should of been more careful before I put myself in this situation.
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It's majority lynch and we need 8 votes. We will consolidate later anyway so for now I do not see a good reason to push for more than one person to be lynched.
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The Paperscraps came from a Scum-Tree
Paper rejoins the game with a big post that is basically just a list of town reads. He does not provide particularly good reasons for his town reads. This is scummy through and through. I dont care about a list of his town reads, I want to know who he thinks is scum.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote:I have finally caught up! I wrote down some reads as I was catching up. First off I need to say some stuff about my play early on. I get why people would find me scummy so far, tone and sarcasm are hard to convey in text. This is why I will play a more standard game from now on. It isn't helping people find scum, if they are looking at me for joking and being sarcastic and not understanding that is all it is. hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground. exarezee null - The argument of either Tofu or I having to be scum strikes me as odd. I don't see any interactions between FT and I, that would merit this stance. I would like a more in-depth analysis of this pairing. One thing that bugs me about exarezee is that he has reacted in a "noob" fashion to the two early votes on him. With his 100+ games played on the poker forums, which I have no reason to doubt, I just can't see why he would react so defensively. I am probably over thinking my read on exarezee, but I don't see him flipping scum at the moment, due his push on me which holds no substance and his reaction. Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far. Clarity leaning town - Nothing really to elaborate on Clarity so far, I doubt most of the players would disagree. One great interaction I found so far was this. Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 22:47 hzflank wrote:On July 27 2013 22:25 exarezee wrote:
I think paperscraps and firmtofu are a good 1,2 wagon combo for day 1.
I don't think both are scum, but I think its a high chance one of the two are. Really strange initial votes on me by both of them. I don't understand why I had to be voted because I didn't provide a reason for a tone read I made. Paperscrap's vote is even more bewildering because he states he was "joking in all his posts." So, if they were townies making these votes I would have to assume they are trying to see if anybody jumps on my bandwagon and gain some information from it....but then they really quickly unvote. Just really strange town play IMO. Really can't see this being done as a scum/scum combo. It draws a little too much attention. Again, could be town/town, but I think its really likely a scum/town combo here. How is that post in any way more useful to town than to scum? You think that Paper and Tofu should be the two lynch candidates but do not state which of them is most likely to be scum. If they are both town then having them be the primary lynch candidates would be great for scum. If one of them is actually scum then you posting that without saying which one you think is scum is really not useful, as if one of them flips town you are in a position where you should assume that the other is scum, which give you a really easy excuse to vote for them if you are in fact scum. Basically, telling us which single person you want to lynch is good. Telling us that you want the votes to be between two specific people is really bad. Which of them is most likely to be scum? This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. CapJackSparrow null - I totally dig his RP gimmick so far and I am biased toward him in a good way. I want to say I lean town on him, but I would hold judgement on his alignment for now. Tofu null - I don't think his push on exarezee is the best. It seems to be grasping. The thing with making cases in general is you can always twist and skew people's filter to whatever you think is right. Initially I leaned town on FT, but after his case I retract that some what. Vayne leaning town - not sure what to think of vayne as of yet, he comes in every so often and drops some knowledge. I think his vote on clarity is pretty bad though. His filter strikes me as town though. Koshi leaning town - Koshi is a odd ball so far. I like that he town reads me, haha. I mostly agree with the lists he has made so far. I am going to read some filters more in-depth and meditate on what I have come up with so far. I don't have a strong scum read at the moment. Also I realize I haven't commented on some people who have posted, the reads above were what stuck out to me most on my initial read through.
I already pointed out a specific thing that I did not like about this, which can be seen in this exchange. I encourage you all to read it from post 493 to 503.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=25#493
Paper's excuse for the inconstancy was that he did not read properly, but it was not one of those moments where you can tell that he was obviously being truthful.
Paper refused to answer any of my questions. How am I possibly supposed to get a town read on him when he does not answer my questions? If Paper were town then he would of answered them as honestly as possible.
Also, what does this actually tell us? It's pure fluff in an attempt to pad a post that contains zero useful information for town.
On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote:
This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't.
In general I have no idea how Paper even arrived at the useless town reads in that post because he did not explain them in a townie way.
In addition, when Paper is pushed and finally gives us a scum read it is this:
On July 28 2013 13:32 Paperscraps wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 12:57 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:
Also @Paper,
I would like a scumread, if you are still around. You had promised one to me, yet you don't give me one...and everyone calls me untrustworthy... Right now I would lynch Vivax followed by JAT. Vivax's push on Vayne seems like an excuse to just put a vote up. JAT hasn't added anything new to the thread. He has just regurgitated other people's FoSes in his own words. The only good thing JAT has done is nominate Jack for captain,  I would like rayn and Malongo to post more, before I actually made a decision. Also I disagree on your read of Oats, I think he has contributed and I lean town on him. You should read through Vayne's filter, he posts some really good stuff if you look for it. I don't see him flipping scum right now.
He gives us a single sentence as to why he wants to lynch Vivax. A single sentence in a game with 400+ posts to use for information. Then he adds a second scum read. He never actually pushes either of these reads at all. Not once does he even direct a post at Vivax or JAT.
Paper later says that he has changed his mind about me and thinks I may be scum. I engage him in conversation (linked above) and he does not even try to push his read on me at all. If Paper actually had a scum read on me then why did that conversation go as it did?
How is any of this not scummy? How can people be saying that Paper's filter looks town?
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On July 29 2013 00:32 Vivax wrote:
Right now im interested into knowing who hzflanks other three scumspects are, if he has any besides paperscraps.
Found him kinda scummy since the thing with stutters, where he used one argument on paperscraps but not on me. I need still to analyze his other posts more properly though. I suggest that's a good place to start looking if you want to find something weird about hz.
I think I have made that fairly clear already and it would be based on associations after Paper's flip.
I am perfectly willing to answer your question, but first I would like you to answer mine. Why do you want to know my other scum reads while I am obviously pushing hard on Paper? What benefit goes that give you or the town?
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On July 29 2013 00:53 cDgCorazon wrote:
I'm curious to see why you can't find Paperscraps' scum reads...
I did find them, Captain.
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On July 29 2013 00:57 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:
##Vote: Oatsmaster
I give up. I don't want to play this game anymore.
Why not?
Also, I commented a lot of Paper's scum reads in my big post. Paper's scum reads are part of the problem.
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On July 29 2013 00:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 00:39 hzflank wrote:On July 29 2013 00:32 Vivax wrote:
Right now im interested into knowing who hzflanks other three scumspects are, if he has any besides paperscraps.
Found him kinda scummy since the thing with stutters, where he used one argument on paperscraps but not on me. I need still to analyze his other posts more properly though. I suggest that's a good place to start looking if you want to find something weird about hz. I think I have made that fairly clear already and it would be based on associations after Paper's flip. I am perfectly willing to answer your question, but first I would like you to answer mine. Why do you want to know my other scum reads while I am obviously pushing hard on Paper? What benefit goes that give you or the town? I want to know if you're trying to figure out the game or just pushing a lynch from an easy tunnel. You tend to paint whatever ps does in unfavourable light, and seem to ignore other possibilities. It's my current subjective impression of your play, and i will reinforce it or correct it when i have the chance to post from a more comfortable place later.
Do I honestly look like I am not trying to figure the game out? You think I am more scum than Paper because I am not scum-hunting? I have clearly done a lot of scum-hunting this game and as I pointed out in my case Paper clearly has not.
I paint whatever Paper does in a scummy light because I think he is scum. I am not going to phrase things like I think Paper is a shining beacon of town while I am pushing a case on him.
As I have already explained in this thread, my early vote on Paper was not meant to stick. I did not intend to tunnel him but I think that his posts were bad enough to warrant me pushing for his lynch.
If I had to give a scum-read with no associations at this point then...I was going to say JAT but actually it would be Koshi, because he is not scum-hunting at all. His case on me was so bad that I felt I could not even reply to it without messing up the thread.
However, if Paper flips red then I have made it very clear that I will be asking a lot of questions of Oats.
Oh btw, your point against me was really bad. Out earlier exchange was not scummy and I explained my position from a town PoV.
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On July 29 2013 01:12 Clarity_nl wrote:
Still have no idea who you mean when you say mz
me, I think.
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On July 29 2013 01:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
Koshi, why are you making lists in this game and in NONE of your other games?
Why are you not providing much reasoning for any of those reads. Why do you not seem to care who dies?
Did you see the irony in why he wants to lynch me? :p
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On July 29 2013 01:43 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 01:37 Koshi wrote:On July 29 2013 01:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
Koshi, why are you making lists in this game and in NONE of your other games?
Why are you not providing much reasoning for any of those reads. Why do you not seem to care who dies? I feel like being countvoncount this game. I gave reasoning for all my names. Or it is obvious. Why should I care? I would like it to be scum, I would really like it to be not me. Why should you care who dies? Who the fuck has this kind of mindset as town? "I dont care who dies, I dont want it to be me. " GUYS WANNA LYNCH KOSHI?
I might be reading too much into this, but that may be a trap aimed at me. Koshi knows that scum-me would jump on him for that but not push it too hard, because it would be too easy to just let townies finish him.
I think I have figured out Koshi's play this game. Since out last game together he now checks under the bed for me before he goes to sleep.
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On July 29 2013 01:47 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 01:46 hzflank wrote:On July 29 2013 01:43 Oatsmaster wrote:On July 29 2013 01:37 Koshi wrote:On July 29 2013 01:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
Koshi, why are you making lists in this game and in NONE of your other games?
Why are you not providing much reasoning for any of those reads. Why do you not seem to care who dies? I feel like being countvoncount this game. I gave reasoning for all my names. Or it is obvious. Why should I care? I would like it to be scum, I would really like it to be not me. Why should you care who dies? Who the fuck has this kind of mindset as town? "I dont care who dies, I dont want it to be me. " GUYS WANNA LYNCH KOSHI? I might be reading too much into this, but that may be a trap aimed at me. Koshi knows that scum-me would jump on him for that but not push it too hard, because it would be too easy to just let townies finish him. I think I have figured out Koshi's play this game. Since out last game together he now checks under the bed for me before he goes to sleep. You were quite scary in that game.
So what are you doing this game?
If you are town then you must realise that you position is becoming increasingly precarious. As town you are currently an easy lynch target that anyone can attack and anyone can vote for without even looking at all scummy. That is not a good position for a townie to get into.
I am trying to figure out your gameplan here but the best I can see is that you have some kind of meta-vendatta against me and just want to catch me out as scum. You were better than this in the previous game.
You must appreciate that if I cannot figure out how you are playing to win as town then it looks a lot like you are playing to win as scum. And do not tell me that you are not playing to win as I do not buy that sort of thing at all.
Whose filters have you read recently? Did you find anything interesting? Do you have any in-game reasons for wanting to lynch me?
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EPT
