EPTI Swear This Is Normal Mini Mafia 2 - Page 3
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 25 2013 05:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: It doesn't. But tha's why I'm more confident in killing stutters than Sylencia. Stutters playing scummy would (if my theory about Sylencia being more of a lynch bait than stutters, that is) make him more likely to be scum than if Sylencia was playing scummy.Ehh. Lazer, how does someone being a lynchbait if town make them town, or not worth lynching? Regarding the vigi-double-lynch discussion. Rainbows had a couple of really bad posts in that one. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 25 2013 05:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: That and that the fact that he is was actively ignoring any form of scum hunting.So your only reason for Stuytters being more scummy than Sylencia is because Sylencia is more of a lynchbait than Stutters? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Koshi, if Rayn and Malango really are scum, why don't you try to convince us that they are? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 25 2013 06:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:SNIP I was about to write some stuff but realized my argument was really bad. You are correct in that they are both ignoring scum hunting. Still, I would be more comfortable with killing Stutters.Lazer: I already asked this, but. How is Stutters ignoring any form of scumhunting but Sylencia is not? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 25 2013 06:47 Stutters695 wrote: Yhea, I can come up with a 2 really good reasons.I'm assuming this is what you say I'm ignoring. The bolded part: If true then he lied about sending a PM to kill someone then sending another to cancel it. This isn't likely at all from either perspective as it creates a lie that is easily verifiable and would cause his lynch/mislynch over nothing. Thus I assume he actually did send the PM. Why would he send that PM as either alignment? Town: He's taking a shot on the 3/11 probability of hitting scum. Unlikely without some other plan. It certainly wasn't to pressure a lurker since the game had been only going for a couple hours. Scum: He thinks it's a good idea to take the free KP before town uses it. Sends in the PM and tells his scum buddies. They flip their shit since their KP probably drops to 1 at 2 scum and we'd lynch him for a clearly retarded shot and they would actually lose KP so he reneged on his shot. I don't see any town explanation that comes even close to the scum one so I think he's scum unless he has a damn good reason for it 1. It forces Rayn in a wierd spot. If he was to be scum he might panic and actually belive he will get shot. In that case he might stop posting completely (something rayn did not do) to avoid giving unnecesary information to town. 2. It creates discussion at a point where too much effort was spent on pointless policy discussions. Also, regarding the PM thing. Sure it would create a lie that we could verify but why the fuck should we lynch him for that? He could at any time claim that he lied and there would be no big deal about it. Also, you say that from an optimal pov town shouldn't do this, and even if assume that that IS the optimal play, there is nothing that would guarantee that he would do that. Town are, in my experience, much more inclined to do random "dumb" stuff like this without thinking it through 100% because they aren't so afraid of getting lynched as scum are. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Yes, why couldn't he be lying? Give me one reason. Why cannot prove him false anyway. His claim means jack shit. And why are you ignoring the fact that this is a fucking closed setup? There could be 9 VT claiming and for all we know it could actually be correct because we don't know what setup this is. Also, lynch all liars is a terrible policy. lying about being VT in this setup isn't alignment indicative at all. It doesn't hurt town or help scum. Its 100% null. I don't think you are the best lynch atm, read the thread better please. And lastly, HOW DID THIS MAKE ME SCUMMY? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:32 FirmTofu wrote: That wasn't really your point at all. And you got it all backwards. I was the first to suspect you but not because of the kenpachi thing but because of your wierd take on ShiaoPi's claim. ShiaoPi was the one to agree with my suspicions on you. At this point I didn't think Shiao was town, just null. It was first later on when during his interactions with Rayn when I thought he was town, I still do. I don't see how this doesn't make any sense.I know you don't think I'm the best lynch anymore, but at one point, you did. Of course he can be lying. It is a possibility. My point is, why did you feel the need to specifically point it out and then proceed to buddy him for a lynch of me? If SP's claim is truly null to you, why did you act as if he was town and I was scum? Your behavior doesn't make any sense. Also, why am I scummy? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:36 Stutters695 wrote: 1. Yes, but this is once again assuming perfect play. With perfect scum play it would be impossible to ever lynch scum. The reason we can do so IS because scum makes mistakes. And being put in a trap, especially when you can be under stress could definitly cause mistakes. @Lazer 1) it doesn't affect Rayn at all IMO. If he's scum he has to assume he'll live since otherwise he has to explain why he checked out when he wasn't dead. If he's town it makes no difference. 2) It did not really create content. He didn't even tell us it happened. That clearly isn't with the intent of discussion if he never discussed it. There is a difference between sub-optimal play and play that has no value to town. 2. There is a diference between "it didn't create content" and "it was susposed to create content". | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Some quick thoughts Guys I'm having town reads on: Rayn ShaioPi Z-Boson Have all put in a resonable amount of effort and their logic seems okay in most cases, I wouldn't want to lynch any of these guys today Guys that are neutral: Dandel Artanis (though mostly because i haven't read him) Rainbows (while his post about policy was bad, I think his play in general has been decent) Guys that makes my brain hurt: Malongo koshi Both these guys have the wierdest logic, haven't pushed their scum reads etc. I just don't know what to think really... In one hand I do think their play is bad and maybe even scummy. At the same time, I get a feeling that they are both quite inexperienced (have someone played with these before? am I correct about this?) and they are both getting alot of attention to themself, which I generally don't see scum do. Guys I'm okay with lynching: Stutters Sylencia FirmTofu In order of preferance, read my filter for why I want to kill them... | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 24 2013 21:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I said Rayn and Firm are scum because kenpachi gambit. That's two scum already. You guys can find the rest. Your stuff is weak. On July 25 2013 00:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Doubtful, it's creating actual scumhunting discussion where setup discussion was taking place. Shiao is probably town. That's not what's happening, it's helped trigger scumhunting. On July 25 2013 09:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote: All these times he clearly disagrees with said player, yet he is very reluctant to be taking an actual stance on the player. If he would think that these players are town, then I don't really see any problem with these posts because then he could be leading the thread in the right direction. But he doesn't have a town read on them, at least not that we know of. If pressuring without voting is scummy then you're looking pretty scummy according to your own logic. You should probably get that logic checked out. I want to hear Malongo talk about things that aren't about speed dating pairings. Dandel is probably town but my feelings are hurt that he called me scum. I'm sad now. I'm a bit torn on Artanis right now. He looks somewhat bad though I don't think I want to lynch him. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Also, there are alot of guys agreeing with my logic here which you even point out yourself. Why is it that I am scummy but not them? Do you seriously think scum would be the one to start the "suicidal and very stupid plan" and that a bunch of townies just sheeped it. Because I would actually argue its the other way around. Scum are very afraid of saying stuff that could cause them to look bad, like a "suicidal and very stupid plan", however if a plan like that is started by a townie then they could very well be sheeping that. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 26 2013 00:02 Sylencia wrote: You just went full retard, never go full retard...I've already read it, and I explained how the post is literally setup to help scum. The reason why people agree is because it sounds sensible. Someone's about to die, and so they'll take the shot because they think their partner is scum. Sounds great in theory, but if you think about how it's done in practice it's a crappy idea. Also, plans aren't about how suicidal they are, it's about how well you can sell the idea. It's the same with pushing for a lynch - if you're convincing enough you'll push the wagon all the way and everyone will hop on. In any case, completely brushing off the possibility that one team can perform an action because it's high risk is silly, I prefer to keep an open mind about things. Great, you know this happens in most of the games I'm in already having played with me a few times, where I find it difficult to properly find reads. Rather than rehashing the same argument over and over again, how about you target someone you know isn't lynchbait every game. Like literally everything in this post is just so fucking BS I cannot even believe it. Its mind blowing really. Take a step back and look through everything and try to have an open mind. Its clear at this point that you are either scum panicing or town in super-tunnel-bias mode. Let me brake this down for you. I'm not even going to comment on the policy thing. I heavily disagree with you as you know but its not even relevant at this point. As I said before, you must understand that those types of policies really requires everyone to accept in order to actually be valuable. This is simple logic. Right now, you'll have to convince alot of guys to do that. And you aren't trying. So this policy really means nothing whether you like it or not. The second part. Well, your are being super dumb once again. I never said scum couldn't be doing something like this. Let me summerize our conversation really fast You: Lazer is scum because his idea helps scum Me: Well, even if we ignore the fact that it doesn't help scum, why does this mean that just I am scum? What about the other guys on the wagon? In my experience scum are more likely to be sheeping a bad idea of a townie that to be the one who is starting a bad idea that THEN gets sheeped by townies. You: Just because its high risk for scum doesn't mean they cannot do that. So what are we left with? Well I STILL DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE HOW YOU COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT I AM SCUM! Please explain why I am scum, why those who aren't on the wagon aren't scum. How does any of your arguments show that I am scum instead of missguided townie? Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean that that person is scum... Also if you think that what convinces people that a plan or a lynch is correct is just the amount of time and dedication you put into it, then you are really really stupid. A bad argument should never ever convince a whole town no matter how much you try to convince everyone. The last part Rayn already talked about. You can't argue yourself out of all suspiciouns just by saying you are a lynch bait because if you did, you would win every time you were scum... | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On July 26 2013 00:56 FirmTofu wrote: We really realy should consolidate though. If we split our votes up more then every scum vote will be relatively stronger. Also, if you just vote your biggest scum read but that read happend to be someone who isn't gaining alot of votes, you are indirectly voting for the player with the most votes at the time. You might have to go for a guy thats not your top scum read but rather your second or third to prevent guys you don't think are scummy to get lynched. We should aim to pin the pynch between 2 players or at tops 3. Everyone should comment on ALL of the candidates and say in which one they want to lynch the most, second most etc. And we really should do it ASAP as alot of guys will not be able to attend at the deadline. I will try to be there but I can't really promise and I have full respect, especially for the europeans, if they are unable to attend.We don't necessarily need to consolidate because it's plurality lynch. You should be voting your biggest scum read, not sheeping a wagon. For me the list is currently: Stutters Sylencia FT Artanis or maybe Koshi | ||
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