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On July 24 2013 20:45 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 20:35 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Malongo: What is your opinion on FirmTofu? Not so firm. But no that mafiaso either. If we are looking lynch targets I rather lynch a non poster. There are at least 4 people that have yet to post once. Lynching a participative player is dumb when mafia is more likely to be inactive.
Assume for a second that there are no other players besides those who have posted until now. Who do you want to kill?
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ebwop: why koshi? why not artanis or dandel or rainbows or stutters who have done exactly the same thing? what makes koshi stand out?
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On July 24 2013 20:50 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 20:48 ShiaoPi wrote:
ebwop: why koshi? why not artanis or dandel or rainbows or stutters who have done exactly the same thing? what makes koshi stand out? I answered 2 questions already.
and that makes you unable to answer more questions?
No to koshi right now.
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@Dandel: Read the thread and come back with something useful then.
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Look where my vote is. Firmtofu is my lynch of choice today.
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On July 24 2013 21:03 Malongo wrote:
I just named one inactive, it could have been anyone but Koshi is also playing Sicilian mafia, so i guess he could have posted here too. Aside from that nothing special, there was also Artanis, Dandel, Rainbows and Stutter.
Do you really think that we have a better shot on an active player than the inactives pool?
If you checked the timestamps of his last posts in sicilian you could see that he has not been posting since our game started, probably just no time I would guess.
And yes I believe to have a better shot on an active player. Since lynching somebody who has not even posted yet is fucking stupid beyond measure. you might as well flip a coin
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On July 24 2013 21:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So let me get this straigth ShiaoPi. This is your thought process:
I am scum because i did discuss your claim and wanted to know your reasons for claiming VT. You say i should have focused on other things like QT-talk, which i did. At the same time you accuse FirmTofu of being wishy-washy about the QT-thingy (asking useless questions). By that logic i should come up as townie to you, because i did what you by your own words expect from a townie. You say Z-Boson did a townie thing by saying your claim is not alignment indicative. Guess what. I said that too, i said your reasons for the claim might be alignment indicative. Z-Boson however implies he is supicious of you in the very same post, when activity is really not a thing that's alignment indicative, at least in the first 12 hours of the game. You take that as a face value, actually you YOURSELF call your actions (or rather lack of them - activity) scummy, but when i state my reasons for my actions you are not willing to even try to understand them.
By using that logic i could say you are scum because you fucked up at the start. You can't explain that, it is set in the stone. But i am not, so can you now clarify your thought process to me.
are you familiar with the kenpachi rule?
I just used it on you and firmtofu. The point is there is no need for a townie to discuss my claim in any way larger than a passing notice of "alright, let's see what you deliver the following days".
Your reaction of first trying to paint me scummy and then backtracking is exactly the scummy reaction I was hoping to receive. Scum will jump on the claim since it is such an easy way to "contribute" and "scumhunt". I do not deny that you were doing correct things as well (such as discussing QT-things). On ZBoson, the important thing is he is not basing his suspicions on the claim but rather on activity, which is a better measure than a VT-claim.
You discussing QT-stuff is also the reason you are only my secondary scumread at the moment. FirmTofu is a much more certain scum to me than you right now. What I dislike is your vote on me and attempting to twist my words in the discussion we had earlier.
I do not understand what you are trying to say in your last sentence btw. Are you saying I fucked up at start and therefore must be scum?
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On July 24 2013 21:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am saying you are saying so. I am not familiar with the Kenpachi rule and i don't even care because i did not call you scummy because of your claim. God, why is that so hard to understand?
Tell me, what else does that mean:
On July 24 2013 15:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:
i am here.
ShiaoPi what the hell? Why did you claim vt?
Also everyone shoud be sharing their identity in mason QT's, the people who don't should be killed. If your mason partner does not share their identity kill them. There is no reason not to share that information.
"what the hell" implies that you think of this claim as negatively
On July 24 2013 15:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 15:10 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, @rayne
You seem a little disgruntled that ShiaoPi claimed VT. Why the negative reaction? Because the claim is either stupid or scum.
saying that the claim is either stupid or scum, is indirectly calling me scummy.
On July 24 2013 15:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 15:21 Z-BosoN wrote:On July 24 2013 15:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 24 2013 15:10 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, @rayne
You seem a little disgruntled that ShiaoPi claimed VT. Why the negative reaction? Because the claim is either stupid or scum. Its a pointless claim no matter what alignment he is.However, I dislike the fact that he just waltzed into the thread with that pointless post and has not posted anything since... That's my point. There is no reason he should do that as town whether or not he actually is a vt.
This post implies that I am not town to you.
On July 24 2013 16:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 15:51 Z-BosoN wrote:On July 24 2013 15:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 24 2013 15:21 Z-BosoN wrote:On July 24 2013 15:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 24 2013 15:10 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, @rayne
You seem a little disgruntled that ShiaoPi claimed VT. Why the negative reaction? Because the claim is either stupid or scum. Its a pointless claim no matter what alignment he is.However, I dislike the fact that he just waltzed into the thread with that pointless post and has not posted anything since... That's my point. There is no reason he should do that as town whether or not he actually is a vt. Theres no reason he should do that as scum either. I wouldnt care for that at all if he had contributed in some more useful manner later on. Is the claim solely the biggest issue you have with shiaopi? That's the only thing ShiaoPi has posted, how could anything else be an issue with him? I know the claim is not alignment indicative in itself, but ShiaoPi's reasons sure are. There is a reason he said what he did, and i want to know what his reasons were. Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 15:47 Z-BosoN wrote:On July 24 2013 15:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What do you think of Sylencia? Well, theres only like two pages of content, so theres not really much I can say. He's a little slow with the posts, but thats not alignment indicative. Anything caught your attention? Sylencia asks people about if mason-partners should reveal their identity to each other. However he himself seems to have no stance on that. That's what caught my attention. Sylencia: Do you think mason partners should reveal their identity to each other? Why/why not?
This is where you backpedal
On July 24 2013 19:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oh shit. You actually did say you really are a VT.
##Vote: ShiaoPi
and finally this does say pretty surely that you think of me as scum.
Did I miss anything?
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On July 24 2013 21:29 Malongo wrote:
Hey ShiaoPi dont you really think that Lazermonkey is far better lynch target?
Would you care to elaborate on that?
I currently don't see a reason to kill him
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@Malongo:
The thing is Lazer does not know it. He even says it explicitly that he is assuming the following 3 things.
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I am not sure on that. From a hosting perspective it does make sense to have scum not paired with scum and since the setup is closed it is unlikely that we will get answers for that anyway.
It is a nice detail you found, something to keep in mind but not convincing me enought to switch of FirmTofu right now.
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@rayn:
We can agree to disagree on the interpretation of your posts. Still you and FirmTofu were the only persons to really react in a suspicious manner to the claim so that is the point where I am standing.
Who is your lynch-choice now that you have unvoted?
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On July 24 2013 22:04 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 21:59 Dandel Ion wrote:On July 24 2013 21:56 Malongo wrote:On July 24 2013 21:48 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Malongo:
The thing is Lazer does not know it. He even says it explicitly that he is assuming the following 3 things. So, let me guess, he is assuming that every mafia is paired to a townie, yet he is assuming the pairing is random? That is something only mafia knows. How does mafia know the way the pairings get paired? I meant that mafia knows if they got 2 of them paired. Lazer is assuming there were no mafia paired *but* that the pairing is random. Do you see the flaw? If he really thinks the pairing is random there is no way to assume a 1-1 pairing unless you actually noted that mafia is not paired together.
If you just go with the numbers and the probabilities involved a 1-1 pairing instead of a doublescum pairing in the qt is more likely.
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Okay looks like Rayn is still alive and malango's shot was either fake or the recall was accepted.
Not sure what to make of that right now.
@Zboson:
Rayn is still scummy to a certain degree, I initially thought him more scummier than tofu, but thought he would be dead already so I voted FT. Now I am of the opinion that a FT lynch is actually pretty good.
Let's examine FT a little further, especially the posts he did when he came back.
First off the defense in regards to his reaction to the VT claim:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 25 2013 06:45 FirmTofu wrote:
I have no idea what this Kenpachi rule is but it is clearly a terrible way to find scum because I am town.
I'm going to explain exactly why I didn't like ShiaoPi's VT claim. You can decide whether my reasoning is scummy but don't give me this bullshit "Kenpachi rule" to justify your suspicions.
Why Claiming VT As Town Is Bad
Alright, so we are assuming the claimer is town. Great. Why is this bad play? Let me explain.
There are two situations possible if you are town.
You are either:
1) Blue claiming VT
2) VT claiming VT
1-> I think we can all agree that blue claiming VT is a terrible idea. It introduces unnecessary confusion in the town and serves no purpose.
2-> This is a little more debatable. Let's assume for a second that claiming VT as VT is a good play. If it was good, then everyone should agree that all VTs should claim VT, right?
Okay, let's play out what happens when all VT's claim VT.
Assuming some sort of balance with 6VT, 3Blue, 3Scum... we will have 6 VT claiming VT. However, this forces scum into a decision point. Do they claim VT or remain unclaimed?
If they choose to remain unclaimed, they would be associating themselves with the 3 blues. If they claim VT, they would be associating themselves with the VTs. Town would be subject to a mass roleclaim and it would be impossible to discern alignments because scum could have just as easily fakeclaimed into either grouping.
Town learns absolutely nothing and scum would easily be able to pick out the blues one by one while hiding in a sea of VTs barring fake roleclaims from town.
If you agree with this scenario, you must agree that claiming VT as VT is not good town play.
I really disagree with a lot of those points. First off it is mainly arguing from setup speculation. He does not say anything about the fact that a vt claim like I did is pretty much a throwaway thing and null.
Now in regards to his scumhunting post: On July 25 2013 07:23 FirmTofu wrote:
A few things I don't like.
1) ShiaoPi makes a hell of a case against Rayn but still thinks I am somehow more scummy than him.
2) LazerMonkey seems to think SP's VT claim could be a lie and is therefore null. Why does he pursue me instead of SP?
3) Rayn thinks I'm scummy for the same reasons that everyone else thought he was scummy. What? If you aren't scum and people are accusing you and me of the same scumtell, then you have to believe that the scumtell is not alignment indicative with regards to me.
4) Artanis said he could support a lynch on me or rayn, but never followed through with a vote on either of us. Sounds like scum trying to decide which town wagon to hop on.
5) Dandel Ion is being spammy, unproductive, and annoying.
1) explained it above already
2) It is rather obvious that Lazer thinks FT scummy so it is logical that Lazer is going after a scumleaning read instead of a null one??
3) Rayn is a scummy guy, we can agree on that.
4)This is something FT himself is guilty off, when you go through his posts later. He is pressuring but votes nobody.
5) I am not really a great fan of meta but this pretty much says that dandel is town.
That is his entire contribution for day 1 until now. Not very impressive, and these 5 points are all he got out from this thread?
Especially the point on Artanis really rubs me in a bad way. FT is scum, go kill him!
Somebody else who really got my attention was Rainbows.
He completely derails the thread with his policytalk (together with Koshi). My point on the proposed doublelynch is that it is not feasibly since you cannot assume that everyone will cooperate, so basically it is just a huge waste of time and might be a good thing for scum to appear contributing, while not actually doing so. Also the exchange he had with Dandel regarding his reads struck me as terribly scummy.....
Finally his case on artanis is weird. It feels forced and is not really convincing (at least to me). WHile it is true that artanis has not been one of the more vocal persons in thread I don't see anything lynchworthy right now. What is also interesting is that he has not commented on rayn or FT besides a I dont like the FT wagon.
Let me summarize a bit:
For day 1 I am interested in lynching into one of these: FT, Rainbows, Rayn. Would be most happy with a FT lynch.
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On July 26 2013 00:02 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 20:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Vote: Sylencia
Only setup speculation. He has not done anything else in the whole game. ANYTHING ELSE, and it's been over a day since the game started. He is not interested in finding mafia. Only thing that comes even close to scumhunting is his case against Lazer, which is one big assumtion and bad. Great, you know this happens in most of the games I'm in already having played with me a few times, where I find it difficult to properly find reads. Rather than rehashing the same argument over and over again, how about you target someone you know isn't lynchbait every game.
quote ftw
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@koshi:
what makes FT so town that you are willing to just sheep his vote? what happened to your own scumreads?
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On Malongo I am really unsure.
True that post is terribad, but the entire thing with the shot is iffy. If he was faking it, it was actually some good play, but dunno. I am more comfortable with the 3 I mentioned earlier
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ebwop: elaborating on malongo, what I don't believe is that scum would do such a move (publicly announcing the shot, more or less to his QT partner). It gains waaay too much attention too early in this game. why not just kill him and try explaining afterwards? On the more scummy side of malongo things we also have that "threat" thing he posted in the QT. I really did not like that.
Actually I would probably be fine lynching him too (now that I am thinking more about him), but still FT sits better with me. Probably something along the lines of lynch these guys: FT -> Rayn->Rainbows/Malongo
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EPT
