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Ok, just a few more things from my perspective:
This was my third game as a cohost, the other two were newbies were I was just doing vote-counts. They did not really prepare me for what I would have to deal with in this game.
My biggest mistake was that I forgot about Bluelightz message regarding Zephirdd. Paired with my inexperience, this led to me sticking with "12 players - 7 majority" on D1 when I probably should have let TanGeng lynched with 6.
The other little mistake was the already mentioned mix up of majority and plurality, although I think that while it was an annoyment for the players, it had no real impact on the outcome.
Regarding Cora's self-check, I stuck to what Bluelightz told me to do. At that time I thought it was fine, because i thought Cora would come back immediatly after getting the result on N1 asking what was going on. I really did not expect him to just speculate in a different direction. I start to understand now why people are so upset about it.
On July 31 2013 15:44 WaveofShadow wrote:
To try and play devil's advocate a little here, I have never heard of anyone DT checking themselves in a game.
I assume that Bluelightz had no desire to let you break his game in that way, but the way it was dealt with by returning the role instead of an alignment really fucked things up.
DrH really fucked things up.
The fact that one of our players was completely not present for the first day of voting (and some questionable afks and then returns) really fucked things up.
I'm still not sure why I should have modkilled DrH instead of replacing him. Yes, he broke the rules by self-voting, but I don't think he did it on purpose, more by oversight.
Bluelightz will ask for a ban for him, as far as I understood it from our PMs.
Finally regarding the game: People relied to much on the blues' abilities. Also, people STILL don't read the posts of dead townies. 5T had DrH as scum N1 and was later suspicious of Onegu, and getmoript had TAA and JJD as scum. Just going back and reading those (who were the strongest town players in this game) could have helped town to pin down the remaining scum.
Also, the way the teams turned out hugely favored town. 5T is a very strong town hydra, so is getmoript. Austin, cora, Oats are all able of strong town play, to mention some. But with inactivity, strange plays and fake claims town also managed to successfully destroy themselves.
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On July 31 2013 16:08 FirmTofu wrote:
I'm going to try and remain impartial as I write this, but here are my list of grievances to the hosts so they can, hopefully, improve their hosting. Take it as constructive criticism.
1) Setup was improperly balanced.
You can't give scum 2 power roles, one being a mafia-vig, and not give town some sort of power role with guaranteed scumhunting power. There should have been a DT that at least knew he was sane. That way, we could evaluate the others based on his checks. We need some sort of grounding. We can never be sure that someone's checks are correct, the roles are worthless.
As far as I know Bluelightz checked the setup with Foolishness, who approved it, so perhaps we need to get that feedback to him as well somehow?
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On July 31 2013 16:12 phagga wrote:
Finally regarding the game: People relied to much on the blues' abilities. Also, people STILL don't read the posts of dead townies. 5T had DrH as scum N1 and was later suspicious of Onegu, and getmoript had TAA and JJD as scum. Just going back and reading those (who were the strongest town players in this game) could have helped town to pin down the remaining scum.
Also, the way the teams turned out hugely favored town. 5T is a very strong town hydra, so is getmoript. Austin, cora, Oats are all able of strong town play, to mention some. But with inactivity, strange plays and fake claims town also managed to successfully destroy themselves.
Just because they had the some of the right reads doesn't mean they had the right reasons. You can't really blame us for not following dead town's reads. Getmoript also found me scummy. Why should I believe his reads if he doesn't even get me right? Everyone had DrH as scum N1. I don't know why you're singling 5T out.
Of all the town, Austin played the best game by far. His reads may not have been the best but based on what he knew at the time, he was playing well. There were far too many variables in the setup to find scum with a high degree of probability so "reads" don't dictate who played well at all.
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On July 31 2013 16:22 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 16:12 phagga wrote:
Finally regarding the game: People relied to much on the blues' abilities. Also, people STILL don't read the posts of dead townies. 5T had DrH as scum N1 and was later suspicious of Onegu, and getmoript had TAA and JJD as scum. Just going back and reading those (who were the strongest town players in this game) could have helped town to pin down the remaining scum.
Also, the way the teams turned out hugely favored town. 5T is a very strong town hydra, so is getmoript. Austin, cora, Oats are all able of strong town play, to mention some. But with inactivity, strange plays and fake claims town also managed to successfully destroy themselves. Just because they had the some of the right reads doesn't mean they had the right reasons. You can't really blame us for not following dead town's reads. Getmoript also found me scummy. Why should I believe his reads if he doesn't even get me right? Everyone had DrH as scum N1. I don't know why you're singling 5T out. Of all the town, Austin played the best game by far. His reads may not have been the best but based on what he knew at the time, he was playing well. There were far too many variables in the setup to find scum with a high degree of probability so "reads" don't dictate who played well at all.
I agree that austin was also playing strong. I'm singling 5T out because he also was suspicious of Onegu, something noone picked up. He also repeatedly said that role = alignement, but noone listened.
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On July 31 2013 16:12 phagga wrote:Ok, just a few more things from my perspective: This was my third game as a cohost, the other two were newbies were I was just doing vote-counts. They did not really prepare me for what I would have to deal with in this game. My biggest mistake was that I forgot about Bluelightz message regarding Zephirdd. Paired with my inexperience, this led to me sticking with "12 players - 7 majority" on D1 when I probably should have let TanGeng lynched with 6. The other little mistake was the already mentioned mix up of majority and plurality, although I think that while it was an annoyment for the players, it had no real impact on the outcome. Regarding Cora's self-check, I stuck to what Bluelightz told me to do. At that time I thought it was fine, because i thought Cora would come back immediatly after getting the result on N1 asking what was going on. I really did not expect him to just speculate in a different direction. I start to understand now why people are so upset about it. Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 15:44 WaveofShadow wrote:
To try and play devil's advocate a little here, I have never heard of anyone DT checking themselves in a game.
I assume that Bluelightz had no desire to let you break his game in that way, but the way it was dealt with by returning the role instead of an alignment really fucked things up.
DrH really fucked things up.
The fact that one of our players was completely not present for the first day of voting (and some questionable afks and then returns) really fucked things up.
I'm still not sure why I should have modkilled DrH instead of replacing him. Yes, he broke the rules by self-voting, but I don't think he did it on purpose, more by oversight. Bluelightz will ask for a ban for him, as far as I understood it from our PMs. Finally regarding the game: People relied to much on the blues' abilities. Also, people STILL don't read the posts of dead townies. 5T had DrH as scum N1 and was later suspicious of Onegu, and getmoript had TAA and JJD as scum. Just going back and reading those (who were the strongest town players in this game) could have helped town to pin down the remaining scum. Also, the way the teams turned out hugely favored town. 5T is a very strong town hydra, so is getmoript. Austin, cora, Oats are all able of strong town play, to mention some. But with inactivity, strange plays and fake claims town also managed to successfully destroy themselves.
I appreciate this response, Phagga.
A couple things to say about this:
This is Bluelightz's game. How much of this game were you in charge of? As far as I know, most co-hosting duties do fall to votecounts and similar low-game-impact jobs unless asked otherwise by the host. From the sounds of it Bluelightz may have left you in the lurch here when he should have been dealing with much of this himself---if he was not capable of doing so he should not have been hosting.
As far as DrH is concerned---the self-vote modkill would have been a modkill based on a technicality. I was honestly more pissed at his choice of gameplay (as well as Oats' to be honest). If you're going to sign up for a game, you need to fucking play it. I understand people get busy, travel, etc. The fair thing to do is either to find time to post and put in at least a modicum of effort, or to replace out earlier on. DrH did neither of those things, and his following blowup directly influenced the game direction. In my opinion he should have been modkilled for his decision to replace out the way he did, rather than for voting himself, because it was not really the self-vote that caused the issue (not to mention self-voting is often allowed in many games).
I completely agree with your assessment of the game otherwise, Phagga. Town was STACKED and should have taken this to the bank. A combination of activity issues, massive derps, shit and/or antitown play, and host fuckups/technicalities made this impossible. It would have been nice if the one thing essentially out of our control (host issues) didn't exist to mess with the outcome so the game could truly be blamed only on the town but as it's just not true, sadly a small part of the scum win is tarnished for them imo.
I accept this loss and will move on; I am still ultimately more pissed at some players in this game than the setup.
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Yeah Phagga I will give you some credit. Bluelightz kind of screwed you over and went afk. It's brave of you to take all of the heat for shit that wasn't entirely your fault. I'm sorry for being an asshole on my last few posts.
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Honestly I could've played better, it's true. I was AFK alot more than I should've been. But at least I was right on the TG being town call, eh?
I think everything here's been discussed: scum favored setup, questionable replacement, questionable cop check, poor town play.
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I'd love to see Bluelightz stop hiding behind Phagga and actually talk about all this.
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Cora, you tried to game the setup.
You failed.
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On July 31 2013 16:57 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cora, you tried to game the setup.
You failed.
If I was "gaming the setup", why was I given the chance to do so?
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Ok well I'm going to bed but I'm going to lay out my questions for Bluelightz.
1. Did you get this setup checked?
2. Why did you let me check myself if it was against what was said in my role pm?
3. Why was I a rolecop one night and an alignment cop the next?
And talk about the DrH thing too. Idk what to ask specifically cause I missed it.
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On July 31 2013 16:58 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 16:57 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cora, you tried to game the setup.
You failed. If I was "gaming the setup", why was I given the chance to do so?
You were given the chance because the hosts are benevolent.
Also, I dunno, ask more questions.
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Was at school for most day/night posts. To cora, you played a wonderful game and about first: it was stupid of me not to just ban you from checking yourself, but my mind was a compkete idiot that day and I allowed It (my fault). Phagga ppsted most of the day and night posts because the deadlinr became shit for me once school started.
Also to cora:
Rolecop because you already have all the information you would need on yourself.
Alignment because it was the proper result.
Any blame for mistakes rest on me and I can't thank phagga enough for handling much of the game.
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On July 31 2013 17:31 Bluelightz wrote:
Was at school for most day/night posts. To cora, you played a wonderful game and about first: it was stupid of me not to just ban you from checking yourself, but my mind was a compkete idiot that day and I allowed It (my fault). Phagga ppsted most of the day and night posts because the deadlinr became shit for me once school started.
Also to cora:
Rolecop because you already have all the information you would need on yourself.
Alignment because it was the proper result.
Any blame for mistakes rest on me and I can't thank phagga enough for handling much of the game.
Just curious, but why didn't you just choose a different time for day/night posts?
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Here's the real bottom line: As town we failed. I think the setup was against us slightly, but this was very capable of being in our grasp. I should've done a better job on convincing people to lynch TAA and JJD. Hell my other half wasn't fully on board with the JJD lynch. Take what you've learned and move on. That's really all that can be done at this point.
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On July 31 2013 17:42 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 17:31 Bluelightz wrote:
Was at school for most day/night posts. To cora, you played a wonderful game and about first: it was stupid of me not to just ban you from checking yourself, but my mind was a compkete idiot that day and I allowed It (my fault). Phagga ppsted most of the day and night posts because the deadlinr became shit for me once school started.
Also to cora:
Rolecop because you already have all the information you would need on yourself.
Alignment because it was the proper result.
Any blame for mistakes rest on me and I can't thank phagga enough for handling much of the game. Just curious, but why didn't you just choose a different time for day/night posts?
That's partially my fault. The original deadline was 5 hours earlier, which was at 3am in the morning for me. Bluelightz agreed to move the deadline.
To put this into perspective, that was in the beginning of June. I think Bluelightz did not expect the game to take so long until it gets started.
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Man, I just realized what I could've done to save the game... I could've fake claimed doc N2, in order to WIFOM the scum out of shooting getmoript (and shooting me instead). Under the pretense of trying not to get shot by Onegu, scum totally would've believed such a claim. I feel stupid for not thinking of it.
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I'm sick of scum doing tactical replacements, really sick, especially since smurf mafia.
I'd actually like if only 1 replacement for scum was allowed for each game, and only for good reasons.
Onegu and JJD still played very well. That Onegu vig claim was the shit Wifom-wise, and he simply looked A LOT like a townie who didn't know how to play vig, plus the fact that he did not have to claim, and JJD blended in very well.
The guy who got me to push discussion in the first place durnig the last day was Onegu, and the guy responding was mainly JJD, that already says a lot.
gg to scum
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Vivax... JJD did not blend well. He was caught, he just killed his snoop. With how much JJD was pushing behind you instead of pushing for his own reasons should've been a good tell. C'mon man.
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On July 31 2013 18:23 geript wrote:
Vivax... JJD did not blend well. He was caught, he just killed his snoop. With how much JJD was pushing behind you instead of pushing for his own reasons should've been a good tell. C'mon man.
I realized how absent he was through most of the game, but I decided already that one of kirby/TG had to be scum.
Then I thought, "well if he's scum maybe he's agreeing on pushing TG cause kriby is his scumbuddy". So I went back to kirby and told myself that I'd look at JJD if kirby flipped scum.
I didn't look yet, vut did I even have a chance at convincing FT and TG to switch to JJD?They weren't in the thread at the moment I left.
Thanks for hosting anyways
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EPT
