|
On July 17 2013 04:30 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:19 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I didn't understand Chrom's roleblock claim. Did any analysis come of that? Were we able to deduce anything? You always claim roleblocks, it helps on later nights. Who do you want to lynch?
No clear target right now. Super needs to post more or he becomes a frontrunner to hang. Gotard needs to give me his scum reads. I'm still waiting to see who else puts their vote on me. Alakaslam is oddly silent, but I've directed questions to him that he should be answering when he gets back. (Xzavier is my pick for SK. No one has answered my appeal to the thread on whether or not it would be worth it to try to ferret out the SK at this time.)
|
Chrom's roleblock claim might be interesting to me. I am missing a couple of pieces to a puzzle at the moment though. If I get to the point where it becomes relevant I will post about it. Otherwise it might become useful to everyone on day 3.
PR associations are extremely difficult when all we have are 3 VT flips, 1 RB claim and an unidentified SK.
|
EBWOP
I am in no way calling Chrom scum. In fact I think that he is town.
|
On July 17 2013 04:36 hzflank wrote:
Chrom's roleblock claim might be interesting to me. I am missing a couple of pieces to a puzzle at the moment though. If I get to the point where it becomes relevant I will post about it. Otherwise it might become useful to everyone on day 3.
PR associations are extremely difficult when all we have are 3 VT flips, 1 RB claim and an unidentified SK.
Dat tactical fuzzy-claim
|
SK might have been playing pro-town D1, he'll be more obvious over time.
hz, why do you think that Sponge is scum?
|
On July 17 2013 04:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:36 hzflank wrote:
Chrom's roleblock claim might be interesting to me. I am missing a couple of pieces to a puzzle at the moment though. If I get to the point where it becomes relevant I will post about it. Otherwise it might become useful to everyone on day 3.
PR associations are extremely difficult when all we have are 3 VT flips, 1 RB claim and an unidentified SK. Dat tactical fuzzy-claim
That was not a soft-claim.
It's just that I have been reading certain parts of the thread very carefully. Lets drop this line of discussion, for now.
|
On July 17 2013 04:43 Chromatically wrote:
SK might have been playing pro-town D1, he'll be more obvious over time.
hz, why do you think that Sponge is scum?
Sponge should not be able to avoid pressure by saying that anyone who pressure's him is scum. If anyone wants to pressure Sponge then that does not make them look scummy to me.
It's early in the day and Sponge is the best place to leave my vote. I did not like that Sponge refused to defend Onegu's case, because it stopped conversation about it from flowing. I could of defended Onegu's case reasonably well, but Sponge refused to do it himself.
|
On July 17 2013 04:53 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:43 Chromatically wrote:
SK might have been playing pro-town D1, he'll be more obvious over time.
hz, why do you think that Sponge is scum? Sponge should not be able to avoid pressure by saying that anyone who pressure's him is scum. If anyone wants to pressure Sponge then that does not make them look scummy to me. It's early in the day and Sponge is the best place to leave my vote. I did not like that Sponge refused to defend Onegu's case, because it stopped conversation about it from flowing. I could of defended Onegu's case reasonably well, but Sponge refused to do it himself.
Is reacting passively to pressure a scum-tell to you?
|
On July 17 2013 04:55 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Is reacting passively to pressure a scum-tell to you?
No. I do think that you over-reacted to his pressure though. As I said, I could of defended his case, so I am sure that you could have. You do not seem passive, you seem flustered.
Did you not mention reading between the lines? Go back and read from the start of page 77 up until this point (with a clear head).
|
Are you planning on waiting until Super and Gotard post until talking about the case?
|
On July 17 2013 05:04 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 04:55 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Is reacting passively to pressure a scum-tell to you? No. I do think that you over-reacted to his pressure though. As I said, I could of defended his case, so I am sure that you could have. You do not seem passive, you seem flustered. Did you not mention reading between the lines? Go back and read from the start of page 77 up until this point (with a clear head).
Ah. I think I see your point.
On July 17 2013 05:05 Chromatically wrote:
Are you planning on waiting until Super and Gotard post until talking about the case?
The case on me, or the case on them? I'll talk about the cases on them right now. Their posting is relatively independent of my thoughts on the case on me. I'll talk about the case on me once I see who's on it.
|
Super's most recent reads:
On July 15 2013 07:41 Superfluous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:53 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@Superfluous
Can you post a list of your Town and Scum reads like kirby did in case you die tonight? Town: Chroma Umasi Hurricane (mostly because I really like this post) I did have that post calling you out earlier but you havent done anything similar since. Stimaddict (bad play revealing role but w/e) Jrkirby, though now I would lynch him to save myself seeing as its definitely coming to that. Maf: Xzavier Koshi Insert Lurker here Hzflank (weakest tho) I'll point out again how hard koshi is going on me and in some ways trying to distract from jkirby/discredit chroma. If Either of them flip maf I'd be suspicious of the other, though the same could be said of me and chroma I suppose.
Gotard's most recent reads (albeit still ancient):
On July 14 2013 05:32 Gotard wrote:
I didn't want to bring any names to the table because "my biggest scum reads" were weak because it was an early stage of the game and I wanted to stop Chromatically from tunneling Stim (saying my thoughts straight made me explaining myself for whole day in the last game I played and I would be lynched if mafia didn't make silly mistakes and few other townies said that i'm bad and not mafia. The same think i did with stim).
"All he's done is confirm town reads. Mathematically, he thinks more people are town than is possible:"
My "biggest" reads:
1) hzflank - cold, calculated. Null read.
4) jrkirby - confuses me a little. But he has a similar view on StiMaDDict as i do.
5) Koshi - inexperienced or lurking hard.
6) Xzavier - one good post [...] Need to see some more activity from him to have a read
8) Nightcat99 - lurking newbie.
13) cloud-9 - US timezone and 0 posts.
and Rainbows seemed really confusing.
you have some possible people to choose from...
You need to understand that if someone is 99.9% town for me he still might be mafia but it's highly unlikely and don't say "Mathematically" if you can't prove something "Mathematically" (you didn't even try rotfl).
At the time of them posting these, I sort of felt similar to Super (and chalked up his hz scum read as OMGUS). I'm still trying to figure out why he behaved how he did with his vote on Day 1. Xzavier was his scum read (also could have been OMGUS), but he admits he thought Kirby was town (but that he'd vote for him to save his skin, something he never ended up not doing, either through inactivity or inscrutable play.)
Gotard's reads are as 'don't rock the boat' as it gets, but when pressured to give actual scum reads, he posted that. Still not exactly shoveling dirt on anyone, but I guess we can interpret it as him disclosing that his criteria for 'scummy' is based on two things:
1.) Lurking
2.) Being confusing to him
I posted his only scumhunting a page or two back. It was a weak case claiming Super was going to be more useful than Kirby. (A POV I didn't understand, as I thought both looked scummy. Defending one to get votes on the other was a poor strategy in my opinion for the Day 1 Lynch)
|
EBWOP: something he ended up not going* (re: voting on kirby to save himself)
|
Gotard seemed to scum-hunt Koshi. This post is the only thing in his filter that I would say can be considered scum-hunting:
On July 16 2013 02:44 Gotard wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:14 Koshi wrote:
I would sheep. I have no targets that need to get lynched now. As promised Koshi's case: Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 08:19 Koshi wrote:
@Hurricane Sponge
Koshi: I am still learning on how to play the game properly. I am extremely bad at scumhunting. I get very easily annoyed by people saying that I am scum (I am working on this). I love fluff posts. I hate illogical posts but it seems that illogical does not mean you are scum, however, I am not planning on ever making an illogical post and when I do please call me on it.
As you can see, I got a lot of bad qualities that make me look scum all the time. However, I always prove that I am town by trying and hopefully this game I can prove it by actually nailing some scumreads. Yeah he's bad so there is not much point to listen to him just ignore... Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 00:10 Koshi wrote:
Guys, we need to get our shit together if we want a lynch. Don't forget we need at least 7 people on 1 guy. Both look perfect targets, let's try to come to a consensus now so that the more inactive people can follow us if they pop in.
I would say that Sponge and Umasi try to work this out and they give us final target? It seems that Chroma made the kirby case and that hzflank made the super case.
Me, StiM and all others should FOLLOW lead. all others should FOLLOW. Interesting. why would he want others to just follow? It's easy to hide as a scum if people are just following few leaders. And then trying to correct himself but it's still FOCUS ON THEM. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 00:13 Koshi wrote:
When you follow lead you should also give own reasoning obviously. But at this point we just need to pick one of these 2 targets. Change in his activity level is really interesting as well. He started with "hello i'm bad" lurking type of player and became 2nd Umasi (no offence) and he of course explained it. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 09:55 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 09:49 Chromatically wrote:
Why am I "smarter than that"? Weren't you just calling me "full of shit" a short bit ago? I actually think you are pretty smart. I was just screaming and kicking in the lynch so that I could get a good read on you and other people. Imagine how boring that last lynch would have been without the two of us. But I am currently having serious scum vibes coming from you. I am pretty sure that I am partially the reason why Kirby died. I played my role as lunatic in the start and people stopped listening to me. I tried to be more serious at the end of the lynch with my "Why Kirby is a better save than Super" but it was too late. But anyway, the only reason why I stopped being the lunatic is because I am 100% certain that your defense of Super is unholy. I hope that people will see the same reasoning. Also, with the green flip of kirby I should NEVER be seen as scum. Or I am that retard that wants to go 2 versus 11 with a bit of townkred from the Day 1 scum lynch. Personally I didn't find that defense particularly scummy. So Koshi's reasons: + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 09:18 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 09:14 Umasi wrote:
And also, how good of a target is Super to you, Chrom? Chrom is becoming the target and not Super. I hope I have time to make a good case in the next 24hours. Because the defense of Chrom was UNHOLY. Even if Super flips town, the reasoning of Chrom was getting out of control. At this point I feel If super is scum than 100% Chrom is scum. If super is town, 50% Chrom is scum. Reasoning --> That defense, he must have known Super was town, because that defense made 0 sense. I am not talking about kirby here. I am talking 100% Chrom putting his neck out for a guy that was not better than kirby. On July 15 2013 11:22 Koshi wrote:Red lights in my head after this post. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 03:25 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 03:21 Koshi wrote:
Can we get a Super lynch going? Chromatically could you please consider this? Don't you think that Kirby is better for town if both Kirby and Super are at this point equally scum? Kirby posts much better than Super, if Kirby is scum I feel like it will be easier to catch him later on than Super.
I see that you guys (StiM, Croma) are thinking that I am scum. It's fine by me, we can discuss it later, I am not going to stop posting, I am during Europe times online A LOT, you can keep grilling me. This is blatantly untrue. Super actually posts scumreads with reasoning. Kirby does not. Chrom defending super. MAJOR RED LIGHTS going off in my head. You can see that I started being really active in this lynch right after this post below. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 05:31 Chromatically wrote:I have to rewrite this because my computer crashed, so I'm just going to c/p the parts that hz wrote (without the quotes from Super). Original case is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420227¤tpage=28#549The Super CaseShow nested quote +
Super introduces himself as a player who understands that people cannot always respond to posts quickly and as a player who thinks that applying pressure on other players is a good thing. His later posts do not exhibit these traits at all.
Before even starting to scum-hunt, Super is concerned with self-preservation. He is not even interested in getting good conversation flowing to produce information. Self-preservation comes first.
This isn't scummy. I've already talked about this at length, but everyone's first priority is to stay alive. If there was suspicion on me, my first priority is to remove it.Ask yourself: what would you do if you walked into the thread and there was a case on you? You'd defend yourself. Show nested quote +
One of the first things that Super says comes to his mind is that Cloud has not posted yet. Why is this the next thing that Super thinks of, after self-preservation? He later gives a reason but I cannot understand how he arrived at that train of thought.
? His reason makes sense. He didn't have time to do anything more than skim, so he called out someone he thought was lurking. Not particularly townie, but not at all scummy. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he has not yet scum-hunted, but so far I was his biggest scum read. That would be fine if his reads were fluid after he actually did some scum-hunting. As we will see later though, his read on me persists until I really hammer home the point that there is no good town motivation for his read on me.
This isn't scummy. Bad reads =/= scum, bad townies make bad reads all of the time. You say there's no town motivation, but there's really no scum motivation. Scum know that they won't get a mislynch on you, so they have no reason to scumread you. Show nested quote +
Also, why is he so worried that posting this early read might push him to being lynched? I think that it is because he already knows that he cannot actually justify his read on me.
I didn't really understand what he was saying in that sentence. Show nested quote +
Next, Super calls me a lurker but says that the other Europeans should be excused for not posting much. I had already made several posts at this point and am a European myself.
This isn't scummy. This is bad reasoning. Bad reasoning often comes from bad town. If anything, this is overzealous scumhunting. Show nested quote +
He says that he wants to see more from me, but does not give any indication of what he wants to see. When I later make posts directed towards him he completely ignores then as though they are invisible. If he had a scum read on me and wanted to see more, why does he not reply to my posts?
This, once again, isn't scummy. If I say that I want a scumread to post more, that does NOT mean that I'm planning on replying to them. All it means is that I want them to post their reads and reasoning more often. I'm probably NOT going to reply to them, most of the time, unless I have something in particular to say. I cannot understand why you think this is bad. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he still thinks I am scum. His reasons are that I have not posted anything which contributed to finding scum. I may be biased on this point, but I do not see how a town Super could say that I had not been contributing. Note that I stopped playing at around 2 AM my time last night, but Super seems to think that it was scummy of me to stop posting. Why would a town player think that?
Once again, bad logic =/= scum. Show nested quote +
Now, Super is still more concerned with self-preservation that with finding scum. He also gently suggests that we should consider a no lynch. If a town player was under pressure at this point they would push a scum-read as hard as they could, but they would not try for a no lynch. Super switches his primary scum read from me to Xzavier, without ever saying why I suddenly became less scummy or Xzavier became more scummy (as Xzavier has not posted in a long time). This is still self-preservation without pushing a scum target with any significant force.
Why would a scum player say that they were just giving reads in self defense? I'll admit that this is a decent point though. So almost all of hz's case is stuff that isn't scummy. When I look at Super's filter, I see someone who's at least trying to find scum and share their reads freely. This is way more than you can say for Kirby. So I am pushing Chrom now. I find his defense unholy and I want to see how far he wants to bring this defense. So I make a timeline that is not favoring superflous. But hey, this is why everybody has the superflous scumvibe. Look how Chrom counters this timeline. Chrom says I leave out all the reads Super makes on Xzavier and Hz + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 06:41 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:32 Koshi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 06:07 Koshi wrote:
Superflous timeline
Why the fuck Xzavier? Super his first and second post are about not lynching on the first day and now he starts a vote train. I think because he thinks days take 24hours?
Conclusion: This isn't town play. this is surviving. Surviving because he is blue or scum? I say scum because of that last vote. Comments on this Chrom? Isn't this exactly what Super did? Read his filter after reading this. I think it's misrepresenting Super's play to make it sound worse than it is. Show nested quote +Entrance with post that no lynch is an option. 1h20m laterApologizing for being gone, defending his previous post in 8 lines. Mentions he has no reads, but cloud didn't post anythinh 2h20m laterapalogising for saying cloud was afk. (in 4 lines) Biggest scumread is HZ, because Umasi is town and HZ commented on Umasi. the read was because he thought hz was using bad logic AND because he posted fluff in the early gameMentions NightCat to be town, Xzavier is scum because Xzavier says Super is scum (Remember Umasi was allowed to do so) he didn't call nightcat town, he didn't like xzavier for lurking and then jumping on him11hours later3rd time sucking up to Umasi. mentions Koshi and Gotard are town. apparently explaining a townread == sucking up now4h 30min laterSuper is alarmed that H.Sponge is disagreeing with him. But maybe Sponge is scummy? Super not making a case but he mentions some things. Eventually a couple times apologizing as well. this is bringing suspicions to the thread and is townie1h later Super goes to a concert and votes Xzavier. his top scum readyou also leave out all of the posts where he is explaining his reads on hz and Xzav Now I admit that I don't really know why I was being the caps lock lunatic. But I looked up all the superflous posts that contained "reads" on Xzavier. I suggest you do the same. There are 3(?) total and 2 are quoted in this post. Look at the 5 reasons Chroms shakes out of his head. Read Xzav his log and he didn't do much but he made 1 big post, the post where he putted Superflous on top of his scumlist, but he talked about 3-4 people iirc. This post contained more than Super did, and on a moment Sponge knew this as well. I don't see why he forgot it during the lynch. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him 2) Xzav read him as scum 3) Xzav hasn't contributed 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him 5) Gut read I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I want everybody to read super his log and READ what he says about xzavier. Then tell me why Chrom thinks Super is so special? Anyway, Chrom seems to be unaware that I am targetting him at this point. At this point I start to think that Super must be scum on top of the fact that Chrom is defending him without a good case, Chrom doesn't want to play this game with only 2 scums. Come on. How can Chrom blatantly ignore Kirby his case on Godart but find 5(!) reasons in the 2 quoted posts from superflous. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 07:19 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:06 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him JEEZ THIS IS SCUMMY2) Xzav read him as scum SO DID UMASI3) Xzav hasn't contributed YES HE DID? READ THE ENTIRE XZAV POST WHERE HE ALSO MENTIONS SUPER 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him SHEEPED WHO? UMASI? 5) Gut read CRAZYYYYYYYYY I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I capslocked my response. I quoted all 3 posts of Super about Xzavier You were able to find 5 points? I am having a feeling that you are all-in on this Kirby vs Super lynch? Chrom, you are going to look very bad when Super turns red. You realise that? Why are you suddenly defending Xzavier? We're discussing Super, not Xzavier. It doesn't even matter if his points are good (even though 3 and 4 are), it just matters that they exist and come from a town POV. Super has 7 posts about Xzav. Here are the two: Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:29 Superfluous wrote:Going back through the posts, I'm a little alarmed at Hurricane Sponge's change of tone. In this post he disagrees with my opinion and says it casts suspicion on me, but doesnt state that I'm a huge scumread or anything. Here I interpreted his post as acknowledging that while we disagree, I was still trying to state my opinion and reasons for having that view. He then says some weird things here though. For instance, he says that he agrees with others' view of me who had semi-defended me, and in the same list puts me as the only scum read. I realize his view may have changed, but it strikes me especially considering in the second post I listed he acknowledged the possibility of a bandwagon on me just because of differing opinions. We also have a mutual disagreement on reads as well. I don't see how hzflank and xzavier have contributed substantially more than me. While knowing everyone's scum reads is good, I don't like it when people show up, say their scum reads, then expect other people to act on them. As for Stim I think he's more likely bad town then mafia. Then again everyone else is saying the same thing, so could be mafia excuse for not lynching him. Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 15 2013 21:42 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 21:28 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 21:14 Koshi wrote:EDITED VERSION OF THE POST ABOVE THISOn July 15 2013 20:09 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 16:27 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 09:16 Chromatically wrote:
ahhhhhhhhhh
The case on Kirby was better than the one on Super, Kirby only looked town for the last ~10 minutes. I'll stand by that.
One of Super or Koshi is scum. Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip to me. I'll also look at Nightcat because he didn't care about who was lynched at all. @OneguCan you please comment on this post by Chroma? I don't want you to comment solely on Chroma, but give your own opinion on the different parts of it. 1)One of Super or Koshi is scum a) Multiple times Chroma said Super wasn't scum, kirby flip shouldn't affect this. Your opinion? b) Why is it Super or Koshi? What is the connection between us? 2) Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip. a) Do you agree that superfluou would have been a better lynch over kirby? Why? I think that kirby could have been more useful and easier to read Day 2. 1. I dont understand this, its like saying kirby or chrome is scum. It doesnt make sense find reasons for them being scum and then use votes as iceing on the cake.2. I will be biased here because I know the flip already so it is hard for me to answer this. I dont think super is scum. You guys hardly ever went off bandwagon. You let hurricane control this, not saying it is 100% your fault as anyone could have spoken up. I feel it is easier for scum to hide in majority lynch as there wont be 3 bandwagons so when all the votes will be on only 2 people scum has good reasons for being on a bandwagon as it is harder to analyse flips because no one will be off a bandwaggon. You got to know that Chroma was defending Super the whole time, I can quote Chroma a couple times where he says Super is NOT scum. Him suddenly typing that either Super or I might be scum because Jirby flipped town is suspicious because it is illogical as hell to go change on Super. You must know that Chroma had been defending Super 6 hours, he read all Super his logs, he thought all super his actions through, and then when kirby flips town Super is suspicious? That doesn't make sense, you don't think like that. Unless you already know that Super is scum and you are creating a distance? Why did Chroma add that it is Super or Koshi?
There is no correlation between me and Super. You can not make this assumption. Why is Chroma saying this? Maybe trying to keep the option "Koshi" open and try to save Super after all?There are more posts like this. Where Chroma made suspicious posts that no townie would do. Like seeing that Superfluous made a case against Xzavier. No Townie here saw that. Nobody saw that case like Chroma saw it. I am not willing to also point that out again. But if you want... The difference between my bad play (tunneling super) and Chroma his bad play(tunneling on kirby) is that Chroma did silly things that no Townie would do. You disagree? I dont know why he did this, and he needs to answer. What I am saying is it is the same thing as saying kirby or chrome is scum, neither statement has any foundation. I will go over chromes filter, but while reading the thread I remember agreeing with alot of his points early in the game and most scum arent leading one of the day 1 bandwagons, which made me slightly town on him. I want to say something real fast also, defending someone even if they flip scum is a scumtell, at least that is what happahuli told me in scum QT NMMXLII. Chrom said a lot of things that you could agree with, he made me look silly sometimes. But that doesn't mean he isn't scum. You have to look at some of the assumptions he made, the ignoring of the defense Kirby made, the ignoring of the case vs Godart that Kirby made. There is a post where Chroma defends Super by saying that survival is a townplay, and that is a town thing to do when somebody makes a case against you that you defend yourself. It was a really good post by Chroma. But why did Chroma ignore the BIG DEFENSE Kirby made on Chroma his post about Kirby. Chroma gave it not enough attention at all, and it was a really good defense. This is suspicious. There are really multiple things like this. Chroma makes good posts but ignores obvious things that someone like Chroma doesn't do on purpose. Seems weird to me that he takes aggressive stance like that after saying "others should FOLLOW lead" he's ignoring his own advice. But is it scummy or not? Problem is that his advice was scummy so playing against it was pro town but at the same time i don't see how his "all caps madness" was beneficial for town. So I see that like his trying to sheep Chromatically after bad lynch day one. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:46 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:43 Chromatically wrote:
I would consolidate if it is literally the only way to avoid a no lynch. THIS IS BULLSHIT TOWN WE ARE GOING TO GET SO MUCH INFO WHEN WE LYNCH THERE ARE ONLY 3 FUCKING SCUMS. A MISSLYNCH IS NOT BAD. ARE YOU PEOPLE KIDDING ME? WE ALL AGREED THAT LYNCHING WAS GOOD. AND NOW CHROM WANTS TO PROTECT SUPER SO MADLY THAT A NO LYNHC IS OK? WE AGREE THAT THEY BOTH LOOK SCUM. FUCK THIS Getting mad after misreading. Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me. Unless he wants to fake being mad after I defended Stim. And the most important note : he can't spell my name.
|
Building on that, Gotard ended up voting for someone who indeed confused him (kirby), but inarguably was the more active player. So his vote is inconsistent with his read criteria as far as I can tell. Gotard does apparently support Superfluous very early though (in the form of a list post):
On July 13 2013 19:53 Gotard wrote:Hello! After some lurking (jk I was sleeping) i'd like to share my thoughts: 1) hzflank - cold, calculated. Null read. 2) StiMaDDict - bad town. It would be too easy if he's mafia. 3) Chromatically - I think he's pushing stim too hard (he's agressive in general) but at the same time it's good for town to see some bandwagons going 4) jrkirby - confuses me a little.But he has a similar view on StiMaDDict as i do. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 13:38 jrkirby wrote:
I don't think he's town. I think he's stupid, and have a nullread. 5) Koshi - inexperienced or lurking hard. 6) Xzavier - one good post Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 04:58 Xzavier wrote:
its fine, all i have to do is show supporting evidence and never try to make my own case on gotard. No wait, that one was good. Need to see some more activity from him to have a read. I don't agree that lynching lurker is better than no lynch (9v3 > 8v3) 7) Rainbows - A lot of posts with minimum impact seems more townie than mafia. Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 10:42 Rainbows wrote:
I play exactly the same as scum and town imo.
wtf? 8) Nightcat99 - lurking newbie. 9) Umasi - Very aggressive same as last game I played with him (He was town). 11) Hurricane Sponge - biggest town read. Really liked this post. 12) Superfluous - Town vibe.13) cloud-9 - US timezone and 0 posts.
Bold emphasis mine
So at least his vote isn't completely inconsistent with the reads he had early. If he really got a town vibe off Superfluous, his defense is consistent.
|
On July 17 2013 05:30 hzflank wrote:Gotard seemed to scum-hunt Koshi. This post is the only thing in his filter that I would say can be considered scum-hunting: Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 02:44 Gotard wrote:On July 14 2013 04:14 Koshi wrote:
I would sheep. I have no targets that need to get lynched now. As promised Koshi's case: On July 13 2013 08:19 Koshi wrote:
@Hurricane Sponge
Koshi: I am still learning on how to play the game properly. I am extremely bad at scumhunting. I get very easily annoyed by people saying that I am scum (I am working on this). I love fluff posts. I hate illogical posts but it seems that illogical does not mean you are scum, however, I am not planning on ever making an illogical post and when I do please call me on it.
As you can see, I got a lot of bad qualities that make me look scum all the time. However, I always prove that I am town by trying and hopefully this game I can prove it by actually nailing some scumreads. Yeah he's bad so there is not much point to listen to him just ignore... On July 15 2013 00:10 Koshi wrote:
Guys, we need to get our shit together if we want a lynch. Don't forget we need at least 7 people on 1 guy. Both look perfect targets, let's try to come to a consensus now so that the more inactive people can follow us if they pop in.
I would say that Sponge and Umasi try to work this out and they give us final target? It seems that Chroma made the kirby case and that hzflank made the super case.
Me, StiM and all others should FOLLOW lead. all others should FOLLOW. Interesting. why would he want others to just follow? It's easy to hide as a scum if people are just following few leaders. And then trying to correct himself but it's still FOCUS ON THEM. On July 15 2013 00:13 Koshi wrote:
When you follow lead you should also give own reasoning obviously. But at this point we just need to pick one of these 2 targets. Change in his activity level is really interesting as well. He started with "hello i'm bad" lurking type of player and became 2nd Umasi (no offence) and he of course explained it. On July 15 2013 09:55 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 09:49 Chromatically wrote:
Why am I "smarter than that"? Weren't you just calling me "full of shit" a short bit ago? I actually think you are pretty smart. I was just screaming and kicking in the lynch so that I could get a good read on you and other people. Imagine how boring that last lynch would have been without the two of us. But I am currently having serious scum vibes coming from you. I am pretty sure that I am partially the reason why Kirby died. I played my role as lunatic in the start and people stopped listening to me. I tried to be more serious at the end of the lynch with my "Why Kirby is a better save than Super" but it was too late. But anyway, the only reason why I stopped being the lunatic is because I am 100% certain that your defense of Super is unholy. I hope that people will see the same reasoning. Also, with the green flip of kirby I should NEVER be seen as scum. Or I am that retard that wants to go 2 versus 11 with a bit of townkred from the Day 1 scum lynch. Personally I didn't find that defense particularly scummy. So Koshi's reasons: + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 09:18 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 09:14 Umasi wrote:
And also, how good of a target is Super to you, Chrom? Chrom is becoming the target and not Super. I hope I have time to make a good case in the next 24hours. Because the defense of Chrom was UNHOLY. Even if Super flips town, the reasoning of Chrom was getting out of control. At this point I feel If super is scum than 100% Chrom is scum. If super is town, 50% Chrom is scum. Reasoning --> That defense, he must have known Super was town, because that defense made 0 sense. I am not talking about kirby here. I am talking 100% Chrom putting his neck out for a guy that was not better than kirby. On July 15 2013 11:22 Koshi wrote:Red lights in my head after this post. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 03:25 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 03:21 Koshi wrote:
Can we get a Super lynch going? Chromatically could you please consider this? Don't you think that Kirby is better for town if both Kirby and Super are at this point equally scum? Kirby posts much better than Super, if Kirby is scum I feel like it will be easier to catch him later on than Super.
I see that you guys (StiM, Croma) are thinking that I am scum. It's fine by me, we can discuss it later, I am not going to stop posting, I am during Europe times online A LOT, you can keep grilling me. This is blatantly untrue. Super actually posts scumreads with reasoning. Kirby does not. Chrom defending super. MAJOR RED LIGHTS going off in my head. You can see that I started being really active in this lynch right after this post below. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 05:31 Chromatically wrote:I have to rewrite this because my computer crashed, so I'm just going to c/p the parts that hz wrote (without the quotes from Super). Original case is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420227¤tpage=28#549The Super CaseShow nested quote +
Super introduces himself as a player who understands that people cannot always respond to posts quickly and as a player who thinks that applying pressure on other players is a good thing. His later posts do not exhibit these traits at all.
Before even starting to scum-hunt, Super is concerned with self-preservation. He is not even interested in getting good conversation flowing to produce information. Self-preservation comes first.
This isn't scummy. I've already talked about this at length, but everyone's first priority is to stay alive. If there was suspicion on me, my first priority is to remove it.Ask yourself: what would you do if you walked into the thread and there was a case on you? You'd defend yourself. Show nested quote +
One of the first things that Super says comes to his mind is that Cloud has not posted yet. Why is this the next thing that Super thinks of, after self-preservation? He later gives a reason but I cannot understand how he arrived at that train of thought.
? His reason makes sense. He didn't have time to do anything more than skim, so he called out someone he thought was lurking. Not particularly townie, but not at all scummy. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he has not yet scum-hunted, but so far I was his biggest scum read. That would be fine if his reads were fluid after he actually did some scum-hunting. As we will see later though, his read on me persists until I really hammer home the point that there is no good town motivation for his read on me.
This isn't scummy. Bad reads =/= scum, bad townies make bad reads all of the time. You say there's no town motivation, but there's really no scum motivation. Scum know that they won't get a mislynch on you, so they have no reason to scumread you. Show nested quote +
Also, why is he so worried that posting this early read might push him to being lynched? I think that it is because he already knows that he cannot actually justify his read on me.
I didn't really understand what he was saying in that sentence. Show nested quote +
Next, Super calls me a lurker but says that the other Europeans should be excused for not posting much. I had already made several posts at this point and am a European myself.
This isn't scummy. This is bad reasoning. Bad reasoning often comes from bad town. If anything, this is overzealous scumhunting. Show nested quote +
He says that he wants to see more from me, but does not give any indication of what he wants to see. When I later make posts directed towards him he completely ignores then as though they are invisible. If he had a scum read on me and wanted to see more, why does he not reply to my posts?
This, once again, isn't scummy. If I say that I want a scumread to post more, that does NOT mean that I'm planning on replying to them. All it means is that I want them to post their reads and reasoning more often. I'm probably NOT going to reply to them, most of the time, unless I have something in particular to say. I cannot understand why you think this is bad. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he still thinks I am scum. His reasons are that I have not posted anything which contributed to finding scum. I may be biased on this point, but I do not see how a town Super could say that I had not been contributing. Note that I stopped playing at around 2 AM my time last night, but Super seems to think that it was scummy of me to stop posting. Why would a town player think that?
Once again, bad logic =/= scum. Show nested quote +
Now, Super is still more concerned with self-preservation that with finding scum. He also gently suggests that we should consider a no lynch. If a town player was under pressure at this point they would push a scum-read as hard as they could, but they would not try for a no lynch. Super switches his primary scum read from me to Xzavier, without ever saying why I suddenly became less scummy or Xzavier became more scummy (as Xzavier has not posted in a long time). This is still self-preservation without pushing a scum target with any significant force.
Why would a scum player say that they were just giving reads in self defense? I'll admit that this is a decent point though. So almost all of hz's case is stuff that isn't scummy. When I look at Super's filter, I see someone who's at least trying to find scum and share their reads freely. This is way more than you can say for Kirby. So I am pushing Chrom now. I find his defense unholy and I want to see how far he wants to bring this defense. So I make a timeline that is not favoring superflous. But hey, this is why everybody has the superflous scumvibe. Look how Chrom counters this timeline. Chrom says I leave out all the reads Super makes on Xzavier and Hz + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 06:41 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:32 Koshi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 06:07 Koshi wrote:
Superflous timeline
Why the fuck Xzavier? Super his first and second post are about not lynching on the first day and now he starts a vote train. I think because he thinks days take 24hours?
Conclusion: This isn't town play. this is surviving. Surviving because he is blue or scum? I say scum because of that last vote. Comments on this Chrom? Isn't this exactly what Super did? Read his filter after reading this. I think it's misrepresenting Super's play to make it sound worse than it is. Show nested quote +Entrance with post that no lynch is an option. 1h20m laterApologizing for being gone, defending his previous post in 8 lines. Mentions he has no reads, but cloud didn't post anythinh 2h20m laterapalogising for saying cloud was afk. (in 4 lines) Biggest scumread is HZ, because Umasi is town and HZ commented on Umasi. the read was because he thought hz was using bad logic AND because he posted fluff in the early gameMentions NightCat to be town, Xzavier is scum because Xzavier says Super is scum (Remember Umasi was allowed to do so) he didn't call nightcat town, he didn't like xzavier for lurking and then jumping on him11hours later3rd time sucking up to Umasi. mentions Koshi and Gotard are town. apparently explaining a townread == sucking up now4h 30min laterSuper is alarmed that H.Sponge is disagreeing with him. But maybe Sponge is scummy? Super not making a case but he mentions some things. Eventually a couple times apologizing as well. this is bringing suspicions to the thread and is townie1h later Super goes to a concert and votes Xzavier. his top scum readyou also leave out all of the posts where he is explaining his reads on hz and Xzav Now I admit that I don't really know why I was being the caps lock lunatic. But I looked up all the superflous posts that contained "reads" on Xzavier. I suggest you do the same. There are 3(?) total and 2 are quoted in this post. Look at the 5 reasons Chroms shakes out of his head. Read Xzav his log and he didn't do much but he made 1 big post, the post where he putted Superflous on top of his scumlist, but he talked about 3-4 people iirc. This post contained more than Super did, and on a moment Sponge knew this as well. I don't see why he forgot it during the lynch. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him 2) Xzav read him as scum 3) Xzav hasn't contributed 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him 5) Gut read I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I want everybody to read super his log and READ what he says about xzavier. Then tell me why Chrom thinks Super is so special? Anyway, Chrom seems to be unaware that I am targetting him at this point. At this point I start to think that Super must be scum on top of the fact that Chrom is defending him without a good case, Chrom doesn't want to play this game with only 2 scums. Come on. How can Chrom blatantly ignore Kirby his case on Godart but find 5(!) reasons in the 2 quoted posts from superflous. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 07:19 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:06 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him JEEZ THIS IS SCUMMY2) Xzav read him as scum SO DID UMASI3) Xzav hasn't contributed YES HE DID? READ THE ENTIRE XZAV POST WHERE HE ALSO MENTIONS SUPER 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him SHEEPED WHO? UMASI? 5) Gut read CRAZYYYYYYYYY I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I capslocked my response. I quoted all 3 posts of Super about Xzavier You were able to find 5 points? I am having a feeling that you are all-in on this Kirby vs Super lynch? Chrom, you are going to look very bad when Super turns red. You realise that? Why are you suddenly defending Xzavier? We're discussing Super, not Xzavier. It doesn't even matter if his points are good (even though 3 and 4 are), it just matters that they exist and come from a town POV. Super has 7 posts about Xzav. Here are the two: Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:29 Superfluous wrote:Going back through the posts, I'm a little alarmed at Hurricane Sponge's change of tone. In this post he disagrees with my opinion and says it casts suspicion on me, but doesnt state that I'm a huge scumread or anything. Here I interpreted his post as acknowledging that while we disagree, I was still trying to state my opinion and reasons for having that view. He then says some weird things here though. For instance, he says that he agrees with others' view of me who had semi-defended me, and in the same list puts me as the only scum read. I realize his view may have changed, but it strikes me especially considering in the second post I listed he acknowledged the possibility of a bandwagon on me just because of differing opinions. We also have a mutual disagreement on reads as well. I don't see how hzflank and xzavier have contributed substantially more than me. While knowing everyone's scum reads is good, I don't like it when people show up, say their scum reads, then expect other people to act on them. As for Stim I think he's more likely bad town then mafia. Then again everyone else is saying the same thing, so could be mafia excuse for not lynching him. Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 15 2013 21:42 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 21:28 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 21:14 Koshi wrote:EDITED VERSION OF THE POST ABOVE THISOn July 15 2013 20:09 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 16:27 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 09:16 Chromatically wrote:
ahhhhhhhhhh
The case on Kirby was better than the one on Super, Kirby only looked town for the last ~10 minutes. I'll stand by that.
One of Super or Koshi is scum. Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip to me. I'll also look at Nightcat because he didn't care about who was lynched at all. @OneguCan you please comment on this post by Chroma? I don't want you to comment solely on Chroma, but give your own opinion on the different parts of it. 1)One of Super or Koshi is scum a) Multiple times Chroma said Super wasn't scum, kirby flip shouldn't affect this. Your opinion? b) Why is it Super or Koshi? What is the connection between us? 2) Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip. a) Do you agree that superfluou would have been a better lynch over kirby? Why? I think that kirby could have been more useful and easier to read Day 2. 1. I dont understand this, its like saying kirby or chrome is scum. It doesnt make sense find reasons for them being scum and then use votes as iceing on the cake.2. I will be biased here because I know the flip already so it is hard for me to answer this. I dont think super is scum. You guys hardly ever went off bandwagon. You let hurricane control this, not saying it is 100% your fault as anyone could have spoken up. I feel it is easier for scum to hide in majority lynch as there wont be 3 bandwagons so when all the votes will be on only 2 people scum has good reasons for being on a bandwagon as it is harder to analyse flips because no one will be off a bandwaggon. You got to know that Chroma was defending Super the whole time, I can quote Chroma a couple times where he says Super is NOT scum. Him suddenly typing that either Super or I might be scum because Jirby flipped town is suspicious because it is illogical as hell to go change on Super. You must know that Chroma had been defending Super 6 hours, he read all Super his logs, he thought all super his actions through, and then when kirby flips town Super is suspicious? That doesn't make sense, you don't think like that. Unless you already know that Super is scum and you are creating a distance? Why did Chroma add that it is Super or Koshi?
There is no correlation between me and Super. You can not make this assumption. Why is Chroma saying this? Maybe trying to keep the option "Koshi" open and try to save Super after all?There are more posts like this. Where Chroma made suspicious posts that no townie would do. Like seeing that Superfluous made a case against Xzavier. No Townie here saw that. Nobody saw that case like Chroma saw it. I am not willing to also point that out again. But if you want... The difference between my bad play (tunneling super) and Chroma his bad play(tunneling on kirby) is that Chroma did silly things that no Townie would do. You disagree? I dont know why he did this, and he needs to answer. What I am saying is it is the same thing as saying kirby or chrome is scum, neither statement has any foundation. I will go over chromes filter, but while reading the thread I remember agreeing with alot of his points early in the game and most scum arent leading one of the day 1 bandwagons, which made me slightly town on him. I want to say something real fast also, defending someone even if they flip scum is a scumtell, at least that is what happahuli told me in scum QT NMMXLII. Chrom said a lot of things that you could agree with, he made me look silly sometimes. But that doesn't mean he isn't scum. You have to look at some of the assumptions he made, the ignoring of the defense Kirby made, the ignoring of the case vs Godart that Kirby made. There is a post where Chroma defends Super by saying that survival is a townplay, and that is a town thing to do when somebody makes a case against you that you defend yourself. It was a really good post by Chroma. But why did Chroma ignore the BIG DEFENSE Kirby made on Chroma his post about Kirby. Chroma gave it not enough attention at all, and it was a really good defense. This is suspicious. There are really multiple things like this. Chroma makes good posts but ignores obvious things that someone like Chroma doesn't do on purpose. Seems weird to me that he takes aggressive stance like that after saying "others should FOLLOW lead" he's ignoring his own advice. But is it scummy or not? Problem is that his advice was scummy so playing against it was pro town but at the same time i don't see how his "all caps madness" was beneficial for town. So I see that like his trying to sheep Chromatically after bad lynch day one. On July 15 2013 07:46 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:43 Chromatically wrote:
I would consolidate if it is literally the only way to avoid a no lynch. THIS IS BULLSHIT TOWN WE ARE GOING TO GET SO MUCH INFO WHEN WE LYNCH THERE ARE ONLY 3 FUCKING SCUMS. A MISSLYNCH IS NOT BAD. ARE YOU PEOPLE KIDDING ME? WE ALL AGREED THAT LYNCHING WAS GOOD. AND NOW CHROM WANTS TO PROTECT SUPER SO MADLY THAT A NO LYNHC IS OK? WE AGREE THAT THEY BOTH LOOK SCUM. FUCK THIS Getting mad after misreading. Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me. Unless he wants to fake being mad after I defended Stim. And the most important note : he can't spell my name.
That's what I thought at first too. But look closer. Third to last sentence: "Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me." At the end of the post, he apparently thinks Koshi is just 'bad town'. Turns out not to be a scumhunt after all?
|
Although I do disagree with his logic. Emotional play in one-time reactionary posts (check time stamps, kids) are a null read for me. Only over prolonged debates does emotional posting give us valuable pro-town or scum reads.
|
Jesus, and Gotard says that some people confuse him a little.
|
On July 17 2013 05:36 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 05:30 hzflank wrote:Gotard seemed to scum-hunt Koshi. This post is the only thing in his filter that I would say can be considered scum-hunting: On July 16 2013 02:44 Gotard wrote:On July 14 2013 04:14 Koshi wrote:
I would sheep. I have no targets that need to get lynched now. As promised Koshi's case: On July 13 2013 08:19 Koshi wrote:
@Hurricane Sponge
Koshi: I am still learning on how to play the game properly. I am extremely bad at scumhunting. I get very easily annoyed by people saying that I am scum (I am working on this). I love fluff posts. I hate illogical posts but it seems that illogical does not mean you are scum, however, I am not planning on ever making an illogical post and when I do please call me on it.
As you can see, I got a lot of bad qualities that make me look scum all the time. However, I always prove that I am town by trying and hopefully this game I can prove it by actually nailing some scumreads. Yeah he's bad so there is not much point to listen to him just ignore... On July 15 2013 00:10 Koshi wrote:
Guys, we need to get our shit together if we want a lynch. Don't forget we need at least 7 people on 1 guy. Both look perfect targets, let's try to come to a consensus now so that the more inactive people can follow us if they pop in.
I would say that Sponge and Umasi try to work this out and they give us final target? It seems that Chroma made the kirby case and that hzflank made the super case.
Me, StiM and all others should FOLLOW lead. all others should FOLLOW. Interesting. why would he want others to just follow? It's easy to hide as a scum if people are just following few leaders. And then trying to correct himself but it's still FOCUS ON THEM. On July 15 2013 00:13 Koshi wrote:
When you follow lead you should also give own reasoning obviously. But at this point we just need to pick one of these 2 targets. Change in his activity level is really interesting as well. He started with "hello i'm bad" lurking type of player and became 2nd Umasi (no offence) and he of course explained it. On July 15 2013 09:55 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 09:49 Chromatically wrote:
Why am I "smarter than that"? Weren't you just calling me "full of shit" a short bit ago? I actually think you are pretty smart. I was just screaming and kicking in the lynch so that I could get a good read on you and other people. Imagine how boring that last lynch would have been without the two of us. But I am currently having serious scum vibes coming from you. I am pretty sure that I am partially the reason why Kirby died. I played my role as lunatic in the start and people stopped listening to me. I tried to be more serious at the end of the lynch with my "Why Kirby is a better save than Super" but it was too late. But anyway, the only reason why I stopped being the lunatic is because I am 100% certain that your defense of Super is unholy. I hope that people will see the same reasoning. Also, with the green flip of kirby I should NEVER be seen as scum. Or I am that retard that wants to go 2 versus 11 with a bit of townkred from the Day 1 scum lynch. Personally I didn't find that defense particularly scummy. So Koshi's reasons: + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 09:18 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 09:14 Umasi wrote:
And also, how good of a target is Super to you, Chrom? Chrom is becoming the target and not Super. I hope I have time to make a good case in the next 24hours. Because the defense of Chrom was UNHOLY. Even if Super flips town, the reasoning of Chrom was getting out of control. At this point I feel If super is scum than 100% Chrom is scum. If super is town, 50% Chrom is scum. Reasoning --> That defense, he must have known Super was town, because that defense made 0 sense. I am not talking about kirby here. I am talking 100% Chrom putting his neck out for a guy that was not better than kirby. On July 15 2013 11:22 Koshi wrote:Red lights in my head after this post. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 03:25 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 03:21 Koshi wrote:
Can we get a Super lynch going? Chromatically could you please consider this? Don't you think that Kirby is better for town if both Kirby and Super are at this point equally scum? Kirby posts much better than Super, if Kirby is scum I feel like it will be easier to catch him later on than Super.
I see that you guys (StiM, Croma) are thinking that I am scum. It's fine by me, we can discuss it later, I am not going to stop posting, I am during Europe times online A LOT, you can keep grilling me. This is blatantly untrue. Super actually posts scumreads with reasoning. Kirby does not. Chrom defending super. MAJOR RED LIGHTS going off in my head. You can see that I started being really active in this lynch right after this post below. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 05:31 Chromatically wrote:I have to rewrite this because my computer crashed, so I'm just going to c/p the parts that hz wrote (without the quotes from Super). Original case is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420227¤tpage=28#549The Super CaseShow nested quote +
Super introduces himself as a player who understands that people cannot always respond to posts quickly and as a player who thinks that applying pressure on other players is a good thing. His later posts do not exhibit these traits at all.
Before even starting to scum-hunt, Super is concerned with self-preservation. He is not even interested in getting good conversation flowing to produce information. Self-preservation comes first.
This isn't scummy. I've already talked about this at length, but everyone's first priority is to stay alive. If there was suspicion on me, my first priority is to remove it.Ask yourself: what would you do if you walked into the thread and there was a case on you? You'd defend yourself. Show nested quote +
One of the first things that Super says comes to his mind is that Cloud has not posted yet. Why is this the next thing that Super thinks of, after self-preservation? He later gives a reason but I cannot understand how he arrived at that train of thought.
? His reason makes sense. He didn't have time to do anything more than skim, so he called out someone he thought was lurking. Not particularly townie, but not at all scummy. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he has not yet scum-hunted, but so far I was his biggest scum read. That would be fine if his reads were fluid after he actually did some scum-hunting. As we will see later though, his read on me persists until I really hammer home the point that there is no good town motivation for his read on me.
This isn't scummy. Bad reads =/= scum, bad townies make bad reads all of the time. You say there's no town motivation, but there's really no scum motivation. Scum know that they won't get a mislynch on you, so they have no reason to scumread you. Show nested quote +
Also, why is he so worried that posting this early read might push him to being lynched? I think that it is because he already knows that he cannot actually justify his read on me.
I didn't really understand what he was saying in that sentence. Show nested quote +
Next, Super calls me a lurker but says that the other Europeans should be excused for not posting much. I had already made several posts at this point and am a European myself.
This isn't scummy. This is bad reasoning. Bad reasoning often comes from bad town. If anything, this is overzealous scumhunting. Show nested quote +
He says that he wants to see more from me, but does not give any indication of what he wants to see. When I later make posts directed towards him he completely ignores then as though they are invisible. If he had a scum read on me and wanted to see more, why does he not reply to my posts?
This, once again, isn't scummy. If I say that I want a scumread to post more, that does NOT mean that I'm planning on replying to them. All it means is that I want them to post their reads and reasoning more often. I'm probably NOT going to reply to them, most of the time, unless I have something in particular to say. I cannot understand why you think this is bad. Show nested quote +
Next Super says that he still thinks I am scum. His reasons are that I have not posted anything which contributed to finding scum. I may be biased on this point, but I do not see how a town Super could say that I had not been contributing. Note that I stopped playing at around 2 AM my time last night, but Super seems to think that it was scummy of me to stop posting. Why would a town player think that?
Once again, bad logic =/= scum. Show nested quote +
Now, Super is still more concerned with self-preservation that with finding scum. He also gently suggests that we should consider a no lynch. If a town player was under pressure at this point they would push a scum-read as hard as they could, but they would not try for a no lynch. Super switches his primary scum read from me to Xzavier, without ever saying why I suddenly became less scummy or Xzavier became more scummy (as Xzavier has not posted in a long time). This is still self-preservation without pushing a scum target with any significant force.
Why would a scum player say that they were just giving reads in self defense? I'll admit that this is a decent point though. So almost all of hz's case is stuff that isn't scummy. When I look at Super's filter, I see someone who's at least trying to find scum and share their reads freely. This is way more than you can say for Kirby. So I am pushing Chrom now. I find his defense unholy and I want to see how far he wants to bring this defense. So I make a timeline that is not favoring superflous. But hey, this is why everybody has the superflous scumvibe. Look how Chrom counters this timeline. Chrom says I leave out all the reads Super makes on Xzavier and Hz + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 06:41 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:32 Koshi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 06:07 Koshi wrote:
Superflous timeline
Why the fuck Xzavier? Super his first and second post are about not lynching on the first day and now he starts a vote train. I think because he thinks days take 24hours?
Conclusion: This isn't town play. this is surviving. Surviving because he is blue or scum? I say scum because of that last vote. Comments on this Chrom? Isn't this exactly what Super did? Read his filter after reading this. I think it's misrepresenting Super's play to make it sound worse than it is. Show nested quote +Entrance with post that no lynch is an option. 1h20m laterApologizing for being gone, defending his previous post in 8 lines. Mentions he has no reads, but cloud didn't post anythinh 2h20m laterapalogising for saying cloud was afk. (in 4 lines) Biggest scumread is HZ, because Umasi is town and HZ commented on Umasi. the read was because he thought hz was using bad logic AND because he posted fluff in the early gameMentions NightCat to be town, Xzavier is scum because Xzavier says Super is scum (Remember Umasi was allowed to do so) he didn't call nightcat town, he didn't like xzavier for lurking and then jumping on him11hours later3rd time sucking up to Umasi. mentions Koshi and Gotard are town. apparently explaining a townread == sucking up now4h 30min laterSuper is alarmed that H.Sponge is disagreeing with him. But maybe Sponge is scummy? Super not making a case but he mentions some things. Eventually a couple times apologizing as well. this is bringing suspicions to the thread and is townie1h later Super goes to a concert and votes Xzavier. his top scum readyou also leave out all of the posts where he is explaining his reads on hz and Xzav Now I admit that I don't really know why I was being the caps lock lunatic. But I looked up all the superflous posts that contained "reads" on Xzavier. I suggest you do the same. There are 3(?) total and 2 are quoted in this post. Look at the 5 reasons Chroms shakes out of his head. Read Xzav his log and he didn't do much but he made 1 big post, the post where he putted Superflous on top of his scumlist, but he talked about 3-4 people iirc. This post contained more than Super did, and on a moment Sponge knew this as well. I don't see why he forgot it during the lynch. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him 2) Xzav read him as scum 3) Xzav hasn't contributed 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him 5) Gut read I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I want everybody to read super his log and READ what he says about xzavier. Then tell me why Chrom thinks Super is so special? Anyway, Chrom seems to be unaware that I am targetting him at this point. At this point I start to think that Super must be scum on top of the fact that Chrom is defending him without a good case, Chrom doesn't want to play this game with only 2 scums. Come on. How can Chrom blatantly ignore Kirby his case on Godart but find 5(!) reasons in the 2 quoted posts from superflous. + Show Spoiler +On July 15 2013 07:19 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 07:06 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:01 Chromatically wrote:On July 15 2013 06:53 Koshi wrote:On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 14 2013 04:51 Superfluous wrote:
I'm pointing out Sponge as a possibility as he has seemed to be clear from suspicion after jrkirby's early pressure. Xzavier is my biggest scum read atm for the reasons listed. I have a gut feeling and really have not liked the tone in his posts. Look at ALL THE REASONS SUPER GIVES. WOOOOWWWWOWWW You sure suddenly have very strong feelings about Super when he wasn't even a scumread not too long ago. There's no way you honestly believe that those are his only reasons. I control-F'd "Xzavier" in his filter and here's the reasons I found: 1) Xzav lurked before suddenly jumping on him JEEZ THIS IS SCUMMY2) Xzav read him as scum SO DID UMASI3) Xzav hasn't contributed YES HE DID? READ THE ENTIRE XZAV POST WHERE HE ALSO MENTIONS SUPER 4) Xzav lurked and then sheeped thread sentiment by voting for him SHEEPED WHO? UMASI? 5) Gut read CRAZYYYYYYYYY I personally agree with points 3 and 4, that's why I don't like Xzav. I find it hard to believe that you honestly missed all of these posts. I capslocked my response. I quoted all 3 posts of Super about Xzavier You were able to find 5 points? I am having a feeling that you are all-in on this Kirby vs Super lynch? Chrom, you are going to look very bad when Super turns red. You realise that? Why are you suddenly defending Xzavier? We're discussing Super, not Xzavier. It doesn't even matter if his points are good (even though 3 and 4 are), it just matters that they exist and come from a town POV. Super has 7 posts about Xzav. Here are the two: Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:29 Superfluous wrote:Going back through the posts, I'm a little alarmed at Hurricane Sponge's change of tone. In this post he disagrees with my opinion and says it casts suspicion on me, but doesnt state that I'm a huge scumread or anything. Here I interpreted his post as acknowledging that while we disagree, I was still trying to state my opinion and reasons for having that view. He then says some weird things here though. For instance, he says that he agrees with others' view of me who had semi-defended me, and in the same list puts me as the only scum read. I realize his view may have changed, but it strikes me especially considering in the second post I listed he acknowledged the possibility of a bandwagon on me just because of differing opinions. We also have a mutual disagreement on reads as well. I don't see how hzflank and xzavier have contributed substantially more than me. While knowing everyone's scum reads is good, I don't like it when people show up, say their scum reads, then expect other people to act on them. As for Stim I think he's more likely bad town then mafia. Then again everyone else is saying the same thing, so could be mafia excuse for not lynching him. Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 04:45 Superfluous wrote:
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my posts, but my reasons for Hzflank and xzavier were not only because of association. I am suspicious of Hzflank because he had posts which didn't contribute or add anything (he defended it by saying it's his style of getting discussion started) and because he posted early on then didn't post much afterwards. Xzavier didn't post at all, then showed up and basically agreed with what had been said. He also said I was his biggest scum read but wasn't ready yet to vote for me. It struck me the wrong WAY, and I interpreted it as he was waiting for a reason to lynch me, not that he wasn't going to at all. Again, my interpretation here, but I already listed these reasons in previous posts just want to make it clearer. On July 15 2013 21:42 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 21:28 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 21:14 Koshi wrote:EDITED VERSION OF THE POST ABOVE THISOn July 15 2013 20:09 Onegu wrote:On July 15 2013 16:27 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 09:16 Chromatically wrote:
ahhhhhhhhhh
The case on Kirby was better than the one on Super, Kirby only looked town for the last ~10 minutes. I'll stand by that.
One of Super or Koshi is scum. Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip to me. I'll also look at Nightcat because he didn't care about who was lynched at all. @OneguCan you please comment on this post by Chroma? I don't want you to comment solely on Chroma, but give your own opinion on the different parts of it. 1)One of Super or Koshi is scum a) Multiple times Chroma said Super wasn't scum, kirby flip shouldn't affect this. Your opinion? b) Why is it Super or Koshi? What is the connection between us? 2) Koshi's hard defense of Kirby with little reasoning looks like it could be scum trying to get town cred from a town flip. a) Do you agree that superfluou would have been a better lynch over kirby? Why? I think that kirby could have been more useful and easier to read Day 2. 1. I dont understand this, its like saying kirby or chrome is scum. It doesnt make sense find reasons for them being scum and then use votes as iceing on the cake.2. I will be biased here because I know the flip already so it is hard for me to answer this. I dont think super is scum. You guys hardly ever went off bandwagon. You let hurricane control this, not saying it is 100% your fault as anyone could have spoken up. I feel it is easier for scum to hide in majority lynch as there wont be 3 bandwagons so when all the votes will be on only 2 people scum has good reasons for being on a bandwagon as it is harder to analyse flips because no one will be off a bandwaggon. You got to know that Chroma was defending Super the whole time, I can quote Chroma a couple times where he says Super is NOT scum. Him suddenly typing that either Super or I might be scum because Jirby flipped town is suspicious because it is illogical as hell to go change on Super. You must know that Chroma had been defending Super 6 hours, he read all Super his logs, he thought all super his actions through, and then when kirby flips town Super is suspicious? That doesn't make sense, you don't think like that. Unless you already know that Super is scum and you are creating a distance? Why did Chroma add that it is Super or Koshi?
There is no correlation between me and Super. You can not make this assumption. Why is Chroma saying this? Maybe trying to keep the option "Koshi" open and try to save Super after all?There are more posts like this. Where Chroma made suspicious posts that no townie would do. Like seeing that Superfluous made a case against Xzavier. No Townie here saw that. Nobody saw that case like Chroma saw it. I am not willing to also point that out again. But if you want... The difference between my bad play (tunneling super) and Chroma his bad play(tunneling on kirby) is that Chroma did silly things that no Townie would do. You disagree? I dont know why he did this, and he needs to answer. What I am saying is it is the same thing as saying kirby or chrome is scum, neither statement has any foundation. I will go over chromes filter, but while reading the thread I remember agreeing with alot of his points early in the game and most scum arent leading one of the day 1 bandwagons, which made me slightly town on him. I want to say something real fast also, defending someone even if they flip scum is a scumtell, at least that is what happahuli told me in scum QT NMMXLII. Chrom said a lot of things that you could agree with, he made me look silly sometimes. But that doesn't mean he isn't scum. You have to look at some of the assumptions he made, the ignoring of the defense Kirby made, the ignoring of the case vs Godart that Kirby made. There is a post where Chroma defends Super by saying that survival is a townplay, and that is a town thing to do when somebody makes a case against you that you defend yourself. It was a really good post by Chroma. But why did Chroma ignore the BIG DEFENSE Kirby made on Chroma his post about Kirby. Chroma gave it not enough attention at all, and it was a really good defense. This is suspicious. There are really multiple things like this. Chroma makes good posts but ignores obvious things that someone like Chroma doesn't do on purpose. Seems weird to me that he takes aggressive stance like that after saying "others should FOLLOW lead" he's ignoring his own advice. But is it scummy or not? Problem is that his advice was scummy so playing against it was pro town but at the same time i don't see how his "all caps madness" was beneficial for town. So I see that like his trying to sheep Chromatically after bad lynch day one. On July 15 2013 07:46 Koshi wrote:On July 15 2013 07:43 Chromatically wrote:
I would consolidate if it is literally the only way to avoid a no lynch. THIS IS BULLSHIT TOWN WE ARE GOING TO GET SO MUCH INFO WHEN WE LYNCH THERE ARE ONLY 3 FUCKING SCUMS. A MISSLYNCH IS NOT BAD. ARE YOU PEOPLE KIDDING ME? WE ALL AGREED THAT LYNCHING WAS GOOD. AND NOW CHROM WANTS TO PROTECT SUPER SO MADLY THAT A NO LYNHC IS OK? WE AGREE THAT THEY BOTH LOOK SCUM. FUCK THIS Getting mad after misreading. Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me. Unless he wants to fake being mad after I defended Stim. And the most important note : he can't spell my name. That's what I thought at first too. But look closer. Third to last sentence: "Emotional plays like that indicates bad town to me." At the end of the post, he apparently thinks Koshi is just 'bad town'. Turns out not to be a scumhunt after all?
Exactly. Why make a case on someone you think is bad town? It's faking contribution at it's finest.
|
Full disclosure, if I had zero meta on Gotard, this lynch would be a no-brainer. But he let this happen to him in NMMXLII as a useless townie, too. That doesn't exonerate him, but it does tell us that sometimes bad play is just bad play.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
