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On June 22 2013 03:52 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:47 Hapahauli wrote:On June 22 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:On June 22 2013 03:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Yamato, I look forward to the explanation. Shaio's more recent posting moved him more back to null for me, and I really don't see what's similar about those two quotes you pointed out. 1) He makes a terrible opening post that he tries to brush off as meaningless 2) He goes on to divert attention to someone else ScumShiao Hah. The architecture is uncannily similar. And wouldn't you think that this kind of "architecture" is exactly the kind of tell that gives away scum?Note that his terrible initial posting came under fire both games, indicating that he generally has a hard time making opening posts as mafia. As a tried and true tactic for getting out of it, he explains away his posts and chooses to divert attention to someone else he can quickly come up with a case on. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If he's pulled this exact maneuver as scum before, why wouldn't he do it again?
No, I think it's precisely stuff like 'architecture' that's how meta is totally misapplied.
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On June 22 2013 03:55 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:54 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2013 03:52 yamato77 wrote:On June 22 2013 03:47 Hapahauli wrote:On June 22 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:On June 22 2013 03:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Yamato, I look forward to the explanation. Shaio's more recent posting moved him more back to null for me, and I really don't see what's similar about those two quotes you pointed out. 1) He makes a terrible opening post that he tries to brush off as meaningless 2) He goes on to divert attention to someone else ScumShiao Hah. The architecture is uncannily similar. And wouldn't you think that this kind of "architecture" is exactly the kind of tell that gives away scum?Note that his terrible initial posting came under fire both games, indicating that he generally has a hard time making opening posts as mafia. As a tried and true tactic for getting out of it, he explains away his posts and chooses to divert attention to someone else he can quickly come up with a case on. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If he's pulled this exact maneuver as scum before, why wouldn't he do it again? No, I think it's precisely stuff like 'architecture' that's how meta is totally misapplied. So you don't think that I'm at all accurate in my analysis of what has gone on in this game and that game?
The problem is, yamato, "diverting attention" also translates to "talking about something else and potentially scumhunting".
Say he's town for a moment, and made a dumb opening post. How should he proceed? Probably by looking for suspicious stuff and commenting on it, right?
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I have this kinda semi-vague memory from quite a while ago of spending fucking AGES making a meta-case on someone like Bluelightz or something. Like I looked at his entire filter from 12 different games. And I saw only ONE other instance where he introduced a case in a very specific way, out of the many cases he'd made, and in that case he was mafia. And he'd done it in the game I was in... I was like a ha! Look at this awesome specific tell I found! Problem was it was bullshit and he was town and it just happened he'd introduced the case that way in a town game this time.
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On June 22 2013 07:07 slOosh wrote:
Well this is an awkward timing to come back >.>
Someone ask me a really hard question, I need to gain some feel into the game.
You can have 2, can't make promises about their difficulty.
1) What do you make of coag's unrelenting campaign to get me lynched?
2) What do you make of Corazon deciding Oats is definitely scum ("it's clear to me") and then disappearing to pop up with a cajoling post for Ange, and not pushing that read on the rest of the thread?
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On June 22 2013 07:14 Coagulation wrote:
marv u think im scum ?
No idea, dear. Normally doing something like that is pretty scummy (see Dandel in my last game, Les Mafia), but you're coag so you may just be doing it for funsies. *shrug*
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On June 22 2013 07:16 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 07:12 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2013 07:07 slOosh wrote:
Well this is an awkward timing to come back >.>
Someone ask me a really hard question, I need to gain some feel into the game. You can have 2, can't make promises about their difficulty. 1) What do you make of coag's unrelenting campaign to get me lynched? 2) What do you make of Corazon deciding Oats is definitely scum ("it's clear to me") and then disappearing to pop up with a cajoling post for Ange, and not pushing that read on the rest of the thread? Yes, because repeating the same point to everyone else just because you're not reading is bad. The information is all there. I gave my opinion on Ange, don't get butthurt because I wasn't talking to you directly when I said it. Marv if you're going to start this shit again please read any game that I've ever played with you. You've been dead wrong about me so many times I'm surprised you're silly enough to throw yourself at the wall again.
This is extremely bad, so stop it. The fact that I've been wrong about you in the past does not mean I will always be wrong about you, nor does it mean I should never pursue you in games, and suggesting as much is just absurd.
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And I'll say the same thing as I said in those games, I'll vote for you if I want to vote for you.
For someone who harps on about town atmosphere, you are by far the most negative influence on town atmosphere in this game so far.
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Damn slOosh, I was hoping for something wordier. Try this one on then:
3) Do yamato and hapa's interactions today look natural, like two townies interacting? Or how do you view it?
Ange - I dunno. Choosing between lurky players at this stage. I would probably say Obvious:
On June 21 2013 14:37 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
OO.
I was asking why you thought DP and Hapa was town. Haven't finished my first post of coffee. How am I supposed to be better at figuring out DP as town or scum when his scum play is being lauded in the thread as TL Mafia's gift to scum teams? Hapa looks like he may be experimenting with something early game or he's just reaction fishing in which case he's gotten a reaction out of you. They're drawing attention to themselves, that's all I need to know right now a few hours into the game.I'll tell you exactly what I'm thinking about right now because it's win/win to share it, either mafia will continue to do these things or they will post more in the thread by which we can find the inconsistencies. Mafia has very little reason to actively engage in discussion right now, especially if people are all pointing fingers at each other in the event that everyone posting right now is town. They would probably be content to let town tear itself apart and may not even post. People who are not posting by the end of 24 hours (and I don't mean a handful of one-liners and jokes) climb to the top of my kill-with-fire list. If all of town is talking, this list shortens greatly, and corners the scum into this category. Consider early participation to be town points for day 1. This will also effectively take out the town-aligned anti-town elements in the same vein, if townies aren't sharing their thoughts then they are playing for scum and I'd lynch them just the same to make solving the game easier down the line. (link)Did you read my post in Smurf Mini?
Basically the whole of the bolded, he's stressing the importance of activity, and especially early activity, and yet we've had remarkably little from him. I would expect a town Obvious to be more involved than he has been so far, especially since he's talked about the importance of such involvement.
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On June 22 2013 07:37 Ange777 wrote:
@marv:
Wouldn't a scum Obvious be more conscious about promoting activity and failing it himself as a scum player?
This would be logical yes, but I don't rely on mafia to carry through on their promises. Also, as far as I remember no-one else has pulled him up on this until I have so far - maybe he hopes it just looks nice at the time, at a time when he *is* actually making a couple of posts.
In Smurf Obvious posted nicely as mafia but as little as possible, whereas when Obvious is town he actively tries to solve the game.
I think I've talked myself into voting him, he's my best lead for now ^^
##Vote: Obvious
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On June 22 2013 07:39 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 07:30 marvellosity wrote:
Damn slOosh, I was hoping for something wordier. Try this one on then:
3) Do yamato and hapa's interactions today look natural, like two townies interacting? Or how do you view it?
I'll try to answer it, but could you first clarify either a string of posts / pages for me to refer to, or perhaps the dialogue that you found strange / scummy / (? I'm not sure). I don't really look at interactions unless we get some flips that point me that way.
Bottom of page 24 through page 26. And don't tell me what you usually do when you specifically asked for tricky questions to get your mind in the game, dearest :p
I wasn't making a judgement on their exchange, was just looking to see how you felt about it and why.
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On June 22 2013 07:38 cDgCorazon wrote:
As for Marv, I'd say he's scum but stupidity isn't a scum trait. If I ever roll day vig in a future game I will shoot Marv at the beginning of the game. I don't think I've ever played a game with him where he contributes to a good town atmosphere.
Again, you are the most negative influence on town atmosphere in this game, you've constantly snarked at people with your totally unfounded arrogance.
Further you played with me in Duel where I was shot N0 because I led town to an extraordinarily productive first 24 hours.
Take your disgusting rhetoric elsewhere.
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On June 22 2013 07:50 Ange777 wrote:
@marv: I just feel like I would be more careful about making any promises as scum because people will remember them and hold me to account for them and the least I would want is stand out badly. Right now I'd put Obvious in the same categorie as the other lurkers.
@Sloosh:
What part of Obvious' entry made you suspicious?
It's one way you catch scum. For example, Liar Game last year. A game full of TL's finest players, won handily by EchelonTee as mafia. In the post-game, it was pointed out that EchelonTee promised to come down on sandroba if he lurked; sandroba proceeded to lurk, but Echelon never came down on him. People either didn't notice this or didn't pick up on its importance.
I think the point I'm trying to make is that it wasn't a *promise*, it was a statement of what a good townie looks like, importantly made at a time when he was actually making a few posts. He's posting, it looks good, sounds nice. There's not necessarily forethought at that point in time.
And we both know how deliberate a player you are anyway, darling.
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On June 22 2013 07:52 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 07:42 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2013 07:39 slOosh wrote:On June 22 2013 07:30 marvellosity wrote:
Damn slOosh, I was hoping for something wordier. Try this one on then:
3) Do yamato and hapa's interactions today look natural, like two townies interacting? Or how do you view it?
I'll try to answer it, but could you first clarify either a string of posts / pages for me to refer to, or perhaps the dialogue that you found strange / scummy / (? I'm not sure). I don't really look at interactions unless we get some flips that point me that way. Bottom of page 24 through page 26. And don't tell me what you usually do when you specifically asked for tricky questions to get your mind in the game, dearest :p I wasn't making a judgement on their exchange, was just looking to see how you felt about it and why. Apologies ^.^ What I took out of it was that yamato backed off, so he must have some degree of town read + respect for you (marv) and Hapa. He (yamato) said he will put him (ShiaoPi) on his watch list, which is great because it means more stuff from ShiaoPi and yamato held to higher degree of contribution. Nothing worrisome yet for me.
Alright. Wasn't worrisome for me either, so that's good.
I like this ObviousOne direction. Let's hammer out some more discussion / focus on him. Here's what caught my eye Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:13 ObviousOne wrote:On June 21 2013 13:49 Hapahauli wrote:
In all seriousness, I do want to policy lynch Oats. Every game I've played with him, he's contributed to a toxic town atmosphere by tunneling obv-townies beyond the point of reason. I'm all for killing him until I find an actual scum-read. I'm getting town vibes from Oats. What you said is mostly correct, however. He is a good policy lynch if it comes down to one. He mucks up the thread with his random interjections. His tunnels can be beyond paranoid. I don't see a reason to think he's mafia. Coag, what do you think about Oats and my thoughts regarding him? Are you going to hit-and-run style post all game? He asks Coag (of all people), about his thoughts on Oats (a town read). If he wanted thoughts on Oats, there were people already talking about it. If he wanted thoughts from Coag, I think there could have been better questions. Do you think this is strange / different / scummy?
It's a tricky one. See instinctively I'd say that trying to engage coag on about anything isn't a terrible idea, and it actually got a response out of coag. It seems early enough on the game that there wasn't that much going on by then to ask him about. I don't think I read that much into that one.
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On June 22 2013 07:59 Ange777 wrote:Fair enough, I'll keep that in mind. I don't know how I am supposed to take your last sentence though ... As a compliment or as a warning?  It's late, I am off to bed now.
Haha. Neither in particular, was more pointing out that you have a way of thinking about things that would lead you to think that others are similarly careful and deliberate as you (with regards to Obvious posting about activity).
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On June 22 2013 13:56 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 07:49 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Cora
You need to take a deep breath, step outside, and come back in an hour or so.
This isn't a game about a grudge with Marv - it's a game about finding mafia. Antagonizing people isn't going to get us anywhere. The problem is that Marv tunnels me in every single game we play together. How is that helpful ever?
I didn't tunnel you in Duel, nor did I tunnel you in this game, I asked one other player about one thing you did this game. Grow up.
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On June 22 2013 18:01 Hapahauli wrote:
Both him and Rayn actually. Rayn's play just feels off. He's literally suspicious of every person in this game. And not in a "paranoid, spazzy townie" way. It feels very controlled and deliberate, which is just strange and scummy. I'll write something up when it's not 5am >>
Hapa, I'd very much like to hear your case or whatever it is on rayn, because he's someone I've felt quite good about.
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Yeah, I'm pretty worried about Ange now. She didn't really achieve anything at all when she was in the thread last night.
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I really don't think yamato is mafia. And I don't think Hapa is either. And I don't know how you feel strongly about Oats and ShiaoPi being town. Basically wtf :/
I agree with GK - we need to see what you have.
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I'll let the non-malicious dig on my Day 1 slide...  I'll just talk about a couple of other things. Could you explain the differences you believe there to be in Oats' thought processes between town/mafia? I admit freely I haven't had much luck reading him lately until the game goes later (where he usually drops off in activity quite markedly as mafia) and on Day 1 I've misread him several times. I'd say that I think Oats is town myself, mostly because beyond the usual banality there's evidence of actual thought that seems to be missing in his scumgames, I think.
As for the ShiaoPi post, I don't find it very good, it actually worries me more than earlier on, when I thought ShiaoPi might be town because his interactions seemed sincere/honest with his explanations of his really dodgy opening post. For anyone who played/watched Dr Who with me, it felt similar to my interactions with Sharrant when I was suspicious of him, although I'm far less sure on my outcome with ShiaoPi. The remaining problem I have with Shiao is that he and GK seem to have gotten into this ding-dong which only affects them, or, at least, everyone else is largely ignoring.
Aside from that I'm still not getting the yamato scumvibe thing and Hapa can answer for himself. I think some of the points you make are valid, but don't necessarily make him scum - but yeah, that one's Hapa's ball to field.
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On June 22 2013 23:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, talk to me.
what's your read on Cora?
Seems town, because he's mimicking his total prickishness towards me in all games to a tee.
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