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On June 21 2013 14:37 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:32 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:31 DarthPunk wrote:On June 21 2013 14:29 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:25 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 14:24 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:22 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Yamato
We're at about ~5 pages of filter, so you should have enough information to carry this game. What are your thoughts on the players who have posted so far? Coag and DP are the only people I'm actually worried about at this point. Talk to me about DP a bit. It usually takes me a while to have a concrete read on him, so I'm surprised you have worries this early. He just hasn't done anything that would make me swing either way about him. This continued angry-man act is a bit disconcerting. So you are 'worried about me for no reason' and the only thing you mention is something which i have done consistently as both alignments since the beginning of time. Why would you mention me at all if you actually had no reason for the read? And what about coag? What has coag done to make you worried? It's precisely that neither of you have done anything particularly townish at all that worries me. It's obviously early, but I have quite a few soft town reads already. Yeah, don't try and explain this away. You made reads and are now backing out of them because you had nothing to back them. Why make them in the first place? Townies don't make reads just for the sake of it. You pulled shit out of your arse for no reason just so you could say something. Seems suspect.
I never said I though you were scum. It's been clear that I'm only looking at you because you aren't acting townish, when you are more than capable of doing so. Now, you could still be town, but nonetheless, you're worth watching.
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On June 21 2013 14:38 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:36 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:33 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 14:32 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:31 DarthPunk wrote:On June 21 2013 14:29 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:25 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 14:24 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:22 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Yamato
We're at about ~5 pages of filter, so you should have enough information to carry this game. What are your thoughts on the players who have posted so far? Coag and DP are the only people I'm actually worried about at this point. Talk to me about DP a bit. It usually takes me a while to have a concrete read on him, so I'm surprised you have worries this early. He just hasn't done anything that would make me swing either way about him. This continued angry-man act is a bit disconcerting. So you are 'worried about me for no reason' and the only thing you mention is something which i have done consistently as both alignments since the beginning of time. Why would you mention me at all if you actually had no reason for the read? And what about coag? What has coag done to make you worried? It's precisely that neither of you have done anything particularly townish at all that worries me. It's obviously early, but I have quite a few soft town reads already. This makes absolutely no sense. DarthPunk is one of the most notoriously hard-to-read players on TL. Why would him not doing "anything particularly townish" be a cause for concern? Especially when he's incredibly good at acting "townish" as scum? It's a process of elimination, obviously. I'm not worried about the other people who have posted. I am still perplexed about DP and Coag's alignment. I don't think there's that much to argue about, really. Both of you seem to be admitting to the fact that nothing he has done is alignment indicative. So what is it exactly that you mean by "worry"? If you think DP is a null read, that's a very odd word choice. Also, does the bolded imply that you have town-reads on every other person who has posted in this game? Because I find that very hard to believe given the sample-size thusfar.
I have weak town reads on most of the other players in the game, for varying reasons. At the very least, I can ignore them until later in the game when their alignment should be clearer.
Why DP isn't one of those town reads is cause for concern, yes. He's been perfectly readable in the past.
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On June 21 2013 14:41 ShiaoPi wrote:
why is yamato so pro at looking scummy as shit regardless of what alignment he is? anyone tell me? Or am I remembering wrong?
This is the kind of thing I expect out of a scum Shiao.
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On June 21 2013 14:44 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:41 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:38 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 14:36 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:33 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 14:32 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:31 DarthPunk wrote:On June 21 2013 14:29 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:25 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 14:24 yamato77 wrote:
[quote]
Coag and DP are the only people I'm actually worried about at this point. Talk to me about DP a bit. It usually takes me a while to have a concrete read on him, so I'm surprised you have worries this early. He just hasn't done anything that would make me swing either way about him. This continued angry-man act is a bit disconcerting. So you are 'worried about me for no reason' and the only thing you mention is something which i have done consistently as both alignments since the beginning of time. Why would you mention me at all if you actually had no reason for the read? And what about coag? What has coag done to make you worried? It's precisely that neither of you have done anything particularly townish at all that worries me. It's obviously early, but I have quite a few soft town reads already. This makes absolutely no sense. DarthPunk is one of the most notoriously hard-to-read players on TL. Why would him not doing "anything particularly townish" be a cause for concern? Especially when he's incredibly good at acting "townish" as scum? It's a process of elimination, obviously. I'm not worried about the other people who have posted. I am still perplexed about DP and Coag's alignment. I don't think there's that much to argue about, really. Both of you seem to be admitting to the fact that nothing he has done is alignment indicative. So what is it exactly that you mean by "worry"? If you think DP is a null read, that's a very odd word choice. Also, does the bolded imply that you have town-reads on every other person who has posted in this game? Because I find that very hard to believe given the sample-size thusfar. I have weak town reads on most of the other players in the game, for varying reasons. At the very least, I can ignore them until later in the game when their alignment should be clearer. Why DP isn't one of those town reads is cause for concern, yes. He's been perfectly readable in the past. You have town-reads on SloOsh, Sylencia, and ObviousOne already? This needs some 'splainin.
Sloosh and Sylencia are people to ignore until later in the game. Sloosh is obvious as town and absolutely lurk-fucking-tastic as mafia. No need to concern myself when time will tell with him. Sylencia might be a coinflip either way, to be honest, so I ignore him until he flips or something.
OO's townread of Oats is ballsy at that point. I don't expect a scum OO to jump into the game calling someone under fire town.
Coag is worth worrying about because I have no idea how he plays, but he's obviously here, reading the thread, just not very active except when mentioned.
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On June 21 2013 14:49 Coagulation wrote:
actually as town I usually claim my power role in PM/breadcrumb asap because of the simple fact that I never fucking look town no matter how hard I try anyway so its pretty laughable to be making an issue of it couple hours deep in the game.
Well, I've never played with you, so how am I supposed to know where to put you?
In with Sylencia you go, then.
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On June 21 2013 14:50 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:48 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:44 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 14:41 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:38 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 14:36 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:33 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 14:32 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:31 DarthPunk wrote:On June 21 2013 14:29 yamato77 wrote:
[quote]
He just hasn't done anything that would make me swing either way about him. This continued angry-man act is a bit disconcerting. So you are 'worried about me for no reason' and the only thing you mention is something which i have done consistently as both alignments since the beginning of time. Why would you mention me at all if you actually had no reason for the read? And what about coag? What has coag done to make you worried? It's precisely that neither of you have done anything particularly townish at all that worries me. It's obviously early, but I have quite a few soft town reads already. This makes absolutely no sense. DarthPunk is one of the most notoriously hard-to-read players on TL. Why would him not doing "anything particularly townish" be a cause for concern? Especially when he's incredibly good at acting "townish" as scum? It's a process of elimination, obviously. I'm not worried about the other people who have posted. I am still perplexed about DP and Coag's alignment. I don't think there's that much to argue about, really. Both of you seem to be admitting to the fact that nothing he has done is alignment indicative. So what is it exactly that you mean by "worry"? If you think DP is a null read, that's a very odd word choice. Also, does the bolded imply that you have town-reads on every other person who has posted in this game? Because I find that very hard to believe given the sample-size thusfar. I have weak town reads on most of the other players in the game, for varying reasons. At the very least, I can ignore them until later in the game when their alignment should be clearer. Why DP isn't one of those town reads is cause for concern, yes. He's been perfectly readable in the past. You have town-reads on SloOsh, Sylencia, and ObviousOne already? This needs some 'splainin. Sloosh and Sylencia are people to ignore until later in the game. Sloosh is obvious as town and absolutely lurk-fucking-tastic as mafia. No need to concern myself when time will tell with him. Sylencia might be a coinflip either way, to be honest, so I ignore him until he flips or something. Ok, that's fair. Show nested quote +OO's townread of Oats is ballsy at that point. I don't expect a scum OO to jump into the game calling someone under fire town. Offering a town-read and calling him a good policy-lynch isn't exactly a "ballsy" opening. Show nested quote +Coag is worth worrying about because I have no idea how he plays, but he's obviously here, reading the thread, just not very active except when mentioned. I really don't understand why you equate null with "worry-some"
Why would scum OO call Oats town at that moment? Unless he's just posting to post, I don't see it. that may be the case, but I feel that it's more likely that he's town from that post than scum.
Null reads are not town reads, which means that they COULD be scum reads, I just don't know yet. So until they give me a reason not to, I concern myself with reading their posts and trying to figure out their motivations.
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On June 21 2013 14:54 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:51 yamato77 wrote:On June 21 2013 14:49 Coagulation wrote:
actually as town I usually claim my power role in PM/breadcrumb asap because of the simple fact that I never fucking look town no matter how hard I try anyway so its pretty laughable to be making an issue of it couple hours deep in the game. Well, I've never played with you, so how am I supposed to know where to put you? In with Sylencia you go, then. So why, then, did you expect him to look town already, and thus justify your 'suspicion of him'
I generally assume people I don't know have the ability to look town on their own. My mistake, obviously.
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We're obviously on the same page about Oats. No reason to worry about that.
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On June 21 2013 15:00 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 14:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
Coag until Marv gets here would you like to contribute something to the town? well if my theory holds I already solved the game so you can think me post game. MARV/OATS scum team owned ez.
What makes you think there are only 2 scum in a 14 player game?
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ScumShaio, LXI
On April 22 2013 11:54 ShiaoPi wrote:Sooo....more or less caught up now. Let's first clarify my stance on BM: I was curious if anyone would just jump on it without too much reasoning. Now on BM in general I loathe his play as it is fucking terrible as town, look at the endgame of LVII for more details. Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 10:56 Sharrant wrote:On April 22 2013 10:44 ShiaoPi wrote:@ObviousOne: Which post are you referring to? This one: + Show Spoiler +On April 20 2013 14:20 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 13:56 Ace wrote:
*looks at player list*
*shakes head in a bored way knowing he will lynch Bill Murray with ease Day 1* but but....he is EVIL??!!! or this one: + Show Spoiler +On March 25 2013 17:59 ShiaoPi wrote:I actually wanted to /in but then I saw grush and BM in the playerlist.....not again...never again.../obs or if you want a cohost with an East asian timezone, I'd be up for that too  Still got shittons of catching up to do, just saw that as I scrolled over the last page ShiaoPi, at your earliest possible convenience I would like you to tell me how you feel about Raynepelikoneet, TheRavensName, Hopeless1nder, and one person of your choosing. I'll accept as low as one sentence on the first 3, but whoever you choose I'd like you to write something of decent size about. Raynepelikoneet: Nothing to see here. TheRavensName: Just some noobing around. Hopeless1nder: Also nothing of note here. There you go, one sentence each. You also asked to have something on someone else with decent size? I CHOOSE YOU SHARRANT! In all seriousness, I do not like the direction your posting is going to: You begin by heaping suspicion on TRN with some crap arguments and drop you vote. I would not take offense if this was just used in terms of pressuring someone who's play you think is lackluster. However you do not even refer to him again as scummy as soon as other people said that they thought he was noob. TRN is absent during this time but even after he returns you seem to have conveniently forgotten his existence when you saw that nothing was sticking. I mean you do not even take into account the post TRN made after he popped back in: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2013 10:32 TheRavensName wrote:Thank you for directing me to the podcast. I ended up listening to it while I did some work and read the thread before having to run off to do some errands. Huge help in making me understand a little bit more. Still not sure I understand how spam is town, but apparently the expliantion is spam is townie... Since basically they said if your really active no one will want to kill you and that seems like good scum motivation too. + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2013 04:56 Sharrant wrote:
@TheRavensName
Who would you like to lynch right now?
Could you please link me to any games you have played on TL or elsewhere?
Do you think Oats is more likely scum, or more likely town?
Since I was asked, I have been in the last 3 NMM games in a row, your free to find them yourself (Isn't there a big database of games?) but I don't really think I can read into how I playbecause I ended up playing differently all three games. I don't know how Oats plays so I dunno if he really just spams that much at the start, so I will ignore that. I like how he points out the thing about Palmer's town read and trying to act like it was super awesome when it didn't do much so yea.... I feel like its a good point and its the only thing of any real substance in his filter. So, I would like to see something that seems more useful; I don't want to make a judgement off of basically one real point repeated a few points. I would be against lynching Rayn. In one of the Newbie games we played together we were in a similar situation and he took the opportunity to rip through me and just tunnel the entire game, so I think if he was scum this would be unlike him and I feel like I could have been a pretty easy push if he wanted to since he managed to basically do it before off less, even if there are much better people here who could see through it. (Unless he wantsto be my budy. dun dun dun.) In the same vain, I think Sharrant started out by taking a really easy way out of attacking me right out the gate and then just focuses on me and pushes around till hearing a few people saying that I was at least not scum, and then hops on Rayn without any real expliantion besides that hes going after BM for the miller soft claim and the fact that BM seems to be being useless, but that makes Ray more scummy then BM or someone else when Ray is actually being fairly active? So based off what I can figure out, I dislike Sharrant. He was convinced I was vote worthy, then hoped off before I got a chance to respond, but doesn't want to make a comment on BM til lBM shows up. Seems sketchy for me, and would probably be my vote target at the moment, but there is plenty of reading to be done and lots of time for more things to read.  Now if I recall correctly your potential scumlist right now should read something like: Rayne, TRN, Sylencia ? Soooo what happened to your read on TRN?
Contemporary ScumShiao
On June 22 2013 00:10 ShiaoPi wrote:sorry went off for a round of dota Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 23:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you agree you were saying something just for sake of saying something? The post I did was in order to verify if my impression of yamatos play is shared by everyone or at least some of the other players. so no that post was not only for the sake of saying something. Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 23:14 marvellosity wrote:On June 21 2013 23:08 ShiaoPi wrote:
Because that is what yamato does (at least in my memory)? Yes, it does not help anyone to determine his alignment right now, but what did you expect, words of wisdom in every post I do on day 1? It's just something to keep in mind.
I am thinking you are blowing this way out of proportion When have you played with yamato that has given you this impression? Cannot pin point it to a certain game right now, would have to look in his game history again, but it is more I always feel like wanting to shoot him for some posts he does. take it as you want, I am really dont feel like like searching for specifics right now. Now on GK: The case on oats is bad since I have not seen anything really alignment indicative from oats right now. gk is just using oats playstyle against him to look contributing and scumhunting, usual scum motivation stuff. His play also feels a lot like I swear this is normal mini mafia, which just ended recently and where I and gk were scum. (minus the inactive replacement shenanis) Also gk is most surely familiar with oats' play so taking this "easy" target is something I think is clearly scummotivated
+ Show Spoiler +
Buuuuuuuuuuuuulllllllllllsssssssshhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttt
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Also
##Vote ShiaoPi
Until further notice.
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On June 22 2013 03:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Yamato, I look forward to the explanation. Shaio's more recent posting moved him more back to null for me, and I really don't see what's similar about those two quotes you pointed out.
1) He makes a terrible opening post that he tries to brush off as meaningless
2) He goes on to divert attention to someone else
ScumShiao
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On June 22 2013 03:47 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:On June 22 2013 03:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Yamato, I look forward to the explanation. Shaio's more recent posting moved him more back to null for me, and I really don't see what's similar about those two quotes you pointed out. 1) He makes a terrible opening post that he tries to brush off as meaningless 2) He goes on to divert attention to someone else ScumShiao Hah. The architecture is uncannily similar.
And wouldn't you think that this kind of "architecture" is exactly the kind of tell that gives away scum?
Note that his terrible initial posting came under fire both games, indicating that he generally has a hard time making opening posts as mafia. As a tried and true tactic for getting out of it, he explains away his posts and chooses to divert attention to someone else he can quickly come up with a case on.
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If he's pulled this exact maneuver as scum before, why wouldn't he do it again?
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On June 22 2013 03:54 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:52 yamato77 wrote:On June 22 2013 03:47 Hapahauli wrote:On June 22 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:On June 22 2013 03:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Yamato, I look forward to the explanation. Shaio's more recent posting moved him more back to null for me, and I really don't see what's similar about those two quotes you pointed out. 1) He makes a terrible opening post that he tries to brush off as meaningless 2) He goes on to divert attention to someone else ScumShiao Hah. The architecture is uncannily similar. And wouldn't you think that this kind of "architecture" is exactly the kind of tell that gives away scum?Note that his terrible initial posting came under fire both games, indicating that he generally has a hard time making opening posts as mafia. As a tried and true tactic for getting out of it, he explains away his posts and chooses to divert attention to someone else he can quickly come up with a case on. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If he's pulled this exact maneuver as scum before, why wouldn't he do it again? No, I think it's precisely stuff like 'architecture' that's how meta is totally misapplied.
So you don't think that I'm at all accurate in my analysis of what has gone on in this game and that game?
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So if it isn't alignment indicative, as the both of you claim, I suppose there's nothing else about his posting that raises any alarms.
##unvote
Notably, he is on my watch list still.
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I'm not entirely sold on this GK thing, though. It doesn't seem all that out of the ordinary to be confused by how Oats plays. Aside from that, I believe everything he is writing is from a town perspective.
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On June 22 2013 04:13 Hapahauli wrote:
Anyway, GK is still my top-scumread.
His first post/entrance on Oats was pretty bad, and his second case on Shiao is based on him clearly not reading Shiao's posts.
@ Rayn
Current thoughts on Yamato?
@ GK
Ditto on Oats?
You're not reading very hard if you think GK believes Shiao's case on him is totally meta. He says it is partly meta, which is absolutely true.
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For reference:
On June 22 2013 00:58 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 00:43 ShiaoPi wrote:On June 22 2013 00:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 22 2013 00:32 ShiaoPi wrote:On June 22 2013 00:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 22 2013 00:10 ShiaoPi wrote:sorry went off for a round of dota On June 21 2013 23:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you agree you were saying something just for sake of saying something? The post I did was in order to verify if my impression of yamatos play is shared by everyone or at least some of the other players. so no that post was not only for the sake of saying something. On June 21 2013 23:14 marvellosity wrote:On June 21 2013 23:08 ShiaoPi wrote:
Because that is what yamato does (at least in my memory)? Yes, it does not help anyone to determine his alignment right now, but what did you expect, words of wisdom in every post I do on day 1? It's just something to keep in mind.
I am thinking you are blowing this way out of proportion When have you played with yamato that has given you this impression? Cannot pin point it to a certain game right now, would have to look in his game history again, but it is more I always feel like wanting to shoot him for some posts he does. take it as you want, I am really dont feel like like searching for specifics right now. Now on GK: The case on oats is bad since I have not seen anything really alignment indicative from oats right now. gk is just using oats playstyle against him to look contributing and scumhunting, usual scum motivation stuff. His play also feels a lot like I swear this is normal mini mafia, which just ended recently and where I and gk were scum. (minus the inactive replacement shenanis) Also gk is most surely familiar with oats' play so taking this "easy" target is something I think is clearly scummotivated The case on Oats is bad for sure. I'm just trying to figure out if it's scum!GK or town!GK doing this. You seem to be sure of him being scum because you have voted for him. It does not matter if GK has done this as scum, the question you did not answer is do you have evidence that he has not done this as town? Is your meta-case valid or not? I think mainly based on gut feeling and comparison with the last game as scum we had together. Cant remember the last time goodkarma rolled town with me playing as well. Also you just objectively judged that the case is terribad, so why do you need so much meta? Meta is much more of a helpful factor in my opinion not necessarily the argument to get somebody lynched. So I see gk doing that case on oats which is scummy as shit and then compare it to his play in I swear, I think its similar so it reinforces my scumread on him... To be honest I don't even know what your problem is My problem is that you are voting for GK based on meta, because he once made a bad case against someone as scum. Guess what? Townies make bad cases too, especially early on in the game. I am not saying i think GK is town, but you seem to be so sure he is scum because of this meta you are describing, especially when you are under attack from some people now. If you are going to make a meta case at least get your facts straight. Look at Les Mafia, look at GK's case on me and tell me that the case GK made can only come from a scum!GK. its not specifically a meta case, meta is just supportive of objectively scummy play by fabricating a case based on a players inconsistent, wild playstyle If your case isn't based on meta, then why are you drawing on your experience with me from last game to incorrectly reach the conclusion that I'm scum this game? You in fact are relying in part on meta here... And without any kind of understanding of my townplay as a baseline to work from at that... I would be very interested in knowing who else you think is scum, or if I'm your one and only scumread atm?
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On June 22 2013 04:16 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 04:13 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not entirely sold on this GK thing, though. It doesn't seem all that out of the ordinary to be confused by how Oats plays. Aside from that, I believe everything he is writing is from a town perspective. If it was GK's first time seeing Oats play, I'd understand a bit more. But he saw him in action as town last-game and should expect this wild, random behavior. Other than that, his cases just read very forced. He's harping on individual points that are incorrect (Shaio's case on GK being all meta) or non-allignment indicative (Oats moving on from his Hapa/DP scum-line) and calling people scum for it.
The first point I've obviously proven demonstrably false. The second point is also unrepresentative of what went on, he specifically made the point multiple times that it was Oats' jump onto my wagon along with his abandonment of his other reads that made him suspicious, which I also thought was odd at the time. Later on it becomes clearer what is going on with Oats, and GK obviously realizes that as well.
This is all in his filter, Hapa.
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Shiao's post WAS, at least in part, based on meta. That much is obvious, and that part is the part that GK takes issue with.
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EPT
