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I Swear This Is Normal Mini Mafia - Page 7

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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AxleGreaser
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia1154 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 11:21:38
June 15 2013 11:19 GMT
#1372
On June 15 2013 15:01 jampidampi wrote:
Well played scum team, well played. It's kinda funny that this game could have ended D2 if scum won the election.
7-3-1
misslynch
6-3-1
nightkill
5-3-1
mayor condemns
4-3-1
and then the survior votes with scum and they have a majority.


Good thing hapa didnt roll scum then

also neither the survivor nor the scum mayor would be sure the other existed.
but yeah a scum mayor D1 looks bad
Axle(OnlySomeTheoriesToAbsurdToBeConsidered)Greaser
AxleGreaser
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia1154 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-15 15:52:30
June 15 2013 15:51 GMT
#1377
On June 15 2013 23:53 jampidampi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 15 2013 20:19 AxleGreaser wrote:
On June 15 2013 15:01 jampidampi wrote:
Well played scum team, well played. It's kinda funny that this game could have ended D2 if scum won the election.
7-3-1
misslynch
6-3-1
nightkill
5-3-1
mayor condemns
4-3-1
and then the survior votes with scum and they have a majority.


Good thing hapa didnt roll scum then

also neither the survivor nor the scum mayor would be sure the other existed.
but yeah a scum mayor D1 looks bad

Even if scum don't know there is a survivor, it's still D2 LYLO.


Oh yeah, didnt think of that, from that point of view.
Axle(OnlySomeTheoriesToAbsurdToBeConsidered)Greaser
AxleGreaser
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia1154 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-16 16:02:54
June 16 2013 11:46 GMT
#1398
On June 16 2013 11:02 goodkarma wrote:
Well, anywho, I figured I'd outline some of my thoughts on this game.

Without a doubt Axle (especially) and Shao did some of the heavy lifting for scumteam this game. But I definitely believe that my scumgame also had its place on the team.

+ Show Spoiler [Good Stuff] +

"Replacement" Shenannies

I definitely did make a point of "milking" my status as replacement. I bet that Marv comes in here and says that's unsportsmanlike, but it was definitely the right move as far as I was concerned. I replaced in at night, and immediately I had identified Hapa as the only real threat to getting me lynched early. BH I felt would be sore from misreading me last game. And everyone else I felt wouldn't be taking the lead in determining who should be lynched, especially with Axle and Shao looking so "townie." As such, I knew that when Hapa had been removed I'd be in a spot of relative safety.


And as for Oats's suspicions of me from my first post, I was never really worried that he'd get me lynched. He may have been right about me, but I felt it was for the wrong reasons. To be sure I probably would have had reads out sooner, but my first post would have been the same regardless of alignment. And what's more, if he was serious about lynching me he should have been at the very least spamming his case in addition to saying I should be killed a bajillion times. I'm under the impression that town kind of lost sight of why Oats wanted me dead so bad, and what that meant is he kind of came off as a bit of a mad-man.

As for his case, it literally came down to "omg your first post," which certainly wasn't that hot. But I hadn't read the game, only skimmed it. And as a replacement I felt compelled to full-read it before taking any real stances. Like that is something I would have done regardless of alignment. I'll definitely try to keep up with any game I might replace into in the future so that such shenanies don't occur again.



Soft Pushing BH Mislynch:

Because of how handily cheesed town was this game, people seem to overlook the implications of looking super-townie for scum after a mislynch or two. Like town tends to be pretty emotional and fickle, and will easily turn on you the moment it's clear that you were steering a mislynch. While Axle and Shao were pushing their own wagons, I made a cute little case on BH and sat my vote on him. When it became clear that no one cared to move their votes around to prevent the mislynch, I decided to sit there and literally afk lurk from thread.

I felt BH looked townie enough that he shouldn't be mislynched close to the end of the day cycle, and as such I just let it happen. It was far easier in my mind to lurk it out, than to explain how I actively pushed a mislynch the next day. I mean it was pretty clear the results were the same. The main objective I had as scum was to see to it that the town was lacking any kind of leadership ability whatsoever, so while BH was playing pretty poorly, I was moreso worried about the discussion he could draw than of any of his actual analysis (if that makes any sense).


Post-BH Lynch: Setting myself up for possible Bus and Buddying Vayne

It was pretty clear that the game was almost, if not already won, at this point. However, I was aware that if night actions went the wrong way things could fall apart. I made the decision to bus Shao a bit, as I was pretty certain that if it came to choosing between the two of us I'd probably get lynched. And Shao would come off as looking very townie in the process. If somehow we didn't get mayor the next day, "town cred" was (even at the expense of me) all our scumteam needed, because if we ever got mayorship town would be changed from a LYLO situation to a losing situation. In the scenario where it lasted another day (without us getting mayor), I felt getting me lynched was a way to secure the mayorship.

In the background, I was thinking of NK'ing Oats that night. He was not really a threat as far as getting us lynched, but then again he did look townie and kept talking. Above all else, I wanted a lurky-town without direction, so he seemed like a reasonable target. But then we saw in-game Syl came out with that great post calling all of us out. On top of that, he in-thread suggested he wasn't a vanilla-townie. We took this to mean he was blue, but turned out he was 3P... We had a big argument in scum QT over whether he was RB-er lol. Thankfully, Stutters RB'ed him for us though it really didn't even matter if our shot went through.

And with Vayne, it was pretty clear he'd be an easy mislynch the next day. If anyone were to look at his prior townplay, it's pretty obvious he isn't the most transparent guy with his thoughts and actions. He definitely wasn't playing stellar this game, but if you compare this game to his scumgame, you really should have been asking yourself if he'd attract attention to himself the way he did. The Oats shot was especially bad, but kind of a towntell in some ways. Like he could easily have asked for more town feedback, and taken an opportune shot as scum. And in the process, looked a little less suspicious. The big thing though, is there were no counter-claims to his cop claim. And sure he could have faked it, but why would you take the chance when you haven't flipped any scum yet? Like it was pretty much LYLO, so if you don't get everything right you're finished anyway. So why not seek to lynch the other scum first, and see if the RB-er even exists?

As town, people tend to suspect those that suspect them. This is a bit subpar imho, but it is something that happens just as an emotional aspect of this game. As such, I figured I might as well suggest Vayne wasn't a good target. Going against thread sentiment in that way I felt made me look townier. And on top of that, lynching Vayne was flat-out bad given the circumstances. It kind of surprised me how much town wanted him lynched tbh.

I mean hate on my lurkish scum-play all you want, but in the end I somehow came off as townie enough at least to Vayne to get the mayorship and effectively end the game day 3. I also had WoS fooled, which doesn't really surprise me given that he has some lowly opinion of me as "lynchbait" which I fully exploited this game. I also "townread" Stutters a bit because it felt natural to do so (I mean I do this a lot with him). Honestly, though, his early play really didn't warrant it. It came down to choosing my enemies. I didn't want to go down hard on too many townies, and townreading a few definitely helped me make enough friends to survive until the end of the game.


Regarding Our Overall Scumplay:

Syl was able to spot our whole scumteam. What that should show to all of town is that we were definitely all spot-able. There was a profound degree of bias running in this game, as in people would set in their mind who was town and never reassess their reads. Most notable here is Axle, who everyone seemed to believe was town. The lesson that should be learned here is that effortfulness =/= towniness. Like Axle spent pretty much half the game half-heartedly pushing Wave, and no one seemed to care... He asked a lot of questions, but never really seemed to spend a whole lot of time actually pushing a case. This was pretty much exactly what Syl was saying, and it was spot-on.

Shao also had some pretty telling moments. Last-minute voting a candidate that had literally zero chance of getting lynched was certainly one of them... As was how wishy-washy he was in taking a stance on me. But more telling than any of that in my mind was activity. Axle and Shao were both guilty of this: post-day one they posted far less content. Which if they were paragons of town makes no sense, since town needed them more than ever at that point. They literally coasted by on day one reputation for most of the game.

That's not to downplay their scumgames, they were incredible.


Anyway, those are my thoughts. Thanks to the hosts for putting up with scumteam submitting day 2 actions three times (lol), for putting up with my wishy-washyness in replacing in, and for putting together a fun game
And thanks to my scumpals for playing such crazy good scumgames <3



The game has still been running (wifoming) around in my head since it ended. and i had noticed an omission on my part.
I got up to here(above the spoiler) and thought yes(because I wanted place to post this post).

and the thought I had was oops, GK... our Glorious in victory mayor.... So yeah you had place on our team..
You were our GoodKarma scum Mayor

Not everybody on every team does the same job. Even if one of us had bussed the other two, its not the one guy alive at the end that did it. it might be the one guy that saw they were going down early enough and positioned the others to ride it.


+ Show Spoiler [lame excuses] +

Why I forgot at the end. During D1 I kept jamming in my head, omg must nominate that D1 case.
Then that loooong wait then gush. So sorry GK.
We didn't talk about that stuff you posted above during the game, I was mainly just hoping youd do Ok, but .... errr ... wow.
With scum buddies like you not flipping and hence zero linkages, distancing, ...

Axle(OnlySomeTheoriesToAbsurdToBeConsidered)Greaser
AxleGreaser
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia1154 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 03:27:02
June 17 2013 03:26 GMT
#1406
On June 16 2013 21:14 Sylencia wrote:
town just needs to be less close minded


In my mind there are always possibilities. (Some of them are there because i am bad at the game and think stuff possible/plausible that isnt.(see previous games for numerous examples))

In this game near the end I said + Show Spoiler +
Ok.
Vayne shot pre-emptively ending the days discussions.
That has scum motivations and achieves a scum purpose ending discussion.

But why Vayne did it matters. Is he bad? or scum.
I want to know as well.

I don't however want todays discussion terminated and tomorrows as well because it is decided
as a fete accompli that we are going to lynch him.

even that is not all of the things that were, to me, possible.

I am sure some of the other things, are silly as they involve me guessing what Vayne was guessing was going on, and that doubles the error. Here you(the reader) try...
What for instance would Vayne do if he thought there was small chance I was scum. Yoloing shot on me and being wrong would have been absolutely game losing. Hitting my scum buddy.. could open up the connections. Or if i was town hitting person who might be hiding in plain sight and had me totally fooled might...
Once you open your mind and remember the other person making the decisions has different information and guesses about what is going on to you, I find the game becomes more complex, that is one of the reasons I used to freeze in headlights.

Note to vayne: No need to spoil anything by saying why. The point of the above is not to know why but to see why wondering is important. Of course if you want you can say why or not.
Axle(OnlySomeTheoriesToAbsurdToBeConsidered)Greaser
AxleGreaser
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia1154 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-17 06:01:50
June 17 2013 05:58 GMT
#1408
On June 17 2013 13:24 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2013 12:26 AxleGreaser wrote:
On June 16 2013 21:14 Sylencia wrote:
town just needs to be less close minded


In my mind there are always possibilities. (Some of them are there because i am bad at the game and think stuff possible/plausible that isnt.(see previous games for numerous examples))

In this game near the end I said + Show Spoiler +
Ok.
Vayne shot pre-emptively ending the days discussions.
That has scum motivations and achieves a scum purpose ending discussion.

But why Vayne did it matters. Is he bad? or scum.
I want to know as well.

I don't however want todays discussion terminated and tomorrows as well because it is decided
as a fete accompli that we are going to lynch him.

even that is not all of the things that were, to me, possible.

I am sure some of the other things, are silly as they involve me guessing what Vayne was guessing was going on, and that doubles the error. Here you(the reader) try...
What for instance would Vayne do if he thought there was small chance I was scum. Yoloing shot on me and being wrong would have been absolutely game losing. Hitting my scum buddy.. could open up the connections. Or if i was town hitting person who might be hiding in plain sight and had me totally fooled might...
Once you open your mind and remember the other person making the decisions has different information and guesses about what is going on to you, I find the game becomes more complex, that is one of the reasons I used to freeze in headlights.

Note to vayne: No need to spoil anything by saying why. The point of the above is not to know why but to see why wondering is important. Of course if you want you can say why or not.


Doubt anyone will believe me but take it for what its worth:

I secretly wanted to shoot you the entire game since you were basically playing one of my favorite scum metas, where you just ask a bunch of useless questions the whole game that seem townie. I wrote it off as how you play though since Hapa townread you and my downfall this game was putting too much weight into what Hapa thought. Didn't think shaio or GK was scum.

What caused me to shoot Oats was his flipflopping on the BH lynch, go through his filter around that time and it just looks ridiculous. I had to shoot him on sight.

I played terrible and I will be the first to admit it, just not during the game.


I have a really bad feeling it might be quite a bit like how I play town... and BTW many of the questions would not be useless to me if I had been town. That you don't know why I ask the questions, or what answers will tell me you are scum or town, will if I also get my towny game together, be my edge.

Oh and BTW its now my favourite scum meta,
Axle(OnlySomeTheoriesToAbsurdToBeConsidered)Greaser
AxleGreaser
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia1154 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-18 00:56:35
June 17 2013 08:46 GMT
#1409
This thread seems to be in serious risk of taking itself seriously...
(Well Ok, I was and that always turns out bad)
A seriously axle post will thus fill this space shortly...

In the meantime here is some elevator music...


This space unintentionally left blank




(edit: typo "" => "be")
Axle(OnlySomeTheoriesToAbsurdToBeConsidered)Greaser
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