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I'm probably not the best person to say this given my posting nature, but the posting restriction seems really excessively restrictive.
Dr Who was a recent 12 player game and had a roughly 30 page day 1, and I don't think anyone in that game would argue it was spammy at all; it was also one of my more restrained games too and I had a little over 5 pages of filter, very little of which I would deem unnecessary - the lynch ended up being between 2 mafia, brought about by conversation and participation.
The fact of the matter is that people need to argue for their lynch and potentially pursuade ~20 other players; people change their mind, etc. etc. I find it hard to believe that, say, a 3 page filter is excessive in a day cycle.
EDIT: e.g. syllogism had ~50 posts on Day 1 in Fruity Mini Mafia, and I don't think anyone ever argued syllogism was a spammer.
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On June 05 2013 23:44 DarthPunk wrote: normal mini started.
nuh uh, it was s&b joining
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Typical I replace in for someone easy to read. I have 15 posts total including this waste of a post, so 14 after. I've not been reading at all yet, so proper posts will come later this evening when I've had time to read and digest.
One post that I did read was FirmTofu's large post right at the start of the game. I'm fairly sure Firm did in fact lie at least once as town in his last newbie game, and defended his actions repeatedly in the obsQT of that game. I'm curious to know why the sudden change of heart about not lying as town.
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When's the lynch? I probably have a few posts to donate if someone has an emergency btw. Also, if anyone wants to mason me (a couple have so far) that'd be just swell.
I'm kinda annoyed Vivax is posting coherently and in detail, thought he was pretty scummy from his first long bollocks post, but apparently not. Would love me some Vivax lynching. Moving on.
I think VE is a bad lynch. Don't really see why he should be scum other than the normal reasons people jump all over his ass every game. Logs with Vivax seem to indicate some thought.
On July 18 2013 03:09 HiroPro wrote: VE do you even realize that Malongo has never posted anything about sloosh?
In other news, I'm like 95% certain that sloosh is mafia.
95%? Don't throw out numbers if you're not gonna justify how you're THAT sure he's scum. so why?
I'm not 100% sure I buy Firm's reasoning for switching his stance on lying as town. I don't get why the fact it's a closed setup means that lying is suddenly totally awful, whereas in a semi-open setup you can lie repeatedly. Makes no sense. Further, I don't like how his suspicion of DrH went. By about page 16-17 (I just read the whole game in a row) I was thinking DrH looked really quite town, and Firm's continued suspicion of him seemed pretty off. I also don't like how he's graciously now calling DrH less suspect, without actually responding to DrH's case on him.
On July 18 2013 06:41 FirmTofu wrote: I will be voting VE. He hasn't said anything to convince me that he isn't scum and many people share my sentiment of him. He is much more likely to get lynched than DrH and is a far better lynch than slOosh.
##Unvote:DrH ##Vote: VisceraEyes
*Why* is VE a far better lynch than slOosh? This is just saying things. I literally can't see the rationale for slOosh having played so townie (he hasn't) that he's a much worse lynch than VE.
Finally, if VE is right that Chez is smurfing as Kholly (I assume it was the edited out post Chez made?) then Kholly is actually a good lynch. I've no idea how to be certain enough to gamble the whole lynch though. If Kholly IS Chez, this kinda post is really bad:
On July 17 2013 06:34 kholly wrote: First impressions:
DoctorHelvetica VayneAuthority Hapahauli gumshoe
All the names there were the townier names in the thread at that point.
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DrH - I had noted down to talk to you about Oats in my notes, but then it seemed lynch was close so I didn't bother so it didn't seem important. I don't think he's mafia at the moment, I'm leaning town on him. He always does the inane "who's scum" thing as either alignment, the difference that I'm slowly picking up recently is that he actually shows some genuine thought as town; I have noted down that he actually provided decent insight into FirmTofu and the PM business regarding slOosh and vayne. I'd also say that Oats is prone to contradicting himself pretty regularly, and I see it as much less of a scumtell from him in particular than others.
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On July 18 2013 06:04 slOosh wrote:
Nothing. No real reads, no desire to engage me either to read me or get reads on other people, and he only started "pushing" Malongo after I sent this message. He is typically one of the most dominant thread presences in all his town games and only tends to lurk (if ever) in his scum games.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
This is some prime bullshit by the way slOosh. Anyone who knows VE also knows that in the past several months he's been significantly less active in general, in both his town and scum games.
What's particularly ridiculous is that you're calling him out for lurking (?) when this is a post-count restriction game and he's used up almost all his posts already.
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No, Hiro, you really haven't.
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So Kholly is Chez after all. I could happily lynch him.
Not sure about slOosh. I think he's being terrible with this VE thing but... arg.
But I'll probably vote anywhere to save VE if it came to that.
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On July 18 2013 07:40 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 04:49 HiroPro wrote:
On July 18 2013 04:30 yamato77 wrote: Rayn, talk to me about Sloosh. Generally when I've played with Sloosh and he's scum, he goes into afk lurker mode and never posts. Seeing as that hasn't happened yet, I'm generally not thrilled with the idea of lynching him. What makes him a better lynch than VE? but he is in afk lurker mode - he's barely posted and hasn't indicated a single person he finds suspicious. he's one of the most gifted town players in this game and massively struggles to put forth any effort as mafia. nobody has mentioned talking to him in PMs at all or even indicated any hint of conversation with him. It also seems quite unnatural that he still can't understand why people thought he was discouraging PM usage or why kushm4sta said he was nitpicking about that. What didn't you understand?
I don't understand where 95% comes from, like those are reasons to think he might be mafia, but to be that certain? slOosh was inactive/bad/whatever day 1 in Nomination Mafia, and (much like VE) has had a lot less time to post as of late, so I assume you've factored this in to your unusually high evaluation?
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On July 18 2013 07:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: hey instead of splitting the vote down the middle between sloosh and ve how about vote for firmtofu instead or at least can we even discuss it at all
he even backed off his accusations which is what everyone said a scum FT would do anyway so come on
I could be tempted to vote for Firm. I think.
Talk to me about Kholly. He's confirmed-Chez now and his reads have been the opposite of decent. Shit in fact. And Chezinu may be a troll, but he's not shit. Agree/disagree?
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How long until lynch?
Vivax, how do you feel about Chez? kush is a terrible lynch btw.
DrH, please don't ignore me, I don't wanna use my posts chasing people.
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I need to go for the night, I'm gonna vote Kholly/Chez as he's my best lead so far. All his reads have been silly, and the PMs gumshoe showed remind me immensely of the PMs scum-mason Chez sent to people in LIX. He's usually perceptive with his trolling when he's town, and here he's not.
##vote: kholly
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oh, er... ##Donate VE 2 posts or whatever I have spare.
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On July 18 2013 23:51 Ace wrote: I voted for VE because I felt like it. Was going to unvote and thats why I asked if he really claimed. When I see that 2 people are silly enough to claim Day 1 I just resign the guy to his fate. We've been through this and he should know that move is bad for Town and we know he is capable of fake claiming. Add in rayne's claim and Scum know who is not the cop or doctor, and either can get lynched for lying in the future if Town. Bad plays but hey I'm not even reading the thread anyway.
Yes, you've been through it and he flipped town as well last time. You can keep blaming him but actually you don't ever learn yourself, you just repeat the same mantra and then the obvious happens. There's no point calling other people bad when you're unwilling to adapt yourself.
You've used up both your masons, Hiro?
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VE flipped town last game, so anyone who lynched him was wrong. It's that simple. I know you love justifying your townie lynches though, so you can go on thinking it's the right move if you like.
So would I, Hiro
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I'll mason you gumshoe. I'd been pondering it anyway.
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I'm curious, Firm, why slOosh is now a solid scumread when yesterday, based on the same filter, you called him townie and said he was a much worse lynch than VE (before you decided VE was a bad lynch after all)
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On July 19 2013 18:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Yamato77: And here I thought I masoned an intelligent, rational player.
Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: You're mafia
Hide nested quote - Original Message From yamato77: It's easy to say that after a lynch. I might have switched if I'd been there for his claim and shit but I was working.
But whatever, now it's even more important to scumhunt well. I don't know what the fuck Ace and Meapak are doing but between the both of them there's fuck all content produced. I knew I should have gone with my gut on MZ. He's been in the game since the beginning and hasn't even tried to actually play.
As for FT, dude, I'm not convinced. You've been tunneling him the whole day and it's gotten to a point where even if he is mafia, no one is listening to you. And again, even if he is mafia, there are still 4 others in the game alive, so it might be best to look at other people for a while. If it comes around tomorrow and he's still your strongest read, then maybe it's real.
Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: wait, did you vote him? ugh it was relaly obvious he is town
Original Message From yamato77: What the fuck?
Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: if you vote for VE i'm pushing you to be vig shot tomorrow night
Original Message From yamato77: er, scratch that. Oats calling me scum is not alignment indicative. He does that every game. He makes good points about VE in his posts and he's one of the most active players both in the thread and in PMs. I don't think an Oats case is going to be useful.
Original Message From DoctorHelvetica: oh, and it's important that oatsmaster doesn't know i think he is scum for a while at least
can you tell me when/if you plan on making a constructive post so i can PM you a poisonpill case to add to it, i'm really trying hard not to hit post limit before the last few hours pre-lynch, obviously if you change anything i will bandwagon you hard
My conversations were even more brief, I thought he could well just be busy townie tbh.
kholly's voting is indeed quite suspicious, but wouldn't that only make him confirmed mafia if Sloosh was mafia? His voting seems in line with keeping Sloosh alive more than anything. I'm looking really hard at Sloosh tomorrow.
To be honest, I haven't dug too deep in the whole DrH - FT thing, but it looked like a couple townies tunneling to me. But he's so gung ho on it and you seem to agree, I guess I'll actually read into it better.
Original Message From marvellosity: Vivax ended up looking better later in the thread. VE's lynch was a travesty and you should feel bad.
kholly almost confirmed mafia, FT looks likely mafia at this stage too.
Hide nested quote - Original Message From yamato77: I've come to completely ignore Vivax because of how badly I misread him. You don't think he's posting like that simply because of the post restrictions?
Original Message From marvellosity: just got to that first vivax post. makes me want to kill him immediately. scum vivax loves long pointless posts of crap.
Original Message From yamato77: If you are, I'm going to just resign myself as the unluckiest player of all time, lol.
Original Message From marvellosity: now i wasted one of my masons on an obvtownie :p
i promise i'm not supposed to kill you this time
Original Message From yamato77: Hapa masoned me at the start of the game. It was a pregame agreement, heh.
Original Message From marvellosity: I replaced Hapa. Are we masoned? If so, did you mason me?
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On July 19 2013 18:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote: yamato's PMs implicate FT even more. but yeah i guess my case was total shit anyway right? i hate tl towns day 1, actual cases get completely dismissed but get 3 idiots chirping about VE without saying anything logical and everyone sheeps it because it just clogs the thread
goodbye tofu
I would've voted FT yesterday, except you ignored me TWICE when I asked you about Kholly, and I got salty about it.
Will vote either kholly or FT, I'll just see how the thread goes really.
One of my mason partners thinks that yamato's red-flip makes slOosh look worse because yamato was defending slOosh on day 1 (?), but the impression i get from my logs is that yamato was looking to push slOosh tomorrow, so I dunno. That only makes sense (in slOosh-mafia land) if scum thought slOosh was already a liability at that stage, and I'm not sure at all that that's the case.
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On July 19 2013 18:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Why the fuck would Ace the scum fakeclaim to lynch a townie when it would basically secure his lynch tomorrow, he is already under something of a hotseat (but not that threatened compared to MZ, sloOSh) that's a 1:1 scum trade with a townie, Ace is one of the best scum in the history of TL Mafia I don't give a fuck about WIFOM he would NEVER do that. I already proved FirmTofu was scum on Day 1 but no one wanted to read! There is no defense FirmTofu can give. He should be completely ignored at this point.
The lynch is already decided. We need to determine if we have another town day KP or who we can shoot tomorrow night, bring out yamato/FT's teammates.
Splintering wagons onto Ace may have been a ploy to save sloOsh in the case that he was lynched.
He literally did it in Roulette Mafia as scum. Claimed cop day 2, lynched his check day 2, got lynched day 3.
So yeah, he WOULD do that actually.
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On July 19 2013 18:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Would he do it twice in a row? This fits my confirmation bias that I am almost 100% sure that FirmTofu is scum regardless, so I'm not willing to venture into conspiracy theory territory. If a cop claims a guilty check, that's where our votes needs to go. If he sacrifices 1:1, then the town still one. But let's consider yamato throwing suspicion onto Ace right away in PMs to me, he's saying a lot of the same things i think I recall firmtofu saying as well, didn't FT want to lynch Ace instead of VE at a certain point?
Look for anyone that sheeped Yamato in the meantime, but FT is cooked.
Lol, from NEVER to never twice in a row? I hope Ace knows he's sane. I also desperately hope that Hiro was a weird mafia-hit, because that would be hilarious.
I'm willing to roll with the red check, also willing to lynch kholly who is 99% mafia to me by now. Also if we could conjure up a double lynch so I could spite-lynch MZ, that would be lovely.
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We probably need to be lynching s&b for that shot.
First, kholly.
##Vote: kholly
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MZ is probably douchebag town, vote for kholly please.
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On July 20 2013 19:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: No townie should be a douchbag and he is clearly not even trying to play the game, and when he is he is saying bad stuff. For example, see how he answers the Oats case. He is not even looking at the case but instead saying "i don't see anything scummy in his filter". He hasn't done anything that helps town and MZ is not that bad.
Kholly is second on my list.
Yo lurkers, if you are town gimme some posts as you cleraly don't need them. I do.
I don't really care if no townie should be a douchebag, for some reason he's decided to be for much of this game.
Kholly is way more likely to be mafia than MZ. kush thinks I didn't "defend" VE enough so I'm not going to let you vote for someone I think is a bad lynch compared to Kholly.
strongandbig - I would like to know who you talked to in PMs regarding your shot on Ace, and if there are any logs of you doing so. If it was a unilateral shot then... well, yeah.
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You're ok Koshi. I'm your guardian angel for now <3
##Donate kushm4sta: 2 posts
Vayne, I don't really like much of anything you posted there about kholly/s&b/layabout etc. I don't think it's scummy, just not good. In my opinion it's a massive mistake to write a terrible shot off as "he's apathetic" because it's too easy. At the very least massive, massive pressure should be applied to s&b for what he did.
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On July 21 2013 03:36 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2013 03:30 marvellosity wrote: You're ok Koshi. I'm your guardian angel for now <3
##Donate kushm4sta: 2 posts
Vayne, I don't really like much of anything you posted there about kholly/s&b/layabout etc. I don't think it's scummy, just not good. In my opinion it's a massive mistake to write a terrible shot off as "he's apathetic" because it's too easy. At the very least massive, massive pressure should be applied to s&b for what he did. Why would SnB, who has already been under heavy pressure this game, willingly post in the thread that he is going to shoot somebody? Makes zero sense from a logical point of view if he is scum. If you can answer me that then maybe I will give the case more weight. Until then it's just scum looking for a reason to off another PR.
There's no logical town-reason to shoot Ace either. People always seem to fail this test. Does it make sense as scum? No? As town? No? Usually if it doesn't make sense from either alignment it points towards scum. I learnt this from LI as a freshfaced newb when I couldn't work out VE's claim from either a town or a scum perspective and it confused the fuck out of me, and it turned out to be some elaborate scum ploy.
If scum have a day-vigi shot, then they are going to use it. Take LX as an example, Chezinu was mafia and just shot some townie... because... he had a shot. To kill a townie. For free. And then people like you (I don't mean that derogatively, just people in general taking your attitude) say "but why do that as scum". Well, to shoot a townie and have other people defend them with wifom, that's why.
Looking at it from your perspective, s&b has gotten away with shooting Ace for no god-damn reason because of your "well why would he" defence. Bad.
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I could say why Meapak would do that as town but it wouldn't be polite.
You've picked up on the apparent effort that s&b has put into some of his posts compared to the Ace shot, so how that ends up as null to you is pretty baffling to me, to be quite honest.
Shooting Ace like that when at the very least there's Malongo/kholly/probably various others is super serious.
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So yeah I'm appearing very briefly because typing is hard
kill kholly for fuck's sakes you useless twats
that will be all
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oh yeah, and now Nuclear has finished.
Chezinu killing some random townie because he could in Nuclear ----> s&b, who has also conveniently disappeared. whatever.
People let these important things slide for reasons that are totally beyond me
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um, ##donate: the rest of my posts to whoever claims them next
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On July 21 2013 14:11 slOosh wrote: Crap so sorry guys I went to my first wedding and didn't realize how long it would take, will step up tomorrow
First things first: if you can come up with a plausible theory of how/why you were pardoned, I will be deeply impressed.
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Gosh, what will I do now that you don't like me going after kholly?
In any case, I already have someone in the thread who shares most of my opinions. Possibly more later when I've chatted more. Feel free to mason me if you wish, because the chance of me making some nice-looking posts is probably quite low.
Sunny day, nobody about, cricket's on, spliffs being smoked. Priorities :D
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On July 22 2013 15:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Marv was telling me he agrees with FT but would rather lynch Kholly but doesn't do anything in the thread really to put traction on that, since I already had some traction early on, why didn't he default back with me? I'm assuming that's not what happened but I guess I can't really speak until I catch up.
Because kholly is/was a better lynch, silly. Anyone talkative have a spare mason? The fun I was having this game was chatting with Vivax (almost unbelievably, perhaps).
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Oh and if Vivax isn't calling me mafia, it's pretty likely I'm not mafia guise. You know what town-Vivax is like. Anyway there's like billions of players to kill, so first things first
##vote: slOosh
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On July 22 2013 19:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah but Vivax wasn't actually calling you town marv.
Vivax never calls me town. Him not wanting to lynch me is a big step up, you know.
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On July 22 2013 19:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have been suspicious of you from the point when i learned you were masoned with Vivax. You guys have a fuckton of discussions with each other, yet you can't agree to a lynch of any sort. You havn't really helped the town to get on the right track and we have been discussing useless stuff in thread.
I think you have been no help this game and that's not characteristic for you marv. That's why i believe you are mafia. It's been two cycles and you have basically wanted to lynch kholly with shitty reasons, and who btw is probably town.
Why is kholly probably town? I keep missing this memo? If anyone has good reasons for that to be the case, I'm listening.
If you genuinely believe I decided to spend hours and hours of my time in an IRC chat with Vivax as mafia for giggles, then I don't know how to help you. I don't have that dedication (any more, anyway).
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You have a greencheck on him or something?
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Thank you, very productive.
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On July 22 2013 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 20:37 kushm4sta wrote: for end of game bragging rights:
3 scum left, 1 sk left (unclaimed shot on yamato)
drh kholly rayne ? some other random person First of all you are wrong probably on everyone in your list. Do you think Sloosh is town as you seem like? Explain the pardoning on Sloosh. Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 20:46 kushm4sta wrote: @vayne how many pardons do you have? could you pardon yourself? I am assuming you mean me? I have one, as i have had whole game. I have not asked if i can pardon myself but i would assume yes.
Given he said 3 mafia left, I'm taking kush to mean he thinks slOosh/strongandbig are confirmed. I'd also assume you can't pardon yourself, that seems a bit silly. Imagine impeaching a president and the president waiving the charges or something.
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I was just flicking through Vayne's filter, and in doing so I came across this again:
On July 22 2013 08:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is no reason why you should not have voted for Sloosh on D2 as your team pardoned him. I pushed his lynch on both days.
Under the assumption that slOosh is flipping mafia, this is actually a really important perspective to take out of it. Looking at people who didn't want to kill slOosh day 1 and then did on day 2 might be a good place to look for a mafia or two.
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Seems I'm burping through my posts a little, sorry about that. Decided to have a look at the day 1 and day 2 votecounts. All this taken under the assumption slOosh is mafia.
+ Show Spoiler [Vote Counts] +On July 18 2013 12:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Vote count incoming.
VisceraEyes - 6 Oatsmaster
gumshoe slOosh yamato77
FirmTofu Ace strongandbig
layabout
kholly kholly
VayneAuthority - 0
DoctorHelvetica
DoctorHelvetica - 1
kholly
FirmTofu Meapak_Ziphh
Sloosh - 5 raynpelikoneet VayneAuthority HiroPro kushm4sta
VisceraEyes
Vivax
Vivax FirmTofu
Kholly - 1
gumshoe marvellosity
Strongandbig - 1
Vivax
gumshoe Vivax
raynpelikoneet - 0
Koshi
Sandroba - 0
Malongo
Malongo - 1
VisceraEyes Koshi
Oatsmaster - 0
DoctorHelvetica
Firmtofu - 1 DoctorHelvetica
gumshoe
Meapak_ziphh - 5 Mr. Wiggles layabout Malongo
kholly gumshoe VisceraEyes
Ace - 0
Vivax
VisceraEyes has 6 votes and is to be lynched. This will be finalized and posted in 20 minutes. If anyone can verify my count it would be appreciated. On July 21 2013 14:20 geript wrote: DoctorHelvetica (0): kholly, kholly, Vivax
FirmTofu (2): Ace, Malongo, DoctorHelvetica, raynpelikoneet, strongandbig, Kushm4sta, Adam4167, kholly, Oatsmaster layabout (1): slOosh
Ace (0): FirmTofu, Ace, FirmTofu kholly (1): Vivax, Koshi, FirmTofu, Marvellosity Oatsmaster (0): raynpelikoneet, Vivax Vivax (0): Kushm4sta, FirmTofu Meapak_Ziphh (1): Korynne, FirmTofu, Oatsmaster, raynpelikoneet slOosh (9): Mr Wiggles, Kushm4sta, layabout, raynpelikoneet, Vivax, VayneAuthority, Korynne, Koshi, Adam4167 strongandbig (1): Koshi, kholly VayneAuthority (1): Malongo
Not Voting (1) : Meapak_Ziphh
Day 1: slOosh: rayn, Vayne, HiroPro, kush, FirmTofu Day 2: slOosh (9): Mr Wiggles, Kushm4sta, layabout, Meapak_Ziph, raynpelikoneet, Vivax, VayneAuthority, Korynne, Koshi, Adam4167
So people marked in blue are people who voted slOosh both days, and therefore look quite good. Incidentally I'd say that at this stage, it would be a good reason for Vayne and rayn to stop taking slugs out of each other, even though it's nice for a bit of rhyming. At the moment I think you're both town.
Bold people are confirmed flips, and anyone in unbolded green is a current town-read of mine. So that leaves Wiggles, layabout, and Adam (a replacement).
Pre-edit: Votecount was wrong, layabout wasn't voting for slOosh, and Meapak was but omitted on geript's votecount
Here's what Wiggles had to say about slOosh day 1:
On July 18 2013 05:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
-snip-
I think a lynch between MZ and VE would be a good choice. I'm not as sure about the Sloosh lynch. He hasn't done too much, but having a couple posts defending himself is not so bad in my opinion, simply because he was attacked by several people for his opinion on PMs. So, to use posts talking about that after seems natural, similar to how Tofu had posts defending himself based on his post about the traitor.
And then day 2:
On July 21 2013 03:00 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I haven't posted yet. I was hashing things out in PM yesterday.
I don't think MZ is the best lynch for today. I don't get as much of the same feeling I did yesterday that he's scum.
I generally agree with Vivax's reads and they fall in line with a lot of what I've been thinking. I think Sloosh would be a good choice for the lynch today. I didn't think he was as scummy yesterday, because he was attacked quite early, so focusing more on defense wasn't incredibly alignment indicative, but since yesterday, he hasn't made up for it. After the pressure on him stopped, he hasn't really done anything. He's made an analysis on layabout, but he's not actually pushing for anyone to vote for him. Compare the effort he's put in to getting layabout lynched compared to the effort he put into his defense on Day 1. It's pretty disproportionate. This shows that he was more worried about saving himself from dying compared to the effort he's put into finding scum, and now that he needs to help hunt scum, he's done just enough to look like he's helping.
Additionally, Sloosh was soft-defended by Yamato a few times, with him making excuses for Sloosh's activity and lack of sucmhunting. Even his last post where he says that he maybe wants to lynch Sloosh, he puts a condition on it, saying that he'll only lynch him if he doesn't start scumhunting. This gives sloosh yet another out. This is somewhat relational, and while secondary to what I wrote above, is still another mark against him.
##Vote: Sloosh
One curious thing about it is that he's backing off what seemed to be a pretty damn strong scumread on MZ for no actual reason other than "I don't get as much the same feeling.". Also, I feel the context of Vivax's mason logs is kinda important:
On July 22 2013 08:50 Vivax wrote:Posting my logs cause I'll die anyway: mason: WigglesThis guy has really been a pain in the ass to chat with. He's hesitant, lacks proactivity, disappears randomly. I always had this scum feeling about him. If I had to fill the next slot for scum it'd be him. He also did some sketchy switch. When I asked him in chat who he would lynch now immediately, he said layabout, the next thing he did in a post was voting SlOosh. I asked him about it, he replied with this, make of it what you will, but this guy has to post a lot more, it's absolutely not ok that he has gone ignored for so long: ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ From: Mr. Wiggles [ 4716 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: Mason Date: 7/21/13 03:43 I feel like the case on Sloosh is strong as well. I also don't think MZ is a good lynch, and it feels like there's more support from the people I think are town for a sloosh lynch compared to a layabout lynch. I'd be alright lynching either, but I feel Sloosh is now the better choice for today's lynch. It will also give us more information based on what happened Day 1. Show nested quote +Original Message From Vivax: In chat yesterday you said you'd lynch layabout instantly if you could. Why do you pick SlOosh now that I actually found a piece of evidence about layabout that's one of the most damning pieces in my cases? ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Wiggles feels like scum, he's robotic, his stories have this feeling of "narrative", he tries to deliver straight stories as much as possible, especially his PM there looks kinda fabricated, not that it matters, cause remember, SlOosh S & B and layabout have priority imo, Wiggles needs to be pressured a lot more.
The emphasis is mine. Seems Wiggles found himself on slOosh despite basically ignoring him day 1 and thinking there were better targets (layabout) day 2. Conclusion? Looks pretty fishy, but not conclusive.
Spoilering the layabout stuff I wrote below because the votecount was wrong :/
+ Show Spoiler +So how about layabout? Day 1 slOosh mentions: On July 18 2013 09:44 layabout wrote:
-snip-
For a 24 player game we have a vote's spread pretty thinly: here are the leaders as far as i can tell and we should not be lynching slOosh. votes sloosh: 5 raynpelikoneet VayneAuthority HiroPro kushm4sta VisceraEyes VE: 3 FirmTofu yamato77 slOosh snb:2 Vivax gumshoe Interesting anyways. Why shouldn't we? On July 18 2013 09:55 layabout wrote:
-snip-
It's important to note that the things you share in PMs and the things you share with the thread are very different. In general stuff in the thread is posted to works towards a goal like getting reaction persuading people directing discussion etc. But in PMs you can talk about the game the big and the small, the little things that you are thinking about but might not want to share with the thread or that you want another opinion on.
But a very large part of VE's reason for voting slOosh is that slOosh is PMing VE about the small stuff. Or rather something that VE does not think should be the main focus of the game right now. But what slOosh has done is send a perfectly reasonable PM and VE has tried to use that to tell us that slOosh's priorities are skewed as if slOosh had posted that in the thread.
VE's entire reason for pushing slOosh is inflated and intentionally out of context.
Moving on to after the day 1 lynch.... On July 19 2013 10:47 layabout wrote:
slOsh's attitude really does not fell like the attitude of somebody that is trying to find scum. I think he is deliberately overlooking stuff that should be obvious . slOosh now scummy, after saying he was a terrible lynch day 1. On July 21 2013 11:29 layabout wrote: apparent ly mz was lying as a joke. what a dick. i athinkingm about not playing with him again. what a horeible attitude.
why has no one pmed me yet?
if i am around i might switch to slOosh. but i havent filtered him and i am not thinking straight And............ just realised this is all hopeless, because the Day 2 votecount was wrong and layabout was actually voting for MZ, and not slOosh. Lame.
And Adam... not a lot to say about Adam.
On July 21 2013 11:21 Adam4167 wrote: I'll sheep rayn right now since I don't have time to do much else.
Those PM's from sloosh are uninspiring.
##Vote:Sloosh
That's all we have.
Meapak... I kinda think he's town, and it's a bit hard to pin him down on his filter. Day 1 MZ fails to mention slOosh at all. Post Day 1:
On July 20 2013 01:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Ace my man I thought your reveal was gonna have more... flair. Must say I'm dissapointed son.
I for one would much rather lynch sloosh than FT
First mention that I can find.
On July 21 2013 05:10 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I like me some sloosh lynch.
On July 22 2013 08:32 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Actually lets make a deal vayne, we lynch sloosh. He flips town, we kill rayn. He flips scum, we kill you.
This one looks pretty terrible, but ugh. I have to say I'm really just crossing my fingers and hoping MZ is town, because I can't give any massively rational reasons why it should be the case.
Just some general musings on votecounts; On Day 1 Meapak had 5 voters, as one of the 3 main wagons. 3 of the wagon have flipped town (gumshoe, VE, Malongo) leaving Mr Wiggles and layabout. This alone makes it pretty likely at least one of Wiggles and layabout was mafia - working on the assumption that at least 3 of the wagon on VE were mafia (yamato/slOosh/s&b, possibly kholly...).
It's kinda unfortunate there were so many no-shows on Day 1, leaves a lot of information missing.
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On July 23 2013 03:37 strongandbig wrote: I went afk because i got busy this weekend and we're lynching sloosh no matter what anyway. Why does everyone call me scum whenever I get busy?
Other than inactivity what's the case against me? Vivax has been tunneling me all game (just like he does every game) based on my bad first post, but everyone else seems to just have been coasting along with his tunnel.
And I will defend the ace shot to my grave if necessary. There was no reason to leave him alive and every reason to want him dead.
Can you please do so, as you haven't really defended it at all so far... for example, I asked you a question before. It's in my filter if you want to find it, I bolded your name and everything.
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No, it's just that this is a completely different sort of game, so comparing the two styles is a pretty fruitless endeavour.
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On July 23 2013 18:21 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Am I really worth killing? I'm just trying to stay out of the way, since vayne doesn't need vets I'm waiting to be dazzled by his scum hunting brilliance
That's not even the main problem with what Oats said.
Vivax didn't say he wanted to lynch you at all? So I have no idea what Oats is talking about.
Wiggles is going through the motions and not even reading/responding to the thread at all anymore.
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It would especially surprise me.
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slOosh masoned me. Apparently mafia have an SK check on me, but I'm not SK. Tried to get what information I could, but he was careful. Skype logs. I'm Andrew.
[10:21:00 PM] Inwho: hello? [10:21:05 PM] Andrew McDougall: hey [10:21:20 PM] Andrew McDougall: soooo [10:21:25 PM] Andrew McDougall: you dead [10:21:39 PM] Inwho: um yea :/ [10:21:43 PM] Inwho: well [10:22:00 PM] Andrew McDougall: about that [10:22:28 PM] Inwho: so if you haven't figured it out [10:22:30 PM] Inwho: I'm scum [10:22:34 PM] Inwho: pretty obv [10:22:42 PM] Andrew McDougall: excellent [10:22:45 PM] Andrew McDougall: so why did you mason me [10:23:18 PM] Inwho: we know you are sk based on cop check [10:23:41 PM] Andrew McDougall: interesting [10:23:47 PM] Inwho: we are offering you a joint victory [10:23:59 PM] Andrew McDougall: :/ [10:24:02 PM] Andrew McDougall: how do I go about that? [10:24:21 PM] Andrew McDougall: I understand you'd want something from me, else you wouldn't be doing this lol [10:25:30 PM] Inwho: mhmm [10:25:50 PM] Inwho: we want to not stack kp [10:26:18 PM] Andrew McDougall: who do you want to hit? or who should i not be hitting [10:26:21 PM] Andrew McDougall: whatever you want to tell me [10:27:38 PM] Andrew McDougall: also you have a cop, wat? [10:28:54 PM] Inwho: hold on talking in scumQT [10:45:06 PM] Andrew McDougall: this is so unexciting. [10:45:17 PM] Inwho: yea my bad :/ [10:47:28 PM] Inwho: is it evening over there? [10:47:46 PM] Andrew McDougall: it is [10:47:48 PM] Andrew McDougall: 22:47 [10:48:06 PM] Inwho: ah pretty late [10:48:15 PM] Inwho: ok so we have done the talkings [10:48:22 PM] Inwho: and we want you to shoot the koshi [10:49:20 PM] Andrew McDougall: what will happen in upcoming days? [10:50:11 PM] Inwho: There's a really complicated situation we need to sort out first [10:50:31 PM] Inwho: i.e. we aren't sure right now [10:50:49 PM] Andrew McDougall: i think my point is dear [10:50:52 PM] Andrew McDougall: you're going to be dead. [10:51:22 PM] Andrew McDougall: so unless you think me killing koshi is enough, then we need somethng a bit more sophisticated than this [10:54:08 PM] Inwho: how do we trust you [10:54:22 PM] Andrew McDougall: i don't know, and i understand why that's a problem. [10:54:34 PM] Inwho: hrmph [10:54:36 PM] Inwho: well [10:54:53 PM] Andrew McDougall: if I propose a couple of shots maybe? [10:55:12 PM] Andrew McDougall: i know you gotta cover your ass [10:57:09 PM] Inwho: Could you propose three shots, and we will choose between them and koshi. [10:57:36 PM] Andrew McDougall: you understand I meant for nights going forward, not this one ? I'm happy to shoot Koshi tonight, simply because he thinks i'm mafia lol [10:58:14 PM] Inwho: oh hold on then :x [10:59:05 PM] Andrew McDougall: silly billy. just think about it, you're proposing we avoid stacking shots but you're only giving me tonight to do so, which is fine and dandy. If that's fine for you guys then whatever [10:59:18 PM] Andrew McDougall: just seems pretty wasteful [10:59:29 PM] Andrew McDougall: if I'm going to side with you we need to kill off town asap [11:00:34 PM] Inwho: KK could you propose 3 for the following night? [11:00:43 PM] Andrew McDougall: sure [11:00:47 PM] Andrew McDougall: let me go have a check. [11:02:06 PM] Andrew McDougall: rayn/adam/oats [11:02:45 PM] Inwho: why rayn? [11:03:02 PM] Andrew McDougall: claimed pardoner + got muted by mafia [11:09:21 PM] Inwho: kk. we want you to shoot koshi tonight, and we'll contact you tomorrow [11:09:36 PM] Inwho: and we want to ask if there's anything else you want to tell us [11:09:49 PM] Andrew McDougall: i guess one of you has a mason then [11:09:59 PM] Andrew McDougall: anything i want to tell you? [11:12:17 PM] Inwho: stop making fishing comments or we will shoot you [11:12:46 PM] Andrew McDougall: I'm a slut for information [11:12:57 PM] Inwho: alrighty then [11:13:02 PM] Andrew McDougall: feel free to try to waste your shots on me though bbygrl x [11:13:22 PM] Inwho: kk this is the end of our correspondense [11:13:27 PM] Andrew McDougall: ok [11:13:28 PM] Inwho: *correspondoce
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what the fuck is wrong with you people?
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I don't provide that shit to the thread to incriminate myself, you know.
Although it seems pretty obvious that slOosh opened with that to incriminate me.
Are you really that slow?
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How was it a misguided attempt to look town? Jesus fuck. I brought it to the thread because I have a scummer claiming scum to me and asking me to shoot at people.
I have no idea why scum came to me. Again, the alternative is to NOT post a conversation where it looks like I'm SK. Why is this so excruciatingly obvious to me and yet everyone else doesn't get this?
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Literally copy/pasted when we'd finished.
He also called me handsome (no homo) btw.
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Can't really be bothered to play particularly if people are going to keep calling me mafia for non-reasons. I've been upfront about any conversations I've had, and spent literally hours of my time talking about mafia to Vivax, as should be evident from our logs. If I'm suddenly red despite how all the actual options have behaved (say wiggles, layabout, Meapak) then there's nothing more I have to add to the thread.
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They're at the end of Vivax's filter.
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What's going on with you, kholly? You've spent a decent portion of the game calling me mafia, yet you seem to be defending me now. No comprendo.
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On July 24 2013 23:25 Koshi wrote: Oats do you realize that you are soft defending marv this game? It looks a bit like you and Ace in Nuclear.
He's defending me because he's not an idiot. Would you like that accolade too?
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Forgive me, I thought it was common sense that spoke in my favour.
Apparently that's a precious commodity around these parts though.
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That's a pretty terrible defence of me, thanks Oats
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I think he's town, but I'm not totally confident.
A decent part of that is seeing some of the logs between rayn and Oats (proxied through Adam).
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I think you guys have way too much respect for the amount of effort I'd put into masoning/logs if I weren't town :/
Me and yamato faked our logs, I faked logs with slOosh, and I made infinite-logs with Vivax for shits and giggles? Really? :/
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The reason I'm so incredulous is that I just find it so unbelievable lol
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I guess I best start shooting town then!
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I don't have cred, it's just dumb to think I'm not town, that's all. So who do I shoot? I'll let you decide Korynne, you seem like a nice fellow. I'm thinking rayn, I know he loves being shot.
Pewpewpew, pewpew! *kaboom*
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Deadly, deadly serious. Don't wanna shoot s&b though, he played in my first newbie with me. Such a qt patootie.
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On July 25 2013 05:59 Korynne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 05:55 marvellosity wrote: Deadly, deadly serious. Don't wanna shoot s&b though, he played in my first newbie with me. Such a qt patootie. What kind of excuse is that? Wanna shoot MZ then to clear you two up? Or you just gunna make up some new excuse? How about you just give me a list of people you won't kill so we don't have to waste posts going back and forth.
It's a fine excuse. You'll have to read the spoiler to find out more.
+ Show Spoiler +
Anyway I'm going to stop posting as I'm sure I must be around my limit. I'm sure I'll be around tomorrow, because mafia have no reason to kill an SK who could shoot into them, amirite?
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On July 25 2013 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Don't talk about a rolecop rofl. Right after the check information is out marv comes up with the sloosh chat. This implies scum know about the check. I am inclined to believe this person is Oats because i think Korynne is town.
Also MZ looks way better than marv and we are not lynching him. Vivax was suspicious of marv. Wtf has SK been doing since N1, shooting same targets than mafia? marv has been very bad, hell he didn't want to lynch sloosh on D2 when it was obvious he was scum (i don't mean the end of the day, he should have figured it out earlier). MZ on the other hand was the first to call yamato out, was one of the first people to vote for sloosh in D1, and his reaction to the check was WAY more townie than marv's.
marv is either SK or mafia, and we need to kill him asap. ##Vote: marvellosity
This post made me vomit. Are you scum rayn?
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kush is right, figure out the mole and you have a mafia. No reason for layabout to be shot otherwise.
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Like, can you guys just definitively decide if you want to lynch me *today*?
Don't want to limp through the game just to be lynched later on really. I'd much rather be lynched today so I can stop clicking on this thread if that's the way it's gonna be.
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Korynne, we do know for 98% that there's a rat, all other explanations are extremely unlikely.
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On July 25 2013 19:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also look at marv's recent posts. "kush is right, find the mole and you'll find mafia"....
Riggghhhhht. You want people to find the mole when you should be convincing us that MZ is scum/SK, AS YOU CAN BE SURE OF IT IF YOU ARE TOWN. But no..
Are you really that dumb and superficial?
You don't think *I* would know what I "should" be ranting and raving about "if" I were town? Seriously?
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On July 25 2013 20:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:This is my thought process regarding marv and his actions today: [14:32] <Oatsmaster> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=58#1160[14:32] <Oatsmaster> so marv scum or town [14:33] <raynpelikoneet> i don't understand [14:33] <raynpelikoneet> why is he not trying to convince us MZ is not town? [14:33] <raynpelikoneet> why the fuck would you not do that if you are town? [14:36] <Oatsmaster> why the fuck would you not do that if you are scum?[14:41] <raynpelikoneet> to buy time [14:41] <raynpelikoneet> he is trying to get us to find the mole [14:41] <Oatsmaster> buy what time? [14:41] <raynpelikoneet> which we don't even know exists for sure [14:41] <Oatsmaster> oh [14:41] <Oatsmaster> like not lynch MZ [14:41] <raynpelikoneet> yeah [14:41] <raynpelikoneet> so that there is uncertainty [14:41] <raynpelikoneet> if we are looking for non-existent mole [14:42] <raynpelikoneet> it is possible laya was masoned with scum, say wiggles [14:42] <Oatsmaster> yeah [14:42] <raynpelikoneet> and people are trying to find the mole in you/me/Koshi/Korynne [14:42] <Oatsmaster> go and post that
The bolded is right. Buying time? Are you serious? Why does nothing anyone says make any sense anymore?
The thing is, I don't think there is necessarily an SK. I guess I could see MZ being an SK, I'm still not getting the scumvibes off him, so I'm unsure about that.
There exists the possibility that slOosh was actually telling the truth in a roundabout way and I was framed (also by scum), giving scum their check and layabout his check.
It's also very possible from my perspective that some mafioso knew of layabout's plans and framed me for precisely that reason, knowing the cop would get a check, and setting up slOosh masoning me and telling me that scum "knew" that I'm SK.
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On July 25 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
So here's my conclusion. I think it seems improbable that either of mz or Marv is actually scum. So I think we should lynch Marv for a couple reasons. (1) his play this game doesn't match either his scum or town play. Unless he's been way more active and involved in pms than he has here, it doesn't match his town play (which sometimes looks scummy but always looks leadery) or his scum play (which is quite active as well, and very ego-driven). Therefore, I think he is neither. (2) there's a possibility the scum do have a rolecop and that's why they contacted Marv, in which case they're giving us free information and it would be a shame not to use it.
What is this crap? We're in a 20-post game and you expect my play to look the same as every other game when I post 100+ times per cycle?
And I typed like a billion lines in irc with Vivax, how did you miss that? I've clearly been active and involved in PMs.
Your whole post reeks of bullshit.
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On July 26 2013 01:30 Koshi wrote: You 2 are so annoying.
@SnB Every time you come here to defend yourself. Your shot vs Ace was pure bullshit, imagine you having your shot now and we could shoot MZ and lynch marv, that would have been epic. But fuck that shit, you shot Ace. I am not even going to react on the marv case... marv can better prove he is town by doing towny things or he is next if you flip red.
marvellosity Are you ignoring my case against you? Or Vivax his case I must say. How come you were so wrong about FT? How come you were so wrong about Kholly? Why does Vivax respect your scum hunting so much? Why do you post 100 times per cycle in a no restriction game but can't you be bothered to put pressure on anybody this game? Why are you not dead? Why does it feel like you are confident to go with anybody in a lylo situation? Why can't you make a simple list like rayn did? Put suspects in red, town reads in green?
You don't give a shit about this game, however, you are always reading this thread. Don't denie it because you are quick to reply on a lot of posts.
Vivax didn't have a case on me, he just said to keep an eye on me. Which is a big step up from how he normally treats me - ref: Basterd where he tunnelled me all game, ref: LIX where he voted for me when I was mayor who just lynched mafia, ref: Personality 2 where he tunnelled me all game. "wary" is as townie as Vivax has ever been on me.
Wasn't so wrong about FT, thought he was mafia for quite some time, never confident enough to vote him. Got Kholly wrong because all his reads were weird as shit and I'm not used to that. Because I've caught billions of mafia in my time Because it's no restriction, and I've semi-checked out of this game Not dead because I'm pretty lynchable this game apparently I'm an arrogant asshole (not had a single thought about lylo though) Lists are for shopping (I lie, actually I don't mind lists at all, just haven't made one)
I did give a shit about this game, namely when Vivax was alive and I had someone to shoot the shit with. If you can genuinely read all the logs he posted and you think I didn't give a shit about this game, I can only assume you had your eyes closed. And yes, I compulsively follow threads.
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On July 26 2013 03:55 Korynne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 21:39 Koshi wrote: Could it be that Vivax was so right about his targets and marv so wrong? I think that this is unlikely. That is why I still want SnB to be lynched today. We need to follow Vivax guys, he is still town MVP and he has been death after night 1...
So I suggest we lynch SnB, a guy who we ALL suspect for being scum. I am going to keep following Vivax, I want you all to keep doing that.
My opinion on MZ/marv as a lynch target for today: MZ should never get lynched today. The only thing we have against him is a message from a flipped scum player, that claims that one of MZ/marv is "different". That's nothing really. We do not have a better chance on finding scum in MZ than SnB. marv is still a big red target for me, but I want to go SnB first to keep on track with what Vivax told me. If SnB turns red, then we all have to remember what Vivax told us about the hesitance of marv to go after SnB.
I don't understand what you and Rayn are up to. I agree that SnB looks scummy! But you seem to have read the conversation wrong. We have a message from a flipped TOWN COP that Marv/MZ is different (the flipped scum just called Marv an SK). THAT IS TOTALLY 100% GUARANTEED UNLESS TOWN COP IS TROLLING US.You can't just stick to Vivax. He's dead. New things have happened. Everyone needs to adapt to new information. Yes SnB looks scummy but one of Marv/MZ is confirmed anti-town. AND if one of them is the SK that reduces night KP by 1!!! Pros of killing Marv/MZ: - One of them is CONFIRMED anti-town, you guys know what confirmed means right? >_< - The anti-town member could have a scum role, or be an SK (SnB is vanilla scum at best after the shot at Ace)
There's such a thing as a framer you know. Jeez Louise.
I had someone tell me they're a parity cop checked me and Firm on n1 and n3 and we returned same. How does that sound to ya?
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So the person I'm talking to is mafia bullshitting me?
I've framed a target correctly in a game larger than this on N2. Just sayin' like
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Maybe Meapak is mafia after all, he's attempting to go full retard in either case. Sadly that isn't *necessarily* a scumtell for MZ.
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Also what drugs are you on if I think I'm 'resigned' to die?
Killing me today would be utterly stupid so I'm not even contemplating it. How is that 'resigned'? It's 'assuming town aren't a complete bunch of fuckwits' - easy mistake to make, I know
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By the way, to whoever said MZ looked "good" for how he handled slOosh, go filter me and find my long post on day 1 and day 2 votes. MZ looks atrocious for how he handled slOosh.
In any case, s&b is a better lynch than MZ I think.
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You're not reading my filter very well are you? I've been interested in s&b for a long time. Go look and you might find that it's pretty obvious.
Why would I show remorse about being wrong? What's the point? "Sorry guys, I thought kholly was mafia, but he wasn't" - happy?
I only look worse for Oats defending me if you're blinded by confirmation bias, which you are.
Call my play horrible all you like, you're the one repeatedly attacking a townie at this stage. I can fabricate scumreads and reasoning if you like. I'm terribly good at that. How hard do you think it would have been for me to conclude in that vote-analysis post that Wiggles looked terrible and was mafia? Would that have made me look better? Want me to waffle on about how Wiggles has stayed aloof from the game, has failed to comment on thread goings-on? This is all true, but I find Wiggles pretty hard to read because he never seems particularly involved. I'd *love* to tell you that I was totally convinced though. Or how about MZ - the obvious conclusion from what I looked at and much of his early play is that he's mafia. A case on MZ is fucking easy to make but I haven't god-damn made it because I don't think I believe in it. Could I be wrong and MZ is mafia? Yes of course I could, but I'm not going to push a case I'm not totally sure I believe in. Cold logic suggests from the parity cop check that MZ must be mafia. So fucking simple for me to jump all over his ass, pull up posts where he's actively trolling town during the start of the game, so easy to bring up posts where he actively isn't giving a single fuck about the Day 1 lynch, so easy for me to point out how MZ didn't even MENTION slOosh on Day 1, but on Day 2 was suddenly very happy with a slOosh lynch. I'm just desperately crossing my fingers that MZ wouldn't call town a bunch of idiots repeatedly on Day 1 as mafia, because that seems icky. Maybe I'm wrong and he did, I don't know. Want me to go make faux cases so I look all active and caring? Would you be jumping all over my ass now if I'd shown fake-conviction on say Wiggles and MZ? This bears repeating - mafia *KNEW* they had a pardon handy, jumping on to slOosh on Day 2 was a very easy way to "look good" because it ends up being pardoned anyway. If you're looking at an uncertain marvellosity, you're looking at a town marvellosity, because non-town marvellosity has no problem saying anything about anyone and making it look good. I've played 11 (I think) games as mafia/3rd party and won 10 of them - it's really easy to look like you care when you don't care, you know.
Or maybe I want to lynch the guy who randomly took a terrible shot on a townie, and then accuses a usually very-high-volume poster of "not playing like usual" as his only point of interest since shooting Ace in the whole game.
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Pretty sure I can find several games with 2 cops, don't think I can ever remember any with 3 vigis.
Oats could have claimed he checked me n2 if he wanted, the fact he said n3 only makes him look worse, not better. Stop flapping.
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How was that a martyr post? In any way? You're looking pretty bad to me right now Vayne.
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On July 26 2013 23:32 VayneAuthority wrote: and cmon your largest paragraph starts with "call my play horrible if you like..." that's like the definition of martyring. that's all you've been doing the last few days
Sorry, you have no idea what martyring means. Here's the definition of martry for you:
1. a person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce his or her religion.
Pretty evident that I'm not ready to die, or asking to die, or wanting to die. Not sure why you should be listened to if you don't have a basic grasp on english and terminology.
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You didn't ask a question.
Seriously, what on earth.
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Oh, the really stupid "what's the rest of my team"? I assumed that was just you being facetious.
I only need to catch one mafia today, and that's s&b.
Seriously, if you read my post on the last page and thought 'martyr' rather than just a general expression of my thoughts and frustrations, then you're basically not reading properly, and you should be ignored.
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I think you could be mafia because you're wilfully misreading and misunderstanding posts.
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I just posted extremely transparently and you repeatedly called it a martyr post despite the fact it's the opposite of a martyr post. Literally you called it the definition of a martyr post when by definition it couldn't even come close to being called a martyr post. As in, you clearly can't read, or you're purposefully not reading.
Good day to you sir.
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Basically I need to look over Korynne, because both you (koshi) and kush have brought him up. Speaking of the 'mole' (which is apparently very naughty and makes me terribly scummy or something) he would be the most likely.
As for VA, I was mainly just frustrated earlier. I don't *think* he's actually mafia, just infuriating to me. Being wrong isn't necessarily a scumtell or I'd have to be offering myself up to die. A lot of VA's filter is petulant anger (yes i know, shh) which I figure he'd do as town rather than as mafia; in the game I saw of him playing mafia he was much more careful not to ruffle feathers.
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Honestly the only thing I remember of Korynne is him tunnelling rayn really weirdly. Since then I put him down as an earnest newbie town and haven't paid attention to his posts so much.
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Shocking result! Apologise when you're ready Vayne
Good point about me not dying rayn, that's kinda irritating. My time unfortunately is totally limited today (i.e. saturday) because I'm off for a birthday party this afternoon until tomorrow.
Can we have a word on non-voters please? For example Adam needs modkilling I think?
sneakily hoping he's mafia
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Quick note on vayne - behaviourally I think he looks decently townie, but there's some really silly things in his filter.
One of the things I actually *did* do in this game was argue with Vayne about s&b's shot on Ace, and I think I was pretty damn clear why it was scum motivated, and despite explaining it pretty clearly Vayne was simply having none of it.
Urgle burgle.
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One more thing (sorry) - it seems like vote analysis for today/yesterday should yield some interesting things, but somehow I don't think mafia would have put all their eggs in one basket in trying to lynch me. I'm saying this without having even looked at the votecount and who voted where exactly, so take it with a grain of salt. Maybe it's a good conversation piece - did mafia really go all-in? or is there still a sneaky bugger hiding cleverly on the 'right' side of things
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Mocsta is either scum or totally atrocious. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's mafia.
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I'm clearly not the SK. I have a greencheck on me. What's wrong with you people?
1) there's no reason to believe SK gets to "choose" between alignment/one-shotbulletproof
even given 1),
2) I WOULD NEVER CHOOSE TO APPEAR GREEN OVER BULLETPROOF. I've been shot more times playing mafia than almost all of you have played games of mafia.
There's approximately a 0% chance I'm SK at this stage, just on basic logic and deduction.
Anyone pushing that line of thinking is highly suspicious or very stupid.
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On July 28 2013 23:38 VayneAuthority wrote: I don't feel good about just auto-lynching MZ since oats was actually trustworthy. I think wiggles is honestly a better lynch at this rate. With the Korynne flip it looks like they WERE actually trying to use my vote to accomplish killing marv. I don't see the scum motivation behind MZ switching his vote last second unless MZ and mocsta are the last 2 scum. ( since adam was afk and could not swing the vote, he changes his vote last sec)
That's where I'm at right now. If it's wiggles I dont know who his partner is but if MZ flips scum I can safely say mocsta (adam) is his partner.
I'm basically mulling between MZ and Wiggles.
MZ really seems to be my "blind spot" this game if you like. But he basically saved my ass, right?
Wiggles just looks terrible in every way.
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Right, so mafia didn't go all-in on me that would suggest.
On the other hand, if they could lynch me over s&b, obviously that would have been optimal for them. I'll have to check exactly how the voting went.
I feel my vote gravitating towards Wiggles in general. Everything he's done feels wrong.
And this pardoning shit... ugh. I need to think hard about it. It's so off.
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What are you on Meapak? I have a greencheck on me from a flipped cop. If you died and flipped town right now I wouldn't give a shit because I still wouldn't be getting lynched because it would be totally retarded.
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I won't get lynched because I have a greencheck. Hello?
Pretty fucking clearly not scum after logs with yamato + slOosh + the lynch yesterday.
It's extremely suspicious the fact that you're still pushing me.
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You could be miller, either of us could have been framed night 2, and with basic logic with my logs with flipped mafia and the lynch yesterday, it's practically impossible I'm mafia. You should be able to see that. Checks aren't always flawless especially when they're split over various players over various nights.
In fact if I'm godfather and you're town, then the checks on us would have returned SAME right, not different? So I don't understand what your angle is there.
You should stop martyring yourself because if you're town then lynching you achieves very little because your flip doesn't confirm anything to anyone. See what I'm saying?
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Lynch isn't tonight, is it?
MZ, just to put the check business to bed finally. If we take the assumption that you are town:
marv + MZ check different. So if MZ is green, then marv is coming up as red. FirmTofu + marv check same. Marv is coming up as green.
So somewhere there IS a breakdown. If I were godfather, then I'd check same to Tofu, but I'd check SAME to you as well.
Therefore the only possible conclusions is that either of us were framed at some point, or you're miller.
TLDR; checks are broken in some way.
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if you're actually mafia MZ I'm gonna be sad.
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On July 29 2013 08:29 marvellosity wrote: Lynch isn't tonight, is it?
MZ, just to put the check business to bed finally. If we take the assumption that you are town:
marv + MZ check different. So if MZ is green, then marv is coming up as red. FirmTofu + marv check same. Marv is coming up as green.
So somewhere there IS a breakdown. If I were godfather, then I'd check same to Tofu, but I'd check SAME to you as well.
Therefore the only possible conclusions is that either of us were framed at some point, or you're miller.
TLDR; checks are broken in some way.
Broken if MZ is town.
I've basically had this game-long hunch that MZ isn't mafia. Based on very little. And I seem to be sticking to it, not sure why. C'est la vie.
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On July 29 2013 11:38 Mocsta wrote:
I have played with Marv many times. and personally feel there is a consistency in his town play. whether a great town Marv in Mafia lix..or a struggling town Marv in personality2. His game play this game does not fall into any of those moulds. Regardless, there is no traction here today. Moving on.
Yeah, guess who was the last donkey to try to make this argument against me? Yeah, s&b. Fine company you're keeping.
Koshi is looking worse and worse for pushing me as SK. It's senseless. It's gone beyond the point where it's a reasonable tunnel, because it's not reasonable anymore. You don't just assume an SK will check green. I'm one of the least likely candidates for SK for that reason alone, so the push on me is totally retarded or mafia-oriented. Depends how you lot view Koshi I guess.
P.S. Hapa gets shot all the time as town too, like me he would obviously choose bulletproof (IF THE CHOICE EVEN EXISTED.) Just such stupid, stupid setup speculation Koshi is involving himself in. Awful.
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If you're not scum, then it's the totally retarded option. I did give the choice after all.
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And I just said why it was terrible play. I assume reading isn't your forte or something. Or basic logic. But whatevs.
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It's a really fucking good reason.
And you have zero good reason for me to actually be the SK.
Toddle along child.
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I ignore anyone being dumb on principle
1) Scum fingering someone as SK? Gosh, must be reliable! 2) ditto! 3) I haven't pretended anything. I've been pretty open about where I'm at. See earlier long post I made about how easy it is to appear to care for town when you don't care. Guess you missed that in your reading too 4) I HAVE A GREEN CHECK, this automatically makes me *significantly* less likely to be SK than anyone else, because to assume I'm SK assumes SK is given green-check, when I've never seen this as the SK's 'ability' when it wasn't part of a choice.
You are also sarcastically using the MZ miller example against me, when the primary reason your 1 and 2 have/had any relevance is that MZ and I checked opposite.
Anyone else is more like SK, such as you, for example. I can speculate too - SK shot Korynne for towncred, and who were the people who were pushing Korynne mafia the most? Koshi and kush! Now he's dead so the person shooting him can grub for towncred.... like you just did funnily enough with Korynne! Funny isn't it?
Probably should ignore you for grievous crimes against logic...
...or maybe we should be lynching you next, eh?
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not my fault you're using unfounded speculation on SK being given check-immunity when it's totally unprecedented. no, that's fine. you carry on dear.
if scum are worried about the SK and apparently the SK magically has green-check status (lol), then they could just shoot the SK at night if they so chose. Funny they don't though.
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So having missed lynching into the 'SK' yesterday, they decided not to shoot at the SK, who according to you doesn't have bulletproof immunity (still lol). Guess they're happy for the SK to keep on shooting mafia right?
And again, green check. I'll keep reiterating that you're using totally unfounded setup speculation against all rational evidence, because it's fun to do so and it's correct to do so.
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I assume you mean Wiggles? (who I'm not voting for yet)
Scum HAD to try to lynch into MZ/me based on the check business, because they needed *a* mislynch, ANY mislynch.
Unless you're seriously suggesting that strongandbig could be saved by just casually shunting suspicion on some random townie?
No, s&b was pretty fucked and they needed to play on something like a parity check to make something happen.
All your logic is bad.
And lol green check/unfounded speculation etc. trololololol
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We're lynching Wiggles, kush. Hoppity hop <3
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yeah I'm killing Wiggles. Bunch of crappy nonsense. Almost as bad as Mocsta/Koshi.
##Vote: Wiggleypuff
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Well. This is disappointing.
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Convince me tomorrow bish. Today I'm happy with le Wiggles.
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Want me to make a case on him even though he's already 'flipped'?
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Oh, I thought kush was SK. Hot damn.
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##Vote: Mocsta
He keeps trying to persuade me in PMs that I'm SK, and refuses to listen to reason. He can't be town.
It's at very best extremely extremely odd how he's trying to convince me that I'm SK. I'll post some logs later.
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MZ looks pretty atrocious now that kush has flipped actually.
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I was really hoping MZ wouldn't troll the town like that as mafia, but looks like I was probably wrong. Makes me a sad marv.
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On August 01 2013 01:27 Mocsta wrote:(6/25) hold up cowboy 1. do u think koshi masoning vivax is a town or scummy thing to do? I lean one way if koshi is noon, and one way if koshi is experienced.., need help here 2. are u calling mz Mafia with that vote? I actually like Marv as final scum... I have 3 kush posts telling the threwad to lynch Marv. and there's also a post where Marv details his PMS with yam, and refers to him as obvious townie etc.3. current count is 3 town, 1 Mafia, 1 SK if town mislynches, we go into kingmaker scenario I'm not saying mz is town, I'm asking why u would rather lynch him over Marv?
This is why you just can't be town.
I dare you to go through the thread and count how many times kush told us to lynch MZ. Go on, do it.
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Vayne is town, Mocsta is SK. Koshi is town. This game is solved as far as I'm concerned.
Mocsta is constantly and consistently pushing me as SK with no rational basis. It makes literally no sense unless he's the SK himself. I'll vote MZ with you though Vayne.
##Unvote ##Vote: MZ
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Vayne's being logical. Mocsta is being crazy and never responds to any of the logical arguments I presented in thread before or now, or to Vayne.
Easy peasy.
secondly, you yourself said that scum should have role cop left... who pardoned sloosh then? it's not ideal to assume motives are based on things you can not prove, I.e, bp vest
Says the guy who's pushing me as GODFATHER SERIAL KILLER? Are you fucking serious right now?
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Your play is more absymal because every post you make contains grievous crimes against logic.
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Please keep posting though, it'll make it easier to destroy you tomorrow when I actually need to.
It's like a wankbank.
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On August 01 2013 02:20 VayneAuthority wrote: what does he mean by can we trust the oats check? he flipped town parity cop @_@
On August 01 2013 02:19 marvellosity wrote: Your play is more absymal because every post you make contains grievous crimes against logic.
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Mocsta has turned on full bullshit mode, there's very little to say about it really.
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That's because there's enough evidence in the thread darling. No need to put anything together now as it'll be your turn to die tomorrow, and I can do it then.
Bet you're looking forward to it xoxo
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Where on earth does it say anything about x+1? Go read the role PMs. It just says that parity cop checks come in 2s and gives an example. Nowhere does it say you don't get a check if you forget to send in your check. You're literally making things up as you go along.
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I mean, you're seriously arguing the hosts told Oats that Firm and I were same, even though according to you he shouldn't be getting a check?
How can you even argue that? It's so absurd!
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If you want to convince me, MZ, you'll have to do better than getting my alignment wrong.
Try again.
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On August 01 2013 18:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 18:11 marvellosity wrote: If you want to convince me, MZ, you'll have to do better than getting my alignment wrong.
Try again. If you're not the SK you're about to lose. That's my argument.
I'm not, but you're presenting your final argument/defence as something that I know is wrong.
If you can't even give me something I can believe in, then it's pretty pointless, isn't it?
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Especially given how long you've been saying how god-damn unlikely it is I'm SK. Sense make not is not make it.
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Put it this way. There are currently 2 scenarios.
1) we lynch you 2) marv is SK and mocsta is scum
given I know 2) is incorrect, that leaves me with 1). That's *my* position, MZ.
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On August 01 2013 18:31 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 18:18 marvellosity wrote: Especially given how long you've been saying how god-damn unlikely it is I'm SK. Sense make not is not make it. You wanna give me some better options? I've yet to see you give one read this whole game. Saying I'm one of your reads is great but its gonna be nothing after I've flipped.
My read is that I think you're scum after kush flipped. And that Mocsta is SK. Think I've been reasonably clear about that one actually.
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Being afk in-thread isn't the same as totally afk. I don't know what happened with that slot. I've said in-thread why Mocsta's push on me is bullshit and that's why I think he's SK. It's in the thread dear.
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I didn't say that. Please read.
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On August 01 2013 18:43 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Marv that reasoning is hopessly bad. Mocsta could be anti town but there's no way he's sk. SK has had very good scum snipes. Do you really think adam could pull that off?
Yes, Adam is exceptionally under-rated.
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On August 01 2013 18:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 18:43 marvellosity wrote:On August 01 2013 18:43 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Marv that reasoning is hopessly bad. Mocsta could be anti town but there's no way he's sk. SK has had very good scum snipes. Do you really think adam could pull that off? Yes, Adam is exceptionally under-rated. lol ok He just afk'd out of this game. It feels like you're being willfully obtuse marv.
No, I'm actually reading what people in the thread are doing.
For it not to be Mocsta it has to be either VA or Koshi. Do you think *they* have the scumsnipe skill? No? Well then.
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End the day whenever, game's already lost as far as I can tell.
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as far as i can tell, MZ will probably flip mafia, then I'll get lynched the next day and the game will be over. And I'm away for Pride all weekend so I can't even put up a good fight. Sad times. These recent games have been raping my town w/l ratio :/
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I've seen no good reason for me to be SK. This is one of the issues of this whole game.
For me to be SK rests on a whole bunch of terrible setup speculation and/or a frame. It's just nonsense. Why would I even spend time if half the people in the thread can't grasp this basic fact?
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Like there's literally nothing to say because that's the incredibly basic starting point that we can't even reach. God almighty.
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This may or may not be relevant, but I told Mocsta during the night phase that I thought kush was SK, and he wound up dead.
Original Message From Mocsta: I like this pm from u. I really do. gotta go, speak post flip Show nested quote +Original Message From marvellosity: i'm not sure why people are expecting such things from me in this sort of game. I specifically didn't originally join because this game wasn't for me. Then I forgot that apparently when I agreed to replace in.
I talked about koshi/kush (more koshi) when i was arguing with koshi earlier.
I say kush because as you know kush LOVES to be right. And it was Koshi and kush who were specifically pushing korynne as mafia last cycle. So mentality wise, kush shooting korynne to 'prove' he's right would fit quite nicely.
still, not gonna worry about it too much for now
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What that guy said.
I do hope you're town Vayne, if you're non-town and the only one speaking sense I will be sad
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no please, vote for me. I'd enjoy it. Seriously.
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Any town voting their greencheck at what is lylo deserves to lose.
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For the sake of argument, can someone precis succinctly the points that are apparently leveled against me?
I only see a lot of speculation that I can't reasonably respond to.
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lol MK was town after all, my game-long hunch was correct. sorry dude.
Anyway, gl to the anti-towners, fight amongst yourselves for it
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On August 02 2013 01:55 marvellosity wrote: What that guy said.
I do hope you're town Vayne, if you're non-town and the only one speaking sense I will be sad
Christ.
It's always this way.
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Hey, I was masoned with gumshoe and Vivax as well
Most of my scumreads were indeed wrong. Pretty much only got MZ/Ace/s&b right ahead of time this game, so I did have the odd moment of being correct, sweetcheeks.
Must have missed where you were offering a better alternative to MZ and Wiggles too <3
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And if Mocsta is SK i had that right yesterday as well. But yeah, got kholly/wiggles/kush/vayne pretty wrong in particular.
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If you're genuinely the townie, I tried to protect you all game and you call me evils on it
Although the fact I think you're townie probably means you're SK :/
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You're SK aren't you
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On August 02 2013 19:03 Koshi wrote: Wait, you scumslipped didn't you? You never protected me in this thread.
No, I'm referring to when you were thinking Vivax and I were doing bad cop/good cop.
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no, it was Vivax. Don't make me go find it in your filter, because I'm right on that one
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Oh no you were right. rofl
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Reason I thought it was Vivax is that he asked me a few times if I thought you were suspicious and I didn't see it.
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So apart from being useless with most of my reads, what exactly should I have done to disprove this whole marv-SK thing?
I still don't get it.
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I wouldn't be careless enough to be *that* wrong so as to risk being lynched ^^
So you said you hoped VA and I weren't playing bad cop/good cop - pretty accurate in the end then? heh
I said it before and I wasn't kidding, the fact that Vivax wasn't screaming that I was mafia at the top of his lungs is as town a read he's ever given me :/
I know my play sucked balls this game but having this permanent SK thing hanging over my head from a whole bunch of people wasn't terribly helpful to being constructive.
And for example, day 2? 3? I asked you why you thought kholly was town - I genuinely wanted to think over my reads, and you basically told me to fuck off because I was scum. What am I supposed to do then? Go "er...ok"?
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I thought VA was too angry to be mafia :/
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yeah, I think post limit isn't so important at this stage.
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On August 03 2013 12:55 Ace wrote: GodVigi Ace owning souls! But scrubs like marv says he is bad at Town while said scrub lives to get endgamed!
Ace da #BasesGoD back at it again!
GG to SNB for having the balls to shoot. And GG to MZ for seeing the mockery of Town I was displaying. Trolls and "too bad to be scum" will never get lynched. Towns are dumb.
You must have a small penis. Sorry for you.
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Great write up, thanks Ver.
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On August 03 2013 20:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: lol this game. it was so funny though. ^^
Sorry for missing kush being obvscum and i probably should have figured out Koshi was the SK. I mainly didn´t because it was me & Koshi in our PM´s who started suspecting Korynne at the same time (i dunno if Koshi had her as a suspect earlier). Should have been obvious that he was the SK, but i somehow thought someone else could have figuredd the same stuff and let that slide. :/
If I'd been engaging my brain for long enough...
On July 29 2013 18:17 marvellosity wrote:
Koshi is looking worse and worse for pushing me as SK. It's senseless. It's gone beyond the point where it's a reasonable tunnel, because it's not reasonable anymore. You don't just assume an SK will check green. I'm one of the least likely candidates for SK for that reason alone, so the push on me is totally retarded or mafia-oriented. Depends how you lot view Koshi I guess.
On July 29 2013 19:03 marvellosity wrote:
-snip-
Anyone else is more like SK, such as you [Koshi], for example. I can speculate too - SK shot Korynne for towncred, and who were the people who were pushing Korynne mafia the most? Koshi and kush! Now he's dead so the person shooting him can grub for towncred.... like you just did funnily enough with Korynne! Funny isn't it?
Probably should ignore you for grievous crimes against logic...
...or maybe we should be lynching you next, eh?
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On August 03 2013 20:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you had just pushed any lynch at any point of the game i would probably believed you. I couldn´t believe you were town even when Oats revealed his check because you were just sitting in there talking in PM´s with people and to me it seemed like you didn´t even want to solve the game. Like those two quotes, i don´t even read that kinda stuff in thread close enough where someone says "maybe it´s like this but i dunno". I know it sounds harsh especially as the analysis is spot on but you don´t really didn´t sound town!marv!convincing to me at any point of the game. :/
No, that's perfectly understandable and quite correct. Can't blame anyone at all for not listening to me when I was right, since I was wrong most of the time anyway and wasn't very convincing about anything besides.
Can't say I'd have listened to myself much either
On August 03 2013 20:38 Vivax wrote: Marv lost his articulation skills when he got too used to explaining people how to install Adobe reader
Touché, sir. (Usually I was at work when Vivax and I were talking on irc)
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Should have masoned me babe x
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I thought your claim was fine really.
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On August 04 2013 03:35 VisceraEyes wrote: No I derped at the end dear - I lynched myself.
Granted, that's not a far cry from my standard play, but that doesn't make it any less derpy.
Oh, that
yeah. But it shouldn't have been that close :p
But that is probably because I have a hard-on for VE.
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Give it a rest, kush dear.
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