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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On June 20 2013 06:18 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 05:34 kitaman27 wrote:On June 20 2013 05:32 jaybrundage wrote:On June 20 2013 05:19 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 20 2013 05:16 jaybrundage wrote:On June 20 2013 04:10 kitaman27 wrote:
jay, could you point me to the reason you have a town read on Vivax in the meantime? I have trouble reading Vivax. I had a town read on him day 1 for defending me and helping make sure i wasn't the day 1 mislynch. But as his activity wavered i began to doubt my early read on him and that he could be scum. However there was people I was alot more sure were scum. Sent and then prplhz. It just seems hard to pin anything scummy on him. He has been having a fairly straight forward game with lower activity then I like. The biggest thing that i think can implicate him is that he was roleblocked when there was no shot. But the same thing happened to Sent and Sent turned out to not be scum. Ill go over Vivax again. But it just seems like most of the case against him. Is based on blue's and KP instead of actually content in his filter. Also the fact that WoS mentioned scum messing with blue roles or faking using them. Made me really suspicious about people that were "confirmed town" via blue roles. With all the no shots going on. Isn't it likely that scum just held a shot off one day or decided to use a blue role to get town cred for the late game. The scum have done a solid job so far blending in. I wouldnt put it past this scum team to lost KP to gain towncred late game. Thats why I think Vayne is a more likely candidate as well. we're talking a night 3 withheld KP here if you think im scum. Do you honestly believe thats likely GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE GAME AT THE TIME? Like it makes zero sense. Anyone town on me right now is probably just sick of the game to looking to get it over with. So you think it doesn't make sense to hold a KP when your scum team rolls doctor so you can get free town cred for late game. Lemme guess you don't think scum manipulated any blue rolls at all right. We should just take them at face value as infallible truths./sarcasm Is that truly what you believe I think it's a terrible idea to withhold kp when your scum team rolls doctor.I'd consider that the mafia team would double stack a player. Do you think JarJar is a likely double stack target? So wouldn't that mean that its a good idea for scum to do it. Because it would make you think there town? I don't think JJD was a likely double stack target but again thats not my angle.
I could provide fake red dt checks on my scum buddies for three days in a row, everyone is going to think I'm town, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.
What makes you think they would withhold over double stacking? In both scenarios, you are missing a kp, the medic can claim the missing kp, except in the double stacking scenario, a successful roleblock doesn't lead to a guaranteed scum lynch, you won't have to worry about the vet, and you can choose the best target for the stack.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
The case against Vivax:
Day One:
Vivax asks plenty of questions, but shares very few opinions. layabout directly asks Vivax about the WoS bandwagon and Vivax agrees to vote rayn without providing much of a reason. He puts no effort into pushing rayn.
Day Two:
Vivax votes Oats, without questioning Ace, but I'm fine with that. However, rather than scum hunting this cycle, he uses the opportunity to write a case defending Sent. A scum Vivax would know Oats is flipping town, Ace is getting lynched the next cycle, and there are going to be two cop checks coming up before the next lynch. Sent is almost certainly going to be one of the cop checks. He uses this opportunity to defend a player that is not going to get lynched for at least two days and will be checked in order to earn town cred. Vivax puts no effort into scum hunting this cycle.
Day Three:
Vivax votes Ace and mentions that Vayne was his scumread, but based on the N2 actions, he is town. The strange part about this? Vivax hadn't mentioned Vayne in 100+ hours. It is as if he is trying to renforce the idea that a town Vivax must think Vayne is town, so he is going to reverse a non-existant scum read. Vivax suddenly comes up with a scum read on prplhz after the roleblock, stating that it is pretty obvious that he is scum. If it is so obvious, why isn't there a case or even a mention prior to the night action which makes him guilty. He also shares suspicion of myself.
Day Four:
I shared my suspicion of Vivax the previous cycle and ended up likely getting targeted by a night hit based on fuba's claim. Night three Vivax checks the player he spent such a long time defending in Sent, rather than his top two scum reads in prpl and myself. He described prpl as "pretty obvious" scum, yet refused to use a cop check on him in a game with only two mafia players remaining. What town player uses a cop check on his town read, rather than his scum read? He argues that he was worried Sent would be mislynched. Sent is not going to get mislynched if he comes up with a red check on prpl. Furthermore, he gains town cred for his earlier defense of Sent after providing the town check. After calling prpl obvious scum the previous night, he puts rather little effort into lynching prpl. As the Sent mislynch starts to build steam, he switches to stutters. In fact, when layabout shares interest in lynching prpl, Vivax describes the prpl lynch as "not going anywhere". Vivax as a green check on Sent, he has an obvious scum read on prpl, yet he is putting very little effort into convincing the town to lynch prpl. Instead, he leaves the prpl mislynch open for the following cycle, preventing him from having to come up with an additional scum read.
Day Five:
Vivax votes prpl later on in the cycle, but puts little effort into convincing others. He comes up with a scum team based on the limits of his night actions, but doesn't do anything about it.
Day Six:
Vivax has put absolutely no effort into defending the Vayne lynch, a player which he would strong think to be town from his perspective. He comes up with a mafia suspect in stutters, but puts no effort into lynching him, with lylo only a cycle away. He is unable to come up with a second mafia suspect and doesn't even attempt to come up with a plausible scenario.
Night Two:
Several people seem to think that the most likely scenario is that JarJar was double stacked on night two. If mafia had control the of medic, where are they continuing to target a low profile player if they have an easy shot on fuba or WoS? Why not double stack fuba if they can still pull off the medic protect claim? A roleblocked Vivax is the most simple answer and those are usually the right ones.
Even if you don't take into account the blue actions, take a look at how little Vivax cares this game. Vivax is a high post count town player who has opinions about everyone, will spend time getting his preferred player lynched and is correct about his reads more often than not. Vivax this game hasn't went all out to push a single lynch, does not appear to be interested in solving the game, and chose a scummy night three cop check. He has been dodging lynch after lynch without contributing anything.
##Unvote
##Vote Vivax
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On June 20 2013 10:56 layabout wrote:
kita why did you vote for vayne earlier?
I was hoping he would call me names 
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On June 20 2013 11:20 layabout wrote:@kita Show nested quote +Several people seem to think that the most likely scenario is that JarJar was double stacked on night two. If mafia had control the of medic, where are they continuing to target a low profile player if they have an easy shot on fuba or WoS? Why not double stack fuba if they can still pull off the medic protect claim? A roleblocked Vivax is the most simple answer and those are usually the right ones. why is vivax being roleblocked more likely than WoS being saved?
Because I have a scum read on Vivax based on the post I have provided. WoS being saved doesn't make Vivax innocent anyways. He didn't have to be the one carrying out the kp, even though I think he did.
On June 20 2013 11:20 layabout wrote:
why are you placing so much emphasis on activity when vivax said pregame that he had finals and wouldn't be posting a lot and when activity has been poor across the board?
I've placing emphasis on motives, not activity. Show me where Vivax expresses a town motivation to get his preferred scum suspect lynched. I can understand that he is busy with finals, but with zero lynches pushed on day six, am I supposed to just assume he is town because he has an excuse for not posting?
On June 20 2013 11:20 layabout wrote:
Why would he need to put effort in as either alignment when everyone jumped on board?
Town players care about solving the game. They present possible scenarios and show an interest in moving things forward. Vivax shows up at the end of the day, posts a one liner about Jay and disappears.
On June 20 2013 11:20 layabout wrote:
Why have you written all of this when Vivax hasn't posted since the very start of the day? You are trying to draw a connection that doesn't exist.
Just a few hours early, you mentioned how Vivax needs to be posting because he has a green check on his only scum read. Am I supposed to wait until a few hours before the lynch when Vivax shows up to vote for Stutters with a one line explanation?
On June 20 2013 11:20 layabout wrote:
I don't like the smell of your case kita.
Are you saying that I'm scum? Are you saying Vivax is town?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Vivax returns to the thread without scum reads once again. He attack's Vayne's line of reasoning, but doesn't really indicate whether or not he thinks he is scum. :/
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On June 21 2013 00:02 layabout wrote:
Kita's case feels like he is trying manipulate the thread with shaky reasoning that looks neat and convincing if you skim over it.
If my argument uses shaky reasoning can you please provide counter examples?
Does Vivax push people to lynch rayn day one aside from a couple one liners?
Is it reasonable for him to not check he player he thinks is obviously scum?
Does Vivax go all out to push a prpl lynch on d4 after coming back with a green check on sent?
In the last two cycles has Vivax provided scum suspects outside of night action analysis?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On June 21 2013 01:12 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 00:08 kitaman27 wrote:On June 21 2013 00:02 layabout wrote:
Kita's case feels like he is trying manipulate the thread with shaky reasoning that looks neat and convincing if you skim over it. If my argument uses shaky reasoning can you please provide counter examples? 1Does Vivax push people to lynch rayn day one aside from a couple one liners? 2Is it reasonable for him to not check he player he thinks is obviously scum? 3Does Vivax go all out to push a prpl lynch on d4 after coming back with a green check on sent? 4In the last two cycles has Vivax provided scum suspects outside of night action analysis? 1 "aside from a couple of one-liners". So your saying he did push rayne but not that hard?
Correct. It wasn't clear that he wanted to lynch rayn because he had a strong scum read, rather than he didn't have much other choice.
The problem is that vayne was one of his strongest town reads the past three cycles and he never explains what he think happened with the N2 actions. I'd hardly say he is pushing vayne considering he never calls him scum, nor votes for him. It was more of a defense post.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On June 21 2013 02:20 Vivax wrote:
I am currently put in front of these scenarios:
- stutters is scum if I take all actions at face value.
Uhh, what happened to this one?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On June 21 2013 02:29 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 02:28 kitaman27 wrote:On June 21 2013 02:20 Vivax wrote:
I am currently put in front of these scenarios:
- stutters is scum if I take all actions at face value. Uhh, what happened to this one? I went to thinking he's town, and I decided to not take all actions at face value. Didn't eat that sandwich didn't you.
Will eating a sandwich make me feel better about the fact that you don't actually mention why Jay is scum? Everything is about night action analysis with you. You say that you think Jay rolled godfather, but never actually explain why. You never explain why he is a better lynch than vayne. You never explain why a vayne/Jay scum team makes sense.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I also don't follow the jump in logic from stutters being scum to town, considering you used process of elimination to come up with your scum team to begin with.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
And yes, I actually had a Turkey with Swiss. Thanks for the suggestion.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
(Sorry for the quadruple post)
Can you explain to me why you eliminated Vayne/Stutters as an option?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Vivax is so confident on his town stutters read that he is willing to lynch a player that is town 80% of the time based on his check. The main backbone of his town read on stutters is medic save on fuba, however there is absolutely no evidence that stutters protected fuba. A town medic could have protected him or a mafia medic could have protected random player X, saw that their hit on fuba didn't go through, and claim to have targeted him for a save. Therefore, the evidence really shouldn't be taken in consideration to determine stutter's alignment. However, he uses this reasoning, which provides no information, to decide that Jay must be the godfather.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On June 21 2013 04:30 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 04:22 kitaman27 wrote:
Vivax is so confident on his town stutters read that he is willing to lynch a player that is town 80% of the time based on his check. The main backbone of his town read on stutters is medic save on fuba, however there is absolutely no evidence that stutters protected fuba. A town medic could have protected him or a mafia medic could have protected random player X, saw that their hit on fuba didn't go through, and claim to have targeted him for a save. Therefore, the evidence really shouldn't be taken in consideration to determine stutter's alignment. However, he uses this reasoning, which provides no information, to decide that Jay must be the godfather. Where did you read that.
On June 21 2013 03:18 Vivax wrote:
I can't really eliminate stutters, that's correct, I decided I'd roll with town since his explanation for the Fuba save, mainly.
Am I misinterpreting this statement?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On June 17 2013 22:53 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm awake. Sorry I wasn't here yesterday, spent the day with my girlfriend's father.
Anyway I attempted to medic Fuba for two main reasons. 1) Kita was such an obvious save that I figured scum would avoid him after two night phases ago when it seems Kita was pretty likely to have been hit.
2) so after deciding that I wouldn't save Kita, it came down to layabout, Fuba or WoS by virtue of them being town enough that they aren't going to get lynched but not obvious enough of a save that scum would think it would go through. I based this off of their previous kills. Then I just gut picked Fuba because he's who I would shoot in that position as scum.
Is this the post that you are referencing that is so detailed and convincing that you would prefer to vote for your cop (80%) green check? I guess we would have to disagree on that one.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On June 18 2013 09:54 VayneAuthority wrote:
If people want to policy lynch me, go ahead! won't make me or you any better at this game.
[QUOTE]On June 20 2013 04:56 VayneAuthority wrote:
it's the truth, and at least I get the satisfaction of seeing the dumbass look on the rest of the town's face when I flip green./quote]
[QUOTE]On June 20 2013 04:56 VayneAuthority wrote:
This game is too easy yawn. Time to see if any other dumb townies fall for it I guess.[/quote]
[QUOTE]On June 20 2013 04:56 VayneAuthority wrote:
might as well consider it gamethrowing at this point[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On June 20 2013 05:12 VayneAuthority wrote:
I am going to seriously laugh if you are town, i would shit my pants lol[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On June 20 2013 09:00 VayneAuthority wrote:
really dude if you're town I never want to play with you again. Your logic is so trash tier I lose brain cells every time I read a post by you.[/QUOTE]
So Vayne, what is the point of these appeals to emotion if you are town? You must know that it is a common mafia tactic, so why would you consider emulating it as town?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
EBWOP:
On June 18 2013 09:54 VayneAuthority wrote:
If people want to policy lynch me, go ahead! won't make me or you any better at this game.
On June 20 2013 04:56 VayneAuthority wrote:
it's the truth, and at least I get the satisfaction of seeing the dumbass look on the rest of the town's face when I flip green.
On June 20 2013 04:56 VayneAuthority wrote:
This game is too easy yawn. Time to see if any other dumb townies fall for it I guess.
On June 20 2013 04:56 VayneAuthority wrote:
might as well consider it gamethrowing at this point
On June 20 2013 05:12 VayneAuthority wrote:
I am going to seriously laugh if you are town, i would shit my pants lol
On June 20 2013 09:00 VayneAuthority wrote:
really dude if you're town I never want to play with you again. Your logic is so trash tier I lose brain cells every time I read a post by you.
So Vayne, what is the point of these appeals to emotion if you are town? You must know that it is a common mafia tactic, so why would you consider emulating it as town?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On May 26 2013 06:12 VayneAuthority wrote:
Martyring is one of the biggest scumtraits of all time, cant tell if srs. People use it all the time to ATE to avoid being lynched like you have been all game.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On June 10 2013 08:20 kitaman27 wrote:
I'm also quite suspicious that Ace is a closet Heat fan.
IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW. ACE'S SCUM BUDDY IS A HEAT PLAYER!
Game solved.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
gg wp Vivax 
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EPT
