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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On June 04 2013 11:02 Ace wrote: read the OP? The powers get returned to the pool the next day. Why doesnt the cop just claim??? Why all the roles???? Why are you not answering my question | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On June 04 2013 11:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Hot damn. This is the first game where I've either played with everyone on the list or been in a game hosted by them. Except for Vayne. Never played with Vayne before OCD tiem ##Vote: VayneAuthority Or me...? | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
On June 04 2013 10:53 layabout wrote: I have an idea! Instead of that, we just lynch you Oats? @stutters basically, town doesn't really benefit from knowing who you think is town but scum do since it makes you easier to manipulate. If a bunch of players say that somebody is town based on weak reasoning/little information then people will strengthen their read due to other people agreeing with them. This is quite problematic if said person is scum and it can happen quite easily if everybody is swapping townreads. There are other reasons but i cba it's 3am. Fair enough, I disagree with some of it but I can understand your reasoning. I'd say that's only a problem if people are being timid (which is generally obvious) and that town reads are pervasive into the general thread sentiment anyway. I don't want people just posting their most to least scummy lists but if someone disagrees with a scumread I'd like to hear why someone else has a town read. | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
Oats, it's not difficult, when everyone claims, we have 100% accountability for all night actions. It is therefore very difficult for scum to use them for something anti-town. It also frustrates fake claims. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 28 2013 11:39 Ace wrote: Yes that's the thing - there are no counter claims. Scum can't CC in the setup because the roles won't be taken from the pool. Scum lose a powerful option to stopping the Town here. Every claim is taken at face value now because the Town does not care if it is Scum making it - the role still lives on. If roles can be lynched Scum at least have the option of counter claiming Cops or Doctors. The game can hit "follow the cop" scenario once Scum KP = 1. Without 5 or more Scum that isn't a far-fetched scenario. ETA: Game breaking scenarios: Once Scum KP hits 1 the Cop claims. Medic protects him. Roleblocker claims. A.) The Scum team can't hit the cop so they are left with looking for the doctor. Since the roles are random every night they have to get lucky and hope they get doctor themselves. There are no good power role hunting heuristics available since who gets the doctor role switches all the time. Scum clearly don't want to kill the roleblocker with only 1 KP as they lose the potential to stop a claimed Cop. They are at the mercy of the RNG heavily. Every day the Town tells the Doctor to claim. If the Doctor does not claim they know one of the people not claiming was Scum. This is the only option they have to deal with the Cop - pure RNG of getting the role. Otherwise the cop is unstoppable. B.) With the roleblocker claiming they can choose to RB anyone but the Cop. A roleblocked Cop = roleblocker is Scum. So that option is out of play for them. Scum would need to get roleblocker, hit the medic and shoot the cop most likely through random investigation with their RoleCop. Once again they are at the mercy of the RNG. No matter what path it takes the Town can ignore the RNG and have everyone claim as it is the most ProTown thing to do. The Scum team's options are limited. Without help from the RNG its a game of numbers. So what happens in scenario A when the doctor doesn't claim? If everyone plays innocent we have a dead cop and still hidden mafia. Same in B, if mafia RB'd the cop. I.E. we know there's a scum holding the role but we don't know who is holding it and is therefore scum, hence it doesn't break the game. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Could've sworm I played with you before | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On June 04 2013 11:04 Oatsmaster wrote: Why doesnt the cop just claim??? Why all the roles???? Why are you not answering my question If Night KP is stopped we'd want the medic claim yo nearly confirm the person as Town. Likewise with a roleblocker. The original plan was based on Scum with 1 KP but with it easier for them to maintain 2 it's a bit harder. Either way there is no downside to claiming the role and who we targeted in the night. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Ace whose scum? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On June 04 2013 11:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: So what happens in scenario A when the doctor doesn't claim? If everyone plays innocent we have a dead cop and still hidden mafia. Same in B, if mafia RB'd the cop. I.E. we know there's a scum holding the role but we don't know who is holding it and is therefore scum, hence it doesn't break the game. It wouldn't kill us outright but it would be an anti-town move not to do so. Especially if a hit is stopped. If no one claims we'll just take the actual claimers as more likely Town than not. But once again it would be really stupid of us not to claim. If Scum RB cop same thing - we just have a narrower pool of suspects to look at. We'll take that small win in a random bad scenario happening every time. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On June 04 2013 11:13 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok sounds good. Ace whose scum? Don't know yet | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On June 04 2013 11:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Could've sworm I played with you before Narp. Ok setup spec bores me. Wat we do till something happens? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On June 04 2013 11:16 Ace wrote: It wouldn't kill us outright but it would be an anti-town move not to do so. Especially if a hit is stopped. If no one claims we'll just take the actual claimers as more likely Town than not. But once again it would be really stupid of us not to claim. If Scum RB cop same thing - we just have a narrower pool of suspects to look at. We'll take that small win in a random bad scenario happening every time. But it wouldn't be gamebreaking like you said it would be. Hypothetically if I'm scum and me or my other scum (since 2 scum = 1 KP) roll the Doctor, we can shoot the Cop, and if we play as townily as possible we can claim either of the other roles later on and play along with town plan. Assuming we can survive the day we shoot the cop, we simply blend in afterwards and win by pure attrition. I agree that claiming does help town, but scum can still pull the situation to their advantage and win so it helps them a bit too. Guess it all comes down to the RNG after all. Greater probability of townies getting X role, so I guess it does benefit town after all. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On June 04 2013 11:29 Ace wrote: we could randomly start voting people off and see who goes apeshit It doesn't work if you TELL them that's what you're gonna do. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On June 04 2013 11:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: But it wouldn't be gamebreaking like you said it would be. Hypothetically if I'm scum and me or my other scum (since 2 scum = 1 KP) roll the Doctor, we can shoot the Cop, and if we play as townily as possible we can claim either of the other roles later on and play along with town plan. Assuming we can survive the day we shoot the cop, we simply blend in afterwards and win by pure attrition. I agree that claiming does help town, but scum can still pull the situation to their advantage and win so it helps them a bit too. Guess it all comes down to the RNG after all. Greater probability of townies getting X role, so I guess it does benefit town after all. Once Scum KP dropped to 1 = Cop can claim at night, roleblocker claims at night. If RB doesn't claim we know he is Scum. Match that up with previous innocent investigations = Scum have limited moves. They can't counterclaim anything either. So it becomes a game of numbers which the Town will win. IF the Scum roll the doctor it isn't as bad as you think. We'd still know where they are. That's why I said for the Scum to succeed it would take the RNG to make them lucky whereas the Town can safely ignore it. That's how it was game breaking. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On June 04 2013 11:00 JarJarDrinks wrote: sup y'all. I'll go ahead and agree w/ the claim all roles during the day plan. @vayne - do u have any response to these? Are you still planning on playing the same way you have in your previous games? Especially in regards to day 1? Guess you'll just have to find out. Meta can suck it. This isn't a normal setup anyway so I don't see why it matters. Of course I am gong to be playing way differently | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
Layabout its not even real pressure it seems pretty obvious to me that he was role playing. Havent you ever wanted to poke a drunk with a stick :D On June 04 2013 09:29 layabout wrote: If you say that you arent going to post, pressuring you for a contribution serves no purpose for a townie Also i plan to pressure who ever i want for any reason i want or for no reason at all. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
On June 04 2013 11:27 WaveofShadow wrote: Narp. Ok setup spec bores me. Wat we do till something happens? I haven't really read the scum qt from Les Mis, was JJD active in there despite his lack of posting in the thread? | ||
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EPT
