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@Wave:
Solstice doesn't look that great as far as sheeping Yamato's reads then just sitting on them. I may be giving him too little credit, as part of my assessment of him was that if he were scum, having never played it before he'd reveal it more obviously than here. I mean he does interject his own thoughts on issues, especially related to me as I recall. But that he can just say "what Yamato said," and then not come in and update his reads at all for an entire cycle is pretty unsettling.
I said slight town in my own list post, but maybe null is better. I've always been a bit of a sucker for pro-town players, but pro-town playstyle doesn't mean he isn't scum.
And as for Marv, I'll trust DP that he is town. Between what he and Marv have had to say about his recent lack of posting/concern, I would say it's reasonable that he is town. Which means that it's between Stutters/VA/JJD/Solstice for the scumteam.
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On May 26 2013 04:10 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 03:07 goodkarma wrote:On May 26 2013 00:13 Stutters695 wrote:
Oh and GK, every game (unless you're reading my newbies) I'm apologetic for having to afk. If anything you could say that I've actually followed through on promises to deliver later where in past games I haven't as a deviation from my town meta(not that I'd consider that bad at all).
I'm not sure what you're saying about hard lines on stances, you'd have to elaborate, and read the "get him boys" in context, Marv said spicy was antagonizing BH so I thought I'd jump in when nothing else was going on for laughs. Perhaps I should rephrase this: Did you actually conjure up so many excuses? You had some in prior games for sure, but they're rather prevalent this game. I mean I've seen a rather large number of remarks like this one this game, and it stood out to me as a curious tendancy. It does look like there's some of this in prior games, but they're like everywhere in this one.: On May 26 2013 01:36 Stutters695 wrote:
Well rainbow river got scrapped so we're drinking out by the pool instead. I'll be semi inactive but checking in until later. What did you want to talk about? I really don't care if you're off drinking somewhere. What's relevant is that when you're here you are actively scumhunting, and all I've really seen is you have an interest in lynching me... Would you mind laying out what you envision to be the scumteam? I mean clearly it's more than one guy. There's at least three scum, yet I seem to be the only guy you're concerned about... And somehow I'm "sure scum," in which case one would think you'd be devoting your scumhunting energies finding the remaining scum. Top one: wether or not I'm scum, my answer would be the same. I can give you pics though :p. As much fun as it would be to play mafia all the time real life comes first. My current scum team would be you,JJD and either Marv or Grush. I'm just not comfortable with his play right now and Grush breaking star senses seems bad. That's pending a re-read on the others but I don't see DP as scum, Vayne is very doubtful and the others I need to really re-read to piece this together, but those are my main targets. I'm starting to favor a JJD lynch over you, but I'll have all of that ready before the nk in case I die.
Could you explain why you see VA as being doubtful?
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Well, assuming that my town column is correct, by process of elimination:
VA/Solstice/JJD are scum
I'm still convinced that WoS and Grush are town, and as best I can tell DP and Marv are town (I'll take another look at their filters tomorrow)... So really that's the only remaining possibility...
I'll see if there's anything I may have missed tomorrow.
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@Wave:
I already explained how I've come to my current reads, in my filter... It included everyone on that list plus Stutters. In fact, it was in a post addressed directly to you.:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 26 2013 04:18 goodkarma wrote:
@Wave:
Solstice doesn't look that great as far as sheeping Yamato's reads then just sitting on them. I may be giving him too little credit, as part of my assessment of him was that if he were scum, having never played it before he'd reveal it more obviously than here. I mean he does interject his own thoughts on issues, especially related to me as I recall. But that he can just say "what Yamato said," and then not come in and update his reads at all for an entire cycle is pretty unsettling.
I said slight town in my own list post, but maybe null is better. I've always been a bit of a sucker for pro-town players, but pro-town playstyle doesn't mean he isn't scum.
And as for Marv, I'll trust DP that he is town. Between what he and Marv have had to say about his recent lack of posting/concern, I would say it's reasonable that he is town. Which means that it's between Stutters/VA/JJD/Solstice for the scumteam.
As for the Grush thing, I thought through how terrible his life would be if he removed his only towntell from his game to win this game as scum. I mean he could do this, but I don't think he would.
So yeah, it's not a 100% thing, but I'm keeping him in the town column.
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Also:
I was roleblocked last night. Hosts gave me a late PM...
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On May 28 2013 00:25 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 23:53 goodkarma wrote:@Wave:I already explained how I've come to my current reads, in my filter... It included everyone on that list plus Stutters. In fact, it was in a post addressed directly to you.: + Show Spoiler +On May 26 2013 04:18 goodkarma wrote:
@Wave:
Solstice doesn't look that great as far as sheeping Yamato's reads then just sitting on them. I may be giving him too little credit, as part of my assessment of him was that if he were scum, having never played it before he'd reveal it more obviously than here. I mean he does interject his own thoughts on issues, especially related to me as I recall. But that he can just say "what Yamato said," and then not come in and update his reads at all for an entire cycle is pretty unsettling.
I said slight town in my own list post, but maybe null is better. I've always been a bit of a sucker for pro-town players, but pro-town playstyle doesn't mean he isn't scum.
And as for Marv, I'll trust DP that he is town. Between what he and Marv have had to say about his recent lack of posting/concern, I would say it's reasonable that he is town. Which means that it's between Stutters/VA/JJD/Solstice for the scumteam. As for the Grush thing, I thought through how terrible his life would be if he removed his only towntell from his game to win this game as scum. I mean he could do this, but I don't think he would. So yeah, it's not a 100% thing, but I'm keeping him in the town column. I know, but I wanted something updated on solstice since it's been almost 48h since you posted that and *stuff* has happened. You realize how awful that RB claim is, right?
The RB claim is not awful because it's true. The fact that both me and Solstice were RB'ed more or less confirms in my mind there is most likely a mafia RB and the JK RB. Stutters most likely JK'ed me last night.
Further, either solstice or myself is SK or scum sent to deal KP and got blocked, mafia hit the SK last night, both mafia and SK hit the same target, or mafia or SK decided not to shoot. Those are all the possibilities. Any speculation that argues one of these to the exclusion of the others is WIFOM.
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I've defended myself about as much as I care to. If you were to look at the way Dandel must have been "bussing" me if I were scum, it just doesn't fit. He made such a haphazard case that was utterly bad. Like wouldn't he be more likely to coordinate / care about this type of action if we were both scum? It would be far more likely that if we were both scum he wouldn't site reasons for lynching me that don't even exist (a "scumslip" that never happened).
And yeah, if you'd assume I'd lie about a RB, maybe I could be SK. But what would be my motive for lying? And if I only lied once, which would have to be the case, where did the other RB from day 2 go???
Neither theory makes any sense. You pretty much have to assume I'm a compulsive liar to be SK, and Dandel's actions don't really make sense if we're both scum.
And this "He is self-aware of all these things. Therefore, he must be cleverly planning all of this out and tricking us..." kind of logic that seems to be used repeatedly by Marv doesn't really make sense to me. It's like all of this is out there in the open. The SK stuff is especially obvious. Like come on. How hard is it for you guys to figure out I'm not scum? You can talk yourself into some corner that I am some kind of super-clever scumster, or you can just accept that I really don't fit as scum. Maybe I wouldn't have to point this stuff out if you were a little more thorough with your assessment. It deeply bothers me that Marv is pushing this lynch.
As far as vote switching and whatnot scummy stuff you have to say about my filter, I've already discussed where I was coming from on all of that. If you feel that my stances were scummy whatever. I've said all I'm going to on that.
And regarding my early talk about SK theory, I did discuss that a little bit. It was revolving around speculation on the death of Rayne. But really, I didn't have anything more to bring up on that subject than I already did.
To find both SK and scum, my approach has been to use process of elimination to determine who's non-town in this game. I don't feel very good about Marv/Solstice right now. Both have done townie things, and rather non-townie things. I am more confident with JJD/Vayne being non-town right now. And if there's been some "wishy-washy" language here and there, it's because it hasn't been easy for me this game to spot out scum. As such, my assessments and theories have been changing quite a bit.
Whatever happens, we're in LYLO, so we'd best come to some kind of consensus on who to vote today.
I'm most confident with JJD/Vayne being scum.
Solstice I'm a bit more on the fence on. I actually felt some of the arguing he made that DP and Marv were both scum was townie, as I don't visualize a scum sticking his neck out like that. Yet... up until that point he seemed to blend in so darned well...
I'll sheep Wave, who I'm confident is town.:
##Vote: JJD
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On June 04 2013 18:16 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 13:22 Blazinghand wrote:On June 04 2013 13:15 DarthPunk wrote:On June 04 2013 13:07 Blazinghand wrote:
I did eventually try to tunnel GK a bit. Not that getting him mislynched before me would have helped much, but I did try. Part of the problem I think is I wanted to get a tunnel started on GK but I was having trouble getting people to engage with me on him. I had to call out people by name, and often more than once, to get them to respond to the case. Your GK push wasn't convincing enough. If your case had blown away the town and you spammed up the thread calling for a lynch you would have lived. Town won't switch off you if they have to think too hard. you need to make it really really easy for everyone to switch wagons. I suspect part of that had to do with the fact that he was town. If he was scum I'd be able to find more info on him. This is what the whole game boiled down to actually. The misread on you wasn't actually disastrous, but the whole GK issue made your push less convincing, and led me to not being sure enough to push JJD on the next day. This whole game was actually the "GK issue".
No. The whole game was multiple issues.:
1) Sputnik mislynch was pretty terrible. It was pretty much a random lynch. Honestly, the only random lynch you could make. At least everyone else contributed somewhat... The guy had a good chance of getting vigi'ed, and if not vigi'ed, then modkilled in a later day. He was pretty much a truly random lynch, as he was going to play pretty much not at all regardless of alignment. His lynch yielded pretty much no information to go off of in future days, meaning that it was a completely useless thing to do... Mislynching me would have been better, since at least then there would have been oodles of information for you to dig through after the flip. And sure, maybe you'd have to deal with him in later days and that would cost you the game, but doesn't lynching him early do that to an even worse degree? I mean you still are down one mislynch of the two allowed regardless of when you mislynch him, except you can use process of elimination to determine whether he's scum if he's still around later on. Wheras on day one there's so much uncertaintly still that you'd best be going with your strongest read, as you doubtless won't be
2) BH mislynch at least from my perspective wasn't terrible. This was a guy who came back last minute to spout out how I (as town) should really get lynched. I mean I know I'm town, so that didn't sit very well with me, since I thought he was just trying to buy himself one more day. Maybe it sat better with others. But I mislynched BH, and very well might do it again if he plays like he did this game. What also got me was this contentment with pushing my lynch while not pressuring me at all... Very un-BH like. Didn't make any sense to me... I pegged him as scum. Honestly, no matter what he says, his play was objectively scummy this game. Had he jumped off of this whole knowledge of the setup thing earlier, and tunneled people in a productive townie BH way he could easily have staved off his mislynch.
3) Iamp role-claim bad.
4) Lol that last day consolidation was OP. I absolutely loved how Marv, who most people thought was town, would say let's lynch this guy, and then most of town did the exact opposite thing. In a setup where you had to get everything right if you mislynched the first two days, JD certainly had to get removed at some point. I suppose some of you could argue the same thing about me. But I still feel my defense was pretty solid. But you guys were so biased at that point it really wouldn't have mattered what I said to you outside of maybe a blue-claim. Sure, I could have played a bit better, but the blame for my mislynch also fell squarely on town. If you can't consolidate in MYLO, you lose regardless. That's like town 101... This is all moot though, as LYLO was really day 2, since DP had the swing vote day 3 and he'd resolved to side with scum, making him effectively fifth scum so that even if town consolidated better scum could get their mislynch through anyway...
5) Along those lines, setup was definitely scum favored. You have two half masons who lack the normal benefit of knowing at least one confirmed town... and a half cop... Only real decent role town had was JK, who is kinda a half medic, since you're often RB'ing a guy you think is town... Then you give a four-man scumteam not one but two vigi shots, while giving town zero... And top it off with a survivor, which can effectively turn into a fifth scumteam member, and you're kinda left with a pretty scum-favored game. Two mislynches for the entire game is pretty harsh without giving town a better assortment of power roles to work with. Like at least give us a full cop, or a full mason, or something... T_T
I could expand on the multiple ways the scumreads on me were bad, but that wasn't what this game revolved around really... Game was kinda over after BH got mislynched. Which isn't the best game-balance wise imho. I mean maybe town didn't deserve to win, but really with the way things were set up it didn't feel like they had a good chance to win from the very start... In some ways, I would consider myself town MVP for at least recognizing the day one mislynch to be terrible, and for getting pretty close to nailing down the whole scumteam by the end of the game. My defense was pretty solid too, if anyone were to have actually stepped back and looked at it. And by anyone, I mean Marv...
Props to Wave for an amazing scumgame. You had me fooled. You've forced me to upgrade to GK 2.0  .
And thanks to the hosts for putting in the time to make this game possible. I may be a bit bitter about the setup, but it was still a pleasure to play, so thank you.
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EPT
