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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
The hour of the scum is past. It is OUR time now. Let us take what is rightfully ours. This world is full of liars and deceivers. We must root them out, flay the skin from their bodies, and show the whole world that no one dare trifle with us. We. Are. Legion. P.S. If any man dies with a clean sword, I will fuck your corpse. P.P.S: What the hells is this? On March 26 2013 08:22 sinani206 wrote: Hello everyone, looks like an action-packed first hour of play. I am posting in prplhz's one hour time limit to not get lynched, as dying day 1 is not fun. The conversation on this page with the 3 statements, 2 are true thing looks pretty useless, and maybe even scummy. Nothing is "maybe" scummy. It either is, or it isn't. Which is it? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 26 2013 09:13 Dandel Ion wrote: But you heavily imply you don't believe he's not read it. If that is the case, you shouldn't lean null, you should lean scum. cuz It's null to not read it. but It's scum to lie about it. So you think he's lying, but without the calling-scum part. Lying about something stupid doesn't make someone scum. This whole argument is dumb. I don't think Obvious is going to play without reading his role PM. Maybe he hadn't read it when he posted that first post, maybe it had. It doesn't matter one single iota. And, to be fair, his wording was ambiguous anyways. Technically he could have told 3 true things and not failed his statement. It's the whole "I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to too" thing. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Dandel said "If obvious read his PM, then came to the thread and said he didn't, then he's a liar therefore scum", and Grack asked what the scum motivation for doing that was. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 26 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: On top of that marv & Keir seem to be quite defensive about prplhz. Why not let the guy answer himself? There's nothing to "answer". S&B pushed a case on prplhz. I disagree with his conclusion, and I said so. No reason to keep it to myself when I believe someone is pushing a bad case. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? Because it doesn't matter a single bit how he reacts because the case was built on false information. Hell, if I was scum, I would love nothing more than for someone to make a case on me that I could so easily refute just by posting a few quotes from my previous games that wouldn't even be hard to find. The point of making "cases" isn't to convince the person they are scum. They are to convince everyone else that someone is scum. Plus, S&B was asking for opinions about his case. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right. I agree with you. I never said "yea, prplhz's first post makes him town. He never does that as scum." I just said that S&B's terrible reasoning didn't make prplhz scum, because it can be demonstrably shown that prplhz makes the same kinds of posts as town *AND* scum. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
What is there to explain? He randomly voted for someone for no reason, so I did too. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 26 2013 11:00 Palmar wrote: No you didn't, in fact this sentence cannot possibly be true, since the latter part "so I did too" implies that you voted based on my vote, and thus you have a reason, which contradicts your first sentence that claims there is no reason to either vote. Touche. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:20 Hapahauli wrote: This game is anything but right now. All I have from you is a) A couple of non-serious early-game votes b) A bunch of wishy-washy attitudes on several players Come on Hapa. Really? That goes against everything you know about scum marv. Hell, it directly contradicts the big case you pushed on him in GSL 3. Why you using backwards logic? :o | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:49 Hapahauli wrote: The GSL III case was incredibly situational. Err, what? How is a meta case 'situational'? That goes completely against the meaning of what meta is. And its not like I'm even saying that I think that marv is town. You are right, he has seemed kind of emotionally distanced from the game, at least up until this point. I just don't see how you can use those 2 points in one game to point to "this is how town marv plays", and then use the same 2 points in another game to say "we have scum marv this game". No sense does thou make. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 26 2013 14:08 ObviousOne wrote: + Show Spoiler + ==Some thoughts on today's action== + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right. Broken out, preserving the interaction above: On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? I thought about this sentence for a while. I probably thought about it for too long. It might even be nothing. I thought about what a Rayn might be implying here, assuming town: If we emphasize the "don't" and following parenthesis, the implication here is that Rayn is calling out Kei for shutting down a potentially useful avenue of information. Okay, I get that. I thought about what Rayn might be implying here, assuming mafia: If we emphasize the "given that you" portion, we get a scum claim. I don't know Rayn, and I can't reference the only other recent game since it's ongoing, so I want to say it's believe from a town mindset as an accusation against Kei derailing SNB's poorly constructed case. The alternative is a tired mind, ready for sleep, just posting for the sake of posting and literally claiming scum in the thread. So this interaction took me to Keirathi's filter where I found myself in a land of opinion-less posts and pseudo-random votes. This is not the town voice of Keirathi I remember from the Hydra game we played in together. It reminds me more of the safer and more timid Keirathi of 6 months ago, which was a safe way to play... the only town points in his favor IMO are that he derailed SNB's case for the right reason. (An addendum for later--) It's demonstrably fact that Keirathi has essentially defended prplhz by attacking SNB's case which says nothing now about them individually but should be remembered in the late stages of the game if it's still pertinent. Right now based on signal-to-noise ratio of Keirathi's filter, I'm calling him scum. What do you guys think? Oh god, I've created a monster. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 26 2013 14:14 Hapahauli wrote: Anyway Kei, let's address your contributions to the thread right now. You apparently agree with some part of my suspicions, yet are questioning the most active/spammy player here. What's your objective purpose in that? 1) I don't care how active/spammy you are. I want to figure out your intentions. You have a good head on your shoulders, and the ability to reason through reads well. If you can't see why I did a double take when you posted that, then either you're blind or being obstinate for some reason. And I don't think you are blind, so I'm trying to figure out what that reasoning is. 2)My objective purpose is to shut down cases that I think have terrible reasoning. Or, parts of cases, in this situation. Same reason I responded about S&B's case on prplhz. + Show Spoiler + As an aside, I will *NEVER*, in any game, condone a day 1 lynch on marv (and will actively attempt to stop one if a bandwagon starts) unless he gets 100% caught with his pants down, so to speak. And, he's too good to slip up that bad as scum anyways. He's too big of an asset to town to mislynch, and even in bad games he still has the ability to destroy scum teams. On March 26 2013 14:14 Hapahauli wrote: Secondly, you're quick to criticize my opinions, but haven't put forth any of yours. What are your thoughts on marv? Howabout InsertSmurfHere? Hell anyone. Not interested in marv. If he's town, he'll show it well enough. Smurf: His meta stuff was bullshit, as you've already said. And I know that Dandel has some kind of personal grudge against marv for shit that happened 2 months ago, so the rest of his points kind of don't mean alot, but I can see where they were coming from at least. Mostly 'meh' on that part, tbh. The most interesting thing about the whole interaction was how he called Dandel a "spammy, scummy fucker" and then in the next post said "Oh, I guess you're content to let him lurk?" Can't lurk and be spammy. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 26 2013 14:43 Hapahauli wrote: @ Kei I'm not advocating lynching marv on Day 1, and I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that to you in previous games. However that does not mean his behavior right now is undeserved of scrutiny and pressure. 'Cause he's done nothing, and he generally loves spamming on Day 1 as town. Like contrast his early-game in Hydra with his game in this one. It's pretty darn different. Meh, it's different from Hydra, sure. But, it's not so different from some of his other town games. LVIII, Dwarfs, Can't Believe, etc come to mind from games that I played in. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I wasn't particularly awed by Palmar's vote/case and Hapa's input, but his interactions afterward have been much worse IMO. He doesn't call out the bullshit vote. He panics, and questions it to figure out what he did wrong. I don't know any townie who reacts to a random vote on themselves by saying "OH GOD WHAT DID I DO?" Some get mad at the 'bad' play, some ignore it completely, and some vote the person back. But, even more than that: On March 26 2013 11:24 Grackaroni wrote: I really don't think you will. Give me something in the thread you want me to respond to and I will give you my opinion. (not much has stood out to me so far). By the way I'm just curious. Do you remember me from any other games? He's looking for a way out. He doesn't volunteer information, he wants to know what information Palmar wants, so that he can give the "right" answer, rather than a "real" answer. And finally: On March 26 2013 11:37 Grackaroni wrote: You are problably town. This is the most interest I've seen you take in scumhunting in a long time. (even though I haven't played recently I've tried to keep reading games.) I can see why that post may have looked scummy. I didn't make my message clear and it looked like I wasn't giving any opinion. I intended for it to be directed at Sinani because I believe him using that as a reason to push the lynch onto OO is much scummier than OO actually not reading his role PM. the only hesitation I have (and it's a small one) is that in Werewolves I walked into the pm chat and you (as scum) just said that I was scummy after one line and used pushing me as your way of contributing to the thread. (it's possible that you are looking for me to omgus in a fit of anger and dig my own grave) Despite this hesitation I do believe your posting is townie and I think you want to scumhunt but some past experiences with you do scare me. On March 26 2013 12:56 Grackaroni wrote: No..... I know what you dislike. I didn't say anything about what I think of Dandel Ion or ISH in that post. But I wasn't intending to because I haven't drawn any conclusions on them from it. All i am saying is that I dislike the case and for good reason. The bolded points feel like more "oh crap, I re-read my posts and realize I made some mistakes. Time for damage control". Like, he was already looking back at his posts to see how they LOOKED. His first reaction was to apologize for how they were perceived. THEN he explains himself better. It betrays his mindset of caring about his appearance. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
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On March 26 2013 15:17 cDgCorazon wrote: Acro you are blowing OO saying that he hasn't read his role pm way out of proportion. It was annoying at first, but now it's looking scummy. He just said he has actually read his role PM. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 26 2013 15:39 ObviousOne wrote: Are you picking up what I'm putting down? Honestly, no.  Your whole post is kind of ramble-y. No thoughts on my case? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:01 Acrofales wrote: What makes you say OO is not timid? He has not really done anything that stands out except to not read his role PM, when he had, probably, not read his role pm, which makes that completely non-indicative of alignment. Since then he has shared 2 rather vague and meaningless association cases... and a meandering post about Grack that left me with the feeling that he didn't actually have an opinion either way. Where are the reads? Where is the scumhunting? Where is the townie activity? His case against me wasn't an association case. I mean, the top part of the post was some association bullshit, but the rest of it was just some (badly done) meta comparison to my last game. :o | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 04:45 Nisani201 wrote: He never looked scum. The case he made was scumbait, it didn't catch anyone, he backpedaled, and now he's contributing to the thread. Why are you so sure it was a "scumbait" case? Smurf never said "okay, okay. I was faking this case" or anything of the sort. He admitted that he was wrong, but that's a pretty huge difference. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 04:53 Nisani201 wrote: Well it's possible that he believed the case when he wrote it. I don't think he did, but I can't explain his actions. Why do you not think that he believed it when he made it? That's the part I'm confused about. Literally everything his has said about it after-the-fact points to him believing it when he said it, then changing his mind after people pointed out how terrible it was and him doing a bit more research. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 05:09 prplhz wrote: @sinani206 Why haven't you been playing mafia for ages and what made you suddenly come back to this game? @Acrofales What you think about Palmar? What did Nisani201 say to make you think that he is scum? Just a line or two, I'm not a big fan of huge posts. And yes, I did read your filter so please bear with me if there was something I didn't understand and say it one more time  @InsertSmurfHere That can't be true unless you're like ... no, that can't be true. Why did you vote Grack? Why haven't you given a shit about this game so far? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 05:30 Nisani201 wrote: The initial case on Grack was bad, it was based off of his reactions to certain things, which weren't really scummy. He didn't do anything scummy after that. As I said earlier, the only reason people are voting for him is because of Palmar. Bullshit. I don't give a rats as that Palmar is pushing the case on Grack. What I do care about is Grack's tone and attitude towards this game, which haven't appeared townie at all. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 05:18 prplhz wrote: @Keirathi @strongandbig I voted Grackaroni for all the reasons presented by Palmar, Hapahauli and Keirathi. I liked them all. He's also the best lynch. I haven't been around much so far which is the explanation for why I didn't post a lot. Just got up to date on the thread. My Grackaroni vote was around page 16 and nothing has changed my mind since that. Err, what? You just voted Grack 2 hours ago, which was during page ~25 or so. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 08:34 Palmar wrote: a few more reads. Initially I was leaning slight scum on Keirathi but now I don't know what to make of it. He defended prplhz against s&b's case based on reasons I don't entirely agree with, seeing as I actually think prplhz is being much more useless than when he's playing lazy town. But the little fact that Keirathi then proceeded to call out prplhz makes me think his defense may not have been an absolute stance, but a fluid one. It's not a huge town-tell, but it's something. What? I made it perfectly clear when I was talking about prplhz that I didn't necessarily think that he was town. I just thought that S&B's point was dumb and not at all indicative of a scum prplhz, because town prplhz makes those same kinds of opening posts. On March 26 2013 10:44 Keirathi wrote: I agree with you. I never said "yea, prplhz's first post makes him town. He never does that as scum." I just said that S&B's terrible reasoning didn't make prplhz scum, because it can be demonstrably shown that prplhz makes the same kinds of posts as town *AND* scum. Why are you just picking and choosing quotes to base reads off of, Palmar? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 09:37 Palmar wrote: Because it's easier to pretend I'm reading the thread that way. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zJiM10U.gif) | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 09:48 Grackaroni wrote: This game has honestly gotten me pretty flustered but I have no intention giving up. I feel completely unconfident in my reads so now I'm just going to start anew. I'm going to spend the next 4-5 hours carefully reading and analyzing the thread from the beginning until I can get some scum reads I feel truly confident about. One thing that definitely needs correcting is my read on Palmar. I used to believe that Palmar was much lazier as scum and berated him pretty hard in a previous game for it. (and I was actually lucky and was correct that he was scum and he was being lazy) In reality Palmar is frequently lazy as town and has played several active scum games. My logic was flawed from the start when I thought that him being active in this game made him more likely to be town, it really doesn't. from an admittedly biased point of view right now, I think that Palmar has been fostering a bad town atmosphere and seems more focused. on getting people to sheep him than finding out whether his read is correct. TLDR: I want to correct my previously flawed reasoning. I will take a less neutral stance on him (and others) by the end of the night. I also don't like this reaction to my post. I literally made ONE post on him and all of a sudden I'm tunneling him all day? For somebody who is adamant that I am scum he either hasn't examined/analyzed my filter very closely or he is maliciously misconstruing my posts. But....your stance wasn't neutral? You gave a rather detailed explanation of why you thought Palmar was town. That is the opposite of neutral. Argg, why does everything you post feel so defensive and backpeddling-y :o | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 12:02 marvellosity wrote: I love you (i hope you're town). For now I've written Acro off as stupid, which usually means he's town. hurray I'm 10/16 through this game! Does it still count as stupid = town when he misrepresents points against people to make his case stronger? On March 27 2013 03:01 Acrofales wrote: What makes you say OO is not timid? He has not really done anything that stands out except to not read his role PM, when he had, probably, not read his role pm, which makes that completely non-indicative of alignment. Since then he has shared 2 rather vague and meaningless association cases... and a meandering post about Grack that left me with the feeling that he didn't actually have an opinion either way. Where are the reads? Where is the scumhunting? Where is the townie activity? Here are those 2 "association cases": On March 26 2013 14:08 ObviousOne wrote: + Show Spoiler + ==Some thoughts on today's action== + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right. Broken out, preserving the interaction above: On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? I thought about this sentence for a while. I probably thought about it for too long. It might even be nothing. I thought about what a Rayn might be implying here, assuming town: If we emphasize the "don't" and following parenthesis, the implication here is that Rayn is calling out Kei for shutting down a potentially useful avenue of information. Okay, I get that. I thought about what Rayn might be implying here, assuming mafia: If we emphasize the "given that you" portion, we get a scum claim. I don't know Rayn, and I can't reference the only other recent game since it's ongoing, so I want to say it's believe from a town mindset as an accusation against Kei derailing SNB's poorly constructed case. The alternative is a tired mind, ready for sleep, just posting for the sake of posting and literally claiming scum in the thread. So this interaction took me to Keirathi's filter where I found myself in a land of opinion-less posts and pseudo-random votes. This is not the town voice of Keirathi I remember from the Hydra game we played in together. It reminds me more of the safer and more timid Keirathi of 6 months ago, which was a safe way to play... the only town points in his favor IMO are that he derailed SNB's case for the right reason. (An addendum for later--) It's demonstrably fact that Keirathi has essentially defended prplhz by attacking SNB's case which says nothing now about them individually but should be remembered in the late stages of the game if it's still pertinent. Right now based on signal-to-noise ratio of Keirathi's filter, I'm calling him scum. What do you guys think? On March 26 2013 15:39 ObviousOne wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 15:15 Keirathi wrote: Acro/OO: Thoughts on Grack? Grack reads like he's ready to become an echo of thread sentiment. By admission this is a return to the game and he may be a bit rusty for that. I liked: On March 26 2013 11:17 Grackaroni wrote: For the record Hapa: When I say that I don't like Sinani using the fact that OO didn't read his role PM to say that he is scum. I mean that Sinani is using scummy logic. (he is misconstruing something that should not be alignment indicative and using it against OO to say that he is scum.) This is my first game in a long time and I am having some trouble finding where I need to focus. But I am giving reads and I will continue to do so. Lack of forthcoming reads about people he's asking questions about is kind of weird, him espousing as much is highlighted here: On March 26 2013 12:56 Grackaroni wrote: No..... I know what you dislike. I didn't say anything about what I think of Dandel Ion or ISH in that post. But I wasn't intending to because I haven't drawn any conclusions on them from it. All i am saying is that I dislike the case and for good reason. Calling out sinani for tunneling on my meaningless hello post: null We can find out a lot more about him when there are some concrete bits mid-day besides his interactions with sinani. Looking at it again, there's a kind of nugget in the middle there with the interaction between him and Palmar. (BTW I've never played with a D1-talkative Palmar before, this is kind of surreal.) He flat out gave Palmar a town read instead of proposing a better lynch target. Okay, that's weird. Scum points and town points, I want to see more. More red than green. Are you picking up what I'm putting down? Those aren't "association cases". MAYBE you could say that the biggest point he had against Grack was the association thing with Palmar, but that wasn't even close to the main point of his case against me. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 12:21 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Keir, since you're here, what do you think of this whole Marv/Acro thing going on? It's a dumb argument. But I agree with marv. You can't say "I disagree with your read because I think town OO is more carefree and engaging, based on Fruity and LX" when, as marv pointed out, OO wasn't 'engaging' at all on day 1 in Fruity. FWIW, I'm not interested in lynching OO, either. I'm leaning town on him for now. His play does feel very, very different than his play from Hydra. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 12:34 Hapahauli wrote: And someone needs to comment on mah prplzh case: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=36#720 Yes, prplhz is a scummy little slime, who hasn't cared about this game or doing anything. I would be happy to lynch him. I'm leaving my vote on Grack until he comes back with those promised reads though. I still think he's the best bet for scum right this minute. I hope he can come change my mind. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 12:41 Nisani201 wrote: I don't understand why we're still taking about this meta stuff. Just because OO’s play style is different in this game than another doesn't make him scum. In fact, it means absolutely nothing. I agree that prplhz has been flying under the radar and he could be scum. I want to hear other's thoughts on it though. ALKJSLKDJALK:SJD>LAJSKDEAJSLK"L:AJSNCL:KANKJSKJADNK:JASND:SNIO:DNA:KJSK>JSND:ASND:NAK:SJNA>LJKSNDK:ASNSDANSK:JDNAK:JFDNKASND:KAJS:DNASJKDNJK:ASND:ANSDASN:KDCNIQ:W:IUWDA:KJSDiuh`12 112 *Calming down* Fucking seriously? Show me one person who has said that OO's playstyle this game is different from his town games and makes him scum. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 12:50 Nisani201 wrote: Perhaps I've been not reading the thread. Why did we have a 1.5 page discussion about OO's meta? FTFY* Anyways, marv said that OO's meta points towards him being town. Acro said that OO's meta points to null. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Who do you want to lynch? | ||
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Keirathi
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On March 27 2013 13:07 Hapahauli wrote: And I'm looking at you Kei. How on earth can you tunnel prplzh for like ever, call him a "scummy slime", read this quote, then still keep your vote on Grack? Tunnel him forever? What the fuck? And quit trying to bully me into a vote. I'll switch my vote when I'm satisfied with Grack's contributions. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 13:13 ObviousOne wrote: Some feed back on my choice words against Rayn would be nice right now. People who are here? Any feedback would be appreciated. Your case has some merit. THe "grudgingly giving reasons" in particular. But other points still stand in rayn's favor too: he's been active, aggressive, not shy or timid. I'm content to let him live for today and see what he does later. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 14:25 InsertSmurfHere wrote: You/Grack are the worst offenders, overall. Grack's continued disappearance despite promising some sort of reads post is highly concerning. I think the dude is scum who knows he's caught. I am not voting for prp, but I want to talk to Hapa about that. Why is cora one of the worst offenders? I actually think it's pretty damn likely that he's town. He's....defiant, for lack of a better word. You said earlier that you thought he was scum because he was tunneling rayne even though most of the thread disagreed with him (how does that make someone scum, btw?). But, look at his attitude. He's constantly aggressive about it. He doesn't apologize, or back down from having a read that people disagree with. (Well, okay, he does back down eventually, but for what I would consider decent reasoning). He stands up to marv and calls him out on his bullshit wishy-washy stances. Pretty prototypical townie mindset, imo. So please, explain. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 14:47 InsertSmurfHere wrote: If you think low activity is alignment indicative out of prplhz, you're wrong. While it's true that he's done little this game, he isn't acting trollish or distant with town when he is posting, as he does normally when he's mafia. He posts little and rarely as both alignments. So why did you specifically refer to Nomination? Literally nothing about his play in Nomination is similar to his play in this game (unless you want to say that in his first post he gave some general advice). He's active/engaging in the thread. Calling people out and questioning motives, and giving some personal insight into a lot of different things. | ||
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Keirathi
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Keirathi
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On March 27 2013 15:11 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Hapa, you scum bro? Like, I just posted one of his fucking reads. Holy balls. Where? Cause I don't see one either. Talking about Acro? He doesn't give any reasoning. Hell, he doesn't even say he thinks Acro is scum. He asks if anyone thinks Acro is town. That's not a read, that's fishing for thread sentiment. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 27 2013 15:21 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Lol, if you just want to ignore what I've posted and say they aren't reads, go ahead. It's still more like town prplhz than scum prplhz if you manage to look at it beyond a biased perspective. I'm not sure what you think constitute "reads", but I've been looking at prplhz's filter trying to decipher. On March 27 2013 05:18 prplhz wrote: @Keirathi @strongandbig I voted Grackaroni for all the reasons presented by Palmar, Hapahauli and Keirathi. I liked them all. He's also the best lynch. I haven't been around much so far which is the explanation for why I didn't post a lot. Just got up to date on the thread. My Grackaroni vote was around page 16 and nothing has changed my mind since that. Maybe you can call this a read. I would disagree, it's just a sheep and he doesn't give any opinions about Grack of his own. But, whatevs, moving on. On March 27 2013 05:31 prplhz wrote: @strongandbig I didn't really follow the raynpelikoneet debacles because he's posting a lot and picking fights with everybody and he's grandmother and that's a plus for now. Okay, this is a real read. A town read, not a scum read, but I will grant you that its a read. On March 27 2013 11:19 prplhz wrote: Some people do that when they get frustrated. I think he's frustrated and that's why he's doing it. @Palmar Why is Acrofales town? On March 27 2013 11:29 prplhz wrote: If anybody else knows why Acrofales is town I'm also interested in their answers. About the bolded part, you could almost call that a read. Except, its not. It's just an observation. Doesn't say anything about what he thinks about Grack's alignment (and remember, he was already sheeping the vote onto Grack, and ostensibly thinks that Grack is scum). The parts about Acro: well, it does seem that he is implying that he doesn't think Acro is town. But why? What reasoning? A half-ass read at best. And...that's it. Now, lets look at Nomination that you're so fond of referencing: On February 06 2013 21:50 prplhz wrote: I'm on page 15 and scrolling down and seeing who is discussing I just want to say something really quick. Oatsmaster, Mocsta: Stop focusing on each other. Just by your activity neither of you are up for lynch right now so stop focusing on each other. Whatever useful you could be doing by arguing with each other you've done it by now so quit it and stop messing the thread up. It is bloating the thread and for hardly any reason. Take a deep breath and a step back and focus on something else, if you want better reads on each other then just reread your discussion, I'm sure there's something you missed. Alright going to read page 15 now. But seriously, quit it and do something else. Two activity based town reads, and some advice. On February 06 2013 22:43 prplhz wrote: No, I'm implying that if we were to discuss who to lynch right now it would be silly to consider the two most active people unless we have a pretty decent case and we don't. I'm not going to lynch Oatsmaster right now because he has a great deal of activity and it's going to be harder for him to keep up appearances as scum later on like that. I also think he has showed a good amount of interest in this game, by fervor as well as insight, so townie points for him. Expanding more on his townie read. On February 07 2013 22:32 prplhz wrote: Something rubs me the wrong way about jaybrundage and his case on Djodref. No one else really reacted strongly to Djodref's silly random vote because everybody knew what it was: some sort of scheme to draw out scum. Pretty rediculous but at least he doing something. jaybrundage also acknowledges this himself here but he still uses it as a reason to vote Djodref. This gives him a place to put his vote and even though he's since gradually recanted this (like here), he hasn't unvoted. It seems like he is trying to keep the Djodref door open while not pushing it and not wanting to actually push anything else. It doesn't seem like a townie thinking "fuck yea, i nailed this cracker and it's so obvious! now i just have to get everybody else to listen to me!", more like "cool, i can just put my vote on him and then chill". How do you guys feel about jaybrundage? A solid scum read, with logic and quotes to back it up. Hell, this one singular post has more thought and effort put into it than anything prplhz has posted thus far in this game. On February 07 2013 23:13 prplhz wrote: I agree with Oatsmaster that JieXian doesn't look scum so I don't want to vote for him. He looks like a guy who isn't around and his activity so far doesn't spell out scum to me. Another town read. Anyways, need I go on? There's a huge difference in the amount of actual scumhunting/analysis/opinions from prplhz in this game compared to Nomination. I don't see where your big town read is coming from at all. | ||
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On March 27 2013 15:43 InsertSmurfHere wrote: You guys are going from town games and saying it's somewhat different, when I'm going from a scum game and showing how it is ACTUALLY DIFFERENT. Seriously. One scum game does not a scum meta make. Just like one town game does not a town meta make. I'm only giving you quotes specifically from Nomination because YOU BROUGHT IT UP. I can go link other town prplhz quotes to back me up if you want. And, your point completely falls apart when you look at other scum prplhz games. Hell, look at http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925 and compare it with LIX. They don't look alike. | ||
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On March 27 2013 15:49 cDgCorazon wrote: So you never liked to follow the overwhelming consensus? Just like you shot Kei in Personality? :o I wasn't in personality. | ||
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On March 27 2013 15:51 InsertSmurfHere wrote: [/url]It looks the fucking same. Defending himself, stupid policy lynch idea, etc. Like, can you even read? FROM GSL: FROM LIX: Looks like a fucking scum meta to me! Are you fucking serious? For one: that "policy lynch" you talked about WAS BEFORE THE FUCKING GAME EVEN STARTED. So basically your town read on prplhz boils down to "defends himself when scum". Quit misusing meta. I'm done with this conversation. | ||
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On March 28 2013 02:18 Palmar wrote: I'm not on his team. Anyway, I am not going to be able to catch much up until in a few hours. Marv suggested smurf and nisani who are both null reads in my notes (although I'm feeling unusually uncertain about my reads this game, not sure what's going on). the remaining people who are leaning scum in this sheet btw are sinani, marv, prplhz, corazon and rayn (who I've changed my mind on) I'm feeling there's at most 2-3 scum in this list though, so at least 2-3 scum are evading my suspicions. Why are you not pushing any of those people then? :o | ||
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On March 28 2013 04:12 marvellosity wrote: Beeteedubs, Keirathi is probably mafia. What in the actual fuck? Why aren't you voting for me? Why haven't you engaged me to try to figure out my alignment? Why are you just randomly throwing my name out? I call bullshit. | ||
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On March 28 2013 04:32 Hapahauli wrote: Vote for Sinani You will be rewarded with townie points. Meh. I'm looking in his filter and I just don't see the grand scum agenda that you seem to. He's pretty firmly null to me. | ||
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On March 28 2013 04:34 marvellosity wrote: This post also supports my case. Keirathi makes another post attacking me, and yet has still said nothing at all about prplhz. "Another" post attacking you? I've made 2 posts since I got to the computer this morning. One about Palmar that was on the last page before I started reading the 6 pages of posts since I went to sleep last night. And now this one about you. So, please, expand. As far as prplhz, I just hadn't gotten around to writing up a post yet. I still contend that early game prplhz was everything that I know differentiates scum prplhz from town prplhz (lack of interest in the thread, little to no actual scumhunting/analysis, lack of care for town). Since he has come back, he is the completely opposite. I'm more than fine with his current play. ##Unvote | ||
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On March 28 2013 04:40 marvellosity wrote: By another post attacking me, I meant another post not related to prplhz. I don't believe that you "hadn't got around to it" when your first post today was hours ago now. 2 hours. Do you really want a play by play of what I was doing in those 2 hours? I took a shower, ate lunch, had a call from my mom, and spent about an hour catching up on the thread I missed while I was asleep. Seriously, how the fuck does that make me scum. Go on. | ||
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On March 28 2013 04:50 Oatsmaster wrote: EBWOP: ##Unvote ##Vote: Keirathi And why do YOU think I am scum. Sheeping marv is not a "reason". Give me a reason. | ||
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On March 28 2013 04:52 marvellosity wrote: Because your first priority as a townie should be finding out / expanding upon your read. I might even accept that the first time you came into the thread to have a jab at Palmar you didn't read the thread yet and went to have lunch or whatever. However your 2nd post, after you did all this, was having a jab at me. You didn't mention prplhz at all there, and you should have. You did respond to Hapa about sinani for some reason though. Fine, you have a fair point. I'm not sure who I want to lynch now. I intended to write up my post explaining why I was unvoting prplhz, and transition in the same post into who I DID want to lynch. | ||
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On March 28 2013 04:57 Oatsmaster wrote: Why the fixation for reasons? Basically cause you pushed prp for almost the whole of day 1, really hard, shutting down everyone who defended him then after like 3 posts from prp, and town sentiment shifting, you give up. What. Also the most important point, clearly, is that you have a 3 page filter. A 3 PAGE FILTER. I pushed prplhz for the whole of day 1? What the hell? I was on Grack for the first 24 hours. | ||
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On March 28 2013 04:59 ObviousOne wrote: Just woke up and caught up. If it's between Kei and Sinani I'll go with the former Keirathi laughed off my suspicions of him early game and I thought that was related to a conversation we had pre-game where he told me to make silly cases. His response was "I've created a monster" and to me it looked like he was simply laughing it off in an offhandedly way -- as if my suspicions were just completely unfounded and terribly reasoned -- which later convinced me to drop it when nobody really commented on it. As for Sinani I'm okay with lynching him based on participation level this game, the meta stuff doesn't fascinate me too terribly much in his case when I can barely remember he's even playing the game. Again, I want to lynch Keirathi over Sinani. I was laughing it off. Because your points WERE completely unfounded and terribly reasoned. Your "case" boiled down to "Keir isn't playing day 1 like he did in Hydra". I literally had a total of like 15 posts in day 1 in Hydra; half of those were spam, and half were getting into an argument with mocsta defending marv/myself. | ||
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On March 28 2013 05:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Is that the only thing you can say?? What about marv's 'concerns'? I already replied to marv. | ||
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On March 28 2013 05:08 Oatsmaster wrote: By saying nothing incriminating and being all nice, same with mine. Kinda, by objecting to a non-relevant part of my reasoning. Where is the post with your reads that you were promising? I wasn't objecting to the non-relevant part of your reasoning. I was objecting to the only part of your reasoning that was actually coherent. "What is with your obsession with reasons?" and "You have a 3 page filter." are not valid reasons at all, and not worth responding to. Anyways, I'm really not feeling the sinani push. My preferred lynch today would be Smurf. The way he was just so absolutely sure that prplhz was town when Hapa and I were both arguing the opposite really feels like he knows alignments already. If Smurf isn't happening, I am really unsure past that. I would consolidate to Nisani to secure a lynch, but i don't feel super strong about it either. He could be scum, but mostly he's just a lurker to me. Marv is being useless, Palmar has like 10 scumreads but isn't pushing any of them or doing anything. S&B: Where the hell is he in all this? I could get behind lynching him too. | ||
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On March 28 2013 05:20 Oatsmaster wrote: I was pretty sure prp was town so I dont see your point about smurf. Why did you focus on the facts that I was wrong about and not my main point? Its nitpicking and discredit's my point without addressing the main issue which is your really fucking quick unvote in line with thread sentiment. So: Keep my vote on prplhz when he stops doing everything I called him out for = scum. Unvote him when he stops doing everything I called him out for = scum. Gotcha. | ||
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Seriously. | ||
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On March 28 2013 05:23 Oatsmaster wrote: So you call out Prp, he changes. And you are happy. ??? Your initial push wanted to get him lynched, not wanted him to change his play. Why wouldnt he as scum change his play? DUDE YOU HAVE NO READS. AND YOU COMPLAINED ABOUT THAT WITH PRP. DUUUDE. Yes, I am happy that he started playing better. I don't want to mislynch townies. What are you even asking? Basically you're saying that I should have 100% confident reads, and never re-evaluate or change my mind no matter what happens later. Yea okay, bro. You play mafia like that if you want to. 1) I have had reads. Quit being bad. 2) More than that, prplhz at the time wasn't invested in town affairs. Can you say that about me? | ||
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On March 28 2013 05:30 Oatsmaster wrote: 1) What are those 'reads', you seem really uncertain about the upcoming lynch 2)Why are you challenging me to prove that you werent invested when that is a very subjective thing. This whole post feels off. I dont know. :/ Yes, it's subjective. I want your subjective opinion: do you think I have been emotionally uninvested in this game? It's a simple yes or no question. Hell, you played in Duel. Do you think my play this game matches my play from Duel? Basically I want to know exactly why you think I am scum. I can't argue with "this post feels off" and bullshit like that. | ||
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On March 28 2013 05:39 Oatsmaster wrote: You said yourself you got really depressed when you rolled scum in Duel and saw the explosion in posts and had very little time. I dont think its an accurate representation of your scum play and that you are bringing it up, its concerning/scummy. Also it seems like you are challenging me to go and say you are uninvested. Like 'HEY IM SO INVESTED, IM TOWN YOU IDIOT' which I dont feel is a townie response to the pressure. Because I do feel like I've been invested in this game. I'm not saying that 100% makes me town, but you were comparing how I'm playing to what I was accusing prplhz of earlier, and I don't think I am exhibiting a single one of the characteristics that I attributed to him early in the game. | ||
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If you think I am scum, or might be scum, or whatever: come here and have a conversation with me. Try to figure me out. Think for yourself for a change. Let's go. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:01 Palmar wrote: This is like the most uncertain I've been on day 1 in like ever. Keirathi I'll talk to you. Tell me who should be hanging instead of you. afaik your vote is on me. No, my vote is not on you and never has been. Smurf should be hanging. He was way, way, way too confident that prplhz was town based off of 6 total posts. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:03 Keirathi wrote: No, my vote is not on you and never has been. Smurf should be hanging. He was way, way, way too confident that prplhz was town based off of 6 total posts. EBWOP: Oh wait, It was on you for like an horu earlier in the day. I forgot about your random ass post about Grack That was like 36 hours ago though. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:05 Palmar wrote: Actually it has been, but my bad. smurf is certainly a possibility, I don't think we can lynch him today, but he has some pretty strange things about him. Can you give us a read on every player in case you die. long/short/whatever. 1) I don't plan on dying today. and 2) I will closer to the deadline. I want people in here discussing things with me, not to spend all of my time writing up a last post. | ||
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cDgCorazon and I are masons | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:09 Palmar wrote: are you confirmed town masons? Yes. | ||
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God, now I understand why marv got so pissed off in LVIII. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:13 Palmar wrote: So they're masons that are confirmed town to each other. Can you recruit into your mason circle? hell explain your role in detail now that it's out there anyway We are just 2 perma-masons. We can talk with each other, but we can't recruit or anything of the sort. | ||
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One word: Node. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:18 ObviousOne wrote: The exact specifics of the role were not really in the role description but yes, it looked like a mason circle thing that could grow. The OP specifically mentions an expanding Mason Circle of people of any alignment. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Nisani Keir, can you paraphrase what have you talked about in the mason circle? Just a short version. We haven't really talked about much up until this point. Strategy, how to play as masons, when we should claim, some specifics of our role, etc. | ||
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##Vote Nisani | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:31 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok marv. I rather be right once and wrong once than wrong twice because I thought that Palmar was scum when in fact he was town. (egoistic i know, trying to emulate marv) Hapa, mind explaining what is scummy about my play? KALJSKLDALSKDJASKLJDALKSJDKLAS Hypocritical much? When I asked you this same question, you flipped out on me :o | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:48 ObviousOne wrote: Not sure what your beef is. It's the right lynch for D1 based on what is possible right now. If you're unhappy about the candidates maybe you should have brought it up, oh, I donno, anytime before the final hours before the lynch. Nisani is the better choice between Sinani and Nisani right now, especially with Keirathi now definitely not getting lynched. That's my updated opinion. They are calling each other scum and any insight we might gain from one on the other is bunk. Bolded implies that you still want to lynch me. Discuss? | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:56 Hapahauli wrote: Mebe. I think I'd kill Yamato over him at this point tbh. Yea he's def still in my top lynch candidates too. I just feel like no one has really talked about S&B at all. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Based on what he will flip we find a lot of new information. Like about OO who does a weird sinani -> nisani thing with no apparent reason. New information, sure. That doesn't invalidate the old information though. | ||
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On March 28 2013 07:03 marvellosity wrote: When you've caught a single mafia in your life, you can make sarcastic comments at me. Until then, shut your pipehole. He does have a point. You've been exceedingly useless this game :o | ||
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On March 28 2013 07:27 marvellosity wrote: I'm also probably off until tomorrow. Not sure when I'm going to have time to work on the game properly because I have a chess thingy tomorrow evening. There's too many people I'm leaning town on at the moment, which is partly down to the fact that 2 of my 3 orange reads have flipped/claimed. Looking back through your filter, did you really use "Keir is saying ':o; a bunch" as evidence of me being scum? Like, I talk to you on IRC quite often. I always use stupid emoticons. How was that even relevant AT ALL? Would be like me calling you scum for saying 'dear'. | ||
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On March 28 2013 07:32 marvellosity wrote: (ok I'm still here temporarily) This isn't IRC, and at least I hadn't noticed/remembered you doing so like you have here in other games, and I thought it was odd, so I mentioned it. You know better than to make stupid ass arguments like that. What gives? | ||
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On March 28 2013 07:41 marvellosity wrote: Like I said, I mentioned it because I found it odd, and it was at most a small detail in my case against you, which didn't revolve around that at all. Anyway I really am off now It's not about "revolving" around it. It's that you included it at all. Hell, for the sake of argument, I went back and ctrl+f'd through my games for ':o'. I had a grand total of 1 instance in scum games (when I was arguing BL on the last day of GSL 3), and like 40'ish instances in my town games. And you, better than anyone, should know that I use emoticons in casual conversation. So, to me, that whole point was 100% an appeal to emotion. It had 0 basis in fact, and was only there to make you case look better. Do you not see why that is scummy as fuck? | ||
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You literally haven't mentioned me a single time this game. Explain. | ||
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On March 28 2013 14:47 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Nah. Need some time to make it up? Okey. | ||
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I dunno, you're questions are kind of broad. The two most important ones are the "Who was strongly opposed to a sinani lynch" (marv), and "Who was the major factor in getting the Nisani thing started?" (Acro). Acro looks pretty genuine in how his read of Nisani progressed. And he was around pushing it rather than just riding on the vote for the day. marv's counter to sinani wagon....meh. His point is certainly true. Sinani has <10 posts in all of his last 3 scum games over the last year and a half. Him defending sinani there is null, because he would have used the same defense regardless of his or sinani's alignments. | ||
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You were so willing to hop on my bandwagon because I laughed off your post about me earlier in the game. Why did you run off and leave the thread instead of engaging me and trying to actually figure out if I was scum or not? For reference: On March 28 2013 05:04 Keirathi wrote: I was laughing it off. Because your points WERE completely unfounded and terribly reasoned. Your "case" boiled down to "Keir isn't playing day 1 like he did in Hydra". I literally had a total of like 15 posts in day 1 in Hydra; half of those were spam, and half were getting into an argument with mocsta defending marv/myself. You just completely ignored me. That doesn't seem like someone who cares if the person they are voting for is town or not. | ||
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On March 28 2013 15:27 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Alright Keir, I want to talk to you about this prplhz thing. It seems like the only reason you think I'm scum is that I'm better at reading him than you. What gives? It's not that you're better at reading him than me. It's that he had literally 6 posts that are equally capable of coming from scum or town prplhz, yet you were 100% confident that he was town. | ||
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On March 28 2013 15:31 ObviousOne wrote: Run off and leave at what point? In the hours before the lynch? I'll flesh out my mindset on this while you clarify that point. Sorry, that was a misunderstanding. I wrote that, then I went backt o your filter just to make sure I hadn't actually missed you replying to me somehow in all the chaos. I was wrong, you didn't run off. I just forgot ot edit my sentence before I hit post. | ||
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But, that's not what I'm asking. When the wagon started rolling on me, you just sheeped your old bogus read because I didn't respond to it. But, I did give a response when you said thats why you were sheeping onto me. A response that you could have easily validated for yourself by looking back at Hydra (and maybe asking me which posts were mine and which were marv's, since I tended not to sign my posts like...ever...and marv forgot sometimes too). I refuted your entire reasoning for jumping on my wagon, but you didn't reconsider your vote nor even talk with me and tell me why I was wrong. | ||
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(Also your "policy lynch" thing is bullshit. Scum prplhz didn't propose a policy lynch in GSL 1. But again, meta isn't about specifics. Its about broad playstyle similarities/difference.) | ||
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On March 28 2013 15:53 ObviousOne wrote: That's a fair assessment of what I did, yes. I feel if it had been brought up hours before that I would have been more willing to talk about it, but can you fault me for thinking it was possible that you, as scum, might say anything to get out of a lynch? I was around but I was paying less attention than I should have been. It doesn't excuse it but I also jumped on Niasni for not giving a better alternative so at least I was consistent in that regard. Not sure there is a good answer to this question that doesn't involve me being terrible at arguing (IRL I don't argue often, I tend to let what is, be). (phone posting sorry it was slow) I don't want you to argue. I want you to THINK. Yes, as scum I would say anything to stop my lynch. But, as town I would obviously want to stop my lynch too. It's your fucking job if you're townie to figure out which one it is. Not to sit on the sidelines and say "Welp, I voted for you. Guess that means he's scum and I can just ignore him now." | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:08 InsertSmurfHere wrote: It should be "scum prplhz only cares about himself" because that's how he plays. Look, you can argue with me about whether or not those posts made him look like town or not, but the fact of the matter is, I know how to read prplhz I fucking read all of his posts and TOLD YOU GUYS WHAT HIS READS WERE. And then, I showed you that MAFIA PRPLHZ DOESN'T EVEN HAVE READS. And you fucking ignored me. That is just patently false. And you wonder why I question your 100% townread on prplhz. :o | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:10 InsertSmurfHere wrote: And yes, you justifying your scum read on me IS of paramount importance to my read on you, because you're the townier of the mason group and I'm not going to get anything out of Cora anyway. It's 2:15 am. I'm going to bed. If you're around tomorrow we can have that conversation, but if not I'll post my reads at the deadline. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:14 InsertSmurfHere wrote: No, it's not. Show me in either of GSL or LIX where mafia prplhz gives a read that isn't Chezinu, or OMGUS. And then show me how that read is at all similar to how he began this game. Prplhz has more scum games than those, | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:17 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Just fucking post it. We don't have to have a "conversation" for you to post things about me that aren't questioning my methods of reading people. I don't have anything written up, and I'm not spending time writing it up tonight. TL;DR: Bad meta case on Dandel, awkward backing out of it (saying you didn't ignore his town games, but still saying "Is dandel an idiot as town, too?"), doing nothing to push any read even though you ostensibly had a couple, etc. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:20 ObviousOne wrote: In the interests of participating in this conversation, I'm filtering prplhz. ISH purports that prplhz' scum meta suggests not reading the thread and making up bullshit cases when people think he is mafia. I'm not seeing that here. I am getting the same general feeling about his play that I had in Nomination before I knew he was town there. I'm not going to pretend I'm any good at meta but it I go by feeling and ISH's description then prp's filter supports a town read. Towards the end of what is there he's even trying to keep things cool in the thread, and presents an interesting tidbit about Sinani. We are talking about prplhz before this post: On March 27 2013 22:04 prplhz wrote: @Palmar If scum had an anonymous dayvig then why didn't they shoot you dead? Or just about anybody other than Grackaroni since he was causing quite the ruckus. Everything after that is what I expect from town prplhz and why he wasn't a lynch candidate later in the day. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:19 InsertSmurfHere wrote: I fail to see the importance of that comment Whatever, I'm going to bed too. This thread is hopeless. It is important. You can't say "SCUM PRPLHZ NEVER HAS ANY READS" because it demonstrably not true. Maybe scum prplhz didn't have reads in GSL or LIX, but "NEVER" and GSL+LIX are two completely different things. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:28 InsertSmurfHere wrote: I'VE NEVER SEEN Which is the relevant part of this argument in the first place. Where is the "IVE NEVER SEEN" in your argument? On March 28 2013 16:08 InsertSmurfHere wrote: It should be "scum prplhz only cares about himself" because that's how he plays. Look, you can argue with me about whether or not those posts made him look like town or not, but the fact of the matter is, I know how to read prplhz I fucking read all of his posts and TOLD YOU GUYS WHAT HIS READS WERE. And then, I showed you that MAFIA PRPLHZ DOESN'T EVEN HAVE READS. And you fucking ignored me. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:35 ObviousOne wrote: Okay, so above that he just asks a bunch of questions for the most part, one comment about Rayn being frustrated. I'll take a look at Nomination. Early D1 nomination [town] features a lot of paragraphs and looks like real interest in the thread (genuine interest). Trying to get Oats/Moc to stop throwing shit on eachother (peacekeeping). Overall he looks committed to hunting scum right off the bat even as he catches up with the thread. That game looks a lot tighter in terms of being town than this game, but it's not out of the question. I wouldn't give him a green stamp just for his early D1 contributions but D1 looks OK to me right now looking back at it as an entire day. It feels similar to me, but his pokes in this game (again, for the early portion of the day) are much more brief and he pokes quite a few people with not a lot of followup except about Acrofales. Is Acro a person of interest for any of you guys, as well? Ding ding ding. You hit the nail on the head. Why was Smurf 100% absolutely positively sure that prplhz was town last night, before all the rest of what prplhz posted after the one I quoted? I don't particularly want to talk about Acro right now. But feel free if you have some thoughts. | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:43 InsertSmurfHere wrote: That's a gross oversimplification of this situation. The fact that between the two of you, you have one solid scum read (me), and that your strongest claim to being town is being masoned with each other is just ridiculous. However, what I do know is that town realizing this takes time, and during that point in time, there are other things worth pursuing. I have more than one solid scum read. | ||
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And for that matter, you aren't even my STRONGEST scum read. In my top 3, though. | ||
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Easy to be right when you're scum, eh? | ||
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Yet so wrong about me and Cora <3 | ||
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On March 28 2013 16:48 ObviousOne wrote: I get the feeling I am on this list =[ Guess I better work on that. Before you go sleep which of the things I mentioned I wanted to talk about earlier will get us further towards the right track tonight in your opinion? I assume you mean your questions? The ones about the shit-fest and sinani still being a candidate tomorrow are irrelevant (well, maybe not totally irrelevant, but extremely hard to nail down) towards finding scum. If you want to do some analysis, I would spend time on the other two, and share some detailed thoughts about them. | ||
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On March 28 2013 20:07 marvellosity wrote: Nope, because I didn't have to include it in my case if I were 'fabricating' it, as it doesn't add anything in particular. But you WERE fabricating it. And you did include it. You're right, it doesn't add anything, though. Which in itself is the problem. I've never seen you use something so objectively NOT alignment indicative to try to strengthen a case. And even worse, you threw it in while knowing that I use silly emoticons all the time in casual conversation, yet refused to even check my filters from the database to see if I used them as scum/town. I mean, you know how to use the database, since you talked about looking through Grack and sinani's games. Do you just not know how to ctrl+f? I don't believe that. I believe you were just lazy and lazy marv != town marv. K, finishing reading what I missed while sleeping. | ||
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On March 29 2013 02:58 marvellosity wrote: You're blowing something completely irrelevant totally out of proportion (much like the :o, delicious irony). Like, that was my introduction to what I thought about you (ok, it was faulty). It had next to zero bearing on the case in general. "Next" to zero. So, it had some bearing. I don't think that you can honestly think that me using emoticons is in anyway scummy, and I don't think that town you puts points into cases that you don't truly believe in. But whatevs, I'll drop it. It does no good to argue with you about it. | ||
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On March 29 2013 03:22 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding Marv He feels better. I liked his reads and observations overall. Nothing seems forced, and he brought up a really good point about SnB (Chrono Trigger Mafia) that I hadn't thought of. I'm not convinced he's town namely because of his relative passivity. He seems to have an excuse for it though, so w/e. Keep an eye on him, but definitely not a lynch candidate for tomorrow. I was going to save this for deadline, but I'm starting to have some doubts now too, so talk about him with me now. My biggest problem with marv is that he ostensibly had Smurf in his top scum reads for the entirety of day 1 (well, since page 18?ish). But never did anything to push him. At all. He put much more effort into pushing Nisani, but went so far as saying that the lynch should be between Smurf and Nisani (which was before I was #1 guaranteed mafia out of nowhere). But still, he did nothing at all to push Smurf, and only focused on Nisani. | ||
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On March 28 2013 21:22 Palmar wrote: I'm almost always wrong on my initial day 1 read, which is why I always revise the read before lynchtime. As for rayn, I don't think he's town. I liked his initial contributions but I feel some of the things he said since have been pretty strange. I will elaborate later. Then again, I don't think he's our number 1 scum lynch for tomorrow. I still haven't decided where I want to take that. So, Palmar thinks rayn is scum, but doesn't want to lynch him. Instead he wants to lynch someone he hasn't even picked out yet? How does that make sense? | ||
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On March 29 2013 03:35 Hapahauli wrote: Well for the record, marv is null, and mayyyyybe slightly-town to me. The passivity really gets to me, but otherwise his play has been aiiiiight. No one really pushed Smurf yesterday. I mean its certainly points against marv, but that's not a compelling reason to lynch him. Thing with marv right now is that there are three people I want to see dead far before him (Yamato, SnB, Sinani), and I've been pleased by marv's contributions to each of their cases. And the best way to figure out if marv is scum or not is to see some of those guys flip. The bolded is irrelevant. We're not talking about everyone, we're talking about marv. He said multiple times that Smurf was one of his top scum read and never pushed to get him lynched, even in the slightest. Does that jive with what you know about how marv plays? | ||
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On March 29 2013 03:38 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Still don't like Keir/Cora, but whatever, Cora tunnels me all fucking day every fucking game, so I'll ignore them for the time being. It's lylo-type stuff anyway, with their claim and all. You still never explained why I was scum. From what I can gather, its because I disagreed with you about prplhz being 100% town, and then because I attacked you becuase you believed he was 100% town when you shouldn't have. You seem to be Mr. Meta this game. You've given meta reads on 4(?) different players, but refuse with me. Why is that? | ||
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Also, you said I was the townier of the two of us. So, if I'm scum, why did I name Cora as my mason partner, instead of a different teammate who didn't look so bad? I was the one getting lynched, not Cora. Or, even better, why didn't I claim a different role that didn't tie myself to a teammate at all? | ||
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On March 29 2013 04:08 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Why I found Keir scummy at the time. Attack me over something I'm right about, and have no other reason to call me mafia. But, that doesn't jive with everything you said about my in Hydra (assuming you are actually yamato, which you haven't directly said). On March 15 2013 14:39 Promato wrote: because aggression is something I do not associate with mafia Keirathi, so that's a point in their favor. -Yam On March 17 2013 14:32 Promato wrote: Keir is the reason I think this head is townish, so that's all I have to think about. Etc, etc. You seem to think I am extremely easy to read as town, but you haven't even attempted to this game. You're stuck on that one thing. Am I not being aggressive this game? Am I being passive/not caring about the game/not putting in effort/whatever other metrics you use for deciding if I'm scum or not? | ||
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On March 29 2013 04:15 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Now that I've had more time to interact with you while Hapa isn't arguing with me, you are townier, which is what I've said before. Aside from your sheeping of hapa in that instance, the only other reason I currently suspect you is because of how Corazon has been playing, but that is currently not worth going after. This isn't about NOW. You never mentioned me in all of day 1. But suddenly I was scum because I was "sheeping hapa". You're literally ignoring everything in this game about my play aside for 2 points: that I was "sheeping hapa" and that I claimed mason with Cora. | ||
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I was trying to have a conversation with yamato, not make him angry. | ||
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On March 29 2013 05:14 strongandbig wrote: I took a look at acro's filter, I don't have too strong of a read on him but I wouldn't be surprised if he's scum. (1) he threw his vote around at the start of the game but most of his filter just feels more "focused" than I would expect. One guy at a time, really pushing. This is what I would expect out of either a town-organizer type or a bad-townie who thought he caught a scum slip, but acro doesn't fit either of these models. This is also what I would expect out of a decent scummer. (2) the reasoning for voting nisani was scummy as fuck - "ignore your terrible meta arguments, he's being anti town!" There's nothing actual scum love more than Ace's patented "you're hurting town" lynch. (3) he keeps using the word "Scumspect", I want to cut a hole in that word's flesh and dildo it. (4) one of his three big bullet points on why ish is scum is that his reads have been wrong. again, super scummy logic. On the other hand, there is some stuff I like in his filter too. Specifically, i feel like his suspicions on marv made sense, as did the fact that he backed off them a little bit when marv got more involved, and the fact that he still hasn't backed all the way off, as he well shouldn't. Who do you want to lynch tomorrow? | ||
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strongandbig: Has literally done nothing. Completely overplayed the "Dandel is spamming" thing, and spent half of his filter talking about it. The biggest thing, though, is his scum reads. He's literally only had 2 the entire game (grack and Nisani), and both were 100% sheeps. He even came in and argued with Acro while I was asleep about why my points on Grack were valid. Then said "I could lynch either Grack or Nisani". Did nothing to push either one of them though, and when the day was winding down, what does he do? Sheep onto ME. Not try to get the person lynched that he's ostensibly been saying is scum. He's just flowing with the course of town sentiment. InsertSmurfHere: All of the reasons we've been talking about are valid. his meta reads are bullshit, over-confident in his read of prplhz, inexplicable sudden read on me, etc etc. There's just one little nagging thing that makes me question my read: why did he, as scum, come in attacking me+cora? If he's scum, he knows that we are (at least, very very very likely that we are) telling the truth. And thread sentiment is that we are probably town. So why is he attacking us? That feels more like townie paranoia than idiot scum. marvellosity: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18147671 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18147979 Be sure to read the nested quotes in those. On top of those, marv has been abnormally passive. He says its because he had a bad experience in Personality so he's trying to change his town game, but as someone else pointed out, he was playing like his normal townie self in Hydra. Why this game, and not that one? It just feels like most of his play this game has been all bark but no bite. He had 3 solid scum reads throughout the day (Smurf, Nisani, and me). Nisani was the only one he seemed reasonably invested in, and even then he wasn't really throwing his weight around in the thread. Just saying "hey, lets lynch Nisani" a bunch. He basically dropped the big case on me the buggered off. Never pushed Smurf in the slightest, as mentioned above. Maybe Hapa is right and he shouldn't be the lynch tomorrow, because his posting during this night phase has been more productive, but don't fucking let him off the hook. Nulls Palmar - Lots of unexplained reads, wishy washy stances, etc. Keep an eye on him. Sinani206: Points in his favor: He really doesn't post as scum. Marv had that much right. That's really it though. Not something I would rely on permanently. Scum points: The majority of his activity was after Hapa started calling him out. Only real opinion throughout the entire day was on Nisani, his direct counter-wagon. Everything else was either pointless bullshit posts. Feels survival minded. Probably town: Hapa Oats | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:01 strongandbig wrote: lol normally i dont like to omgus but what about the whole prplhz thing also what about the recent post on OO, did you write this up earlier and then not bother to update it? Yea, I wrote it earlier, specifically in regards to your day 1 play. I haven't looked at your stuff about OO yet. | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:18 ObviousOne wrote: Okay, I was mostly asking because he pretty much hard defended me as town D1 and he has had absolutely zero reason to do that in this game when I was clearly a person of interest. Do you think a scum Marv would do that, and why? Scum marv would definitely do that. Go read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16497364 Scum marv hard defended town kush, then VE came in with a red check on kush. I explained why I thought that kush was still probably town and just framed. Marv commented to me in irc that that analysis was one of the few ever on TL that actually made him think about how he plays scum. | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:34 ObviousOne wrote: That's pretty clever. Actually thinking about how that situation applies to me, it's a good bet to hedge that I'll survive to end-game if I don't get lynched D1. Look at my town record: 1st newbie game: lynched d1 as town 2nd newbie game: NK night 4 3rd newbie game: win at endgame 4th normal game: lynched d1 as town (marv was in on that one and later admitted he did it for the lulz) 6th normal game: win at endgame (d2 in this case) 7th normal game: died by 3p N4 A scum Marv would know if I'm town. It's a crazy and unpredictable move unless someone was aware of it and brought it up in the thread. Do you think he's using the same trick twice? It's irrelevant because I don't know if you are town or not. | ||
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I don't see what makes him the best second target for the day at all. | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:49 strongandbig wrote: Nah we should be lunching obviousone I disagree completely. | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:53 ObviousOne wrote: iPod posting so I'm not quoting my reads from a little while ago but we can talk about the points regarding Sinani if you wish. I read your reasons but....I dunno, they don't really feel like such black-and-white-SLAMDUNK-we-got-scum reasons. Why him over Smurf/marv/s&b? | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:59 Acrofales wrote: Firstly, it's not crazy and unpredictable. It happens all the time that a scummer decides to be the champion of the lynchbait. The knight in shining armor who proves his reads are good and he can be sheeped for the rest of the game because look how he knew ScrubX was town. Secondly, I am far from sure you're town, so if it's scum-Marv, he could just be defending his scumbuddy. In closing, Marv's whole OO is town, just look at <META>, is still one of the funkier plays this game and while I've backed off calling Marv sure scum over it, I don't see any conceivable way you can call it townie. I disagree. I think its very, very unlikely that OO and marv are scum together. Marv busses liability (no offense OO) teammates, not hard defends them. At least, he has in every single mafia game that he has played. Maybe he would decide to play scum differently this game, but I doubt it. And, I actually agree with Marv's OO is town read, for the most part. I am not willing to lynch into OO today, and probably wouldn't even tomorrow. He's playing 100% differently from his scum game, and much more similar to how I remember him as town in our newbie. | ||
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##Vote: InsertSmurfHere ##Vote: marvellosity + Show Spoiler [Mildly irrelevant] + Fun fact: Smurf has absolutely 0 mention of any opinion towards marv in his filter, aside from lumping in the null column in his list post for no reasoning. Also, his whole Dandel meta bullshit was a chainsaw defense of marv. | ||
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Are you not reading my posts? :o Like you even replied to my post where I asked for someone to walk me through sinani because I wasn't seeing it. Yes, there are some okay points. I just don't think it makes sinani the guaranteed scum that you seem to. And I already explained why I think Marv is scum. Maybe you should do the same because you seem awfully non-committal in your read towards him. You've done everything possible to avoid talking about him. | ||
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On March 29 2013 11:49 marvellosity wrote: No. I'm willing to get lynched this game just so I'm not always expected to play town-leader when I don't want to. I've pretty much been as forthcoming about everything as I could possibly be during the last phase, so if town is expecting some "town leadership" from me then I'm already dead. What the fuck. That's not even the fucking argument. I'm not calling you scum because you're not in here bossing everyone around, being all town-leader-y. I'm calling you scum because you haven't cared enough to do ANYTHING. You have weak scum reads and almost 0 pressure on them at all. You don't have to be a town leader to have an opinion and push it. | ||
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On March 29 2013 12:02 marvellosity wrote: I pushed Nisani and singlehandedly made a good enough case on you that people wanted to lynch you. I've made my opinion clear on most players in the game, and the reasons behind it. Saying I haven't done anything is just incorrect and rude. Oh sorry. You are right, you did type some letters into words and hit the post button. But, lets take a look: + Show Spoiler [Push on Nisani] + On March 27 2013 22:06 marvellosity wrote: My feelings towards the shot align with Acro's, I don't get it from any perspective, except 3p which we don't have :x Although my filtering last night got interrupted by somewhat too much wine, I also agree with Acro/sinani on Nisani. I agree with what Acro said above about the 'timeliness' of his prplhz read. The kicker for me is this "scumbait" thing about Smurf/Dandel. I've read that case a few times and it simply doesn't come across like that at all. It doesn't seem like a natural mindset for a townie to take. It implies that Nisani actually already *knows* Smurf is town, and therefore his 'atrocious' case must be scumbait, rather than the more natural townie suspicion of maliciousness or simply bad play. Especially given at the time we had s&b's prplhz case, which looked much more scumbait-y. ##Vote: Nisani101 On March 28 2013 00:18 marvellosity wrote: So how about that Nisani meta, prplhz? Nisani looks worse after the Grack flip because he was soft-defending Grack from the start of the game. He called the case bad and said Grack hadn't done anything scummy. This ties in to the inherent knowledge of alignments argument that I made regarding his "scumbait" line on Smurf. On March 28 2013 01:42 marvellosity wrote: I still don't want to lynch OO today. As this is a majority lynch we need to start consolidating on targets. The lynch should be between Smurf and Nisani, I think. On March 28 2013 04:09 marvellosity wrote: The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia. Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself. On March 28 2013 06:23 marvellosity wrote: I'm going to go back to Nisani. He hasn't had a legitimate read all game, he went on to Acro and straight off again, he sheeped on to prplhz with no explanation and off again, and then on to Kei for no apparent reason as well. Plus the scumbait thing still gets to me. ##Vote: Nisani201 That's really it, until the last hour when *were* fighting to lynch Nisano over sinani. There were a few more mentions like "prplhz, what do you think of nisani" but that's just a question and there was no follow up. That's neither pushing your read not even having a read. That's just asking for the sake of asking. There's no meandering. There's no trying to figure Nisani out. It's just a few lines of "Yea, Nisani is scum" and then sitting on the sidelines for the day. + Show Spoiler [push of me] + On March 28 2013 04:12 marvellosity wrote: Beeteedubs, Keirathi is probably mafia. On March 28 2013 04:33 marvellosity wrote: Keirathi I've been reasonably suspicious of his play all game. Quite uninvolved. Also a lot of posts containing :o. I know that's a pretty silly thing but I find it quite off. I also found his case on Grackeroni over-justified, and over-explained. Palmar and Hapa had already said all there was to say about Grackeroni, and yet Keirathi feels the need to make a full-fledged case on him. These are general reasons I find Keirathi suspicious. I didn't feel like these were enough to really push him, but I'm bringing it up now because of the prplhz stuff. I would note that Hapa basically originated the push on prplhz, and then Keirathi came into the thread to egg him on and provide 'meta' support. Now, at the time I didn't particularly feel the push on prplhz was unreasonable. I was pretty null on prplhz so I could understand the push, to an extent. Anyway, prplhz has been in the thread today making quite active conversation, talking about reads, being open and honest. I had in my notes on Hapa and Keirathi to make sure I checked how they responded to this. Hapa responded to it in the way I'd expect a townie to respond to it, like so: Here's how Keirathi responded to it: He comes in to take a pointless jab at Palmar, and do nothing else of note. No comment on prplhz. For someone who prides themselves at being good at meta, I find it quite hard to believe that a town-Keirathi wouldn't have had things to say about prplhz's contributions, which to me mark him as a pretty bad lynch today. The interesting thing is that if Keirathi really felt strongly about prplhz, he could have started the push on him earlier. Keirathi actually argues quite a lot with Nisani, and finds him either wrong or scummy over many posts, and yet in the end chooses to pursue prplhz under Hapa's protection. If you read page 2 of Kei's filter, in the leadup to Kei pushing prplhz, he makes one jab at prplhz and yet repeated jabs at Nisani. Basically Keirathi has rode other people's cases, Grack and prplhz, overexplaining his Grack case, and railing on Smurf about prplhz's meta, but has since failed to come back and reevaluate his read; or at least he did come back to have a jab at Palmar and do nothing else of importance. I would lynch Keirathi today if I could get a majority behind it. On March 28 2013 04:40 marvellosity wrote: By another post attacking me, I meant another post not related to prplhz. I don't believe that you "hadn't got around to it" when your first post today was hours ago now. On March 28 2013 04:52 marvellosity wrote: Because your first priority as a townie should be finding out / expanding upon your read. I might even accept that the first time you came into the thread to have a jab at Palmar you didn't read the thread yet and went to have lunch or whatever. However your 2nd post, after you did all this, was having a jab at me. You didn't mention prplhz at all there, and you should have. You did respond to Hapa about sinani for some reason though. On March 28 2013 05:12 marvellosity wrote: Because I think Kei is a better lynch, dopeydrawers On March 28 2013 06:12 marvellosity wrote: Interesting. Ok ##Unvote Corazon, you need to read the thread. Okay, so you actually made a reasonable case. But in the 2 hours between when you called me mafia and when I claimed, where were you trying to figure out if I was scum or not? You just say "yep, Keir is mafia" and that's that. You're not even discussing it with other people, trying to get them onto my wagon. You just make the case and then done. And it almost worked too, because town just sheeps you like always. Oh, and unrelated to the above, but still interesting: On March 28 2013 22:52 marvellosity wrote: Fair dinkum, I would say that I'm pretty glad I did what I did with the Kei case in hindsight; in my opinion there's a lot of information to be gained from the Kei push. Certainly I think the town is in a better position for having that wagon come and go late on Day 1. Obviously I'm not claiming this absolves me or anything, but the very analysis you just made on voting was made possible by my Keir push. You've told me multiple times that you think that pema-mason pairs are one of the strongest town roles. You think you did GOOD by outing 2 blue roles to the thread? | ||
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On March 29 2013 12:34 marvellosity wrote: I have no idea whatsoever why you're being this aggressive with me, Kei. Because I'm a meany pants. | ||
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On March 29 2013 12:21 marvellosity wrote: Maybe. prplhz should explain his vote, though. It's enough for me to fully rescind my townread on him, especially given he's basically defended s&b and Smurf. The problem with a prplhz-mafia idea is that it would mean a Smurf-mafia hard-defended him on meta, which seems really unlikely. I'm not even particularly sure Smurf is mafia anymore. Why do you not think Smurf is mafia anymore? Like I mentioned earlier, you had him town as you top (or one of your top) scumreads like 3-4 times during the first day, but just in passing comments. No actual comments on him until the middle of night 1. | ||
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On March 29 2013 12:49 marvellosity wrote: Yes, of course I will try to find the two I think should be lynched. I really need to look again at Smurf and maybe talk to him at some point. Probably sinani and s&b are my top 2 right now. Sinani? You spent the last hour of the day championing his counterwagon because you thought he was likely to be town based on meta? What changed? Looking in your filter, all I can find is "sinani looks worse by default". | ||
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On March 29 2013 12:51 marvellosity wrote: Palmar flipped town and for some reason didn't think Smurf was mafia. And he seems genuinely angry at stages. The sticking point is how he pushed Nisani, and also the fact that yamato is pretty known for *not* going after lurkers, in fact quite the opposite. Interesting point. Do you think I've genuinely been angry at any point during this game? | ||
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On March 30 2013 01:29 marvellosity wrote: You claimed you were hit and saved, so if an actual medic saved you then s&b dies immediately with a counterclaim What's more important than that though, imo, is that if S&B wasn't actually medic and was in-fact scum, he wouldn't have known to ask Hapa "Did you take a hit?" Because, you know, that's not a usual mechanic. | ||
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Wat. He didn't break any rule :o | ||
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Not worth arguing about though. | ||
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On March 30 2013 05:45 prplhz wrote: I don't want to lynch marvellosity anyway. Why not? What makes you think he's town? Who DO you want to lynch? | ||
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On March 30 2013 06:59 Hapahauli wrote: Will you be on your iPad for the next 30 hours? I find that doubtful. He said he was out of town for Easter weekend, so on iPad until Sunday. | ||
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On March 30 2013 08:14 marvellosity wrote: nothing, it's dull and i've already deleted 3 posts about it but it's just not interesting enough for me to type about. Sorry. It is interesting, because you did the same thing to me. But for some reason you are holding Smurf to a different standard. | ||
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On March 30 2013 08:19 marvellosity wrote: ok? you have your vote on me, so let's not worry about it too much Zzzzzz. I don't want to lynch you if you are town. Quit giving up. I'm not in here yelling at everyone to vote you, and I'm trying to back off so you don't get "on tilt" or wahtever. But you're not giving us anything. | ||
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On March 30 2013 08:25 marvellosity wrote: What's there to say about his stupid claim at the start of the day? It's blatantly obvious to anyone who's even vaguely reading the thread what the options were, and I believe I've shown myself to be attentive to the thread multiple times (for example, easily pulling up Palmar's read on you, or Smurf's blue snipe) There's very little to say about it other than that either he's mafia, and he won't claim, or he'll claim and be counterclaimed, or he's not mafia, in which case at some stage he'll claim and not be counterclaimed. This doesn't actually require anyone bringing anything up. You're kind of missing the point. I didn't "bring it up" either. I'm not accusing you of that. But I don't see how you could see the interaction and then later still think of S&B was one of your top scum reads ("Probably sinani and s&b are my top 2 right now"). Like S&B said, that points to you not really thinking about the game critically. Which is also what you did with me on day 1: call me scum for 1 thing, to the exclusion of everything else I had done in the game. And, surprise! Your "suspicion" only stopped with the claim. Which makes some of your other stances really weird. You call Smurf scum for the entirety of day 1 and night 1. Then suddenly "He seems genuinely mad at points" so you don't want to vote him. Why this in-depth analysis for one person, but not for S&B? Not for me? It doesn't make sense to me :o | ||
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On March 30 2013 08:38 marvellosity wrote: Because until he's claimed there's no reason to think he's town. I can't be arsed to log on to OMGUS right now but there's a game where I lynched palm (mafia) day 1, and had Enforced as my top scumread day 2 with coag just behind. It turned out kush had been protected by Enforced, and in my head I thought that Enforced was the only person in the game that would have protected kush instead of me (or some other dude I forget). Nonetheless I would have killed Enforced until he claimed, which he did. You're also just bullshitting with your "to the exclusion of everything else you'd done this game". You'd done nothing, like in every game you play you're a useless shit, and had made a case in 5th place on Grack and a shit meta case on prplhz. That's literally all you did. We done here? I also don't get how you think "he seems genuinely angry" is in-depth analysis. I'm sick of this retarded conversation with you because it's NEVER going to get either of us anywhere. Just leave me the fuck alone. Whatever marv. Just be a baby then. | ||
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On March 30 2013 08:42 marvellosity wrote: Says the guy who's swore at me multiple times this game for no reason whatsoever when I'd done nothing similar to provove it. Ok. What are you even talking about? I haven't swore at you. Pre-Post Edit: Oh wait, I said "What the fuck" to one of your posts. Mah bad, dawg. | ||
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On March 30 2013 09:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: I just posted two posts directed to marv where i explain it. :D So the sole reason for your town read was because he defended you? Isn't that, in itself, enough scum motivation for a scum to defend a townie (he gets town reads from it)? And like marv said, scum defend townies from other townies all the time. | ||
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On March 30 2013 09:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: No it's not if you can instead cause a shitfest in thread like what was about to come between me and Cora on D1, i was really mad at him at some point. And the fact that s&b can't possibly know how experienced i am as a player - i could fuck something up and get myself mislynched. Again: scum do this ALL THE TIME. Do you want examples? | ||
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On March 30 2013 09:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes i understand that. Scum also do not want to say what they do not deed to say. An organized co-working D1 town is a disaster for mafia. That's why i think s&b's defence on me was really really a townie act. 1) Prevent a possible shitstorm between me / OO 2) Keep town organized It's irrelevant because S&B's claim makes him very likely to be town. But that heuristic is bad :o | ||
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On March 30 2013 09:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well there are different approaches to mafia for everyone and i do not think having a different approach is right/worng. It's all about identificating the motives behind peoples actions. Scumplay can be handled very differently and in my mind i didn't see that defence coming from scum!s&b. Maybe i was wrong or right or maybe we are both right here, idk. Fine. Here's scum S&B defending me for no reason in Chrono Trigger (it wasn't even a lynch day...we were electing a Mayor). He really had no reason to defend me. He just used the defense of me to start slinging suspicion at Hapa: On November 22 2012 04:26 strongandbig wrote: ehrmagerd he was inconsistent wooooooooooooooow this is a big deal guys (no it's not) not feeling the hapa happenin right now | ||
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On March 30 2013 10:06 marvellosity wrote: I'm sure you talked about Acro in more detail in your filter, but I've had a bit to drink - can you summarise why you find him suspicious for me? Pick me, pick me! | ||
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On March 30 2013 10:07 marvellosity wrote: Er, I choose you? (I have no idea what for, but go for it!) Well, I want to hear what OO has to say. But I've been thinking about Acro a bunch and he is interesting. I'll explain more in a bit. | ||
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On March 30 2013 10:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you still want to discuss this okay then: See the difference in defences? Most notably the difference in effort s&b put into this compared to the defence in my case. Sorry, it's kind of spam at this point because the discussion is completely irrelevant. (Well, not completely. If you are scum, it would be in your best interest to have a town read on S&B for defending you, when by all logic you shouldn't. But meh) We can discuss it in post-game. | ||
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On March 30 2013 10:21 marvellosity wrote: Apparently rayn is mafia in XXXIX this makes me think considerably worse of him here (sorry man) see you all tomorrow Still here for half a second? You had Acro down as town during the night because of his "silliness". Then rescinded it. What made you change your mind? | ||
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On March 30 2013 10:21 marvellosity wrote: Apparently rayn is mafia in XXXIX this makes me think considerably worse of him here (sorry man) see you all tomorrow Hmmm? I'm looking at XXXIX and I don't see rayne in the player list :o Unless he was smurfing? | ||
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I thought you meant TL Mafia XXXIX G'nite. | ||
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On March 30 2013 10:38 marvellosity wrote: This is to Kei. I'm literally going to bed immediately after this post. I'm assuming there's 4 mafia in a 16 player setup, that seems obvious. Hapa is way too sensible and town-leader-y to be mafia I think. You/Corazon/s&b have claims that I can't disbelieve right now. I assume sinani and Smurf are mafia. This leaves 2 mafia. That's out of Oats/Acro/Dandel/rayn/prplhz/OO I can't see prplhz being mafia with Smurf, that makes no sense. Palmar and I had townread on Oats, so for now I'll discount him as well. That leaves Acro/Dandel/Rayn/OO From my POV 2 of them are gonna be mafia. I'm not sure on any of them. Dandel has threatened to shoot me twice (check out his references to Themed where he NKed me as town). OO maybe seems townie? I dunno. All these players I can give vague reasons for being town. Maybe i'll find time tomorrow to check into it, maybe i won't. But that's how i basically view the game right now. See, I don't think it is likely at all that Acro and Sinani are mafia together. Sure, Acro was in there day 1 pushing the counter-wagon to Sinani after I claimed, but: On March 29 2013 06:56 Acrofales wrote: I have time for one more filter and picked Sinani. I actually think there's a good chance he's scum. 1. He was cagey on the OO claim. He didn't just have an opinion, but was very careful, as if he didn't want to stick his neck out. 2. No reads. He has given his opinion of Nisani. Other than that? Nothing. I don't even know what he thought of OO with the lack of a role PM. A minor blurb about prplhz. I had a quick look at Sinani's town meta (think I only ever played with him as scum) and he seems more useful. I agree that he is more active than his usual scumgame, but a 2 page filter is not exactly the paragon of an active townie. Sinani, who do you want to lynch, why? Why have you not said anything at all about anybody except Nisani. As an added bonus, Nisani thought he was scum at the end, and they have a long history together. It might have been an OMGUS and I have to save myself, but he did give a scumread on Sinani. He had already been saying that Smurf was his top read. For the sake of argument, let's assume that all 3 of them are scum (Acro, Smurf, and sinani). Acro could probably see that Smurf wasn't able to be saved, so he jumps in the town sentiment with the bus. But, why would he throw sinani out there too? I mean, it's not like town would have forgotten about sinani anyways, but it makes very very little sense to bus both of your teammates like that. If was going to spend the time to look at "one more filter" and conclude that person was scum to push alongside Smurf, why his partner instead of some "weaker" townie? I just don't see it. So yea, I find it very unlikely that Acro and Sinani are scum together. I would put my bets on one of them being scum, but not both. So which one? I think Acro has a much, much higher chance of being scum than sinani. As far as I can tell, the case on sinani basically boils down to 1) lurking, 2) no strong reads, 3) Nisani thought he was scum, and he thought Nisani was scum, and since they are friends they should know each other better. So I flipped through 5-6 town sinani games. Just from looking over his filters with no context, in none of them was he exactly a beacon of townieness. He had ~1 page of filter in most. He had very little in the way of reads in most, especially thought out reads (the exception being MLP, where he did have a couple posts with 5-6 lines of solid thought). Hell, I even cross-referenced games that sinani and Nisani were both town in. In Starship, town sinani votes for town Nisani before he got lynched day 1. So meh, sinani could be scum, he could not be. I don't think any of the cases on him are super strong though, and since I don't believe sinani and Acro are scum *together*, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I actually think sinani is town and that Acro is scum. Now, why is Acro scum? Well, first off, look at the post I quoted earlier. Acro "had a look at sinani's town meta and he seems more useful". I encourage you all to go look for yourselves, and see if what I described makes more sense or Acro's version. I mean, sinani is a player who has been lynched day 1 FOUR times as town (in 14 town games). And either survived or been end-gamed another 4 times. So in ~60% of his town-games he was either scummy enough to be lynched on day 1, or useless enough to never be nightkilled. Acro's description doesn't ring true, to me. It reads like someone who wants to look like he's contributing useful input, but didn't actually. + Show Spoiler + Semi-irrelevant because it can't be proven, but it also feels awfully "convenient" that the "one last filter" that Acro decided to flip through became his "Yep, this guy is scum. Push push push!" especially when Acro had been hard pushing his counter-wagon day 1. On March 29 2013 07:07 Acrofales wrote: I survived! Is it just me, or does that read fake a hell? I'm going to go back a bit for this next part: On March 26 2013 13:35 Acrofales wrote: I am null on Marv. However, town Marv just got horrifically burned in Personality. I can see him being cautious and off his game. Anyway, calling Marv scum (for realz, not for trollz) today is pointless. It will just cause a horrific tunnelfest that shits up the thread. Either Marv will get back into his groove and prove his value to town, or he won't and we lynch him later. Reasonable sentiment. I even expressed something similar myself. But: On March 27 2013 12:14 Acrofales wrote: I don't trust you at all. What happened: You give a read on OO saying he isn't playing scared, which is the main theme of his scum game: I said that I thought he was quite timid this game and wasn't sticking his neck out on anything: You posted the meta to show how OO is timid when he's scum: And now comes the bait and switch, because any meta read must have two sides. You can't just say "he's not scum because he's not playing similar to his scum meta", unless it is completely obvious that he IS playing similar to his town meta. I looked at OO's town games at that is blatantly not the case. Now instead of retracting the meta read you're like "well, I meant that he wasn't scared", which is what we argued about in the first place. You are pulling an InsertSmurfHere. You cite half a meta case and then do fancy handwaving to make the other half go away. But you're not Yamato and should know better. ##unvote ##vote Marvellosity I thought he wasn't going to call marv scum for realz? Did he just forget? His entire premise for not wanting to call marv scum was to not cause a shitfit that sidetracks the thread and a potentially town marv. But then what happens: he gets in a shitfit with marv that went on for hours (even into the next real life day) and sidetracks the thread. I can't see any townie motivation for that. On March 29 2013 09:31 Acrofales wrote: That's mainly because I'm very unsure of Marv. I had a scumread on him, but during the night it sort of went away. I want to hear those reads he promised, so I have nothing much to say about Marv at the moment. "I want to see if the marv bandwagon is going to take off before I give any opinions about him." But more importantly, I wasn't putting a gun to his head and saying "Do you want to lynch marv right now? Why or why not?" I just wanted some thoughts, since he made the case on marv, called him scum a few times after that, then never followed up with it at all. What made him change his read on marv during the night? Why not share his thoughts since I specifically asked him for them? + Show Spoiler [mildly irrelevant] + And like I said earlier, his push onto Smurf smells very much like a necessary bus. Maybe that's "association before flips" case, but meh. Thread sentiment was already turning pretty hard towards Smurf (IMHO) when Acro came in and made his case. But I will admit that this point is both unprovable and perfectly possible from a townie. That's why it goes in a "mildly irrelevant" spoiler. Going to drop my vote for now. Someone come around and talk about Acro with me please. | ||
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Also, let's discuss Dandel. He's moving up higher and higher on my scum-o-meter. Currently my scumteam looks like Smurf, Acro, Dandel, and one of marv/rayne/prplhz. | ||
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On March 30 2013 12:17 ObviousOne wrote: Keirathi, trust me on Marv town. This is not a joke, this is for serious. If I could tell you exactly why, I would, but my role does not permit it. In other news, you just pointed out that Acro was pushing on Smurf, and I had a moment of clarity. There was no reason for a scum Acro to push a scum Smurf D1. I am dropping Acro for Smurf. You brought up his having a bullshit townread on prp. Let's talk about Smurf. But....Acro didn't push smurf on day 1. At all. :o He only started pushing him n1, after everyone had already started calling Smurf scum (and by everyone, I mean me, marv, and Hapa specifically because I didn't go back and read who else had started). | ||
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On March 30 2013 12:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Keirathi why no prplhz in your scumlist? On March 30 2013 12:13 Keirathi wrote: Currently my scumteam looks like Smurf, Acro, Dandel, and one of marv/rayne/prplhz. ?? | ||
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On March 30 2013 12:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sorry. I meant why is prplhz so low in there? Like why is Dandel over prplhz? Basically because prplhz actually has put in some effort into the game. And I've played scum with prplhz, and he literally put 0 effort into it. His posting during night 1 was what I expect of a town prplhz. The reason he's still on the list though is because it didn't come until after Hapa and I had been railing on him. Dandel has just trolled all game. I originally had him leaning town solely because of his activity level and participation, but there's no actual content there and his activity has fallen off dramatically. On March 30 2013 12:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also what makes you think OO is town? I already explained. He is playing very, very, very different than his last scum game. Plus, some pre-game conversations I had with him in the last 2 weeks. He was worried that he was falling into the "bad townie that everyone ignores forever" category, and he genuinely wanted to improve. Everything about his play this game feels like he's working hard and putting in the effort to become a better player, even if he has been misguided at times. | ||
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On March 30 2013 12:43 sinani206 wrote: How can you say that prpl is putting effort into this game? The only effort I see is his self-defense on day one. Everything else is forced and/or sheepy and/or trolly. And why do his night posts convince you so much? Just read through those again and they don't really show any townie to me Also, he never posted the reads he talked about at night in the thread at daytime They don't convince me. Hence why he's still null'ish to me. But prplhz is a super easy mislynch when he's town. I've seen it happen too many times. I'm more convinced of Smurf/Acro, so I'm willing to give prplhz some more time to step his game up. | ||
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On March 30 2013 13:06 ObviousOne wrote: Did I have it backwards? There's a nugget somehow related to my erroneous presentation. Smurf was not on Acro d1 but Acro was on Smurf D1? Need to go verify this in filters in a moment. If it was the case that Acro was on Smurf D1 then that's what I was trying to say. I opened both filters briefly to look and that might be why I got all mucked up. If that's still wrong then I don't even know what I was thinking. I blame my Warcraft addiction =[ Neither of them were attacking each other day 1. Not sure what you're talking about Acro mentioned Smurf a few times early in day 1, but never followed up on it and never even called him scum, just questioned him a couple of times. Then during night 1, Acro made his case on Smurf, and then Smurf countered it and started pushing Acro. | ||
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On March 30 2013 13:12 ObviousOne wrote: The case is here, but it comes in N1 since he was certain Nisani was scum before the flip: + Show Spoiler [acro case on ISH] + On March 28 2013 07:34 Acrofales wrote: Smurf: 3 particular things make him scum: 1. If Smurf is Yamato, he has played at least 2 games with a town DI (British 1 and Personality 2) and thus cannot simply claim ignorance of how DI plays as town. Even if he can be forgiven the remarkable oversight of not looking at DI's townplay, his excuse of ignorance here is a lie. 2. His scumreads: All 3 of his scumreads throughout the game:Grackaroni, Cora and Nisani. I painted Cora green, because I doubt this is a power play by the scumteam to claim mason. However, most strikingly, look how easily he jumps onto the Nisani is scum wagon. He never even mentions Nisani as a scumread until his completely irrational defense of prplhz (see point 3), when this suddenly happens: + Show Spoiler [prplhz town] + On March 27 2013 15:04 InsertSmurfHere wrote: It's quite easy. Read yamato's analysis of prplhz's meta from Nomination. When you look at his filter from LIX, it is blatantly antagonistic with town and completely uninvolved. Do these posts read trollish to you? Here he's clearly following a line of thought with a few people. While his interaction is minimal, it is far from being distant. This does not read like the mafia prplhz I know. What concerns me about all this is how lazy you are with this push on prplhz. I really think you don't know him well if you think low activity = scum in his case. What is MOST concerning, however, is how easily Nisani jumps in with you. Observe: Two posts, barely mentions prplhz, and he's on the wagon. Regardless of prplhz's alignment, this looks terrible. He's even less concerned with figuring out the game than prplhz appears to be. So... the MOST concerting part of the prplhz case is how easily Nisani jumps on the wagon. So suddenly Nisani has been bombarded to scum, as part of the whole prplhz = town crusade. From that point onwards he never even questions anything else and just blindly wants to lynch Nisani. 3. Irrational defense of prlhz. I would quote posts, but it shat up the thread for about 3 pages. I don't even think this says anything about prplhz's alignment. I can see a scum doing this for a townie (defend the innocent for townie points, when no scumbuddy is in danger of being lynched) or a scumbuddy (given that the alternative at the time was my push on Nisani, which he promptly sheeped he could have been defending his buddy), but the whole thing feels like Smurf had made up his mind before even starting to post on what prplhz's alignment was and was going to defend that stance to the death. And while some of the points he made make sense, when I looked at prplhz's filter at the time, it just read like a scum filter, so it's the complete lack of DOUBT about the alignment that strikes me. That is not the critical mindset of a townie. TLDR: lied to excuse his shoddy case, no critical mindset when analysing players and has only wanted to lynch townies. Verdict: scum. Now lets move onto everybody else. (okay, it's technically not d1) Right. That was n1, after a bunch of people had already started calling Smurf scum. | ||
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On March 30 2013 13:24 ObviousOne wrote: Smurf's read on prplhz in that second post is also wishy-washy on Dandel. Huh? | ||
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You said "Smurf's read on prplhz" was wishy-washy on Dandel. | ||
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On March 30 2013 13:47 ObviousOne wrote: My list had 6 names. Of the 6, 4 remain. Between Acro and Smurf I preferred Arco earlier. I didn't like how our conversation ended abruptly yesterday and I thought he might be going down quietly as mafia. However in looking at N2 in its entirety and considering that Acro made a case on smurf first, I don't see a reason for that to happen if both are mafia. Acro had suspicions D1 on Smurf, and Smurf's platform against Acro is that Acro Omgus'd Nisani when in fact this very platform against Acro is omgus itself. Ah okay. That makes sense. So you don't think Acro and Smurf are scum together, but you think Smurf is scum? Also, you still didn't comment on what I said about sinani, and since you're still voting for him I assume you still think he is scum. | ||
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On March 30 2013 14:00 ObviousOne wrote: Replying from iPod so this will be short and I can embellish later. Your conclusion is that Sinani and Acro can't both be scum. Is that the crux of it? Between the three of them, why can't Acro just have lucky/smart reads and be the only town among them? Acro more likely to be town than Smurf. Unless I missed more of your case and that's not on purpose, it's because Apple product. The "crux" of my post are all the reasons that I think Acro is scum. And if I think Acro is scum, I think sinani isn't scum. And I gave some reasons why: On March 30 2013 12:11 Keirathi wrote: As far as I can tell, the case on sinani basically boils down to 1) lurking, 2) no strong reads, 3) Nisani thought he was scum, and he thought Nisani was scum, and since they are friends they should know each other better. So I flipped through 5-6 town sinani games. Just from looking over his filters with no context, in none of them was he exactly a beacon of townieness. He had ~1 page of filter in most. He had very little in the way of reads in most, especially thought out reads (the exception being MLP, where he did have a couple posts with 5-6 lines of solid thought). Hell, I even cross-referenced games that sinani and Nisani were both town in. In Starship, town sinani votes for town Nisani before he got lynched day 1. | ||
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On March 30 2013 14:33 ObviousOne wrote: Serious question, if his normal town play is that lacking, how are we supposed to evaluate him? I honestly have no idea. On March 30 2013 14:33 ObviousOne wrote: 1. He's been prodding at prplhz since the vote thing. prplhz responds to it reasonable: Somehow translates into some kind of fatal attack on sinani: Why blow this simple question out of proportion? This could be a valid point, but to me it feels more like a misunderstanding. I don't particularly think he was blowing the question out of proportion, I just think he phrased his counter-question poorly. It reads to me more like a "Do YOU think I'm scum? Why?" type question more than an "OMFG WHY DO YOU HATE ME?" type question. Anyways, that's just my interpretation of it, but I can concede that I might be wrong and it was just an overreaction. On March 30 2013 14:33 ObviousOne wrote: Then he attempted to start a nothing-fight with me, like he's more interested in keeping tabs on the voting thread than in keeping up with the game: I did in fact post in the thread immediately after, and he dropped it just as quickly. How is that make him scum, though? Hell, I called out prplhz for his ninja vote earlier in day 1 (in fact, the same ninja vote that sinani called out in the previous quote train). Townies do it, scum does it. Not alignment indicative. On March 30 2013 14:33 ObviousOne wrote: Discouraging people discussing things at night... I just disagree with this completely and maybe it's the meta here that talking at night "gives mafia more information"? Maybe that should change. Like shit, it was what, 12 minutes to night post. Why even comment on it at this point? Some people on TL just think that night time isn't really the place to start talking about all your reads. I don't agree (especially if we're talking about reads at the deadline), but I don't really fault people for thinking like that. People have different ideals of what they think "good' play is. Everyone plays differently. On March 30 2013 14:33 ObviousOne wrote: Day 2, back on the prplhz train. Calling him trolly. His insinuation that prplhz is somehow being useless to town is the epitome of hypocrisy. And again, how is being a hypocrite a strictly scum trait? Have you never seen a townie be hypocritical? | ||
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On March 30 2013 15:06 ObviousOne wrote: Not sure this conversation is going to get us much further between each other, maybe the drunk one(s) will chime in at some point with something fresh. prplhz seems like a really easy target coming from a really easy target, and I don't think prplhz is more likely to flip mafia than sinani. That's the only scum read we have from him too; where is our promised follow up regarding Dandel? My entire point is that you are missing the forest for the trees. Do I think sinani is 100% town? No, not even close. Nothing in his play screams town. He's the epitome of the word "null". So do me a favor. Go to the database and open the spoiler and click through sinani's town games, and tell me what you think. Do you think he feels particularly useful? | ||
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On March 30 2013 15:29 ObviousOne wrote: Okay, I browsed them to get a feel for them. I really don't know. He hasn't done anything (or not done something he should have) to get modkilled. His filter's past the 2 page mark. I guess I'll unvote him. I'm no expert on meta and I'm probably blasting him for not even trying to be a beacon of shining towniness. You win. What about Acro? I still don't think that both Acro and Smurf are mafia together. I'm not trying to "win". I just want you to recognize the point that I was making. So, you looked over the filters. Now, where did Acro get the "I had a quick look at Sinani's town meta (think I only ever played with him as scum) and he seems more useful" sentiment from? Because I just don't see it. As far as Acro and Smurf being scum together...that's a harder one to answer. Yea, a mutual double bus is uncommon. But it is not completely unheard of (in recent memory, VE and Snarfs went after each other hard on day 1 of Nomination, iirc). There are some mitigating circumstances that make me think it is a possibility here, though. **  isclaimer: everything I'm about to say is in a hypothetical land where Acro and Smurf are both mafia.***So day 1 ends and night 1 starts. Thread sentiment is turning pretty heavily against Smurf. How should Acro react? Does he try to save his buddy, or does he hard bus for the town cred? Remember, Acro hasn't really been under any major suspicion up until this point. The biggest thing against him was how hard he was pushing for the Nisani mislynch, which isn't alignment indicative in itself. So, lets say Acro decides to bus. He throws the case out there after everyone is already calling Smurf mafia. Now, if Smurf realizes that he is more than likely going to die (hell, he has me, marv, Hapa, and now his scumbuddy Acro all pushing his case), what should he do in reaction? What helps the scum team out the most? Attacking the townies who are attacking him, attacking a random townie, or attacking his scumbuddy? It seems to me that it wouldn't be a bad play at all for him to OMGUS onto his scum buddy, because when Smurf does flip mafia, the people he spent a ton of time attacking inherently look better because of it. ***End disclaimer*** I'm not saying that is 100% how it happened or anything, but I think it is a reasonable line of thought. The alternative is so take one of them out of the vote today and wait for flips, but I'm honestly not sure which one I would take out, and who I would replace in. And I'm almost positive that there is at least one scum between the two of them. | ||
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Keirathi
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Oats, tell me why Acro isn't scum before I get back. | ||
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On March 30 2013 16:14 Oatsmaster wrote: I am absolutely firmly null on him. He has made sense, but I know that he can play that way as scum too. Nothing really stood out about him to me. Ill read his filter and tell you what I think in a while. Particularly comment on my case plx. | ||
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Unlynchable claim :o Bahhhhh, so convenient. Acro explain your role now. Go. | ||
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On March 30 2013 20:06 marvellosity wrote: Just read what Kei wrote for a start. The thing to think about is when is someone "doomed". A mafia's objective changes markedly at this point, and goes into wifom-mode, rather than push-a-mislynch-mode. I can't remember Kei's reasons for thinking sinani and Acro couldn't be mafia together even though I only read them 20 minutes ago, but I do remember thinking that they weren't good reasons. lol. Obviously I am aware of that, since it is part of my case against Acro, even if it is just speculation. And part of why I don't think Acro and sinani are scum together. Go back and look through the night. There really was very little discussion about sinani. You mentioned him once "sinani looks worse by default" or something like that. OO posed those questions that kind of had a "sinani is scum" assumption behind them. But there really wasn't much actual talk about sinani. Almost all of the night phase revolved around you/Smurf/Me+cora/OO. So, at that point, I DO think Smurf was doomed. But I do NOT think sinani was doomed in any way. Therefore, since I think Acro is scum, I don't think there was any reason for scum Acro to bus two teammates so hard. | ||
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On March 31 2013 01:03 Keirathi wrote: Anyways I want to talk about this a bit more: Obviously I am aware of that, since it is part of my case against Acro, even if it is just speculation. And part of why I don't think Acro and sinani are scum together. Go back and look through the night. There really was very little discussion about sinani. You mentioned him once "sinani looks worse by default" or something like that. OO posed those questions that kind of had a "sinani is scum" assumption behind them. But there really wasn't much actual talk about sinani. Almost all of the night phase revolved around you/Smurf/Me+cora/OO. So, at that point, I DO think Smurf was doomed. But I do NOT think sinani was doomed in any way. Therefore, since I think Acro is scum, I don't think there was any reason for scum Acro to bus two teammates so hard. EBWOP: I should also say that I don't think that it is impossible for Acro and sinani are scum together. I just don't find it very likely at all, especially if Smurf is mafia. And I'm kind of taking it for granted that Smurf is mafia since he gave up. | ||
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On March 31 2013 01:48 strongandbig wrote: I don't like the idea of "using the double lynch to test acrofales's unlynchable claim." A double lynch on day 2 is a huge bonus IMO, especially with so many serious and engaged townies still alive. To acro: if you are town, you should absolutely explain the mechanics of your unlynchable role. Allowing us to waste a lynch on verifying it if we don't have to is nearly as bad as if you got mislynched yourself. To me, the motivation to explain yourself is so strong the if you continue to refuse, I'm going to have to assume you are lying and scum. If you dont want to test the unlynchable claim, who do you want to lynch? | ||
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Who would you lynch beside him if we don't lynch Smurf+Acro. | ||
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On March 31 2013 01:03 Keirathi wrote: Anyways I want to talk about this a bit more: Obviously I am aware of that, since it is part of my case against Acro, even if it is just speculation. And part of why I don't think Acro and sinani are scum together. Go back and look through the night. There really was very little discussion about sinani. You mentioned him once "sinani looks worse by default" or something like that. OO posed those questions that kind of had a "sinani is scum" assumption behind them. But there really wasn't much actual talk about sinani. Almost all of the night phase revolved around you/Smurf/Me+cora/OO. So, at that point, I DO think Smurf was doomed. But I do NOT think sinani was doomed in any way. Therefore, since I think Acro is scum, I don't think there was any reason for scum Acro to bus two teammates so hard. **SNIPPED OUT OF MY FOLLOWUP POST*** EBWOP: I should also say that I don't think that it is impossible for Acro and sinani are scum together. I just don't find it very likely at all, especially if Smurf is mafia. And I'm kind of taking it for granted that Smurf is mafia since he gave up. Agree or disagree? | ||
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On March 31 2013 03:55 marvellosity wrote: Perma masons AND a mason circle? Fuck me. It says that there is a mason circle in the OP. Not reading? | ||
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On March 31 2013 03:57 marvellosity wrote: Yes, I thought that would be you and Corazon, and someone would be randomly given access to your QT but told not to post. Specifically Grack in fact was my thoughts, given his role description. We weren't given a QT. Kurumi just told us to communicate however we wanted to. I actually made our QT, and the only people with the link are me and Cora. Sorry, I thought everyone realized we weren't the mason circle, or I would have explained in more detail. | ||
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On March 31 2013 04:04 Hapahauli wrote: I'm not sure yet. I want to hear from Acro about this "you can't lynch me" stuff before I committ. rayn said he claimed vote rigger. Unlynchable townie vote rigger? That seems hard to believe. | ||
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Unless by unlynchable he means he will just rig the votes so he doesn't get lynched. In which case, I would rather force him to use it today than lynch someone else today, and he still has the power to use it later. | ||
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On March 31 2013 04:09 Hapahauli wrote: Well I have no idea what a vote-rigger does. Like hypothetically you could switch all the votes and get someone else lynched. Is that likely? Idunno. Most vote-riggers I've seen are much more limited in scope (can only switch one person's votes). Eh. Well may as well vote him unless I get a reasonable explanation. ##Unvote ##Vote InsertSmurfHere ##Vote Acrofeles From everyone PYP game ever: You are a vote rigger! You have two oneshot powers. The first is you can, once only, force a double lynch at any time during the voting (the two leading candidates at the end of the day are lynched). The second is that you may rig the votes as you see fit. Surprise! You may only use one power per day. Palmar already had the first power. It wouldn't totally shock me for someone to have the second power. | ||
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If Acro's power is vote rigger like I quoted a few posts ago, I think it is in our best interests to force him to use it today when there's still a second lynch that we control, rather than put it off until he can solely control the lynch. (If he can control both lynches then that is OP as fuck and i will rage). So anyways, we force him to use the power today to save himself. See who he lynches in his stead, and then judge if we should lynch him again tomorrow. | ||
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But why would he? If he's scum, why not lynch a townie instead? | ||
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So quiet | ||
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On March 31 2013 06:21 strongandbig wrote: i dont think that will work but i will do it anyway, i guess it cant hurt This. At least the way I understand traditional vote rigger to work, it just changes the outcome, not the actual votes. But yea, I guess it doesn't hurt, just in case. | ||
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If anyone has KP, kill one of Acro or Smurf tonight. We lynch the other tomorrow. | ||
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Tomorrow is LYLO. OP role is OP. | ||
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Seems extraordinarily likely: On March 30 2013 12:17 ObviousOne wrote: Keirathi, trust me on Marv town. This is not a joke, this is for serious. If I could tell you exactly why, I would, but my role does not permit it. | ||
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On March 31 2013 07:19 marvellosity wrote: ... the vote-rigger can a) make a double lynch and b) completely change the results of a double lynch? what is this bullshit? I think Palmar made the double lynch, no Acro. But yes, still extremely imba. | ||
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On March 31 2013 07:27 marvellosity wrote: If sinani isn't mafia then Oats or prplhz are mafia and I don't get that very much. There's one thing I have to look into with Oats tomorrow to check how I'm feeling. I'm thinking Smurf + prplhz + rayn tbh. | ||
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On March 31 2013 07:28 marvellosity wrote: You really think Smurf hard-defended a mafia prplhz on meta? Yes. 1) It's yamato (supposedly). And 2) Look, you're calling him town now. It obviously served his purpose. You think its more likely that scum Acro called out his scum buddy for no reason? :o | ||
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On March 31 2013 07:31 marvellosity wrote: yes, I do think that's more likely. It's so far out of my zone that I would ever falsely hard-defend someone, with passion like that. Calling out a mafia team-mate is fucking easy by comparison, imo. I disagree, but whatever. It may not even be important. d1 12/4 (Lynch town) n1 11/4 (scum shoot town, KP blocked) d2 10/4 (lynch 2 townies) n2 8/4 (town vig shoots scum, scum shoots 2 townies) d3 6/3 (lynch scum) n3 6/2 (scum shoots 1 townie) d4 5/2 At which point we have a mislynch to give. Can lynch all 3 of them, (Disclaimer: this is assuming 4 scum and KP = #mafia/2 rounded up) | ||
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I'll go back through his filter sometime tonight and think about him some more. I had basically just written him off as townie because of his day 1 play. | ||
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On March 31 2013 07:38 marvellosity wrote: Have you ever hard-defended a team-mate over the course of literally 15 posts? On meta? Can you even envisage it? I'm seriously struggling to. Obviously you know that I haven't since I've only played scum twice and you were in both of those games My problem with his hard defense was just that he was almost solely nitpicking at Hapa and I about wording and specifics. And some of his points were just so blatantly wrong. Blehhhh, I'll think about it some more. | ||
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On March 31 2013 08:05 cDgCorazon wrote: Oh yeah lol, I can't read. It's ok because I have a town read on Kei. I just can't put my finger on it... What are you even talking about? :o | ||
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So yea, ignore that post. | ||
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From Acro - "Reread the Sinani exchange and you're right. I don't like his reaction at all. He is very cagey about the whole thing. Problem with Sinani is that he always looks like scum to me. I haven't yet played or read a game in which I thought he was town." Then why did he later say "I had a quick look at Sinani's town meta (think I only ever played with him as scum) and he seems more useful." Hmmmm. | ||
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I just find it extremely hard to believe that he puts 2 teammates and 2 townies in his list, but neither of the townies are the ones he actually wants to push. | ||
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On March 31 2013 11:50 Hapahauli wrote: Anyway Rayn, I'm still curious about a lot of things behind that vigi mechanic. Particularly 1) Why didn't you shoot Acro before the lynch deadline? 2) Why didn't you shoot Smurf at any point? An even better question: On March 31 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: can we just kill prplhz and OO? How do you propose to kill someone that is already dead? (AKA, why are you not reading the thread?) | ||
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On March 31 2013 15:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Cause for once I dont have a blue role Prp is town, he is not the most helpful town but he has been involved in the lynches. Im honestly not sure about sinani, his behaviour at the end of the Nisani lynch was town I think, he was so confident. And nisani was town. Its basically a 1 for 1 deal, and no scum would do it. He couldve give a noncommittal answer, or a town read and Nisani wouldve gotten lynched anyway with marv and palmar? behind it. So therefore, Either marv is scum, or keirathi and cora are fakeclaiming. If rayn flips scum, we need to take a REALLY CLOSE look at them. You forgetting about Smurf, bro? | ||
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You keeping me in the list doesn't even make sense though. Acro flipped scum. You were voting Smurf yesterday. Now you think rayn is scum, and if he does flip scum, that town should look into me and Cora. That would be 5 scum. In a 16 player game. No. Come up with a straight story this time, k? | ||
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On March 31 2013 15:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Prp is town, On March 31 2013 15:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Im honestly not sure about sinani On March 31 2013 15:52 Oatsmaster wrote: THEREFORE we lynch smurf, then we lynch rayn, then we lynch prp, then we lynch sinani, then we lynch marv and win. How does it make sense to lynch the person you think is town BEFORE you lynch the person you are unsure about? :OOO | ||
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On March 31 2013 21:15 InsertSmurfHere wrote: I'll talk about this postgame, but this was the worst game ever to try to smurf in. Aw. Not even an attempt to keep trying | ||
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On April 01 2013 00:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Come on Keir, talk to me, im bored. You first. | ||
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On March 31 2013 16:56 Oatsmaster wrote: My point is that Acro sacrificed himself to kill 2 townies and save 1 scum and 1 possible scum. His role said he could affect 1 lynch right? But that was 2 lynches. He obviously effected both lynches. Not sure where you're going with this. And how did he "sacrifice" himself, exactly? His role didn't say anything about sacrificing himself, but obviously he knew that if he used his power it would be considered a scum-claim. In that sense, yes he did sacrifice himself. On March 31 2013 16:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Also, what do you and keir think about his reaction/posting after the kill? 'His', who? On March 31 2013 16:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Also Marv could have some kind of GF role. OO's role said that he would be given information about the setup. We don't have any idea what information that is, but I find it hard to believe that he was told that marv was town when marv is actually GF. Sense, it makes none. On March 31 2013 16:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Again thats why I suggested the order. By process of elimination ok, Sinani is the least scummy out of the 3 Marv is the least likely I just think that prp is town. So thats why I suggested the order. So you think they are all town, and it's really just a random order? Well, okay. But the rest of the game is (probably) in LYLO. There are no mislynches to give. Give me your best reasoning on which of them is scum. | ||
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Someone had to shoot Acro. No one else is claiming the shot. Unless you mean that scum rayn shot scum Acro. Which is possible, but I don't think its very likely for most people. I'm not sure if rayn has the balls for it, though. Maybe he does. | ||
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But I highly doubt that. Nothing about Acro's role suggested that he would die for using his powers, and I've never seen anything in any game ever that would make someone randomly explode like that aside from a vig kill. Pretty damn likely that rayn is a vig. Town or scum is less certain, but town is the higher probability choice. | ||
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@Kurumi: On March 31 2013 07:22 Kurumi wrote: Obviously, you are going to use that only once, because people are pretty angry that they are getting killed and rigging them more than once would result in your inevitable death Does this mean that Acro *could* use his power twice, but that would kill him? On first read through, I assumed you were just saying it was a 1-shot power because using it twice would be suicide, but please clarify your wording. | ||
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On April 01 2013 01:13 marvellosity wrote: Phone posting - did rayn claim Grack shot too? I forget and I'm trying to mull things over No. Pretty sure its still un-claimed. | ||
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On April 01 2013 01:24 Oatsmaster wrote: Assuming 4 scum. Lets say we can mislynch 4. Cause this isnt exactly a mini and such. Im pretty sure its not Lylo, Mylo. Considering that Acro's death gives us another mislynch. Zzzzz. I'll go through this again. We started 12 town/4 scum. Grack was killed, that put us at 11 town/4 scum. We lynched a townie, that put us at 10/4. NIght 1 starts, and scum (at least very very likely) had 2 KP, but one was blocked and 1 townie died. Day 2 starts, and we're at 9 townies/4 scum. 2 townies get lynched, putting us at 7/4. Night 2 starts, Acro dies putting us at 7/3. It's a reasonable assumption that scum still has 2 KP, which puts us at 5/3 when the day starts tomorrow (in the worst case scenario with no saves). 5/3 is LYLO. Aka no mislynches left. | ||
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Still, only 1. | ||
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How is it a good point? Looking at it objectively, either sinani is scum and obviously Acro wouldn't have used the vote rigged lynch to kill him, or sinani is town and still a viable mislynch opportunity and wouldn't use the vote rigged lynch to kill him :o | ||
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On April 01 2013 01:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Im bored again and its night. Why dandel ion and OO? Seems incredibly weird especially with the 3 confirmed townies and marv. This is actually an interesting question. And its 4 confirmed town + marv (Me, cora, Hapa, S&B). And yes, I am including Cora and myself in there because 1) if rayn is town, then he confirmed us as town with his "Mason check" thing and 2) if rayn is scum, then Cora and I can't be scum with him because that would be 5 scum (again, assuming Smurf actually is scum, which I'm like 99.9999% sure of). So, I would never have lynched OO. He might not have been "confirmed" town, but something very very drastic would have had to have happened before I would have ever stopped fighting against lynching him. Dandel was a weird kill though. I think most of us had him as a slight town read early (?), but towards the middle of day 2 I started thinking he might be scum because he hadn't really been doing a whole lot. But Hapa and S&B. They are only confirmed town through each other. And we really have no idea if scum actually have 2 KP or not. It could have been an elaborate ploy, but if it is, then Hapa is literally playing the scum game of the year and 100000x better than he played scum in Mario and (what I remember of) Duel. I'm really not sure why none of us were lynched. It doesn't make sense. Maybe they were random? Acro's role PM doesn't really say exactly how he rigs the votes. | ||
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On April 01 2013 01:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Actually what did OO say about marv? (Checking now myself) On March 30 2013 12:17 ObviousOne wrote: Keirathi, trust me on Marv town. This is not a joke, this is for serious. If I could tell you exactly why, I would, but my role does not permit it. On March 31 2013 07:00 Kurumi wrote: ObviousOne the Setup Guy Oh look! You are Qatol. The guy who does not play a lot, but balances a lot! It would be weird if you weren't balancing this one! The problem is, you are such a cool guy you balance pretty much every game, so you don't remember all the details about this one. At the start of every night you are going to be given an information about the setup, because you just remembered it! You win with Town when you kill the Scum! Did I mention that you can't ever claim that information in the THREAD? You probably should find a mason circle... | ||
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On April 01 2013 01:48 marvellosity wrote: The point is that mafia can bus with impunity with the vote rigger Somehow I missed this post. But thinking back, this is really the biggest reason that my Acro->sinani analysis falls apart. First off, when Acro made the case on sinani, it was pretty obvious that Smurf was still going to be lynched first. And Acro had no idea that the day would be a double lynch, because that was Palmar's night action (presumably). Now, lets think about the vote rigger role itself. Presumably Acro asked Kurumi if using his power would affect both of the lynches. Which means 100% that yesterday was the day to use it (why lynch one townie for free, when you can lynch two?). So, if Acro can affect both lynches, then pushing 2 of his teammates really isn't very risky. The vote rigging is anonymous, and even if the vote rigging "frames" his two teammates and they get lynched successively at a later point, Acro still looks good coming out of it because he was pushing them. * isclaimer: The other side of that is Acro could "frame" 2 townies with the vote rigging too. Or 1 townie and 1 scum. This is all in a hypothetical where Acro himself didn't get lynched, ofc, but whoever the two town-chosen lynches were, they both come out of the rigged lynches looking much worse.TL;DR - my analysis about sinani not being scum with Acro is irrelevant. I still don't think there is a ton that points to him actually being scum (the biggest being how hard Acro chainsaw defended him day 1), but I think it is a decent possibility again. | ||
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On April 01 2013 03:09 Hapahauli wrote: Oh swell. So check someone in the non-confirmed pool (Sinani, Oats, prplhz) and shoot someone else. Maybe we can get lucky. I believe he can only do one at a time? Either check, or shoot. Not both? | ||
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On April 01 2013 03:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: I see one problem here. Acro claimed his power when the game started in our mason QT. I think he accidently put it there and was thinking he is posting in scum QT (rofl if i am right here, that would be hilarious ^_^). The claim was in our QT for 3 minutes. Me + Grack saw it. Now if Acro ever uses his power and townies get lynched, it incriminates him a lot. Acro didn't mention the vote rigging in any way before he was himself under pressure -> when we started voting him. I do not think Smurf/sinani are both scum and he was gonna use his power in the first place -> scum would have pretty much outed three of them in one phase. Makes sense? Yea, that makes sense. Counter-point, though: If Acro could control who was lynched with his vote-rigging, and he lynched you with it instead of say, Dandel, who would have been alive to tell us that he was the vote rigger? | ||
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On April 01 2013 03:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah if people do not post before the deadline i'm going to take the safer route and just check someone. No need to check. Just shoot. If they are a town mason, they have ABSOLUTELY NO REASON not to claim right now. The only people who wouldn't be claiming are scum. | ||
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On April 01 2013 03:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: You srsly think there is a possibility that i am scum and shot my teammate? To be fair, I think there is a *possibility* that you did. However, I don't find it *likely* that you did. But Acro was dead either way. If you are scum, you might as well shoot him and get town cred to ride to the easy win. The question really comes down to "Does scum rayn have the balls to pull it off?" | ||
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Night ended an hour early? :o | ||
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On April 01 2013 06:03 marvellosity wrote: ... it could also be that. It's the same time for us europeans because of Daylights Savings this weekend :/ If non-Europeans missed night actions because of DST, that would be pretty silly. Deadline was at 5pm my time yesterday, but 4pm today :o | ||
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On April 01 2013 06:18 prplhz wrote: okay i target a player, if he's vanilla he becomes one shot vig, if he's not he dies. palmar n1 smurf n2 So you're saying Smurf is a VT? He didn't die. Then why are you voting him? | ||
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Does it make them a day vig, or can they only use it at night? | ||
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Bleh. I just don't see any way that makes sense as a town role. | ||
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Yea, I can definitely see prplhz as scum based on his play, and that role just fits more for scum than town. | ||
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On April 01 2013 06:35 sinani206 wrote: I thought we always go by tl time? because I thought night ends at 0700. Anyway, I don't see why you would give a confirmed scum a vig shot. Or even risk that happening. Not worth possibly killing him half a day earlier. Full role claim. Go. | ||
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On April 01 2013 05:35 marvellosity wrote: lol yes, I think you would definitely have the balls for it too. And yes, the fact you shot Grack makes it likely you're town, given we had 2 KP from mafia night 1. Usually in a game this size, mafia might be given one KP but then additional roles like a scumvig. It seems unlikely that mafia would get 2 KP *and* a multi-shot vigi. In addition your explanation was more than I was hoping for, so that's good. So, prplhz's role explains the kill on Palmar night one. We don't actually know if scum have 2 KP or not. My mind is kind of hurting from thinking about this game, but update how you feel about this and prplhz please. | ||
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On April 01 2013 06:42 prplhz wrote: kei if you believe my role and you think i'm scum then explain my night actions Shooting Palmar. That has obvious scum benefit. Of course, if he's not VT then you put a gun in his hand, but we can't even confirm that that is part of your role. Maybe you just kill anyone if they happen to have powers and the vig thing is just bullshit you're making up. Smurf: Meh. You claim you used your power on him, but how do we know that you're not lying? Smurf is obviously scum and we're going to lynch him today, so you claiming you "checked" him and gave him a gun is safe because he'll never get to shoot to verify your story. But you're right, it doesn't make much sense that you, as scum, wouldn't have used your power on one of the confirmed townies trying to kill them. Maybe you used it on Hapa and he's a VT? Speculation, ofc. | ||
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On April 01 2013 06:57 prplhz wrote: and then i claimed and now i'm just hoping hapa isn't going to tell the thread that he suddenly has a gun? FINGAS X'ED On April 01 2013 06:50 Keirathi wrote: Maybe you just kill anyone if they happen to have powers and the vig thing is just bullshit you're making up. | ||
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You should use your role on one of Oats or Sinani during the night. Anyone else is unacceptable (Unless Hapa is a VT and he tells you to use it on him.) | ||
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On April 01 2013 07:01 strongandbig wrote: So this implies that mafia only have one factional KP. In that case, they most likely have a vig. This vig is most likely prplhz. Using prplhz's power as claimed makes little to no sense on palmar - he didn't give any indication that he was a VT. It makes a ton of sense for scum. Alternate possibility: scum KP is 2 until one member dies, so when acro died their KP went down to 1. Prplhz, why did you use your power for a non-confirmed only-sort-of check on scum instead of to give town a gun? Marv and I have both claimed that we are vanilla townies, did you ask kurumi what would happen if our role claims are correct and you target us? You're not a vanilla townie, are you? I thought you were a 1-shot Medic? And marv just claimed that he was a roleblocker. | ||
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On April 01 2013 07:04 marvellosity wrote: I'm a vanilla townie but a one-shot roleblocker, much the same as s&b was with medic. Oh god, that is so confusing. Having a power implies NOT Vanilla. Silly Kurumi! <3 | ||
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On April 01 2013 07:07 marvellosity wrote: It also implies that prplhz is at least telling the truth about how his role functions, because it seems specifically designed for that role. True. I wasn't aware that your role specifically called you a VT. Anyways: Sinani, Oats ---- ROLECLAIM ASAP. | ||
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On April 01 2013 07:11 prplhz wrote: you taking notes kei? Totes. Also, even if you are scum, that doesn't mean your role can't be Santa | ||
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After Smurf flips scum, we'll (likely) be at 7 town, 2 scum. Assuming scum drop KP at 2 (or only had 1 to start with), we have more than enough lynches to lynch Oats -> Sinani -> prplhz. That should be GG, barring something unforeseen. | ||
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On April 01 2013 07:28 prplhz wrote: sinani first Why? To you, it literally shouldn't matter a single bit. | ||
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On April 01 2013 07:34 prplhz wrote: because we have a check on him Err what? I guess I'm missing something? | ||
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On March 31 2013 15:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Cause for once I dont have a blue role On April 01 2013 01:59 Oatsmaster wrote: Honestly a themed game. And I get VT. | ||
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On April 01 2013 08:01 prplhz wrote: that's a dumb plan. i give the gun to sinani and if he's not dead tomorrow we lynch him. Yes, this is a better plan. | ||
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On April 01 2013 08:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Look at it this way: If prplhz is town he knows there are three scum in me/Oats/Smurf(almost confirmed)/sinani. Smurf hangs anyway today. If he guns sinani he either flips red, flips green or lives. He can kill sinani on N3. If he flips red good, if he flips green prplhz knows me and Oats are scum. Hell he can even kill me by gunning me the next night. His logic in giving Smurf a gun makes no sense. I dunno what his actual logic was, but he made the right choice in giving it to Smurf, assuming he actually is town, for the same reason that I'm advocating him "checking" sinani tonight even though we are going to lynch sinani tomorrow: we don't want scum to actually have a chance to use the gun if they are vanilla scum. Lets say he did give sinani a gun last night and sinani doesn't die. He gives him another gun tomprrow night to kill him, but it's a night action that resolves at the end of the phase *NOT* an instant vig. So sinani still has the gun from the first night, and can use it to shoot someone. | ||
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You check prplhz tonight. Prplhz gives a gun to sinani. We have a mislynch to give anyways. Lynch Sinani -> Oatsmaster -> prplhz and we win. | ||
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On April 01 2013 08:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: But the point is if sinani flipped blue by now you would know who the rest of the scumteam is!! And if he doesn't flip blue, then (potentially) scum has an extra KP. That would be terrible. Playing it safe was the right move, like I said earlier. | ||
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On April 02 2013 01:47 Oatsmaster wrote: OO basically said. 'Marv town, trust me *winkwink*' And he didnt have a detective role. He had a role where information gets given to him. Again really really really really vague. This is the key. He wasn't a detective, so he couldn't get a false positive on a GF. Kurumi told him something about the setup, presumably un-asked-for. So unless Kurumi is bastard modding, marv is confirmed town. | ||
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On April 02 2013 02:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Also assuming smurf has a gun, and is scum/town. why is the flipping world hasnt he shot it yet? Cause he doesnt have one. Because prplhz claimed the gun he gives makes the person a night vig, not an "anytime" vig. | ||
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On April 02 2013 02:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Prp.(He fakeclaimed the palmar kill) Hmm? | ||
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Maybe he is town and actually did shoot Palmar. Either prplhz shot Palmar, scum shot Palmar, or both did. 2/3 of those mean prplhz isn't fakeclaiming. But really, his posts around the flip read genuine. I don't remember his exact words, but it was something like "uh crap, I might have killed Palmar". Why would scum prplhz say that? It wasn't like he was in a particularly bad position at the time and needed to fake claim. | ||
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On April 02 2013 02:08 Oatsmaster wrote: fineeeeee So do we lynch siani first? or prp first? instead of smurf. Neither. We lynch Smurf today because we know he's scum and don't want him shooting townies. THINK for a second. Seriously. | ||
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On April 02 2013 02:12 Oatsmaster wrote: SO WHO IS SCUM THEN. Smurf, sinani, and either you or prplhz. We have enough lynches to lynch all 4 of you. | ||
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On April 02 2013 02:15 Oatsmaster wrote: you just said prp isnt scum Wtf dude. Also, I am as townie as hapa. why arent we lynching hapa? Where did I say that. Please quote it. And no, you are not as townie as Hapa. | ||
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On April 02 2013 02:23 Oatsmaster wrote: ?? it was like 5 minutes ago. And this definitively is a townread on prp. Also what makes hapa townie? That's not a town read on prplhz. That's a "I would lynch Oats before prplhz" read. Read my damn filter, I've been saying to lynch Sinani -> You -> Prplhz for quite a while. And everything about his play? THe claim that he took a hit, how completely different he is from Duel and Mario, how similiar he is to all his town games. If Hapa is scum this is literally the best game he has ever played, AND he got extremely lucky with the "I took a hit" claim. | ||
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On April 02 2013 02:32 Oatsmaster wrote: And you cannot apply that to my play? And what, exactly, do you think is in your play that makes you so extremely townie? Because I'm looking in your filter and I can't find it. In fact, I find some weird things, like this: On March 26 2013 23:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Like how I want to lynch SnB for a bad case and not smurf? deal with it. Do you have town reads on both of them? If not, then why arent you asking me what is differerent instead of insinuating that I am scum. There are lots of other things. You unexplicably bad town read on marv, your soft-defending Smurf on multiple occasions, how "hard" you kept questioning/prodding Acro but never actually had a read on him. All those things point to you being scum, not town. On April 02 2013 02:32 Oatsmaster wrote: How in the fucking world is this sentence not saying that you think that prp is town because of the reaction revolving around palmars death. I was asking you a question. It wasn't rhetorical. If you're so convinced that prplhz is scum, then tell me how it makes sense. I think prplhz is townier than you. If by some major fuckup, you do flip town, I would lynch prplhz. | ||
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On April 02 2013 02:53 Oatsmaster wrote: Read past scum and town games please keir. My point is that I look so different from LIX and newbie where I played scum, which is a metric you used to determine hapa's alignment. As well as Im assuming hapa's activity is the one that makes it the best scum game he has every played by a fuck ton if he is scum, which he probably isnt. Im sure he can make similar posts as scum. Again, the point is that I again, are way more engaged than in my scum games. You missing that is really really bad Kier. Really bad. Really lazy too. No Im telling you that that sentence is giving a TOWN read on prp. Not a townier than oats read, A TOWN READ. Imagine if I wrote it, what would you think my read on Prp would be? Its a question right? So you believe that scum prp wouldnt do it right? Isnt that a town/not scum read? Which I said earlier and you vehemently deined it. I haven't read your scum games. I haven't played with you as scum. I have said this before, but I almost never make meta reads for games that I wasn't a part of or intimately involved with, because meta is more than what was said, its about context and thread flow and sentiment. So yes, I am ignoring your scum meta, because I just don't have time or patience to go spend hours reading entire games to get a feel for how you were playing. And no, its not his activity that would make this the best scum game he has ever played. It's the fact that he's asking all the right questions, doing all the right analysis, and pushing all the right targets. His reads have agreed with mine for basically the entirety of the game except when he was pushing Sinani over Nisani after I claimed mason, and in hindsight it's very very likely that he was right there and I was wrong. (Although I wanted to lynch Smurf instead, but that wasn't happening, and I thought Nisani had a better chance of flipping scum than sinani). If Hapa is scum, he's literally hard bussed all of his teammates, which goes against everything I know about scum Hapa play. And about prplhz, I obviously still think there is a chance that he is scum. I was asking a question that needs a damn good answer before I would ever consider lynching him before you, though. So I'm going to stop arguing about this with you, because I have no idea where you're going with it. | ||
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I know. But just trust me, it doesn't quite work out that nicely. | ||
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Why not have prplhz give a gun to one of you, S&B, Hapa (?) tonight. Then tomorrow night, the one of you that has the gun can shoot Oats. Prplhz gives rayn a gun and kills him. That leaves only prplhz alive as "unconfirmed" on the last day. * isclaimer: it's not perfect because mafia could kill the one of you that prplhz gives the gun to tonight. But 66% chance to game over. | ||
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On April 02 2013 04:10 prplhz wrote: what if i kill one of you One of whom? | ||
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That makes this easy. | ||
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Well that settles that! | ||
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On April 02 2013 09:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sup guys? Oats is mafia. I assume you are saying this because Kurumi told you for certain that people you shoot receive a notification if they aren't killed? So one of the two of you is lying. I think its Oats, but marv seems to disagree. Either way, game is still pretty much over. | ||
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On April 02 2013 09:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: We lynch Oats after Smurf. prplhz can gun me the next night if Oats flips town. Problem solved. No. Prplhz gives a gun to one of marv/S&B/Hapa. We lynch sinani tomorrow. Tomorrow night prplhz shoots you and the person with the gun shoots Oats. Just like I said hours ago. | ||
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And we have enough KP/lynches to kill all the suspicious people. | ||
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On April 02 2013 09:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: And if i was scum i definitely wouldn't have shot Acro but Hapa instead. And i definitely would not have claimed but kept shooting Keir/Cora during nights as my team was already in a pretty bad spot. Think about it for a second. This is true. Assuming 4 scum and that rayn can instantly kill someone in his mason circle and still shoot someone else in the same night (which is what he's claiming and seems to be the case), the game would have been over at the end of last night had he shot Hapa instead of Acro and then shot one of me or Cora. 12/4 start 11/4 after grack death 10/4 after nisani lynch 9/4 after Palmar NK 7/4 after the 2 lynches 6/4 if rayn shot Hapa 5/4 if he then shot me or Cora 4/4 or 3/4 after night kills depending on scum KP. Or even if they couldn't have outright won, it would have made for a much different town right now. | ||
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On April 02 2013 03:52 Keirathi wrote: Oh, in a bit of an alternative: Why not have prplhz give a gun to one of you, S&B, Hapa (?) tonight. Then tomorrow night, the one of you that has the gun can shoot Oats. Prplhz gives rayn a gun and kills him. That leaves only prplhz alive as "unconfirmed" on the last day. * isclaimer: it's not perfect because mafia could kill the one of you that prplhz gives the gun to tonight. But 66% chance to game over.Why are we changing away from this now? | ||
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Bahhh. | ||
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How could Cora in any way have been sure that the shot was a mafia shot if you were the one that made the shot and you knew you were town? I mean, lets even assume that Cora was scum when you asked it, he would know that one of his teammates didn't make the shot. Marv is right, the question makes no sense in context of your role, assuming you are town. | ||
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I'll keep up from my phone until it comes back on, but phone posting sucks so I probably won't have big posts. | ||
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Oats or prplhz? | ||
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On April 03 2013 04:08 marvellosity wrote: The Keir/Cora stuff is free town-cred. Same with killing Acro, if the rest of your team is falling like cards and you need to be the last man standing. It might be free town cred, but its buying that towncred by being a retard. The game could/would be over otherwise. And even though this is the only game I've read of his, I just can't see him being a retard. | ||
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I'll go ahead and post this about rayn, since I already finished this section of my bigger post: rayn is the most dangerous of those 4 [un-"confirmeds"]. While I personally think that he is probably town, he by FAR has the most KP, assuming his role is true, which is at least partially verified. The caveat, however, is that his claimed role has a clearly defined purpose within this setup if he is town: The OP says that there is an eavesdropper (maybe multiple) in the mason circle. It would make a TON of sense to give town a way to find and kill off the eavesdropper(s). From a scum perspective, it just doesn't make sense though (besides being ridiculously super OP). If he's scum, he would have just insta-killed Grack and Hapa day 1 (or day 1 and day 2 if he can't insta-shoot twice on the same day). And he could have killed me or Cora n1. Nothing about the role, or how he's played it, makes sense from a scum perspective. Even as I write this, I just convince myself more and more that he's probably town. He would literally have to be playing the most retarded scum game ever to be scum. | ||
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On April 03 2013 04:14 marvellosity wrote: I would argue letting someone he knew was a vote-rigger rig a double lynch is pretty damn retarded To be fair, it's an extremely obscure role. Had I not had a super interest in the PYP games, I wouldn't have known what a vote rigger was either. | ||
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On April 03 2013 04:17 marvellosity wrote: the clue's in the name, broski Yes yes. It's a clue. But even you were wrong about how it worked (or rather, believed that the typical vote rigger role that I quoted was too OP to be possible, I guess?) On March 31 2013 04:14 marvellosity wrote: One other thing - it's my impression from Kurumi's last mod-note that you can't be lynched without a majority. So I guess Acro either gets lynched or no-one, unless his power is completely OP. Anyway, catch you all later. Any rayn "left" after he told us that Acro claimed vote rigger in the mason QT, so its arguable whether he saw my post or not. Anyways it's pretty irrelevant. Obscure role (that possibly has never actually been used on TL? I know its a possibility in most of the PYP games, but I couldn't find it ever being picked) in a situation that has never happened before. I wouldn't call him not shooting Acro retarded. A bad decision in hindsight, but what can you do? | ||
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But you're right, it doesn't matter | ||
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On April 03 2013 04:53 marvellosity wrote: Also Oats hasn't voted, hopefully he doesn't get modkilled :/ Neither has Smurf. TBH I was toying around with the idea of asking people to vote sinani today and playing to the Smurf modkill since he's obviously not coming back, and sinani is going to be the lynch tomorrow anyways. Only reason I didn't is because, assuming prplhz is telling the truth, then smurf has a gun right now | ||
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On April 03 2013 05:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: First of all, i did not know how his rig would work. Second of all, you had this information before the lynch. Why didn't you go screaming THE GUY WHO SHOT GRACK, IF YOU ARE TOWN YOU NEED TO KILL ACRO ASAP!!!! You are saying you knew he was sure mafia and should have been killed before the deadline. Why the fuck didn't you do anything to convince the guy who shot Grack (me) to shoot him in case it was not a one-shot vigi (which it clearly wasn't? This is a dumb argument. You hadn't claimed at the time. There was no reason to suspect that whoever had day-vigged Grack, if they were town, could day-vig again. And if they were scum, they obviously wouldn't want to. I asked myself the same question last night: "Self, when rayn said that Acro was a vote rigger, why didn't you just ask right then for someone to day-vig him if possible?" And the honest answer was because it just never crossed my mind as a possibility. | ||
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Oats why you not vote :o | ||
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On April 03 2013 06:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: this means you must give the gun to a vanilla town. I actually disagree at this point. He gives a gun to you. Yes, it sucks for you if you are town. But, you are by far town's biggest threat. And even with you dying, we'll still have 4 townies alive tomorrow to 2 scum (assuming you are town, of course). Which means we lynch sinani and prplhz and win. | ||
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rayn: You are shooting one of prplhz or sinani. I don't care which one, just pick one. prplhz: you are giving your gun to rayn. We're at 8 players alive, and (presumably) 6 town vs 2 scum. I absolutely believe that all of Hapa+marv+s&b+me+cora are town. Which just leaves sinani/prplhz/rayn. Even if rayn flips town instead of scum, that 100% gives us the scum team. We just have to have enough people alive to ensure that we live through the night, and I just don't see how scum could possibly have enough KP to kill off 4 people tonight (unless rayn is scum, ofc). | ||
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On April 03 2013 06:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: i can tell you if prplhz is giving a gun to me i won't be shotting him. Why not? If he is a secret mason and you both die, even better. You save us a bunch of time. | ||
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On April 03 2013 06:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: 6-2. Mafia kills 2 ppl. 4-2 You lynch one. 3-1 Mafia kills 2 ppl GG Your math is bad. 6-2 mafia kills 2 ppl. 4-2 You lynch one 4-1 mafia kills 2 people 2-1 gg. | ||
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On April 03 2013 06:31 Hapahauli wrote: No. We shouldn't have rayn shoot prplhz or vice versa or whatever the crap. We should arrange it so that Sinani gets shot. That way we don't waste a day, and in the mind-boggling event that Sinani flips town, we have 48 hours to work through things. We have no way to guarantee that sinani dies. He would *PROBABLY* die if prplhz targetted him, just because if he is scum, then the setup seems a bit weak with 2 scum goons. But we don't actually know that he has a power, and there haven't been any unaccounted for night actions (that I know of). | ||
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On April 03 2013 06:36 marvellosity wrote: Not sure it does seem that weak with 2 goons, remember Acro's role wasn't just a 2 scum -> 2 townie swing, the time it takes to lynch those mafia we would have lynched allows nightkills too. It's actually 2 scum 1 townie dead night 2 exchanged for potentially 3 dead townies through NKs, and 2 dead townies through lynch :/ I'm going to go out on a limb and say Kurumi didn't think through those implications when he gave the double lynch power and vote-rigger to separate people. But I do see your point. | ||
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On April 03 2013 06:40 Hapahauli wrote: Kei, just to confirm - it says explicitly in your role PM somewhere that Cora is a town mason right? Yes. 100%. | ||
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IF prplhz is scum, AND he's telling the truth about how his role works, BUT he lied about his target from last night and gave a gun to sinani instead of Smurf, then scum could possibly kill 3 people tonight. But if they do, then that means we lynch prplhz tomorrow instead of sinani (so that prplhz doesn't get ANOTHER blue snipe shot off), because we know that sinani is in fact a vanilla scum. | ||
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Follow my plan. It is our only chance of winning. rayn: you HAVE to pick one of sinani/prplhz and hope against all hope that one of them is an eavesdropper mason. | ||
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On April 03 2013 07:07 strongandbig wrote: you forgot and if scum have two "vanilla" in a game with this many town PRs That was implied with my later sentence | ||
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It's really odd to me how you bitched about prplhz giving a gun to Smurf instead of sinani: But the point is if sinani flipped blue by now you would know who the rest of the scumteam is!! But you're so staunchly opposing any plan that results in you dying, even though that directly tells the [b]WHOLE THREAD[/b[ who the rest of the scumteam is. | ||
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Which is why, if you are town, you need to be hitting one of prplhz/sinani and praying. | ||
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On April 03 2013 07:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: The only way i see mafia having 3 KP is if you tell prplhz to kill me, which ends up in losing a townie.. :E You're missing the point. If prplhz is scum and has been telling the truth about his role, he's probably going to use it tonight regardless. We have me+cora+hapa+you with "blue" claims. It really doesn't matter if he kills one of us, or you. But telling him who to kill means he has something to be accountable for. Killing anyone besides you proves that he's mafia, and killing you but you flip town ALSO proves that he's mafia. (* isclaimer: at least within a relative certainty. I still don't think any of Hapa/S&B/marv are scum).Literally the only scenario that prplhz isn't proven to be mafia is if he shoots you and you flip scum. | ||
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On April 03 2013 07:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: i will shoot marv if prplhz kills me. If you're town, then this is the fucking dumbest thing you've said all game. If you waste your shot on marv and we end up losing because of it, I will rage at you so fucking hard when the game is over. | ||
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On April 03 2013 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: What if prplhz has a gun right now and it's in fact sinani who is giving out guns, and he gives prpl the gun again? How exactly did sinani give prplhz a gun when he was roleblocked last night? | ||
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It's not about marv dying, its about shooting one of prplhz/sinani and hoping THEY are lying and are in the mason QT. There is literally a 0.0000001% chance that marv is scum. The chance that one of prplhz/sinani is lying is much higher than that. | ||
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On April 03 2013 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Blarf.. Srsly, look at my actions and my claim and see if they match. Then go on and tell me how there is a 0,0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance i am scum.. Really.. :/ Who cares? Its like baseball. You're pitching in the bottom of the 9th, up by 4 runs. The other team has the bases loaded, and the player at bad is on a hot streak with homeruns. You can either pitch to him, and possibly give up the game tyign homerun, or you can walk him which gives them an extra run, but brings up the next guy in the lineup who has never hit a homerun in his life. TL;DR - your role is the biggest threat to town. If you are scum, you could conceivably be killing 2 people BY YOURSELF tonight (or tomorrow night, or whenever you need to to ensure that the game ends), not counting any scum KP or abilities from your teammates. I might think that you are town, but 1) I am paranoid, and 2) i am not so much of an idiot to think that I have perfect reads. | ||
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Do you have any penalty for using you insta-kill shot on someone who isn't in your QT? | ||
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On April 03 2013 09:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think i can't do it, because it's only possible if they have claimed their identity. So even if i go: "Shoot Keir/Cora/prplhz/sinani/marv/s&b" it won't help anyways because even if they were in our mason QT they had not revealed their identity. Okay that's what I was asking. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 03 2013 08:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: You basically want to kill a townie instead of having someone prove they are mafia/town.. I can't believe you. Fine, lets talk about this point (for the sake of argument, we're going to assume that Lets say we tell prplhz to give a gun to marv. If he's scum (which if you are town, you should know that he's scum), he just uses the scum factional KP on marv. Marv never gets the gun, marv dies. How does this prove that prplhz is scum or town? You, prplhz, and sinani would all still be alive tomorrow. Or lets say he is town. He gives the gun to marv, and the scum *STILL* shoot marv. How do we know if prplhz is town or scum? So that idea doesn't work. Lets say we tell prplhz to give the gun to sinani: First off, there are 3 possible scum teams here: 1) sinani + prplhz 2) sinani + you 3) you + prplhz Now, in team 1, you have 3 possibilities: First possibility is that sinani is a vanilla goon, and prplhz does give him a gun. In whcih case, nothing happens, and all 3 of you are still alive tomorrow. How do we know if prplhz is scum or town? In this case, we would lynch sinani tomorrow to get rid of the gun, which leaves you and prplhz still alive, but only 1 lynch left How does the town know which of you is scum? LYLO with rayn and prplhz still alive. Second possibility is that sinani is a power role, so prplhz doesn't give him a gun. Prplhz holds his power but says he gave a gun to sinani, and all 3 of you are still alive tomorrow. We lynch sinani and he flips a power role, so we know that prplhz is lying. Third possibility is that sinani is a power role and prplz still gives him a gun. Sinani flips scum, and you and prplhz are still alive. We can't know which one of you us scum, but we can lynch both of you so it doesn't matter. Team 2) 2 possibilities. Lets say sinani is a vanilla goon, and prplhz gives him a gun. All 3 of you are alive tomorrow, and we lynch sinani. He flips goon. We don't know which one of the two of you are scum. In the meantime, you have 2 nights to go using all of your KP powers on town. Second possibility is that sinani is a power role. He flips power role tomorrow. Same situation as possibility 3 earlier, except you're scum this time, so you either have tonight to kill off all the masons, or you talk prplhz into getting lynched before you, then you kill off all the masons tomorrow night and win because of all your KP. Team 3) There's really only 1 possibility here. You insta-kill Hapa, You shoot one of me/Cora. Prplhz shoots the other, and you use faction KP to kill one of the remaining townies. 4 people dead, Game over. So out of 6 scenarios, 1 of them proves that prplhz is scum, 1 of them lets us kill all 3 of you, and 3 of them mean town loses. The last one comes down to LYLO with 2 un-confirmeds. ~40% chance for town to win. Now, for a little extra fun, lets say we tell prplhz to give the gun to you, and you die: Team 1) Confirms them both as scum. We hope there isn't a fuckton of KP, and lynch both of them to win. Team 2) Confirms sinani as mafia. Team 3) You and him would just go on a rampage. Exact same as the team 3 scenario up top. So in one scenario, town loses. In one of them, scum is confirmed, but the game comes down to night actions. In one of them town wins 100%. I would say...~60% chance for town to win, here. And lastly, lets say we tell prplhz to give the gun to you, and he doesn't: Team 1) This is the confirmed scumteam Team 2) Makes no sense for a town prplhz to not give you the gun if we tell him to. Discard. Team 3) Same as all the other Team 3 scenarios. So what do we learn from this little experiment? Well, first off, if the scum team is prplhz + rayn, the game is already over. But that would put the scum team with a multi-shot mason vig, a blue sniper, and a vote rigger. Insanely OP, and hardly logical. So the only real possibilities (that matter in any way) are the Team 1 and Team 2 scenarios. 2 of the 3 possible Team2 scenarios, town just flat out loses. The only possible way for town to win with Team2 is for prplhz to kill rayn tonight. Team1 scenarios get a little trickier. If we tell prplhz to shoot rayn, we 100% confirm prplhz's alignment based on what happens (if he kills rayn and rayn flips town, then prplhz has to be scum. If he refuses to shoot rayn, then prplhz has to be scum. If he kills rayn and rayn flips scum, then prplhz is town [because otherwise it would be a Team3 scenario, and he wouldn't have shot rayn and instead just won the game]). TL;DR - Directing prplhz's shot can't guarantee us the win, no matter who the shot goes to. But town's chance of winning (if we can't all decide with 100% certainty which of prplhz or rayn is scum), improves drastically by having prplhz shoot rayn instead of sinani. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 03 2013 10:24 prplhz wrote: i just don't want it to backfire so i'm hitting sinani. if you're scum then the game is for town anwyay, doesn't even matter if i'm lynched first. What? If he is scum and you are town, then scum wins 99.99999%. He can insta-kill Hapa. Kill me/cora. Factional KP. And you're giving sinani a gun so we HAVE to lynch him tomorrow. You don't even make sense. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 03 2013 10:39 prplhz wrote: he doesn't have 3kp because that's fucking bullshit. He already insta-killed Grack and Acro. Which means we know for a fact that he could still insta-kill Hapa (unless it was 2 shot only, which seems like a stretch because why would he have wasted his last bullet on Acro instead of Hapa if he is scum). And he already proved that he can shotcheck someone and insta-kill someone in the same night. (He shot Acro at the start of night 2, and then shot Oats at the end. Oats confirmed that he got a message about it). And of course there is factional KP. So why do you not believe that he has 3 KP if he is scum? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 03 2013 10:49 prplhz wrote: why will you die and not sinani i don't see this Because we don't know that sinani has a power. If you are town, you can't know whether sinani will die or not. Rayn has already proven that he has a role. Honestly I'm tired of arguing the exact same thing over and over and over again, and I'm tired of thinking about this game. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 03 2013 10:56 prplhz wrote: yea okay if scum team isn't sinani/rayn then screw it. On April 03 2013 10:59 prplhz wrote: just rayn's claim and actions seem weird if he's scum. These two things don't make ANY FUCKING SENSE TOGETHER. In the first quote, you obviously think rayn has to be scum. Then in the second, you don't think he is scum? So which is it, do you think he is scum or do you not? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Do they outweigh the reasons why me+Cora+Hapa+S&B+marv aren't scum? Because those are your only other choices. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 03 2013 11:13 prplhz wrote: i realize that in the very first line of my reasoning up there the one where i say "i don't know who else should be scum" Yes, you said that. But that doesn't show me that you're trying to figure it out. Words are wind. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Hapa: paraphrase your hit message from night 1. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 03 2013 12:34 Hapahauli wrote: Along the lines of... You were shot then healed. Okay. So yea, we follow my plan from earlier. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I honestly think we are in a 3 scum setup I'm 99.99999% sure that all of our "confirmed townies" are actually town. I'm 99% sure that sinani is scum. But what about rayn and prplhz? I'm not going to lie, I could sit down and almost certainly write a solid case about why either of them could be scum. But, gods honest simple truth of the matter is that I have a town read on both of them. Rather large town reads, all truth be told. Because as much as I could nitpick at little things they've SAID, their ACTIONS all point to townie. If either of them are scum they're just playing the silliest scum game of all time. Everything they've done points towards town. So what does that mean, Keir? It means we have 2 options. We can 99.9999% guarantee our chance to win by following my plan from earlier. Prplhz kills rayn, rayn shotchecks sinani. Then we lynch prplhz/sinani in order and win the game. Second option, assuming I'm right about 3 player scum team, is prplhz and rayn both gun for sinani tonight. Either game over tonight, or we lynch sinani tomorrow and game over then. The obvious downside to this approach is that if I AM wrong about only 3 scum, then we probably lose. It's up to you guys, really. But I figured I would throw it out there for people to think about, because this game is draining my sanity and I want to see it finished. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
' But, that requires every single person in the game to commit to the plan and not back down from it. For two extra full days because someone isn't voting for instant majority. If prplhz does kill rayn tonight, then we HAVE to lynch prplhz tomorrow because prplhz is the one with extra KP, and we won't be able to afford for scum to have 2KP again tomorrow night if prplhz is scum, and then lynch sinani on the last day. Which means another 5+ IRL days before this game ever ends. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 04 2013 01:35 marvellosity wrote: Fine, then we lynch prplhz first, whatever stop looking at the game if it's a problem, I'm not gambling the game away because you're too crazy to go do something else for a few days But it's so hard! My mind keeps pulling me back here when I try to go do something else! In all seriousness, I absolutely agree with you. I would play the "smart" way every single time. Not even sure why I brought it up, really. Just because I think I'm right I guess. It just makes more sense to play to 4 scum and then be happy when the game ends at 3 than it does to play to 3 scum and lose afterwards. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
:o | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Basically town is almost guaranteed to lose now if you shoot. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Yes. It is. Because you don't know what I know, but I can't say it because it does 100% guarantee that town loses. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 04 2013 03:15 marvellosity wrote: shut up already Kei Fine. I'm going to play terraria. I'll be back at deadline to see what happens. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
what a hells | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Remember me wanting to lynch s&b? Lol Anyways voting sinani. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 04 2013 06:49 marvellosity wrote: Are you lovers with Corazon, Kei? Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were asking S&B if he was lovers with Cora and I. Yes, Cora and I are lovers. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 04 2013 07:02 marvellosity wrote: ok, glad I guessed that right when you first mentioned it at least I've been giving hints a lot longer than that, sweetie <3 | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 04 2013 07:03 marvellosity wrote: I mostly stopped reading your posts after you claimed mason Well that's a shame! To be fair, I mostly stopped reading your posts too once I realized that Acro was scum. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 04 2013 07:04 strongandbig wrote: yeah no you guys made it pretty obvious Yes, it was obvious once I started telling marv that his plans wouldn't work. That was kind of the point | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
He's asking if we have hot mansex, ofc. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I honestly enjoyed this game a lot (should be evident...this is my second longest filter ever, second only to Chrono which lasted like 10 game days/3 weeks irl) despite the weird setup, and felt like it was easily one of my personal best games on TL. I do feel bad for rayn, though | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 05 2013 00:08 marvellosity wrote: yes, you were superb, especially from the end of Day 1 onwards. sorry for trying to lynch you <3 edit: Basically Hapa & Kei were town MVPs, s&b & I merely get some mention for using our roles pretty much optimally. It was just a misunderstanding. I had started writing up a post on why I wanted to lynch smurf, which would have ended with why I didn't want to lynch prplhz. But I kept commenting on things after I started it, and then was dragged into defending myself for an hour+. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 05 2013 00:19 marvellosity wrote: oh great irony, we'd probably have ended up lynching Smurf then. I would have given you more time but deadline was getting close >.< Your point made sense, it just didn't make me scum. I did act differently towards prplhz than Hapa did (IE, I didn't immediately unvote him), because I wanted it to look all nice and stuff. I was pretty sad that everyone just sheeped you and forced me into claiming though | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Edit: Oh yea, random thought. When Grack first flipped and had that line about masons in his role PM, 100% my first thought was some kind of mason-vigi. Yay vindicated! | ||
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