EPTThe Game [N]
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I'll try to keep the setup speculation brief, but we do have a small amount of information going in to this. We know that it is unlikely that there are more than two investigative roles based on the post in another thread. As such, investigative roles should keep this in mind. We also know that this game will likely contain several masons, based on the discussions from the mafia podcast. If a player like sandroba is masoning a newer player, I feel that he should be providing a pretty good reason for doing so. More often than not, a vet selects a newer player in order to manipulate them via pms. I'm certainly open to anyone that would like to mason myself. <3 VE, I'm totally going to form a rival scum hunting team that's going to destroy yours. On March 16 2013 22:28 GreYMisT wrote: First off, fairly busy today, so I'll be more active in around 5 hours. Second off: Stop doing this. There is no use in forming assumptions based off no fact at all. I disagree 100%. In fact, it was my favorite post in the thread so far. I find the easiest way to townhunt on day one is to look for players that are sharing the same train of thought as yourself. Before even reading this post, I was going to mention that we could try to take advantage of a claim at some point if we have evidence based on flips that evil sounding roles such as the Snake, Devil, or Nightmare are mafia aligned. I suggested something very similar in Chrono Trigger, and while it did not immediately pay off due to mafia fake claims, it put the mafia in a position where they had to claim a role that did not fit their character name. Most importantly, ThePeashooter seems to be trying to come up with a plan that benefits town, showing he likely has the town's best interest in mind. Upon first read, zarepath's reads seem ticky tacky at best. "I'm town" posts should be mostly ignored (Except mine. I'm totally town!). Even though last game, the players claiming town may have been scum, over a much larger sample size, it it pretty irrelevant. Suspecting Coag for joining VE's silly group seems like you want to post suspicious of someone, but you don't actually have anything to go with, so you provide a reason, without thinking to yourself whether its a single bit relevant. GoodKarma's post sounds like a generic, "I need to post, but I don't have much to say". On March 16 2013 23:48 Vivax wrote: ##Vote kitaman27 He be lurkin' Naw just sleeping, though I do assure you that learning to post while sleeping is an utmost priority. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 01:36 sandroba wrote: Kita, I love your post. And yes, I will join your team. Heading out, see you gents tomorrow. As long as tomorrow means tomorrow and not hour 46 of day 2.  | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: Regarding Grey: I asked about grey because I could find very little about his meta. I know he hosts many games, but he doesn't seem to have played in many. Best I can tell so far, he seems very detached from this game, posting often, but saying very little... Having a look at his meta would really help, if anyone happens to know a game he has actually played in (and not hosted) I would love to look at it. It's posts like these that set off alarms for me. Even if goodkarma doesn't know about the mafia database contining filter links to all his games, he certainly is aware of the search function. Rather than posting in the thread to tell people you want to look at his meta, why not actually research a past game, come to a conclusion and report back to the thread? It seems to me that you are more concerned about looking town, without doing the actual dirty work. Furthermore you are certainly capable of finding old games. You post a link to sandroba's old town game. So why is it that you are unable to find a GreYMisT game without posting in the thread about it? On March 17 2013 06:00 goodkarma wrote: Here's sandroba's filter for fruity mafia, a game where he was town: Fruity Mafia In addition, where exactly have you established a pro-town atomosphere? All I see is a post about lurkers and a response to VE's irrelevant scum hunting squad. You have overstated your contributions and even reply to Wiggles in an omgus manner. On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... You inform him that tunneling one read and lurking is scummy. He has hardly lurked with the game only being 18ish hours old and you tell him to pursue another scumread, while you yourself are unwilling to reveal a scumread yet, which seems like a double standard. I'm going to throw my vote your way to get things started. ##Vote goodkarma I'm also suspicious of GreYMisT. I'll wait to post about him until later since he promised a contribution when he is less busy today. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 06:50 Kenpachi wrote: I welcome myself to this marvelous game. ^^ Doesn't claim town, must be scum. ^^ | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 13:21 Vivax wrote: Yamato i think coagulation is not a good choice for d1 for reasons wf pointed out ...is this a scum slip? As far as I know, ThePeashooter's identity as Yamato is not public knowledge. Was it revealed at any point in the thread? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 18 2013 01:21 Vivax wrote: The "scumslip": I tried to guess TPS alignment, and it sounds a lot like (a townish) yamato, especially in the two posts after I voted for him. So I actually would like to know if it's really him since he didn't answer to me yet I think. I'm not too bad at guessing smurfs, I like to do that as either alignment (LX as reference for me doing it as mafia, LIX for town where I guessed marv correctly). I'm not really buying this explanation. When you addressed to him, you made it sound like a fact as if you knew he was yamato. If you were taking a guess, you could have said something like "hey, are you yamato?" or "This is yamato, isn't it?". Furthermore, TPS posts after you address him as yamato and he thinks nothing of it. If I'm playing a game and someone calls me someone I'm not, I'm going to be awful confused. Even though that happened 10 pages ago, you never brought it up again. TPS had ignored your "guess", yet you never followed up on it. If you were truly curious, why not mention it? You say that you "tried to guess TPS's alignment" and that you thought he was town, yet the previous post indicated that he was your number one scum read. Finally, how can you possibly come to a conclusion on a smurfs identity like that? When I see TPS's posts, I see some random player. I couldn't possibly guess who it was by the sample size you were given. ##Vote: Vivax | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 14:38 GreYMisT wrote: Perfect, I was waiting for this! Does anyone else but me find this post odd? let me tell you why you should. First off. I have contributed about 0 things this game. Zilch. Nada. So much so that it honestly should be a null/leaning scum tell on me. Especially considering I have not been around for the last few hours or so. Its not like im spamming or trolling, I have been a non presence. Now normally this would be an OK pressure vote, if thats what this was. HOWEVER, he says that I am his number 1 scumread (he's willing to put a vote on me), saying that I have had ample opportunity to contribute, and am MORE than a lurker. This doesn't make sense. You were "waiting for this"? So are you saying you were setting a trap, being afk without contributing anything, and then when someone calls you out about it, you're going to pounce on them? How do you distinguish between a pressure vote and a real vote anyways? At that point it seemed quite reasonable to vote for you, I was considering it. I still think it would be reasonable to vote for you. So say I voted for you, rather than the guy leading the lynch vote. Would I have fallen for your "trap"? I find this scummy. As for goodkarma, I haven't moved my vote because I was sastisfied with his response. I am still leaning scum on him, though with GreYMisT and goodkarma going after each other, I'm not sure if they are trying to create distance or one of them is actually town. I think Vivax is a more sure bet however, based on the slip early. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 18 2013 02:51 Vivax wrote: Regarding this: I wanted to know if the guy is yamato cause if he is, I'd give him a townread (Feeling sure he was at that moment). If you go look, my read on him changed after his two big, abrasive posts (go look them up with the # at my post), where I assumed he was yamato cause yamato has an extensive work schedule and posts like that towards people who accuse him often. Kita, can you look at my cases regarding sandro, cosmic and DYH before jumping to conclusions and tell me what you agree and disagree with? sandroba is afk, which he does nearly 50% of the time, as both alignments. He did try to buddy me early on, but that was the last we heard from him. DrH said he had a reasonable excuse, so I'm willing to ignore him as null until his replacement comes in. Your post on cosmic is reasonable. I do agree that the topics he feels relevant enough to comment on are quite weak. There are far more interesting things to discuss that he has ignored. I'm not following what you're saying about DYH. Maybe you can explain what you are referencing. I did go back through all of your games in your profile, but I couldn't find any post where you have "guessed" at a smurfs identity before, like you did here. I was worried about your first post already when you started talking about "consolidate your posts" and "spoiler quotes" as this stuff isn't really helpful unless its post game advice and it seems like you were trying to make yourself town. This had me a moderate scum read even before the yamato post. I'm still considering goodkarma though, so I'll have to reread the thread once more before coming to a decision. I would like to hear from TPS about the whole yamato situation as well, whether he confirms or denies it and why he ignored it the first time. On March 18 2013 03:17 Coagulation wrote: well not really but considering the slip would indicate that they are both scum and peashooter is my other best read so far the theory fits at any rate. goodkarma isnt really popping out to me. want me to read his filter? testsubject is same nothing comes to mind. If TPS is your strongest read and the scumslip would indicate that are both scum, why vote for vivax over TPS? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 15:42 goodkarma wrote: My case against you revolved around you contributing nothing when you were there. This is something that made you stand out to me over the lurkers. The last few hours, however, you have made it clear you have an active interest in the game which invalidates my original case points against. On March 18 2013 05:18 goodkarma wrote: Regarding Grey: I really like ryu's case on Grey. With Sandroba being replaced, and these new valid concerns being brought up regarding Grey's posting history, I'm changing my vote back to Grey.: ##Unvote ##Vote: Grey I would ask in the next few hours we find two candidates to consolidate our votes between. As of right now, we're kind of spread everywhere, which is poor form this close to the deadline. These two posts seem to contradict each other. You initially found GreYMisT scummy, but then you changed your mind, thinking he has an active interest in the game. Now, you're back onto GreYMisT, without addressing your previous town read on him. Is he no longer interested in the game? What in particular about Ryu's case do you agree with? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
There does seem to be a heck of a lot of pushback on goodkarma though. There were quite a few players that all seemed to agree he was suspicious, yet there are only a couple of votes on him at the moment. Unfortunately, being awake for the 3AM deadline when I have to get up at 6AM isn't an option. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 18 2013 12:21 geript wrote: Sidenote: how do you find the games someone's been in? Just by manually looking into all the games or is there another way? You could try using this. It doesn't include games finished in the last month though. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=390080#2 | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:43 sciberbia wrote: Kitaman, do you have an opinion on zarepath? Like I mentioned earlier, I think his first big post was more of a "post for the sake of posting" than anything actually meaningful. I am bothered by his swap to GreYMisT, after failing to mention him at all earlier than the day. Between the two, I'm sticking with GreYMisT though. Time for bed. Hope to start the work week off with a scumflip. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Then you'll have to avenge me...unless we both die. -_- | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 19 2013 17:09 Ace wrote: Why would you claim Vet though as Town? Even if the Scum clearly know they shot you, they have no idea how the hit failed. Roleclaiming serves no purpose here. To be clear, are you inferring that you believe VE isn't town because a town VE would have no reason to claim vet or are you lecturing VE for a poor decision? Unless someone else claims a hit, I see no reason to doubt the hit with only one flip. Keirathi could have been a doublestack, but its pretty unlikely. Unless VE is still around 5 cycles from now I imagine the claim will take care of itself. On March 19 2013 12:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Kita what do you think of BH this game? TELL ME THE TRUTH!!! *hexhexhex* I'll get back to you after I get a chance to read through the logs. If I don't, remind me. I'm having trouble looking for a post if someone recalls it. There was a player who posted a bunch of links to a past game, without commenting on the content. I looked 3 times through the thread and couldn't find it, so I might just be crazy, but I was hoping to see if they ever followed up with it. @TPS. If you can confirm/deny your identity as yamato, I believe it will give me a clue to your alignment based on one of your earlier posts and it is something not related to the Vivax guess. If you are town, you would surely be willing to reveal this small piece of information. I'll come up with a much larger post tonight when I actually have more time, without getting interrupted every 3 minutes. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
WaveofShadow The first player I'd like to bring up is WaveofShadow. Whenever I try to look at a player, the most important thing to look at in my opinion is motive. During the first few cycles of a game, it can be quite difficult to differentiate a townie post and a mafia post. The easiest way to tell the difference is to ask yourself, what is a player trying to accomplish with these posts and what does this player care most about. When I read through the filter of Wave, I can't help but notice that he is much more willing to play through others, than to put himself out there. On numerous occasions, we can see him prodding other players with questions, but there has been very little follow through. He questions other players reads, but fails to come to significant conclusions. Wave has approached the first two cycles in a way that shows me that he has little interest in being the guy that gets a player lynched. He is more interested in selecting a bandwagon based on the arguments of other players. In his support for the day one lynch, he posts the following: On March 18 2013 04:16 WaveofShadow wrote: I CAN, however get behind a vote on DP. I support VE's case though I do not necessarily support his town circle; call that scummy if you wish but having never seen one in a game before I have no idea of their risks or benefits and it just seems manipulative to me. Vote: Darthpunk This is the first time in the game he actually mentions Darthpunk. He states in a single line that he supports VE's case, yet provides no reasoning for why he agrees. Notice how defensive he gets with his vote. In reference to his disapproval of VE's circle he states "Call that scummy if you wish." At a point where he has selected his preferred lynch candidate, he is still spending more time discussing VE's completely irrelevant circle. For the sake of keeping this post legible, I've edited out the previous part of this quote, but he spends a whole paragraph discussing the deal with yamato. Why is it that he is spending more time discussing events not relevant to his scumread, than the actual vote itself? It would be one thing if VE's case was so convincing that he had nothing to add. However, when I ask myself, does he care about this lynch, I come to the conclusion that he does not. On March 18 2013 12:00 WaveofShadow wrote: I can also see it isn't likely that DarthPunk is goin' down but I want a chance to re-read before changing anything. I remember thinking that zare isn't scum but I don't remember why. DarthPunk is his preferred lynch candidate, but at this point he has put absolutely no effort in pushing his selection. He is more than willing to comment on unrelated issues, but when it comes to the part of the game that should be most relevant, he shows little interest. This post shows me that his scum read is influenced by whether or not he believes the town views it as a viable lynch. When a mafia player selects a bandwagon, they often due it based on where the town's sentiment lies. Once he realizes that DarthPunk isn't going to get lynched, he backs off, simply stating that he has responded well to pressure. On March 17 2013 05:19 WaveofShadow wrote: No excuses here, but of the people I know in this game, very few have posted thus far so I can't read much into meta On March 18 2013 13:18 WaveofShadow wrote: My meta reads are overall fairly weak thus far into my mafia career though so I'm not yet comfortable lynching zare based on that evidence. On March 18 2013 04:16 WaveofShadow wrote: Meta reads are going to be something I will not be very good at until I play quite a few more games with all of you guys, so I can't look back at Yamato and try to find out if Vivax's claim is legitimate. On March 18 2013 23:17 WaveofShadow wrote: My meta reads are very weak as I have stated earlier. Back to my point about his "defensive" phrasing of his vote, he has been acting quite defensive during the first two cycles. While a town player plays with confidence, Wave seems quite careful with his actions and is quite concerned with other's view of himself. Look how important it is to him for others to realize his meta based scum-hunting skills are sub-par. On four different occasions he makes this statement. On March 18 2013 22:50 WaveofShadow wrote: It's also nice how everyone is going to be real fucking quick to jump down my throat thanks to GM randomly naming me before he dies (multiple times) without anything to back it up. I love how just like in LX I get ignored half the game and no one responds to anything I say, and as soon as somebody randomly decides to point fingers at me suddenly the whole fucking thread is up in arms. (Expletives deleted, don't want DrH yelling at me), I'm lone wolfing this game. In response to suspicion, he reacts quite strangely. Look how worked up he gets when GM names him as a scum read. There is essentially no pressure or votes on him at this point, yet he is responding as if he is about to be hammered. On March 18 2013 23:17 WaveofShadow wrote: But please, by all means keep it coming and tunnel me instead of hunting for real scum. It's not like this is a distraction or anything from the real point of the game. On March 19 2013 03:28 WaveofShadow wrote: Wat. GL with that. And as for responding to post-flip pressure, it just pisses me off that I don't get listened to at all on certain days; people only tend to pay attention to me when they think I'm scummy which has been...let's see....NEVER. These are more examples of how important it is to him that he is seen in good light. Note how he has spent more time talking about his annoyance of getting suspected, than he does about DarthPunk earlier. His vote of GreYMisT also occurred at a time where GreYMisT was suspicious of him. On March 19 2013 03:34 WaveofShadow wrote: Haha wow I guess I really do have to be more careful what I post in these games...I make mistakes wayy too often that get seen as scummy. I guess it's good that people are pointing this shit out 'cause I didn't notice, and eventually I'll stop fucking myself over with these mistakes. I dunno, not much to say about that. I'll blame it on lack of sleep due to 3 month old baby. Finally, I come to this post which is what caused me to look at him further. Look how squirmish he is in his response. This is at a point where he accidentally mentioned to a lynch, rather than a night kill. It was a 100% typo and a non-issue. Yet here is his talking about how his has to be more careful about not making mistakes and coming up with more excuses. Wave has show that he cares more about himself, than town. He is willing to share opinions on less important issues, while skimping in pushing town objectives when it comes to the lynch. He responds in a mafia manner to suspicion and posts with an attitude that lacks the look of a town player. I think he would make an excellent lynch today. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I had a town read on VE prior to the claimed hit, due to the interest he seemed to put into the game on day one and I see little reason why claiming a hit should change things. There shouldn't be two votes on him and discussing him today is wasting time that could be diverted to other individuals. The notion of BH posting fake logs is silly. As someone who has posted created fake logs in the past, they take hours and hours to fabricate. At this point in the game, you gain very little town cred for a set of mason logs between two players that haven't flipped. I don't understand why people think he would take a post from his mafia quicktopic and copy it into his mason quicktopic. We know that quicktopics are provided for masons, so if that were the case, there would be no reason to fabricate logs. GK and BH could have simply used the quicktopic to create a conversation between two mafia members. The logs posted seem legit and look like they correspond to each player's thought process in the actual thread. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 20 2013 09:19 Vivax wrote: Well I read it right now but frankly I developed the feeling he is town, I find others way scummier than him and WoS is a newbie so I understand him being defensive, dunno why he rides so much on not knowing how to metaread though. Being defensive is a newbie scum trait, so I don't think that really plays much of a part. This is his 5th or 6th game though, so he should be more than capable of pushing a case. In one of his early posts he mentions how he would rather not provide a scum read until he is prepared to develop a strong case. It's 100+ hours and 60ish pages into the game and he still hasn't done so. On March 20 2013 09:19 Vivax wrote: Kita don't you feel my Zarepath, GK and cosmicomics cases are good? I feel they are the strongest ones and I will likely not let go of those reads. I still have 2 wildcards currently occupied by Layabout and BH but TPS and glurio would fit in there too. As I mentioned on day one, I believe GK's play has been scummy. He is a player I'm considering providing a more detailed case about. Zarepath is also a player that doesn't look town, but I'm not sure I feel as strongly as with the previous two reads. I'm having trouble deciding whether cosmicomics is pushing mafia objectives or if he is just a misguided townie that is lost somewhere in left field. I'm concerned with the apathy displayed by players like Wiggles and to a lesser extent because he just subbed in, Ace. I'd expect these players to take more of an initiative if they cared about the lynch, but it seems like they are playing reactionary currently. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 20 2013 09:41 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and kita, cute case. I defy you to go through my meta and find something I've done differently this game than any of my others. I have never once lied in a mafia game thus far and have never been anything but town, including this game. Vivax already gave you one of my typical defenses; hell I'll even add to it to attempt to appease you. I write up a case against you and your response is that you've never lied? Where am I calling you a liar? My case is that you show no interest in pushing a lynch. Even with this post, you ask "who are the lynch targets"? A town player decides a lynch target and pushes it on other players. A mafia player looks at the bandwagons and selects his favorite. I don't need another player to defend you. I'd like a response from yourself on the issues I mentioned. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 20 2013 09:45 WaveofShadow wrote: I think I am comfortable enough to vote Wiggle right now though because he really just doesn't appear to give a shit. Vote: Mr. Wiggles This is exactly what I'm referring to. Just minutes earlier you posted about how you wanted to know who where the lynch candidates in order to determine who to look at. Now you're voting Wiggles with a one line explanation. You clearly couldn't have taken the time to read through the filters of the players you just asked about. So why is it that you are voting based on town sentiment, rather than finding a player that you believe is scum and explaining to everyone why you believe this is the case. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 20 2013 09:48 WaveofShadow wrote: I'd like to think I've at least attempted to justify my jumping on said bandwagons when I vote. I might have to call you a liar now. Your explanation on the DarthPunk vote was: On March 18 2013 04:16 WaveofShadow wrote: I CAN, however get behind a vote on DP. I support VE's case though I do not necessarily support his town circle Your explanation on the GreYMisT vote was larger, but at that point you were preaching to the choir, as you were the 12th person on him. There was nobody to convince at that point. On March 20 2013 09:45 WaveofShadow wrote: I think I am comfortable enough to vote Wiggle right now though because he really just doesn't appear to give a shit. Vote: Mr. Wiggles And here is your explanation of the wiggles vote, aided by a few other one liners about how he is lazy. On March 20 2013 09:53 WaveofShadow wrote: I could of course go into more detail if you wish, but then you'd still just call that voting based on town sentiment. Of course I would like you to go into further detail. Calling yourself town doesn't convince other players that you are town. Posting a case and pushing a lynch is what does that. I spent 2 hours reading the thread and another hour on my case against you. You look like you've sent 3 minutes deciding who to jump on. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 20 2013 10:13 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Kita, what do you think of WoS' flip on his reads? He goes from being super-sure that Zarepath is scum and saying I'm his strongest town read, even baiting Zare into saying I'm scum to call him scum again, to wanting to lynch him as the day started, to agreeing with him, when all he did was reiterate the same stuff he said about me last night. So his read on him goes from scum -> town, and the last thing he's saying about him, is that something he did looks scummy. As for me, he's saying I'm town, and then that I'm scum, when all that happened is I made two posts at night, where I said I wasn't going to post reads, and was inactive for a while. His reads did a complete 180s, and the flips happened in line with what's popular at the time. Since I made it pretty clear what I thought about his alignment, I'd be much more interested listening to what you had to say, rather than justifying it for you. Do you have a mafia read on Wave? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 20 2013 10:21 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol. I have had to defend myself against accusations like this every single game I've been in. Guess what the outcome has been EVERY SINGLE GAME. How is your alignment in past games relevant at all? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 20 2013 10:20 VisceraEyes wrote: I've got another visitor to my PM box. "The Mirror" has masoned me now. No indication as to what player it is, and the QT is empty aside from me trying to get acknowledgement from whomever it is. I'm so sick and tired of being a pivotal piece in these games while simultaneously being ignored by half the players. X( Seems to me like that seems more like a mafia mason. A role where a player can influence another player without revealing their identities. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
 | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I have no clue what VE is doing. The part that doesn't match up with the thought process of a town player is that if VE was truly trying to out the mirror's identity to the thread, he wouldn't immediately break off contact. What's the point of "fake" joining to learn the mirrors identity, if you stop talking to him the moment you try to gain his trust. I'd support Wiggles or GK as an alternative, but I don't have the couple hours I'd need to put a case together and push a lynch at the moment. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 21 2013 09:07 WaveofShadow wrote: Kita, fuck re-evaluating, I viewed you as town after your case last night. What are your thoughts on being wrong? lol would you like an apology? It's one of those things that solves itself. If I was wrong, then it will be evident if you end up dead tomorrow. If you're still alive then you're probably a mafia rolecop and I'll push for your lynch once again. I find it quite unlikely that the mafia team would be willing to leave you alive with a second check in hopes that you would be mislynched. There would be too high a risk for a red check and a 1:1 trade. As for today's lynch, Wiggles needs to get in here and tell us who he is voting for. He obviously shouldn't still be voting you, based on the reasons I just mentioned. I want to hear who he wants to lynch. I'd be willing to vote for him if we have the votes. Any response to my question VE? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 21 2013 11:08 Mocsta wrote: WoS.. im still catching up on the thread, so am unfamiliar with why wiggles could be scum.. can you please provide some links to posts, i will prioritise reading them now. (im not even sure who has built cases on him, other than I think you?) His filter is quite small. It shouldn't take much time to read through the entire thing. I'm swapping my vote to him since he doesn't seem to care at all about what happens tonight. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 21 2013 22:37 WaveofShadow wrote: I kept my vote on GK but if you read my rationale it was the TPS case that put me over the age on saying Ace was probably a good lynch. WARNING: CONSPIRACY THEORY + Show Spoiler + I worry that TPS is 3rd party and not confirmed town. There is no way scum would have known to frame him/change his alignment but 3rd party would be consistent with his staying out of the spotlight for 2 days and coming back just in time to post an absolutely massive case on Ace just like Wiggles did, AND would probably have some sort of anti-check power. I like his case much more than Wiggles,' and it made an Ace lynch much clearer so this is NOT something I am sure of by any means, but keep an eye on him after I die, k guys? How in the world could TPS be 3rd party?! You yourself said that you received his alignment was town from your alleged dt check. Do you or do you not receive alignment with your check? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 22 2013 03:25 WaveofShadow wrote: I have my target for tonight chosen already though I'm unsure how to go about letting you guys know who it is in case I die or don't? I'll have to think about it. No, that's something you keep yourself. Telling us only opens up the target to a potential mafia framer. It doesn't matter who you check if you die because you'd be dead. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Wiggles should be priority number one tomorrow. When so many people believe he is scum, yet he is allowed to live, something is certainly wrong. Last cycle, people were hedging their bets by committing to a scum read so they can look good when he flips, but refusing to actually kill him off. Something of note is that he never actually mentions Ace the entire cycle until he gets to the time of his case. Rather than post the case earlier in the day, he waits until the last few hours of the cycle at a point where Ace has no way to respond. On March 21 2013 13:15 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I said it before... Wiggles case reads nice and all but if ace is scum.. hopless1der is scum. I want to see why hopeless1der is scum.. cos id ont recall anyone having him as a scum read. Why do I have to do that? Regardless of how hopeless1der played, I read Ace as scum based on his own play since he replaced in the game. If I go back and look at Hopeless1der, I'm just going to end up with an analysis riddled with confirmation bias anyways because I already think Ace is scum. I don't see how it's useful to my case against Ace.[/QUOTE] This should set off plenty of flags for people. Hopeless made up 50% of the posts made by the duo, but he is absolutely ignored in the analysis. In his response, he downplays the importance of his filter and states that it would only be ruined by confirmation bias. It makes no sense to take a look at half of the picture and then decide you've already made up your mind so you're not interested in the second half. My other two strongest scum reads right now are goodkarma and TranceStorm. While Wiggles needs to be lynched, we should still pressure these two individuals so we have something to go by going into day four. I'll write up a case for them this weekend. Mafia + March Madness = No free time for Kita Go Orange ^_^ | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Just spent an 45 minutes going through his filter. BH so spammy -_- I think TestSubject, VE, greipt, and TPS all come off looking townie based on the interactions he had with them in the thread, although I don't think these guys would be in the discussion as mafia anytime soon anyways. He references Wiggles several times how he is suspicious of him and will potentially write a case against him, but it never happens. Rather than pushing wiggles as mafia last night cycle, he attacks the players that sided with Wiggle's Ace case, VE in particular. Something to note is that even though Wiggles was one of his main reads, he never actually voted for him...bouncing between TestSubject and VE. ##Vote Mr. Wiggles I'm planning on working on the Personality Mafia writeup tonight, which I imagine will take me a while. If it takes less than a couple of hours, I'll start looking into the remaining mafia suspects, otherwise I'll get to that tomorrow. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
In response to Wiggles, you act as if I just decided to switch over to GreYMisT without mentioning him at all. I expressed a scum read on him several times, but of course you choose to ignore this. I was the first one to attack him for his "trap" when he returned to the thread and you referenced my questioning of this trap several times yourself in your own decision to vote GreYMisT so surely you should remember this. Rather than respond to any of the reasoning I've brought up against you, you decide to quote a few one-liners at a point where I had worked a 12 hour day and had no free time. Now, rather than voting your strongest scumread, you've decided to push the only alternative for your own survival. The reads you provide are non-specific, something I'd expect from a mafia player who is about to flip, but doesn't want his reads to be used against him. Not much more to say here. For tomorrow, someone I think we should be looking at is glurio. To start the game, he posts suspicion against coag, stating that coag is useless, without actually calling coag scummy. On March 18 2013 03:16 glurio wrote: I don't think he's scum. I'd much rather lynch you, you're absolutely useless so far. How about spending the time scumhunting? On March 18 2013 03:46 glurio wrote: On a different note: i really want to lynch coag. Rather than actually voting for coag, he votes for DP, a player he never actually mentions in the thread. It's not like DP was more of a lynch-able candidate as there were only 2 votes on him. During the first cycle, he never actually mentions GreYMisT, which is significant considering he was the main lynch candidate for the day. He soft defends BH, without actually providing a reason why he doesn't have a scum read on him. With the day two vote, he votes for Mocsta as the lone vote. At no point in the cycle does he try to convince others to vote Mocsta, only that he was going with his "gut". After the BH flip, he explains how BH's interaction with Wiggles is scum-to-scum conversation, yet decides to vote cosmicomics. On March 23 2013 02:17 glurio wrote: Well i feel like no one bothers to read my posts this whole game, so i was a bit pissed. I'm certainly open for discussion. Glurio complains that no one listens to him, but on day one and two there was actually nothing to listen to. How are we supposed to be convinced by his posts if his only explanation is his gut? Overall, Glurio feels like an observer this game, looking to stay under the radar and lacks the town motivation to push a lynch. It seems that he cares more about survival and doing his own thing, voting for players that have no chance of being lynched. He would be a good lynch candidate tomorrow. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I disagree with your assessment of him kenpachi and I ask that everyone take a good look at his filters. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:34 cosmicomics wrote: Upon review I am fine with lynching either GreYMisT or zarepath (his latest post really throws me off). Gonna go with GreYMisT because zarepath will quickly expose himself if he is indeed scum. ##Vote: GreYMisT Notice how he isn't voting GreYMisT after explaining why GreYMisT is scum. He is voting GreYMisT because "zarepath will quickly expose himself if he is indeed scum". This reason for voting GreYMisT has nothing to actually do with GreYMisT. On March 23 2013 02:34 cosmicomics wrote: All there is to say about Mr. Wiggles has already been said. Vote Mr.Wiggles Now lets take a look at his day three vote. He references a single post by BH and throws down his vote. Wiggles was probably the single most talked about player this game and this is actually the first time cosmic brings his name up. Again, he doesn't actually bring any evidence to the table, he simply jumps on board with the cases that others have presented. Now onto the important part, his day two push on VE. This is a classic example of the chainsaw defense and I expect it to get a lot of discussion during post game. For those unfamiliar with the chainsaw defense, its a common mafia tactic where you defend your scum buddy by attacking their attacker. cosmic's case against VE: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: I don't understand why we are scrutinizing Wade Fell and not even glancing over at VisceraEyes. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: ]There should be absolutely no issue with Wade Fell defending whom he thinks is a town read, unless VisceraEyes suspects that both goodkarma and Wade Fell are scum, and that Wade Fell is defending goodkarma using fabricated evidence. Nothing in VisceraEyes' case indicates that he believes this, so there is no town alibi for saying this. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: You don't say that someone makes an excellent point, and then totally ignore it when evaluating their play. But that is what VisceraEyes tries to do. He sweeps away something that he himself called "an excellent point" and misconstrues Wade Fell as wasting all his time D1 defending goodkarma, which isn't even scum indicative as his posting shows. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Therefore, the magnitude of VisceraEyes' misinterpretation is greater for he is a hypocrite in saying that Wade Fell did nothing, when he himself asserts that Wade Fell made an excellent point. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Again, more misinformation. Here VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell's usage of the mason role is indicative of him being scum. He asserts that the mason role should be used to determine alignment first and foremost. Well that's blatantly wrong. There is nothing wrong, and in fact there is something very valuable with masoning a town read in order to bounce around thoughts and ideas. Wade Fell himself explains his mason choice: On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: How is that not a sensible response? It helps Wade Fell solidify his read on goodkarma, and also helps direct goodkarma's scumhunting as Wade Fell acted as his coach. There is very good townie motivations to mason a town read. However VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell used his role poorly and therefore must be scum. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Ok. VisceraEyes' hypothesis is that Wade Fell is a scum mason trying to manipulate townies. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: What VisceraEyes is doing is calling both goodkarma and Wade Fell scum, and using "town goodkarma" as evidence of Wade Fell scum. Only scum do this. This entire attack of VE is essentially a defense of BH, explaining that VE is mafia because he is misrepresenting the posts of a town. His attacks on VE are based on BH being town, but it's as if he has already made up his mind about this. He fails to strongly consider that BH could be mafia and this case is too confident to be pushed by a town player. Now I want to make the single most important part of my case. *IMPORTANT* VisceraEyes claims vet at the beginning of day two on page 54. cosmic does not address the vet claim until the very end of the cycle on page 122. From a town mindset, the single strongest reason for VE not to be mafia is the fact that there was 1 kp on night one, VE claimed the hit, and VE claimed veteran. If I'm going to push VE, I'm most certainly going to accuse VE of lying about the hit and explaining what happened to the missing mafia kp. Instead, he selectively ignores it. This is proof that cosmic was presenting a biased case against VE. He didn't care about VE's alignment, he only cared about the parts of the case he could use to prove that VE was scum. On March 21 2013 03:27 cosmicomics wrote: The most simplest explanation to this whole ordeal is that VisceraEyes is scum, jumping around from target to target to see who will latch without meaningful contribution, made up the 3P business up to sidetrack the town even more, especially since we are deep into D2 without too much consolidation after WaveofShadow claimed. VisceraEyes is scum and making crap up The simplest explanation to this whole ordeal is most certainly not that VE is scum. That would mean that the mafia had withheld their kp or double stacked their shots, VE would fake-claim a hit, and VE would fake-claim a vet. Going into day two, VE was not under so much claim that he required such a drastic move. On March 22 2013 06:57 cosmicomics wrote: Therefore if the night actions suggest that VisceraEyes' claim is indeed valid, then I swallow my pride because it is more likely that VisceraEyes is playing funky than it is for scum to sacrifice one of their KP to fakeclaim vet, and we get down to lynching goodkarma and unfolding things from there. At the end of day two, cosmic finally concedes that it is more likely that VisceraEyes is playing funky than it is for scum to sacrifice one of their KP to fakeclaim vet. Yet, at the end of day two, cosmic is still voting VE in a lynch that was decided by one vote. So why did this reasoning apply when VE was about to get lynched, but not apply moments later? Because it fitted his agenda. If he wanted to get GoodKarma lynched, he would need a abandon his views on VE. Finally, take a look at how cosmic responded to my views of suspicion on him. On March 25 2013 12:50 cosmicomics wrote: Oh yea, upon review I think kitaman27 is scum and I would be glad to duke it out with him tomorrow. He won't be dead (cuz he scum) and I won't be dead (because scum don't shoot potential mislynches). Sorry about the multi-posts. Thinks just came to me as I was reviewing things and I didn't want to lose the thoughts. At no point in the game had he mentioned suspicion of myself. Not once. Now an hour after I mention my intentions to get him lynched, he suddenly had a revelation that pointed to me being scum. He knows the only way to defend himself is to attack me and responds with a textbook omgus. I'm so confident about this one that I'd be willing to offer myself in a 1:1 trade. cosmic is scum Please read through and post your thoughts on this case. We can't have a cycle of inactivity like yesterday. I plan to address glurio, the next time I have the opportunity to post. I still have a mafia read on him. I actually agree that layabout is likely one of the remaining scum as well. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: It's very subtle isn't it? He shifts attention away from the whole VisceraEyes / Wade Fell by "letting mafia deal with them". He implants the idea into town that it is very "silly" to look into these two suspects, and that the night actions will resolve the whole issue. The bolded part shows his intent to push the focus away. So many other things to look at? Why is the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes situation something not worth looking at / trying to figure out? Why does he work to take not only his attention, but the rest of town's away from the issue onto a new topic in WaveofShadow? Guess what, the night actions did take care of the situation. You don't mislynch a claimed vet, the cycle after they claim a hit, especially when a kp is not accounted for. WaveofShadow was my top scum read, I researched and posted a case, and pushed the lynch. There is nothing here to attack me for. On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: Now, let's do a comparison case to the glurio case. Absolutely no follow up. No effort into convincing people, no effort to get opinions out of people, no effort to push the wagon. What's the difference? There isn't a pressing need to take attention off of a teammate like in the case of Wade Fell. There is only the need to maintain the image of scumhunting. Look how cosmic is taking my play 100% out of context. Wiggles was my preferred day three lynch. I posted the case on glurio because I'm trying to generate additional content, not because I'm trying to push a glurio wagon. It wouldn't make sense to try to get glurio lynched, when Wiggles is my target. But of course he knows this. As I stated earlier, I'll address glurio today, but you are currently my primary lynch target. You attack me for bringing up a second person on day three while I continue to scum hunt, but where were you to push a lynch on day three? You were completely absent from discussion. On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: Not only that, but as glurio perceptively points out kitaman27 isn't thinking holistically about the game at all, despite telling everyone that that is exactly what he has been doing. kitaman27 has been subtly working behind the sense to further mafia agenda and his inconsistencies and timings betray himself. Are you honestly trying to discredit my play because one of my top mafia reads has a scum read on another mafia player? I'm supposed to suddenly give you a free pass because this has never happened in the history of mafia? I've proven why you are scum, hiding behind an association defense isn't going to save you. On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: kitaman27 is the scum mastermind who has been manipulating town from behind the scenes. kitaman27 is the lynch for today. Vote: kitaman27 Now you're just being over dramatic. I'm suddenly the scum mastermind? If you had a problem with my WoS case on day two, why not attack me for it then? If you had a problem with my glurio case last cycle, why not attack me for it then? Why am I not worth a post until I bring up a case against you and push you for the lynch? The difference between you and me is that I care about town, you care about yourself. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: A misinterpretation. That line merely served to explain my preference of GreYMisT over zarepath, not my explanation of lynching GreYMisT. So if your preference was GreYMisT, where was your reasoning? You're voting for GreYMisT with no evidence that you think he is scum or that you're trying to push the lynch. On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: Again another misinterpretation. Wade Fell / VisceraEyes were the most talked about players and it is kitaman27 who only had a passing comment upon these two players. kitaman27 acts as if everyone needs to "bring something to the plate" when it was quite obvious why people were voting Mr. Wiggles (lurking & trying to find blame for the Ace mislynch). There's nothing "new" to bring. Again, sure other people were voting Wiggles, but why aren't you justifying your vote? You're essentially admitting to sheeping town sentiment. You never mention Wiggles the day earlier and put in absolutely no effort to push anyone else. On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: Again, another misinterpretation. All kitaman27 is doing here is saying that I'm scum because I was wrong about Wade Fell. That is certainly not what I'm saying. I'm saying you were using a chainsaw defense with your attack on VE. On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: This is a closed setup game with unconventional roles (the Nightmare). There is nothing from my role PM or the setup that gives me insight to how scum KP works. In a closed setup it is dangerous to make normal game assumptions so I take everything with a grain of salt. I find that even 2 initial KP is strange (again, in the post but edited out by kitaman27). Objectively looking at his playstyle alone I found him scum, and because the time of the post comes after the lynch, there is time to reevaluate. Since I was going to get information from N2 actions, of course there is time for reconsideration, but I don't bank on N2 actions to dictate my D2 play. That's foolishness. Stating that you don't have knowledge of the mafia kp formula doesn't give you an excuse to discard common sense. A 25 person setup isn't going to involve mafia having a single kp. You never speculate what reason you believe triggered VE to fake claim his vet status. At the end of the cycle, you yourself admit that it was more likely VE was telling the truth about the vet, than mafia hiding a kp and fakeclaiming. However, as you were pushing the lynch, you refused to take it into account. That is a biased case. On March 22 2013 06:57 cosmicomics wrote: Furthermore, kitaman27 exposes himself as a hypocrite. In his defense of VisceraEyes, he says himself that the vet shot is a non factor. kitaman27 is a hypocrite. He accuses me of failing to do something that all townies do when he himself did just the same thing. That is indicative of a mafia inconsistency, because they have to lie and act deceitfully to get mislynches. Let me repeat that. The single most important part of his case is something that he himself didn't believe in. lol I'm not even sure what you are saying here. I'm saying that VE's vet claim does not change my town read on him to a mafia read. That's because the vet claim aligns itself with a town explanation. What I'm saying about you is that if you have a mafia read, then you better have an explanation about the role claim that points to him being town. I'm not being hypocritical and you're twisting my words. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 02:02 glurio wrote: You still have a scum read on me even after i posted a case on CC, which is my #1 scumread at the moment, kita? I'd like to see how you plan to make that work. I don't feel that his alignment invalidates my case against you. If he is your number one scum read, then where is your vote? Where do you stand between my case on him and his case on me? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 01:50 TestSubject893 wrote: I like this a lot and agree with the conclusion. Cosmicomics is definitely in my top 2 targets for today. Do you intend to help me push a cosmic lynch or do you plan on sticking on WoS this cycle? If we were ever to lynch a mafia roleblocker, it essentially solves the WoS case. He looks like he is putting in enough effort that I don't think he's the best lynch today. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 04:44 zarepath wrote: I'd like kita and CC's thoughts on layabout and WoS and why they think their scum read is scummier. From my experience with a scum layabout in Storm and Holy Roman, a mafia layabout likes to take the back seat and let others do the dirty work. After reading back through those two games, there wasn't a single instance where he lead his own lynch. I think that matches up pretty closely with this game. His votes on DarthPunk and Zarepath gained nearly no traction and he seemed fine with that. He did advocate a BH lynch, but with absolutely no intensity. At point point he mentions that the goal is to lynch mafia, then suggests a VE lynch who he believes is third party. After Wiggles has been agreed upon, he doesn't try to promote further discussion. Something else I've noticed with layabout is that he is often asking other people questions, but not following up on them. It seems like he values looking town more than actual scum hunting. I'd be quite willing to lynch him next cycle, with glurio as the alternate candidate. Once cosmic is lynched, I think glurio vs layabout will give us a good idea where the intentions of the remaining town members lie. WoS I had a strong mafia read early on, but the apathy that worried me before seems to no longer be the case. He is one of the few players that is contributing and seems to care about town. The way he has explained his role checks is sketchy, but I attribute his behavior more to being a newer player than a player with malicious intentions. I think it is unlikely that a mafia team would allow him to pick checks like vivax and VE without coaching. I currently have a town read on him. I think cosmic is the superior choice to be lynched this cycle because I'm quite confident in my case that I presented. - cosmic only pushes lynches when it seems to benefit him. He was extremely passive on day one and day three. In his defense, he states that I had misinterpreted his posts. There is nothing to misinterpet. He puts absolutely no effort in pushing lynches on those cycles and does not have the town motivation to post. Yet when a mafia objective is on the line, he shows up with a chainsaw defense on day two and an omgus attack on day four. - cosmic claims to have a mafia read on VE, but fails to consider the vet claim pointing to him being town during the lynch. This shows that he is attempting to push a lynch not based on the evidence in front of him, but based on the conclusion he hopes to reach. Furthermore, he makes no attempt to explain what motivation as mafia VE has to fake claim day two or lie about his mirror logs. If I'm considering a player for a lynch, these aren't things that I ignore and brush off as irrelevant. - cosmic does a complete 180 at the end of the cycle, suddenly deciding that the vet claim does point to him being town. He never explains why the ordeal with BH no longer applies. At the end of day two, he was still voting for VE at a point where a single vote would decide the lynch. - cosmic never mentions me in the entire game, yet the moment I claim to intend to go after him, he decides that I'm a veteran mafia mastermind. cosmic is likely a veteran smurf himself and if I had to guess, he's actually the one calling the shots. He attacks me for my case on glurio on day three, yet it was clear that Wiggles was my priority and that glurio was someone I was trying to apply pressure to. He criticisms my case on WoS, yet had no issue at the time it was posted. He is more than willing to explain why I'm scum for events that happened two cycles ago, which he was perfectly fine with at the time. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:31 cosmicomics wrote: kitaman27, if I'm the one calling the shots, please demonstrate how my actions have mislead the town to 3 consecutive mislynches. I've already done so for you, and you are quite a reasonable mafia head given that you are still alive during D4. On March 26 2013 13:41 cosmicomics wrote: geript: why hasn't scum shot kitaman27 yet? lol your case has come down to "kita is alive, he must be scum!" I've been alive on d4 10 out of my last 12 games as town. But of course you didn't even bother to confirm if your reasoning even makes sense. Your only objective is to push my mislynch ignoring the facts, just like you did with VE. glurio has cosmic as his number one scum read, test has cosmic in his top two scum reads, geript brings forth further evidence why cosmic is scum, yet I'm the only person voting for him. Does nobody care about this game anymore? In the last 12 hours we had one person other than myself or cosmic post and the cycle is nearly 3/4 of the way over already. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:39 layabout wrote: It would have been dumb for us to keep VE around and killing him has pretty much confirmed that the mirror exists. Is this a scum slip? The way you phrase this makes it sound like you killed VE. "It was dumb for us to keep VE around" is what I'd expect from a town standpoint. "It would have been dumb for us to keep VE around" infers that we didn't keep VE around. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 04:00 layabout wrote: That list is players that we should not lynch at all. Also know as players that i would have expected to be killed or obviously town players. Kitaman27 are you being intentionally dumb? You listed those players asking why are they still alive, which I inferred meant that you wanted them dead. Is this not the case? If you're asking for the sake of asking, what would you speculate the reason for them being alive? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:54 geript wrote: @Kita. You made the original case on WoS, how did he become confirmed townie? How do you explain the missing roleblock? I can't explain the missing roleblock. It's missing. The only explanation I can think of is that either the mafia team didn't roleblock night one or they buried the roleblock in a kill. I never called him confirmed townie, but I've changed my mind on him from my original case based on his play on late day two and day three. It does concern me that he has been completely absent this cycle, but I still would prefer cosmic and layabout to die first. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 10:45 layabout wrote: Cosmic makes the point that Kitaman has been misdirecting us. After re-reading it turns out that Kitaman27 is the one who raised a bunch of suspicion and posting around Vivax by tring to make an issue out of a scumslip that we should have just ignored. lol that occurred in the opening hours of the game and was dropped moments later. Is this honestly the best you can come up with? On March 27 2013 10:45 layabout wrote: Wiggles dying words were to warn us about kitaman27 and we should not dismiss them out of hand. Wiggles also had a cosmic scum read, but clearly that doesn't fit your case. How about explain things yourself, rather than hide behind a dead man. On March 27 2013 10:58 layabout wrote: Kitaman27 also straight up lies about my meta when he calls me scum. Again he is misdirecting the thread. he describes my play in those games as taking a back seat In storm mafia i was the second on the day1 redff lynch and the first serious vote on it, i also wrote a case on VE the serial killer and pushed him hard. In holy romanholy roman i spent a good while reading the 100+ pages having replaced in and then dealt with around 1 lynch before i was dt checked and spent my time spamming the thread and pushing each living player in one day. Open your eyes. Kitaman27 is scum! ##voteKitaman27 I'm not lying. You were the second person on redff, then you proceed to not post in the entire thread the remainder of the cycle. Sure you pushed VE for like six days or whatever, but you clearly didn't put in enough effort to get him lynched considering he survived until endgame. bugs was calling the shots that game and it was pretty clear. We're not disagreeing about Holy Roman so I don't see how I could possibly be lying. I think the most telling thing is how unwilling layabout is to go after cosmic. Voting cosmic would be his only possible chance at survival, yet he decides to go after me instead. I find it extremely likely that we've found a pair of scum buddies. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 11:36 cosmicomics wrote: Ok so all creepyness aside, I'm the Mirror and layabout is my star crossed lover. I'm almost positive that he is town. I picked him because he seemed like he was a low focus player who can survive mislynches / shots till LYLO with me. That's my, and now layabout's wincon. We just have to make it till LYLO. If one of us dies, the other dies too. We get a 1KP bullet proof vest a night, but I have to choose whether it is on me or layabout, and once it absorbs a hit it's gone. We still have it. cosmic clearly doesn't win by surviving with town. This is all nonsense. Remember on day two how he manipulated VE into thinking he was being recruited? And then he proceed to push for his lynch? He made no effort in clearing the suspicions that VE was third party. He pushed a mislynch for the "lulz". This isn't play indicative of a player that wins with town. A survivor with a bulletproof vest uses his mason ability to scum hunt and then use the town cred to never be lynched. They don't push mislynches for their own amusement. I tried to chat with him 1:1 in real time to get a read on him, but he dodged me at everyone opportunity. He claims to have been trying to figure out my alignment, yet every opportunity I requested to chat, he brushed off. After writing a case against me which proved how sure he was that I am scum, now that people agree I am town, he backtracks and jumps on another player with DarthPunk. He claims to have reread the thread to discover that I was mafia earlier, now he admits he hasn't been reading the thread very closely at all. cosmic and layabout were almost certainly going to be lynched the next two cycles. I pegged them as scum, they couldn't misdirect the lynch and this is their last ditch effort to swing things. Notice how they waited until only a few hours left in the cycle to pull this stunt. They're hoping that we buy into their story and do a last minute panic switch without thinking things through. It's also possible that this ploy would allow their kp to remain at two for another night. cosmic needs to be lynched this cycle. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 13:12 DarthPunk wrote: Because there is absolutely ZERO reason for scum to fake claim right now. They are clearly winning. So why just throw away two scum members for no reason? It makes no sense at all for mafia to fake claim. It makes perfect sense for 3rd party to help town right now because we are in an awful position. That is why I believe the claim. No one should not believe the claim. Yourself and Ryo are basically claiming scum right now. ##Vote: Kitaman27 Are you kidding me? There were 5 votes on cosmic and 3 votes on layabout before this claim. One of them was most certainly going to get lynched this cycle. There is only a couple hours in the cycle remaining. Do you expect that we were going to suddenly decide to all swap to WoS or something? They have every reason to fake claim for survival right now. The moment cosmic flipped scum, everyone was going to lynch layabout the next cycle. This is their only chance. You say that cosmic wants to work with town, but ignore the fact that he trolled VE and tried to push his mislynch? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Wave, there was absolutely no reason for cosmic not to fake claim at this point. There was a 95% chance that he was getting lynched so he claims third party and tries to move the lynch elsewhere. If he is scum before, he is about to die and needs to find a way out of it, what reason is there to believe a word he says? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 13:21 WaveofShadow wrote: I find the claim fairly believable actually since I don't see scum getting two mason roles while we only get one. What incentive does a non-mafia player have to pm VE, trick him into thinking he has been recruited, and then push for a mislynch once VE reveals the mason logs. If the mirror was simply a third party survivor, he could use his mason to help town and scumhunt, then use the town cred to not get lynched. There is no reason to worry about a hit because he has a bulletproof vest. Are you really willing to ignore player analysis which showed that cosmic was scum in favor of setup speculation, that we have no proof of? On March 27 2013 13:24 cosmicomics wrote: Bold is kitaman trying to lynch me for being 3rd party. Red is kitaman trying to lynch me for being scum. Nowhere does kitaman actually try to evaluate what I actually am or the repercussions that lynching me will bring. Where do I call you third party in bold. This is a lie. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
What incentive does a third party player have to frame VE via mason chat, push his lynch hard in the thread, and defend a player that is scum. If you guys are going with the "each alignment has one mason" approach, then think about this: With greymist flipping town mason, and cosmic being a mason himself, he would come to the conclusion that BH would be a scum mason. Rather than pushing him, he defends him and pushes a VE lynch. cosmic is mafia, he has used his mason ability to push a mafia agenda. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 13:33 WaveofShadow wrote: So a Dreamer? Can you confirm that you die if cosmic does, because that's not what your last post makes it seem like. Their fake claims don't even line up. cosmic claims that when one of them dies, they both die. layabout claims that he was town, was converted to third party, and would be converted back to town if cosmic dies. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 13:41 ThePeashooter wrote: Sorry for my apathy. There were a certain few parts in this game that completely destroyed my will to play. Based off the most recent set of posting it looks like LayAbout is scum to me. I really don't think the WoS claim or my rolecheck can be questioned if you actually care to look at the evidence and he seems to just be trying to cause chaos. My apathy caused by certain players this game combined with me actually being really busy the last couple of days lead to me playing an extremely lackluster game. I really did intend on delivering more and better analysis but I just didn't have the time to do it the last few days. I 100% agree that layabout is scum, but cosmic is as well. They just fake claimed to ensure their survival after we basically all agreed that we would be lynching them back to back the next two cycles. We need your vote on cosmic since that is where we have all consolidated on and we will lynch layabout tomorrow. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Anyone notice how he never mentioned a second recruit besides layabout? Layabout was masoned day one, VE was masoned day two and rejected, mystery player X was masoned day three and likely accepted because he didn't claim the mason in the thread and I was masoned day four. It's likely either going to be 7v3 or 6v4 after night kills depending on if a modkill was a flip and assuming the mafia team still has two kp. Imagine if we had mislynched last cycle. Town would have had 5-6 players remaining. With layabout + cosmic + player X and 3-4 mafia players, depending on the modkills and if layabout or player X was originally scum, the third party and mafia team would control the lynch. Last cycle would have been GG for us if we didn't lynch cosmic. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 28 2013 08:40 WaveofShadow wrote: Yup, I agree and I do not regret it; but we can't afford any more mistakes the rest of the game. Tonight hasn't been particularly active at all and I'm not sure where to go from here in terms of lynch targets for tomorrow. Thoughts, kita? Especially since you thought cc/layabout were lying about being 3rd party. Well I was right about cosmic lying considering its almost certain that they wouldn't have sided with town, I was just wrong about his actual alignment. layabout still could be mafia after his original alignment returned. I'll have to check how his play on day one to day two changed when his alignment changed. DarthPunk in particular fought extra hard to get me lynched last cycle. It's quite possible that he was trying to push a mislynch to ensure the mafia/third party victory. He had a scum read on cosmic, cosmic comes out with his bizzare role claim and a mafia read on DarthPunk, and then the next moment, all three of them are voting together like a happy family to vote me. With my focus on cosmic, layabout and glurio the last cycle, I never really had the time to look back at DP. Another thing to consider is how cosmic and glurio used the excuse that cosmic was glurio's number one scum read so they couldn't possibly be the same alignment. Now that cosmic has flipped third party, there is an actual explanation on how they could have been both anti-town, yet still not part of the same team. As for activity, I agree. It's been terrible this cycle. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 29 2013 00:12 zarepath wrote: Kitaman [spoiler] Has been wrong on literally everyone he's wanted lynched. Not as certain here as I am about Kenpachi. Called CC both 3P and scum, and has framed today's discussion between glurio and layabout when both of them have gone after BH. DP called him scum and then immediately died. How do you know what I've been wrong on literally everyone that I've wanted to lynch? Even though I believe WoS is town now, he hasn't been flipped and glurio/layabout certainly haven't flipped yet. Do you have additional knowledge of their alignments? I admit I was incorrect about GreYMisT and Wiggles, but so was everyone else. We haven't had a single mafia lynch yet, so why does this reasoning apply to me, but not everyone else? Where did I call CC both 3P and scum? That was just something CC made up while I was pushing for his lynch. It's possible that DP dying is an attempt to frame me for a mislynch. I won't have time for a big post until tonight, but I'll explain why glurio or layabout is the best lynch then (assuming I don't change my mind after rereading). | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I already outlined a case against Glurio, but that was a couple days ago so I'll update based on the events of the last few days. Case for reference: + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2013 03:46 kitaman27 wrote: For tomorrow, someone I think we should be looking at is glurio. To start the game, he posts suspicion against coag, stating that coag is useless, without actually calling coag scummy. Rather than actually voting for coag, he votes for DP, a player he never actually mentions in the thread. It's not like DP was more of a lynch-able candidate as there were only 2 votes on him. During the first cycle, he never actually mentions GreYMisT, which is significant considering he was the main lynch candidate for the day. He soft defends BH, without actually providing a reason why he doesn't have a scum read on him. With the day two vote, he votes for Mocsta as the lone vote. At no point in the cycle does he try to convince others to vote Mocsta, only that he was going with his "gut". After the BH flip, he explains how BH's interaction with Wiggles is scum-to-scum conversation, yet decides to vote cosmicomics. Glurio complains that no one listens to him, but on day one and two there was actually nothing to listen to. How are we supposed to be convinced by his posts if his only explanation is his gut? Overall, Glurio feels like an observer this game, looking to stay under the radar and lacks the town motivation to push a lynch. It seems that he cares more about survival and doing his own thing, voting for players that have no chance of being lynched. He would be a good lynch candidate tomorrow. First I want to highlight the following post: On March 26 2013 02:02 glurio wrote: You still have a scum read on me even after i posted a case on CC, which is my #1 scumread at the moment, kita? I'd like to see how you plan to make that work. When I listed glurio and CC as my top scum reads, glurio responded with the above question. A scum glurio would very well know that I would have no explanation, even though both players would be anti-town. He tries to tie his alignment to the alignment of another player to make me question my reads. On March 27 2013 06:49 glurio wrote: I'll vote cosmicomics today. He couldn't convince me he is town. Notice the wording of this post. After the mirror claim, rather than stating "cosmic is scum", he states that "he couldn't convince me he is town." As a mafia glurio, would certainly know that cosmic is third party, the way he phrases this statement betrays the fact that he has additional knowledge about the game. On March 20 2013 05:20 glurio wrote: I really don't see how anyone can vote for wade fell as scum? In his soft-defense of BH, he disregards any notion of potentially voting for him, but doesn't provide any reasoning why. On March 27 2013 06:49 glurio wrote: We should really look into layabout tomorrow. Last cycle glurio expresses his suspicion of layabout, yet now he has failed to even bring him up, shifting his suspicion towards myself and ryu. Why post suspicion of a player without following through with it, unless you want to create distance from a player in case one of you two flip. On March 26 2013 00:14 glurio wrote: Why are your checks so terrible? Vivax was a crappy target for a check, no one doubted he was town, so was VE. Why not check some people who we actually think are scum at this point? You tunneled me the whole game and didn't check me? Why? On March 21 2013 05:47 glurio wrote: Ok i believe WoS's claim and unvote him. Look how glurio attacks WoS's checks, but refuses to actually call him scummy. He calls the checks terrible, yet never states what conclusion he comes to based on the checks. What point is there to cast suspicion on a player that you have a town read? glurio is playing the classic backseat mafia role. He has no interest in attracting any attention, being involved in any arguments or pushing any lynches. If I had to pick one word to characterize his play, it would be "safe". I can't find one post that shows glurio feels strongly about a single issue He votes for a player on day one with two other votes. He votes for a player on day two with zero other votes. Rather than scum hunting, he is hunting for players to vote for that will keep him out of the spotlight. Notice in his defense post about how his wasn't around for the second half of either cycle. Instead of pushing his lynch, his is throwing down his vote and returning 24 hours later to find out who flipped. glurio is scum | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 10:58 layabout wrote: Kitaman27 also straight up lies about my meta when he calls me scum. Again he is misdirecting the thread. he describes my play in those games as taking a back seat In storm mafia i was the second on the day1 redff lynch and the first serious vote on it, i also wrote a case on VE the serial killer and pushed him hard. In holy romanholy roman i spent a good while reading the 100+ pages having replaced in and then dealt with around 1 lynch before i was dt checked and spent my time spamming the thread and pushing each living player in one day. Open your eyes. Kitaman27 is scum! ##voteKitaman27 On March 27 2013 12:37 layabout wrote: Oh and your vote on me was horsemanure i only ignored you because i didn't want to introduce another candidate. It seems a Kitaman lynch is off the cards and cosmic isn't mafia. Lynching a survivor does nothing to reduce mafia KP and it will let them get more shots off. ##vote DarthPunk On March 27 2013 13:55 layabout wrote: ? voting for me is voting for not-mafia and let's cosmic the not-mafia die and benefits mafia by giving them lylos and mylos until the end changing my vote Give me a mafia lynch to wake up to. ##vote Kitaman27 Look how flippy floppy layabout is with his lynch target on day four. He doesn't care who gets lynched, he is just voting for the player that is most likely to have the most votes. He calls DP scum, then turns around and votes with DP. A third party player who was originally town would want a scum lynch since it would mean that if he was ever converted back, he would be in a better position. A third party player that was originally mafia would simply push whatever option was available. layabout is scum | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 29 2013 11:27 WaveofShadow wrote: I want to hear what people have to say regarding DP's dying words. Saying that if you or me don't get shot that we must be scum is nonsense. Scum are the ones choosing who dies and its posts like these that leave us full of WIFOM. Where are you currently at for today? Are you still planning to push Zarepath? What are your thoughts about my posts on glurio and layabout? On March 29 2013 11:29 layabout wrote: I have been a bit busy today so sorry about that. I was hoping i would die since you ruined my dreams and did so knowing it would be to mafia's benefit. We need to lynch mafia every day but at least they were out in full frce yesterday. Today we lynch Kitaman27 or Ryusuzaku. Tomorrow we lynch the other one. Do you actually have a reason or did you just pick someone at random? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 29 2013 14:35 ThePeashooter wrote: And Kita, how do you feel about Geript? I think him and DYH are being ignored to some degree, which is a concern this late into the game, but I don't have a strong scum read on him. Does nobody have thoughts on the two cases I just posted? zarepath, you mentioned that glurio could be scum, but there wasn't a case around to convince you. What are your thoughts now that I posted a case? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
We can't have votes all spread out like this. WoS, what is your current read on glurio? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 30 2013 07:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Right now I want to focus on DYH. You didn't answer my question. Do you have a town or mafia read on glurio? I'll take a look at DYH and let you know what I think about the case. On March 30 2013 07:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Right now I want to focus on DYH. Kita you have some outstanding pressure against you and I'd like to hear your responses to those people. All I see is glurio with his omgus, calling me scum without a case. Not sure what there is to respond to unless there is something else I missed? On March 30 2013 05:16 ThePeashooter wrote: Kita, what are your thoughts on Kenpachi? Kenpachi is probably the hardest person I have reading out of anyone on TL. He generally doesn't care about looking bad to others and seems to enjoy playing to his meta. I was looking through some of his past games earlier this cycle, but I've seen play like this from both alignments, so I'm pretty much at a null right now. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I'm more than willing to take your vote on glurio though, even if you think I'm busing him. Just don't try to use it as a point against me when he flips red. @greipt, I think you're putting too much focus on WoS when there are other better targets around. The roleblock question is something you can't use for or against WoS. It's an unknown variable currently so that just comes down to speculation. We also don't know if those players were shot due to the suspicion of WoS or for other reasons, so that has to be disregarded as well. It would be one thing if WoS was a mafia rolecop and he breadcrumbed his check on TPS to have his scum buddy pressure him and claim dt, but I was the one the brought up the original case and I know my alignment is town, so that's not the case. @WoS, The DYH case looks like it has some merit and the part where you mention all his third party speculation, where he earlier mentioned that he didn't think there was a third party does look like it could be a mafia player that lost track of his stances because they weren't legitimate. I do think that glurio is a much better lynch though for the reasons I explained earlier. What do you think about the fact that glurio tried to defend himself by tying his alignment to cosmic and then forcing me to explain how they can't possibly be both scum? I think this was a really scummy defense of him. @DYH, the last time you mentioned me was when you stated that you thought I was town and that nobody would disagree. You stated multiple times that you agreed with me on my reads. Now suddenly you change your stance at lylo. What specifically made you change your mind between then and now? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 30 2013 09:03 glurio wrote: Kita and me can't be scum. Kita and layabout can't both be scum. lol this is exactly what you said between you and cosmic. Stop tying your alignment to other players. You are mafia. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 30 2013 10:14 ThePeashooter wrote: So Kita, one thing that has been bugging me. When I asked you to post your thoughts on Wade Fell after putting forth an analysis on him, why didn't you do it? You literally never wrote anything about him at all. I'm curious to how you never thought to mention the most active/scummy/annoying player in the game at least once in your posting? I don't recall. I probably just missed the request since its not like I would purposely ignore something if asked. Day two I was mostly focused on WoS with my big case and then Wiggles after the dt claim. Generally I let early blue claims fix themselves with the night hits and take another look if they're still around latter. BH hadn't really caught my attention while I was looking elsewhere. The one thing that is bugging me is that how few people are willing to defend glurio, yet there are only a couple votes on him. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 24 2013 07:15 glurio wrote: Yes coag looked very scummy, but everyone put it down to "meta" and they had a town read, no one even considered a coag lynch. So why push something which clearly wouldn't happen anyway? DarthPunk (3): VisceraEyes, glurio, Coagulation Mocsta (1): glurio Look how glurio clearly contradicts himself in his defense post. He says he "So why push something which clearly wouldn't happen anyway" and proceeds to vote for a player with 2 other votes on day one and zero other votes on day two. It can't get any clearer that he was trying to find low profile targets and move his vote to players where he wouldn't get questioned. On March 27 2013 06:49 glurio wrote: I'll vote cosmicomics today. He couldn't convince me he is town. Notice the wording of this post. After the mirror claim, rather than stating "cosmic is scum", he states that "he couldn't convince me he is town." As a mafia glurio, would certainly know that cosmic is third party, the way he phrases this statement betrays the fact that he has additional knowledge about the game. Again, I'm bringing this up since nobody has commented on it. Why is this so difficult? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 30 2013 11:14 ThePeashooter wrote: Why didn't he catch your attention? He was blatantly lying and acting like a dipshit the whole game. I remember taking a look at his filter and noticing how ridiculously spammy it was, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't one of the people I spent time analyzing on day two and I don't recall noticing anything that set off red flags. There were plenty of people I hadn't commented on at that point. In a perfect world I'd be able to write a case on every single player, but with the time restraints I had, WoS was my main time sink early that cycle. On March 30 2013 11:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Unvote: DoYouHas Vote: Glurio BA-BAM Does this indicate that you no longer have a scum read on DYH or do you just think glurio has a better chance of flipping? On March 30 2013 12:30 geript wrote: Ok, sure whatever, nutter butter. I have no idea what this nutter butter is, but I approve. On March 30 2013 11:47 layabout wrote: Yesterday kitaman27 was pushing for a cosmic lynch and pre-claim he may have been justified in doing so. However post-claim kitaman deliberately ignores the consequences of the claim, which there was plenty of evidence to support and very few reasons to doubt. Yesterday mafia benefitted the most from the lynch and kitman27 was aware of this but chose to push their agenda. Why? Well he is mafia ##vote kitaman27 Even though Wiggles was town, doesn't mean he is correct. You quoting a dead man rather than coming up with a case yourself shows that you are trying to take advantage of this misguided suspicion. As for your comment that "Yesterday mafia benefitted the most from the lynch" in reference to cosmic, I already explained how this was false. The third party team likely comprised of three players, considering you were recruited the first cycle and the person cosmic chose to mason on day three never claimed in the thread. Assuming there are 3-4 mafia players remaining, even if the mafia/third party overlapped, which I think is likely with you, they still would have had 5-6 votes. With a town mislynch last cycle, like you and cosmic were trying to push, we would have 5-6 townies remaining. Thus, the mafia and third party could have voted together to control the lynch today and achieve a mutual victory. Now how does this sense for mafia to benefit the most from a cosmic lynch? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Thanks for hosting DrH and oats ^_^ Day four went a bit silly, but I guessed things worked out. Laya was insistent that third party could not win with mafia and that the only way we would both win would be if all four of us were converted. Realizing that we had a player that was threatening to back stab us considering he was an anti-scum faction with the entire scum list, we decided to push cosmic, knowing that we would come out terrible, but removing the laya problem and the threat of the third party potentially controlling the lynch a couple cycles down the road. We had thought that the only logical way that a third party without kp could achieve a solo victory was if he was a cult leader who could recruit every cycle and we assumed that layabout and all his other recruits would die with cosmic. I think a recruiting mechanic where mafia can be recruited is a bit awkward since it potentially forces layabout to play with conflicting win conditions. He knows the entire mafia team, isn't allowed to explicitly mention their names, but is allowed to push cases on them for their lynch with 100% accuracy. Otherwise, I think the setup was pretty balanced and the mason/vig role was pretty interesting. The biggest part of our success was probably choosing our night hits in a way to shape town opinion. In the previous podcast, it was universally agreed that limiting discussion during the night was terrible for town. However, this game none of us really felt any pressure from the night discussion and it was a great way for us to figure out where certain players stood. | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 30 2013 23:55 layabout wrote: +i couldn't win with mafia kita  I think I'm still confused about that one then :p On March 27 2013 16:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Your win condition is to survive to the end of the game. The win condition of a mirror image is to make sure that you survive. Doesn't this infer that the mirror/recruits only had to survive, not eliminate all other factions? | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
| ||
| ||
