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anyways... layabouts mention of the mirror
is that the first instance in the thread?
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We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb.
But leaving a claimed 3rd party player alive, when it empowers a player we have no idea about is just as dumb. I don't see how this is a difficult concept to understand.
I guess you guys think leaving claimed Serial Killers alive is a good idea as long as they help the town. lulz.
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Mocsta did you know that you can have thoughts that you don't post in the thread?
my point is that VE has claimed roles like this a bunch of times and trying to rationalise or wifom it doesn't help.
He claimed 3rd party so we lynch him.
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On March 21 2013 01:58 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 01:56 Mocsta wrote:
With the information standing.. this is fuckn suspicious, and whose pushing the VE vote. its ACE
Why cant he be the mirror?
Seriously.. why the fuck would VE out himself like this...
I dont see what layabout posted has anythign to do with it.. OK hes a compulsive claimer..perhaps.. surely thats only as blue roles.. not a claimer as scum/3rd party.. The whole situation doesnt make sense. You're right, it doesn't, but until given more information what else can we go on? We can't risk an outed 3rd party with possible empowered role escaping unpunished.
We totally, absolutely can. There's no evidence of any 3rd party kill power yet, so it's not like we lose much yet, and we have scum to still find. If we lynch 3rd party today and scum uses 2 KP tonight, we're kind of in a precarious situation with only one serious lynch of information to go off of, and that was the crazy Day 1 mislynch.
I think we're far better off looking for scum for the rest of the day than we are instantly agreeing that we shoudl lynch VE. It is super easy for scum to agree to this and look pro-town.
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On March 21 2013 02:00 Mocsta wrote:
anyways... layabouts mention of the mirror
is that the first instance in the thread?
Read the thread!!!!
QUOTE]On March 20 2013 10:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
I've got another visitor to my PM box. "The Mirror" has masoned me now. No indication as to what player it is, and the QT is empty aside from me trying to get acknowledgement from whomever it is.
I'm so sick and tired of being a pivotal piece in these games while simultaneously being ignored by half the players. X([/QUOTE]
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On March 21 2013 01:59 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 01:59 zarepath wrote:
I think that we are better served finding scum today than lynching someone who claimed 3rd party.
We'll always know who the 3rd party player is, but if we refuse to look for scum today we lose a lot of ground. Fuckn bingo. Ace knows better than this
Ok, fair enough so I'll continue to look for scum. But like at this point I don't see a better choice.
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On March 21 2013 02:02 Ace wrote:
We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb..
Well you must be the champion of dumb then
When I ask your opinion of others, you say only VE for consideration.
So u want to maintain the vote on VE watevz... but lead the way with the scum hunting Mr. Ace.
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Unless I'm super sure though: we lynch the claimed scum.
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BTW, unvoting WoS in the voting thread
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You may not know this about me but let me get this out of the way: I rarely just offer up reads on every player in the game, especially when I haven't even had time to go through the entire thread to get one on them. Besides, why does it matter? If you're only at page 22 or whatever how does my read, when you know I'm not done yet, help you? How? You've been finger pointing like mad, maybe you should chill out just a bit so when you do have something concrete we can take you seriously.
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Scum feel absolutely zero pressure if we all agree to lynch VE, so I'm pretty much going to completely ignore this third party stuff until I feel it's relevant.
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On March 21 2013 02:03 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 01:58 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 21 2013 01:56 Mocsta wrote:
With the information standing.. this is fuckn suspicious, and whose pushing the VE vote. its ACE
Why cant he be the mirror?
Seriously.. why the fuck would VE out himself like this...
I dont see what layabout posted has anythign to do with it.. OK hes a compulsive claimer..perhaps.. surely thats only as blue roles.. not a claimer as scum/3rd party.. The whole situation doesnt make sense. You're right, it doesn't, but until given more information what else can we go on? We can't risk an outed 3rd party with possible empowered role escaping unpunished. We totally, absolutely can. There's no evidence of any 3rd party kill power yet, so it's not like we lose much yet, and we have scum to still find. If we lynch 3rd party today and scum uses 2 KP tonight, we're kind of in a precarious situation with only one serious lynch of information to go off of, and that was the crazy Day 1 mislynch. I think we're far better off looking for scum for the rest of the day than we are instantly agreeing that we shoudl lynch VE. It is super easy for scum to agree to this and look pro-town.
The need to look for scum doesn't change the fact that we should lynch VE.
What do you make of these 3?
TestSubject893
glurio
TranceStorm
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On March 21 2013 02:09 zarepath wrote:
Scum feel absolutely zero pressure if we all agree to lynch VE, so I'm pretty much going to completely ignore this third party stuff until I feel it's relevant.
it's relevant :|
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zarepath, if VE is some kind of 3rd party Vet with more than 1 shot powers he can only die by lynch. I'm pretty sure the Town has some kind of night KP - we find a Scum today and vigi him. Both problems solved.
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On March 21 2013 02:11 Ace wrote:
zarepath, if VE is some kind of 3rd party Vet with more than 1 shot powers he can only die by lynch. I'm pretty sure the Town has some kind of night KP - we find a Scum today and vigi him. Both problems solved.
I can work with that supposition.
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On March 21 2013 02:11 Ace wrote:
zarepath, if VE is some kind of 3rd party Vet with more than 1 shot powers he can only die by lynch. I'm pretty sure the Town has some kind of night KP - we find a Scum today and vigi him. Both problems solved.
You are pretty sure town had 2 vig? GreY was a pseudo mason-vig.
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Actually I'm still waiting on the contributions promised here:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 07:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Ok, I'm back.
About the Peashooter case. Can someone point out the scum motivations in his posting to me? I see there's a case, but some of it seems like it's on an emotional basis, and some it's based on activity, neither of which I see as being valid for calling him scum. Reading through his posts, I don't see scum motivation though. He's not trying to misdirect us, and he's not trying that much to fit in and hide. The feeling I get from him is that he's just pretty angry, but it seem honest. For example, he got all mad at Coag, but then later he gets all mad at Kenpachi for similar reasons. So, he's consistent with it.
Deleted a bit about layabout, I like his recent posting.
I'm waiting on a couple of other people to continue posting. I'd like to see how they react to recent developments.
As for VE/BH, I don't want to lynch into them right now. I'd rather let scum or vigs sort them out for us. I find them hard to read, because they play very emotionally, and they do/say a lot of things I find scummy/disagree with from a play perspective on a regular basis. If VE was actually shot, and BH is a mason, then scum will have to go after them sooner or later. If they don't, they're either going to start to doing good work as town, or else they're going to out themselves as scum, because if I remember right, their scum play isn't the greatest compared to their town play. I think we can find better targets for today.
I'm going to do some stuff, and then read through some of the other posters who haven't really caught my attention or who have been avoiding the spotlight. I feel there's a good chance of finding scum among them.
Afterwards he pressured WoS but that was only after Kitaman27 made him. He has a short interaction with Kenpachi and look at his vote:
On March 20 2013 12:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Hey everyone, look how mad I am! I must be town, because I'm sooooooooooooooo frustrated!
I'm tired of people making cases on me based on me not sitting on my ass playing mafia all day to the exclusion of other things. You don't see me blowing up. Because stupid emotional appeals are shit play or scum trying to worm out of a lynch.
##Vote: WaveofShadow He qualifies he vote by saying that he WoS is bad or scum. I am not used to wiggles voting in this way and it suggests to me that wiggles just think he is bad, but is willing to vote anyway.
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On March 21 2013 02:09 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:03 zarepath wrote:On March 21 2013 01:58 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 21 2013 01:56 Mocsta wrote:
With the information standing.. this is fuckn suspicious, and whose pushing the VE vote. its ACE
Why cant he be the mirror?
Seriously.. why the fuck would VE out himself like this...
I dont see what layabout posted has anythign to do with it.. OK hes a compulsive claimer..perhaps.. surely thats only as blue roles.. not a claimer as scum/3rd party.. The whole situation doesnt make sense. You're right, it doesn't, but until given more information what else can we go on? We can't risk an outed 3rd party with possible empowered role escaping unpunished. We totally, absolutely can. There's no evidence of any 3rd party kill power yet, so it's not like we lose much yet, and we have scum to still find. If we lynch 3rd party today and scum uses 2 KP tonight, we're kind of in a precarious situation with only one serious lynch of information to go off of, and that was the crazy Day 1 mislynch. I think we're far better off looking for scum for the rest of the day than we are instantly agreeing that we shoudl lynch VE. It is super easy for scum to agree to this and look pro-town. The need to look for scum doesn't change the fact that we should lynch VE. What do you make of these 3? TestSubject893 glurio TranceStorm
Trance is yet another player who just jumped on board the Wavetrain albeit with a little more effort than some of the others.
On March 20 2013 16:56 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 16:37 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 16:34 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 15:46 geript wrote:On March 20 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:On March 20 2013 15:06 geript wrote:
Moc could you explain that logic more clearly. I'm not understanding that post at all. I can, if you let me know what you're struggling to follow. Surely its not the "whole thing" Here's what I mean: your problem with WoS as you summarize it is that in non-newb (non-first game) games he has more balls. You confront him on it. He turns on the 'balls factor.' You unvote based on said 'having balls' town read. Then you excuse the kita case essentially based on experienced player reading an experienced player when you say WoS isn't experienced and thus the whole case is invalid. There's nothing damning there and I can follow that at least. That said, I can't help but feel that this whole exchange is fishy because it comes off as you telling him how to act, then he acts that way, then you dismiss your vote and the case with a wave of the hand. (Pun intended). I categorize this as "Moc-type logic" but it still feels artificial to me. The last part is my real issue: For me, the case is upheld *ONLY IF* WoS hasnt pushed a lynch agenda during Day1. Thats when a sheep vote to me is scummy. From the quick filter browse i did, it looked like he satisfied the above, thus, making the case invalid to me. You say the case is upheld only if WoS doesn't push a lynch agenda D1. Honestly, I didn't remember a lynch agenda from him D1 and the only points re:lynch are a +1 on DP and a preference on GM over Zare. He even noted his meta reads are crap; I think he also called my meta reads as crap (based on previous games where Zare had at least softclaimed town early). However, I don't remember him commenting on DYH's meta read at all. I don't see a real case push from WoS D1 which makes the case still stand then right? Wow Geript.. I wrote this whole post and said fuck it. im not gonna be lazy, I will read 6 pages of WoS. It changed everything. You are right. Kita case still stands.I was wrong. this fucker did not do anything until the Kita case (which is the only stuff I read when WoS asked me to look @ his filter  my derp) I was under the impression he had pushed Mr.Wiggles all of Day 1.. obviously wrong. I dindt realise the majority of his filter came from late Night1/early Day 2. And also that the majority of his filter is just talking shit. There is not a clear agenda. I need to read WoS defense of Kita case one more time, because I wasnt satisfied the first time around; but was giving undue credit for pushing a case Day1. For your reference, the below is the post i was about to make before reading WoS filter. + Show Spoiler +
(1) "Balls"
Now for what you raised:
I didnt unvote WoS because he turned the balls factor on... that would be invalid (cos i gave him a way out)..
The way it went down: I skipped to the most recent page, saw that limp post of him and was like WTF, WoS doesnt play like that and made my meta validation vote post. It was that simple. I think its pretty obvious when i voted him, it was with intention to lynch.
He then identified to me, that he had "balls" before the meta case. As such, the meta case post in my opinion became his saving grace.
(2) Why lynch push is important
I know you love poker. so let me me analogous to that.
Pros expect a certain level of play, and can actually struggle against newbies, because they dont understand/conform to the "rules' of the game and make unpredicatable/stupid plays.
I believe that was the basis of kitaman case on WoS. Those tells on someone like DP would indeed be the nail in the coffin. Unfortunately I dont find them as strong on newbies, because typically they are not as aware of what constitutes good play; or the ramifications of their own play.
Hence why I said, Kita case points are indeed valid scum tells; but to me only point to a scum WoS if he hasnt pushed a lynch candidate hard. (That would be the turning point for me to consider the tells as scum, and not newbie town being unaware/stupid).
(3) Is the case invalid - i.e. did WoS push anyone hard
I need to do a proper read of his filter, instead of just a couple pages.
Based on Day2 play, I thought he pushed ppl; hence my retraction of vote.
Based on Day1 play, I havent read it (yet.. planning to tonight)
If WoS indeed only discussed "Im not familiar to know these meta reads" and didnt push a lynch vote, then I would give serious consideration to Kita case, and most likely lead to a vote on WoS.
Unfortunately, I am making a leap of faith currently that the targets WoS pushed today (i.e. Mr.Wiggles etc) are the same ppl from Day1. If that is the situation at hand, then I think Kita case is invalid in full.
err no he didn't push any agenda D1. I was going to point this out too: In fact as of N1 Wiggles was one of his "strongest town reads". By early D2, Wiggles was the scummiest person in the thread to WoS. The conversion does not look convincing to me. Look into this as well as my post above and tell me what you think. Good spot, its an astonishing 180 degree turnaround. Moreover, in the posts you quoted earlier, he acts in a very arrogant manner as if to suggest the town is playing poorly; now he wants us to believe that he has been playing a poor townie all along. I can't buy the emotional appeals he's making. I think that you are making a little too much of the cosmicomics connection at the moment though. That can be looked into if WoS does indeed flip red. Mind you, if WoS is scum, then my suspicions against TPS are probably completely wrong.
And now he's wrong about both me AND TPS!
I still think glurio is town based on gameplay alone, though if you consider the fact that he's barely been to the thread at all, that's scummy glurio. I'll be able to tell his alignment for sure if he comes back and contributes a little. If he doesn't at all, he's scum.
TestSubject I got nothing. I have to go look.
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On March 21 2013 02:21 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:09 layabout wrote:On March 21 2013 02:03 zarepath wrote:On March 21 2013 01:58 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 21 2013 01:56 Mocsta wrote:
With the information standing.. this is fuckn suspicious, and whose pushing the VE vote. its ACE
Why cant he be the mirror?
Seriously.. why the fuck would VE out himself like this...
I dont see what layabout posted has anythign to do with it.. OK hes a compulsive claimer..perhaps.. surely thats only as blue roles.. not a claimer as scum/3rd party.. The whole situation doesnt make sense. You're right, it doesn't, but until given more information what else can we go on? We can't risk an outed 3rd party with possible empowered role escaping unpunished. We totally, absolutely can. There's no evidence of any 3rd party kill power yet, so it's not like we lose much yet, and we have scum to still find. If we lynch 3rd party today and scum uses 2 KP tonight, we're kind of in a precarious situation with only one serious lynch of information to go off of, and that was the crazy Day 1 mislynch. I think we're far better off looking for scum for the rest of the day than we are instantly agreeing that we shoudl lynch VE. It is super easy for scum to agree to this and look pro-town. The need to look for scum doesn't change the fact that we should lynch VE. What do you make of these 3? TestSubject893 glurio TranceStorm Trance is yet another player who just jumped on board the Wavetrain albeit with a little more effort than some of the others. Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 16:56 TranceStorm wrote:On March 20 2013 16:37 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 20 2013 16:34 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 15:46 geript wrote:On March 20 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:On March 20 2013 15:06 geript wrote:
Moc could you explain that logic more clearly. I'm not understanding that post at all. I can, if you let me know what you're struggling to follow. Surely its not the "whole thing" Here's what I mean: your problem with WoS as you summarize it is that in non-newb (non-first game) games he has more balls. You confront him on it. He turns on the 'balls factor.' You unvote based on said 'having balls' town read. Then you excuse the kita case essentially based on experienced player reading an experienced player when you say WoS isn't experienced and thus the whole case is invalid. There's nothing damning there and I can follow that at least. That said, I can't help but feel that this whole exchange is fishy because it comes off as you telling him how to act, then he acts that way, then you dismiss your vote and the case with a wave of the hand. (Pun intended). I categorize this as "Moc-type logic" but it still feels artificial to me. The last part is my real issue: For me, the case is upheld *ONLY IF* WoS hasnt pushed a lynch agenda during Day1. Thats when a sheep vote to me is scummy. From the quick filter browse i did, it looked like he satisfied the above, thus, making the case invalid to me. You say the case is upheld only if WoS doesn't push a lynch agenda D1. Honestly, I didn't remember a lynch agenda from him D1 and the only points re:lynch are a +1 on DP and a preference on GM over Zare. He even noted his meta reads are crap; I think he also called my meta reads as crap (based on previous games where Zare had at least softclaimed town early). However, I don't remember him commenting on DYH's meta read at all. I don't see a real case push from WoS D1 which makes the case still stand then right? Wow Geript.. I wrote this whole post and said fuck it. im not gonna be lazy, I will read 6 pages of WoS. It changed everything. You are right. Kita case still stands.I was wrong. this fucker did not do anything until the Kita case (which is the only stuff I read when WoS asked me to look @ his filter my derp) I was under the impression he had pushed Mr.Wiggles all of Day 1.. obviously wrong. I dindt realise the majority of his filter came from late Night1/early Day 2. And also that the majority of his filter is just talking shit. There is not a clear agenda. I need to read WoS defense of Kita case one more time, because I wasnt satisfied the first time around; but was giving undue credit for pushing a case Day1. For your reference, the below is the post i was about to make before reading WoS filter. + Show Spoiler +
(1) "Balls"
Now for what you raised:
I didnt unvote WoS because he turned the balls factor on... that would be invalid (cos i gave him a way out)..
The way it went down: I skipped to the most recent page, saw that limp post of him and was like WTF, WoS doesnt play like that and made my meta validation vote post. It was that simple. I think its pretty obvious when i voted him, it was with intention to lynch.
He then identified to me, that he had "balls" before the meta case. As such, the meta case post in my opinion became his saving grace.
(2) Why lynch push is important
I know you love poker. so let me me analogous to that.
Pros expect a certain level of play, and can actually struggle against newbies, because they dont understand/conform to the "rules' of the game and make unpredicatable/stupid plays.
I believe that was the basis of kitaman case on WoS. Those tells on someone like DP would indeed be the nail in the coffin. Unfortunately I dont find them as strong on newbies, because typically they are not as aware of what constitutes good play; or the ramifications of their own play.
Hence why I said, Kita case points are indeed valid scum tells; but to me only point to a scum WoS if he hasnt pushed a lynch candidate hard. (That would be the turning point for me to consider the tells as scum, and not newbie town being unaware/stupid).
(3) Is the case invalid - i.e. did WoS push anyone hard
I need to do a proper read of his filter, instead of just a couple pages.
Based on Day2 play, I thought he pushed ppl; hence my retraction of vote.
Based on Day1 play, I havent read it (yet.. planning to tonight)
If WoS indeed only discussed "Im not familiar to know these meta reads" and didnt push a lynch vote, then I would give serious consideration to Kita case, and most likely lead to a vote on WoS.
Unfortunately, I am making a leap of faith currently that the targets WoS pushed today (i.e. Mr.Wiggles etc) are the same ppl from Day1. If that is the situation at hand, then I think Kita case is invalid in full.
err no he didn't push any agenda D1. I was going to point this out too: In fact as of N1 Wiggles was one of his "strongest town reads". By early D2, Wiggles was the scummiest person in the thread to WoS. The conversion does not look convincing to me. Look into this as well as my post above and tell me what you think. Good spot, its an astonishing 180 degree turnaround. Moreover, in the posts you quoted earlier, he acts in a very arrogant manner as if to suggest the town is playing poorly; now he wants us to believe that he has been playing a poor townie all along. I can't buy the emotional appeals he's making. I think that you are making a little too much of the cosmicomics connection at the moment though. That can be looked into if WoS does indeed flip red. Mind you, if WoS is scum, then my suspicions against TPS are probably completely wrong. And now he's wrong about both me AND TPS! I still think glurio is town based on gameplay alone, though if you consider the fact that he's barely been to the thread at all, that's scummy glurio. I'll be able to tell his alignment for sure if he comes back and contributes a little. If he doesn't at all, he's scum. TestSubject I got nothing. I have to go look.
as soon as i stopped shitting all over him testsubject decided he couldn't be bothered to continue to appear to hunt scum
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Oh Wiggles is scum for sure, and I was voting him before this stupid VE shit popped up.
Vig that guy.
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EPT
