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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 13:41 ThePeashooter wrote:
Sorry for my apathy. There were a certain few parts in this game that completely destroyed my will to play. Based off the most recent set of posting it looks like LayAbout is scum to me. I really don't think the WoS claim or my rolecheck can be questioned if you actually care to look at the evidence and he seems to just be trying to cause chaos.
My apathy caused by certain players this game combined with me actually being really busy the last couple of days lead to me playing an extremely lackluster game. I really did intend on delivering more and better analysis but I just didn't have the time to do it the last few days.
I 100% agree that layabout is scum, but cosmic is as well. They just fake claimed to ensure their survival after we basically all agreed that we would be lynching them back to back the next two cycles.
We need your vote on cosmic since that is where we have all consolidated on and we will lynch layabout tomorrow.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Anyone find it amusing how cosmic and layabout had DarthPunk as their number one scum read, then DarthPunk suddenly decides to vote me, and they don't blink an eye swapping back to vote with their mafia read?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I'm pretty sure cosmic wasn't lying when he said he could swing things either way. He thought I was mafia and tried to get me to cooperate with him to achieve a mafia/third party victory.
Anyone notice how he never mentioned a second recruit besides layabout? Layabout was masoned day one, VE was masoned day two and rejected, mystery player X was masoned day three and likely accepted because he didn't claim the mason in the thread and I was masoned day four.
It's likely either going to be 7v3 or 6v4 after night kills depending on if a modkill was a flip and assuming the mafia team still has two kp.
Imagine if we had mislynched last cycle. Town would have had 5-6 players remaining.
With layabout + cosmic + player X and 3-4 mafia players, depending on the modkills and if layabout or player X was originally scum, the third party and mafia team would control the lynch.
Last cycle would have been GG for us if we didn't lynch cosmic.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 28 2013 08:40 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 08:37 kitaman27 wrote:
I'm pretty sure cosmic wasn't lying when he said he could swing things either way. He thought I was mafia and tried to get me to cooperate with him to achieve a mafia/third party victory.
Anyone notice how he never mentioned a second recruit besides layabout? Layabout was masoned day one, VE was masoned day two and rejected, mystery player X was masoned day three and likely accepted because he didn't claim the mason in the thread and I was masoned day four.
It's likely either going to be 7v3 or 6v4 after night kills depending on if a modkill was a flip and assuming the mafia team still has two kp.
Imagine if we had mislynched last cycle. Town would have had 5-6 players remaining.
With layabout + cosmic + player X and 3-4 mafia players, depending on the modkills and if layabout or player X was originally scum, the third party and mafia team would control the lynch.
Last cycle would have been GG for us if we didn't lynch cosmic. Yup, I agree and I do not regret it; but we can't afford any more mistakes the rest of the game. Tonight hasn't been particularly active at all and I'm not sure where to go from here in terms of lynch targets for tomorrow. Thoughts, kita? Especially since you thought cc/layabout were lying about being 3rd party.
Well I was right about cosmic lying considering its almost certain that they wouldn't have sided with town, I was just wrong about his actual alignment. layabout still could be mafia after his original alignment returned. I'll have to check how his play on day one to day two changed when his alignment changed.
DarthPunk in particular fought extra hard to get me lynched last cycle. It's quite possible that he was trying to push a mislynch to ensure the mafia/third party victory. He had a scum read on cosmic, cosmic comes out with his bizzare role claim and a mafia read on DarthPunk, and then the next moment, all three of them are voting together like a happy family to vote me. With my focus on cosmic, layabout and glurio the last cycle, I never really had the time to look back at DP.
Another thing to consider is how cosmic and glurio used the excuse that cosmic was glurio's number one scum read so they couldn't possibly be the same alignment. Now that cosmic has flipped third party, there is an actual explanation on how they could have been both anti-town, yet still not part of the same team.
As for activity, I agree. It's been terrible this cycle.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 29 2013 00:12 zarepath wrote:
Kitaman
[spoiler]
Has been wrong on literally everyone he's wanted lynched. Not as certain here as I am about Kenpachi. Called CC both 3P and scum, and has framed today's discussion between glurio and layabout when both of them have gone after BH. DP called him scum and then immediately died.
How do you know what I've been wrong on literally everyone that I've wanted to lynch? Even though I believe WoS is town now, he hasn't been flipped and glurio/layabout certainly haven't flipped yet. Do you have additional knowledge of their alignments?
I admit I was incorrect about GreYMisT and Wiggles, but so was everyone else. We haven't had a single mafia lynch yet, so why does this reasoning apply to me, but not everyone else?
Where did I call CC both 3P and scum? That was just something CC made up while I was pushing for his lynch. It's possible that DP dying is an attempt to frame me for a mislynch.
I won't have time for a big post until tonight, but I'll explain why glurio or layabout is the best lynch then (assuming I don't change my mind after rereading).
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Glurio
I already outlined a case against Glurio, but that was a couple days ago so I'll update based on the events of the last few days.
Case for reference:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 24 2013 03:46 kitaman27 wrote:For tomorrow, someone I think we should be looking at is glurio. To start the game, he posts suspicion against coag, stating that coag is useless, without actually calling coag scummy. Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:16 glurio wrote:On March 18 2013 03:12 Coagulation wrote:
glurio your defending him pretty hard for someone who may have scum slipped. I don't think he's scum. I'd much rather lynch you, you're absolutely useless so far. How about spending the time scumhunting? Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 03:46 glurio wrote:
On a different note: i really want to lynch coag. Rather than actually voting for coag, he votes for DP, a player he never actually mentions in the thread. It's not like DP was more of a lynch-able candidate as there were only 2 votes on him. During the first cycle, he never actually mentions GreYMisT, which is significant considering he was the main lynch candidate for the day. He soft defends BH, without actually providing a reason why he doesn't have a scum read on him. With the day two vote, he votes for Mocsta as the lone vote. At no point in the cycle does he try to convince others to vote Mocsta, only that he was going with his "gut". After the BH flip, he explains how BH's interaction with Wiggles is scum-to-scum conversation, yet decides to vote cosmicomics. Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 02:17 glurio wrote:
Well i feel like no one bothers to read my posts this whole game, so i was a bit pissed. I'm certainly open for discussion. Glurio complains that no one listens to him, but on day one and two there was actually nothing to listen to. How are we supposed to be convinced by his posts if his only explanation is his gut? Overall, Glurio feels like an observer this game, looking to stay under the radar and lacks the town motivation to push a lynch. It seems that he cares more about survival and doing his own thing, voting for players that have no chance of being lynched. He would be a good lynch candidate tomorrow.
First I want to highlight the following post:
On March 26 2013 02:02 glurio wrote:
You still have a scum read on me even after i posted a case on CC, which is my #1 scumread at the moment, kita?
I'd like to see how you plan to make that work.
When I listed glurio and CC as my top scum reads, glurio responded with the above question. A scum glurio would very well know that I would have no explanation, even though both players would be anti-town. He tries to tie his alignment to the alignment of another player to make me question my reads.
On March 27 2013 06:49 glurio wrote:
I'll vote cosmicomics today. He couldn't convince me he is town.
Notice the wording of this post.
After the mirror claim, rather than stating "cosmic is scum", he states that "he couldn't convince me he is town." As a mafia glurio, would certainly know that cosmic is third party, the way he phrases this statement betrays the fact that he has additional knowledge about the game.
On March 20 2013 05:20 glurio wrote:
I really don't see how anyone can vote for wade fell as scum?
In his soft-defense of BH, he disregards any notion of potentially voting for him, but doesn't provide any reasoning why.
On March 27 2013 06:49 glurio wrote:
We should really look into layabout tomorrow.
Last cycle glurio expresses his suspicion of layabout, yet now he has failed to even bring him up, shifting his suspicion towards myself and ryu. Why post suspicion of a player without following through with it, unless you want to create distance from a player in case one of you two flip.
On March 26 2013 00:14 glurio wrote:
Why are your checks so terrible? Vivax was a crappy target for a check, no one doubted he was town, so was VE. Why not check some people who we actually think are scum at this point?
You tunneled me the whole game and didn't check me? Why?
On March 21 2013 05:47 glurio wrote:
Ok i believe WoS's claim and unvote him.
Look how glurio attacks WoS's checks, but refuses to actually call him scummy. He calls the checks terrible, yet never states what conclusion he comes to based on the checks. What point is there to cast suspicion on a player that you have a town read?
glurio is playing the classic backseat mafia role.
He has no interest in attracting any attention, being involved in any arguments or pushing any lynches.
If I had to pick one word to characterize his play, it would be "safe". I can't find one post that shows glurio feels strongly about a single issue
He votes for a player on day one with two other votes.
He votes for a player on day two with zero other votes.
Rather than scum hunting, he is hunting for players to vote for that will keep him out of the spotlight. Notice in his defense post about how his wasn't around for the second half of either cycle. Instead of pushing his lynch, his is throwing down his vote and returning 24 hours later to find out who flipped.
glurio is scum
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
People are all giving layabout a free pass due to his third party conversion and his attack on BH. The important thing to remember is that on day two his alignment changed. Comparing his play from day one to day two, the part the stands out is that his attacks on BH don't start until he becomes third party. On day one he doesn't mention BH, yet after being converted he suddenly wants BH lynched.
On March 27 2013 10:58 layabout wrote:Kitaman27 also straight up lies about my meta when he calls me scum. Again he is misdirecting the thread. he describes my play in those games as taking a back seat In storm mafia i was the second on the day1 redff lynch and the first serious vote on it, i also wrote a case on VE the serial killer and pushed him hard. In holy romanholy roman i spent a good while reading the 100+ pages having replaced in and then dealt with around 1 lynch before i was dt checked and spent my time spamming the thread and pushing each living player in one day. Open your eyes. Kitaman27 is scum!
##voteKitaman27
On March 27 2013 12:37 layabout wrote:
Oh and your vote on me was horsemanure i only ignored you because i didn't want to introduce another candidate.
It seems a Kitaman lynch is off the cards and cosmic isn't mafia. Lynching a survivor does nothing to reduce mafia KP and it will let them get more shots off.
##vote DarthPunk
On March 27 2013 13:55 layabout wrote:
?
voting for me is voting for not-mafia and let's cosmic the not-mafia die and benefits mafia by giving them lylos and mylos until the end
changing my vote
Give me a mafia lynch to wake up to.
##vote Kitaman27
Look how flippy floppy layabout is with his lynch target on day four. He doesn't care who gets lynched, he is just voting for the player that is most likely to have the most votes. He calls DP scum, then turns around and votes with DP. A third party player who was originally town would want a scum lynch since it would mean that if he was ever converted back, he would be in a better position. A third party player that was originally mafia would simply push whatever option was available.
layabout is scum
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 29 2013 11:27 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 15:59 DarthPunk wrote:
OK. If I get shot tonight here is what you do.
Lynch Ryu and Kita. If Kita doesn't die tonight he is basically guaranteed to be scum. plus all the stuff with Blazinghand and flying under the radar.
If Wave of Shadow doesn't die tonight he is scum and needs to be lynched.
Zarepath, geript, glurio, TPS and test subject are all probably town. They are lynchbait and have been kept around for that very reason.
DO NOT LYNCH INTO THEM!
DO NOT LISTEN TO THE BULLSHIT THAT RYU IS SPEWING.
Find out who WoS checked. See if it makes sense. I can almost guarantee that it will be zarepath. and that Either: Zarepath will die and flip green. Not die and WoS will get roleblocked.
If you get a red check out of nowhere. DO NOT BLINDLY FOLLOW IT. It is most likely MYLO at that point.
If you get a red check on Zarepath. LYNCH WoS.
GLHF
and
GG kids <3
I want to hear what people have to say regarding DP's dying words.
Saying that if you or me don't get shot that we must be scum is nonsense. Scum are the ones choosing who dies and its posts like these that leave us full of WIFOM.
Where are you currently at for today? Are you still planning to push Zarepath? What are your thoughts about my posts on glurio and layabout?
On March 29 2013 11:29 layabout wrote:
I have been a bit busy today so sorry about that. I was hoping i would die since you ruined my dreams and did so knowing it would be to mafia's benefit.
We need to lynch mafia every day but at least they were out in full frce yesterday.
Today we lynch Kitaman27 or Ryusuzaku. Tomorrow we lynch the other one.
Do you actually have a reason or did you just pick someone at random?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 29 2013 14:35 ThePeashooter wrote:
And Kita, how do you feel about Geript?
I think him and DYH are being ignored to some degree, which is a concern this late into the game, but I don't have a strong scum read on him.
Does nobody have thoughts on the two cases I just posted? zarepath, you mentioned that glurio could be scum, but there wasn't a case around to convince you. What are your thoughts now that I posted a case?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Just got back from work, will post in a bit.
We can't have votes all spread out like this.
WoS, what is your current read on glurio?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 30 2013 07:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
Right now I want to focus on DYH.
You didn't answer my question. Do you have a town or mafia read on glurio? I'll take a look at DYH and let you know what I think about the case.
On March 30 2013 07:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
Right now I want to focus on DYH. Kita you have some outstanding pressure against you and I'd like to hear your responses to those people.
All I see is glurio with his omgus, calling me scum without a case. Not sure what there is to respond to unless there is something else I missed?
On March 30 2013 05:16 ThePeashooter wrote:
Kita, what are your thoughts on Kenpachi?
Kenpachi is probably the hardest person I have reading out of anyone on TL. He generally doesn't care about looking bad to others and seems to enjoy playing to his meta. I was looking through some of his past games earlier this cycle, but I've seen play like this from both alignments, so I'm pretty much at a null right now.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
lol I'm tired of people going around saying "kita has been making great cases and I've never disagreed with any of them, but he's still alive, so he must be scum". How am I supposed to respond to that? We have a claimed dt still alive, we have a player checked by a claimed dt still alive. That doesn't make them scum. I can't explain the mafia's decision not to hit me because I'm not mafia. There are plenty of people who claim to be suspicious of me, yet no one has come up with a case.
I'm more than willing to take your vote on glurio though, even if you think I'm busing him. Just don't try to use it as a point against me when he flips red.
@greipt, I think you're putting too much focus on WoS when there are other better targets around. The roleblock question is something you can't use for or against WoS. It's an unknown variable currently so that just comes down to speculation. We also don't know if those players were shot due to the suspicion of WoS or for other reasons, so that has to be disregarded as well. It would be one thing if WoS was a mafia rolecop and he breadcrumbed his check on TPS to have his scum buddy pressure him and claim dt, but I was the one the brought up the original case and I know my alignment is town, so that's not the case.
@WoS, The DYH case looks like it has some merit and the part where you mention all his third party speculation, where he earlier mentioned that he didn't think there was a third party does look like it could be a mafia player that lost track of his stances because they weren't legitimate. I do think that glurio is a much better lynch though for the reasons I explained earlier. What do you think about the fact that glurio tried to defend himself by tying his alignment to cosmic and then forcing me to explain how they can't possibly be both scum? I think this was a really scummy defense of him.
@DYH, the last time you mentioned me was when you stated that you thought I was town and that nobody would disagree. You stated multiple times that you agreed with me on my reads. Now suddenly you change your stance at lylo. What specifically made you change your mind between then and now?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 30 2013 09:03 glurio wrote:
Kita and me can't be scum.
Kita and layabout can't both be scum.
lol this is exactly what you said between you and cosmic. Stop tying your alignment to other players. You are mafia.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 30 2013 10:14 ThePeashooter wrote:
So Kita, one thing that has been bugging me. When I asked you to post your thoughts on Wade Fell after putting forth an analysis on him, why didn't you do it? You literally never wrote anything about him at all. I'm curious to how you never thought to mention the most active/scummy/annoying player in the game at least once in your posting?
I don't recall. I probably just missed the request since its not like I would purposely ignore something if asked.
Day two I was mostly focused on WoS with my big case and then Wiggles after the dt claim. Generally I let early blue claims fix themselves with the night hits and take another look if they're still around latter. BH hadn't really caught my attention while I was looking elsewhere.
The one thing that is bugging me is that how few people are willing to defend glurio, yet there are only a couple votes on him.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 24 2013 07:15 glurio wrote:
Yes coag looked very scummy, but everyone put it down to "meta" and they had a town read, no one even considered a coag lynch. So why push something which clearly wouldn't happen anyway?
DarthPunk (3): VisceraEyes, glurio, Coagulation
Mocsta (1): glurio
Look how glurio clearly contradicts himself in his defense post. He says he "So why push something which clearly wouldn't happen anyway" and proceeds to vote for a player with 2 other votes on day one and zero other votes on day two. It can't get any clearer that he was trying to find low profile targets and move his vote to players where he wouldn't get questioned.
On March 27 2013 06:49 glurio wrote:
I'll vote cosmicomics today. He couldn't convince me he is town.
Notice the wording of this post.
After the mirror claim, rather than stating "cosmic is scum", he states that "he couldn't convince me he is town." As a mafia glurio, would certainly know that cosmic is third party, the way he phrases this statement betrays the fact that he has additional knowledge about the game.
Again, I'm bringing this up since nobody has commented on it. Why is this so difficult?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 30 2013 11:14 ThePeashooter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 10:40 kitaman27 wrote:On March 30 2013 10:14 ThePeashooter wrote:
So Kita, one thing that has been bugging me. When I asked you to post your thoughts on Wade Fell after putting forth an analysis on him, why didn't you do it? You literally never wrote anything about him at all. I'm curious to how you never thought to mention the most active/scummy/annoying player in the game at least once in your posting? I don't recall. I probably just missed the request since its not like I would purposely ignore something if asked. Day two I was mostly focused on WoS with my big case and then Wiggles after the dt claim. Generally I let early blue claims fix themselves with the night hits and take another look if they're still around latter. BH hadn't really caught my attention while I was looking elsewhere. The one thing that is bugging me is that how few people are willing to defend glurio, yet there are only a couple votes on him. Why didn't he catch your attention? He was blatantly lying and acting like a dipshit the whole game.
I remember taking a look at his filter and noticing how ridiculously spammy it was, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't one of the people I spent time analyzing on day two and I don't recall noticing anything that set off red flags. There were plenty of people I hadn't commented on at that point. In a perfect world I'd be able to write a case on every single player, but with the time restraints I had, WoS was my main time sink early that cycle.
On March 30 2013 11:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
Unvote: DoYouHas
Vote: Glurio
BA-BAM
Does this indicate that you no longer have a scum read on DYH or do you just think glurio has a better chance of flipping?
On March 30 2013 12:30 geript wrote:
Ok, sure whatever, nutter butter.
I have no idea what this nutter butter is, but I approve.
On March 30 2013 11:47 layabout wrote:
Yesterday kitaman27 was pushing for a cosmic lynch and pre-claim he may have been justified in doing so. However post-claim kitaman deliberately ignores the consequences of the claim, which there was plenty of evidence to support and very few reasons to doubt. Yesterday mafia benefitted the most from the lynch and kitman27 was aware of this but chose to push their agenda.
Why? Well he is mafia
##vote kitaman27
Even though Wiggles was town, doesn't mean he is correct. You quoting a dead man rather than coming up with a case yourself shows that you are trying to take advantage of this misguided suspicion.
As for your comment that "Yesterday mafia benefitted the most from the lynch" in reference to cosmic, I already explained how this was false.
The third party team likely comprised of three players, considering you were recruited the first cycle and the person cosmic chose to mason on day three never claimed in the thread.
Assuming there are 3-4 mafia players remaining, even if the mafia/third party overlapped, which I think is likely with you, they still would have had 5-6 votes. With a town mislynch last cycle, like you and cosmic were trying to push, we would have 5-6 townies remaining. Thus, the mafia and third party could have voted together to control the lynch today and achieve a mutual victory. Now how does this sense for mafia to benefit the most from a cosmic lynch?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Sorry to hear about your son. Glad he's ok!
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Good game all!
Thanks for hosting DrH and oats ^_^
Day four went a bit silly, but I guessed things worked out. Laya was insistent that third party could not win with mafia and that the only way we would both win would be if all four of us were converted. Realizing that we had a player that was threatening to back stab us considering he was an anti-scum faction with the entire scum list, we decided to push cosmic, knowing that we would come out terrible, but removing the laya problem and the threat of the third party potentially controlling the lynch a couple cycles down the road. We had thought that the only logical way that a third party without kp could achieve a solo victory was if he was a cult leader who could recruit every cycle and we assumed that layabout and all his other recruits would die with cosmic.
I think a recruiting mechanic where mafia can be recruited is a bit awkward since it potentially forces layabout to play with conflicting win conditions. He knows the entire mafia team, isn't allowed to explicitly mention their names, but is allowed to push cases on them for their lynch with 100% accuracy. Otherwise, I think the setup was pretty balanced and the mason/vig role was pretty interesting.
The biggest part of our success was probably choosing our night hits in a way to shape town opinion. In the previous podcast, it was universally agreed that limiting discussion during the night was terrible for town. However, this game none of us really felt any pressure from the night discussion and it was a great way for us to figure out where certain players stood.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 30 2013 23:55 layabout wrote:+i couldn't win with mafia kita 
I think I'm still confused about that one then :p
On March 27 2013 16:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Your win condition is to survive to the end of the game. The win condition of a mirror image is to make sure that you survive.
Doesn't this infer that the mirror/recruits only had to survive, not eliminate all other factions?
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Was anyone actually recruited on day three?
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EPT
