EPTI disagree with your assessment of him kenpachi and I ask that everyone take a good look at his filters.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I disagree with your assessment of him kenpachi and I ask that everyone take a good look at his filters. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:34 cosmicomics wrote: Upon review I am fine with lynching either GreYMisT or zarepath (his latest post really throws me off). Gonna go with GreYMisT because zarepath will quickly expose himself if he is indeed scum. ##Vote: GreYMisT Notice how he isn't voting GreYMisT after explaining why GreYMisT is scum. He is voting GreYMisT because "zarepath will quickly expose himself if he is indeed scum". This reason for voting GreYMisT has nothing to actually do with GreYMisT. On March 23 2013 02:34 cosmicomics wrote: All there is to say about Mr. Wiggles has already been said. Vote Mr.Wiggles Now lets take a look at his day three vote. He references a single post by BH and throws down his vote. Wiggles was probably the single most talked about player this game and this is actually the first time cosmic brings his name up. Again, he doesn't actually bring any evidence to the table, he simply jumps on board with the cases that others have presented. Now onto the important part, his day two push on VE. This is a classic example of the chainsaw defense and I expect it to get a lot of discussion during post game. For those unfamiliar with the chainsaw defense, its a common mafia tactic where you defend your scum buddy by attacking their attacker. cosmic's case against VE: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: I don't understand why we are scrutinizing Wade Fell and not even glancing over at VisceraEyes. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: ]There should be absolutely no issue with Wade Fell defending whom he thinks is a town read, unless VisceraEyes suspects that both goodkarma and Wade Fell are scum, and that Wade Fell is defending goodkarma using fabricated evidence. Nothing in VisceraEyes' case indicates that he believes this, so there is no town alibi for saying this. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: You don't say that someone makes an excellent point, and then totally ignore it when evaluating their play. But that is what VisceraEyes tries to do. He sweeps away something that he himself called "an excellent point" and misconstrues Wade Fell as wasting all his time D1 defending goodkarma, which isn't even scum indicative as his posting shows. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Therefore, the magnitude of VisceraEyes' misinterpretation is greater for he is a hypocrite in saying that Wade Fell did nothing, when he himself asserts that Wade Fell made an excellent point. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Again, more misinformation. Here VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell's usage of the mason role is indicative of him being scum. He asserts that the mason role should be used to determine alignment first and foremost. Well that's blatantly wrong. There is nothing wrong, and in fact there is something very valuable with masoning a town read in order to bounce around thoughts and ideas. Wade Fell himself explains his mason choice: On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: How is that not a sensible response? It helps Wade Fell solidify his read on goodkarma, and also helps direct goodkarma's scumhunting as Wade Fell acted as his coach. There is very good townie motivations to mason a town read. However VisceraEyes tries to push the idea that Wade Fell used his role poorly and therefore must be scum. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: Ok. VisceraEyes' hypothesis is that Wade Fell is a scum mason trying to manipulate townies. On March 20 2013 04:53 cosmicomics wrote: What VisceraEyes is doing is calling both goodkarma and Wade Fell scum, and using "town goodkarma" as evidence of Wade Fell scum. Only scum do this. This entire attack of VE is essentially a defense of BH, explaining that VE is mafia because he is misrepresenting the posts of a town. His attacks on VE are based on BH being town, but it's as if he has already made up his mind about this. He fails to strongly consider that BH could be mafia and this case is too confident to be pushed by a town player. Now I want to make the single most important part of my case. *IMPORTANT* VisceraEyes claims vet at the beginning of day two on page 54. cosmic does not address the vet claim until the very end of the cycle on page 122. From a town mindset, the single strongest reason for VE not to be mafia is the fact that there was 1 kp on night one, VE claimed the hit, and VE claimed veteran. If I'm going to push VE, I'm most certainly going to accuse VE of lying about the hit and explaining what happened to the missing mafia kp. Instead, he selectively ignores it. This is proof that cosmic was presenting a biased case against VE. He didn't care about VE's alignment, he only cared about the parts of the case he could use to prove that VE was scum. On March 21 2013 03:27 cosmicomics wrote: The most simplest explanation to this whole ordeal is that VisceraEyes is scum, jumping around from target to target to see who will latch without meaningful contribution, made up the 3P business up to sidetrack the town even more, especially since we are deep into D2 without too much consolidation after WaveofShadow claimed. VisceraEyes is scum and making crap up The simplest explanation to this whole ordeal is most certainly not that VE is scum. That would mean that the mafia had withheld their kp or double stacked their shots, VE would fake-claim a hit, and VE would fake-claim a vet. Going into day two, VE was not under so much claim that he required such a drastic move. On March 22 2013 06:57 cosmicomics wrote: Therefore if the night actions suggest that VisceraEyes' claim is indeed valid, then I swallow my pride because it is more likely that VisceraEyes is playing funky than it is for scum to sacrifice one of their KP to fakeclaim vet, and we get down to lynching goodkarma and unfolding things from there. At the end of day two, cosmic finally concedes that it is more likely that VisceraEyes is playing funky than it is for scum to sacrifice one of their KP to fakeclaim vet. Yet, at the end of day two, cosmic is still voting VE in a lynch that was decided by one vote. So why did this reasoning apply when VE was about to get lynched, but not apply moments later? Because it fitted his agenda. If he wanted to get GoodKarma lynched, he would need a abandon his views on VE. Finally, take a look at how cosmic responded to my views of suspicion on him. On March 25 2013 12:50 cosmicomics wrote: Oh yea, upon review I think kitaman27 is scum and I would be glad to duke it out with him tomorrow. He won't be dead (cuz he scum) and I won't be dead (because scum don't shoot potential mislynches). Sorry about the multi-posts. Thinks just came to me as I was reviewing things and I didn't want to lose the thoughts. At no point in the game had he mentioned suspicion of myself. Not once. Now an hour after I mention my intentions to get him lynched, he suddenly had a revelation that pointed to me being scum. He knows the only way to defend himself is to attack me and responds with a textbook omgus. I'm so confident about this one that I'd be willing to offer myself in a 1:1 trade. cosmic is scum Please read through and post your thoughts on this case. We can't have a cycle of inactivity like yesterday. I plan to address glurio, the next time I have the opportunity to post. I still have a mafia read on him. I actually agree that layabout is likely one of the remaining scum as well. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: It's very subtle isn't it? He shifts attention away from the whole VisceraEyes / Wade Fell by "letting mafia deal with them". He implants the idea into town that it is very "silly" to look into these two suspects, and that the night actions will resolve the whole issue. The bolded part shows his intent to push the focus away. So many other things to look at? Why is the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes situation something not worth looking at / trying to figure out? Why does he work to take not only his attention, but the rest of town's away from the issue onto a new topic in WaveofShadow? Guess what, the night actions did take care of the situation. You don't mislynch a claimed vet, the cycle after they claim a hit, especially when a kp is not accounted for. WaveofShadow was my top scum read, I researched and posted a case, and pushed the lynch. There is nothing here to attack me for. On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: Now, let's do a comparison case to the glurio case. Absolutely no follow up. No effort into convincing people, no effort to get opinions out of people, no effort to push the wagon. What's the difference? There isn't a pressing need to take attention off of a teammate like in the case of Wade Fell. There is only the need to maintain the image of scumhunting. Look how cosmic is taking my play 100% out of context. Wiggles was my preferred day three lynch. I posted the case on glurio because I'm trying to generate additional content, not because I'm trying to push a glurio wagon. It wouldn't make sense to try to get glurio lynched, when Wiggles is my target. But of course he knows this. As I stated earlier, I'll address glurio today, but you are currently my primary lynch target. You attack me for bringing up a second person on day three while I continue to scum hunt, but where were you to push a lynch on day three? You were completely absent from discussion. On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: Not only that, but as glurio perceptively points out kitaman27 isn't thinking holistically about the game at all, despite telling everyone that that is exactly what he has been doing. kitaman27 has been subtly working behind the sense to further mafia agenda and his inconsistencies and timings betray himself. Are you honestly trying to discredit my play because one of my top mafia reads has a scum read on another mafia player? I'm supposed to suddenly give you a free pass because this has never happened in the history of mafia? I've proven why you are scum, hiding behind an association defense isn't going to save you. On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: kitaman27 is the scum mastermind who has been manipulating town from behind the scenes. kitaman27 is the lynch for today. Vote: kitaman27 Now you're just being over dramatic. I'm suddenly the scum mastermind? If you had a problem with my WoS case on day two, why not attack me for it then? If you had a problem with my glurio case last cycle, why not attack me for it then? Why am I not worth a post until I bring up a case against you and push you for the lynch? The difference between you and me is that I care about town, you care about yourself. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: A misinterpretation. That line merely served to explain my preference of GreYMisT over zarepath, not my explanation of lynching GreYMisT. So if your preference was GreYMisT, where was your reasoning? You're voting for GreYMisT with no evidence that you think he is scum or that you're trying to push the lynch. On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: Again another misinterpretation. Wade Fell / VisceraEyes were the most talked about players and it is kitaman27 who only had a passing comment upon these two players. kitaman27 acts as if everyone needs to "bring something to the plate" when it was quite obvious why people were voting Mr. Wiggles (lurking & trying to find blame for the Ace mislynch). There's nothing "new" to bring. Again, sure other people were voting Wiggles, but why aren't you justifying your vote? You're essentially admitting to sheeping town sentiment. You never mention Wiggles the day earlier and put in absolutely no effort to push anyone else. On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: Again, another misinterpretation. All kitaman27 is doing here is saying that I'm scum because I was wrong about Wade Fell. That is certainly not what I'm saying. I'm saying you were using a chainsaw defense with your attack on VE. On March 26 2013 03:12 cosmicomics wrote: This is a closed setup game with unconventional roles (the Nightmare). There is nothing from my role PM or the setup that gives me insight to how scum KP works. In a closed setup it is dangerous to make normal game assumptions so I take everything with a grain of salt. I find that even 2 initial KP is strange (again, in the post but edited out by kitaman27). Objectively looking at his playstyle alone I found him scum, and because the time of the post comes after the lynch, there is time to reevaluate. Since I was going to get information from N2 actions, of course there is time for reconsideration, but I don't bank on N2 actions to dictate my D2 play. That's foolishness. Stating that you don't have knowledge of the mafia kp formula doesn't give you an excuse to discard common sense. A 25 person setup isn't going to involve mafia having a single kp. You never speculate what reason you believe triggered VE to fake claim his vet status. At the end of the cycle, you yourself admit that it was more likely VE was telling the truth about the vet, than mafia hiding a kp and fakeclaiming. However, as you were pushing the lynch, you refused to take it into account. That is a biased case. On March 22 2013 06:57 cosmicomics wrote: Furthermore, kitaman27 exposes himself as a hypocrite. In his defense of VisceraEyes, he says himself that the vet shot is a non factor. kitaman27 is a hypocrite. He accuses me of failing to do something that all townies do when he himself did just the same thing. That is indicative of a mafia inconsistency, because they have to lie and act deceitfully to get mislynches. Let me repeat that. The single most important part of his case is something that he himself didn't believe in. lol I'm not even sure what you are saying here. I'm saying that VE's vet claim does not change my town read on him to a mafia read. That's because the vet claim aligns itself with a town explanation. What I'm saying about you is that if you have a mafia read, then you better have an explanation about the role claim that points to him being town. I'm not being hypocritical and you're twisting my words. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 02:02 glurio wrote: You still have a scum read on me even after i posted a case on CC, which is my #1 scumread at the moment, kita? I'd like to see how you plan to make that work. I don't feel that his alignment invalidates my case against you. If he is your number one scum read, then where is your vote? Where do you stand between my case on him and his case on me? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 01:50 TestSubject893 wrote: I like this a lot and agree with the conclusion. Cosmicomics is definitely in my top 2 targets for today. Do you intend to help me push a cosmic lynch or do you plan on sticking on WoS this cycle? If we were ever to lynch a mafia roleblocker, it essentially solves the WoS case. He looks like he is putting in enough effort that I don't think he's the best lynch today. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 04:44 zarepath wrote: I'd like kita and CC's thoughts on layabout and WoS and why they think their scum read is scummier. From my experience with a scum layabout in Storm and Holy Roman, a mafia layabout likes to take the back seat and let others do the dirty work. After reading back through those two games, there wasn't a single instance where he lead his own lynch. I think that matches up pretty closely with this game. His votes on DarthPunk and Zarepath gained nearly no traction and he seemed fine with that. He did advocate a BH lynch, but with absolutely no intensity. At point point he mentions that the goal is to lynch mafia, then suggests a VE lynch who he believes is third party. After Wiggles has been agreed upon, he doesn't try to promote further discussion. Something else I've noticed with layabout is that he is often asking other people questions, but not following up on them. It seems like he values looking town more than actual scum hunting. I'd be quite willing to lynch him next cycle, with glurio as the alternate candidate. Once cosmic is lynched, I think glurio vs layabout will give us a good idea where the intentions of the remaining town members lie. WoS I had a strong mafia read early on, but the apathy that worried me before seems to no longer be the case. He is one of the few players that is contributing and seems to care about town. The way he has explained his role checks is sketchy, but I attribute his behavior more to being a newer player than a player with malicious intentions. I think it is unlikely that a mafia team would allow him to pick checks like vivax and VE without coaching. I currently have a town read on him. I think cosmic is the superior choice to be lynched this cycle because I'm quite confident in my case that I presented. - cosmic only pushes lynches when it seems to benefit him. He was extremely passive on day one and day three. In his defense, he states that I had misinterpreted his posts. There is nothing to misinterpet. He puts absolutely no effort in pushing lynches on those cycles and does not have the town motivation to post. Yet when a mafia objective is on the line, he shows up with a chainsaw defense on day two and an omgus attack on day four. - cosmic claims to have a mafia read on VE, but fails to consider the vet claim pointing to him being town during the lynch. This shows that he is attempting to push a lynch not based on the evidence in front of him, but based on the conclusion he hopes to reach. Furthermore, he makes no attempt to explain what motivation as mafia VE has to fake claim day two or lie about his mirror logs. If I'm considering a player for a lynch, these aren't things that I ignore and brush off as irrelevant. - cosmic does a complete 180 at the end of the cycle, suddenly deciding that the vet claim does point to him being town. He never explains why the ordeal with BH no longer applies. At the end of day two, he was still voting for VE at a point where a single vote would decide the lynch. - cosmic never mentions me in the entire game, yet the moment I claim to intend to go after him, he decides that I'm a veteran mafia mastermind. cosmic is likely a veteran smurf himself and if I had to guess, he's actually the one calling the shots. He attacks me for my case on glurio on day three, yet it was clear that Wiggles was my priority and that glurio was someone I was trying to apply pressure to. He criticisms my case on WoS, yet had no issue at the time it was posted. He is more than willing to explain why I'm scum for events that happened two cycles ago, which he was perfectly fine with at the time. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:31 cosmicomics wrote: kitaman27, if I'm the one calling the shots, please demonstrate how my actions have mislead the town to 3 consecutive mislynches. I've already done so for you, and you are quite a reasonable mafia head given that you are still alive during D4. On March 26 2013 13:41 cosmicomics wrote: geript: why hasn't scum shot kitaman27 yet? lol your case has come down to "kita is alive, he must be scum!" I've been alive on d4 10 out of my last 12 games as town. But of course you didn't even bother to confirm if your reasoning even makes sense. Your only objective is to push my mislynch ignoring the facts, just like you did with VE. glurio has cosmic as his number one scum read, test has cosmic in his top two scum reads, geript brings forth further evidence why cosmic is scum, yet I'm the only person voting for him. Does nobody care about this game anymore? In the last 12 hours we had one person other than myself or cosmic post and the cycle is nearly 3/4 of the way over already. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:39 layabout wrote: It would have been dumb for us to keep VE around and killing him has pretty much confirmed that the mirror exists. Is this a scum slip? The way you phrase this makes it sound like you killed VE. "It was dumb for us to keep VE around" is what I'd expect from a town standpoint. "It would have been dumb for us to keep VE around" infers that we didn't keep VE around. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 04:00 layabout wrote: That list is players that we should not lynch at all. Also know as players that i would have expected to be killed or obviously town players. Kitaman27 are you being intentionally dumb? You listed those players asking why are they still alive, which I inferred meant that you wanted them dead. Is this not the case? If you're asking for the sake of asking, what would you speculate the reason for them being alive? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:54 geript wrote: @Kita. You made the original case on WoS, how did he become confirmed townie? How do you explain the missing roleblock? I can't explain the missing roleblock. It's missing. The only explanation I can think of is that either the mafia team didn't roleblock night one or they buried the roleblock in a kill. I never called him confirmed townie, but I've changed my mind on him from my original case based on his play on late day two and day three. It does concern me that he has been completely absent this cycle, but I still would prefer cosmic and layabout to die first. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 10:45 layabout wrote: Cosmic makes the point that Kitaman has been misdirecting us. After re-reading it turns out that Kitaman27 is the one who raised a bunch of suspicion and posting around Vivax by tring to make an issue out of a scumslip that we should have just ignored. lol that occurred in the opening hours of the game and was dropped moments later. Is this honestly the best you can come up with? On March 27 2013 10:45 layabout wrote: Wiggles dying words were to warn us about kitaman27 and we should not dismiss them out of hand. Wiggles also had a cosmic scum read, but clearly that doesn't fit your case. How about explain things yourself, rather than hide behind a dead man. On March 27 2013 10:58 layabout wrote: Kitaman27 also straight up lies about my meta when he calls me scum. Again he is misdirecting the thread. he describes my play in those games as taking a back seat In storm mafia i was the second on the day1 redff lynch and the first serious vote on it, i also wrote a case on VE the serial killer and pushed him hard. In holy romanholy roman i spent a good while reading the 100+ pages having replaced in and then dealt with around 1 lynch before i was dt checked and spent my time spamming the thread and pushing each living player in one day. Open your eyes. Kitaman27 is scum! ##voteKitaman27 I'm not lying. You were the second person on redff, then you proceed to not post in the entire thread the remainder of the cycle. Sure you pushed VE for like six days or whatever, but you clearly didn't put in enough effort to get him lynched considering he survived until endgame. bugs was calling the shots that game and it was pretty clear. We're not disagreeing about Holy Roman so I don't see how I could possibly be lying. I think the most telling thing is how unwilling layabout is to go after cosmic. Voting cosmic would be his only possible chance at survival, yet he decides to go after me instead. I find it extremely likely that we've found a pair of scum buddies. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 11:36 cosmicomics wrote: Ok so all creepyness aside, I'm the Mirror and layabout is my star crossed lover. I'm almost positive that he is town. I picked him because he seemed like he was a low focus player who can survive mislynches / shots till LYLO with me. That's my, and now layabout's wincon. We just have to make it till LYLO. If one of us dies, the other dies too. We get a 1KP bullet proof vest a night, but I have to choose whether it is on me or layabout, and once it absorbs a hit it's gone. We still have it. cosmic clearly doesn't win by surviving with town. This is all nonsense. Remember on day two how he manipulated VE into thinking he was being recruited? And then he proceed to push for his lynch? He made no effort in clearing the suspicions that VE was third party. He pushed a mislynch for the "lulz". This isn't play indicative of a player that wins with town. A survivor with a bulletproof vest uses his mason ability to scum hunt and then use the town cred to never be lynched. They don't push mislynches for their own amusement. I tried to chat with him 1:1 in real time to get a read on him, but he dodged me at everyone opportunity. He claims to have been trying to figure out my alignment, yet every opportunity I requested to chat, he brushed off. After writing a case against me which proved how sure he was that I am scum, now that people agree I am town, he backtracks and jumps on another player with DarthPunk. He claims to have reread the thread to discover that I was mafia earlier, now he admits he hasn't been reading the thread very closely at all. cosmic and layabout were almost certainly going to be lynched the next two cycles. I pegged them as scum, they couldn't misdirect the lynch and this is their last ditch effort to swing things. Notice how they waited until only a few hours left in the cycle to pull this stunt. They're hoping that we buy into their story and do a last minute panic switch without thinking things through. It's also possible that this ploy would allow their kp to remain at two for another night. cosmic needs to be lynched this cycle. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 13:12 DarthPunk wrote: Because there is absolutely ZERO reason for scum to fake claim right now. They are clearly winning. So why just throw away two scum members for no reason? It makes no sense at all for mafia to fake claim. It makes perfect sense for 3rd party to help town right now because we are in an awful position. That is why I believe the claim. No one should not believe the claim. Yourself and Ryo are basically claiming scum right now. ##Vote: Kitaman27 Are you kidding me? There were 5 votes on cosmic and 3 votes on layabout before this claim. One of them was most certainly going to get lynched this cycle. There is only a couple hours in the cycle remaining. Do you expect that we were going to suddenly decide to all swap to WoS or something? They have every reason to fake claim for survival right now. The moment cosmic flipped scum, everyone was going to lynch layabout the next cycle. This is their only chance. You say that cosmic wants to work with town, but ignore the fact that he trolled VE and tried to push his mislynch? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Wave, there was absolutely no reason for cosmic not to fake claim at this point. There was a 95% chance that he was getting lynched so he claims third party and tries to move the lynch elsewhere. If he is scum before, he is about to die and needs to find a way out of it, what reason is there to believe a word he says? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 13:21 WaveofShadow wrote: I find the claim fairly believable actually since I don't see scum getting two mason roles while we only get one. What incentive does a non-mafia player have to pm VE, trick him into thinking he has been recruited, and then push for a mislynch once VE reveals the mason logs. If the mirror was simply a third party survivor, he could use his mason to help town and scumhunt, then use the town cred to not get lynched. There is no reason to worry about a hit because he has a bulletproof vest. Are you really willing to ignore player analysis which showed that cosmic was scum in favor of setup speculation, that we have no proof of? On March 27 2013 13:24 cosmicomics wrote: Bold is kitaman trying to lynch me for being 3rd party. Red is kitaman trying to lynch me for being scum. Nowhere does kitaman actually try to evaluate what I actually am or the repercussions that lynching me will bring. Where do I call you third party in bold. This is a lie. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
What incentive does a third party player have to frame VE via mason chat, push his lynch hard in the thread, and defend a player that is scum. If you guys are going with the "each alignment has one mason" approach, then think about this: With greymist flipping town mason, and cosmic being a mason himself, he would come to the conclusion that BH would be a scum mason. Rather than pushing him, he defends him and pushes a VE lynch. cosmic is mafia, he has used his mason ability to push a mafia agenda. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 27 2013 13:33 WaveofShadow wrote: So a Dreamer? Can you confirm that you die if cosmic does, because that's not what your last post makes it seem like. Their fake claims don't even line up. cosmic claims that when one of them dies, they both die. layabout claims that he was town, was converted to third party, and would be converted back to town if cosmic dies. | ||
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