|
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On March 16 2013 05:54 FiveTouch wrote:This point about the list-post is terrible. Really terrible. What about the contents of the list post? I agree with most of the reads and I agree with most of the reasoning behind the reads. In addition, he said he needed to look into you, and then subsequently did so, making a series of natural posts regarding how you were posting and your alignment. ~marv
Expanding on this a bit, check out this series of events:
On March 15 2013 14:39 Promato wrote:
....snip....
Hapa has been oddly quiet. In small minis like this, town Hapa is usually a pretty good driving force for conversation. I might have to give that head a good look very soon, because with the Adam/Snarfs town flip, they do look noticeably worse.
...snip....
-Yam
On March 15 2013 14:58 FiveTouch wrote:
Yo, yam: since you're here:
How do you feel about iamp saying earlier that as scum he doesn't like to be in the spotlight...then proceeding to stay out of the spotlight for most of the game?
On March 15 2013 15:00 Promato wrote:
Is that a loaded question?'
Obviously it looks bad, coupled with what I've said about Hapa.
On March 15 2013 15:05 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 15:00 Promato wrote:
Is that a loaded question?'
Obviously it looks bad, coupled with what I've said about Hapa. No, its not a loaded question. I wanted some actual thoughts about it. Do you think he's been intentionally avoiding the spotlight? He has had flashes of his town arrogance, but for the most part has been quiet. Do you think a scum iamp would basically out himself in the thread like that? I mean, anyone who is familiar with iamp knows that already, but its one thing for everyone to know something, and another thing for you to personally tell them what makes you scum and then...keep doing it.
On March 15 2013 15:08 Promato wrote:
I don't like focusing on WIFOM like that.
What I do know is that they are both collectively confident, spam-happy town players normally, and I am not feeling that from their filter this game. It's markedly off, and it's something I have noted, but then again, most everyone is playing low-activity for their normal selves.
Then just a few minutes later:
On March 15 2013 15:18 Promato wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 15:04 DrParnassus wrote:On March 15 2013 15:00 Promato wrote:
Is that a loaded question?'
Obviously it looks bad, coupled with what I've said about Hapa. Iamp/Hapa hydra has a pretty big filter this game though, how can you say that Iamp isnt being in the spotlight? I just reread that filter, and it's Hapa who is being active, not iamp. I really don't feel like they're worth pursuing any longer. Hapa does not look disinterested, despite the low activity. Compared to some, he is kind of spammy actually.
I think this line of dialog makes it very likely that Promato is town. He came in with a decently strong scumread on ObsQT. Then I gave him even MORE reason to think that Promato was scum, with the iamp thing. But then he up and changes his read.
I don't see a scum Promato doing that. I was actively trying to get him into some discourse about a potential scum suspect and get some genuine thoughts, and he could have used it to cement his read further and have more ground for pushing. But he didn't. If he's scum, he closed off one of his potential mislynch options, under no pressure to do so.
~Keir
|
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On March 16 2013 06:06 Promato wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 06:03 FiveTouch wrote:
I still think he's town. Everything reads as pretty genuine to me. I understand the flow of the filter and the thoughts. I'm not totally certain about this, but I think so.
~marv Read the post I quoted. It's the only time he even MENTIONS Witty while town is fawning over lynching him. Not only was he otherwise ignorant of town's escapades, but he didn't even bother giving a read on the guy other than saying he's "willing to lynch him". Come on, Marv, this is scum VE and you know I know.
Oh and misunderstanding - I was talking about you in that nested quote, not OE.
~marv
|
HAHA!
I got to him first!
Lol. Anyway, good to know we're on the same page.
|
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
I know this game has been somewhat slow and we lynched a townie Day 1, but for a 30 page game it's been surprisingly productive.
~marv
|
On March 16 2013 06:08 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 05:54 FiveTouch wrote:This point about the list-post is terrible. Really terrible. What about the contents of the list post? I agree with most of the reads and I agree with most of the reasoning behind the reads. In addition, he said he needed to look into you, and then subsequently did so, making a series of natural posts regarding how you were posting and your alignment. ~marv Expanding on this a bit, check out this series of events: Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 14:39 Promato wrote:
....snip....
Hapa has been oddly quiet. In small minis like this, town Hapa is usually a pretty good driving force for conversation. I might have to give that head a good look very soon, because with the Adam/Snarfs town flip, they do look noticeably worse.
...snip....
-Yam Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 14:58 FiveTouch wrote:
Yo, yam: since you're here:
How do you feel about iamp saying earlier that as scum he doesn't like to be in the spotlight...then proceeding to stay out of the spotlight for most of the game? Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 15:00 Promato wrote:
Is that a loaded question?'
Obviously it looks bad, coupled with what I've said about Hapa. Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 15:05 FiveTouch wrote:On March 15 2013 15:00 Promato wrote:
Is that a loaded question?'
Obviously it looks bad, coupled with what I've said about Hapa. No, its not a loaded question. I wanted some actual thoughts about it. Do you think he's been intentionally avoiding the spotlight? He has had flashes of his town arrogance, but for the most part has been quiet. Do you think a scum iamp would basically out himself in the thread like that? I mean, anyone who is familiar with iamp knows that already, but its one thing for everyone to know something, and another thing for you to personally tell them what makes you scum and then...keep doing it. Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 15:08 Promato wrote:
I don't like focusing on WIFOM like that.
What I do know is that they are both collectively confident, spam-happy town players normally, and I am not feeling that from their filter this game. It's markedly off, and it's something I have noted, but then again, most everyone is playing low-activity for their normal selves. Then just a few minutes later: Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 15:18 Promato wrote:On March 15 2013 15:04 DrParnassus wrote:On March 15 2013 15:00 Promato wrote:
Is that a loaded question?'
Obviously it looks bad, coupled with what I've said about Hapa. Iamp/Hapa hydra has a pretty big filter this game though, how can you say that Iamp isnt being in the spotlight? I just reread that filter, and it's Hapa who is being active, not iamp. I really don't feel like they're worth pursuing any longer. Hapa does not look disinterested, despite the low activity. Compared to some, he is kind of spammy actually. I think this line of dialog makes it very likely that Promato is town. He came in with a decently strong scumread on ObsQT. Then I gave him even MORE reason to think that Promato was scum, with the iamp thing. But then he up and changes his read. I don't see a scum Promato doing that. I was actively trying to get him into some discourse about a potential scum suspect and get some genuine thoughts, and he could have used it to cement his read further and have more ground for pushing. But he didn't. If he's scum, he closed off one of his potential mislynch options, under no pressure to do so. ~Keir
Yeah this is the part that I initially found wieeeeerd about his filter. Yamato railed on me for being passive (and lynched me) in Duel Mafia. It's very strange to see him not doing the same thing here.
Originally I was thinking it was because he knew I was town. Though reading that conversation over again, nothing about his comments there seem forced at all.
Perhaps it was a bit rash to call him scummy for it. I want to see where he takes this VE thing.
|
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
Different games Hapa, and he only truly got a hard-on for lynching you Day 3.
~marv
|
awehfakjdfaksdfakjnf I'm always so wishy washy on VE 'cause he always gives me a gut town read on him regalrdess of allignment.
So reading through VE's filter, he does do a ton of soft-pushing on the WittyHydra lynch. In fact he kinda softpushes... everyone.
This post for example...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=22#435
...spreads suspicion on myself, DrParnassus, and the Golems all in one shot.
Looking through his filter, I don't think he ever tries to defend a player, nor do I ever get the sense he has a town read on anyone. It doesn't read like "natural town paranoia" either. Generally townies have atleast one town read or someone they feel good about despite being naturally paranoid. This hydra seems to seize on any opportunity they can to make someone look bad.
|
The Last Will And Testament of ObliviousEyes
There are a couple of points that I want to raise before starting. First, after a long discussion with my other head, I've come to the conclusion that this game is much deeper than I'd originally anticipated. I quickly realized that while our ultimate reads of a couple of players were the same, we disagreed on a few key players for various reasons…but chiefly among them was the fact that we have differing reads between heads of hydras, and we disagreed on the implications of this. I subscribe to the school of thought that we should be reading the slot and not trying to read the individual players at this point, mainly because early on I was having conflicting reads between heads (Oats/thrawn, iamp/Hapa). OO however has been trying to read the players rather than the intentions of the slot which is an interesting approach, but ultimately useless in my opinion because there are some players (Hapa, marv, Bugs) who are going to be able to look townie regardless of their actual alignment.
We decided that we are going to continue to take different approaches to scum hunting moving forward. I feel like in this way we have a better chance of missing something the other misses. But as a result, the reads I'm about to give are my reads, not OO's. We agree on a few, but these are ultimately my thoughts. I'm not aware of whether he intends to give his final thoughts, I didn't think to ask because I had intended to myself.
So without further ado:
VisceraEyes N1 Reads
Dirk Hardpec - The problem I have with their play in this game is this: they are willfully trying to remain unreadable and create confusion surrounding their slot. There is literally no town-motivated reasoning for this. All he's done is repeatedly call FT mafia for the same shitty reasoning: he's mad. WTF kind of reasoning is this? And in spite of being so certain of marv's guilt, his vote ended up on the lurker wagon?
He promises to "convince us he's town tomorrow". I think Dirk should be our lynch tomorrow unless he does no less.
NewbieXXXI_ObsQT - Hapa's posting certainly made me feel better about the slot, but ultimately both heads of this hydra pretty much all but disappeared from the thread in the hours leading up to the lynch. Considering the target was a townie, and the fact that it was originally NXXXIOQT that brought up the lurker lynch in the first place (DrP mentioned Witty, but NXXXIOQT was the one who ultimately brought Witty to FT's attention, which is in my opinion the original genesis of the lurker wagon) I'm going with my initial instinct on this slot - that NXXXIOQT was only interested early on in shoveling shit into the thread for no purpose other than make it unreadable.
Moology - Early on I was red on Moo, because of his misrepresentation of my post in his argument with DrParnassus. However, I was able to catch up with Mocsta later on and I buy that he just misunderstood my post. He hasn't done anything really overtly scummy aside from that, but I'm a little uneasy about something with Mocsta this game. Pressure this slot hard in the next phase, I have a feeling he'll tell you whether or not he's scum. He would be red, except I feel much stronger about the above two lynches and don't think Moo should be considered tomorrow unless his play tomorrow warrants it.
TLCastingGolems - I've been going back and forth with this slot. Originally I didn't like their casting, then I liked it, but now that they're not roleplaying, they seem mostly interested in defending themselves rather than looking for scum. This is another slot that should receive a lot of scrutiny in the next phase.
No one else should be considered for lynch imo.
|
On March 16 2013 06:27 FiveTouch wrote:
Different games Hapa, and he only truly got a hard-on for lynching you Day 3.
~marv
Yamato was going after me pretty super-hard on Day 1 as well. He dropped it to go after Acro on Day 2, then resumed on Day 3.
Anywho yes this is a different game. I also agree with him quite a bit on VE/OO looking through their filter. Promato seems fine for now.
|
wow wow wow, VE take a step back now.
Give me a quick run down of what you think of me and Yam.
We're one of your towniest reads. It shouldn't be hard to tell me why.
p
|
Your initial speculation re: Named VT made me think critically about the setup. Yamato's push on me feels genuine, misguided though it be.
I won't support a lynch on you two. That's all you should care about.
|
@ VE
Is OO going to give his thoughts as well? You said you're posting your collective last will and testament, yet said that these were your own reads.
Secondly:
NewbieXXXI_ObsQT - Hapa's posting certainly made me feel better about the slot, but ultimately both heads of this hydra pretty much all but disappeared from the thread in the hours leading up to the lynch. Considering the target was a townie, and the fact that it was originally NXXXIOQT that brought up the lurker lynch in the first place (DrP mentioned Witty, but NXXXIOQT was the one who ultimately brought Witty to FT's attention, which is in my opinion the original genesis of the lurker wagon) I'm going with my initial instinct on this slot - that NXXXIOQT was only interested early on in shoveling shit into the thread for no purpose other than make it unreadable.
I'd understand if you thought our collective passivity made us scummy, but this doesn't make very much sense.
1) You say we're trying to make the thread "unreadable" by "shoveling shit" or whatever. You seem to be the only person in this thread with that attitude. No one else here has had problems with our posting, and in fact it's been less than normal for the both of us. Hell this game is really readable. There are only 30 pages of filter for crying out loud.
2) I was active in the hours leading up to the lynch. Whats with this "dissappearence" thing?
3) So what if I pushed the Witty lynch? He was scummy as fuck, and you agreed with us yourself. Me pushing a lynch of a player who didn't give a crap about the game is completely normal, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
|
Anywho now I have to step out to see some family for a couple of hours. I doubt I'll get shot given the collective suspicion against our hydra, so I'll see you all after the deadline.
Also, get your ass in here Iamp. You were supposed to carry us and make us look obv-town =/
~Hapa
|
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
I have some interesting things to say about that VE post a little later. Stay tuned!
~marv
|
On March 16 2013 06:50 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:@ VEIs OO going to give his thoughts as well? You said you're posting your collective last will and testament, yet said that these were your own reads. Secondly: Show nested quote +NewbieXXXI_ObsQT - Hapa's posting certainly made me feel better about the slot, but ultimately both heads of this hydra pretty much all but disappeared from the thread in the hours leading up to the lynch. Considering the target was a townie, and the fact that it was originally NXXXIOQT that brought up the lurker lynch in the first place (DrP mentioned Witty, but NXXXIOQT was the one who ultimately brought Witty to FT's attention, which is in my opinion the original genesis of the lurker wagon) I'm going with my initial instinct on this slot - that NXXXIOQT was only interested early on in shoveling shit into the thread for no purpose other than make it unreadable. I'd understand if you thought our collective passivity made us scummy, but this doesn't make very much sense. 1) You say we're trying to make the thread "unreadable" by "shoveling shit" or whatever. You seem to be the only person in this thread with that attitude. No one else here has had problems with our posting, and in fact it's been less than normal for the both of us. Hell this game is really readable. There are only 30 pages of filter for crying out loud. 2) I was active in the hours leading up to the lynch. Whats with this "dissappearence" thing? 3) So what if I pushed the Witty lynch? He was scummy as fuck, and you agreed with us yourself. Me pushing a lynch of a player who didn't give a crap about the game is completely normal, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
As I said, I'm not sure if OO intends to give his reads as well. I didn't ask him what he intended to do because I intended to give at the very least MY thoughts.
1) That's my initial read of iamp's post at FT re: "lynching bullshit instead of lynching scum" followed by your post expecting "AN EPIC BATTLE". I told you then that was my impression, and you're using the fact that you changed this behavior after I called you out on it as evidence of your innocence? Mkaaay...
2) That was my impression from reading the thread. Perhaps that's because of your absolute refusal to comment on my read of Dirk, and my push to get him lynched instead of the lurker. Looking back you're right, you were there pushing the lurker as hard as you could, so that's my mistake. But taken with the fact that I consider you to be the original genesis of the "kill the lurker" sentiment, that hardly changes my view of the situation.
3) I didn't agree that he was scummy as fuck, this is a misrepresentation. I said that I didn't like how he appeared to be buddying me early on, but that I agreed with something else in his play so I was ":/" re: the lurker. In normal circumstances I'd certainly agree with you, but in this particular case I felt like the case on Dirk was much stronger than "this guy isn't posting because meta".
|
On March 16 2013 07:01 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 06:50 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:@ VEIs OO going to give his thoughts as well? You said you're posting your collective last will and testament, yet said that these were your own reads. Secondly: NewbieXXXI_ObsQT - Hapa's posting certainly made me feel better about the slot, but ultimately both heads of this hydra pretty much all but disappeared from the thread in the hours leading up to the lynch. Considering the target was a townie, and the fact that it was originally NXXXIOQT that brought up the lurker lynch in the first place (DrP mentioned Witty, but NXXXIOQT was the one who ultimately brought Witty to FT's attention, which is in my opinion the original genesis of the lurker wagon) I'm going with my initial instinct on this slot - that NXXXIOQT was only interested early on in shoveling shit into the thread for no purpose other than make it unreadable. I'd understand if you thought our collective passivity made us scummy, but this doesn't make very much sense. 1) You say we're trying to make the thread "unreadable" by "shoveling shit" or whatever. You seem to be the only person in this thread with that attitude. No one else here has had problems with our posting, and in fact it's been less than normal for the both of us. Hell this game is really readable. There are only 30 pages of filter for crying out loud. 2) I was active in the hours leading up to the lynch. Whats with this "dissappearence" thing? 3) So what if I pushed the Witty lynch? He was scummy as fuck, and you agreed with us yourself. Me pushing a lynch of a player who didn't give a crap about the game is completely normal, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. As I said, I'm not sure if OO intends to give his reads as well. I didn't ask him what he intended to do because I intended to give at the very least MY thoughts. 1) That's my initial read of iamp's post at FT re: "lynching bullshit instead of lynching scum" followed by your post expecting "AN EPIC BATTLE". I told you then that was my impression, and you're using the fact that you changed this behavior after I called you out on it as evidence of your innocence? Mkaaay... 2) That was my impression from reading the thread. Perhaps that's because of your absolute refusal to comment on my read of Dirk, and my push to get him lynched instead of the lurker. Looking back you're right, you were there pushing the lurker as hard as you could, so that's my mistake. But taken with the fact that I consider you to be the original genesis of the "kill the lurker" sentiment, that hardly changes my view of the situation. 3) I didn't agree that he was scummy as fuck, this is a misrepresentation. I said that I didn't like how he appeared to be buddying me early on, but that I agreed with something else in his play so I was ":/" re: the lurker. In normal circumstances I'd certainly agree with you, but in this particular case I felt like the case on Dirk was much stronger than "this guy isn't posting because meta".
-.-
|
On March 16 2013 05:43 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 05:42 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:On March 16 2013 05:38 FiveTouch wrote:On March 16 2013 05:37 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:On March 16 2013 05:36 FiveTouch wrote:
Why the fuck is everyone so worried about me not posting much. This is not an 18 player game. It is a 9 player game. Marv speaks for our opinions, and if he's not around, I'll talk about what I feel is important.
~Keir 'cause you're a good player, and I'd expect you to be more vocal about your opinions. I'm plenty vocal with my opinions...to my partner, and we discuss them, then he brings them to the thread when we've reached a consensus. Yeah but how the fuck am I supposed to know that? Part of me reading your hydra is reading you. You not posting makes it impossible to get information out of you, and makes it impossible to hold you accountible for anything. I don't see that this matters. Hyrdas are one being. You must read fivetouch. Not kier, not marv, but fivetouch.
On March 16 2013 06:50 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
@ VE
Is OO going to give his thoughts as well? You said you're posting your collective last will and testament, yet said that these were your own reads.
-snip-
|
On March 16 2013 06:47 ObliviousEyes wrote:
Your initial speculation re: Named VT made me think critically about the setup. Yamato's push on me feels genuine, misguided though it be.
I won't support a lynch on you two. That's all you should care about.
weeee, you are scum. I'll have to buy Yam a beer later.
|
On March 16 2013 07:03 Promato wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 06:47 ObliviousEyes wrote:
Your initial speculation re: Named VT made me think critically about the setup. Yamato's push on me feels genuine, misguided though it be.
I won't support a lynch on you two. That's all you should care about. weeee, you are scum. I'll have to buy Yam a beer later.
IS THIS SHIT FOR FUCKING REAL!?
|
What the fuck ever, I'll probably die overnight anyway and you can all eat shit while still roundly ignoring my posts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
