EPTPersonality Mafia 2
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On March 08 2013 21:59 kitaman27 wrote: The OP has been updated. I've removed the following statement: As with any game, role claiming will have consequences, however this statement kind of contradicts with the spirit of the game, hindering role playing if you are worried about revealing your personality. There will not be a conditional vig based on role identities present in this game. Good, because the ways that I can impersonate my personality should lead to instant identification. | ||
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On March 10 2013 14:49 Ver wrote: Howdy Gents! I'm going for a little challenge this game and plan on winning the game without reading my role pm. As not even I will know my motivations, nobody else can judge me. Armed with this power I shall stop the town from becoming an idiocracy. I'm also considering giving myself another Personality to assist my efforts in keeping the town in order. I'll keep you all updated. Only scum or Drazerk ever tries to pull this stunt. ##vote Ver | ||
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On March 10 2013 16:26 iamperfection wrote: The following is list of players that i will have a particular interest in throughout the game and depending on the length of my particular stay will depend on heavily in my mission to hunt scum This is Not a list of probable scum but simply of players that interest me and could be of particular value to scum hunting. wherebugsgo marvellosity VisceraEyes BloodyC0bbler Foolishness Ver Acrofales I will be expecting a lot from these players and while for balance reasons there is probably a scum within them i feel that the contributions from this group will help us in our mission. Random Lynch Nonsense While we have to start the discussion somewhere Throwing our votes around all will nilly accomplishes nothing and sets up an atmosphere where are voting doesn't matter. The quicker we get to actual content the better. So Where do we start I will start as right away by saying that yamato is most likely town and the most troubling thing i found was that ve called him a and i quote "scummy fuck" when in fact yamato's agression is more likely a town tell. Ve is highly experienced player and should know this so it troubles me that he has misread the situation. As i go to sleep i will ponder this myself since ve is know to be aggressive no matter what his alignment so he may have been barking at yamato just to bark so i will need more information from him in order to get a more exact read. So discussion going forward Do we agree with me that yamatos start is more of a town tell? Do we agree that ve's misread of the situation is a point showing that he may in fact be scum? I will sleep and ponder these questions further myself and hope to see more content when i awake from everyone. I don't see the scummyness in the VE/yamato exchange. It all seems pretty null. VE being VE is not indicative of alignment and if you think otherwise you should look more into how VE plays, as either alignment. Now, I am honored, but what am I doing in a list with foolishness and ver?! | ||
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On March 10 2013 16:55 HiroPro wrote: btw I think everyone should just say who they are. since there apparently aren't any risks to doing so and I don't fancy having to determine whether or not people are acting fake because of their personality or because they're mafia. No. Stop being stupid. | ||
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On March 10 2013 20:40 risk.nuke wrote: Hi Ver or should I call you... CLICKY Ok, not just Drazerk... whose smurf was that? | ||
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On March 10 2013 23:06 Oatsmaster wrote: Thats a horrible reason to think someone is scum. Seriously do you think he is serious? Also arent you of the opinion that vets shouldnt be lynched day 1 unless scum claim in thread? That's stupid. Ver dropped in to tell us he hasn't read his role pm. Now you can believe him, in which case he is probably worth keeping around. However the chance is bigger that he is NOT rping Drazerk and HAS read his pm. Now that means he is lying and giving himself an excuse to act any way he chooses. Who needs excuses like that? Scum. I was looking forward to playing with Ver, but if he's scum, we should kill him. | ||
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Lol. | ||
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On March 11 2013 00:10 cDgCorazon wrote: 2 things: 1. I love how everyone has come in and bitched about how no one has scum hunted and conveniently forgot everything I've said about Yamato. Congratulations.... -slow claps- 2. Acro if you think that Ver is telling the truth, you are either just playing stupid or scummy. Learn to read. I DON'T think Ver is telling. the truth. If I thought he was, I wouldn't have any reason > random to vote for him, would I?! At everybody else: the most experienced player in the game comes into the thread with an excuse for ducking all responsibility: yes, I think that is more scummy than anything Mocsta, VE or yamato have done so far. Mocsta is being aggressive and dumb, which seems pretty much what I would expect from him as either alignment. VE is being. VE and yamato is throwing random suspicion around, just like he did last game as a townie. | ||
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On March 11 2013 00:40 risk.nuke wrote: Turn it around. You're trying to frame Ver as one of the best players in this game at the same time you're accusing him off being stupid of a magnitude that he would actually post that thinking it would excuse him. Lets just wait for Ver to show he has any interest in the game, shall we? Why are you so adamant about defending him, anyway? | ||
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On March 11 2013 00:41 Kurumi wrote: Well this account is only known for mild trolling but you need to remember about Vayesh and other smurfs. all the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, Sure, but Vayesh is a smurf, not a real TL personality. Also, he roleplays the game. He doesn't just spout random nonsense. | ||
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On March 11 2013 00:08 Kurumi wrote: Hello guys, It is me, Chezinu! So I see we have started this game and I am really happy to play it. I will try my best to have fun! So how about we start having fun right now? I tried this last game, but I got cursed so it was a disaster... Write down three things! One is false, rest is true! 1) I am Chezinu. 2) I have not read my role PM. 3) I don't have a day power. This is 100% a Chezinu claim. Points 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive | ||
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On March 11 2013 00:59 risk.nuke wrote: Ver is irrelevant right now. This isn't about him but about you and your conclusions. I don't have anything more to say on the matter. I've told you my reasons. | ||
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Could be either of them, but I get the impression it's Bugs faking it, while Kurumi is actually Chezinu, so town points for WBG. | ||
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On March 11 2013 01:14 marvellosity wrote: this is stupid. a player of bugs' calibre doesn't get townpoints for purposefully making his points harder to read and trolling. You think scum is deliberately fakeclaiming a personality that has a high chance of being in the game? | ||
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On March 11 2013 01:20 marvellosity wrote: he didn't claim Chezinu, unless I'm missing something. He is posting like Chezinu, unless you know someone else who talks like that, | ||
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On March 11 2013 01:24 marvellosity wrote: posting like and claiming is a completely different thing. at the moment he's purposefully making himself at least somewhat unreadable, purposefully posting in a way that contributes less than he's able. Whether it's to do with his personality, i dunno, but those are the facts at the moment. In a game where your role is another mafia player, acting like one in particular is a claim in my book. | ||
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On March 11 2013 03:03 wherebugsgo wrote: Perhaps you all know this old saying that I am about to invoke. It is well known, but often bastardized. I will set this straight now. Imagine we now live in a long past age. Our language is the language of the Sages. In this language of the wise, the ending "mi" roughly translates into "the little." It is a dimunitive title, used most commonly for the apprentice of a wizard. The evil ones are rough, but the sages are not. There is no aural difference, merely in our script. If we were to transliterate to the modern language of the flock, it would be the difference between the letters "f" and "ph," or "c" and "s" and "z," or, in our case, the difference between "C" and "K". In the past, a member of The Great Ones was old Curu, also known as The Cunning. Curu had a duality and the propensity to delve into evil, but on the whole acted as one of the influential Sages of our past. In the language of the wise, Curu means "goose", although "Curumi" means "duck." Oddly enough, "Uruc" (ooroos) translates into "mouse", and "Uruk" (oorook) is "rat". When we add a dimunitive, with "soft" letters such as "c", a vowel is added. "Uruc" becomes "Urucimi". With "hard" letters, the end vowel must be moved to the front to facilitate the dimunitive. Thus, from "Uruk" we get "Kurumi." I have thus discovered the true meaning behind the name of the impostor. After all, the old saying is that, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is most definitely a rat. This cracked me up. | ||
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So... when BC calls Ver scum for his one post you think it's reasonable, but when I do it, you vote for me?! U scum, bro? | ||
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On March 11 2013 05:18 Promethelax wrote: I see bugs thinks it is the New Years but his posting, in me, instils fear. This bugs is useless and dumb his posts do not attempt to find scum; this man does not deserve to be here. I say our WBG is corrupted his blood, when it flows, will be red. I say we must hang him, many people harangue him. He should end up dead. So I lay down my vote to elect this thug though I've read the thread slow as a slug, for the moment I think he is our best flip this man is scum, though he hasn't scum-slipped. So for now I say ##Vote: Bugs RPing Foolishness is foolish | ||
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CALM THE FUCK DOWN AND STOP POSTING NONSENSE!!! | ||
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On March 12 2013 06:24 risk.nuke wrote: Also a cool way to try to justify throwing your vote away. Glad to see you're here. Your inconsistency made my scumdar ping and you haven't explained why I am scum and You have. noproblem at all with BC for doing virtually the same thing. Explain. | ||
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On March 12 2013 06:37 risk.nuke wrote: BC is generally does little early on but don't hide behind others. How exactly did I make your scumradar ping? And do you think it's a smart thing to throw away your vote? Hide behind others? Stop deflecting. I found it very suspect that you called me out and voted for me for saying Ver's entry, and only post so far, was a scum ploy. Yet when BC calls Ver scum for the exact same post you find the read "reasonable but cheap". Basically it feels as if you are defending Ver for no reason, because it was just little ole me, but when BC calls him out you want to crawl back into the shadows and not be noticed. That is scum behaviour. As fora throw-away vote, I just gotdone reading page 31. Would you rather I vote yamato for being a derp, and probably a town derp at that? Because I prefer to read the rest of the thread and making up my own mind rather than mindlessly sheeping someone. EDIT: the internet at this airport is terrible and keeps crashing. I'll keep doing what I can. | ||
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I like that last post showing how differently bugs plays as town from his useless defeatist attitude this game, and my vote on Ver is going nowhere. I'll get back to that tomorrow. When I get home I hope I can make a better reasoned out vote, but for now: BAAAAAAA BAAAAAAAA ##vote wherebugsgo | ||
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On March 12 2013 10:07 marvellosity wrote: shrug. i'll lynch crossfire if people think bugs is a genuinely bad lynch for weird 3rd party reasons. Don't wanna kill anyone else particularly though. This is terrible. What "weird third party reasons"? Is there any evidence at all of that? | ||
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Yes. I am claiming that I have a personality! | ||
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On March 12 2013 12:20 Mocsta wrote: I know that you have been out of town, so i can live with the useless activity for Day 1. But now that you are back.. i am going to be watching you *very* carefully Does that mean there's someone you're not watching carefully? | ||
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For now I can say that Vivax entered the thread in an extremely wishy washy manner. Seemed like he wanted to lynch lurkers, but was afraid of saying so. This seems completely out of wack with his town meta, where he ALWAYS says whatever he wants. Supersoft also tried his hardest to not step on anybody's toes. He "agreed" with Iamp's post, but when questioned about it, disagreed with calling VE scum. Effectively that means he disagreed with Iamp's post. Also, a little bit about the lynch: if Vivax is scum, then there is almost guaranteed to be scum who refused to leave the WBG wagon. If he's town, then it's completely up in the air where scum ended up. Given what I think of Vivax's entry into the thread, I like the Vivax=scum theory. I will pay special attention to this list: Oatsmaster, Mocsta, austinmcc, iamperfection and prplhz. Heading to the office. Will continue reading and analysing there. | ||
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On March 12 2013 23:02 Dandel Ion wrote: You should be on that list. Self-acclaimed Sheeping onto the bugs wagon. You never make those better reasons either, but w/e Then: You need some cookies and a hug to switch from a sheepvote with no own reasoning behind it onto another sheepvote with no own reasoning behind it? wutwut I think it was perfectly clear. I got home half an hour before the lynch and there were 10 more pages, on top of the 25 I hadn't read yet. No way can I read 35 pages in enough depth to get a read on the game in half an hour. I had some idea of how Bugs was playing earlier and then when he martyred himself I didn't much like that. I also had a town read on Marv, so I just sheeped that vote. Then 10 minutes before the lynch people start wagoning a guy I had not paid much attention to at all. The reason Marv gave for not wanting to lynch WBG anymore was stupid (3P without any real evidence... and the 3P reads were all wrong, because neither bugs' role, nor the role he thought he had were anything to do with jester). So yeah, I stuck with the wagon I knew, rather than just throwing my vote on someone I hadn't analysed at all and had no clue about his alignment other than what Marv was telling me. As for me being on my own list. Fine, I'll analyse me: looks at role pm. I'm town! Analysis over. | ||
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On March 12 2013 23:21 Dandel Ion wrote: That's what I'm saying. You apply different standards to your sheeping depending on it being bugs or vivax as its subject. If you're not going to read my post, then I'm just going to ignore you. | ||
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On March 12 2013 23:37 Vivax wrote: Well anyway a little contribution to reading marv properly: Guess his alignment 1 Guess his alignment 2 Guess it 3 Way to be useless. Are you calling Marv scum or town, based on meta? What a pointless post. | ||
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On March 12 2013 23:54 marvellosity wrote: Kinda a suspicious attitude given the playerlist this game. Policy lynch me ahead of Foolish or Ver or BC or super if they're alive? I don't really expect any of them to be alive D3. Scum has 3 KP tonight and a minimum of 2 tomorrow. Medic wifom aside, all high-profile targets should be dead, or serious scumspects by D3, and you are a high-profile target. I wouldn't include supersoft in that list, btw. | ||
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Why the fuck would a scum Yamato use an anonymous vig-shot to shoot a confirmed townie and then own up to it. They could have used that power to take out some superpowered veteran with no fear of a medic, but instead use it to kill someone who was shitting up the thread. Yes, it was a fucking stupid move to shoot a modconfirmed townie. However, that doesn't make it scummy. SnB said this completely correctly. Vivax, Cora, Sloosh, VE all fail to see this, or are scum using it to try to wagon what looks at the time to be an easy mislynch. Out of these, I like Cora the least, but I'll keep reading. + Show Spoiler [brief thoughts on cora] + Cora's early game was to attack Yamato based on meta. This from a player who I distinctly recall saying all meta cases are terrible in Duel mafia. He then gets extremely paranoid about dying when Kurumi posts fake shots in the vote thread, and is extremely defensive about his contributions this game, which, at the time were minimal. Finally, when mocsta points out some stuff he thought was scummy, Cora uses some terrible misdirection to deflect the case, by saying Mocsta was just piggybacking on other people's thoughts. Not everything has to be an original thought, and if other people had good ideas, a townie SHOULD use them. Regardless of whether it was original or not, the deflection seems like a guilty conscience trying to wiggle out from explaining something he had no town explanation for. | ||
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On March 13 2013 01:54 Vivax wrote: Every bolded part is proof you didn't read this game. I didn't read the stuff after the lynch before posting today but you didn't even read early game holy shit. What's worse about this is that you forgive yamato for shooting a modconfirmed townie in your point of view and that makes even less sense than other derps/mafias saying he should stay alive. You are really calling me out for not having read parts of the thread when I have made it abundantly clear that I have not yet caught up on the thread?! Get your head out of your ass. Anyway, this was about the people calling Yamato scum BEFORE Yamato explained his role. What happened after his explanation I will figure out now. However, it still makes no sense from a "balance" PoV to give that role to scum. | ||
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On March 13 2013 02:10 Oatsmaster wrote: Ver is town I think, cause I think as scum he would give more of a fuck Like his activity goes beyond lurking, this is just inactivity. BC is also town same as ^^, also he seems to want to pick fights with everyone when he does post. I wish he would play the game though :/ Foolishness is probably scum for lying about Marv and 180ing in a horrible way. Also defended Vivax for no reason. How the hell do you have a meta town read on Ver. Like... HOW IN THE WORLD DOES THAT HAPPEN? SOO MUCH STUPID IN THIS GAME!!! | ||
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On March 13 2013 02:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Go and explain why the 'vettiest' player in TL mafia ups and posts less than 5 posts as scum. Go on, do it. Go and explain that same for town. Go on, do it. While Ver is known as a "sit back and analyse" scumhunter, he is fucking good at it and nails scum left right and center. Where has he done that this game? He also pushes his reads. Where has he done that this game? Anyway, my first post read of Ver still stands. Ver is scum because he is trying to dodge any responsibility. He has not done any of the fabled scumhunting he is so famed for. How the fuck can you have a town read on him? If you think inactivity is a town tell you are too stupid to talk to. Did you not JUST get done playing Duel mafia with Keirathi the inactive? And CT with Sandroba the inactive? And for that matter, Parallel Universe with Foolishness the inactive? | ||
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On March 13 2013 01:55 strongandbig wrote: foolishness or radfield role is town powers but scum aligned, they're well known for being amazing as town but both terrible as scum and hating to play scum. like how wbg role was town powers but scum aligned the day vig would have been the hidden "beneficial" side of the power, he wouldn't have been told about it until after the public dt check happened. I thought you were pretty levelheaded and townie at the time, but this post is not making sense to me. WBG's role was survivor, not scum aligned. His powers were meh. Unless you are talking about Kurumi, in which case he was town aligned, not scum aligned at all. The impression I got from Yamato is that he knew all along what his power would do. Now, why would scum get a DT check? It makes no sense. Even if it is combined with a dayvig. Either Yamato is lying about how his power works, or he is town. The role makes NO sense for scum. | ||
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On March 13 2013 03:20 marvellosity wrote: Does anyone else find it weird he talks about himself in 3rd person here? I know people do so occasionally but I've never seen slOosh do it I don't think. Do you think it was ghost written in the scum QT? Other than that I don't see why writing about yourself in the 3rd party is indicative of alignment at all. He could be roleplaying someone who writes about himself in the 3rd person? Ace does it a lot (but sloosh looks nothing like Ace in anything else). | ||
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On March 13 2013 02:51 marvellosity wrote: I'm pretty wary of this argument. Just because it makes no sense, it doesn't mean that it's in fact not the case ;p there's enough other reasons to make a read of the situation one way or another without worrying whether a role makes sense for a particular alignment. Fine. I see no reason why scum would use an anonymous dayvig shot to take out Kurumi, when they could use it on any one of the high profile targets. I definitely see no reason why scum would CLAIM their anonymous dayvig shot after using it, especially if the only way it gets outed is if it is first confirmed to hit a townie. Even if you think the "balance" reason is not valid, the way it was used is completely stupid for scum. Scum doesn't shoot scumspect townies who are martyring themselves and shitting up the thread. They definitely don't announce that they are doing that: they know that player is a townie. | ||
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On March 12 2013 01:30 Stutters695 wrote: Seriously guys I'm not scum. Last time xfire did this that I remember he was total scummers (MtGII), last time I did this I was still town. On March 12 2013 01:33 Stutters695 wrote: I've also never role-played I'm game before. My money is on xfire flipping scum. What the hell is this, and why did everybody move away from Stutters? I get that his later posting got a bit better, but here he claims he did this before, and was town. Then when it's pointed out that he never did this before (and he has never rolled scum, keep that in mind) he uses roleplaying Kenpachi as a "new" excuse, which contradicts his old one. Lazy scum is lazy. | ||
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On March 13 2013 04:23 austinmcc wrote: Unless you've seen yamato's PM, you don't know if it's anonymous. There was no ##Shoot: Kurumi, but the "pro GF snipe" was a pretty clear reference to MZ's shot. It wasn't like we were confused as to who had shot once it happened. Kitaman's announcements only announced MZ, not that it was Yamato as MZ. It was therefore anonymous (there were no actions in the thread or vote thread). | ||
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On March 13 2013 04:11 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Ver is lying about not reading his role. That is an active decision to play against your win con, and Ver doesn't strike me as that sort of player from my limited experience with him. He also doesn't strike me as the type of scum player who would draw attention to himself by lying in such a manner. Conversely, Ver strikes me as EXACTLY the kind of town player who would lie about reading his Role PM. Ver should be considered town Imo. Whatever that's worth. Can you expand the meta read a bit? I still think it's a scum cop-out saying "guys, I cannot be held accountable for my shit". If it was a trap, he should have come back and sprung it. He didn't. The post was just an excuse to screw around, which is exactly what he has done. | ||
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On March 13 2013 04:39 austinmcc wrote: The check, yeah. But there was a long delay before the shot. And in the intervening time, yamato posted his pro GF snipe. I agree with poor choice, but everyone seems to be using different terminology to describe what happened and it's no good. We do not know whether it was anonymous or not. We can be more sure the check/announcement was anonymous, but there's a possibility the shot was triggered by the pro GF snipe comment. Nitpicky, but you're assuming something we don't know. If the shot was not anonymous and Yamato is scum, then scum has a mod-confirmed DT check. WHY WOULD SCUM EVER USE THIS? | ||
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On March 13 2013 05:39 prplhz wrote: I think that Vivax is completely trolling by now though I haven't read really scrutinized the Vivax/VisceraEyes/marvellosity debacle. I know I said "no N1 shots" but if someone is really trigger happy then shoot Vivax. prplhz might be town. He's starting to make sense with his BC case and this post. | ||
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On March 13 2013 06:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Acro you asked me about my meta read on Ver. Do you have further comment other than "we disagree"? No. Your meta read gives a pretty good reason why he would definitely read his role PM. After that we do indeed just disagree. I don't see any reason to post like that as town, except as a trap. If it was a trap, it was a terrible one and he hasn't followed up on it. The "hours to come" better bring something fucking fabulous for me to stop seeing him as scum. | ||
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On March 13 2013 06:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Still catching up on thread but you just posted the most wtf comment ever. I have bolded it for ease. Kurumi's role was obviously one that benefited mafia more than town. IE we already have proof that roles do not have to make sense for their alignment. Roles make sense to the personality. If they RNG'd the personalities/roles then the alignments then anyone could end up up with an alignment that doesnt mesh well with their role. I find scrubblies who make bad reasons on why someone can't be mafia using faulty and terrible logic likely to be mafia defending a scumbuddy Kurumi's role is more powerful for scum than for town, but it is not USELESS for scum. Modconfirming a DT check is not just useless for scum, it is worse than useless. There is literally NO reason to use a modconfirming DT check barring extremely weird situations like Drazerk in HRM (where townies knew Drazerk had the role, because we gave it to him, and were masoned with him. He HAD to use it... and additionally there were 2 scum teams). If you think the role works the way Yamato described, as I do, then it is basically an anonymous dayvig. In that case, Yamato's use of it makes no sense as town. So either scum got, and used a DT check. Or scum announced the anonymous dayvig and used it on a target that was shitting up the thread instead of some powerful town leader. OR, you go with Ockham's Razor and realize that Yamato is town. | ||
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C: there might be some merit to that. I once mentioned offhandedly to Greymist that I found it funny that his Ace Attorney role is always considered confirmed town, and he said he had wanted to make it scum (in PU I think), but there were balance reasons not to, or the roles didn't work out properly, or something. Anyway, you bring up something worth considering. | ||
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He could have just silently and quietly shot any of the heavy hitters and nobody would have known unless he started yelling that he was MZ. | ||
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On March 13 2013 07:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Simple. If as mafia he used it on me and I flipped town and got shot, he'd be instantly castrated for taking out a town heavy hitter and a townie who knows his role will kill a green/blue check is a retard to use it on a high profile target unless the suspicion of him being scum is there. Choosing one of us day 2 or 3 makes sense but within the first like 24ish hours of day 1? No chance in hell. Object is to confirm your alignment, not solidify your trip to the gallows. How would anybody know Yamato did that? The only reason we know Yamato called the hit in is because he told us so. | ||
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On March 13 2013 07:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Again. Issue is if there is anyone in the game that reveals peoples personalities. In a game such as this there could very well be. For all we know he is forced to claim in some way (via pro gf snipe comment or the like) to give a hint as to his role. Hitting a heavy hitter still makes no sense as it outs a scum role day 1. If he were to use it and missfire day 2 or 3 on someone the thread considered mafia then he'd get away scott free, but not day 1. I don't buy that scum is paranoid enough to live in permanent fear of role/name cops. Scum fake claim in closed themed games all the time. Any role/name cop could catch them out, yet I've only seen it happen ONCE (my own check on Toad in CT). | ||
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On March 12 2013 08:16 supersoft wrote: just one little sidenote: I am rereading the thread and I often see people exaggerating and writing really onesided cases. If you don't balance pros and cons, I cannot follow your chain of thought and therefor you don't convince me. Still reading through the thread, but this is one of the towniest posts in it. I had a null-leaning-scum read on him before. Would scum-SS fake this and give good advice like this? | ||
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On March 13 2013 07:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote: hes got some of my town reads some of my mafia reads. Seems decent mixed list tbh So it's a useless throwaway list with reads that are all over the map? Yeah. That's what I got from that too. | ||
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On March 13 2013 07:47 marvellosity wrote: it's not a curveball, it's something that sounds good but will safely be ignored by the whole thread. no idea why you think it's a big deal. It struck me as the kind of post I don't expect scum to make. Yes, it was advice that will be ignored, but it has a townie vibe. I'd expect scum to be more negative about it and just tell everybody they are making terrible cases without the constructive criticism bit. | ||
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On March 13 2013 08:06 iamperfection wrote: why are people not commenting on me nailing the scum team? I like your list. I just have more scumreads. When I get done reading the last 10 pages or so I'll throw mine up there for everybody to admire. | ||
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On March 13 2013 08:53 Vivax wrote: Acrofales you done preparing your list I'm waiting while reading a whole page where iamp is holding hands and talking about tv so I currently don't really believe what I'm seeing. I just got back home. The deadline is in 2 3/4 hours. What's your rush? | ||
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On March 12 2013 12:20 Mocsta wrote: I know that you have been out of town, so i can live with the useless activity for Day 1. But now that you are back.. i am going to be watching you *very* carefully How's that watching going? | ||
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Here dere be scum Cora: Tunnels Yamato all game. However, unlike Duel or NMM 37 where he tunneled incessantly, the read seems forced. On March 10 2013 13:40 cDgCorazon wrote: Don't post stupid shit about grammar. Who is scum Yamato? Your meta tends to be that everyone should have the scum team down 100% five minutes in the game. Have you found the scumteam yet? This seemed like throwaway D1 pressure at the time, but Cora just went on and on about it. The fact that it was a meta read in the first place stuck out, because, as I said earlier: it's from a player who I distinctly recall saying all meta cases are terrible in Duel mafia. He then gets extremely paranoid about dying when Kurumi posts fake shots in the vote thread, and is extremely defensive about his contributions this game, which, at the time were minimal. When he gets pressured himself, he doesn't explain his thoughts, but deflects and avoids answering. First with the deflection from Mocsta where he says other people asked him that before and Mocsta was just sheeping, and then later with Marv: On March 12 2013 08:32 cDgCorazon wrote: Why are you bringing this up almost 48 hours after the fact? If you wanted to call me out for it you should have then, not now. Yamato's normal town play is abrasive but purposeful. His play and reads this game has been all over the place. Many calls of scum, only a small percentage of them have been followed through with actual evidence. Who cares WHEN it is asked? He just seems really keen on dodging questions. Sloosh: discussed to death. He has a single-page filter and is completely useless. Sloosh by all accounts (never played with him) is a good and useful town player. Why is he doing NOTHING except for tunneling Yamato? Lazy scum. That's why. Ver: already said why a bazillion times. Xfire99: played like crap. Then when he realized he might deflect the lynch showed some minimal contribution. Then when the lynch was over he disappeared again. No interest in the game, just in saving his own hide. Null, leaning scum: Vivax: entered the thread in an extremely wishy washy manner. Seemed like he wanted to lynch lurkers, but was afraid of saying so. This seems completely out of wack with his town meta, where he ALWAYS says whatever he wants. He then moved on to wanting to lynch roleplayers in a similarly vague way. However, there's some stuff which makes me less convinced than the other 4. Firstly, he says that he doesn't believe the modconfirmed announcement of Kurumi being town. This is stupid, but doesn't seem like something scum would say: they already knew Kurumi was town and the mod announcement just confirms that, why say something weird about not believing it? His whole tunnel on Marv feels like the spiteful, aggressive town Vivax from LIX and not the more placable scum Vivax. Still, he is shitting up the thread to no end and his reads are unexplained and all over the place (other than Yamato and Marv). Could be scum based on that. Stutters: more useless than in his town games. When pressured puts on a show, but just as Xfire, disappears the minute he is out of the spotlight again. Also: On March 13 2013 04:33 Acrofales wrote: What the hell is this, and why did everybody move away from Stutters? I get that his later posting got a bit better, but here he claims he did this before, and was town. Then when it's pointed out that he never did this before (and he has never rolled scum, keep that in mind) he uses roleplaying Kenpachi as a "new" excuse, which contradicts his old one. Lazy scum is lazy. HiroPro: mostly useless. Flying under the radar. I know town Hiro to have fairly good reads and push them. Here we have drunk phone posts and fluff. Useless Hiro is scum. Mocsta: antagonistic and in-your-face. Normally I'd say those were townie traits, but he was acting in a similar way in NMM 37 as scum, where he kept shitting up the thread by leading Cora on a pointless wild goose chase. If Vivax flips scum, then look no further: Mocsta was around and active in the thread, had all the time in the world to filter Vivax, calls him "worthy of scrutiny", but leaves his vote on Bugs. He never actually scrutinized Vivax and came up with a weak excuse to leave his vote there. Iamperfection: not his aggressive, assertive self. Could be roleplaying, but as Marv said, town Iamperfection is so easy to read, he is almost as good as an IC. Iamp is not playing like that this game. Also voted for Bugs, but has a better reason than Mocsta. Foolishness: discussed to death. Not as bad as Ver, but has been completely useless. risk.nuke: town meta: aggressive tunnely active. Scum meta: aggressive, but loses interest quickly in the game. Guess who has gone awol. Also completely inconsistent reads: On March 12 2013 06:52 Acrofales wrote: Hide behind others? Stop deflecting. I found it very suspect that you called me out and voted for me for saying Ver's entry, and only post so far, was a scum ploy. Yet when BC calls Ver scum for the exact same post you find the read "reasonable but cheap". Basically it feels as if you are defending Ver for no reason, because it was just little ole me, but when BC calls him out you want to crawl back into the shadows and not be noticed. That is scum behaviour. As fora throw-away vote, I just gotdone reading page 31. Would you rather I vote yamato for being a derp, and probably a town derp at that? Because I prefer to read the rest of the thread and making up my own mind rather than mindlessly sheeping someone. EDIT: the internet at this airport is terrible and keeps crashing. I'll keep doing what I can. Null: BC: is not putting effort into the game. Not pushing his reads. Prplhz's case made sense to me. However, his two main targets (other than Yamato) happen to be strong scumreads for me. Oatsmaster: seems to be playing more like his town meta than his scum meta, but has done absolutely nothing of note. Firmly null. austinmcc: flying under the radar, but is making sensible posts. Dandel Ion: poking people for no reason makes me think he's town. However, they are largely potshots with no follow-up. The Dandel I hydra'd with in MTG mini mafia was more active and had better reads than this. However, he hasn't done anything particularly scummy either. supersoft: largely useless, but has some stuff that doesn't seem scum-like. The "trap" he claimed to have layed by agreeing with Iamp's post, but really not agreeing with it at all. Claiming it was a trap instead of explaining away the inconsistent read is not an excuse I expect from scum. Also, constructive criticism. Null, leaning town: SnB: is making sense and isn't lurking. Seems like his town meta. prplhz: seems lighthearted and calm. The whole claim thing makes sense for town, and not for scum. Scum prplhz is so scummy that he gets lynched half the time on D1 as town. This is not that prplhz. Town: Promethelax: town meta, despite the limericks. Yamato: despite what BC says, the most logical explanation for what happened is that Yamato is town and played badly. Yamato being scum requires too many assumptions. Marv: seems to be trying to figure the game out. Could be playing excellent scum, but as in Duel, I have no reason to suspect him now. VE: when VE is making sense and posting useful stuff, VE is town. That is the VE we have this game. Yes, I realize that I have way too many scumspects. This game is impossible to read and clear up townies. I'm glad I even found 4. We kill Ver or Cora tomorrow. | ||
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Did BC bus himself with a NK target? Or how the hell does this work? | ||
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On March 13 2013 12:43 marvellosity wrote: well, if we had medics they failed pretty hard :p for what it's worth, I received opposite alignments back for Foolish and Ver. Do you believe the check? | ||
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On March 13 2013 12:54 cDgCorazon wrote: ##Vote: Yamato Let's kill this mofo. Lets not ##vote cDgCorazon | ||
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On March 13 2013 18:47 Vivax wrote: Hmm. It's strange to ask for dayvigshots who was your target? Why are you suspicious of a confirmed townie? | ||
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On March 13 2013 19:00 DrParnassus wrote: I guess this means foolishness is town. Damn. More like the reverse. He just nuked one of my strongest town reads. How the fuck does that make him town? | ||
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On March 13 2013 19:36 supersoft wrote: balancediscussion in the meantime: These players: X Scummers among them 1. Vivax 23. Promethelax 19. iamperfection 5. HiroPro 10. austinmcc 13. Oatsmaster 14. Stutters695 15. strongandbig 18. Mocsta 21. Acrofales 22. cDgCorazon 9. Intact replaced by Dandel Ion 2. Crossfire99 ___________________________________________ Other players: Y Scummers among them 7. marvellosity 4. risk.nuke 6. prplhz 16. slOosh 20. Ver - opposite aligned - 17. Foolishness - shot - 24. yamato77 X + Y = 5 X = ? Y = ? tell me bros I don't understand the dividing line for "balance" purposes. Is that veterans vs. scrubs? As for a list from scum -> town, I just made a list last night. Nothing has changed. | ||
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On March 13 2013 21:53 marvellosity wrote: given you had Foolish somewhere around null and he just shot one of your "strongest townreads", nothing changes? Foolishness was null, leaning scum yesterday and still is. The nuke is currently meaningless, as there are too many explanations for it. Until Kita or Greymist launch the nuke, I withhold reservation. Trolling about nuking Yamato fits with his playstyle this game, which is STILL better than Ver's. Even without your parity check, it makes sense for there to be a scum between the two giants in the game. If we disregard framers, that means there is 1 scum and 1 town between them. I still think Ver is the more likely scum, unless someone can point me to Foolishness being a massive troll a scum. | ||
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On March 13 2013 22:16 iamperfection wrote: or they both could be scum because they are both acting scummy Of course, but we can't lynch both of them today. Given a choice, I still think Ver more likely. A dodgy first post into complete absense is showing a complete lack of caring about the game. He rolled scum when he wanted to play town and buggered off, just as so many veterans have before him. Foolishness is trolling. He is clearly not taking the game seriously. But is that scum or town for him? I dunno. Give him more time and it might clear up. If the nuke actually fires, then I'll reevaluate, but it seems like a red herring at the moment. For now I still like to ignore the whole mess, because Cora is scum. Lynch him today and leave trolly useless people for tomorrow. | ||
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So if the nuke is real, then Yamato dies at the end of the cycle. I think we should leave Foolishness for tomorrow: I see no reason for scum to nuke a scumbuddy right now. If Yamato flips red, then Foolishness is probably town. Regardless of how unlikely I think that is, it's possible. In any other situation, we can lynch Foolishness tomorrow. Unless you are afraid of him having multiple nukes, I see no harm in delaying. | ||
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Spill the beans. | ||
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On March 13 2013 23:46 Crossfire99 wrote: Hi guys. I sucked this game and I'm sorry. I actually have some free time now so I'll try and redeem myself. I'll begin by doing this. ##NUKE: Foolishness I'll also vote for Vivax cause he's scum. ##Vote: Vivax I am laughing hysterically at the moment. This game. It makes no sense. | ||
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##nuke Vivax | ||
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On March 14 2013 00:12 Dandel Ion wrote: Okay, so good news is, I now determined you can't just type nuke: somescummyshit and get a cute missle launch pic from the mod. The more you know. I hope nobody thought I actually had a nuke, l0l Okay. Sorry DI. I'll read the thread now before posting more. | ||
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Vivax seemed to have prior information about who got them, whereas Xfire claims to not know that. That makes me lean more townie on Xfire, and, well: ##unvote ##vote Vivax | ||
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On March 14 2013 01:13 kitaman27 wrote: The following message has been sent by Plexa: Ядерное оружие не являются подделкой. Nuclear weapons are not fake. Guess we are in for a nuclear winter. | ||
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On March 14 2013 01:19 Crossfire99 wrote: Do you not trust the nukes, Hiro? Especially after that message? Honestly, Hiro has a point. That message actually makes me trust the nukes less. Plexa is probably the guy they came from and I can't see how that guy is town. That means the message comes from scum. | ||
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Vivax is Toad, or has been roleplaying Toad all game as a rather clever disguise. That makes him not-Plexa and not where the missiles originated. ##unvote | ||
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Anyway, I don't know why we are speculating about the nuke being real. If it is, we kill Foolishness. If it isn't, we kill Foolishness tomorrow. In the meantime, we should kill someone else. SS: for a confirmed townie who is hanging around to give us guidance, you are not guiding much. Do you agree with me that Cora is scum? If not, who should we kill today? | ||
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On March 14 2013 03:00 strongandbig wrote: KP reduction - seems like it makes sense to kill a for-sure scum today So we waste a day by all sheeping onto Foolishness with no discussion. Lets have the discussion instead and we might net a second scum. There are 4 scum in addition to Foolishness. Don't be lazy. What do you think of Cora? Do you still think Oats is scum? | ||
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On March 14 2013 03:05 marvellosity wrote: you checked Foolish's meta? the things I posted? still think he's like "nullish"?? Did the post you quoted sound like I still think he's null? You convinced me. You just didn't convince me we should lynch him when there's a nuke flying at his face. | ||
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On March 14 2013 03:07 marvellosity wrote: When there's a potential nuke flying at his face, with a message from a very likely scummer telling us the nukes are real. Hiro was right, handing out 3 day KPs as an invention or whatever sounds ridiculously OP. Yeah, but I think three duds would also be stupid. So one of them is probably real. It's worth waiting and seeing which. | ||
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On March 14 2013 03:41 marvellosity wrote: So to clarify again, all the nukes are real but you can cancel whichever you choose? This. Please state clearly: you can choose which nukes are going to land and kill their target? Can you cancel just one? Or any number of them? If you don't cancel, will they kill their target? | ||
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On March 14 2013 03:48 slOosh wrote: lol. Talk about the people who used the NUKEs and how they responded. I already said multiple times I'll explain, so you don't have to worry about voting stuff, and I don't see how knowing more helps anyone but scum in forming their plan. Also, How does this make sense? If yamato is scum, then why would foolish have nuked him? It would be a monumentously stupid thing to do as scum. So if yamato is scum, foolishness isn't. It really is that simple. | ||
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RAAAAGE. | ||
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Because there's a nuke aimed at his head? | ||
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At first I thought the nuke was fake and Foolish was trolling. Then when the nuke was launched I basically agreed with Supersoft: why just auto-assume Foolish was scum? At the time I wasn't all that convinced yet. | ||
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This needs explaining right now. The more I think about it, the worse this looks. | ||
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##vote Foolishness Sloosh wasted a couple of hours, but comes out looking townier and Xfire also looking townier, so I'll call it a win. | ||
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On March 14 2013 05:03 Foolishness wrote: Oh well I hope the nukes are fake cause my role is such that I can't get lynched. Oops. Drazerk and Toad are already taken. Try again. | ||
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On March 14 2013 05:36 cDgCorazon wrote: Well, following up with my first post that only Vivax answered (well done staying on task guys), here's the direction I want to take after Yamato's (hopeful death): Acro Why Acro? This certainly is not out of the blue for me. I've mentioned Acro a couple of times this game, and his play seems really scummy to me. My first problem is the lack of scum hunting. His vote D1 was for WBG, someone that he gave absolutely no opinion on, just a simple vote basically shouting out that he was sheeping the whole thread: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2013 07:27 Acrofales wrote: Fine. My flight's boarding and browsing your filter it is looking like duel D1. I like that last post showing how differently bugs plays as town from his useless defeatist attitude this game, and my vote on Ver is going nowhere. I'll get back to that tomorrow. When I get home I hope I can make a better reasoned out vote, but for now: BAAAAAAA BAAAAAAAA ##vote wherebugsgo Is this really scumhunting? I don't think so. He's basically taking the thread sentiment and putting his vote behind the wagon that was most likely to win. Hence, we did not lynch scum. That should speak volumes about where his focused efforts are on scum hunting: nowhere. Another example of him sheeping the thread and doing no scumhunting of his own is his suspicion on me. Look for the underlined parts in the spoiler: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2013 22:13 Acrofales wrote: Read back up to page 25, this time taking notes. Will be catching up today and you'll have all my thoughts by the end of the day. For now I can say that Vivax entered the thread in an extremely wishy washy manner. Seemed like he wanted to lynch lurkers, but was afraid of saying so. This seems completely out of wack with his town meta, where he ALWAYS says whatever he wants. Supersoft also tried his hardest to not step on anybody's toes. He "agreed" with Iamp's post, but when questioned about it, disagreed with calling VE scum. Effectively that means he disagreed with Iamp's post. Also, a little bit about the lynch: if Vivax is scum, then there is almost guaranteed to be scum who refused to leave the WBG wagon. If he's town, then it's completely up in the air where scum ended up. Given what I think of Vivax's entry into the thread, I like the Vivax=scum theory. I will pay special attention to this list: Oatsmaster, Mocsta, austinmcc, iamperfection and prplhz. Heading to the office. Will continue reading and analysing there. On March 13 2013 01:48 Acrofales wrote: I just got done reading most of the fall-out from Yamato's shot and I think everybody who calls Yamato scum for it is either terrible or scum. Why the fuck would a scum Yamato use an anonymous vig-shot to shoot a confirmed townie and then own up to it. They could have used that power to take out some superpowered veteran with no fear of a medic, but instead use it to kill someone who was shitting up the thread. Yes, it was a fucking stupid move to shoot a modconfirmed townie. However, that doesn't make it scummy. SnB said this completely correctly. Vivax, Cora, Sloosh, VE all fail to see this, or are scum using it to try to wagon what looks at the time to be an easy mislynch. Out of these, I like Cora the least, but I'll keep reading. + Show Spoiler [brief thoughts on cora] + Cora's early game was to attack Yamato based on meta. This from a player who I distinctly recall saying all meta cases are terrible in Duel mafia. He then gets extremely paranoid about dying when Kurumi posts fake shots in the vote thread, and is extremely defensive about his contributions this game, which, at the time were minimal. Finally, when mocsta points out some stuff he thought was scummy, Cora uses some terrible misdirection to deflect the case, by saying Mocsta was just piggybacking on other people's thoughts. Not everything has to be an original thought, and if other people had good ideas, a townie SHOULD use them. Regardless of whether it was original or not, the deflection seems like a guilty conscience trying to wiggle out from explaining something he had no town explanation for. All of a sudden Acro goes from not having any opinion on me to me being his top scum read? That makes no sense. He's only taking the general thread sentiment (that my agreement with SnB was suspicious) and basically trying to kick me while I'm down. Now I'm suddenly his top scum read going into D2? What happened to everything he said about Vivax? He's not trying to scum hunt, he's just buying into the flavor of the month. I'll tell you one thing Acro, you can't scumhunt and graze in the grass at the same time, because you are obviously a sheep. Besides the blatant sheeping, the rest of his filter is basically him speculating about the setup and how the hosts could've balanced this game. So basically he has no sense of direction, and any direction he does take is two steps directly on the path that every one else has travelled. Once Yamato flips scum, we need to go after this guy next... Lol. D1 I was on vacation in Rio. I got back monday 30 minutes before the deadline. As for that list, that was people who voted for Bugs. I still think there's probable scum in there, but not so sure anymore. If Yamato is town, and more recently Xfire is looking town too, then scum really really didn't care where they put their votes. Then you cherry pick some stuff out of my filter. I've been building up my scumread on you all throughout my read of the thread yesterday. It didn't come suddenly at all. This case is hilariously biased and just confirms my scumread on you. Also, I'm voting Foolishness, because he is not putting any effort into scumhunting. He is flipflopping between Yamato and Marv, and is apparently not getting nuked after all. Marv cited Foolishness' own analysis of his meta, which seems pretty spot on. Lets just kill him. | ||
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I guess that requires Vivax and Foolishness to be scum together. I guess it's possible, but not really sold on the idea, because it's not a giant jump in logic to go from "I was given a nuke" to "Everybody who has a nuke was given it". | ||
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Then again, half the active, townie people have gone buggering off this game. Iamp all game, Prom and Yamato today. | ||
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Is Vivax scum? Or just fucking nuts? Why do Risk and SnB suddenly appear randomly in a list? WHY? I don't disagree with you on risk, he is lurking, which is his scum meta, but wtf. Also, SnB looks quite townie. You had scumreads on other people, which have been dropped and now SnB and risk appear randomly. You forgot all about Ver, all of a sudden, while you called him scum like half an hour ago. You were thinking about nuking Dandel Ion. It makes no sense. Oh, and the whole nuke distraction shit made everybody forget about your horrid breadcrumbs which you didn't follow up on. | ||
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On March 14 2013 08:22 Promethelax wrote: has foolish ever written so much when not painted green by mod's brush? I have never seen him try when he is a bad guy I'm willing to give him one more day as such But I am still unsure his reads are impure he has three on my greens bursting red from the seams I'll be back soon, I'm off to the store. This. That was a ridiculously long post. It doesn't convince me at all that Marv or Yamato are scum, and I was leaning scum on Xfire yesterday, but the whole nuke thing has me wondering. However, the whole story about the trap seems completely deluded, yet sincere. However, he has a town read on my scumreads and a scumread on my town reads. It's just too fucking weird. Either I am completely wrong, Foolishness is completely wrong, or Foolishness is scum. | ||
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On March 14 2013 08:26 Vivax wrote: What are you trying to achieve with this post? Are you quoting something as counter evidence? Do you think I'm nuts/scum whatever for bringing up Nuke(mentioned him earlier btw)? I put nuke into that list cause I've been looking at yamato's filter, and he calls a lot of people lurky shits but nuke never is among them. I'm simply working from the premise that scum doesn't try to bring attention to their own teammates. Acrofales if you're town you're being disruptive, an ass and not helpful, you try to drag me into a conversation that is unproductive and not to dissuade me from the things you disagree with or push the things you agree with. Regardless of my earlier play I'm currently trying to play the game at the best and most diplomatic of my abilities so get your shit together and actually try to move the ship towards a safe haven instead of insulting me constantly. Disagree? Okay. Why have you stopped thinking Dandel Ion is scum? Why have you stopped thinking Ver is scum? Why is SnB scum? The point of that post wasn't to get a discussion going WITH you, but ABOUT you. The way you've been yelling and carrying on in this game made me think it was pointless to try to discuss things with you. But I'll give it a go if you've calmed down. | ||
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On March 14 2013 08:07 Foolishness wrote: Okay this really needs to be my last post for a while cause I have a research paper due tomorrow. I will try to explain everything here. To make it easier for the people who have trouble reading I have decided to keep the analysis in a simple Q&A format. Foolishness, I don't understand, you are batman? That is correct, I am indeed the batman. Your first post of this game was a strange story, and now you have posted another story, that's two days in a row. What gives? As I already stated, my role is such that I can never be lynched. Everyday I must tell a story about my adventures and that pardons me for the lynch cycle. That role seems a bit ridiculous. You can never be lynched?!?! Surely you must be making this up along with your other "shady" posts thus far. This is a themed game, and Greymist is the cohost. As we've seen from all his games, there is no limit to his creativity or imagination when it comes to thinking up absurd roles. I mean we just had 3 nukes go off which are apparently all duds. Is there anything else you want to come clean about since everyone wants to kill you? Yes, last night I shot yamato77, but my bullet turned out to be a dud. According to the notification I received, the role lied to me and I did not actually have a one-time vigi shot. Thus I do not think anyone interfered with my shooting last night (I wasn't roleblocked or anything of the sort). When I was notified that I didn't actually have a vigi-shot, I thought that the nuke was the replacement for that. That is, my role ability is actually "may shoot someone at night with a dud bullet. If this ability is used the player gets a nuke the following day which he may use at anytime." This is also an incredibly elaborate story about his role to just invent as scum. I guess I'll ##unvote again for now. How do you even start to invent a dud bullet and a lynchproof (which I call bullshit on regardless of Foolishness' alignment)? | ||
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On March 14 2013 08:45 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2013 08:33 Acrofales wrote: Okay. Why have you stopped thinking Dandel Ion is scum? Why have you stopped thinking Ver is scum? Why is SnB scum? The point of that post wasn't to get a discussion going WITH you, but ABOUT you. The way you've been yelling and carrying on in this game made me think it was pointless to try to discuss things with you. But I'll give it a go if you've calmed down. Again, you're saying I'm playing this game aggressively and am not calm when it's not true. And by mentioning this you're talking about useless things. Talk about reads not about my emotions. As for Ver, I noticed a few things in early interactions between yamato and you. Yamato defended you for pushing Ver when risk tried to dissuade you from doing so saying that Ver doesn't matter or something along that. So well, I'm kinda perplex on this one but my tentative scumteam was a quick impression I got from reading yamato's filter. Either you and yamato are scum and Ver and risk are town (this would coincide with Foolishness' PoV saying that you should give Ver some time to start playing properly) , or yamato is scum, you town and he soft-defended you against risk pushing Ver (but yamato mentioned Ver as lynch choice before deadline before leaving his vote on SS). So well, that's why I'm going with town Ver. Actually I might also go with town risk despite him looking a lot like fruity mafia. Doesn't really matter though cause what matters is who I want to lynch first, and it's yamato Okay, so tell me about Yamato. I disagree that his early game was scummy. I think his shot was terrible, but can't think of a reason for scum to do it, other than incredibly wifom shit (which I talked about with BC). However, he is dropping off in play. I am okay backing off from Foolishness for now. My strongest scumspect is still Cora, and what I said during the night still stands. Additionally, his case against me was so biased, cherrypicking posts out of my filter to paint me as scum, rather than considering the whole thing... why do you think he's town? | ||
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On March 14 2013 08:59 slOosh wrote: Why the crap are you still talking about Cora? Clearly the issue is between Foolishness and marv. You should be spending time on that. I still think Marv is town, and am uncomfortable voting Foolish as well after that giant post. Why the hell does it have to be between them? I think Cora is scum. And you trying to shut down discussion is pretty fucking suspicious too. PEDIT: is TL really slow and having great packet loss for anybody else as well? | ||
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On March 14 2013 09:07 slOosh wrote: Of course not, who the heck would give their vote away? It was not compulsory either, i.e. someone used it on me. And again, why are you getting distracted about little things? How is that a little thing? It needed answering and you answered. There is clearly a politician fucking around with prplhz and sloosh. I can't really see that power being town or at least this use of it being town, so for what it's worth, Cora is hard after Yamato (despite the unvote), which seems to mean that scum is okay with us killing Yamato. | ||
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On March 14 2013 09:13 supersoft wrote: people on my trustlist earned their spots. Do not doubt them. How did Cora get there? Frankly, just because you're confirmed town, doesn't make you right. | ||
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On March 14 2013 09:42 Vivax wrote: Also put Acro up there cause he's constantly asking the wrong questions while not contributing anything meaningful and I have to assume he's doing it on purpose. So risk.nuke and SnB have magically disappeared back off your list, while Xfire has made it on (and me apparently). I'm going to ignore everything you say until I decide whether you're scum or town (and then just keep on ignoring it, but either push for your lynch or not). | ||
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Foolishness' giant post looks sincere, and honestly, I don't think any scum has the patience or the imagination to come up with an outrageous roleclaim and a farfetched "trap" to explain his behaviour. So for all you MUST LYNCH FOOLISHNESS OR MARV people: no we mustn't. We must lynch scum today and atm I don't think either of them are scum. So Acro, who should we lynch today? I answer you: Cora Cora has not been playing a townie game. I have some experience with Cora's recent town meta, having just played Duel and hosted NMM37, in both of which he was town. Cora's scumspects First off, Yamato. Cora's first post at Yamato is this, half an hour into the game: On March 10 2013 13:40 cDgCorazon wrote: Don't post stupid shit about grammar. Who is scum Yamato? Your meta tends to be that everyone should have the scum team down 100% five minutes in the game. Have you found the scumteam yet? This is a preposterous question that doesn't have a proper answer. No matter how Yamato answers, Cora can follow up with pressure: it is not an answer meant to figure out Yamato's alignment, it is a question meant to nail Yamato to the stake whichever way he answers, which is exactly what happens. From this point onwards, Cora just keeps hammering Yamato with more leading questions for the first 2 pages of his filter. Now getting D1 reads can be tricky and making up a random scumread on someone to spark conversation and gauge their reaction would be fine, but the scumread on Yamato never really evolves and nowhere in his filter do I get the idea that Cora has even considered the possibility that Yamato might be town. Interestingly, when Yamato takes the shot, he actually completely ignores it and goes after Mocsta for a while. The singlemost important moment in Yamato's play this game, and Cora has "no comment" until hours later. He was clearly around at the time: + Show Spoiler [omgus mocsta] + On March 11 2013 10:43 cDgCorazon wrote: Really Mocsta? Are you caught up? You're playing lazy this game =P I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I still think Yamato is mafia and I am going to keep saying so until he does something to convince me otherwise. Yet his first mention of the shot is 3 hours later, after other people have given their opinion: the first important moment in the game, and with someone who Cora thought was scum in any case, and he waits until other people have commented (BC, Marv, Sloosh, VE) to have an opinion about it, or even mention it! + Show Spoiler [yamato case] + On March 11 2013 13:37 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright, here it is: Why Yamato is Scum (Extended Version) Original Case: + Show Spoiler + On March 10 2013 14:02 cDgCorazon wrote: The position I'm talking about is when you basically accused me of having no scum reads 3 hours into Duel Mafia and basically told me that I needed to have 100% scum reads 3 hours into the game or I am scum. I know a general feeling of how you play. You're aggressive as town. You don't give a fuck if you die or not, as long as your top scumread dies with you: The fact that you have decided to back way down from posts like this and play more passive is a bit suspicious. However, I'm going to assume the personality of whoever you are is influencing your play right now. I'll take a look later to see what kind of Yamato (or whoever you are) is going to come into town. 1. His initial reaction to my case. Yamato's first reaction to my case is basically calling it stupid. Why did he call it stupid? A case being stupid just because it is against you is not a legitimate defense. He basically refused to answer my main points: 2. He is playing absolutely nothing like his town meta The usual town Yamato is active, fearless, and does not care about anyone else's opinions. This should be ridiculously obvious from his duel with Hapa from Duel Mafia. As you can see from the quote in my original argument, he did not care if he died, as long as his top scumread went down with him. He was spot on in his duel with Hapa and that should have fueled his confidence even higher from this game (Marv said in Obs QT how Yamato was being a bit cocky at the beginning from getting the scumteam in the game before Duel Mafia). A town Yamato would be riding this wave of confidence. Instead, what have we seen from Yamato so far? A whole different game. His game has been far from aggressive. He's been timid, crumbled under pressure, run away from challenges, and has gone hiding while the town deliberates who to lynch. 3. Lurking and lack of scum hunting Yamato's filter has been a lot of 1-liners and shitting up the thread. He's been attacking players, but not following through on them. His initial attacks on VE were based on one very weak point, yet he continued to call VE scum without expanding on that point. His other scumhunting contributions have been wondering whether Kurumi is the next coming of Chezinu, and that bugs might be scum (without any explanation) His defense of me was basically backing down and trying to avoid confrontation with my argument. His whole defense was that my read was wrong because it was on him. I don't think so. Ever since then, he basically disappeared from the thread, only to reenter to: 4. His kill (?) of Kurumi I honestly don't understand this move. If he knew Kurumi was town and if Yamato was town, Yamato would not have gone on to kill Kurumi. Anyone who would kill a townie cannot possibly be town. Is that bad logic? Another possibility is that he is lying, but what would he gain from that? Could he be trying to cover for someone else? Either way, there is no town motivation in either his check/kill of Kurumi or claim of what happened to Kurumi. These are the reasons I think Yamato is scum and that he needs to be lynched. I, Corazon, the King of Hearts, decree that Yamato must be lynched, or this town shall feel my wrath! Why was he not all over Yamato for shooting a confirmed townie at first? Because he wasn't sure how a townie would react to this unexpected situation, and needed to see some townies react. The case against Mocsta is even worse. It's basically a straight up OMGUS. Just look at Cora's filter. And I've already shown how horrid the cherrypicking in his case against me was. He is not figuring people out and his suspicions aren't real suspicions, but rather just ad hominem attacks of arguments why he is scum. Defensiveness I layed that out in the nightpost, and Marv pointed out some extra points about it here. Basically, Cora is not looking townie and is deflecting any aggression. He doesn't explain himself, or his behaviour. + Show Spoiler [bit from night reads] + On March 13 2013 11:37 Acrofales wrote: Here dere be scum Cora: Tunnels Yamato all game. However, unlike Duel or NMM 37 where he tunneled incessantly, the read seems forced. This seemed like throwaway D1 pressure at the time, but Cora just went on and on about it. The fact that it was a meta read in the first place stuck out, because, as I said earlier: it's from a player who I distinctly recall saying all meta cases are terrible in Duel mafia. He then gets extremely paranoid about dying when Kurumi posts fake shots in the vote thread, and is extremely defensive about his contributions this game, which, at the time were minimal. When he gets pressured himself, he doesn't explain his thoughts, but deflects and avoids answering. First with the deflection from Mocsta where he says other people asked him that before and Mocsta was just sheeping, and then later with Marv: Who cares WHEN it is asked? He just seems really keen on dodging questions, not answering them. + Show Spoiler [Marv's caselet] + On March 14 2013 08:10 marvellosity wrote: Anyway, this isn't a full on case, but more of a caselet on Corazon. I know I said I'd do it tomorrow but I'm impatient as always. I'm just going to point out posts that have a trend and theme in his play. It's not even all the posts, I can do way more, but just some highlights for the dear reader. I'm doing things!. Corazon has a lot of posts like this in his filter. I'm really concerned about my appearance! This is my tunnel and I'm gonna fucking do it at the expense of doing anything else in the thread! Yes, this is still my tunnel guys! Just gonna keep on doing this thang! Martyr myself to not confirm anything! Still tunnelling! Still martyring and talking about confirming mafia in a mythical world! Anyway, those ones are fun. These are the REAL excellent ones. Witness: The trend here is - surely I'm not the ABSOLUTE scummiest? This guy really isn't EVEN SCUMMIER than me? He even said this one himself. There must be SOMEONE scummier than me? Guys? Please??? This is absolutely classic survival instincts, bleeding through loud and clear. He's not arguing that he's townie, he's arguing that there's someone else who's scummier so we should leave him, for now. This is in no way a townie mindset. This is in addition to the fact he's basically completely refused to comment on anything to do with Foolishness, despite being given numerous opportunities to do so. Corazon has absolutely no idea how to deal with the impending lynch of his mafia-buddy. This is pretty apparent. Cora is not playing the game: he is not trying to figure out other players. He is acting like scum and should die like scum. Vote for Cora! ##vote Cora | ||
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I don't have time to really read that game right now, I might tomorrow. In the meantime there are Yamato, Prom, Marv and DI who know that game far better than I do. I trust them to do a better job than I ever could of any meta analysis of your scum play. Prom, Yamato, Marv, DI: what do you think of Cora? I'm off to bed. | ||
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@all 3: give me your thoughts on foolishness, marv, yamato and cora. Ver's absense is going beyond just lurking and into complete inactivity. He's cruising for a modkill. Giving up on even trying with him. If he makes another minimal throwaway effort today, we lynch him tomorrow as the scum he is: If he doesn't then he gets replaced/modkilled. No point worrying about him now. | ||
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Even if politician could be a town role this game, that use of it is worse than anything Yamato did. The only town motivation I can think of for using it, is to use it on a strong scumread. Sloosh has never been a strong scumread of Cora's. KILL Cora | ||
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On March 14 2013 22:50 Oatsmaster wrote: JOAT? Also WHAT IN THE WORLD has Iamp done to make you think he is town? What makes you think Iamp is scum? I have him as a bit of a townread too. He's not as aggressively active as he normally is, but everything he says is making sense and I get the feeling he is trying to make sense of the game. | ||
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On March 14 2013 22:59 Vivax wrote: I mean, it's not hard to look like you're figuring things out when you have 24 pages of filter, that's 24/129 pages. → 18,6 % of the posts in this game are by marv, who "is" 3,3 % of the players in this game. He probably beats Bill Murray by a long shot. Why BM? Have you ever even played with BM? BM posts NOTHING like Marv (and not in quantity either). This is an exceedingly odd comparison. BM starts throwing out association cases and bollocks logic on D1 and never stops until he is inadvertently mislynched or vig shot. If I didn't have you down as Toad, I might think you were trying to roleplay BM this game. Marv is posting nothing like that. He is posting like Marv does in pretty much every game I have played with him or read from him. And yes, that makes him dangerous, because his scumplay is somewhat similar, but I believe I have finally got the difference pegged down, after the MTG2 debacle, and this is his town game. | ||
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On March 14 2013 23:04 iamperfection wrote: he never mentioned the steal correct? i cant see it in his filter. On March 14 2013 15:25 cDgCorazon wrote: Just cause. Lynch me if you think I'm scum. I'm sick of your games and your hard-defending of Yamato. | ||
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On March 14 2013 23:03 austinmcc wrote: Here's what this bit comes down to: Do you believe Foolishness is a batman-posting-restriction/unlynchable/fake-1-shot-vigi? Do you think Foolishness received a PM telling him that he was all of those things? If you do, I think you're ridiculous. If you don't, then Foolishness's big reputation-restoration post isn't fully truthful. If nothing else, this line:Read this bit Supersoft. Read this bit anyone who thinks Foolishness posted a big ol' pile of truthful thoughts. (1) I tried to kill yamato 2x "to get people to see that I'm town" (2) "Since I can't be lynched I thought that this would again put me back on track and get people to listen to me" Read (2) again. Read (2) again, slowly. Again, he's saying he can't be lynched. Yet he's worried about getting town to listen to him. And he's admitting that he hasn't had much time to play, hasn't been able to analyze everything. There are TWO problems there. If he can't be lynched, then his townieness is ALMOST 100% proven when he doesn't get lynched. How the balls do you balance a game with a scum player who cannot be lynched? Role =/= alignment, but some roles are very, very telling because they simply can't be balanced for the other side. See the talk about phoenix wright or whatever from earlier. Unlynchable is NOT a balanced mechanic, and if he's so sure he won't be lynched, then his townieness will be proven out. He's so worried about getting town cred and about being listened to, yet he's conveniently forgotten that he is claiming that he will emerge from a lynch unscathed, immediately FORCING people to take him much more serious and townily. Does not compute. Look at you. You didn't post end-of-night reads, despite thinking you might get shot, because you knew you'd be back today. Foolishness claims to have a PM that says "you can't be lynched, bro," and yet he's not taking that into account in his play. He's lying. He's lying in his come-clean post. That ain't town. This is actually a fucking good point. However, I just assumed the lynch-immune bit was either Foolishness lying, or the host lying to Foolishness: he already claims the host has lied about him being a vig, so lying about being lynch-immune is not a big step. The host lied about Bugs' wincon too, so it's clear we have at least a partial bastard setup here. Also, Drazerk was lynch-immune scum in Holy Roman, but if he got LESS than the majority and more than 0 votes, he got killed. Unfortunately that never happened. Somehow Drazerk survived about 8 lynches without ever getting a vote. But lets assume the lynch-immune is bullshit that a scum Foolishness made it up (just as Toad somewhat made it up in CT). His whole invented role just seems so elaborate. The whole dud vig shot just seems so farfetched, how do you even invent that? Is the host giving out fully fledged fakeclaims (Greymist does actually do that. No clue about Kita)? And the "trap"... the thought process just seems sincere. Foolishness may be fooling me, but I still think he could be town, despite disagreeing completely with his reads. Cora, however, is definitely not town. KILL HIM. | ||
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On March 14 2013 23:11 iamperfection wrote: i think we are missing the point I'm trying to get at Then explain it better. You asked where Cora had said he had stolen sloosh's vote. Well, there. | ||
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Hope you do more than Ver. Have you read your role PM? I know how hard reading this thread is going to be, but if possible, some first impressions, please? | ||
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On March 14 2013 23:32 marvellosity wrote: why have you completely avoided talking about Foolishness? Or about Yamato's shot, until wayyy later when some prominent people had given their opinions of it? | ||
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On March 14 2013 23:46 Vivax wrote: Acro is more interesting but you don't talk about Acrofales at all (except lately you mention him casually as strange) Acrofales de-facto-proof that he's pushing scum agenda: Says Iamp is partially suspicious for voting Bugs. Acrofales voted Bugs with this: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2013 07:27 Acrofales wrote: Fine. My flight's boarding and browsing your filter it is looking like duel D1. I like that last post showing how differently bugs plays as town from his useless defeatist attitude this game, and my vote on Ver is going nowhere. I'll get back to that tomorrow. When I get home I hope I can make a better reasoned out vote, but for now: BAAAAAAA BAAAAAAAA ##vote wherebugsgo So bloody what? I was on the wrong wagon. I am okay with admitting that. Anybody is welcome to look at my filter. My being on the wrong wagon does NOT excuse everybody else who was ALSO on the wrong wagon. It just means that when they flip red, I will have been in rather bad company. I don't need to look into me, I have a role PM which modconfirms me as town to myself. Also, if you see, I don't ever suspect Iamp of being scum. I just note that I am not willing to consider him town at that point, because I am wary of where his vote ended up. We kill Ver or Cora tomorrow he says. Then the D2 action with checks and nukes arises, he says he still thinks Ver is more likely scum: + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2013 22:13 Acrofales wrote: Foolishness was null, leaning scum yesterday and still is. The nuke is currently meaningless, as there are too many explanations for it. Until Kita or Greymist launch the nuke, I withhold reservation. Trolling about nuking Yamato fits with his playstyle this game, which is STILL better than Ver's. Even without your parity check, it makes sense for there to be a scum between the two giants in the game. If we disregard framers, that means there is 1 scum and 1 town between them. I still think Ver is the more likely scum, unless someone can point me to Foolishness being a massive troll a scum. Yeah, but Ver never posted again. People who don't post and don't vote generally get modkilled/replaced. I still think Ver's entrance was terrible and DP starts off as a scumspect, but pushing for a lynch on someone who is cruising for a modkill is beyond retarded. [/quote] He states : If nuke real we kill Foolishness, if not, we kill him tomorrow: + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2013 02:59 Acrofales wrote: /facepalm Anyway, I don't know why we are speculating about the nuke being real. If it is, we kill Foolishness. If it isn't, we kill Foolishness tomorrow. In the meantime, we should kill someone else. SS: for a confirmed townie who is hanging around to give us guidance, you are not guiding much. Do you agree with me that Cora is scum? If not, who should we kill today? Still votes for Foolish when nukes are fake with no reasoning given, showing his previous reasons are complete bogus. On March 14 2013 05:27 Acrofales wrote: So... ok. ##vote Foolishness Sloosh wasted a couple of hours, but comes out looking townier and Xfire also looking townier, so I'll call it a win. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I changed my mind. Supersoft made some decent sense and I listened to him. Unlike some people here, I am capable of listening to reason. Anyway, how does ANY of this make you think I am scum? | ||
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On March 14 2013 23:46 Vivax wrote: Acro is more interesting but you don't talk about Acrofales at all (except lately you mention him casually as strange) Acrofales de-facto-proof that he's pushing scum agenda: Says Iamp is partially suspicious for voting Bugs. Acrofales voted Bugs with this: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2013 07:27 Acrofales wrote: Fine. My flight's boarding and browsing your filter it is looking like duel D1. I like that last post showing how differently bugs plays as town from his useless defeatist attitude this game, and my vote on Ver is going nowhere. I'll get back to that tomorrow. When I get home I hope I can make a better reasoned out vote, but for now: BAAAAAAA BAAAAAAAA ##vote wherebugsgo So bloody what? I was on the wrong wagon. I am okay with admitting that. Anybody is welcome to look at my filter. My being on the wrong wagon does NOT excuse everybody else who was ALSO on the wrong wagon. It just means that when they flip red, I will have been in rather bad company. I don't need to look into me, I have a role PM which modconfirms me as town to myself. Also, if you see, I don't ever suspect Iamp of being scum. I just note that I am not willing to consider him town at that point, because I am wary of where his vote ended up. We kill Ver or Cora tomorrow he says. Then the D2 action with checks and nukes arises, he says he still thinks Ver is more likely scum: + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2013 22:13 Acrofales wrote: Foolishness was null, leaning scum yesterday and still is. The nuke is currently meaningless, as there are too many explanations for it. Until Kita or Greymist launch the nuke, I withhold reservation. Trolling about nuking Yamato fits with his playstyle this game, which is STILL better than Ver's. Even without your parity check, it makes sense for there to be a scum between the two giants in the game. If we disregard framers, that means there is 1 scum and 1 town between them. I still think Ver is the more likely scum, unless someone can point me to Foolishness being a massive troll a scum. Yeah, but Ver never posted again. People who don't post and don't vote generally get modkilled/replaced. I still think Ver's entrance was terrible and DP starts off as a scumspect, but pushing for a lynch on someone who is cruising for a modkill is beyond retarded. He states : If nuke real we kill Foolishness, if not, we kill him tomorrow: + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2013 02:59 Acrofales wrote: /facepalm Anyway, I don't know why we are speculating about the nuke being real. If it is, we kill Foolishness. If it isn't, we kill Foolishness tomorrow. In the meantime, we should kill someone else. SS: for a confirmed townie who is hanging around to give us guidance, you are not guiding much. Do you agree with me that Cora is scum? If not, who should we kill today? Still votes for Foolish when nukes are fake with no reasoning given, showing his previous reasons are complete bogus. Yeah, I changed my mind. Supersoft made some decent sense and I listened to him. Unlike some people here, I am capable of listening to reason. Anyway, how does ANY of this make you think I am scum? | ||
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On March 14 2013 22:53 Oatsmaster wrote: What is there to talk about? I think you bring up good points and I want to lynch Foolishness/sloosh/cora in that order. On March 14 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote: I changed my mind, too lazy to change my vote if in fact its on Foolishness. Foolishness is town. K got past that? That means that Marv is scum, due to the very nice explanation and trap that foolishness did. Now what marv did after foolishness's post is nitpick on one specific part and never mention it again. DrH said in his mafia podcast(go listen its really nice). That as scum, you dont want to address a hugeass case point by point because then more slips of logic will happen and you are now very under pressure. Instead, marv picks a small portion, blasts it, then moves on. Now people dont really remember that and the focus is off marv and onto foolishness who cant defend himself/hammer marv cause he is not here. Then the thread goes to pieces, with marv hastening its destruction. With Foolishness town, this means that yamato is probably scum, as well as crossfire for reasons previously stated. On March 15 2013 01:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Scum Before huge post. Town after rereading huge post and it made a lot of sense Scum after meta stuff and the fact that he didnt mention crossfire's other stuff. Also because if he is town, scum is going all in = not so good move I think. All of these were AFTER the huge post. Explain. | ||
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Secondly, the loooong case post. HiroPro showed that Foolishness does the same as scum, in Bureaucracy, and Marv picked apart the shoddy case on Yamato. I am convinced that we should kill Foolishness. My stronger read is still Cora, but seeing as they are probably both scum, lets lynch Foolishness first. He is more dangerous. Also, he posted that loooong post and then disappeared again: it is starting to feel more like a last-ditch effort (albeit a lot of effort) to appear townie than a sincere attempt to catch scum. Particularly as the two primary, of his three, targets are town reads of mine. ##unvote ##vote Foolishness | ||
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On March 15 2013 02:54 yamato77 wrote: If Foolishness is actually unlynchable then I am even more certain he is mafia. It also makes Marv look 100000000000000000x worse. There is no way mafia is unlynchable unless they have some gaping hole in their armor (like Drazerk in HRM). | ||
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On March 15 2013 02:54 yamato77 wrote: If Foolishness is actually unlynchable then I am even more certain he is mafia. It also makes Marv look 100000000000000000x worse. Also, if Foolishness is scum, how the hell does that make Marv look bad? In what world?! | ||
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Stutters is looking more like his normal meta again. I like his response to my questions. Given that I have no clue how he plays as scum (due to 0 scumgames), he might still be scum, but he is not on my current suspect list. risk.nuke is making sense. He is not as active or pushy as he normally is, but his posts are a breath of fresh air in a normally spammy thread. Also moved down the scumometer. hiropro is not being his usual active self, although his latest posts make sense. Also had the weird phonepost drunk thingy. Was that roleplaying? Slowly moving up on the scumometer due to sheer lack of thread presence, which seems uncharacteristic for him. Ver/DP: I have seen nothing from DP to change my D1 read on Ver, but seeing as we're not lynching him today, he has time. Investigation ongoing. Xfire: not really under the radar. His reaction to the nukes seemed townie, but he has done absolutely NOTHING to contribute except when he's under pressure. Reevaluate on Foolishness flip: if he's scum, Xfire is town regardless of the rest of his game. Dandel: between the claim and the reads being sensible, town. Mocsta: on the fence. He doesn't really seem to be figuring stuff out and posts a lot of roleplaying/setup related stuff. But was one of the first to think Cora is scum. Need flips to figure this out. | ||
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On March 15 2013 05:11 Stutters695 wrote: Arco can you expand on why you think if Foolishness is scum cross must be town? I'm not following that leap. Xfire fired a nuke at Foolish. Xfire didn't know the nuke was fake (unless Xfire, Sloosh and Foolish are all scum together and this was a GIANT TRAP). Therefore, if Foolish is scum, and Xfire is scum, then Xfire fired a nuke at his scumbuddy... out of nowhere and for no apparent reason. Not a likely scenario. | ||
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On March 15 2013 06:08 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 15 2013 05:53 Acrofales wrote: Xfire fired a nuke at Foolish. Xfire didn't know the nuke was fake (unless Xfire, Sloosh and Foolish are all scum together and this was a GIANT TRAP). Therefore, if Foolish is scum, and Xfire is scum, then Xfire fired a nuke at his scumbuddy... out of nowhere and for no apparent reason. Not a likely scenario. You use the same reasoning I apply to argue that Foolishness is town for shooting at yamato and not marv (for the case marv is town and Fool scum). I agree with you on yours, you agree with your own, so you must agree with mine  1. I say nothing about the target. I just conclude that because he fired a nuke at Foolish, IF foolish is Scum, then Xfire isn't. 2. I would say the same about Foolishness' nuke: if Yamato is scum, Foolishness almost certainly isn't. Additionally, the reverse works too: if Foolishness flips scum, then Yamato is almost certainly town (otherwise he would have fired a nuke at his scumbuddy). Don't try and peg me to any other conclusions. Foolishness' nuke says nothing about Marv. The choice for NOT firing at Marv *could* be because they are scumbuddies, or it could be because of about 17billion other reasons. It's about as useful as NK wifom. Also, a Marv and Foolishness scumteam seems unlikely. It can be reevaluated after the flip, because in some extreme cases (LI, never forget) scum pulled a stunt like that... however the Marv-Foolishness spiel does not reach near as epic a shitfest as the Toad-VE bus-counterbus did. Initial conclusion is that if Foolishness is scum, Marv is town. | ||
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On March 15 2013 06:36 cDgCorazon wrote: All I've seen from Acro's filter is: "Cora is scum, kill him. But I don't want to do it so I'll vote Foolish" BAAAAAAAAAAAA Lol. Maybe you should read my filter then. I'd be happy to kill you, btw. But it's not gonna happen. | ||
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On March 15 2013 07:51 Foolishness wrote: Also, I just found this out, but apparently instead of me not getting lynched the person with the second most votes gets lynched instead. Just for the very remote possibility this is true: ##unvote ##vote Cora I want the second highest vote to be my strongest scumread. | ||
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On March 15 2013 08:52 DarthPunk wrote: Err. What the fuck? why were you NOT voting for your strongest town read before? Because he wasn't getting lynched. I think Foolishness is scum too. Foolishness is more dangerous than Cora. You could... read my filter? | ||
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On March 15 2013 09:06 supersoft wrote: Can one of you two: 10. austinmcc 21. Acrofales compare stutters current game to former games. He plays scared; Unnecessary roleclaim; i don't get a scumfeeling tbh. Day 1 I thought he could very well flip scum, mainly based on meta. Stutters has only played town games, and he ALWAYS lurks. However, when he delurks, he usually posts some reads (not a lot, but some). He wasn't doing that. He claimed Kenpachi in rather an obvious manner and then claimed he was playing even lurkier than usual for roleplaying reasons, which was terrible. However, he has since cleared up his play and is looking more like he did in MTG 2. I don't really get scumvibes from his posts. He was sticking his neck out to get Xfire lynched. Not exactly a very dangerous lynch to put your neck on the block for, but if this was his first game, I would not even expect this from him. Obviously the lack of a scum meta makes it hard, but I've been hosting some newbie games and you can generally tell newbie scum from a mile away. Also, his reads just seem right. This looks like he considered Foolishness' post and made up his own mind. Yes, it took him forever to come in and make the post, but it was somewhat against the flow of the game at the time, when I know I at least was considering Foolishness could be town and the post sincere, so this was going (somewhat) against the grain at the time. On March 15 2013 02:07 Stutters695 wrote: I'm awake now and caught up. Foolishness: I'm going to read some of his past games but I'm not sure I buy his trap. It's really his only post of value (aside from his meta analysis on Vivax based off of one of his scum games). He makes decent points but essentially all he said on Yamato was the vig shot was anti-town and so was the disappearing. His crossfire case is a bit better but again his whole case is based around an action and associations. If Yamato or cross flips town then everything in that post is random conjecture without any proof and he'll still have contributed nothing. He might make these types of cases all the time but I need to check it. I'm leaning scum but not my first choice. My gut tells me town on Marv. He saw the same things on Cross that I saw d1 and really seemed to be the only other person really pushing for Cross when it was headed towards WBG around 24h in. Through his filter I don't see nearly as much jumping around as people say (he's jumped between his top targets which i don't remember him doing quite so much but he's got reasoning behind it). Post on the other two coming up. Also, he is bothering enough to answer my questions in full, because he actually followed up on this. Finally: On March 15 2013 07:08 Stutters695 wrote: Obviously I saw the nukes. I was thinking it wouldn't be too far of a stretch that if both were scum they'd obviously both know they both got nukes and assumed they were fake but if one happened to be real he'd get crazy town cred for it. Additionally given foolishness' post about not liking busses when he's scum it seemed like a distinct possibility to me. I'm probably just being paranoid though. This just doesn't sound like scum. Even if he is scum, this kind of conspiracy wifom does not sound like something a first-time scum comes up with. Is it a conclusive town read? No. This is a game with oodles of veterans and he might be getting heavy coaching. He has no scum meta to compare it to, so it is also possible he is just naturally good at scum (some players are... DarthPunk for instance, is fairly new and yet his scumplay has continuously fooled everybody in all his games). However, for now I don't see any reason to worry about him. | ||
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So... Foolishness was telling the truth? | ||
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On March 15 2013 10:21 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright, as my last will, here is 4/5ths of the scum team. They all have a hard-on for both defending each other, attacking me, not scum hunting, and shitting up the thread: Yamato Acro Marv Mocsta Not very hard to tell with my flip Peace out and GG gents. Fixed that list for you | ||
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On March 15 2013 12:25 austinmcc wrote: Yamato the strongest town off that list, I don't think they pull that action. But "everyone scum suspects = town" ain't exactly a good rule to follow. Okay, granted. Will look into the Cora-Mocsta relationship tomorrow. I don't see any reason to suspect Marv and I am town. Yamato-Cora is just absolutely not a scumteam. Anyway, bedtime. GJ everybody! | ||
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On March 15 2013 15:08 slOosh wrote: I'm here - just totally lost on how to proceed because it seems like all my reads are in the wrong places. But yea, here to talk nevertheless. Just need direction that's all. I haven't had a chance to read your 2 mega posts on Foolishness, but his followup actions inspire no confidence, as does his nonchalant explanation of his role. Seems weird that they would choose to reveal the nature of their roles clearly - I haven't checked the votes but cora could have easily left his votes on yamato, and assuming he is town would have gotten him lynched and kept 3KP for scum this night. Uhh ... but yea that's WIFOM, which doesn't hold up to Foolishness' actions themselves indicating he is scum. Also his ability reminded me of this post. <snip> This is actually a really good point. Why on earth would a Foolishness/Cora scumteam play like this? They could have used Foolishness' power so easily to kill off a townie (Cora could have moved his votes to Yamato or even me without anybody thinking twice about it), but because Foolishness exposed the way his power worked, we took precautions and got Cora lynched. This seems like such a stupid move from scum, that I doubt Foolishness is in a scumteam with Cora. risk.nuke brings up 3P. I guess that's a possibility. But what evidence for a 3P do we have? Unlynchable survivor seems ridiculous... and the KP from last night seems to be just scum, so no evidence for an SK (it's possible there was a doublestack or a save). So what wincon does the 3P have? So... Foolishness town? :O Also, regarding medic saves: are there hit notifications this game? | ||
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On March 15 2013 21:22 Dandel Ion wrote: cba to do more and scum can't do shit about it cuz they have to shoot me. olololol Why do you think scum has to shoot you? | ||
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On March 15 2013 21:19 marvellosity wrote: It's this kind of post that incensed me in the Duel Mafia ObsQT. Fuck me, Acro. Why? Where is my reasoning wrong? How the hell does a scumteam throw away a free lynch on a townie? Both Cora and Foolishness were already the top 2 scumspects, so it's not as if someone unsuspected would be claiming scum by doing this. If Foolishness had kept quiet they could probably have gotten a townie lynched, pretty much for free. Why not do that? | ||
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I really have no idea why scum would want to kill you. You're being completely useless. | ||
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On March 15 2013 22:39 Vivax wrote: That is my non-meta explanation. I also don't try consciously to change my meta every game (although many aspects change apparently cause people keep saying they never know if I'm scum or town), so far I never had a lurky town meta, but I had a lurky scum meta, that's a consequence of motivation to play the game. MTG2 you were pretty lurky at the start and I specifically remember you pointing to some other game where you lurked at the start of the game as town, to back up your "I never lurk as scum, but do as town" reason. Stop this line of reasoning right now. Your town and scum meta are very similar, but I feel the difference is in the conviction with which you push your reads. | ||
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On March 15 2013 22:54 Dandel Ion wrote: Who ever said I think? I'll replace prpl (dat's you) with Vivax on my list. And Hiro with Cross. Now it's my actual scum list: Fool sloosh vivax cross Sutters l0l Fine. Your reads are all over the place. We talked quite a lot about stutters in MTG2. Why do you think his play here is so different? Or is he scum by elimination? | ||
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Talking about Marv's meta, not Vivax. Marv is using his OWN meta to make a meta read on Vivax, which just seems completely pointless. Moreso because he is misquoting his own meta. I think Vivax is probably town, he is too fucking insane to be scum (and I caught him when observing his scumgames, because he is far more placating as scum than as town). So yeah, I will shoot down bogus arguments when I see them. | ||
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On March 15 2013 23:49 Vivax wrote: Prom has announced he would RB Foolish, how can we trust the consequences if he shouts it out like that? What do you suggest we do about it? Either scum can adapt to Foolish being RB'd, or they can't. In the former the roleblock has no effect, in the latter it does. That's about as much as we can hope for? Also, Prom's second post about the matter sounded more like a vig shot: he seemed to be talking about permanently stopping the clock. | ||
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On March 16 2013 00:10 marvellosity wrote: Just read the first line. Yeah, but which announcement is true now? | ||
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On March 16 2013 00:12 kitaman27 wrote: GreYMisT's post may be treated as fact. Are you bastard moderators? Can we actually trust things you say? | ||
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On March 16 2013 00:54 slOosh wrote: Bull. I call bull on all of you. The fact that people are using this to push me as red is ridiculous, because I never used cora's alignment as a determination of another players. All the vets of TL Mafia agree that the death framer was too strong, and you guys think that kita and grey would decide to put it back into the game untouched. Wow. No. It's not untouched. We got a 12 hour warning. We just have to decide which flip to believe. Was the death framer active for the first 12 hours, or did it only kick in after 12 hours? Given my read on Cora, I think he was scum and has now been death framed to green. His play was scummy, he flipped red. It all makes sense. Hopefully KP will tell us something, but scum *could* mess around with that. All I can do is go off my reads, which is that Cora was scum and has been death framed with a 12 hour delay. | ||
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On March 16 2013 01:58 Stutters695 wrote: I'd rather let a regular vig do it so it isn't announced and it doesn't get rb'ed. Worst case if foolish lives we just lynch him again and coordinate to put a scummer in second again just in case it's an indefinite thing (I also can't know if the other person already locked in his shot but if he hasn't he can vote differently, we won't shoot and he can add you and we shoot tomorrow. But... I don't get it. If you have to vote, then it's not you shooting? Or do you only get to shoot if your partner agrees? Or can your vote be roleblocked? | ||
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On March 16 2013 05:25 marvellosity wrote: Just take a browse through Crossfire's filter and look at the quality of his posts. Remember in PU he had a mason claim in his back pocket. I was about to say that PU is not good comparison material, because he was confirmed town due to mason, so he could pretty much get away with murder. In MTG2 I pegged him as scum ridiculously easily. So he has either improved his game, or he's town. On D1 he looked like scum, but on D2 he had some insightful stuff, mainly about the nukes. Lets kill the scum we know before worrying about their partners. Associations should help... and the Cora associations are untrustworthy. I tried working from the assumption that Cora is town, but I just tie myself into wifom knots where I have conflicting beliefs about Foolishness and the use of the death miller thing. The whole exercise seems pointless and I end up agreeing that we should just ignore the whole flip and work from our reads without Cora associations, at least for now. Kill Foolishness. Work from there. | ||
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Basically, there is no guarantee that Stutters or his partner are not scum. Yes, I have a bit of a town read on Stutters, but no clue what this sleeper cell business is, and sleeper cell doesn't sound town aligned. Destroy Foolishness. It's better to be safe than sorry. Shoot Foolishness. | ||
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KILL WITH FIRE Foolishness. Not much to say that hasn't already been said. I tried some speculation with a town Cora, but his play is just too wrong to be town. Kill!!! DarthPunk. Ver looked like scum. He then went awol. This bought him a day. He was replaced, but the replacement has done nothing. His single "large" post with content made my scumdar beep crazily: + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 09:30 DarthPunk wrote: Well I am really not into messing with flips as a mechanic but sure. The safest way to play is to assume corazon was town and we mislynched, so that is the assumption I am going to be operating under. However; The thing that I have been thinking about is the way that Corazon reacted to foolishness' power. he didn't ONCE show doubt as to the workings of his unlynchable power when most of the thread were disbelieving of it to some extent. Corazon Immediately gave his will and acted as if he was dead DESPITE having far fewer votes on him than Foolishness. If corazon was town I cannot understand at all his instant belief that he would die for having the second highest vote count or why he wouldn't even try to use his two votes to start a wagon on someone else. If Corazon was scum then he would KNOW if foolishness was lying or not, regardless of foolishness' alignment. If foolishness is scum then he would simply tell corazon his power. If foolishness is town corazon would have know that and know that foolishness would have no reason to lie about his power like that as a townie. So I think corazon was probably scum. His behaviour around foolishness' claim and having the second highest votes doesn't make sense as a townie. I really don't like messing with flips but the behaviour just doesn't make sense if corazon was actually town. This is his ONLY post with any content. It says "Cora was town, because hosts say so", but "Cora was scum, because behaviour". Way to 1. parrot other people's opinion and 2. not actually voice an opinion. It is the wishy wash. It says nothing. Pile this on with Ver's behaviour, and I say we KILL him. The rest is a bit of a mess. I don't think scum is dumb enough to have all of their eggs in one basket, so there is no way Foolishness, Vivax and Sloosh were trying to get Marv and Yamato killed all game together as a scumteam. No way does a scumteam go through the game as a team of buttbuddies. It just doesn't make sense. I still think Vivax is probably town for meta reasons. I trust my meta read in Vivax more than most, because Vivax is far far far more hateful and aggressive as town than he is as scum. He has been insufferable this game (with that cancer-dick post as completely over the line nasty), and it reminds me 100% of LIX. The other scum is hiding in this list: sloosh, risk.nuke, crossfire, HiroPro The townies: Stutters, Oats, prplhz, Vivax, SnB, Dandel Ion, Mocsta, Iamperfection, Yamato, Promethelax, Marvellosity, austinmcc | ||
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On March 16 2013 10:33 DarthPunk wrote: Care to actually say something when you are saying something? WTF is: 'That is not the kind of post to make' If you can convince me that their is ANY value to posting my case before the daypost I will but I don't see any so far so I won't. DP has time to bicker with other people in the thread, effectively ADDING to the amount of useless crap in it. DP does not have time to finish reading the thread and post some actual reads. QED. | ||
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Reevaluating everything. Going to reevaluate Foolishness' reads. Also, if Foolishness is town, Xfire is almost certainly scum. Pretty much his only saving grace was the nuke. But he had the nuke aimed at a townie, so disregard that. | ||
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On March 16 2013 12:29 yamato77 wrote: something about his role seems off I'm going to look at this game again and see what I can gleam Well, I see no reason to single Foolishness out of the daypost. There is nothing to distinguish him from the other flips. So either everybody is scum or nobody. I don't believe Foolishness is a death miller without any notification like we had with Cora. (And for the slow-witted, everybody can't be scum because we would have too many scummers and this would be endgame. Not to mention scum used their KP to self-destruct). Also, assuming Stutters is telling the truth (says nothing about the alignment of him or his sleeper cell, mind you. Presumably neither scum nor a 3rd party cell would mind killing Foolishness), there is still at least 1 KP too many. | ||
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On March 16 2013 12:33 Vivax wrote: Kill marv. Currently just scum in the thread so ignore the case against stutters. He did something stupid but isnt scum unlike these other guys. I probably agree with you on Stutters. Have to reevaluate Marv before doing anything of the kind. Him being alive might be because of DI. | ||
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Vivax, you once again breadcrumbed stuff. Any results? | ||
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On March 16 2013 12:42 DarthPunk wrote: That thing about DI is actually true. Marv being alive isn't doesn't actually look as bad as I thought it does. But you really need to read my case on stutters. It is actually good. You have done something now. You've made a case on lynchbait. I will take you into account when I reevaluate everything, but my scumread on you had nothing to do with Foolishness. It's just that my scumreads were clearly completely wrong. Hell, it's making me think Cora is town and the death miller WAS in fact just the first 12 hours. I am doubting everything right now. Fuck. I'm gonna sleep on things. | ||
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 There were 5!!! NKs. If we accept that the Foolishness kill came from the sleeper cell, that still leaves 4 NKs, all on people who were unsuspected of being scum and thus terrible vigi targets. So either scum has 2 1-shot KP roles that they used last night, or there are still 5 scummers to give them 3 KP. I think one scum vigi seems like a decent assumption to make. Two is too much. If a townie took a shot last night, they should CLAIM right now, otherwise I will assume Cora was town and base my reads on that. The second is that I still think Marv is town, and his reads were terribly wrong. Then again, so were my own. So were Supersoft, Promethelax, StrongandBig and Iamperfection. These are all players whose opinion I respect. Them ALL being wrong about Foolishness says that Marv is not really to blame for having a bad bead on him. Of course, part of the reason for having a scumread on Foolishness was because of the tunnel. However, the tunnel did two things: it made Foolishness look scummy and made Marv look townie. Think about it: if Marv is scum would he really spend his entire game tunneling a town Foolishness? From his past games I get the feeling that scum-Marv is a LOT more careful and uses NKs to take out dangerous townies. So this is uncharacteristic for his scum game. He comes out of the tunnel looking terrible: I think scum-Marv does one thing very well, which is to avoid looking terrible. Just look at Hero mafia. He is very careful about who and how he pushes. So that put me on another new track: who tried to keep a low profile, and maybe even look good with the Foolishness lynch.
Those are the main associations I have for Foolishness. Everybody else acted like I would expect from them. A minor blip on my scumdar was Oats, who was all flipfloppy about Foolishness, but he ALWAYS acts erratic, and his scumtells aren't the fact that his reads ar all over the place, but his timidity. He is not playing timid this game. Stutters: I do not trust your sleeper cell. Was anybody else recruited into a sleeper cell? Other reads: risk.nuke's inactivity is a meta scumtell. His reads have been absent, he has pushed nothing and he is doing nothing this game. DarthPunk is still scum for all the reasons I said before. His Stutters case convinces me not at all and his push against Marv is unconvincing. HiroPro: similar to risk.nuke, except I don't know his meta as well. It is lylo. We absolutely need to pick a scum or we lose the game. I am surest about Xfire at the moment. He promises activity where there isn't any. Apologizes for being useless when he was purposefully roleplaying in order to BE useless and the only thing that made me think he was town has disappeared. ##vote Crossfire99 | ||
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On March 16 2013 23:56 marvellosity wrote: Just to make it clear in 2 bullet points - yesterday DP read the posts on Foolish and found them so convincing that it was so easy to vote for him - today he finds them as enlightening as a quagmire No. I am not very convinced by this. DP got pointed to the most relevant posts, read them and was convinced that Foolishness was scum. He then read the rest of the thread, which has a LOT of shit between you and Vivax concerning Foolishness' alignment. He knows Foolishness is town, and has to use the posts not to determine Foolishness' alignment, but yours. I don't know that I would put it as bluntly, but it took me quite a bit of reading and thinking about the game to realize that you were probably just wrong, not scum for relentlessly pushing Foolishness. However, I don't like his defense: this above was what came to my mind immediately when reading the attack and I dismissed it. But as defense he brings up the check: if his entire reason for thinking Foolishness was scum was the CHECK, why bother mentioning the posts in the first place? He thought the parity check was truthful, and claims his own PM as evidence that this means Foolishness was scum. Why bother mentioning the posts? It seems like a post-hoc scramble to make sense of his actions. So yeah, I think DP is scum. What do you think of Xfire? | ||
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On March 17 2013 01:36 prplhz wrote: yes you have, a roleclaim will make me reconsider. do you have any reason not to roleclaim? Why? What about Marv's roleclaim is going to make you reconsider? Actually there is one thing: Marv claimed he was protecting DI, yet DI ended up dead. Either someone shot Marv despite it being completely obvious DI had some form of protection on him (and scum therefore guessed correctly about exactly how DI's role worked), DI was doublestacked and there were 6!!! shots fired last night, or DI was not protected. Marv, can you explain what you did last night? | ||
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On March 17 2013 01:47 prplhz wrote: why wouldn't i reconsider in face of new information? Because Marv's roleclaim is already 90% in the thread. He's VE the pre-announcing JOAT. If he's mafia do you really think he can't invent some believable actions for his JOAT role so the claimed actions make sense? I really don't see what a roleclaim will help. However, I DO want to hear what happened with Marv's save of DI and why Marv thinks DI died despite his claim. | ||
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On March 17 2013 01:49 marvellosity wrote: yes. I got distracted by Fool's flip. I was roleblocked. What you see in the thread is what you get. There is literally no way for me to change my night action other than posting in the thread. Why claim roleblocked so late :S | ||
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Scum-Marv *could* kill DI just to make it look like this is what happened: it is entirely clear that if DI HADN'T died, then my D3 policy-lynch of Marv would have come roaring into action. Eh. I think I'm being paranoid. Marv isn't playing like scum. He was just as wrong as me and a whole list of confirmed townies about Foolishness. Lets kill Xfire. It's lylo and there are 5 scums left. Plenty of time to lynch Marv if he is left alive. Lets get the low-hanging fruit first. Lynch Xfire now. | ||
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On March 17 2013 02:05 marvellosity wrote: In all seriousness, we kill Crossfire (or DP) today, they flip mafia, it's still lylo tomorrow and i'm left alive. What then? Lets face it. If you're town, you'll be dead tomorrow. If you're not, then we worry about it tomorrow. You realize that the longer you're left alive, the more likely it is that you're scum? Especially if you actually start catching scum rather than tunneling Foolishness. To a lesser extent, the same goes for austin and me. I don't really expect to be alive tomorrow myself. In fact, I am wondering why Iamp was killed over austin or me. Neither of us seemed particularly likely to get protection. Maybe Iamp was onto something? SnB, DI and Promethelax all make sense. But Iamp is a bit odd, imho. I just checked his filter and the last 3 pages have nothing that stands out. Maybe his town read on Marv? I said I would policy-lynch Marv D3. Maybe scum wants Marv lynched today? Or maybe DP is town and my main scumspect at night was DP (after Foolishness). They only need one mislynch, so if DP is town, killing Iamp for not being clearly in the lynch DP camp? I dunno. I hate speculating about NKs. It is almost always pointless and requires all kinds of assumptions about the scum mindset. Anyway, long story short: today we catch scum. Tomorrow we worry again about whether you could be scum if you are alive. Do you expect to be? | ||
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On March 17 2013 12:24 yamato77 wrote: I haven't filtered him yet, to be honest. But he's lurky as fuck and not an influence in the thread, while Marv is. You cut the head off the snake. Lynch the active scum. If this was D2, I would agree. But it's not. We NEED to lynch scum today. Xfire is a FAR safer bet than Marv. In fact, other than the fact that he is still alive and was wrong about Foolishness I don't really see much reason for a scum Marv at all. I tunneled him excessively in MTG2 and the way you are now forming arguments seems similar to the way I was then. I have learned a lesson: you need to consider the bigger picture with Marv... and at the moment he is simply too active and too involved. You say he hasn't pushed cases, but he pushed Foolishness from the second he suspected Foolish was scum. So then you accuse him of tunneling Foolish, but he spent time analysing Cora, and has made some analyses of other people. *Could* Marv be scum? Yes. But he is far from the most obvious scum, and we need to lynch a sure thing today: we lynch Xfire. As for Marv being scum? If I had to pick the scumteam right now, it would be Xfire, DP, risk.nuke and 2 out of Marv, HiroPro, Yamato and Mocsta. Foolishness was completely convinced Yamato was scum. While I am not completely convinced, I am definitely no longer convinced Yamato is town. That puts him back in the grey area. If Marv continues to not-die, then we kill him. But it is ridiculous to lynch Marv now when there are 5 scum alive and Xfire is completely obviously scum. As for anybody still claiming Cora is scum: I don't think so. It just doesn't make sense with the night KP, and 2 scum vigis seems too much. | ||
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Marv: 5 votes Vivax: 3 votes Xfire: 1 vote DP: 1 vote This is ridiculous. Marv is NOT the best lynch today and Vivax is probably town based on him being aggressive and nasty, instead of calm and cooperative. DP and Xfire are scum. I have made the case for Xfire and still stand by it. Just open his filter and look what he has done: First posts are all fluff. The only non-fluff in the first page of his filter is: On March 10 2013 15:12 Crossfire99 wrote: Why are you fit to be tied? I ain't dun notin'. You're darn tootin', though, 'bout Ver. That is a cattywumpus post. I figure he got a 20% chance a playin' gainst his win condition, which sure seems suspect. This is just gratuitious suspicion. Yes, Ver was incredibly suspect for that post, but the REASONS DP gives for it are stupid. He clearly believes Ver: there is a 20% chance Ver is playing against his wincon with this and that is somehow SUSPECT? No. There is nothing suspicious about ACTUALLY not reading your role pm. It is suspicious to CLAIM you haven't read your role pm, because the two reasons are: you haven't actually read your role pm, or you're scum preparing an excuse (cop-out) for whatever behaviour comes later. DP did not think this through. Now townies don't think this through either, but the reasoning is so weak, it just looks like he is buddying up to Yamato (who had his vote on Xfire at the time) without having an original thought about Ver's claim. This, btw is independent of Ver's alignment: Xfire NEVER follows up on this suspicion. Apologizing for doing nothing, then doing more of nothing: On March 11 2013 23:32 Crossfire99 wrote: So I'm like totally sorry for like making my first post of the game now. I was wicked busy. I'll like catch up on the entire thread now, and see like if I can find any scumbags. On March 12 2013 00:14 Crossfire99 wrote: That'd be ill if that's all I did. I posted a few phat things I found, but I'm still looking and will post the gnarly things as I find them. Activity ahead, I promise. On March 12 2013 11:00 Crossfire99 wrote: Sorry I played so terribly. I deserve to be lynched. Watch vivax because he pegged me as town even though i played like crap. Watch out for dandel. he might be scum but i'm not sure cause i've only been scum when i've played with him. Eh, nvm. Activity too hard. Just kill me instead. You found me out. Hilariously, he got the vote deadline wrong and then realizes there's still some time and that somehow his lack of activity got people to switch votes. And then we get: On March 12 2013 11:28 Crossfire99 wrote: I would vote for viv if only cause he pegged me as town when no one should have. This I actually thought was an interesting point at the time. If Vivax were scum and Xfire town, this would work. However, it works EQUALLY well if Xfire is scum. Think about it: Vivax is a townie and for some arcane reason actually have a truthful town read on Xfire at this point. However, if Xfire is scum and knows he's played like shit, it is soo easy to just say: that random townie who has a town-vote on me is acting with prior information, because no way an actual townie could have a town read on me. Beautiful way of setting someone up. Regardless. He escaped the lynch. You'd now expect more contribution from Xfire, right? Wrong. On March 13 2013 23:46 Crossfire99 wrote: Hi guys. I sucked this game and I'm sorry. I actually have some free time now so I'll try and redeem myself. I'll begin by doing this. ##NUKE: Foolishness I'll also vote for Vivax cause he's scum. ##Vote: Vivax At the time, I thought this was a rather townie post: On March 14 2013 00:21 Crossfire99 wrote: Who said anything about me getting a power today? Scumslip. He and foolish both scum. However, Vivax was given a nuke too, so him jumping to the conclusion that the other nukes were gifts too is not really that much of a stretch. Which makes this null: it is just more free suspicion on his chosen scumspect. Also, now that we know Foolishness was town, it's clear that Vivax did not have this information from his scumQT (well, unless sloosh is scum, but then I would think he would have alerted his scumteam to not be stupid about this). The rest of Xfire's filter has chat about the nukes, which is neither here nor there... and a defense of Foolishness' case on him, which is also neither here nor there. He then apologizes again for being absent. I am sorry you're sick, Xfire: I believe you on that, and that that is a factor in your sparse posts. Nevertheless, scum get sick too, and the (very) few content posts Xfire has made are easy reads to fly under the radar. No longer. Xfire is scum. Kill him. | ||
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On March 17 2013 23:38 risk.nuke wrote: I'd definitely be up for lynching DP. This game have been hard to get a read on a lot of people, even townie-reads. Untill now. lylo arrived and you can actually tell who care or don't. Yeah. You look like one of the ones who don't. | ||
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On March 17 2013 23:57 risk.nuke wrote: That you think that just proves how terrible you are at reading people. Okay... how have you shown ANY interest in what happens today at all? Or care about the lynch. You have said you want to kill DP, but have given NO reason whatsoever. Now you barge in and say other people are scummy for not caring about the lynch. You scum, brah. | ||
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On March 18 2013 00:23 prplhz wrote: maybe you're both scum Or maybe you are. Look, I can throw around pointless accusations without backing them up or even having done any effort to see if I actually believe it too! | ||
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On March 18 2013 05:58 austinmcc wrote: Wait...Hiro, you're claiming that Vivax is a politician and has used that power to steal a vote and put it on himself at practically the beginning of a day? I agree. What possible sense does it make to move a vote to himself? Either he was supremely confident that scum wasn't getting lynched and he was just using this to fuck around, or prplhz was right about someone else and Vivax was confident he wasn't getting lynched? Or... the whole claim is bogus. I myself had Vivax down as Bill Murray, because he threw a weird line about Bill Murray's verbosity out there, which makes no sense for someone who has never played with BM. Gonna filter Vivax and Hiro both and give a decision. | ||
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On March 18 2013 06:26 Vivax wrote: Anyway I am indeed Toad and I have the power to change votes, I changed prplhz's vote to me D2 after nuking marv (for no particular reason except that people wanted to lynch me), so I'm likely the only reason the hosts decided to let the game go on, unless there are medics/jailers/town roleblockers/politicians left. Cause as I pointed out, even if we lynch correctly we lose the game without politicians or vigs hitting red. Huh? Point that out again? I checked the worst-case scenario (assuming no more vig hits and Cora being town): Cora town means it's now 9-5. Correct lynch, 9-4 and 2 NKs: 7-4 Tomorrow mylo (today is lylo): correct lynch for 7-3, and 2 NKs: 5-3. After-tomorrow: mylo again. Correct lynch for 5-2 and a single NK: 4-2. Another mylo: 3-1. And... town victory. Assuming we nail the lynch every time. Starting tomorrow we can choose to no-lynch exactly once. Note that if we no-lynch today we're screwed: 9-5. No-lynch and 3 NKs makes it 6-5. Lynch correctly tomorrow and it's 6-4, but after NKs 4-4 and GG. So today we are at lylo (if Cora is town). | ||
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So... if scum has no reason to fakeclaim, then Hiro is a town cop and got a redcheck on Vivax. So... follow the cop, I guess? Hiro: fullclaim right now. ##unvote ##vote Vivax | ||
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On March 18 2013 06:57 Vivax wrote: Marv scum since N1. Acrofales was really scummy since D2 when he started to ask his nitpicky questions. Prplhz suspicious since D1 but got caught too much into the D2 stuff until I found the slip. Hiro flew under the radar. I found him suspicious initially but quickly decided to not pay attention to him and had him as town on autopilot until now. The others I'm not sure on. Is it risk, Crossfire, Oats, Mocsta, DP, yamato? I don't know about these guys cause they all played really badly and it's hard to tell if bad or scum, but out of the gut I would say Oats for how he defended marv so hard at the start of the day. I also mentioned this early in the day (or at the end of the night) So well, among these it will be hard to find the remaining scum, the other ones are rather obvious. Wait... the whole reason you ever suspected me was because I called Yamato town... and now Yamato disappeared off your scumdar? Yeah. Actually you might be scum, but have gotten some of your town meta into your scumplay. | ||
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On March 18 2013 07:55 Vivax wrote: I know I came off aggressive but this game is really tiring. I suggest you start looking from this page towards the D1 lynch assuming crossfire, marv and Oats are scum and tell me what you see: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400204¤tpage=70 This is a mindbogglingly stupid idea. | ||
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But it means that if Marv was alive on D2, he was guaranteed to be alive on D3. So yeah, policy lynch moved up a day due to obvious protective roles being obviously protecting Marv. | ||
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On March 18 2013 08:04 risk.nuke wrote: Vivax is an idiot but he's actually caring. Fine, then lets default back to Xfire. What makes you think Xfire is town? | ||
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Assume there's a roleblocker: was it possible to roleblock Dandel Ion's power on N2? | ||
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Yeah. You see, I don't trust you and am personally more sure on Xfire. I'll vote DP if it is impossible to get Xfire lynched, but I read both their filters a lot this morning and DP has some redeeming qualities, while Xfire doesn't. The first is that he replaced in. That potentially means that Ver was REALLY just goofing off with his post and didn't give a shit about the game, so that should just be disregarded. Ver clearly didn't bother to take this game seriously, so it IS possible he tried to just not read his role PM. Then DP had to replace into the game around page 150. I was basically AFK for D1 and catching up on HALF that was hard, so not having a full understanding of things in the thread I can see how some of the miscommunications happened. DP is scum for not making sense about how he justified calling Foolish scum. That's the main thing I see against him. Xfire is scum for: On March 17 2013 23:25 Acrofales wrote: Good morning. I have not read the last two pages, but I just looked at the voting thread: Marv: 5 votes Vivax: 3 votes Xfire: 1 vote DP: 1 vote This is ridiculous. Marv is NOT the best lynch today and Vivax is probably town based on him being aggressive and nasty, instead of calm and cooperative. DP and Xfire are scum. I have made the case for Xfire and still stand by it. Just open his filter and look what he has done: First posts are all fluff. The only non-fluff in the first page of his filter is: This is just gratuitious suspicion. Yes, Ver was incredibly suspect for that post, but the REASONS Xfire gives for it are stupid. He clearly believes Ver: there is a 20% chance Ver is playing against his wincon with this and that is somehow SUSPECT? No. There is nothing suspicious about ACTUALLY not reading your role pm. It is suspicious to CLAIM you haven't read your role pm, because the two reasons are: you haven't actually read your role pm, or you're scum preparing an excuse (cop-out) for whatever behaviour comes later. Xfire did not think this through. Now townies don't think this through either, but the reasoning is so weak, it just looks like he is buddying up to Yamato (who had his vote on Xfire at the time) without having an original thought about Ver's claim. This, btw is independent of Ver's alignment: Xfire NEVER follows up on this suspicion. Apologizing for doing nothing, then doing more of nothing: Activity ahead, I promise. Eh, nvm. Activity too hard. Just kill me instead. You found me out. Hilariously, he got the vote deadline wrong and then realizes there's still some time and that somehow his lack of activity got people to switch votes. And then we get: This I actually thought was an interesting point at the time. If Vivax were scum and Xfire town, this would work. However, it works EQUALLY well if Xfire is scum. Think about it: Vivax is a townie and for some arcane reason actually have a truthful town read on Xfire at this point. However, if Xfire is scum and knows he's played like shit, it is soo easy to just say: that random townie who has a town-vote on me is acting with prior information, because no way an actual townie could have a town read on me. Beautiful way of setting someone up. Regardless. He escaped the lynch. You'd now expect more contribution from Xfire, right? Wrong. At the time, I thought this was a rather townie post: However, Vivax was given a nuke too, so him jumping to the conclusion that the other nukes were gifts too is not really that much of a stretch. Which makes this null: it is just more free suspicion on his chosen scumspect. Also, now that we know Foolishness was town, it's clear that Vivax did not have this information from his scumQT (well, unless sloosh is scum, but then I would think he would have alerted his scumteam to not be stupid about this). The rest of Xfire's filter has chat about the nukes, which is neither here nor there... and a defense of Foolishness' case on him, which is also neither here nor there. He then apologizes again for being absent. I am sorry you're sick, Xfire: I believe you on that, and that that is a factor in your sparse posts. Nevertheless, scum get sick too, and the (very) few content posts Xfire has made are easy reads to fly under the radar. No longer. Xfire is scum. Kill him. | ||
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On March 18 2013 08:21 Vivax wrote: See how there were only townies (almost) on the crossfire wagon? But then marv started a counter bandwagon on me and jumped off the crossfire one. He's likely the only scum on that bandwagon at the moment, unless Ver is scum, too. But I currently have to assume he isn't. Remember the marv scumread on Crossfire end of N2, in his big read post? And how I called him out for it when Foolish was unlynchable? And how both Foolish and marv agreed that Crossfire was scum? But marv still didn't want to lynch crossfire cause it would have proven Foolish's innocence, and actually I'm quite sure crossfire is scum now. If marv lynched crossfire and he would have flipped town, he would still have had an argument against Foolish, but since crossfire would have flipped red, the Foolish lynch would have been impossible to achieve from then on. So yeah, out of the list of people I were unsure of in my scumread post I'd pick crossfire now as remaining scum. Nuke please lynch marv :| Okay. This post actually makes sense. And I am still unsure which of you and Hiro is the scum. Not nearly as sure as I am of Xfire being scum, anyway. So. We agree that Xfire is scum. Lets lynch him? Then if Marv survives the night, we lynch him tomorrow, when the policy lynch actually makes sense (now watch scum not shoot him because I said that). | ||
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Xfire one of Hiro/Vivax one of DP/risk.nuke two of sloosh, mocsta, yamato, marv And still probably not Marv. So ##unvote ##vote Crossfire88 | ||
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On March 18 2013 08:31 Vivax wrote: Don't talk to me Acro, as scum you're just thin air. Talk to others. Lol. Is there anybody in this game you haven't called scum yet? | ||
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On March 18 2013 08:36 slOosh wrote: Acro, if marv is town, how did your supposed scum team destroy a playerlist stacked with vets by lurking? Only me and Vivax have been active this game, so between the two of us we fooled everyone and put us in LYLO at D3? The marv problem isn't going to go away for the exact reason you stated - he can just WIFOM and say "oh scum wanted to do this", and it will get progressively more difficult to land the correct lynch as days go on, because a single misplaced vote can => last minute voteswing victory. Please reconsider. Or town fooled themselves? I've seen plenty of towns implode. As for the latter argument you make: that goes for anybody, not just Marv. I just don't think Marv is scum, so I think that lynching him now will lose us the game. Lynching him tomorrow makes more sense, because at some point scum have to kill him, because he IS capable of figuring out the game and scum cannot know when it will suddenly click and make it happen. Yes, they can leave him alive for wifom reasons and pray we lynch him, but if we don't, and he figures out the game, they are screwed. And that's why scum will want to shoot him if he's town. So the longer Marv is alive, the more likely it is that he is scum. I thought my tipping point was the D3 policy lynch. I won't make the mistake of mentioning that again. This game, D3 is a bad time to lynch Marv. | ||
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On March 18 2013 10:28 marvellosity wrote: Acrofales, get your ass in here pronto <3 I'm here and will be here til the lynch. Is there an updated vote count? If I see it right, Marv is still the vote leader. That's retarded. If you're town, get your vote off Marv! Stop being fucking stupid. Now. Can we lynch Xfire today? If not, I'll look at Vivax and DP again and see which one I want dead most. It's probably either at this point. | ||
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Of course, if Vivax is scum, then they wouldn't have to do that, but then IF there's a framer, he didn't frame Vivax. | ||
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I am having trouble focusing on individual letters. It's super weird :S | ||
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On March 18 2013 10:58 marvellosity wrote: don't give a shit. you're nto voting for vivax. Yeah. I'm going to the doctor. ##unvote ##vote Vivax | ||
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So I just took a break from the computer and then went to bed. I'll go to an optician, but for the moment it all seems well Anyway, I think this means we lost? Only power roles can stop us from losing? If not, then HiroPro clearly scum. Anybody buying his framer bullshit is stupid. A 1-word description of that role? Makes no sense. Lynch HiroPro. His buddies are DarthPunk and Crossfire99. Final two are somewhere in risk.nuke, sloosh, yamato and marvellosity. I particularly don't like risk.nuke's play today. Yesterday I had him as an either/or with DP, but I reconsider. His push onto DP was not forceful at all... and now, with his 0 thread presence he comes in and yells how stupid town is for lynching Vivax. Where was he when this was all going on? My guess: giggling at town's stupidity in the scumQT. | ||
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On March 19 2013 01:00 HiroPro wrote: right now this is the way i see it. everyone who didnt want to lynch between me or vivax or who still talked about other stuff must be town. Nice try, scum. Anyway, I don't really feel like doing much this night: if we get another lynch tomorrow, we can think things through, but as it is, we lynch the lying DT and then take it from there. | ||
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GG team! | ||
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On March 19 2013 12:46 Dandel Ion wrote: What's the point of making a sleeper cell if you can just add your scumbuddies to it '-.- It's just free KP like that. I'm most surprised they put stutters in at all, just go with 3 of 'em olol. Also all of town played like shit. And I mean it when I say all. A lot of y'all need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize how bad you really are. Trust me, it's refreshing. Nah. Scum votes didn't count. So we put a townie in who seemed easily manipulable. Sorry Stutters. | ||
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On March 19 2013 12:52 gonzaw wrote: To be honest.....it's not farfetched to think Vivax as town MVP this game.... ...in comparison to other townies >_> <_< Meh. Can Vivax be both town MVP AND scum MVP in the same game? | ||
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GreYPerson was signed in when posted 03-15-2013 06:20 PM ET (US) Its possible, Im starting to wonder if I did that myself. Edited 03-15-2013 06:20 PM 138 Kita 03-15-2013 05:57 PM ET (US) I'm starting to think that greymist is messing with me and created a second mafia faction when he sent out role pms. | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:04 gonzaw wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400204¤tpage=8#146 ??? I'm sure Oat's weekend was awesome....but I don't see BC nailing all of you ObsQT post 146... | ||
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I really liked the greymist role. Both parts of it were pretty clever. As for the last few posts in the obsQT saying that it was just a bad town, yes and no. Just as LVI, you cannot just blame it on bad town that it was a scum victory. Our night actions were spot on and we coordinated well enough to get Ver/DP out from the prime scumspect position without anybody else jumping out as obvious scum. Of course it helped that Marv and Foolishness tunneled each other all game, and that Vivax went around completely destroying the town atmosphere. PS. Vivax, if you claim you were not a complete jerk this game, then explain this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18022325 I think our scumQT has numerous occasions where one of us is hoping that you come into the thread and yell and shit all over everybody again. Or that Marv and Foolishness go another round. However, we did our best to egg them all on without being too obvious. Did any of the scum play an outstanding miraculous game? No. But it was a team effort to keep town in complete disarray... and that is, imho, the goal of scumplay: to MAKE town bad. | ||
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I made a few posts in all caps about how people were spamming up the thread, and I called people stupid (but I do that myself too), so my RPing was very lacking this game. I had high hopes, but my being away D1 and being scum besides kinda screwed that up. I was totally going to claim Neutral Balrog and then direct people to stand in Tornados and yell at them and tell them they were going to take damage for screwing up the plan. I was also going to threaten with a giant magic combo deck. None of it happened coz I was scum and wanted to play it safe | ||
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On March 20 2013 04:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I forget which post originally tipped me to you but It had a feeling of "off" Then I watched you and acro move through the thread doing near nothing but fueling the fire that vivax/marv had created. Given that You have been playing for awhile I was like "huh, even if austin was having an off game as town, hes not tunneling people and thus has no reason to only be looking into these obvious townies / ignoring the possibility DP/ver was red off of marvs check" From there it was a every post you made the more sure I was as you kept doing the same thing. However its extremely hard to catch what you were doing given near no townie was looking at any reads aside from marv's basically. Everyone sheeped and no one added real new content at any regular interval or attempted to really stop the spam. Gave mafia the perfect way to blend in without ever really being caught unless someone sat back and took a fresh perspective on the thread. Yeah, that's kinda what I was going for. I thought I had more of a balance of scumhunting going, but really I was happy to poke Vivax and question Marv about why exactly Foolishness was scum for most of the game. I will immediately admit that austin did a better job than I did. But then again, I always get called by some people, so I wasn't too worried. Oh, and @Promethelax: I do respect you, otherwise I wouldn't say that. EDIT: Also, I knew my position on DP in D3 was not gonna hold up under scrutiny for long. I had him as my primary scumspect for almost the whole game, but never actually wanted to lynch him. If DP had ever gotten lynched I may well have gotten caught on that, but we did a good job of stalling the lynch. I can't believe HiroPro's roleclaim actually worked. I was quite angry at him in the QT for screwing with the status quo. | ||
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Anyway, the reason we really wanted you dead was that Ver was scum, Foolishness was getting himself lynched and that left you out of the 3 TL Mafia dinosaurs We feared your reads (rightly so) and didn't think you'd get protection. As for the roleblock, we mainly wanted to prevent NKs getting blocked. We figured none of our kills were primary protection targets (though VE should have been imho). VE had shown himself as a multivoter, so we didn't much fear he had any powers to stop NKs. That left you and supersoft. I can't quite remember why we picked you to block over supersoft, but I think you left some kind of cryptic hint about doing something at night (couldn't find it in a quick glance over your filter) | ||
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