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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On March 14 2013 05:03 Foolishness wrote: Oh well I hope the nukes are fake cause my role is such that I can't get lynched. Oops. Drazerk and Toad are already taken. Try again. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On March 14 2013 05:36 cDgCorazon wrote: Well, following up with my first post that only Vivax answered (well done staying on task guys), here's the direction I want to take after Yamato's (hopeful death): Acro Why Acro? This certainly is not out of the blue for me. I've mentioned Acro a couple of times this game, and his play seems really scummy to me. My first problem is the lack of scum hunting. His vote D1 was for WBG, someone that he gave absolutely no opinion on, just a simple vote basically shouting out that he was sheeping the whole thread: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2013 07:27 Acrofales wrote: Fine. My flight's boarding and browsing your filter it is looking like duel D1. I like that last post showing how differently bugs plays as town from his useless defeatist attitude this game, and my vote on Ver is going nowhere. I'll get back to that tomorrow. When I get home I hope I can make a better reasoned out vote, but for now: BAAAAAAA BAAAAAAAA ##vote wherebugsgo Is this really scumhunting? I don't think so. He's basically taking the thread sentiment and putting his vote behind the wagon that was most likely to win. Hence, we did not lynch scum. That should speak volumes about where his focused efforts are on scum hunting: nowhere. Another example of him sheeping the thread and doing no scumhunting of his own is his suspicion on me. Look for the underlined parts in the spoiler: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2013 22:13 Acrofales wrote: Read back up to page 25, this time taking notes. Will be catching up today and you'll have all my thoughts by the end of the day. For now I can say that Vivax entered the thread in an extremely wishy washy manner. Seemed like he wanted to lynch lurkers, but was afraid of saying so. This seems completely out of wack with his town meta, where he ALWAYS says whatever he wants. Supersoft also tried his hardest to not step on anybody's toes. He "agreed" with Iamp's post, but when questioned about it, disagreed with calling VE scum. Effectively that means he disagreed with Iamp's post. Also, a little bit about the lynch: if Vivax is scum, then there is almost guaranteed to be scum who refused to leave the WBG wagon. If he's town, then it's completely up in the air where scum ended up. Given what I think of Vivax's entry into the thread, I like the Vivax=scum theory. I will pay special attention to this list: Oatsmaster, Mocsta, austinmcc, iamperfection and prplhz. Heading to the office. Will continue reading and analysing there. On March 13 2013 01:48 Acrofales wrote: I just got done reading most of the fall-out from Yamato's shot and I think everybody who calls Yamato scum for it is either terrible or scum. Why the fuck would a scum Yamato use an anonymous vig-shot to shoot a confirmed townie and then own up to it. They could have used that power to take out some superpowered veteran with no fear of a medic, but instead use it to kill someone who was shitting up the thread. Yes, it was a fucking stupid move to shoot a modconfirmed townie. However, that doesn't make it scummy. SnB said this completely correctly. Vivax, Cora, Sloosh, VE all fail to see this, or are scum using it to try to wagon what looks at the time to be an easy mislynch. Out of these, I like Cora the least, but I'll keep reading. + Show Spoiler [brief thoughts on cora] + Cora's early game was to attack Yamato based on meta. This from a player who I distinctly recall saying all meta cases are terrible in Duel mafia. He then gets extremely paranoid about dying when Kurumi posts fake shots in the vote thread, and is extremely defensive about his contributions this game, which, at the time were minimal. Finally, when mocsta points out some stuff he thought was scummy, Cora uses some terrible misdirection to deflect the case, by saying Mocsta was just piggybacking on other people's thoughts. Not everything has to be an original thought, and if other people had good ideas, a townie SHOULD use them. Regardless of whether it was original or not, the deflection seems like a guilty conscience trying to wiggle out from explaining something he had no town explanation for. All of a sudden Acro goes from not having any opinion on me to me being his top scum read? That makes no sense. He's only taking the general thread sentiment (that my agreement with SnB was suspicious) and basically trying to kick me while I'm down. Now I'm suddenly his top scum read going into D2? What happened to everything he said about Vivax? He's not trying to scum hunt, he's just buying into the flavor of the month. I'll tell you one thing Acro, you can't scumhunt and graze in the grass at the same time, because you are obviously a sheep. Besides the blatant sheeping, the rest of his filter is basically him speculating about the setup and how the hosts could've balanced this game. So basically he has no sense of direction, and any direction he does take is two steps directly on the path that every one else has travelled. Once Yamato flips scum, we need to go after this guy next... Lol. D1 I was on vacation in Rio. I got back monday 30 minutes before the deadline. As for that list, that was people who voted for Bugs. I still think there's probable scum in there, but not so sure anymore. If Yamato is town, and more recently Xfire is looking town too, then scum really really didn't care where they put their votes. Then you cherry pick some stuff out of my filter. I've been building up my scumread on you all throughout my read of the thread yesterday. It didn't come suddenly at all. This case is hilariously biased and just confirms my scumread on you. Also, I'm voting Foolishness, because he is not putting any effort into scumhunting. He is flipflopping between Yamato and Marv, and is apparently not getting nuked after all. Marv cited Foolishness' own analysis of his meta, which seems pretty spot on. Lets just kill him. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
I guess that requires Vivax and Foolishness to be scum together. I guess it's possible, but not really sold on the idea, because it's not a giant jump in logic to go from "I was given a nuke" to "Everybody who has a nuke was given it". | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
Then again, half the active, townie people have gone buggering off this game. Iamp all game, Prom and Yamato today. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
Is Vivax scum? Or just fucking nuts? Why do Risk and SnB suddenly appear randomly in a list? WHY? I don't disagree with you on risk, he is lurking, which is his scum meta, but wtf. Also, SnB looks quite townie. You had scumreads on other people, which have been dropped and now SnB and risk appear randomly. You forgot all about Ver, all of a sudden, while you called him scum like half an hour ago. You were thinking about nuking Dandel Ion. It makes no sense. Oh, and the whole nuke distraction shit made everybody forget about your horrid breadcrumbs which you didn't follow up on. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On March 14 2013 08:22 Promethelax wrote: has foolish ever written so much when not painted green by mod's brush? I have never seen him try when he is a bad guy I'm willing to give him one more day as such But I am still unsure his reads are impure he has three on my greens bursting red from the seams I'll be back soon, I'm off to the store. This. That was a ridiculously long post. It doesn't convince me at all that Marv or Yamato are scum, and I was leaning scum on Xfire yesterday, but the whole nuke thing has me wondering. However, the whole story about the trap seems completely deluded, yet sincere. However, he has a town read on my scumreads and a scumread on my town reads. It's just too fucking weird. Either I am completely wrong, Foolishness is completely wrong, or Foolishness is scum. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
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Acrofales
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On March 14 2013 08:26 Vivax wrote: What are you trying to achieve with this post? Are you quoting something as counter evidence? Do you think I'm nuts/scum whatever for bringing up Nuke(mentioned him earlier btw)? I put nuke into that list cause I've been looking at yamato's filter, and he calls a lot of people lurky shits but nuke never is among them. I'm simply working from the premise that scum doesn't try to bring attention to their own teammates. Acrofales if you're town you're being disruptive, an ass and not helpful, you try to drag me into a conversation that is unproductive and not to dissuade me from the things you disagree with or push the things you agree with. Regardless of my earlier play I'm currently trying to play the game at the best and most diplomatic of my abilities so get your shit together and actually try to move the ship towards a safe haven instead of insulting me constantly. Disagree? Okay. Why have you stopped thinking Dandel Ion is scum? Why have you stopped thinking Ver is scum? Why is SnB scum? The point of that post wasn't to get a discussion going WITH you, but ABOUT you. The way you've been yelling and carrying on in this game made me think it was pointless to try to discuss things with you. But I'll give it a go if you've calmed down. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On March 14 2013 08:07 Foolishness wrote: Okay this really needs to be my last post for a while cause I have a research paper due tomorrow. I will try to explain everything here. To make it easier for the people who have trouble reading I have decided to keep the analysis in a simple Q&A format. Foolishness, I don't understand, you are batman? That is correct, I am indeed the batman. Your first post of this game was a strange story, and now you have posted another story, that's two days in a row. What gives? As I already stated, my role is such that I can never be lynched. Everyday I must tell a story about my adventures and that pardons me for the lynch cycle. That role seems a bit ridiculous. You can never be lynched?!?! Surely you must be making this up along with your other "shady" posts thus far. This is a themed game, and Greymist is the cohost. As we've seen from all his games, there is no limit to his creativity or imagination when it comes to thinking up absurd roles. I mean we just had 3 nukes go off which are apparently all duds. Is there anything else you want to come clean about since everyone wants to kill you? Yes, last night I shot yamato77, but my bullet turned out to be a dud. According to the notification I received, the role lied to me and I did not actually have a one-time vigi shot. Thus I do not think anyone interfered with my shooting last night (I wasn't roleblocked or anything of the sort). When I was notified that I didn't actually have a vigi-shot, I thought that the nuke was the replacement for that. That is, my role ability is actually "may shoot someone at night with a dud bullet. If this ability is used the player gets a nuke the following day which he may use at anytime." This is also an incredibly elaborate story about his role to just invent as scum. I guess I'll ##unvote again for now. How do you even start to invent a dud bullet and a lynchproof (which I call bullshit on regardless of Foolishness' alignment)? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On March 14 2013 08:45 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2013 08:33 Acrofales wrote: Okay. Why have you stopped thinking Dandel Ion is scum? Why have you stopped thinking Ver is scum? Why is SnB scum? The point of that post wasn't to get a discussion going WITH you, but ABOUT you. The way you've been yelling and carrying on in this game made me think it was pointless to try to discuss things with you. But I'll give it a go if you've calmed down. Again, you're saying I'm playing this game aggressively and am not calm when it's not true. And by mentioning this you're talking about useless things. Talk about reads not about my emotions. As for Ver, I noticed a few things in early interactions between yamato and you. Yamato defended you for pushing Ver when risk tried to dissuade you from doing so saying that Ver doesn't matter or something along that. So well, I'm kinda perplex on this one but my tentative scumteam was a quick impression I got from reading yamato's filter. Either you and yamato are scum and Ver and risk are town (this would coincide with Foolishness' PoV saying that you should give Ver some time to start playing properly) , or yamato is scum, you town and he soft-defended you against risk pushing Ver (but yamato mentioned Ver as lynch choice before deadline before leaving his vote on SS). So well, that's why I'm going with town Ver. Actually I might also go with town risk despite him looking a lot like fruity mafia. Doesn't really matter though cause what matters is who I want to lynch first, and it's yamato Okay, so tell me about Yamato. I disagree that his early game was scummy. I think his shot was terrible, but can't think of a reason for scum to do it, other than incredibly wifom shit (which I talked about with BC). However, he is dropping off in play. I am okay backing off from Foolishness for now. My strongest scumspect is still Cora, and what I said during the night still stands. Additionally, his case against me was so biased, cherrypicking posts out of my filter to paint me as scum, rather than considering the whole thing... why do you think he's town? | ||
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Acrofales
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Acrofales
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On March 14 2013 08:59 slOosh wrote: Why the crap are you still talking about Cora? Clearly the issue is between Foolishness and marv. You should be spending time on that. I still think Marv is town, and am uncomfortable voting Foolish as well after that giant post. Why the hell does it have to be between them? I think Cora is scum. And you trying to shut down discussion is pretty fucking suspicious too. PEDIT: is TL really slow and having great packet loss for anybody else as well? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On March 14 2013 09:07 slOosh wrote: Of course not, who the heck would give their vote away? It was not compulsory either, i.e. someone used it on me. And again, why are you getting distracted about little things? How is that a little thing? It needed answering and you answered. There is clearly a politician fucking around with prplhz and sloosh. I can't really see that power being town or at least this use of it being town, so for what it's worth, Cora is hard after Yamato (despite the unvote), which seems to mean that scum is okay with us killing Yamato. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On March 14 2013 09:13 supersoft wrote: people on my trustlist earned their spots. Do not doubt them. How did Cora get there? Frankly, just because you're confirmed town, doesn't make you right. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On March 14 2013 09:42 Vivax wrote: Also put Acro up there cause he's constantly asking the wrong questions while not contributing anything meaningful and I have to assume he's doing it on purpose. So risk.nuke and SnB have magically disappeared back off your list, while Xfire has made it on (and me apparently). I'm going to ignore everything you say until I decide whether you're scum or town (and then just keep on ignoring it, but either push for your lynch or not). | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
Foolishness' giant post looks sincere, and honestly, I don't think any scum has the patience or the imagination to come up with an outrageous roleclaim and a farfetched "trap" to explain his behaviour. So for all you MUST LYNCH FOOLISHNESS OR MARV people: no we mustn't. We must lynch scum today and atm I don't think either of them are scum. So Acro, who should we lynch today? I answer you: Cora Cora has not been playing a townie game. I have some experience with Cora's recent town meta, having just played Duel and hosted NMM37, in both of which he was town. Cora's scumspects First off, Yamato. Cora's first post at Yamato is this, half an hour into the game: On March 10 2013 13:40 cDgCorazon wrote: Don't post stupid shit about grammar. Who is scum Yamato? Your meta tends to be that everyone should have the scum team down 100% five minutes in the game. Have you found the scumteam yet? This is a preposterous question that doesn't have a proper answer. No matter how Yamato answers, Cora can follow up with pressure: it is not an answer meant to figure out Yamato's alignment, it is a question meant to nail Yamato to the stake whichever way he answers, which is exactly what happens. From this point onwards, Cora just keeps hammering Yamato with more leading questions for the first 2 pages of his filter. Now getting D1 reads can be tricky and making up a random scumread on someone to spark conversation and gauge their reaction would be fine, but the scumread on Yamato never really evolves and nowhere in his filter do I get the idea that Cora has even considered the possibility that Yamato might be town. Interestingly, when Yamato takes the shot, he actually completely ignores it and goes after Mocsta for a while. The singlemost important moment in Yamato's play this game, and Cora has "no comment" until hours later. He was clearly around at the time: + Show Spoiler [omgus mocsta] + On March 11 2013 10:43 cDgCorazon wrote: Really Mocsta? Are you caught up? You're playing lazy this game =P I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I still think Yamato is mafia and I am going to keep saying so until he does something to convince me otherwise. Yet his first mention of the shot is 3 hours later, after other people have given their opinion: the first important moment in the game, and with someone who Cora thought was scum in any case, and he waits until other people have commented (BC, Marv, Sloosh, VE) to have an opinion about it, or even mention it! + Show Spoiler [yamato case] + On March 11 2013 13:37 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright, here it is: Why Yamato is Scum (Extended Version) Original Case: + Show Spoiler + On March 10 2013 14:02 cDgCorazon wrote: The position I'm talking about is when you basically accused me of having no scum reads 3 hours into Duel Mafia and basically told me that I needed to have 100% scum reads 3 hours into the game or I am scum. I know a general feeling of how you play. You're aggressive as town. You don't give a fuck if you die or not, as long as your top scumread dies with you: The fact that you have decided to back way down from posts like this and play more passive is a bit suspicious. However, I'm going to assume the personality of whoever you are is influencing your play right now. I'll take a look later to see what kind of Yamato (or whoever you are) is going to come into town. 1. His initial reaction to my case. Yamato's first reaction to my case is basically calling it stupid. Why did he call it stupid? A case being stupid just because it is against you is not a legitimate defense. He basically refused to answer my main points: 2. He is playing absolutely nothing like his town meta The usual town Yamato is active, fearless, and does not care about anyone else's opinions. This should be ridiculously obvious from his duel with Hapa from Duel Mafia. As you can see from the quote in my original argument, he did not care if he died, as long as his top scumread went down with him. He was spot on in his duel with Hapa and that should have fueled his confidence even higher from this game (Marv said in Obs QT how Yamato was being a bit cocky at the beginning from getting the scumteam in the game before Duel Mafia). A town Yamato would be riding this wave of confidence. Instead, what have we seen from Yamato so far? A whole different game. His game has been far from aggressive. He's been timid, crumbled under pressure, run away from challenges, and has gone hiding while the town deliberates who to lynch. 3. Lurking and lack of scum hunting Yamato's filter has been a lot of 1-liners and shitting up the thread. He's been attacking players, but not following through on them. His initial attacks on VE were based on one very weak point, yet he continued to call VE scum without expanding on that point. His other scumhunting contributions have been wondering whether Kurumi is the next coming of Chezinu, and that bugs might be scum (without any explanation) His defense of me was basically backing down and trying to avoid confrontation with my argument. His whole defense was that my read was wrong because it was on him. I don't think so. Ever since then, he basically disappeared from the thread, only to reenter to: 4. His kill (?) of Kurumi I honestly don't understand this move. If he knew Kurumi was town and if Yamato was town, Yamato would not have gone on to kill Kurumi. Anyone who would kill a townie cannot possibly be town. Is that bad logic? Another possibility is that he is lying, but what would he gain from that? Could he be trying to cover for someone else? Either way, there is no town motivation in either his check/kill of Kurumi or claim of what happened to Kurumi. These are the reasons I think Yamato is scum and that he needs to be lynched. I, Corazon, the King of Hearts, decree that Yamato must be lynched, or this town shall feel my wrath! Why was he not all over Yamato for shooting a confirmed townie at first? Because he wasn't sure how a townie would react to this unexpected situation, and needed to see some townies react. The case against Mocsta is even worse. It's basically a straight up OMGUS. Just look at Cora's filter. And I've already shown how horrid the cherrypicking in his case against me was. He is not figuring people out and his suspicions aren't real suspicions, but rather just ad hominem attacks of arguments why he is scum. Defensiveness I layed that out in the nightpost, and Marv pointed out some extra points about it here. Basically, Cora is not looking townie and is deflecting any aggression. He doesn't explain himself, or his behaviour. + Show Spoiler [bit from night reads] + On March 13 2013 11:37 Acrofales wrote: Here dere be scum Cora: Tunnels Yamato all game. However, unlike Duel or NMM 37 where he tunneled incessantly, the read seems forced. This seemed like throwaway D1 pressure at the time, but Cora just went on and on about it. The fact that it was a meta read in the first place stuck out, because, as I said earlier: it's from a player who I distinctly recall saying all meta cases are terrible in Duel mafia. He then gets extremely paranoid about dying when Kurumi posts fake shots in the vote thread, and is extremely defensive about his contributions this game, which, at the time were minimal. When he gets pressured himself, he doesn't explain his thoughts, but deflects and avoids answering. First with the deflection from Mocsta where he says other people asked him that before and Mocsta was just sheeping, and then later with Marv: Who cares WHEN it is asked? He just seems really keen on dodging questions, not answering them. + Show Spoiler [Marv's caselet] + On March 14 2013 08:10 marvellosity wrote: Anyway, this isn't a full on case, but more of a caselet on Corazon. I know I said I'd do it tomorrow but I'm impatient as always. I'm just going to point out posts that have a trend and theme in his play. It's not even all the posts, I can do way more, but just some highlights for the dear reader. I'm doing things!. Corazon has a lot of posts like this in his filter. I'm really concerned about my appearance! This is my tunnel and I'm gonna fucking do it at the expense of doing anything else in the thread! Yes, this is still my tunnel guys! Just gonna keep on doing this thang! Martyr myself to not confirm anything! Still tunnelling! Still martyring and talking about confirming mafia in a mythical world! Anyway, those ones are fun. These are the REAL excellent ones. Witness: The trend here is - surely I'm not the ABSOLUTE scummiest? This guy really isn't EVEN SCUMMIER than me? He even said this one himself. There must be SOMEONE scummier than me? Guys? Please??? This is absolutely classic survival instincts, bleeding through loud and clear. He's not arguing that he's townie, he's arguing that there's someone else who's scummier so we should leave him, for now. This is in no way a townie mindset. This is in addition to the fact he's basically completely refused to comment on anything to do with Foolishness, despite being given numerous opportunities to do so. Corazon has absolutely no idea how to deal with the impending lynch of his mafia-buddy. This is pretty apparent. Cora is not playing the game: he is not trying to figure out other players. He is acting like scum and should die like scum. Vote for Cora! ##vote Cora | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
I don't have time to really read that game right now, I might tomorrow. In the meantime there are Yamato, Prom, Marv and DI who know that game far better than I do. I trust them to do a better job than I ever could of any meta analysis of your scum play. Prom, Yamato, Marv, DI: what do you think of Cora? I'm off to bed. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
@all 3: give me your thoughts on foolishness, marv, yamato and cora. Ver's absense is going beyond just lurking and into complete inactivity. He's cruising for a modkill. Giving up on even trying with him. If he makes another minimal throwaway effort today, we lynch him tomorrow as the scum he is: If he doesn't then he gets replaced/modkilled. No point worrying about him now. | ||
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