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On February 26 2013 16:47 WaveofShadow wrote:
Also I realized something else while going through Prom's filter...
MS, Prom himself mentioned that you are Mocsta...Geript only seems to agree with this after it was already mentioned.
Now I'm REALLY not going to be any good at looking into meta aside from what I've already said about Geript, but to me if this is true you've definitely changed your game around quite a bit.
What do you have to say about that and the fact that Geript is buddying you real hard? He also never responded to you saying his post structure was different aside from disagreeing with you 'at points' and not explaining himself.
Maybe I can get some insight from you before he gets back and what he says will corroborate in some way?
prome can say what he wants.
I am who I am.
This game isnt to prove whether or not I am mocsta or <insert whoever else>. We are looking for scum.
As for Geript buddying me; his filter shows one independent question sent my way.
That in conjunction with a lack of kneepad work towards me; I dont see where the buddying claim originates from?
But yes, I agree he never responded to my query; and I am still seeking an answer to that. So yes, he is another fucker I am currently suspicious of.
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On February 26 2013 16:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
Because his RNG case and scumread on me looked scummy. The quotes probe into his intentions but that is where the suspicion began and where I believe Prom realized he fucked up, as he said, forcing him to try and make himself look less scummy by voting VE and calling me 'super townie.'
OK, so you think he preempted the RNG being treated as scummy.
Why do you think the scumread on you was scummy?
And why do you think he would risk more "limelight" by doing a 180 on his read and declaring you super townie? - Does this not directly oppose the intention of "clearing one's name"?
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On February 26 2013 16:59 WaveofShadow wrote:Ok you answered it. I'm not concerned as to whether you are Mocsta or not, but clearly Geript is. Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 12:14 geript wrote:On February 26 2013 11:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
A thought popped into my head regarding this...it may be absolutely retarded but you guys will let me know that after the fact, won't you? Moc that whole post looks fishy to me, this line seems especially out of place from Wave. Do you really like it that much? Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 12:29 geript wrote:
I'll hit that up Moc when I'm not on my phone. It's a psychological thing Geript is revealing about himself here. He recognized someone he appears to 'know' (based on last game once again) and already assumes you and him share a rapport by referring to you as 'Moc,' and the fact that he assumed you are Mocsta in the first place, not even referring to a realization of the fact. He already assumes you two have a friendly connection, hence, 'buddying.'
I didnt read it that way. When was referring to .?Mocsta? I enquired whether he was talking to me.
It is common to address smurfs by who you think they are (Look at FiveTouch in Mafia LIX)
Now question for you:
Why would it matter Geript is "buddying" up to me? Why not the plethora of other players?
I checked the playing list for NMM37, you and Geript were in that.. why not buddy you to develop this rapport?
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WoS: I am asking for clarification because:
I am trying to get a better appreciation of how you think; and instead of assume why you are making decisions I would rather you tell.
The quotes are nice; but dot points would have sufficed 
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On February 26 2013 17:04 MilkSuckler wrote:
Now question for you:
Why would it matter Geript is "buddying" up to me? Why not the plethora of other players?
I checked the playing list for NMM37, you and Geript were in that.. why not buddy you to develop this rapport? On February 26 2013 17:13 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm asking you why you think it would matter because as I said before, I'm curious to hear his own intentions on the matter. And as for buddying again, obvious....because he made it very clear he thinks I'm 'scum.'
Yes you asked the question, and I responded i don't believe he is buddying.
as for moc being shorthanded to establish rapport; did you consider he could have posted on the phone and it was simply easier?
I think you are grasping at the equivalent of a scum slip; and that certainly can not form the foundation for scrutiny.
If you think he is buddying me; because he thinks you are scum; and I expressed doubt regarding you at the time... then what does that make of Dr.H/me/VE/Wade Fell who have made cases on prome?
======
So I will re-ask:
(1)why are you so fixated on this buddying claim as a meaningful contribution?
(2)And why ignore promes buddying of vivax?
I know you did a short dive of Vivax, but I did not see you direct any counter pressure his way?
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On February 26 2013 17:30 Aquanim wrote:
Yo MilkSuckler, who do you want for mayor at the moment and why?
My first choice is Dr.H but he doesnt want it.
If no one else steps up over the next 30hrs then:
On February 26 2013 15:47 MilkSuckler wrote:
I am comfortable enough with VE play so far to vote him for a role.
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What about you aqua with mayor?
Also, now that there has been an addition 10-20 pages; is your top read still OO?
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On February 26 2013 17:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
Milky
Watch me all you want VE. Just make sure you don't forget to scum hunt as well
Night
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On February 26 2013 19:43 geript wrote:Sorry I got caught up at work; major AC leak and a busted urinal within 30 minutes of each other and when I don't usually clean. Had to call people in, explain why I was there, what was going on and why I wasn't responsible for it. First off, there are three distinct tones in WoS key post and I'm going to separate them out. Show nested quote +A thought popped into my head regarding this...it may be absolutely retarded but you guys will let me know that after the fact, won't you? All this says is that whatever you are about to propose is absolutely retarded. All it says is, "ignore this post." This tone is returned to at the end. Show nested quote +Since I am new to this whole durned mafia thing, I am likely to be either ignored or an easy mafia target, keeping the role out of scum's reach. The second tone is the analysis tone: Show nested quote +Since the pardoner is inherently more dangerous as a scumrole and the plan to 'kill two birds with one stone' in all likelihood won't (or can't at this point) gain the traction necessary to be carried out, why not give up the role to someone who is likely to be targeted early anyway, or someone who if you are overly suspicious of, you can lynch yourselves anyway?
Case and point: a newbie. Basically this says, "trust a newbie to be pardoner." The problem is that his argument falls apart when you really analyze it. You don't want pardoner in the hands of a newbie because it's a free pass for when they get caught for them unless they're lynched D1. I agree with previous analysis, best to put pardoner on the mayor's lynch target. Next the general plea: Show nested quote +I graciously offer up myself to be the (possible) sacrificial lamb to do with as you will. If you so choose to lynch me for fear that I am scum, then I go down happily, hopefully bringing as much information to the table as possible before I crash and burn in an epic fireball. If you choose to keep me around, then I will serve the town gladly and I will offer up my pardon to save a deserving person. Since I am new to this whole durned mafia thing, I am likely to be either ignored or an easy mafia target, keeping the role out of scum's reach. This section is especially out of tone for him. I feel like I'm watching C3PO talk to Jabba here. This paragraph especially feels forced; the diction is all wrong for him. His posts are little more than mimicry than anything else in general but this paragraph is nothing of the sort. Next, I actually have to agree with what Prome said. The difference between Vivax response and WoS response is that Vivax actually attacks the argument (If you do A+B then no way you get to C). WoS response was essentially, "You got NK last game." WoS is playing excited this game. Even when he's grabbed a touch of heat, he's not been the slightest concerned about it and continues to "counterpressure" with bleh. I'm going to reread the thread a few times before I head to bed and sleep on it but for right now Vivax and WoS are on the top of my list but I'd need a flip to make a strong case.
@Geript
I have some serious problems with this post.
Aquanim and you had some foreplay, but my issue was not directly tackled.
You do your dance and explain your three tones. Blah blah.
Then the colossal disappointment of a conclusion.
I'm going to reread the thread a few times before I head to bed and sleep on it but for right now Vivax and WoS are on the top of my list but I'd need a flip to make a strong case.
Wtf is this meant to mean.... You have two top scum reads.. but until you see a flip you can not make a strong case.
Explain in gratuitous detail NOW!
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On February 26 2013 18:25 JungleJorge wrote:
I believe promethelax is innocent and I may expand on that if necessary, but it should be painfully obvious to anyone reading this thread how much traction this wagon got based on very poor reasoning by most of you. Much of the "scummy" behavior you have been pointing out is exactly the opposite of what scum normally tries to accomplish when they post. I suggest you revisit prom's filter and think about why he would post some of the stuff he has posted if he was indeed scum. I plan on being more specific later, but I'll give you guys some time to figure it out by yourselves.
JJ, it is not painfully obvious.
Please share the information you have to enlighten us all.
Why is prome innocent?
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On February 26 2013 22:33 The Milkman wrote:
My initial read on Promethelax was such a disaster, I support his lynch wholeheartedly.
Can I have a read on Wade Fell /BH pl0x?
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Welcome Glurio.
You can assume I am whoever you want me to be.
(1) So what goods did "Waffels" bring to the table with prome, that wasnt on the table before?
(2) On February 26 2013 23:03 glurio wrote:
geripts ...What do you make of OO?
What is your read on OO?
(3) Now that you have caught up.. who is your top scum read pl0x
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On February 26 2013 23:09 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 22:33 The Milkman wrote:
My initial read on Promethelax was such a disaster, I support his lynch wholeheartedly. His play does not sum up as a town one in my book. He should push analysis, help with shooting down bad plans, actually scum hunt and so on. What is his reaction to pressure? No reaction. He just seems to start posting one liners and filler. I understand Dr's reluctance to be elected mayor, he just wants to play for a little while for once. Viscera is playing cool too. Milksuckler got a little townier than at the start, he seemed cold. Now he seems to be in the mafia trance! Vivax is in my opinion playing terribly, trying to do meaningless stuff like smurf identities, spamming and overall fluff. Toad strikes me as suspicious because of his position and calling for day vig. He does not seem right based on meta - he is not the guy to be "somewhere" but the guy to be at the top of town's structure. Leading, working hard and scumhunting. wat? Are you kidding me? I did more than anyone in this game so far. The game started 01 am my time. That's really late and still everyone's on prom because of the 3 posts I DID about him and laya / VE and later on everyone else agreeing with what I said / repeating what I said about prom in everyone's one words. What do you expect me to do on top of what I already did this game? Especially considering that it was 1am at the time the game started and I went to bed around 3am (stayed awake longer because I felt I could get something going on prom and I was right lol). I'd punch you in the face for that statement of your. And I'm not talking about mafia "punch in you the face" à la lynching you. Take a look what I posted and consider that the time you are telling me I should have been more active, being "on top of town" were between 3am and 12am...
This is a bit of an over-reaction? no...
Why are you so concerned with a some of the limelight on you; regardless of whether true or false accusations?
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On February 26 2013 23:21 The Macho Man wrote:
Prom is definitely not confirmed scum as the whole thread seems to think and the most concerning thing that he actually has done is this post here in saying that he isn't going to be active after all the pressure. This is the most tell sign that he is scum
If he does not care about town and doesn't post then he should die.
In fairness, Prome said pre-game he would be unavailable during this period of the cycle. So I dont treat the absence as scummy.
You are the second person (after JungleJorge) to purport Prome innocent, with not backing.
Considering he is under heavy scrutiny, I think it is the time to provide the evidence to support his innocence, instead of a soft-claim.
I expect that you have voiced your opinion on this matter, you will have no qualms following through with the reasoning.
Thank you.
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On February 26 2013 23:22 The Milkman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 22:53 MilkSuckler wrote:
Can I have a read on Wade Fell /BH pl0x? He shoots down Prome's rng plan. Okay, that's fine. RNG plans always get shot down. Shoots down randombum's idea too (yeah it was crap, sorry man) Supports DrH/VE as mayors, does not agree with "read only vets" agenda. When Aqua tries to understand his point, he spends the time to explain to him the best he can. He's putting effort and thought into his play. He cares for discourse. He is one of the people responsible for the good part of the Day so far. Real good work there.
OK, I look at those points and think where are the specific town tells?
Though Dr.H *will* disagree, a large component of Day1 is spent establishing innocence. All those stances listed above I believe are easy to follow through as either scum or town.
Out of those points raised, the closest to being indicative of town (in my opinion) is the discourse with Aquanim.
Also, if you notice, when Aquanim first raised a query on the case; his response was: here is the link to the case. It wasn't until Aquanim persisted that a more detailed response was granted.
===
So far I still think Wade Fell is suspicious; but, if all the vets think Wade is town, perhaps I am missing an important part of the equation. What do you make of what I wrote above? Do you see validity of paranoia?
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On February 26 2013 23:28 The Macho Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 23:27 The Milkman wrote:On February 26 2013 23:25 The Macho Man wrote:On February 26 2013 23:24 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 26 2013 23:21 The Macho Man wrote:
Prom is definitely not confirmed scum as the whole thread seems to think and the most concerning thing that he actually has done is this post here in saying that he isn't going to be active after all the pressure. This is the most tell sign that he is scum
If he does not care about town and doesn't post then he should die.
In fairness, Prome said pre-game he would be unavailable during this period of the cycle. So I dont treat the absence as scummy. You are the second person (after JungleJorge) to purport Prome innocent, with not backing. Considering he is under heavy scrutiny, I think it is the time to provide the evidence to support his innocence, instead of a soft-claim. I expect that you have voiced your opinion on this matter, you will have no qualms following through with the reasoning. Thank you. he has been one of the more active guys seems interested in the game and looks like he cared about the lynch. Those are in fact townie traits. Those are in fact traits which are very weak to call someone town. Does that mean that not posting means someone is scum? We all know how lurkers turn out. scum don't like the spotlight prom has been in the spotlight. That's mafia 101 come on.
So let me haphazard a guess.
That you are in the spotlight defending prome; suggests -with your logic - that you are not scum, due to mafia 101? Correct?
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On February 26 2013 23:28 The Macho Man wrote:
scum don't like the spotlight prom has been in the spotlight. That's mafia 101 come on.
Macho Man
(1) Do you think Vivax has been in the spotlight? He has seemed to draw attention from multiple stakeholders.
is lynch interest the only separator between Vivax/prome for you?
(2) I am confused when you say prome has been interested in the lynch? Can you please expand, because this conflicts with my opinions (already expressed here
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399294¤tpage=37#726)
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On February 26 2013 23:38 glurio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 23:10 MilkSuckler wrote:Welcome Glurio. You can assume I am whoever you want me to be. (1) So what goods did "Waffels" bring to the table with prome, that wasnt on the table before? (2) On February 26 2013 23:03 glurio wrote:
geripts ...What do you make of OO? What is your read on OO? (3) Now that you have caught up.. who is your top scum read pl0x 1) He wanted to kill you. He put down the stupid RNG idea, also randombuns obviously flawed plan to elect the scummiest player. Some of his points on prome has been made before but DrH doesn't want to be mayor. Also he seems to be a reasonable player, with all that let's only hear vets opinions shenanigans. Thats why i vote for him. 2) Wanna hear geripts opinion first. 3) Prome
Thanks for reciprocating Glurio, appreciated.
With (1) I think you have misinterpreted the question.
I am asking you what logic and reasoning did Waffels add to the prome case to sway you; as obviously something was lacking prior if you had to point out him as your catalyst.
(2) Why do you need Geript to comment on OO before you share your thoughts? Whats the issue at hand?
In regards to your interpretation of q(1) above.
You wrote "he wanted to kill you". Why is that a sound reason to vote someone? Do you think I am scummy, if so, why is prome scummier than I?
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On February 26 2013 23:41 The Milkman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 23:28 The Macho Man wrote:On February 26 2013 23:27 The Milkman wrote:On February 26 2013 23:25 The Macho Man wrote:On February 26 2013 23:24 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 26 2013 23:21 The Macho Man wrote:
Prom is definitely not confirmed scum as the whole thread seems to think and the most concerning thing that he actually has done is this post here in saying that he isn't going to be active after all the pressure. This is the most tell sign that he is scum
If he does not care about town and doesn't post then he should die.
In fairness, Prome said pre-game he would be unavailable during this period of the cycle. So I dont treat the absence as scummy. You are the second person (after JungleJorge) to purport Prome innocent, with not backing. Considering he is under heavy scrutiny, I think it is the time to provide the evidence to support his innocence, instead of a soft-claim. I expect that you have voiced your opinion on this matter, you will have no qualms following through with the reasoning. Thank you. he has been one of the more active guys seems interested in the game and looks like he cared about the lynch. Those are in fact townie traits. Those are in fact traits which are very weak to call someone town. Does that mean that not posting means someone is scum? We all know how lurkers turn out. scum don't like the spotlight prom has been in the spotlight. That's mafia 101 come on. That's Mafia Survival Guide for Dummies. I assume you know the distinction. Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 23:31 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 26 2013 23:22 The Milkman wrote:On February 26 2013 22:53 MilkSuckler wrote:
Can I have a read on Wade Fell /BH pl0x? He shoots down Prome's rng plan. Okay, that's fine. RNG plans always get shot down. Shoots down randombum's idea too (yeah it was crap, sorry man) Supports DrH/VE as mayors, does not agree with "read only vets" agenda. When Aqua tries to understand his point, he spends the time to explain to him the best he can. He's putting effort and thought into his play. He cares for discourse. He is one of the people responsible for the good part of the Day so far. Real good work there. OK, I look at those points and think where are the specific town tells? Though Dr.H *will* disagree, a large component of Day1 is spent establishing innocence. All those stances listed above I believe are easy to follow through as either scum or town. Out of those points raised, the closest to being indicative of town (in my opinion) is the discourse with Aquanim. Also, if you notice, when Aquanim first raised a query on the case; his response was: here is the link to the case. It wasn't until Aquanim persisted that a more detailed response was granted. === So far I still think Wade Fell is suspicious; but, if all the vets think Wade is town, perhaps I am missing an important part of the equation. What do you make of what I wrote above? Do you see validity of paranoia? Hey, first off all, don't care about what vets say and what they don't say. We need people going in different direction, poking and random things ALL at once. Of course, we could all just nod when someone brings something to the table but that would get us nowhere. You know, the biggest danger for democracy is when everyone thinks the same. There is no innovation. There is no discourse. There is nothing to stop the present train of thought and as we know humans are not exactly the most clever species in the Universe. But I digress. I think putting effort into shooting down the plans is a decent town tell. When I roll Mafia I usually sit back and let chaos flow through people with all the different plans over the place. Since no one would tell them they suck or anything else, they would just repeat questions to others like they are in some crazed trance "Hey what do you think about my plan? Good right? Hey guys my plan is great. PAY ATTENTION TO MY PLAN PLAN PLAN PLAN" And things go into the bits with everyone trying to shove their plan into other people's faces. The support for DrH/VE is a good thing too - we need their play as role model for people who get a little lost.
Im a sceptic of those antics being town, because as mafia; I have no qualms trying to push that agenda D1. To me they are easy to take stances, as long as you are willing to commit to being active. An aggressive player like BH to me suits that modus operandi.
Having said that, I think I figured out the missing piece of the puzzle.
With no bodyguards, mayor is not a role that I think scum is gunning for THAT majorly. Its nice to secure a mislynch D1; but ultimately, the risk of thread presence probably does not outweight the reward.
So if BH is pushing that hard for such a low gain, I can see that as town inspired play as opposed to scum.
I still prefer VE with my vote though.
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On February 27 2013 00:04 The Macho Man wrote:
vivax has not been in the spotlight at all he just seems like he wants to appear active with pointless posts that do nothing. He does not look like he is trying to figure out peoples alignment at all. Ie throws shit at me but does nothing with. That is extremely mafia motivated mindset because he doesn't want the attention of trying to push for my lynch but still wants to throw needless suspicion. I am having trouble understanding how you can claim Vivax is "extremely mafia motivated" when it is known he is typically a "trolly" type player.
If he is such a scum read for you; why not lead pressure on Vivax? I noticed you called him out, and then proceed to declare he should die. Where is the intention to understand whether your read was made abruptly?
On February 27 2013 00:04 The Macho Man wrote:
his thoughts on ve and grush come to mind figuring out that some people might be town is useful in a mayor vote Im not seeing the connection to why commenting about starsenses (i.e. Grush) is useful in a mayor vote.
Are you looking for someone who declares openly their town reads; or are you looking for someone actively engaging others in the scum hunt?
Please share your logic process.
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EPT
