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On March 07 2013 11:47 TestSubject893 wrote:
Well see that's the thing, I don't know what I think of you yet, I'm still working that out right now. I had you squarely as town before, but you changed that for me. I think we've about hit the end of where this discussion is productive though.
I Still personally dont see how that one action changes everything.. if anything.. my thought process around the whole event has been transparent, which is not conducive to scum play.
If you think I was purposely tricking people, fine.. but think about it. its 2 scum, 12 town.. I still think its too early for scum to be sticking their necks out like what I did.
But yes.. I agree with you, there is no point continuing this discussion.
Im supporting my stance from yesterday.. Lynch Glurio
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On March 07 2013 12:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Do you think wos is scum milksuckler?
The banter I had with him yesterday to me is non-alignment indicative; as scum, I am not scared of confrontation, and he seems to exhibit the same confidence.
Having said that: There is a lot I dont like in WoS filter, but i do not think my personal dislike of filter makes him scum.
In fact his last post on Wade Fell spoke volumes to me.
Even though it is a contribution anyone can make, I think he put more detail and time into it than a scum player would invest.
I will say outright, there is a higher chance of you flipping scum than WoS in my mind. Day1 i had you as probably town, and each day that has slowly dwindled, that for me personally, I list you as null.
This was further exacerbated by your claims to my false representation of events.
=================
I dont know what to make of randombum; if you think a guy is town, the correct course of action is to identify someone scummier.
But, I would have liked if he extrapolated somewhat on his claim that glurio is town (considering the heat he is under)
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On March 07 2013 12:56 Aquanim wrote:
@MilkSuckler I'd like you to make a single, unified case on Glurio pulling together everything you think makes him scum.
In particular I want to see what you think makes him scum as opposed to bored town.
I am not trying to be difficult.. its just.. what i developed from MachoMan was enough for me. I dont actually know if you are implying you disagree with it, or want me to make something from scratch?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399294¤tpage=180#3592
I have not seen any of this refuted either (including by Glurio)
If what you are saying is.. "What if he is bored townie"
Yes, the above doesnt consider that option. (I only considered my meta-town read on him early game)
Hence as for Bored Townie.. I think Glurio has come into the thread and thrown his weight around enough times to count a bored townie claim.
I would expect a bored townie, to exhibit tendencies akin to OO - i.e. fully disappear from the thread.
I admit OO case perhaps was rage-induced, but that is what I would expect none the less.
Bored Townie:Come in the thread purely to lay down a vote.
Also meta-wise, Glurio is historically a low-post contributor, so I can not associate activity as a read for scum or bored townie.
Also Note: Glurio has still been commenting on things (e.g. last night); which suggests he is still reading the thread (all 186 pages of it)...
Im happy to discuss this in more detial, just highlight what you want to focus on.
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On March 07 2013 13:07 layabout wrote:
since an sk is even less likely given what we know we have even more reason to lynch aqua!
I have asked a few times if this is the sole reason:
On March 04 2013 10:30 layabout wrote:
I am suggesting that aqua is claiming he was roleblocked for towncred, since scum should have roleblocked vivax.
(No response from you)
Considering you thought he was town prior to the RB; I dont think this RB logic is enough to warrant a lynch.
Also for consideration:
If you think it was stupid i chased JJ; note that, when JJ was NOT RB'd... Aqua was.
And I already pointed out a potential reason for the Aqua RB here:
On March 07 2013 09:31 MilkSuckler wrote:That makes sense at least. Im thinking Aquanim was RB'd for this comment during N2 On March 03 2013 20:36 Aquanim wrote:
<To Geript>
If you survive the night I'll wager 5 internet points that you don't get lynched tomorrow. A little bird has whispered in my ear.
tl;dr
I don't support an Aquanim lynch based off RB speculation.
If you think Aqua is scum, perhaps you can provide supporting filter evidence.
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On March 07 2013 13:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
That flip in reasoning from jcarlsoniv is hella bad. Indefensible practically.
@MilkSuckler - I never defended WoS. I said I would read into him last night and just went to sleep before I really could. Why would you call me out for defending a player you think is town? Can you explain how my tunneling of toadesstern was based in any way on a "policy lynch"?
This is the 3rd time I have told you. i dont even know what you are talking about in regards to toad and a policy lynch.
I dont give a shit if you are ?phone? posting, support it with a quote.
I called you out on WoS because it has been evident for several real life days now, you are posting without reading things.. which concerns me, because Day1, you act like someone who is chasing the facts around the clock. And slowly the behaviour has changed to now, you make wild comments founded upon no fact.
I have already shown where you defend WoS, who was never cast into danger.
Attacking JJ and supporting his lynch is indefensible. JJ is almost certainly the town roleblocker. If you believe JJ is lying then you must also believe that Vivax is his scumbuddy. You're not committing to your own read here though which is really worrisome. I think we should lynch you today. Again, do you not read the thread?
This was written before you went gung-ho for me.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399294¤tpage=185#3697
(I will admit we posted at the same time stamp.. but it just proves I already changed my conclusion based on information I did not consider) That has been fully transparent.
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On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). I am not sure what you expect out of a case? Your efforts on OO had ?3? points mildly expanded.
A case is made to bandwagon support for a lynch typically by identifying scummy behaviour. I think this case succeeded in that and I do not think the quotes were cherry picked either. It demonstrates examples you, yourself admit can be interpreted as scummy.
The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Are you able to summarise the remainder of his filter differently? I thought "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" is a sound synopsis.
Glurio hasn't contributed much but this case isn't enough to convince me. In fact, this reads as a pretty half-hearted attempt by a player with IamP's experience. I have been iffy with IamP all game. As scum, he needs to pick on bad townies - of which Glurio certainly applies. However, because I agreed with the case, and it came at a time in the thread whether direction was needed; I thought it was a town motivated post to make.
I havnt seen an IamP case before though (only played 1 game with him) so dont feel confident making the statement you are. Will stick with a town read until proven guilty.
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On March 07 2013 13:40 WaveofShadow wrote:
People are called out multiple times as well throughout the thread, hell I didn't even include Prom. That is almost EVERYONE in the thread Mocsta has suggested we lynch. Throwing around suspicion at absolutely everyone he possibly can all the time doesn't exactly strike me as town behaviour.
There are a few more gut things that bother me about Mocsta but his filter is just so godawful to go through right now I just can't do it anymore. Hell you can add filter occlusion to the list. His play reminds me VERY STGRONGLY of his play from NMM 37.
Scummy.
(1) This is retarded.
If you manage to secure a mislynch of this, you need to look closely at your reads. Everything you highlighted indicates a townie that gives a shit about the game... not a scum player.
Instead of looking at who is accused, why dont you read the reasoning. A lot of is sound (based on what we knew at the time).. the development of thought process is transparent.
Frankly, I am getting pissed off you keep refering to my scum game in NMM37. The only thing that is common is activity which is not an indicator for me.
My agenda is completely different from NMM37, that game, i tunneled one guy as an excuse to contribute.
If anything, your post makes me confirmed town, if you want to put so much emphasis into meta.
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On March 07 2013 13:41 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:28 MilkSuckler wrote:On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). I am not sure what you expect out of a case? Your efforts on OO had ?3? points mildly expanded. That was, what, three hours into the game? Anyway that's not the point. My point is that I don't think these two particular points make Glurio scum necessarily. Townies sometimes choose to contribute in ways that are stereotypically scummy. I'm not complaining about the effort put in, I'm complaining that I don't think these are super-indicative of scum. Which is not to say that I'm wedded to the idea that Glurio is town, just that these points aren't convincing enough on their own. Show nested quote +A case is made to bandwagon support for a lynch typically by identifying scummy behaviour. I think this case succeeded in that and I do not think the quotes were cherry picked either. It demonstrates examples you, yourself admit can be interpreted as scummy. The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Are you able to summarise the remainder of his filter differently? I thought "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" is a sound synopsis. Yes it adequately defines Glurio. Seeing as how it describes HALF OF THE PLAYERS adequately it's not scummy enough to convince me that Glurio is scum. tl;dr This case does not convince me. I would welcome a convincing case. Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:27 The Macho Man wrote:On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Glurio hasn't contributed much but this case isn't enough to convince me. In fact, this reads as a pretty half-hearted attempt by a player with IamP's experience. maybe you should i dont know look at my past cases... that i have made in other games....... I may do that. Show nested quote +
i dont know how anyone can read glurios filter and possibly think he is town. He is totally disconnected and hides behind dead player that is fucking scummy.
Now the bolded is an interesting point and one I will explore further. Unfortunately I think a number of townies are probably disconnected from the game following Blazinghand's one-man "wagon of justice" driving for the last two days but still.
OK, i like the response here, and you raise valid points. I will write a case on Glurio when I get home tonight and address your (valid) concerns, say 8 hrs? Its too hard to write cases at work :sob:
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All
To re-emphasise the obvious.
On March 07 2013 09:00 GreYMisT wrote:
It is now day 4! the day will last 24 hours! with 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch!
This is the first time all game we haven't had a clear front runner for lynch, and with ~18hrs left I am getting concerned about consolidation (mainly because most of the action will occur whilst I am asleep & there are signs of strong disagreement).
I suggest for this cycle we stick with the 3 candidates seriously proposed:
(1) Glurio
(2) jcarlsoniv
(3) Aquanim
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On March 07 2013 15:14 ObviousOne wrote:
if you're still here is that a parallel or series list of names. Is that the order you think is most likely to flip red?
I'll give glurio another read when I'm at a proper computer but I know I was concerned about jcarl given his threatening tone towards DocH earlier and his eagerness to vote that I also pointed out.
Ordered by introduction as lynch candidate.
My vote is on glurio as it stands. Will have a deeper re-think when I get home and have a chance to read all 3 filters.
Welcome back to the thread.
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On March 07 2013 15:17 Aquanim wrote:
Well if someone brings a convincing case against someone not on that list I have no intention of not following it based on some silly policy.
I agree town is not in a clear-win situation; but I would rather have a lynch with the number advantage we have currently than go through a no-lynch.
If you think there is chance for convincing cases elsewhere, perhaps, you can take the lead and provide us a suitable alternative.
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WoS
##Vote: WoS
Now thou hast been summoth..
Curious is it not: that Restraining Order in his filter of a mere 2 pages, chooses to represent you as town multiple occurrences.
On February 26 2013 11:01 Restraining Order wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 10:57 geript wrote:
Wave lurked most of day 1 and was semi-active in the last 8 or so, maybe more. Right now my top scum read is on WoS. His emotion core is drastically different from that in nmm36. In 36 his emotions were consistent and now theyre mostly crashing between joking and angry. All of it feels forced and unnatural. His post style is far different as well. Lots of little nothing posts I don't see as big of a difference as you make it sound. And slight differences in posting are to be fully expected from new players.
Curiousity amplified: considering the original context Geript references is VE quotes regarding Geript.
What dost make of this ! 
P.S. For good measure
On February 26 2013 11:40 Restraining Order wrote:
I'd be fine with getting Wave pardoner.
That post makes it unlikely he's mafia.
P.P.S And more 15min later 
On February 26 2013 11:56 Restraining Order wrote:
In fact, all the worries about the pardoner being mafia can be silenced if we just give it to a townie.
So I'm going to vote WoS for now. On February 26 2013 11:58 grush57 wrote:
why does everyone think WoS is town et On February 26 2013 12:00 Restraining Order wrote:Because his posts shows the kind of logic I would expect a townie to use. I find it hard to believe scum would fake something like this, especially not a new player. And it doesn't look copy-pasted.
In a way, his plan works, even though it's not a good plan, because he proposed a plan that's not good, which makes it kinda good.
So Restraining Order in all his love for town, has decided it is best we vote WoS into pardoner.. a role beneficial *ONLY* for scum.
P.P.P.S
On March 07 2013 15:17 Aquanim wrote:
Well if someone brings a convincing case against someone not on that list I have no intention of not following it based on some silly policy.
Aqua, you were right. We need to vote someone off the list of Glurio, jcarlsoniv, aquanim.
##Vote: WoS
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On February 27 2013 11:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Prom layabout jj geript testsubject vivax On February 27 2013 11:34 Restraining Order wrote:
[Prom layabout jj geript testsubject vivax]
Yes Maybe Yes Yes No Yes
TestSubject
Want to have a go explaining this one....
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(1)
Aquanim,
The case on TestSubject893 hasn't swayed me.
Maybe my heuristics are flawed, but, I still see honesty and confusion in his posts; so my vote won't go there.
(2)
Aquanim,
I am disappointed you think the case on WoS is based on tenuous associations.
As far as I am concerned, WoS association with RO; in addition to his scripted post are enough to warrant a lynch.
=========================
(3)
All
I think with the numbers advantage we need to remove the Vivax WIFOM out of the equation sooner than later.
So I will support JJ with a Vivax lynch for this cycle.
If he flips scum, great
if he flips town, we can all move on. If he is vig, hes just a VT now anyways and has barely been contributing recently.
The important thing is, we need a majority = 8 votes, otherwise no lynch
##Vote: Vivax
Lets all get behind this.
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On March 07 2013 23:19 Vivax wrote:
Must be scum at this point. Considering MilkSuckler's latest play and the fact that glurio and jcarlson seem to exclude each other as scum unless they hard bussed each other early we lynch jcarl. If jcarl flips red, which seems very likely, we should consider lynching MilkSuckler tomorrow.
Funny how the two people trying to get me lynched is:
WoS
&
Vivax
no one else, (Dr.H was more OMGUS)
Funny, JJ has a solid scum read on Vivax
and I have a solid scum read on WoS
& there is 2 scum remaining.
Yeah, my vote remains on you Vivax
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On March 07 2013 23:28 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Everyone is so eager to jump onto this bandwagon on me. I'm going to laugh so hard when you guys are sitting there with green blood on your hands.
Im not jumping there.
sounds like layabout wont either.
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On March 07 2013 23:27 layabout wrote:
For all intents and purposes we are treating vivax as town.
To be frank, I wasn't considering a Vivax lynch until JJ brought him up. - obvious from my WoS case.
But doubt on Vivax has been cast several times.. I think for the benefit of town, its best to remove him regardless of alignment.. hes barely contributing now that he is in 2 games anyways (and was contributing fuck all before hand). I dont see it as a big loss to town with scum restricted to 1KP.
Nobody has provided good reasons for us to not lynch aqua. Scum KP was missing but we are supposed to believe that scum didn't shoot and choose to block aquanim over the claimed vig or the claimed jailkeeper. The most likely scenario is that scum messed up their actions and aqua claimed a roleblock for towncred. It's also strange that he pointed out what in his filter is supposed to have drawn the roleblock since he has no need to attempt to drawn a roleblock and mafia would have no good reason to try to bluesnipe with their block when there are 2 claimed blue and 1 dead blue.
It was me who pointed out what I think could have drawn an Aquanim RB.
I agree the RB is odd; but you're looking from the perspective of an experienced player that *always* makes the right mafia decisions.
Vivax is an unorthodox player.
My read: WoS, is new to the arts of scum play. - As are a plethora of remaining players.
Its reasonable to assume they didnt know any better.
Yes this is an association defense, but considering there are fuck all vets left; its also fair to apply this heuristic to any scum team combination that doesnt include Dr.H or yourself.
==========
If you want an example, Mafia LIX
I was killed N3 (before other vets in the game - and to the shock of several in the obs qt)
Why? The only scum team left were newer players and made questionable decisions. (IIRC they eliminated me because of the threat that I was more familiar with their game, then the vets)
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Well I will support WaveOfShadow or Vivax
based on what is on the cards today. I am not fussed on the order, as long as we can agree to the 8 votes for a lynch (which is looking difficult currently)
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jcarl, its out of my hands (being in Australia timezone). I wake up 1 hr before lynch, and only have phone access till deadline.
As I said before, I will support WoS or Vivax lynch; which ever is closer to hitting 8 votes for majority.
Im going to be pissed if we can't consolidate between those two (unless you are layabout lol)
Going to bed now anyways.
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On March 07 2013 23:51 layabout wrote:
i'd would've sworn aqua had pointed it out but it appear he didn't
killing vivax today would be a sack of stupid.
If not vivax, will you support WoS lynch?
if you and I swap; I believe that gives us 5 votes out of 8 required.
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EPT
