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Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 12 2013 19:10 GMT
#701
Okay calm down guys no need to jump on the hate train here. We are informing mandalor that we think his vote was not very town motivated. No need to make him feel like he is literally hitler or anything.

And I don't think he "caved quickly" since that vote has been around for a while and I've complained about it before.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
February 12 2013 19:11 GMT
#702
No hate train, I'm just curious since you could argue that my vote on Macheji is essentially the same thing yet no one has mentioned it.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 12 2013 19:14 GMT
#703
You want me to tell you that I thought your vote was dumb too? OK.

Your vote is dumb too.

Better?
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Mandalor
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Germany2362 Posts
February 12 2013 19:15 GMT
#704
On February 13 2013 02:50 glurio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2013 02:46 Sn0_Man wrote:
On February 13 2013 02:38 glurio wrote:
On February 13 2013 00:57 zarepath wrote:
glurio, who are your top scum reads right now?


Mandalor i'd like to hear more from.
Sevryn might be scum making a terrible case on me voting and hoping for a wagon.
Other than that i have nothing right now.


I can understand how a town would feel like this as well, but as I recall one of the hallmarks of newer scum is an inability to make cases due to knowing everybody's alignment (and of course not wishing to bus the real scum).

Plus glurio has kept his post/contribution levels quite low (although admittedly if he doesn't have any leads then posting doesn't make a ton of sense). At least there is much less sheep in his play this game compared to last. Again though, that could definitely be a meta update based on the results of last game.


Well i feel like you are really tunneling me. Nothing i'll do will please you. If i post less, i'm scum, if i get more active i changed my meta, still scum. What do you want from me?
Right now i try to ask questions in mandalors direction. If he simply doesn't answer and does not give me anything to work with i really can't make a case on him right now.


Go ahead and ask me questions. You asked me about the WoS case when I wasn't here. And I suppose you don't want me to elaborate on that anymore now.
Then you asked me about Mocsta. I've already said that I get a scummy vibe from him in any game he plays. Last game we played together it became painfully obvious when he quoted a bs post and said that changed his mind to swing the vote in favor of mislynching me. Obv I couldn't tell anybody since I was dead.
I just hope that either a) Mocsta is town or b) Mocsta fucks up again and I'm alive and able to notice and point it out.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 12 2013 19:16 GMT
#705
Okay that was flippant and unhelpful. A more reasonable response is something like: Your play may have been questionable, but at least you are putting a lot of effort into playing. Day 1, my prime goal is contribution from everybody and if I have to pressure people's actions, then I will. I didn't feel any need to pressure you (you were under plenty earlier and have a decent post count).
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 12 2013 19:18 GMT
#706
ebwop: @WoS
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Mandalor
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Germany2362 Posts
February 12 2013 19:18 GMT
#707
On February 13 2013 04:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
Pressure voting someone who clearly is not playing the game is a waste of your vote and an excuse to slink into the shadows, as Sn0 said. Why are you trying to pressure someone who is obviously not going to respond? It's a waste of time. People will make their first post without being pushed. Trying to push someone to make their first post is simply wasteful.


That vote was very early in the game. I thought it might trigger a post out of an anxious player. It's odd how people felt that was an okay thing to do at the time and 24 hours later I'm getting tons of flak for this. Where were you guys yesterday?
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 12 2013 19:22 GMT
#708
@Mandalor: You unvoted the 0-poster, who would you like to lynch right now? You don't have to vote them, but lets hear some reasons etc.

It can be a "Lynch Scum" plan or a "Lynch Lurker" plan. Whatever seems right to you. I know this may take time to make a real choice, but the lynch is coming up quicker than you know so lets hear some scumhunting now
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Sevryn
Profile Joined September 2010
698 Posts
February 12 2013 19:23 GMT
#709
On February 13 2013 02:50 glurio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2013 02:46 Sn0_Man wrote:
On February 13 2013 02:38 glurio wrote:
On February 13 2013 00:57 zarepath wrote:
glurio, who are your top scum reads right now?


Mandalor i'd like to hear more from.
Sevryn might be scum making a terrible case on me voting and hoping for a wagon.
Other than that i have nothing right now.


I can understand how a town would feel like this as well, but as I recall one of the hallmarks of newer scum is an inability to make cases due to knowing everybody's alignment (and of course not wishing to bus the real scum).

Plus glurio has kept his post/contribution levels quite low (although admittedly if he doesn't have any leads then posting doesn't make a ton of sense). At least there is much less sheep in his play this game compared to last. Again though, that could definitely be a meta update based on the results of last game.


Well i feel like you are really tunneling me. Nothing i'll do will please you. If i post less, i'm scum, if i get more active i changed my meta, still scum. What do you want from me?
Right now i try to ask questions in mandalors direction. If he simply doesn't answer and does not give me anything to work with i really can't make a case on him right now.

Are you really asking here what you can do to not be considered scum?


To everyone else I am going to work and am not sure if I will be able to be on again before the vote. I will be leaving my vote on glurio because he seems the scummiest to me right now.
Mandalor
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Germany2362 Posts
February 12 2013 19:23 GMT
#710
On February 13 2013 04:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2013 04:01 Mandalor wrote:
On February 13 2013 02:36 Sn0_Man wrote:
Regarding Mandalor, voting a lurker with more than a day left to lynch is a safe vote, not a pressure vote. Its a "well now that my vote is down I can go back to hiding and only change it if I need to" kind of vote. Admitting that it is a "pressure vote" also defeats the purpose (as Sylencia has pointed out). Town care about their votes, as votes are (generally) the only power they have. Scum want their votes to give away as little information as possible, to cheapen the very concept of a vote. It should be decently clear which of those two things random "pressure votes" are. Including some of the ones you have thrown around too.


If you didn't feel like my vote is a "safe vote" and attacked me for it, I would've never said that its purpose is to pressure lurkers. If you have a problem with the vote itself, fine. But when you ask me about or attack me because of it, I'm gonna have to give an honest response.
Pressure voting is totally fine and a decent power, but here it is you who defeated its purpose.

##unvote

Why cave so quickly when under such weak pressure? To me this looks like you found a quick out to change your vote to a 'better' target later on in the day.


waitwaitwait
I'm getting attacked for a pressure vote that's not pressuring and when I remove it (it's not working as intended obv) it's a quick out? Please take a step back and think about whether keeping the vote or removing it would be the smarter thing to do.
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
February 12 2013 19:24 GMT
#711
On February 13 2013 04:18 Mandalor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2013 04:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
Pressure voting someone who clearly is not playing the game is a waste of your vote and an excuse to slink into the shadows, as Sn0 said. Why are you trying to pressure someone who is obviously not going to respond? It's a waste of time. People will make their first post without being pushed. Trying to push someone to make their first post is simply wasteful.


That vote was very early in the game. I thought it might trigger a post out of an anxious player. It's odd how people felt that was an okay thing to do at the time and 24 hours later I'm getting tons of flak for this. Where were you guys yesterday?

Like Sn0 said, there were more important things to focus on such as getting info out of people. In any case, as the deadline is fast approaching and everyone's vote is split completely evenly (those who have voted, anyway), votes really aren't gaining us a whole lot of information yet. They can be sort of nice to see who bandwagons as in Zare's case against me but even that didn't go as far as he (or I, for that matter) expected it to.
Eventually people are going to have to commit, and then the fun begins.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
February 12 2013 19:26 GMT
#712
On February 13 2013 04:23 Mandalor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2013 04:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
On February 13 2013 04:01 Mandalor wrote:
On February 13 2013 02:36 Sn0_Man wrote:
Regarding Mandalor, voting a lurker with more than a day left to lynch is a safe vote, not a pressure vote. Its a "well now that my vote is down I can go back to hiding and only change it if I need to" kind of vote. Admitting that it is a "pressure vote" also defeats the purpose (as Sylencia has pointed out). Town care about their votes, as votes are (generally) the only power they have. Scum want their votes to give away as little information as possible, to cheapen the very concept of a vote. It should be decently clear which of those two things random "pressure votes" are. Including some of the ones you have thrown around too.


If you didn't feel like my vote is a "safe vote" and attacked me for it, I would've never said that its purpose is to pressure lurkers. If you have a problem with the vote itself, fine. But when you ask me about or attack me because of it, I'm gonna have to give an honest response.
Pressure voting is totally fine and a decent power, but here it is you who defeated its purpose.

##unvote

Why cave so quickly when under such weak pressure? To me this looks like you found a quick out to change your vote to a 'better' target later on in the day.


waitwaitwait
I'm getting attacked for a pressure vote that's not pressuring and when I remove it (it's not working as intended obv) it's a quick out? Please take a step back and think about whether keeping the vote or removing it would be the smarter thing to do.

To be fair, Sn0 already addressed that at the top of the page. I was only seeing how you'd react, honestly. Now as far as keeping the vote or removing it would be the smarter thing to do, are you referring to your 0-post lynch or mine? Because I know what I'm doing. Did you?
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 12 2013 19:32 GMT
#713
On February 13 2013 04:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2013 04:23 Mandalor wrote:
On February 13 2013 04:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
On February 13 2013 04:01 Mandalor wrote:
On February 13 2013 02:36 Sn0_Man wrote:
Regarding Mandalor, voting a lurker with more than a day left to lynch is a safe vote, not a pressure vote. Its a "well now that my vote is down I can go back to hiding and only change it if I need to" kind of vote. Admitting that it is a "pressure vote" also defeats the purpose (as Sylencia has pointed out). Town care about their votes, as votes are (generally) the only power they have. Scum want their votes to give away as little information as possible, to cheapen the very concept of a vote. It should be decently clear which of those two things random "pressure votes" are. Including some of the ones you have thrown around too.


If you didn't feel like my vote is a "safe vote" and attacked me for it, I would've never said that its purpose is to pressure lurkers. If you have a problem with the vote itself, fine. But when you ask me about or attack me because of it, I'm gonna have to give an honest response.
Pressure voting is totally fine and a decent power, but here it is you who defeated its purpose.

##unvote

Why cave so quickly when under such weak pressure? To me this looks like you found a quick out to change your vote to a 'better' target later on in the day.


waitwaitwait
I'm getting attacked for a pressure vote that's not pressuring and when I remove it (it's not working as intended obv) it's a quick out? Please take a step back and think about whether keeping the vote or removing it would be the smarter thing to do.

To be fair, Sn0 already addressed that at the top of the page. I was only seeing how you'd react, honestly. Now as far as keeping the vote or removing it would be the smarter thing to do, are you referring to your 0-post lynch or mine? Because I know what I'm doing. Did you?


???

Do you think that maybe you should, you know, unvote now?

Given that I helped clarify for you that your vote was dumb.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Mandalor
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Germany2362 Posts
February 12 2013 19:34 GMT
#714
Right now, I would vote Sylencia.
His response so far hasn't changed anything for me concerning his odd behavior with warbaby. WB never soft-claimed anything - yet Syl gives us this odd post saying he's most likely vig or scum. That is the opposite of helpful for town. I can't think of a use for this information at this point in the game. Elimination surely can't be it when we don't know any role yet.
That combined with his uncharacteristic (I think? at least have that in my mind) lurking (yeah yeah I know, but I have posted more here than I did in any game yet) makes him my top scum read for now.
If nothing big comes up that will be my vote for tonight (will probably have to vote in 4 or 5 hours and call it a day).
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
February 12 2013 19:36 GMT
#715
On February 13 2013 04:32 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2013 04:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
On February 13 2013 04:23 Mandalor wrote:
On February 13 2013 04:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
On February 13 2013 04:01 Mandalor wrote:
On February 13 2013 02:36 Sn0_Man wrote:
Regarding Mandalor, voting a lurker with more than a day left to lynch is a safe vote, not a pressure vote. Its a "well now that my vote is down I can go back to hiding and only change it if I need to" kind of vote. Admitting that it is a "pressure vote" also defeats the purpose (as Sylencia has pointed out). Town care about their votes, as votes are (generally) the only power they have. Scum want their votes to give away as little information as possible, to cheapen the very concept of a vote. It should be decently clear which of those two things random "pressure votes" are. Including some of the ones you have thrown around too.


If you didn't feel like my vote is a "safe vote" and attacked me for it, I would've never said that its purpose is to pressure lurkers. If you have a problem with the vote itself, fine. But when you ask me about or attack me because of it, I'm gonna have to give an honest response.
Pressure voting is totally fine and a decent power, but here it is you who defeated its purpose.

##unvote

Why cave so quickly when under such weak pressure? To me this looks like you found a quick out to change your vote to a 'better' target later on in the day.


waitwaitwait
I'm getting attacked for a pressure vote that's not pressuring and when I remove it (it's not working as intended obv) it's a quick out? Please take a step back and think about whether keeping the vote or removing it would be the smarter thing to do.

To be fair, Sn0 already addressed that at the top of the page. I was only seeing how you'd react, honestly. Now as far as keeping the vote or removing it would be the smarter thing to do, are you referring to your 0-post lynch or mine? Because I know what I'm doing. Did you?


???

Do you think that maybe you should, you know, unvote now?

Given that I helped clarify for you that your vote was dumb.

My vote on Macheji stands. LAL and whatnot.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
February 12 2013 19:37 GMT
#716
On February 13 2013 04:34 Mandalor wrote:
Right now, I would vote Sylencia.
His response so far hasn't changed anything for me concerning his odd behavior with warbaby. WB never soft-claimed anything - yet Syl gives us this odd post saying he's most likely vig or scum. That is the opposite of helpful for town. I can't think of a use for this information at this point in the game. Elimination surely can't be it when we don't know any role yet.
That combined with his uncharacteristic (I think? at least have that in my mind) lurking (yeah yeah I know, but I have posted more here than I did in any game yet) makes him my top scum read for now.
If nothing big comes up that will be my vote for tonight (will probably have to vote in 4 or 5 hours and call it a day).

I recommend you do a full case on his filter outlining more than just that SINGLE reason for him being scummy.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 12 2013 19:41 GMT
#717
On February 13 2013 04:34 Mandalor wrote:
Right now, I would vote Sylencia.
His response so far hasn't changed anything for me concerning his odd behavior with warbaby. WB never soft-claimed anything - yet Syl gives us this odd post saying he's most likely vig or scum. That is the opposite of helpful for town. I can't think of a use for this information at this point in the game. Elimination surely can't be it when we don't know any role yet.
That combined with his uncharacteristic (I think? at least have that in my mind) lurking (yeah yeah I know, but I have posted more here than I did in any game yet) makes him my top scum read for now.
If nothing big comes up that will be my vote for tonight (will probably have to vote in 4 or 5 hours and call it a day).


There we go! See, I can think of an explanation for most of what Syl is doing, but I'm not going to call you out if you can't. I think WB soft-claimed, but I can definitely see how others think he didn't. I like you you picked a name, gave a real reason that was consistent with your earlier posts, and didn't even need to make it too long.

Obviously this doesn't prove you are town but it certainly helps your chances of not being lynched today. For now, I won't ask more but keep in mind that we expect more of THIS POST as often as is reasonable for you to manage (I know its time consuming).
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 12 2013 19:48 GMT
#718
On February 13 2013 04:37 zarepath wrote:
I recommend you do a full case on his filter outlining more than just that SINGLE reason for him being scummy.


Well, that basically is Sylencia's whole filter...

On February 13 2013 04:36 WaveofShadow wrote:
My vote on Macheji stands. LAL and whatnot.


You have yet to explain the value to lynching Macheji. Since Macheji is currently not part of this game (in any meaningful fashion) you are currently voting for a no-lynch, which is generally accepted as terrible day 1. Unless you are psychic and know what his replacement will say day 2?

Now, if Macheji/9-bit show up shortly before the deadline to vote, then by all means we lynch them ded, but for now... you are not helping town with that vote. As I spent so long explaining to mandalor.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
February 12 2013 19:52 GMT
#719
I feel like doing a full case on Sevryn right now but I have a midterm soon so I don't have the time to follow up. Will be back a few hours pre-vote.

Sevryn has been tunneling Glurio REAL hard all game. The only post not directed at Glurio since yesterday was one talking about how he wants to see more from lurkers like Mandalor when they have contributed far more than he has. His filter is one page long and the first few posts are all game theory crap. Not linking here because you can check the filter yourself; real easy read.

Now I don't like glurio this game either so I'm going to speculate a little.
I don't believe they are both scum. If they were both scum and Sevryn implicates glurio, then he is in danger of being lynched D1 due to lurker/scummy reads on him so far. I can't see him doing this and leaving it up to chance at the end of the day like he says. I don't believe this is a bus attempt either because it's a newbie game, and bussing is real big talk most of the time. I don't believe they are both good town either because each has posted 'just enough' to attempt to stay under radar while contributing absolutely nothing of value. Essentially I believe either Sevryn or glurio are scum right now, with another scum being one of the 0-post lurkers, Sylencia or geript as I had stated earlier.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
February 12 2013 19:52 GMT
#720
On February 13 2013 04:48 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2013 04:37 zarepath wrote:
I recommend you do a full case on his filter outlining more than just that SINGLE reason for him being scummy.


Well, that basically is Sylencia's whole filter...

Show nested quote +
On February 13 2013 04:36 WaveofShadow wrote:
My vote on Macheji stands. LAL and whatnot.


You have yet to explain the value to lynching Macheji. Since Macheji is currently not part of this game (in any meaningful fashion) you are currently voting for a no-lynch, which is generally accepted as terrible day 1. Unless you are psychic and know what his replacement will say day 2?

Now, if Macheji/9-bit show up shortly before the deadline to vote, then by all means we lynch them ded, but for now... you are not helping town with that vote. As I spent so long explaining to mandalor.


Here's the thing -- we don't KNOW that he'll be replaced, and it is actually to scum's advantage for replacements to come in because we have less info on them if they ARE scum and have plenty of excuses to roll with, and if they're NOT scum town is still going to spend a bunch of energy wondering about this mysterious replacement when they come in.
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
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