EPT/in - its cool if im not wanted either
Nomination Mafia
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/in - its cool if im not wanted either | ||
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The risk/reward of putting 3 town for nomination, reminds me of the whole bodyguard speculation. It can even go as wild as putting in 3 scum; to bus one and clear the other 2. Either way, wont talk about this anymore till game starts. | ||
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On February 05 2013 10:01 Djodref wrote: No, I was just teasing you. I think being less confrontational is good, but you sometimes feel the need to commit to a stupid attack/argument. And I can understand that. LOL. Normal Mini was the complete opposite. i.e. non-existent | ||
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On February 05 2013 11:47 yamato77 wrote: I promise I won't be retarded this game, Marv. Awww how cute Yam. Pls remember, dont make promises you cant keep  : | ||
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On February 05 2013 12:05 prplhz wrote: maybe marv just felt outclassed? Yeah makes sense Fact 1 Oats was the sole blip on Marvs grade card for Mafia LIX Fact 2 Oats is in this game Conclusion Fact 1 + Fact 2 => Yes, Marv felt outclased | ||
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#first.world.problems | ||
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Are the teams rolled or persoanally balanced? | ||
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With the plurality lynch, what happens if the top 2 candidates are tied. Is it No lynch; or candidate who just tied with vote leader, needs to over take vote leader to become new leader? | ||
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On February 05 2013 22:28 Oatsmaster wrote: lol Mocsta, stop trying to solve the game PREGAME :D Your already heading towards being blacklisted Oats hahaha On January 28 2013 07:37 GMarshal wrote: Read this section A few GMarshal specific tidbits 2.) Don't spam. This isn't IRC, try to consolidate your posts, its horrible when pages 20-80 are all one line posts between two players yelling at each other | ||
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I thought op said no smurfs allowed due to meta being useful? | ||
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See now i have lulled you into letting me live till day 4. Yes! | ||
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Or am i¿¡¿?!? | ||
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think of the children the only suitable outcome. The outcome that is merited by logic. Yes i. Am innocent child and ?masked¿ | ||
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On February 06 2013 08:18 VisceraEyes wrote: Shit, better calm down daddy's gonna be home soon. :X so yamato still tucking u into bed then and leaving the nite light on? | ||
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On February 06 2013 08:25 marvellosity wrote: wtf is going on here Dunno. Im bored and no current game to read i think this starts in 2hours which is good. | ||
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the usual stuff Im +8 GMT & nominating myself for mayor o.0 | ||
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*sigh* VE: Plan is still in action  | ||
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Lurker lynching: I assume lurking won't be an issue this game (GM stated in OP he would be blacklisting lurking activity) Lying lynching: Everyone is vanilla, so dunno how much this actually applies either. So looks like its pure traditional scum hunting. ##Vote: Oatsmaster I almost got you to concede last game as scum; perhaps this vote is the finishing touch required for you to concede this game! | ||
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Im disturbed Oats had a problem with the Day 1 post. BioSC clearly said it would be a phone post. Oats is looking for an easy way to contribute, without contributing. Vote stands  | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: Mocsta For Mayor! //spam over now ##Unvote | ||
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#1 - You aren't reading the thread. Considering its less than one page old. This means you dont care and are most likely too involved with discussions in the scum qt !!! OR #2 - Your wit is as useful as a football bat. This means you are not of use and are most likely to be involved with discussions in the scum qt !!! ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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##Unvote Working on a real post to prompt some discussion. Gimme 5min. | ||
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Overall, I think the analysis of possible motives will be of much more significance than other games - for both town trying to hunt scum, and for scum trying to blend in. The nomination mechanic in particular is interesting and I see several avenues scum may wish to explore. With the nomination scum might:
As such there is a lot of WIFOM potention in that scum may mix one scum in with the nomination to lower the likelihood that town can use 'process of elimination' to find scum. But to accomplish this, at least a couple of scum are going to have to put a lot of effort into looking at least "leaning townie" if not townier than that. I see the best path forward for town, as to play and eliminate the first option (scummy looking town). One way to to this is to pressure the least active Day 1 peeople, to establish a high standard of activity all around (quality and quantity). The harder scum have to try in order to look "average", the more likely it is that they will mess up somewhere. Obviously most games start with this intent, but I think this game is where it is more pertinent than ever to maintain quality posts and solid play. How do I plan to act for this game: I am going to be open and transparent in my play. I will be as forthcoming as I can with my scumreads and thoughts at any point in the game. I expect that my actions and motives will speak louder than my words. @All What do you think of the above. Do you it is wise to to reduce the chance of scum looking town as a counter to the nomination mechanic? | ||
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On February 06 2013 11:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Basically standerd talk. Who doesnt say this? Like lol whats the point of writing this. As a counterarguement, I say we lynch the scummiest person available to us. Who cares who scum sent up? How do we lynch scum in a normal game? Because they are scummy right? Well people like you have a tendency/history to be viewed as scummy when town; does that mean we should automatically vote for you? I think not. If I was to vote for you, it would be because I see scum motives in your actions enough times to have built a case; OR because your on the nomination table and I see you as either the most likely to be scum, or in the case all three candidates are town reads for me - because I deem you to be the least useful for a town victory. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=10#198 I did not simply summarise the OP as a way to contribute without contributing. Im actually applying some thought process into how this nomination mechanic works, and how scum may try to use it to their advantage. A method that I raised to reduce the WIFOM potential of the nomination mechanic, is to overall increase town quality of play to thus, REDUCE the number of townie-looking scum. In effect lowering the possibilities scum have at hand for creating confusion. Hence, I indeed view discussions pertaining to the nomination mechanic as beneficial. The choices scum have for nomination will be based on the status quo of the ODD days; so it is paramount to consider ODD day play for EVEN day nomination. TL;DR I dont think this game is as simple as "lynch the scummiest person". We know from every single game played, there is usually a mislynch. This game is even harder, as without any blue roles to aid in "confirming townies" greater effort must be put in to avoid continuation mislynches - scum hunting must always take precedence. As such, Oats, I think you are missing the point of this game; and should re-read my post that I linked above. | ||
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Agreed, the things I am writing about are not revelations. Is this game that solved for you, that anytime someone writes something it has to be 100% original and never heard of before? Is that your criteria of good town play? If you want me to expound on what constitutes solid town play. It is to avoid the copying your play. And I will comment on this for one last time. The game is not as simple as "lynch the scummiest player"; otherwise scummy looking town like you would be insta-voted off. This game requires more reason and effort put into cases to identify motives behind actions. If you cant see that, you may as well quit and let someone who wants to take this game seriously replace you. | ||
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On February 06 2013 12:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Im not scum here and thats all that matters. Right, we are meant to take that at face value and keep you in till the bitter end? If so, you have managed to rank much higher on my stupid-o-meter after a handful of posts, than you did all game Mafia LIX. You say I am not helping town? All you have done is try to fling shit at the only active participant thus far. Great help your doing. Oats, this game is obviously too much of a step up in difficulty for your current forum-mafia skill level. Just quit and let someone that knows how to play replace you. | ||
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So far, your play is about reacting to minute details in early-game posts trying to promote discussion. You are trying to shit all over them, without providing additional avenues for discourse. There is nothing solid in your play so far. This leads me to think: (1) You are bad townie / scummy townie - don't know any better (2) You are bored - trying to troll (3) You are scum - trying to derail You don't typically try to troll; so its (1) or (3). The win-con for town is to lynch all (3); and I already suggested prior we need to improve post quality to reduce the number of (1)s. Hence, either way, your current behaviour is a problem for town. | ||
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On February 06 2013 11:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Well yes, if all 3 candidates are town reads, which I think could be likely especially in the first few days, then we lynch the least useful so far. Why do you think there is high potential for the nomination candidates to be all town? | ||
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On February 06 2013 13:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Go on, Explain how I am not promoting discussion. Also, this seems eerily familiar to your start in Newbie mafia XXXV where you were scum. I wonder why Fair comment. we did butt heads (me scum, you town). But I think this exchange has gone differently.
As I said previously, we dont have blue roles to provide confirmed townies. The challenge presented is thus much greater. I dont (and still dont) think you appreciate this fact; and i think that is a big problem. Having said that, I am going to stop pushing this agenda. Theres enough posts on the matter. Its your decision. Maybe when someone of more forum-mafia credibility addresses this, it might make you realise. | ||
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On February 06 2013 13:46 Oatsmaster wrote: The reason I think so is so we are forced to lynch a potentially strong player before they really 'hit' their stride. Also, it is better for Scum in the long run that there are useless and uninvested townies which will only become evident after the first few days. For example, Austin was pretty involved day 1 in LIX, however his activity dropped off tremendously. A key point point of this game was to have experienced people playing; to remove the aspect of useless and uninvested players. Those strong town players shouldn't be voted off early; those are the guys who know how to be pro-town and establish themselves, if the top three town reads are up for nomination, I suspect it will be town read #3 that gets lynched for being the "least" useful". But yes I agree, we need more people talking than just us two. So going back to work, catcha later. | ||
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On February 06 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote: I am thoroughly confused. Blue roles aren't all that important. The challenge that this game presents is that we cant wifom about nk's. There are no night kills to provide information on who mafia thinks is important to kill. I think that is more important than no Blue roles. I like how you just discredited yourself. heh. Seriously, I want to walk away, and keep seeing stupid posts. I have to learn to resist. The lack of NKs creates even more WIFOM. Mislynched townies will present a plethora of information. Who led the wagon, who bandwagoned, did disruptions occurs. These are more applicable then ever; because it is the sole method for mafia to remove someone that is a thorn in their plans. As for blues, I cant believe I have to spell this out for you. Most games, people use blues to confirm townies by setup, not by scum hunt. We dont have that ease of access. This game is like turning off all "driving aids" when going on the race track. We doing this thing for REALZ. And yes I discredited myself and so what. I dont have forum respect/cred; so I can understand you for not listening to a guy with 5 games. But if a vet feels the same way I do, you would probably listen. Thats being a realist. | ||
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I just played a game with him (as a replacement - Normal Mini Mafia IV) he died Night 1. | ||
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(I note the irony here) | ||
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Oats is right. Its very easy for scum to come in, commit to a lurker policy lynch. I want to see some logic behind this reasoning. | ||
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*sigh* | ||
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On February 06 2013 15:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Mocsta I'm intrigued by your posts regarding the nomination phase. However I'm going to suggest/request that you save it for AFTER the dawn phase of D2 so that scum aren't given instructions on how you're going to view nominees they put up. It's going to be clear enough after D2 because we're going to have to lynch into their choices - but if we can go all of D1 without speculating on who and why scum will send up D2 I think that's going to be a net gain for town. I disagree. On February 06 2013 12:04 Mocsta wrote: The choices scum have for nomination will be based on the status quo of the ODD days; so it is paramount to consider ODD day play for EVEN day nomination. Having said that, I am going to hold off further strategy talk due to: fuck all people online. Need some others to contribute. @Snarf What do you make of VE wanting to bury all nomination mechanic talk till the nominations are released? | ||
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You sound like a whiny chick to me, who hears one word she doesnt like, and zones off to everything else. I AM NOT SETUP SPECULATING. The fuckn setup is 9 town, 4 mafia. I am saying we need to make scum work hard to become read as town, I am saying good play Day1 is to emphasise quality posts, and avoid being a lurker I am saying, bad play Day1, is going to make nominations for scum in Day2 much fuckn easier. | ||
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My motive for the quote was along the lines of: the candidates are going to be chosen based on play Day 1. Yes that statement is obvious, hoever what I am trying to highlight is that effort needs to be made to make the decision for scum difficult. I listed 4 scenarios scum can take; we can't control that decision. What we can CONTROL is the viability of one of those options - to me, this is of benefit to town as it reduces WIFOM choices. I thought my message(s) were clear cut, but, perhaps I am not communicating myself effectively. If not, please let me know. | ||
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On February 06 2013 16:26 phagga wrote: Hi all. I generally will not be around at deadlines, around this postings time will probably be the earliest you see me post. You can find my game history in my profile. @Mocsta What was your rationale behind posting the bolded part? Hi Phagga Covered here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=11#211 | ||
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I did think Snaffs was onto something when he hinted me n oats wanted the same thing. | ||
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On February 06 2013 16:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok Mocsta, What do you propose to improve the quality of the town players? Back to the one liner posts. You know in Mafia LIX, I kept saying in the Obs QT when you do it, its scummy as fuck. No one believed me.. except the flip. As for your question. I dont propose how anyone else does that besides myself. I have already stated what actions I will be taking. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=10#198 | ||
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On February 06 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Fuck you VE, I WILL NEVER SUBMIT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE FOOLS. ================== My thoughts using your words. On February 06 2013 11:46 Oatsmaster wrote: whats the point of writing this. On February 06 2013 13:29 Oatsmaster wrote: And I dont know why a town player would do this, therefore you are scum. | ||
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Stop getting over-defensive. Now you have to spell out actions. If you couldnt tell my post was a joke, you have problems. And your comment regarding my intentions is stupid. You admit yourself it is "optimal play'.. well no shit, why you think I am striving for that. Im not trying to re-invent the wheel. Again you are flinging shit at an active participant, and for what purpose? Still, no one is contributing; and the one guy who does, you tell him to "fuck off" whether joke or not. Lay off the juice and give others a chance to input into the thread. | ||
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On February 06 2013 17:05 phagga wrote: Short on time. I agree with the lurker lynching early as we cannot differentiate between lurkers and scum later on and we have no mechanic to clear lurkers / confirm them town. Will post more later. I hope you do, thats essentially a re-cap of two pages of thread. | ||
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Oats has a (recent) tendency to post one liners asking to expound points already clarified. The outcome. Shit questions get shit answers. Maybe u thought I over stepped the line in dissing him. But he was going out of his way to cherry pick sentences in a paragraph. For day1 i have been trying to promote discussion. I would contest he was actively killing the discussion. When did he promote an alternative? If you want to judge me as null fine. But don't imply he is a saint in this but referencing only me. | ||
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On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote: I just want to add something shorty in terms of lynching lurkers: D1 lynches are often crapshots, Kitaman analysed in anohter thread that town would be better off RNG the D1 lynch generally than trying to analyse and find scum. Combine this with the beformentioned fact that we have mechanics to differentiate lukers from scum or get rid of them, I therefore embrace a lynch on a lurker on who we cannot get an alignement read, should one be available. Phagga. Marv in Mafia LIX proved you can scum hunt day. As I keep saying I thought the whole point of this game setup was to mitigate lurking. Why are we talking about lurking again, and there prioritization over scum reads? If u want to counter and gibe the kitamen spiel again. Let's say your RNG plan found traction. Are you suggesting if you were the rolled lynch candidate that you would accept your fate without putting up a fight? | ||
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Im going to be as civil about this as possible. We have personal differences and will rarely ever see eye to eye on the same matters. Im not saying either of us is right. Just we both think we are right. Lets leave it as that and move on. If u genuinely think i made a scum slip sure pressure me. But seriosuly i think your clutching st straws | ||
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On February 06 2013 19:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Stop buddying me. After the olive branch i extend. This is what you write? Are you fucking serious? | ||
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On February 06 2013 19:26 Oatsmaster wrote: The way Mocsta attacked it was subtly saying that I am a hypocrite because I attacked him for doing the same thing, in his words. However, he didnt say that the sentence was scummy, condemn me for personally attacking another player, which is the 'normal' way to it. I didnt say the sentence was scummy, because I didnt think the sentence was scummy. Whats your point; your rational for why it is a scum tell is weak, and clutching at straws. Not only that, its poor scum hunting, because everyone else knows its clutching at straws; so you cant achieve anything by submitting for discussion either. | ||
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On February 06 2013 19:57 Djodref wrote: (1) @ Mocsta What is your read on Oats right now ? Also regarding the nomination mechanics, I think we should keep this for nomination events. It gives scum an easy way to participate to the discussion and maybe give them ideas on hpw to use these mechanics at best. I think we can see which strategy they decide to use when we know the nominees. @ everyone I saw that phagga brought up the statitics gathered by kita lately. Debears also mentioned it in LVIII and I shat on it because I was scum and him town at that point, but I would like to see how a random lynch would work out for this day1. I would like to propose a way to randomize the lynch in my next post. I have a leaning town read on Oats. As scum, Oats has a tendency to puff out his chest in front of mice; and whimper in a corner in front of a lion. To him I am not a lion, but his one-track mindness on him being right, is in my opinion a confidence obtained by being town. (2) Nomination mechanics: I agree its not validity to discussion at this point in time (not even half the players have inputted).. but I think it needs to be discussed at the latest after Day1 lynch (i.e. Day2 dawn phase).. the things I already listed are not rocket science. its probably things everyone else has alraedy considered, thus, its not like im developing a super-awesome battle plan that no one else can figure out. The setup is out in the open, and I think its beneficial to discuss with town the potential ramifications; it is our way of indirectly influencing scum options. Why not take this little advantage? (3) As for RNG, im not in favour. If you do that, might as well not play forum mafia, and just play in excel, where each person is a number. And every 2minutes you lynch someone randomly, until no players remain. I would think 9-4 ratio results in town winning a vast majority. If thats your cup of tea, go ahead be my guest; but Im not in support of that actoin. | ||
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On February 06 2013 20:27 Oatsmaster wrote: I didnt say the sentence was scummy, because I didnt think the sentence was scummy. Then why did you link to me saying that you were scummy? Wasnt the point to say that you thought the same thing? OHOHO Guys, we have a contradiction here How? I didnt say anything you nob head, I found your posts and pointed out something you would have said to me; if i had made the joke to VE. Stop making a fool of yourself and (un)intentionally misconstruing everything i say. As I said before, your wit is as usefull as a football bat; and that my retort to you went over your head, makes my point clearer. | ||
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On February 06 2013 20:28 Djodref wrote: Mocsta play reminds me of his play in the last newbie where he was scum, accusing people to not particpate in the pointless early game discussions and focusing on town atmosphere type arguments. The thing is that he did similar things in the games he was town but not in the game he replaced in. Slightly scum on Mocsta. Right, because meta in a newbie matters? Either way, why dont you read the posts before Oats started cherry picking things, and contesting everything I said. + I already pointed out the differences between me n oats headbutting when I was scum, and the my alignment now. On February 06 2013 13:57 Mocsta wrote: Fair comment. we did butt heads (me scum, you town). But I think this exchange has gone differently.
Do you disagree with this statement? Your post above indicates that you do.. | ||
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On February 06 2013 20:32 Djodref wrote: @ Mocsta I propose a radom lynch on Oats today. Are you in ? No I am not I already listed my read on Oats, and why I am against RNG lynch. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=14#277 | ||
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On February 06 2013 20:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Nope you are not getting away with that explanation. This means that you basically 'wrote' the words by quoting. Which means you said that my 'rage post' was scummy. DO YOU DENY THAT? No I didnt say that to you. Your posts about me leaving and getting a replacement were totally serious, and thus, my response was serious. My post was a joke, and you saying that it was scummy, is a scumtell. Anything else you dont understand? Yeah, i dont understand your point, as you are mixing two completely different issues. I am going to make one final post regarding matters, if you reply, good for you, I am not going to bother. (1) Me asking you to leave was a serious request, that I did not ever expect you to take seriously. I still think your treating this game as if its a newbie; and not giving it the respect it deserves. I am going going to insult you on why I think that is the case, only you know the real answer. (2) My post, referencing your quotes, was indeed a joke as i specified. You have already called me scum several times, for doing lesser things than your joke post to VE. I wanted to return to you the favour; you obviously can only dish it out, and not receive. So to answer your question; i dont think your "rage post" was scummy; I have already given my initial read on you (obviously subject to change as the game progresses). So yes, i deny the statement. ======= Done with you on these topics, Oats. | ||
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On February 06 2013 20:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta Clearly it does, as Marv showed in LIX, where he meta'ed me very accurately. You were also in that game, dont tell me you forgot. I made the same argument too. This is a separate conversation. And again, last I will say. Marv targeted you based on your actions, and your 180' changes in opinion on him (i.e marv is scum.. ohh marv is super town within 2 posts). He then followed up with meta. I targeted you based on meta. I have played now 3 games in a row with you, and I do think I have a grasp on your style. | ||
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For funzies I ran a RNzg and it identified you as the random lynch for day 1. Will u support me with this campaign? | ||
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RNG is stupid policy lynch. Anyone can use it as an excuse to push their agenda without penalty. I think u already realised that though and the question was rhetorical. As for oats. I didn't have a read on him since the beginning. My leaning town was based on him willing to butt heads and not retract. I don't think scum would do this at the start of the game it draws too much attention. Considering he kept going after VE called us into line. Kept going after I gave an olive branch. And kept going after I said I had had enough.. I am not as certain on town anymore. He is walking a fine line towards flaming, which is now making me revert to null. I'm still not supporting him for RNG though | ||
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I even asked us to move on because its obvious we are just two clashing personalities.you vhose to threw this back in my face. For me. You are basically a vivax. I.e or going on my auto ignore list. | ||
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Quote it otherwise learn to read and stop shitting up the thread. As I said you are approaching flaming now and THAT is scum motivated behaviour. | ||
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That is a fair deduction but isn't what was in my head. You are null for me. As for why I don't want to interact with you. Its simple. Your shitting up the thread and whoever in this game is scum have no reason to join the thread. Several have pointed this out and you keep choosing to ignore their advice. So it remains I'm ignoring you and your posts. | ||
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On February 06 2013 23:12 Djodref wrote: ; First of all, I'm going to get a read on Oats from everybody. He's a fairly active player, and I think there is enough in his filter to have a read on him. Then, I hope that some people are going to join me for this random lynch, and I expect them to give some reasoning for joining me on this. I see if they match my own reasons or not to vote Oats (which I'll keep for myself for the moment) and try to start my investigations from there. Djo. You say u have your own reasons for voting oats, yet initiated oats as a candidate by way of RNG. WTF Either u wanted him lynched before u suggested RNG Or U doing it due to RNG U can't have it both ways, which is it | ||
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On February 06 2013 23:24 Palmar wrote: ##Vote prplhz he scum Hi Palomar. Can u please expand on why? I recognise both alignmnets can break up fights. But I thought the way prplhz went about it was fairly constructive. I.e. I didn't get a scum vibe from it. | ||
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(1) Issues with people overnight
(2) Issue with Mocsta Meta Firstly, in regards to Newbie XXXV (my only completed game as scum); this is my second post in the QT. Hi Darthpunk. Its a bit hard to come up with any gameplans yet, barely anyone is contributing (here or in thread). As mentioned earlier, I would like to infiltrate town and be the scum mastermind I have had 2 games in a row where town kept saying I was that, but never had the confidence to vote for me; so i think this is a good play. i.e. I was simulating my town meta. Your calling me out for pushing town atmosphere; is something I am known for doing as town (aside from being tunneled). Therefore, those that played with me in Newbie 33/34 know pushing for a solidified town atmosphere is part of my game. I dont think that makes me pro-town, its just a trait of my character. Me and Oats butted heads in Newbie 35 not because I was scum; but because we have different avenues of pursuit. He is a loner by trait, I like to work in teams by trait. What made us kept butt heads together is because he is stubborn, and I was scum trying to flame. As evidenced again from the scum QT Hey DP/Guys.. whcih do you think is the better approach for dealing with Oats... set him up as the easy mislynch; his rational is just way too confirmation biased (I think theres a high chance he will escape the lynch because too many lurkers).. OR.. call him out as a bad townie, identify the mistakse in his play to hoepfully turn my scum read into a town read... I may get good town cred frmo this play as well... as town thats probably what I would do... even though he is a easy mislynch, his conviction seems genuine of a townie. Guess what I have been pointing out to Oats: (in my opinion) flaws in his logic/play - its pretty clear from above thats my town agenda. ========== Off to dissect Yamato case | ||
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What you wrote was interesting, I dont feel the same way you do about the first post + vote. At the time I interpreted it as a pressure vote, standard Day1 banter. Having said that, it left me null: breaking up fights is not alignment indicative. As for the final post you quoted; im at a cross roads too. I dont like he defended Palmar without reason, it was something I noted (internally) before too. But I dont know you enough to know if the meta argument is valid, aside from that, I dont see much from him to support a vote that could carry to a lynch. ====== Im not supporting a Snarfs lynch with the current post interactions. Yes, I need to see more from Snarfs, Yes, he has done a good job of standing in the middle, and Yes when asked to present info, it was not as analytical as I would have hoped. He is actuallyl asking us to look into the filter, instead of present his "finds". While the last point can be seem as scummy, im actually fixated on Yamato currently (I am about to start building a case / retort to his case on me) - its hard building a case at work | ||
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On February 07 2013 09:44 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Sloosh WTF This better have a damn good explanation. | ||
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On February 07 2013 09:48 jaybrundage wrote: Oh and plz peoples give me your thoughts on my Djo case. Agreed. For me, its between him/yamato/jiexian. On February 07 2013 09:19 Mocsta wrote: (1) Issues with people overnight
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On February 07 2013 09:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Chill out guys, I think he is scum. I also agree with Djo, Snarf is waffly as shit. I wanna see more from sloosh though You "think he is scum". Can you expound on that? ( im talking to you the way you talk to me, hoping that way we speak the same language for once) If you find that too vague, what I would say is "You think he is scum" Please identify what you think in his play is based on scum motives? Please identify if you think those motives could have town rationale behind it. | ||
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On February 07 2013 10:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Dont defend him and shit, Sloosh, have you only played in LVIII Parellel Worlds Liquid City LVII Dwarf Fortress? Im not defending him. Im saying expound on what you find scummy. Your not giving a town read; your giving a scummy read, obviously you have a bunch of tells. I want to know what I am missing. | ||
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Mocsta breakdown on Yamato Case against Mocsta http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=17#335 + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: This is from page 1 of Mocsta's filter in LIX, the game he was town. He gives out, in the part I bolded, his rationale in thinking Toad and I might be mafia, but in doing so reveals his own thought process when mafia, that being passive-aggressive is a way to play mafia. Yes, being passive-aggressive is “A” way to play mafia. There are also many other ways. Whats the point of this? You are meant to adapt to the environment at hand. I have given my thought process of how to manipulate staying off the radar; you can do that as town or scum. Your thought process is very lazy Yamato, and the outcome you have specified lacks conviction. In fact the conviction is so NOT present I can not even say you are confirmation biased. On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: This is the first alignment-indicative post Mocsta made in NMM XXXV, the game he was mafia. What do you notice here? I do not see how this is alignment-indicative. If so, I would have been a scum read to everyone in the game. (P.S. I was a town read at that point). And as others stated, the tone is completely different between the two. Hence as above, lazy heuristics (is starting to become a common theme). Try again. On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: He's making the same sort of argument about Oats this game that he did about Sn0 in the other game, that their play isn't "optimal" and they are "helping mafia". It's a fabricated read, in my eyes, and a fabricated contribution to say such things. It doesn't matter how a player is playing versus how you think the ideal town player SHOULD play, it matters if that player is playing in a way you know mafia would play. The argument is completely different. I have said repeatedly, Oats is taking a simplistic view at this game. His motto is “lynch the scummiest player”; which yes, whilst the aim of the game, is not as straight forward as that line. I have pointed out several reasons why that is case. You can read my filter if you have forgotten what they are. And I disagree with your last statement. The game of forum mafia is constantly changing. Meta shifts are constantly occurring. If we know how mafia play and react, and lynch off that; we would never mislynch and the game would be instantly solved. This is obviously not the case. Again, such a blunt statement and lazy heuristics. On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: Those two posts showcase a trait I see in Mafia Mocsta's play, a preoccupation with "contribution" and "lurking" from other players. Aside from the meta similarity here, the mafia trait is that he's doing exactly what he thinks people give out town reads for, and indeed what some of you have given him a town read for this game, simply post. He calls out "lurkers" to appear to contribute and care about the town atmosphere, something I readily see as a common trait in his mafia game and this one. I already addressed this here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=19#373 TL;DR The mafia trait he is referring to, is actually me emulating my townie trait. Again argument that doesn’t hold up; its obvious the tone between the two quoted posted is different (as the motives are different). Lazy heuristics once again. That’s 4 strikes in a row. On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: I highly doubt Mocsta is town. Who is his scum read so far? All I see in his filter is a bunch of arguing with Oats, and then arriving at the conclusion that he's town/null/whatever. It doesn't look to me like he's hunting mafia, it looks like to me that he's just trying to look town. Who is my scum read? Yamato, who has been online whilst I was active? Only Oats; who was constantly trying to argue with me, even when I was asking to walk away. Again, your entire case, each point referenced lacks any conviction – which is highly unusual for your meta known for confirmation bias. On top of this, your case is full of lazy heuristics. All points have been disputed (easily) This lack of care is enough to warrant your vote; but lets give benefit of the doubt and examine your town tells on Phagga, and the pressure that made you release the town tells. ============================== (2) Mocsta breakdown on Yamato read on Phagga + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 01:59 yamato77 wrote: Translation: I doubt Phagga scumminess, read = null to leaning townI see what Sloosh is saying about Phagga, and I agree on some level that his entrance to the thread has been weak, and relatively quiet so far. There are some things that make me doubt his scumminess, however, so what I need from him is some more meaningful contribution on things that aren't setup. That also goes for VE, who was here early spouting setup info, and then dropped off. On February 07 2013 02:34 yamato77 wrote: OK, that’s fine; giving out town tells early is dangerous so agreed. I'll make my case on Mocsta, then. I won't be giving out my town tells, however. On February 07 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote: Complete contradiction. The first post @ 02:00 says you doubt his scumminess.I said I agree with the general scumminess of phagga, in that he has some of the things I think mafia might do in his play so far. What I didn't tell you is why I doubt those, and I'm not going to. You've got to do better than equate phagga to Mocsta to prove he's scum. You're making an association case here, which is incredibly scummy this early in day 1. @ 03:42 you now say, some things are mafia oriented. In the same post you back pedal and say you still doubt it. Which is it, town or scum? You’re doing your best to stay in the middle and not commit. The contradictions are clear. You top off this post, by claiming Sl00sh is making association cases, which is clearly not happening (others already called you out on this) On February 07 2013 03:54 yamato77 wrote: I already have my vote on him. I understand what you're saying, though I don't think this is anything like my attack on you in Normal 4. This is an example of alignment: null post (Yamato). So what if your attack is nothing like Normal 4. Each game is different. That statement does not make you town in any way, shape or form. On February 07 2013 04:36 yamato77 wrote: Furthermore, note that if you don't think anyone could get a read on him at this point, I haven't exactly given my certain read on him either. My references to him have been that I think he's overall scummy, but there are things that make me doubt it, and that I want MORE from him to get a better read. I think this was just a misunderstanding. You thought I had a town read I didn't. Fair enough. Note “He’s” refers to phagga and is overall scummy. Noted 2hrs prior the below: On February 07 2013 01:59 yamato77 wrote: Phagga …There are some things that make me doubt his scumminess This does not read as the above: I think he is scummy, but some things make me doubt it. Why the change within 2hrs 30? Perhaps the read of Phagga below will expound on the change in read. On February 07 2013 04:46 yamato77 wrote: While this is, indeed, similar language to Mocsta and my mafia tell on him, the fact that he points out things about Mocsta in general so far makes me think him more town. Why would one mafia player pick at his mate this early in the game? It's a weak tell, like I've said, but it is one nonetheless. This is indeed weak, at least you admit it. How about this: Why would one town player pick at another town player early this game? How about this: Why would a mafia player pick at a town player early this game? Lazy heuristics again, you treat one example to suit your agenda, and do not consider any other options. On February 07 2013 04:46 yamato77 wrote: He reached the same conclusion I did about Prplhz, something I find encouraging for his town alignment. Perhaps this is a little foolhardy, to think someone town for thinking like me, but giving out a quick town read like that is also a towntell to me in general. Check this out (before Phagga posted liking Prplhz) On February 06 2013 23:29 Mocsta wrote: Hi Palomar. Can u please expand on why? I recognise both alignmnets can break up fights. But I thought the way prplhz went about it was fairly constructive. I.e. I didn't get a scum vibe from it. So why is when Phagga does it, you get a town read. When I do the same thing, its not. Your point is moot; and is part of the contradictions Sl00sh noted about you. On February 07 2013 04:46 yamato77 wrote: He calls out Palmar, and gives an accurate analysis of what he's done so far. While I know Palmar can, and will, do this as either mafia or town, the fact that he bothers to notice and point it out is somewhat encouraging. Again, I could be wrong about this as people agreeing with my first impressions aren't always town, but it's enough for me to doubt him being mafia, which is what I've said about him so far. Happy now? Do I need to point out the above post? I am asking Palmar to dictate why he made that choice. I take the same action as Phagga (and before him), yet he is town, I am not. ============================== TL;DR Your scum cases are full of lazy heuristics. Your town tells are full of double standards. You points lack conviction, and cant even be read as confirmation biased. Town has no reason to be sitting on the fence his openly; especially after receiving pressure. Incorporating all these points is clear scum motive to me. ##Vote: Yamato77 | ||
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On February 07 2013 10:58 yamato77 wrote: So your scumreads are three of the four people who think you might be mafia? Why do people think you're town again? Who do i think might be mafia. See the post above this one. *hint* ##Vote: Yamato77 | ||
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On February 07 2013 11:08 Djodref wrote: Regarding Mocsta I'm also very suspicious of Mocsta. I didn't expect him at all to decline my invitation to join my random lynch on Oats because I was expecting him to have a scum read on Oats. Let's look at these quotes here (they are from before my invitation and him giving a town read on Oats). I really thought that Mocsta had a scum read on Oats from these posts (and other) but then WTF ? I was honestly very surprised. And here is one more post from Mocsta after this one. Seriously, what is the need to antagonize your town reads with this force ? I think Mocsta was painting Oats as scum and didn't want to take the responsibility to led the lynch. Maybe he saw an opportunity when I've pushed my random lynch and declined my invitation. I think he is deliberately antagonizing Oats to shit up the thread and make the game unreadable. So, yeah, I don't like Palmar and Mocsta so far. This post made me laugh out loud. The rational is as weak as Yamato. You expected me to join you on a non-committal opportunity to lynch Oats? Is it not scum who would grasp at this opportunity? That you want to interpret everything this way is disconcerting. You point out posts where Im saying Oats play is indicative of his scum meta; and so what? It is indicative . what I said is a fact/statement. Im not calling him scum, I was responding to his pressure on me. Rather, it was Oats who was calling me scum. Do i actually need to reference the quotes? The game is only 10 pages long, its an easy read to find out. Why dont you read through LIX and show me how Oats post structure as scum is NOT mimicking his structure this game Djodref. I dont even get your post on me being antagonistic? Im trying to walk away from everything. If you think I am the one leading this antagonistic exchange If you think the actions of one the two only present participants at the start of the game are top two scummy; I think you need to re-read the thread Djo. | ||
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On February 07 2013 11:17 yamato77 wrote: Djo, what do you make of Mocsta's case on me up there? I have a hard time thinking it came from scum but he quite clearly misunderstands quite a lot of stuff. Like what? are you suggesting the heuristics are NOT lazy? Are you suggesting that you have not grasped at straws to make conclusions? Are you suggesting your town tells on Phagga still do not apply to me? | ||
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On February 07 2013 11:27 Djodref wrote: Yes, I expected you to join my random lynch. I didn't understand why not at that time and I don't understand it more when I read the thread again. So I'm suspicious of you. What is the point of saying that he is mimicking his scum post structure in this game if you don't think he is scum then ? What is the point of keeping shitting up the thread with him (not saying that you are the only responsible for it) when you have pegged him as town ? Why not take a break and wait for other players to post ? Where did you see that I had Oats as scum ? Well i already spelt it out, RNG is a non-commital lynch. Im not interested in it full stop. Regardless of the proposee. I also made this clear you, when I suggested you were my target from my RNG simulation. At the start of Oats/Mocsta feud, I labelled him a as scummy-ish town player.The point of the post structure comment to inform him, I happen to interpret that structure scummy. I dont see a problem with that. It was not mentioned in a malicious way, and if you think it is, then you are obviously too sensitive when it suits your agenda; as comments he made were much more direct yet you dont take issue with it. I didnt want to keep shitting the thread. I offered to stop when VE stepped in. I offered to stop when it kept going and I could see it being pointless. I offered to stop when others started saying again it was shittign up the thread. Each and everytime he threw it back in my face; and at points even called me scum. Of course I am goign to stand up for myself. Dont give me this shit about taking a break; I did, and as soon as people join into the thread, look at the first thing Oats "DEMANDS" of them. Feedback on the feud, hes the one who cant move on. Your last comment is a misinterpretation: What I wrote was reference to Mocsta/Palmar being scum (one of the two active participants = me out of mocsta/oats) | ||
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On February 07 2013 11:22 slOosh wrote: Mocsta, I think the stem of this yamato confusion (and it's something I took a while to pinpoint), is that he views you as scum which in turn influenced his other reads. It can seem hypocritical but really it's just making really strong assumptions. I do think there was clear effort made to understand where I was coming from and that he isn't the best lynch for today. The point you raise is worth discussing, and if Yamato case read with conviction, I would completely agree with you. Herein lies the problem Yamato points for both Phagga and myself do not have conviction. They read lazy and the outcome changes and evolves as pressure is mounted. Insufficient reasoning is given for the change in outcome. Are you honestly telling me, the points yamato made of me, read as if he is truly convinced, and udnertaking extreme confirmation bias? That is the play Yamato is known for, and in my opinion, is not exhibited here. Rather, it is wishy-washy in the middle stances, that he can adapt to either side of town/scum as required. Yamato has not even addressed the points I raised; instead shoeing it off as "I misinterpret him". Look at the difference, I said he is misinterpreting me, I provided rational. Where is his for the counter? My vote is remaining; | ||
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On February 07 2013 11:57 Djodref wrote: What if I had picked up yamato ? Would you refuse to join me then ? The fact that I picked Oats randomly only engages me, and if you join my lynch or not engages you. It's only non-committal for me, and I wouldn't even say it's fully non-committal. And it appeared that you had Oats as scum, even if you deny having him as scum, so I really suspect you to have wanted to paint him in red. Anyway, you don't tell people what makes their post scummy, you don't tell them what is a scum tell for you. Town players doesn't do this, they push scum to make the mistake that is going to allow them to nail them. So either you wanted to paint Oats in red (without joining his lynch), either you were trying to coach him the hard way. I don't see the town motivation for doing any of this. Yes I would refuse to join you on RNG yamato, (1) Because I wouldnt join you in a RNG at any point and on any one. and (2) Yamato hadnt entered the game yet. Im not voting for someone I cant get a read on. Right, you seem to be the only person saying I had Oats as scum (aside from Oats). I have said I was defending myself, and guess what, other people commenting on the situation have also said I was defending myself and right to call him out. Your points are weak, and Im starting to think your intentionally shitting up the thread. You are constantly pussy footing about my "reaction to RNG"; why dont you just be a man and make your case. At least Yamato had the stones to attempt a case. & What a load of crap about keeping scum tells to yourself. The whole point of making a case is identifying scum tells and providing reasoning behind the motive to why it is a tell. This comment that we keep scum tells to ourselves has to be the stupidest comment I have read this entire game. Why are you spewing so much bullshit Djo? Are you trying to bury that Jay and me have issues with JX and his sole post? Are you trying to bury my case against Yamato? Perhaps your just trying to bury something else I have not noticed yet... either way, your contributions are still lacking. | ||
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Yamato thinks I "seriously misinterpreted" his actions in my case. Do you agree with him? | ||
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On February 07 2013 12:38 Djodref wrote: Okay, let me explain to you clearly once again, because either you don't understand the case I'm trying to convey, either you are doing this on purpose. Let's imagine that you are town and Oats is scum. You should never tell him, "oh, by the way, you are mimicking your scum post structure" if you don't attack him for this. What if Oats is scum ? He can correct himself without being really called for it. So either your early post concerning Oats were attacks against him that you don't want to take the responsibility for (what I'm thinking and that would be coming from scum Mocsta), either it was some way for you to start a flame war with Oats and make the thread unreadable (also coming from scum Mocsta) or either it is a very poor way of playing town. And I'm not trying to divert anything from anything, my main concerns right now are Palmar and you. Djodref, lets look at the situation holistically. Oats town, Mocsta scum: This is the situation in Newbie 35; and is the meta argument both Oats and Yamato presented. This has been refuted by myself already, in addition to several others who (I assume) are not aware of my meta. It is clear my tone in addressing Oats is not with the intention to flame. This is refuted. Oats scum, Mocsta town This is the situation in Mafia LIX; and I made meta comments to Oats regarding this game. I dont think this scenario applies either. Oats and I minimal had banter in LIX, but it did not manifest itself the way it is this game at all. Oats was a lot more reserved as scum in LIX and at one point ignored my meta case on him all together. Hes not ignoring anything this game. I think this is refuted. Oats scum, Mocsta scum I dont see this as viable. Yes bussing is a viable strategy; but I think the main reason Oats and I continued the feud is because nobody else interjected [enough]. Whether this is due to observers or timezone difference, who knows. It doesnt matter; if anyone thinks me and Oats simulated that "feud" we should get a mafia 2013 award. I think this is refuted. The fact is, me n oats have personal differences in how we approach life in general. Whatever game we are in, we will be polar opposites, and lead to this type of situation. I tried to be the bigger man and walk away, but I was lured in each time. Thats my fault and I do take responsibility for it. But if you think I was not being antagonised to respond, I think your intentionally misreading the thread status quo. Oats town, Mocsta town When you are town, you have nothing to lose and can push your tunneled bias without being intimidated. Sounds pretty much like what Oats and myself did. Oats doesnt like my approach to the game; as I said before, he is more of a loner type player. Guess what, I dont like Oats approach & I actually do believe in fostering a collaborative environment - even though I admit my actions have unfortunately not aided in this occurring. I think holisitically this is the most likely scenario of Oats and myself. The feud between us is due to personal differences, and both of us need to make more of an effort to accept that and not react so hastily. =============== Djo, I think that you have rallied on about these perceptions now for several posts. I am concerned because I think they have been addressed either directly to you (or others). I think you are intentionally over-inflating matters, to keep me in the limelight. Palmer is an easy choice to advocate for lynch; he has 2 or 3 posts which are completely trollish in nature. Your choice on me is easy as well; the feud between oats/myself created a lot of heat, especially as most players chose to talk about it to me, and not oats. The points you raise on me,conveniently have all been raised by others first; you are essentially summarising and producing no new content. You are quickly elevating up my scum list and I am giving serious thought to swap my vote. I want to see your opinions on something different in the thread, than what others have said. =============== @Djodref Considering JX and you have a commonality ( a vote interest on me) What do you make of JX case on me. Do you agree with it? Do you think this is the substantial contribution of a town player? If so, i would like to know what I am missing that you see clearly. | ||
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On February 07 2013 13:06 Djodref wrote: In this game, random lynching would have around 31% chance to hit mafia on day 1 ! From my point ow view, it is a good as one chance over three. It's far better than our expected chance to lynch mafia. That's why I thought that his game was good to experiment with random lynching. It turns out that I had bad luck with my randomization with Oats. The goal was to generate discussion, but it also kinda failed >.< Djodref, I already explained. I did a randomization as well. and it listed you for lynch. Why can I not follow through with that? Why cant my RNG on you, be a valid medium for discussion. The day you tell me that you are willing to lynch yourself UNCONTESTED if your name pops up on the RNG, is the day I will actually give it real thought as a mechanism to fight scum. | ||
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On February 07 2013 13:05 Mocsta wrote: @Djodref Considering JX and you have a commonality ( a vote interest on me) What do you make of JX case on me. Do you agree with it? Do you think this is the substantial contribution of a town player? If so, i would like to know what I am missing that you see clearly. | ||
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On February 07 2013 13:07 jaybrundage wrote: I actually think that Djo brings up a decent point about Mocsta tho. Mocsta was calling out Oats for being scummy and doing scummy things. But then he comes around and calls him townie and is then after convinced that Oats is townie. I think its very possible from the beginning that he knew that Oats was townie. He tried to sling some shit on him and paint him as red. But when he saw that he wasn't gonna win he backed down from Oats knowing that he was town and gave him a townie read. Jay, this is the last I am going to speak on the matter I already went through the town/scum oats/mocsta options here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=21#418 The crux is; me/oats butt heads regardless of alignment & we both take each others comments some-what personally. i.e. us feuding is NOT alignment indicative. HOW we feud IS alignment indicative. Even Oats acknowleges this On February 07 2013 13:07 Oatsmaster wrote: Well Mocsta is playing DIFFERENTLY than in XXXV, so Im not saying that he isnt scum, Im saying that that is not the reason that he is scum if he actually is scum. ============== If you want a geneal recap When I stopped trolling and posted genuine thoughts This is me: On February 06 2013 12:04 Mocsta wrote: TL;DR I dont think this game is as simple as "lynch the scummiest person". We know from every single game played, there is usually a mislynch. This game is even harder, as without any blue roles to aid in "confirming townies" greater effort must be put in to avoid continuation mislynches - scum hunting must always take precedence. As such, Oats, I think you are missing the point of this game; and should re-read my post that I linked above. This is Oats response On February 06 2013 12:10 Oatsmaster wrote: What are you even saying? BLABLABLA lets lynch the scummiest person. Seriously thats all you are saying. .... I never said Oats flamed me; but the above is NOT a comment I am going to walk away from. I already said, perhaps my retort "to replace" crossed the line of acceptability, but, I have seen much worse reactions to stubbornness in forum-mafia. I really think this feud is being over-inflated. The question, by over-sensitive townies, or scum looking to create havok. My tip is #2; the townies in this game have enough experience under the belt to recognise when two town players butt heads with stubbornness. Which leaves scum creating havok. on why this topic is still even being discussed IIRC its Djo who is still pushing this agenda; ================ @All Do you actually find genuine town motivations for Djo constantly pushing this feud between Oats and myself back into the limelight? | ||
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On February 07 2013 13:23 Djodref wrote: The problem I have with you is not only the fact that you were flaming with Oats, defending yourself or whatever. I don't see any reason for a town player to make these kind of comments if you don't honestly believe Oats is scum. I want to tell you that you didn't address my point at all, that is you either gave advice to Oats to not looking scummy, either you painted him in read, and you don't explain your motivation for doing this. Seriously, am I the only one who was surprised when Mocsta had a town read on Oats after all this ? Are you saying all town players have to love each other? As I keep saying, ppl like me and Oats are going to prodding at each other every game regardless of alignment. We simply do not like each other, and we have not even met. Im having trouble stomaching why you can not accept that; it actually really as intentionally misconstruing the feud. As for being surprised I called Oats town; i think your quote below from me is indicative of what I thought. He was scum or bad town. When i was later asked to give a read, I considered everything and siad leaning town; a bad town player is town none-the-less. You have actually proven the basis of my read/decision and done the leg work for me. Thank you Djo. On February 06 2013 13:39 Mocsta wrote: A town player does it, because this is a challenging game, and we need to avoid mislynches. So far, your play is about reacting to minute details in early-game posts trying to promote discussion. You are trying to shit all over them, without providing additional avenues for discourse. There is nothing solid in your play so far. This leads me to think: (1) You are bad townie / scummy townie - don't know any better (2) You are bored - trying to troll (3) You are scum - trying to derail You don't typically try to troll; so its (1) or (3). The win-con for town is to lynch all (3); and I already suggested prior we need to improve post quality to reduce the number of (1)s. Hence, either way, your current behaviour is a problem for town. | ||
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On February 07 2013 13:23 Djodref wrote: Regarding JieXian, his case his utter-bullshit, but he wants to lynch you and he is usually a lynch-bait. So I'm not going to worry about him unless he shows no interest in finding scum later on like last game. Riddle me this. If JX is lynch-bait for an "utter-bullshit case"; then why are you advocating Palmar again? Why are you not giving him a chance to find scum "later" Why are you being inconsistent; and sticking up for a 1 post lurker with bullshit case, vs 3 post troll with unfulfilled promise(s) | ||
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On February 07 2013 13:25 jaybrundage wrote: @Mocsta if you could rate your scum play 1-10 what would you rate it. For newbies (the only time I was scum) I think 7 or 8. I cracked under the pressure of constantly keeping up to date with the thread, and made a really *really* dumb case. Thats the essence of how I got lynched. For this league, I would think 5 or 6. As scum, I will never lurk; I cant do it. I get too bored. Some of the vets here seem to pick up on some wild stuff that turns out to be right, so I assume with my activity I would get caught, hence the drop to 5 or 6. ===== Note, I dont try to be leader in the big league. Theres too many vets, and they dont give a shit on opinions of low-exp guys. Mafia LIX the only time I felt like I had thread prescence was the cycle when i was masoned with the mayor. Newbies is different, the playing field is relatively equal and it ;presents a real chance to impose leadership and direction. | ||
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On February 07 2013 13:51 jaybrundage wrote: @Mocsta Everyone assumes that scum is shitty so they over simplify things. In my last scum game me and Xatalos headbutted all day against each other with seemingly all the conviction in the world. I disagree with this. It could easily be argued that you were trying to flame. Telling someone LOL NUB UNINSTALL to paraphase is pretty flamy if you ask me. Also you voted for yamato but now it seems your attention has shifted to Djo now whos is your top scum read. Also what about you top town read. Fair questions. I think you are forgetting that you and Xatalos have significantly more experience than Oats and I. But yes, i can see why that opinion would be fresh in your mind. I already said that one comment perhaps crossed the line; and as I also said, I have seen much worse commentary from others (in other games).. if it was that serious, I am sure the mods would have warned me, so I think ppl are really over-inflating it. Fact is, he was being stubborn and frustrated me enough to make a comment like that. It happens, I acknowledged it, move on. ============== My top scum read is still yamato, hence the vote remains: I dont like he is avoiding commenting on my case; BUT, I will admit, as town I have done the same action to ppl making a scum case on me. Marv pulled me into line on that in the obs QT. As for Djo, I think he is the instigator of keeping the oats/mocsta feud alive. Even oats said the behaviour isnt indicative of my known scum meta; and he was the guy directly involved. P.S. I have tried fueding with scum partner before (newbie XXXV me n spaghetticus had some (scum qt planned) banter at each other; went VERy different to that of me n oats this game. ============== As for top town read: Personally I got a good vibe from Sl00sh; Breaking the feud is not alignment indicative (as easy town cred points).. BUT, the way he went about it, re-directed discussion and pursued yamato for conversation was something I thought easily explained by town motives. If you contrast with Phagga, he tried to interject, but then commented on the situation (the replace comment) adding further fuel to the fire, by keeping the conversation going. This is null to me, perhaps as town he felt strong enough to ask about it; at the same time, he didnt actually stop the feud, he just temporarily interjected. | ||
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On February 07 2013 14:06 Djodref wrote: ahhh, ok, I see what you mean now. No, I did the math while writing the post. I didn't want to discuss about Oats when he prompted me for it because I didn't want to lynch him anymore at that point but I didn't want to admit that my random pick was bad yet. OK, so the RNG contributions are useless. I remove that from your filter, and what am I left with? (1) Over-inflating commentary between me n oats (2) Pushing for Palmar; with a one-track mind. (3) Defending JX by way of lynch-bait. Also known as sweet fuck all. ================ (2) You mention hero mini. What about LVIII, regardless of actions he was still town. I am not sticking up for him, hes leaning scum to me for the lack of contributions. My point is, I have others I think are probably scum; Is not the intention to lynch the person you think has the HIGHEST chance to flip red? (3) Nothing you said about JX convinces me what he has contributed can be attributed to town motive. I acknowledge, he is lynch-bait when town, but I havent seen him be so blatant scummy as a first post in any of his games yet either. If you can explain town motives for his post (emphasis on NO plural), I am all ears. | ||
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On February 07 2013 14:39 Djodref wrote: (1) -You have failed to properly address my point against you multiple time, you answers are deliberately missing the fact that your attacks against Oats were unjustified from a town point of view. You attack someone if you think he is scum, not to have a feud because you have different ways of playing the game nor giving hints on his scum meta. I learnt my lesson yesterday and am walking away from this as of now. I have answered the question(s) at hand several times to multiple parties; its simple, you do not like my answers. However you are making zero effort to manifest your question with a different approach. i.e. You keep asking the same question, I keep giving the same answer. Either:
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I ended up beefing up my palmar read due to him responding to VE pressure. This acknowledges he IS reading the thread and is making an active choice to troll like this. I have to re read yamato filter before deciding if i want to swap votes though. | ||
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On February 07 2013 17:58 VisceraEyes wrote: As I said earlier, I'm very very interested in clearing out the trash, being players who signed up and aren't playing. Right now that list is: Palmar prplhz Snarfs JX There's no way in hell they're all scum. Here's what I want to do. I think everyone should choose one name off that list that they believe is the most realistic lynch candidate based on what they perceive to be town sentiment. Then I want them to explain why they aren't voting for that person, and explain in detail why their lynch candidate is better. OK, i re-read the game, and changed my opinions on quite a few things. Thoughts Who I am not voting: Snarfs Yes the vote on VE is weird; but he seems to have some sort of bone to pick with VE in general (if you include the pre-game banter). Yes he sits in the middle, but I cant tell yet whether its an analytical guy trying to get all the facts; or a scum trying not to take a position. That he was willing to vote someone he knows, and keen to observe two people he doesnt know, makes me lean towards analytical guy. I need more, so hes null for me. JieXian I still have some serious problems with his sole contribution. Also, that he hasnt entered the game at all since that post, and he is the same timezone as me is a bit of a concern. However, his case on me, was entered quite late @ night (like 1/2am). He is leaning scum for me, but I dont know how comfortable I am recommending a lynch with only one post, regardless of how shithouse it is. =================== Between Palmar and prplhz I was a bit stuck. i dont like either, but because Palmar voted prplhz i am hesitant to think they are both scum, so its one or the other. (im ruling out bus, because its a fuckn weird way to bus). My main gripes with Palmar: -lack of thread input - acknowledges VE pressure, by responding to that (and nothing else) As said before, this shows he is keeping up to date with the thread, and is choosing not to interact with us. That is a problem. My gripes with prplhz (Post 1) On February 06 2013 21:50 prplhz wrote: Oatsmaster, Mocsta: Stop focusing on each other. Just by your activity neither of you are up for lynch right now so stop focusing on each other. Whatever useful you could be doing by arguing with each other you've done it by now so quit it and stop messing the thread up. It is bloating the thread and for hardly any reason. Take a deep breath and a step back and focus on something else, if you want better reads on each other then just reread your discussion, I'm sure there's something you missed.. Here he breaks up the fight which is NOT alignment indicative. The problem is how he does it. He focuses on activity as a reason to stop the fight. Hes not addressing what me and Oats are having issues about (unlike others who also tried to break the fight). In fact, his reasoning is related to image. Your activity (image) is sufficient to not lynch you today. Isn't it scum who are constantly worried about image when it comes to lynches? It is also weird, he says "im sure theres something you missed" as if he thinks we are both town. He hasnt justified we are both town in any way, shape or form; so its as if, he knows we are town (Post 2) He defends oats (by request of Djo) as a town read; by virtue of "fervor and insight". Odd, fervor agreed. insight, I dont think anyone here has said oats has tried to input insight into this game; its as if he got confused between me and oats; which indicates lack of care when reading. The other problem is as already pointed out, he lashes out the town read, but where is the scum read? (Post 3) Banter with palmar after the vote. waste of a post, but could be made from any alignment. (Post 4) So after all the happenings in the thread with me/oats, djo/RNG etc, palmar/vote (prplhz); prplhz last contribution is in line with sl0osh questioning of yamato. On February 07 2013 04:39 prplhz wrote: Dude, just tell him now. You don't want slOosh and his case on your back today because you're going to end up getting lynched. The case is pretty decent and I'd say you stand a good chance of getting lynched today, or at the very least you're going to attract a lot of attention to yourself which is not something we generally want out of a townie on day 1. So just say what you found in phagga's filter that makes you see him as town in spite of how he has done things that put you on to your main scum read. Your excuse that you wont say because "mafia will just talk about it" doesn't hold. Your read is absolutely void unless you can explain it to other people in this thread so get going please. I had to read this a few times, because at first, when I was in the heat of the moment I thought it was a fair question to yamato. But the more I read it, the more I dont like it. (a)Why is he jumping in to white knight sl0Osh? prplhz still hasnt given a scum read; and has only given a town read on oats. This is an odd post to choose to contribute with. (b) Why is he trying to threaten/bully Yamato into giving this information out (by saying.. hey you dont want sl0oish on ya case). He could have just said the last line "read is void, unless you can explain it" (c) The most off putting is "which is not something we generally want out of a townie". This is nit picking into English language, but the phrasing is not from a 1st person perspective. Its actually referencing townie as a separate object. In this case, as scum; town is a separate object. I think if town to town were interacting it would read "generally town do not want this to happen day 1".. So yes, based on the above, prplhz has made a conscious effort to not divulge scum reads; has not provided any insight; he reasons for stopping the fight were based on reasonings aligned with image; and has not been present in the thread since. ##Vote: prplhz | ||
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On February 07 2013 18:47 JieXian wrote: Thing is, they are neither Hapa nor DP. Going to take a nap and catch up later. Whoah WTF So the case is real now is it? | ||
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On February 07 2013 18:56 phagga wrote: sniped by JX, but doesn't really change anything for my vote for now. Sorry, why would that exchange from JX make you even consider changing your vote? If anything, its adding to his scumminess vibe? <Lurks all day> <Comes in, takes a pop shot> <Leaves> WTF is that. | ||
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Phagga since u r online. What do u make of my points against prplhz? | ||
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I am keen to hear your thoughts | ||
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On February 07 2013 21:41 Oatsmaster wrote: We are lynching people because they are LURKING. Understand prp? What makes it worse is that he should know that lurking DOES NOT help town and thus, if he is town, he is playing against his wincon. Oats, you advocating Palmar lynch. Can I have your thoughts on Prplhz/JX please. | ||
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On February 07 2013 21:56 yamato77 wrote: Can anyone come up with a good reason to not lynch JX? I cant. Between him and prplhz I will vote for whoever is leading. Im surprised prplhz felt the need to consult with sl0osh before addressing the points I raised against him. The only town point I can think for prplhz is that I havent seen someone roll scum two games in a row. | ||
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On February 07 2013 11:31 jaybrundage wrote: Palmar is a very strong town player. I have played a decent number of games with him. If he is town scum will want to try to kill him asap. But in this set up they can't unless they lead a mislynch on him. Whether it be via a normal day mislynch or a mislynch in a nomination day. I actually haven't played with scum palmar So maybe I don't really consider the possibility of him being scum. But I can judge palmar by his results if he doesnt lead the town to some good scum lynches ill be willing to lynch him. But given who he is I give him more leeway then I would others. @Jay, am I reading this correctly. You would consider voting "prplhz" to ascertain whether Palmar is looking to flip scum? | ||
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On February 07 2013 22:32 prplhz wrote: Something rubs me the wrong way about jaybrundage and his case on Djodref. No one else really reacted strongly to Djodref's silly random vote because everybody knew what it was: some sort of scheme to draw out scum. Pretty rediculous but at least he doing something. jaybrundage also acknowledges this himself here but he still uses it as a reason to vote Djodref. This gives him a place to put his vote and even though he's since gradually recanted this (like here), he hasn't unvoted. It seems like he is trying to keep the Djodref door open while not pushing it and not wanting to actually push anything else. It doesn't seem like a townie thinking "fuck yea, i nailed this cracker and it's so obvious! now i just have to get everybody else to listen to me!", more like "cool, i can just put my vote on him and then chill". How do you guys feel about jaybrundage? I have to disagree. I actually thought Jay identified the same lack of conviction I felt with Djo. I took the approach: Djo needs to consider himself if he wants to be serious about RNG - (Djo ignored this pressure.) Jay pressured along the same lines, but more detailed - The outcome: Djo caved in and admitted he wasnt trying to follow through with it as he felt Oats was town. I think this was a more than valid lead to follow. | ||
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On February 07 2013 22:39 prplhz wrote: But if it was a pressure vote then why didn't jaybrundage react in any way when the pressure "succeeded"? jaybrundage just said "maybe djo is just fucking around" and that's all he's said and done about it since his big case. I don't like that. If you look @ Jay last post; its before Djo "conceded" That might explain the lack of a follow up response? | ||
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On February 07 2013 22:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah JX seems to be trolling, However, WHICH SCUMMY LURKER DO WE LYNCH? Im not down with prp lynch by the way, I dont think he is scum. Im not going to ask for why you think prplhz is not scum; as I would still prefer if *he* addresses my points first. Now, scummy lurker, I assume we talking about palmar or JX. Do you include Snarfs in this spectrum? If just Palmar/JX for you.. JX is the common link and I could swing his way. Hes 50/50 (Shared with prplhz) | ||
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===================== Overall, Im happy to consolidate on JX. If he is town, hes going to be useless for this game, and scum will never put him up for nomination mechanic. If scum, obviously a good thing. Seems like win-win to me ##unvote ##Vote: JieXian | ||
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On February 07 2013 23:13 prplhz wrote: I agree with Oatsmaster that JieXian doesn't look scum so I don't want to vote for him. He looks like a guy who isn't around and his activity so far doesn't spell out scum to me. @Mocsta Could you please link the post you're talking about instead of saying "Yea, but what about that jaybrundage post, huh?" because I literally haven't a clue what you're talking about. I'm also going to have a really hard time arguing with someone who says that he doesn't think someone else is scum because they were scum last game. That's unsound in all ways imaginable. JimiHendrix, are you reading the thread? Oats consolidated on JX already. I dunno what jay post your talking about, I assume you referencing his last post? If so, its not hard to go through a filter to the end, but to save you the trouble (1) Last pressure on Djo @ 13:51 + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 13:51 jaybrundage wrote: @Djo Your missing what i mean althought i may have mis-stated it. I still don't think it was a random lynch. I think you arbitrary decided to use some bullshit reason to make it random. That you would select his post count to make it "random" when you already math'd it out. I think your assertion that it was random is bullshit. Also refering to this post. (2) Jay Last post @ 13:55 + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 13:55 jaybrundage wrote: (3) Djo admits RNG was not a good idea but had to follow through regardless @ 14:06 + Show Spoiler + [QUOTE]On February 07 2013 14:06 Djodref wrote: ahhh, ok, I see what you mean now. No, I did the math while writing the post. I didn't want to discuss about Oats when he prompted me for it because I didn't want to lynch him anymore at that point but I didn't want to admit that my random pick was bad yet. And the two scum rolls in a row, was a joke... im saying I dont have any town read on you what so ever. Perhaps if you entered discourse and tackled my points, my read would sway but for the time being its "probably scum" | ||
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On February 08 2013 00:12 prplhz wrote: Snarfs is talking about this game. Well now that we know you are alive and up to date again. Is there a particular reason you are making these 'contributions', but then avoid discourse with what I have raised to you? Let me summarise for you what I would like discourse over. @prplhz (1) I want to know why JX isnt scummy to you. Your a vet, please share the insight im missing here. (2) I want to know why you are buddying up so hard with Sl0osh (3) I want to know why you tried to intimidate Yamato to giving out his town tells on Phagga; there were many methods to approach the situation, I would like to know why you favoured this particular solution to the problem at hand. (4) You mentioned: Oats shows "fervor and insight". Please expound on this "insight" you refer to. | ||
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On February 08 2013 00:33 prplhz wrote: I'm not buddying up with anybody, I'm just not the kind of guy who asks people to leave the game because they're horrible at it. I think that's rude and worse than that; it's counterproductive. I wanted to know the answer from yamato77 just as much as slOosh and I didn't want to give him time to think and I wanted to put him under a lot of pressure so that's exactly what I did. Oatsmaster showed some insight in the game in posts like this and this, both made me think about implications of scum not having nighitkills and shows that he put some thought into this game. Thanks for continuing the conversation. I noticed you avoided discussing JX, any particular reason? I can accept the rational with Yamato, that was my impression too (when I first read it). My buddying comment was relating to this: On February 07 2013 21:30 prplhz wrote: Only bad thing about that is that we have to lynch someone else and this game isn't making much sense to me. I think I need to talk to slOosh. Lastly, whether you realise it or not (i bet you do)... your first sentence is completely ad-hominem. Dont go acting like your shit doesnt stink; mafia is a game that can get heated, and many games have had people say much worse things than the banter between oats and myself. If you want a recent example, why dont you look @ SuckMyDeck in the MTG Mini. | ||
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On February 08 2013 00:36 yamato77 wrote: I'm pretty confident in these four as mafia after reading this page: Snarfs Lynch JX today, see which of them pop up tomorrow, if any, and go from there. Should be easy to lynch down this list and win. Everyone else has given me good reason to think them town, either through meta, activity, or simply giving a shit about what is going on today. Snarf's read in VE is an excuse to not comment on anything else except giving a really silly defense of Palmar when Palmar has only a couple votes at most. Yeah, I was null on Snarfs before, not so sure anymore after reading the game he talked about. I need to hear out this case. So far from "Wheel of Fortune" I am not seeing the meta-read;but Snarfs knows him better than I do, so will give it a non-biased read. ======== If I counted correctly, we have 4 votes on JX | ||
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On February 08 2013 00:49 yamato77 wrote: Mocsta, you've been arguing with people this whole game on various tangents. Let me know, concisely, why you think prpl is mafia. I don't think he is and I'll be glad to show why, but first I want you to explain it in short form, just the outline reasons. On my matrix, prplhz is leaning scum. In short:
These comments are mainly from: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=23#459 at the bottom. I dont think the above makes him probably scum, but i think some of the characteristics are enough to take him out of null territory into leaning scum. I am keen to hear your insight into this though. Please share. | ||
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On February 08 2013 00:54 prplhz wrote: I didn't want to talk a lot about JieXian because I wanted to see if he showed up on his own. He has posted around this time (actually a couple hours later) before in this game so I thought I'd not comment on him to see if he showed up again. If he didn't then I would be pretty sure that he was actually just not here which doesn't say much about his alignment. Of course this gamble doesn't work if I talk about it in the thread. Anyway, now that he's here he needs to start fending for himself since he apparently has four votes on him. I can understand that reasoning too. I didnt get to see much of you in Mafia LIX. => I know nothing of you. Are you an active engager, or active listener? or <insert other> | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:11 yamato77 wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344&user=126438 This is prplhz's filter from LIX where he was mafia, lynched D1. While this is only somewhat useful on its own, what is important to note is how he was caught that game, which was through analysis of his meta. So, at the very least, we can assume that some of his posting this game is similar to how he usually plays mafia, and especially so at the beginning of the game. So what characteristics do we use to define that filter? Trollish, disconnected, and overall useless to town. Devoid of reads, or any real interaction. Yes, at some point he realized he was dead and did nothing, but that wasn't the whole day. At least some part of that filter is indicative of his meta, and he hasn't matched it at all this game. This is his first post this game. What is he doing here? Caring about town, and actually giving out reads. Town reads, but reads nonetheless, and some insight into how he got them. This is a stark difference from the trolly attitude he got caught with in LIX. This post, he keeps with his pro-town theme and gives two more reads. He says I could be lynched, that he agrees with Sloosh's case. Again, he is thinking about who he wants to lynch, why he wants to lynch them, and being townie about it. The dude is green. Im actually not sure what to do here. I dont want to take the priority off JX, so its prob not worth going into detail with this. Look thanks for sharing your POV. Its good to know we talking about the same two points (feud interjection and yamato intimidation for town tell). - I dont agree fully with your assessment BUT. Either way, I dont see value taking this any further. prplhz is not up for lynch tonight. JX is. | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:12 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, if you say that prp has posted enough to push an agenda, what is that agenda? i said he has posted enough he *could* have pushed an agenda. | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Thats like everyone in the game except palmer. What. Are you going to kick start the 1 line posts to me again. I told you before, shit questions = shit answers. Ask a question asking directly what you want an answer to, and I will oblige. | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:35 yamato77 wrote: Oats, I know you think Snarf is mafia and all, and I agree on a certain level, but is he really a better lynch than JX today? I have a different problem. I listed before I thought either prplhz or palmar was mafia, as I doubt palmar vote on prplhz is a bus. I checked the Mafia LIX game, and yes I concede the posts are radically different. I still have issues with some of his play this game (specifically lack of information sharing) butwilling to put prplhz as null for now What im getting at is; if prplhz is null/town; and palmar is pushing his vote; perhaps palmar should be the candidate... thoughts? i.e. if palmar is of the value everyone is proposing, he should have got prplhz was town via meta like all you guys... that he didnt, is perhaps a concern? | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I heard somewhere that he is this amazing entity that has the propensity to catch scum lurking within the shadows. Let's say JX and Palmar are both town. Both are lurky / useless / kind of the same thing right meow. Who would you rather lose? JX. If Palmar is still being useless as all hell we can deal with him later. But if he's town It would be a huge detriment to lose him. Agreed. but this game doesnt have night kill and with nomination mechanic, we never have to vote him. to me thats better than having bodyguards as mayor; he coudl be the most pro-town motherfucker ever and not have to worry about being lynch. Why isnt he doing this? | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: As far as I see it Oats, JX is equal to Palmar right now. Both have been similarly as useless, just throwing random names out there with little justification. JX seems scummier marginally. Palmar is all lurky and stuff, sure, but if he's town we will KNOW it tomorrow (or tonight). This doesnt make sense to me. What changes tomorow that makes Palmar useful all of a sudden? If your referring to nomination, why are you so sure he will get put up. Its all WIFOM, so im surprised the stance is so firm. | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:43 Djodref wrote: Yeah, that's a concern. That and the fact that he gave no justification for his lynch. Would you like to lynch Palmar with me, Mocsta ? Welcome.. 1am for you too? Fuck it, yes ##Unvote ##Vote: Palmar | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: It's a personal meta read. I don't agree with others when they use them, and I don't expect you to agree with me on the fact. It's a gut feeling, and my gut tends to be correct with reads like this. His interaction with Mocsta left me feeling Oats townier than Mocsta in general. Oats is at least null leaning townzorz for me. Oats is definitely town. As scum he is aggressive but backs down and changes tune when shit hits the fan. Hes not doing that this game.Having re-read that part of the game we were feuding, I can now see i took the interactions more personal than him, but even with my "low blows" he didnt back down. In my matrix I have two confirmed town. me and him. | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: JX, your scumread on Mocsta was pretty fail. Yes I have a gut townread, but it's not the only thing I'm doing today. All I've seen from you is Mocsta scum gogo 2 lines kill this guy. And then trying to fling shit at djo/oats/snarfs to see where it will stick. You are incredibly wish-washy to say the least. Still waiting for snarfs case to decide if he's worthy to live today. he took this approach as scum in normal mini 4 as well (flung shit every where) | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:46 yamato77 wrote: Hold on guys. Why are people switching off JX? I need to know why he's not dying if people want to lynch other people. Answer: On February 08 2013 01:39 Mocsta wrote: I have a different problem. I listed before I thought either prplhz or palmar was mafia, as I doubt palmar vote on prplhz is a bus. I checked the Mafia LIX game, and yes I concede the posts are radically different. I still have issues with some of his play this game (specifically lack of information sharing) butwilling to put prplhz as null for now What im getting at is; if prplhz is null/town; and palmar is pushing his vote; perhaps palmar should be the candidate... thoughts? i.e. if palmar is of the value everyone is proposing, he should have got prplhz was town via meta like all you guys... that he didnt, is perhaps a concern? + On February 08 2013 01:41 Mocsta wrote: Agreed. but this game doesnt have night kill and with nomination mechanic, we never have to vote him. to me thats better than having bodyguards as mayor; he coudl be the most pro-town motherfucker ever and not have to worry about being lynch. Why isnt he doing this? | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:56 yamato77 wrote: If you think JX might be mafia at all, you should not want to lynch Palmar with him. JX should die before we even think about killing Palmar on day 1. Yes, he's a good lynch. No, he's not better than JX. I know thats my confusion. Your meant to lynch the highest chance to flip. Palmar is more based on educated assumption JX is definitely scum now that he has increased his activity. It reminds me of exactly before I nailed him in Normal Mini 4. The question is: if we both knew palmar + JX would flip red; you would lynch palmar right? If so, do you see enough points of doubt in the commentary I gave "against" Palmar? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=29#576 | ||
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On February 08 2013 02:00 JieXian wrote: I have 2 conflicting reasons for why Oats is town. How? I said as scum he is aggressive and then said "hes not doing that this game" CC said "hes more docile = less aggressive" Fail. Try again please. | ||
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On February 08 2013 02:04 Snarfs wrote: THINGS YOU SHOULD BE NOTICING: 1) When he's town he doesn't give a f***. 2) When he's town he MAKES DAMN SURE HE LOOKS TOWN 3) When he's town his reads actually make sense, when he's scum I can't tell why he's doing what he's doing. I can't tell his motives right now. I don't know why he's voting for prplhz. Because Palmar is? But Palmar is his number 1 scum read? It doesn't make sense! Scum scum scum. *Facepalm* Sorry I didnt realise in vet world, finishing with "scum scum scum" was a killing blow to get votes. Look will read this in detail, but so far, I didnt see any quotes from this game. Seems like you did a pure meta read; right now, pretty disappointed I had to wait for this. | ||
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UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT Palmar (3) - Djo, Mocsta, JX JX (2) - phagga, Yamato77 Snarfs (2) - Mr.CC, Oatsmaster prplhz (2) - Palmar, VE Djodref (1) - JayBrundage VE (1) - Snarfs No Vote (2) -sl0osh, prplhz | ||
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On February 08 2013 02:14 JieXian wrote: In other words, you 2 need to realise that Oats isn't a 1 dimensional guy who plays the same way. Why are you still talking about this JX. Your vote is on Palmar; why discuss Oats. | ||
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I think we HAVE to consolidate. From what I can see the choices are Palmar / JX / Snarfs I am concerned about Palmar, BUT I think we need to go for the guaranteed flip. For me thats JX. His filter speaks for itself; I think he is the safest choice. (and his latest posts about oats are just ridiculous) Mr. CC i know you want Snarfs on the table; but do you really think he is a higher chance to flip than JX? ##Unvote ##Vote: JieXian | ||
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On February 08 2013 02:04 Snarfs wrote: THINGS YOU SHOULD BE NOTICING: 1) When he's town he doesn't give a f***. 2) When he's town he MAKES DAMN SURE HE LOOKS TOWN 3) When he's town his reads actually make sense, when he's scum I can't tell why he's doing what he's doing. I can't tell his motives right now. I don't know why he's voting for prplhz. Because Palmar is? But Palmar is his number 1 scum read? It doesn't make sense! Scum scum scum. Snarfs; I read your case in detail. Im going to be blunt here. Before I read your case: My matrix: Snarfs:null, VE: probably town. After I read your case: No change. May I add, using your criteria for town VE, makes me think he is town even more. Whats agitating with your case is that the meta is from March 2012. The game changes, and so do people. (Yes subconscious behaviour probably doesnt.. but that isnt int he crux of your commentary) You're pointing out post structure meta etc and its out of date by one year. I was hoping you were going to post a read from Normal Mini mafia 4 (Meta Feb 2013, he was town) ===================== What are we left with? Either: You are scum, and trying to contribute without contributing OR You are tunneled town, that was so fixated on a concept you couldnt let go. Many in the thread will probably say you're scum; I want to give you a chance as i think something like this is far more likely from tunneled town. Can you please discuss the following: @Snarfs You said before you dont think Palmar should be lynched. However, Palmar has voted prplhz; who many have defended as town due to meta (including you) If you think prplhz is town; do you still support Palmar surviving this lynch? If so, I would like a detailed response on why. | ||
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On February 08 2013 02:25 Snarfs wrote: If you know how someone tries to find scum and you know that that's not what they're doing this game, then it's a combination of meta and gamesense, or whatever you want to call it. This is not VE trying to find scum. If that was the original intent. you did not write it clearly (which is certainly not scum indicative at all) Your synopsis was: THINGS YOU SHOULD BE NOTICING: 1) When he's town he doesn't give a f***. 2) When he's town he MAKES DAMN SURE HE LOOKS TOWN 3) When he's town his reads actually make sense, when he's scum I can't tell why he's doing what he's doing That is more image related that scum hunting related. | ||
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On February 08 2013 02:29 Oatsmaster wrote: The reason why I think Palmar is town this game, much to my regret is, Fuck me, thats pretty convincing. The WIFOM for that is... Palmar is aware of that comment and can adapt hoping someone will post that. I think what I said stands though.. this nomination mechanic gives an opportunity for a good town player to be the most pro-town they have ever been, and never be lynched (and obviously night killed) | ||
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PLEASE CONSIDER CONSOLIDATING. On February 08 2013 02:23 Mocsta wrote: Guys, after doing that votecount, we have no idea what the USA shift is going to lean towards as they become active in the next couple hours. There is no firm candidate for lynch. I think we HAVE to consolidate. From what I can see the choices are Palmar / JX / Snarfs I am concerned about Palmar, BUT I think we need to go for the guaranteed flip. For me thats JX. His filter speaks for itself; I think he is the safest choice. (and his latest posts about oats are just ridiculous) Mr. CC i know you want Snarfs on the table; but do you really think he is a higher chance to flip than JX? ##Unvote ##Vote: JieXian | ||
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I was shocked that there was no clear vote leader when I did the count. It definitely felt like a bandwagon was happening; (when it actually didnt) | ||
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I know your getting smashed from all angles about being scum. Can you please summarise in dot point, what actions you have taken to establish your innocence this game? In my opinion your posting much like your last scum game. | ||
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On February 08 2013 02:55 Snarfs wrote: I'll answer your question but I need you to answer mine: Tell me why you think VE is "probably town". I just don't see him trying to find scum right now. And sure, maybe my meta is out of date, but that doesn't change the fact that he's still being all wishy-washy like in his reads. First of all, notice how he starts "I think Snarfs might well be scum. So here's a little push in his direction, care of the guy who isn't pushing anyone." He's not aggressive, he's not interested. Hell he's not even addressing me. ------------------------------------------- I still don't like a Palmar lynch. I can't read Palmar like I can read VE. If I thought VE might be town I would be just as against a VE lynch as a Palmar lynch because they both have an uncanny ability to find scum as town. Snarfs I listed him as probable town, because I thought there was insight in the reads (that I had not considered and made sense to me) + I also liked the direction he was trying to give. I also liked the way he interjected with the oats/mocsta feud. When it happened live, I had my doubts on VE (you can tell with how I responded to him).. but re-reading the interactions several times I thought he tried to repair the situation in a very pro-town manner. I know scum can ask to stop in-fighting as well; but i dont think they had to provide the effort VE used. Regardless of if you like it or not.. his insight on your post in my opinion was reasonable (i.e. you voted him for leaving, because you knew oats/myself were town).. perhaps Im biased to this outcome because I know I am town, and I think oats is town. He has further reads on others, that again, I thought the insight made sense. Check out this Snarf http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394344&user=117978¤tpage=All That is VE filter from Normal Mini 4 (last week, he was town) Here is his first vote.. starts off a bit like his case on you. On January 26 2013 17:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay so far I think iamp is the scummiest. Earlier he asked me if I was serious about my accusation of thrawn. Looking back I noticed this in his filter. In this post he appears to be suspicious of prom for his vote on Vivax. What strikes me however is that if he's suspicious of Prom, he's basically telling Prom how to answer to make himself less suspicious. Why would he do this as a townie? As scum I can see reason for him to coach Prom through to the correct response regardless of Prom's alignment, but why would iamp do that as town? Especially given his response to my calling him out: It would kind of at that. ##Vote: iamperfection The point regarding lacking scum hunt initiative that you raised has piqued my interest enough I would drop VE to leaning town (i.e. still have relatively carefully the motive). But in the end I am willing to take a risk on VE, even if in teh obs qt everyone says he conned me good. Im still stuck with you though. ================== Snarfs What do you make of this whole Oats situation, specifically the 180' swap on Palmar JX highlighted (of all people) | ||
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On February 08 2013 03:18 prplhz wrote: Well, that's kind of the case. He is elusive and calls out people for obvious reasons and seems perfectly happy about that. I already wrote that with a lot more words but I think you nailed it in one sentence. ?? On February 08 2013 02:54 jaybrundage wrote: In response to prplhz about my pressure on Djo. I pressured Djo because I didn't like the way he was posting and using his RNG lynch to avoid discussion. I still don't see him as town and think people have let him go to quick as silly town. As i stated tho we need to consolidate and i would be fine doing it on JX. While he started posting he is doing a terrible job of establishing his townieness and i still think he can flip scum. Also how the votes are spread out makes me think that JX has an even likelier chance to flip scum. Palmar I would would like your thoughts on the JX lynch | ||
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I know people are off your back due to the 180' case on Oats. but I would like an answer to my last questions. On February 08 2013 02:46 Mocsta wrote: JX I know your getting smashed from all angles about being scum. Can you please summarise in dot point, what actions you have taken to establish your innocence this game? In my opinion your posting much like your last scum game. | ||
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I am not buying JX case on Oats. Yes Oats did a 180', but the Marv post was convincing. Why couldnt Oats have just found that post? All the vets have been posting links of past games; why is it scummy Oats opened Mafia LVIII and ctrl+f "palmar" and found that marv quote. I never read Mafia LVIII but I still know Palmar trolled that game as town. As his last game, if doing meta read, is it not relevant to search that game for content? =================== Fact is, before this JX case, he was scummy as fuck. Why are we off JX; he finds one issue with Oats play; throws out WIFOM bomb, and suddenly is clear? WE NEED TO CONSOLIDATE JX case is made throughout the thread.
JX in this game is not lynch-bait; what has he done that is actually town motivated. I have had to ask this question to him twice, and still havent received a response. The goal of Day1 deadline is to lynch the player with the highest chance of being scum. Can can this NOT be JX? ========================= Please consolidate and lead with a vote on JX On February 08 2013 02:23 Mocsta wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: JieXian | ||
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On February 08 2013 03:29 JieXian wrote: Btw I play some noob poker and I am aware of meta and using it to your advantage: Get a tight image at the table and you can start bluffing. Speaking poker terms. Its often the short stack has to all-in to feign the power hand.. all to claim the blinds. Analogies can apply any way you see fit. | ||
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On February 08 2013 03:33 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm willing to consolidate onto JX. I hope thats in refernce to my request directly above Pretty please | ||
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On February 08 2013 03:35 JieXian wrote: and I'm not going to give you any fucking bullet points because the only thing any of you had on me was that I wasn't around. How about your first fuckn post voting me. you dont even exlpain why it is now "invalid" | ||
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On February 08 2013 03:35 JieXian wrote: and I'm not going to give you any fucking bullet points because the only thing any of you had on me was that I wasn't around. P.S. town dont talk about what "you got on me" they talk about proving their innocence. Because the cases are not valid in the first place. Your mentality is the wrong way; thats a behaviour trait of scum. Theres no turning back from taht one. | ||
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I know your reading this. I would appreciate if we can converse again please. In regards to JX On February 08 2013 00:54 prplhz wrote: I didn't want to talk a lot about JieXian because I wanted to see if he showed up on his own. He has posted around this time (actually a couple hours later) before in this game so I thought I'd not comment on him to see if he showed up again. If he didn't then I would be pretty sure that he was actually just not here which doesn't say much about his alignment. Of course this gamble doesn't work if I talk about it in the thread. Anyway, now that he's here he needs to start fending for himself since he apparently has four votes on him. On February 08 2013 01:14 prplhz wrote: Will people please comment on jaybrundage. JieXian sucks and he'll need to do something about that but in the meantime I want some feedback on jaybrundage. I am not sure what JX sucks means. What I do know is that you are focused on jaybrundage. What is odd is that. after several pages (including JX being active) we get this: On February 08 2013 03:31 prplhz wrote: No, I don't have any strong scum reads and that's annoying because there are a lot of scum so some of them should be obvious already now (hopefully). I don't know who I will vote, I have a list of people I don't want to vote but that doesn't help me much. I want to lynch jaybrundage as I have already said a bunch of times but that's not a strong scum read (just the best I have) and it's not actually a lot that nobody else likes it. You said originally you were holding off commenting on JX because he wasnt present. Well now he is, I would like you to expound on his alignment and why? | ||
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Yamato I have a random question for you. If everyone bar two guys wanted to vote Oats and the two guys wanted to vote JX Do you think the two guys would get ignored? ======================= + Im going to bed its 2.50am here + I believe JX leads the vote count, lets keep it that way | ||
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If scum Thing is i am not sure if mafia needed to bus jx yet. When i went to bed he wasnt a majority candidate. Phagga what do u make of palmar voting prplhz when everyone else cleared him by meta? | ||
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i.e. VE not oushing his reads hard Same tjing when phone typing mr. thread snipet (prplhz) | ||
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If scum Thing is i am not sure if mafia needed to bus jx yet. When i went to bed he wasnt a majority candidate. Phagga what do u make of palmar voting prplhz when everyone else cleared him by meta? | ||
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i.e. VE not pushing his reads hard Same tjing when phone typing mr. thread snipet (prplhz) | ||
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(1) What do you make of sl0osh and his lack of appearance in basically 24hrs Its near lynch deadline, and he still hasnt voted.. he backed off yamato pretty easily too (2) What do you make of Djo, aside from setup talk all he has done is inflate a comment I made. During the pivotal lynch discussions yesterday (he made himself present by voting) but decided to lurk and only push his vote on Palmar. (3) Im confident on JX as scum. His contributions since coming back have about flinging shit at everything till something sticks. That is his scum meta to a tee. My problem is Palmar... im still convinced by the marv quote to give palmar a chance... but palmar wants to lynch prplhz and save JX.. (i thought we all agreed prplhz meta is matching town) so palmar recommendations are direct opposite to what I expected... | ||
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On February 08 2013 08:54 VisceraEyes wrote: He didn't explain anything in that post phagga. He didn't say why he wanted to lynch any of those targets. It barely even qualifies as a bus in that instance because he's not pushing his read and he's barely interested in where his vote goes. And regardless of the second post you quoted, the fact remains that he didn't do shit to actually get prplhz lynched. This is a fact. So you can bitch at me all you want about "voting for my scumread's target", because I know that prplhz was never really a target for Palmar because he's come back since then and hasn't mentioned him again. Not even a "Guys lynch prplhz" like he's wont to do. Nothing. VE, I dont get this, can you please explain in more detail because I know that prplhz was never really a target for Palmar because he's come back since then and hasn't mentioned him again The problem I have with this is the timeline (1) Palmar: Vote prplhz //VE: Vote Palmar (2) VE: Pro-town post: lynch 1 of these 4.. I will vote palmar scum read (3) Palmar gives list of lynch candidates So how did you know palmar would back down.. when all you had was a single vote on prplhz? That is very unclear to me. | ||
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Im think im settled on JX with so little time. The meta argument is pretty good. Compare Mafia LIX (JX = town) to Normal Mini Mafia 4 (JX = scum) OR even this game. The contrast is as stark as prplhz meta shift. I know prplhz listed some points in favour of JX being town, but IIRC it was all based on assumptions of behaviiour. Palmar is probably not aware of JX meta, so not sure how valid his argument to save JX is either. | ||
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including Djo lack of contributions for 24hrs sl0osh looking like he getting modkilled & jay started off well, but since has provided nothing new; when i think much has occured in the thread; im starting to see the elusiveness prplhz/Mr.CC were talking about. ====== but this is all day2 discussion. see you at the deadline | ||
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On February 08 2013 10:10 jaybrundage wrote: I'm trying to stay away from my overly spammy town meta. Where i post alot but not much of it has value. I rather not post alot but when i do post at least contribute something to the town. Fair enough, I have exactly the same problem so can understand that. Its not alignment indicative though. Having said that, I know you were active over 5 hrs ago; and are active now. So I am really expecting some analysis/insight from you after the deadline. If I could focus your energy, I would suggest the VE situation - as there seems to be enough "meat" there to do analysis; but its up to you and what you reads are. | ||
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On February 08 2013 10:28 GMarshal wrote: Game start post has been updated with wonderful fluff. Check it out Oh, and about 30 minutes to lynch. I'm getting food so it the post may be *slightly* delayed, but not by much Nanobots for the win. Thanks, cool flavour! | ||
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On February 08 2013 10:36 Snarfs wrote: You're spinning my words to make it sound how you want it to sound. That's scummy. You're scum. Please explain to me the two things from JX, and how they are town-motivated or NOT alignment indicative. (1) His first post = a case on Mocsta. Specifically the focus of the case being pre-game commentary. (2) Last night when he becamse active, starts questioning Djo motives (multiple times) Then picks onto grammar issues with reads on Oats (and completely misinterprets the commentary) again multiple times Once I threw some doubt onto Palmar, he immediately bandwagons the vote. with "I agree" Proceeds to make the 180' case on Oats; which is really alignment null for Oats.. im still surprised prplhz jumped all over him for that. Once I put the limelight back on JX, he disappears (him, me, Djo, Oats are all the same timezone btw) Im not seeing how all those points are town/alignment null indicators, so I am keen for your insight. (because of top of those actions, you have the meta case on him from Yamato) | ||
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On February 08 2013 10:43 Snarfs wrote: There's a difference between what someone "literally says" and what someone means. I meant that I agreed with Palmar's stance on JX and I would assume that's how most players would interpret it. Snarfs, I think to promote good town atmosphere we need to avoid taking this easy stances without justification. This to me is no different than "sheeping" and is not helping me discern you as town or scum. Please, if you agree with someones rational, at least point out why. | ||
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On February 08 2013 10:53 Snarfs wrote: He could have believed Mocsta was scum? He follows up by comparing your meta. And he tries to question you on your apparent change in meta. There's no scum motive here. Bad town explains all those things. In fact, you pointing it out makes it sound even more like bad town. Why would scum call someone out for something as dumb as that? Why would scum make a complete 180 and draw a bunch of attention to themselves? JX posts he is fully aware of his town meta, and tries to replicate it. I guess the biggest challenge of this game is deciding between bad townie / scum. I dont think the 180' case draws attention to JX, in fact, it took him off the limelight, and suddenly propped oats as a lynch contender. (Yes this can be done as town or scum trying to save their ass) My problem is the constant testing of waters fro mocsta,-> djo -> palmar -> oats.. thats scummy to me, and not indicative of taking a firm stance (which is tpyically a town trait) either way 5min to lynch, we will find out shortly whether the meta is right or wrong. | ||
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On February 08 2013 10:58 Snarfs wrote: Because he hasn't done anything with scum motive. I don't know how else to explain it besides in that last post addressing your questions. Everything could be explained by some form of bad town. I wrote that post before you replied to the other points. That was a comment in general, i dont think anyone should get away with sheeping. | ||
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man.. this sucks | ||
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Whats annoying here is Snarfs was the only person who produced a counter argument to JX. and JX certainly did himself no favours waking up 5min before the lynch. Im going back to work, this is really a disappointing outcome. | ||
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I can already see a very clear difference in pressure. Snarfs has maintained his read since the start. Has made a case that had zero traction. & has still chosen to keep pushing it. Scum dont do this FULL STOP. Snarfs could have easily shifted to another target. (As an aside I wish he gave his JX bad townie rationale earlier, but perhaps hew as like me and waiting for JX to appear in the thread) Then look @ VE Now I know Day1 reads are subject to change as the game picks up; so i have no qualms with vote swapping as long as due justification is given. All of VE vote swaps are pretty weak On February 07 2013 03:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh neat, Palmar didn't even comment on random lynching. Another infallible scum tell for our icelandic friend. ##Vote: Palmar On February 07 2013 17:58 VisceraEyes wrote: I think prplhz is the most realistic lynch candidate, and I'll tell you why (though you probably won't like it.) Palmar apparently wants to lynch prplhz. Is that fucked up or what? But it's true. If Palmar comes back in here and says "Yeah I still want to lynch prplhz" then I believe that prplhz will get lynched. In spite of fucking off for the entire game, Palmar has more say over who gets lynched than I do. But I'm not bitter - all is not lost you see. For I can also get down on a prplhz lynch. I'd still do somersaults over a Palmar lynch or Snarfs lynch, but honestly I just don't think I can make it happen today. ##Unvote: Palmar ##Vote: prplhz On February 08 2013 03:02 VisceraEyes wrote: Still no quotes from this game explaining your viewpoint. Just vague meta references and now you're throwing in non-alignment indicative bullshit. ##Unvote: prplhz ##Vote: Snarfs WOOOWOOOOOOOOO This is the lynch guys, all aboard. On February 08 2013 06:52 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Unvote: Snarfs ##Vote: JieXian It's still true - it was just an observation. I wouldn't say he's been discussed "all day"...he doesn't even have enough content to warrant all-day discussion. And his resurgence into the thread when the threat of lynch is real certainly doesn't speak well for him either. Votes Palmar on RNG? I took this originally as a joke vote, but then VE continued to push for this lynch with simple one-liners showing he wanted to take it seriously. Then he swaps to prplhz.. his scum votes, target... like wtf? The justification is crap, and he has tried to explain his motives several times (each unconvincingly) The vote on Snarfs, is interesting.. (1) prplhz was cleared by meta for most active participants.. and (2) it reeks of OMGUS; its usually scum who imemdiately go OMGUS and followup with a vote. (whereas town typically OMGUS with flaming/cases/banter) Lastly, the vote on JX is a complete sheep; adding no thought into the matter. ========= I think this voting pattern indeed corroborates Snarfs meta-read on VE (in relation to scum hunting.. which he later clarified) If I am alive Day 3, I am more than willing to support a VE lynch right now. | ||
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On February 08 2013 11:33 Snarfs wrote: a) Half-hearted attempt at lynching Palmar b) Dissonant vote on prplhz while still wanting to kill Palmar c) Half-hearted switch to JieXian d) Wishy-washy statements about other players fuckn sniped | ||
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Jay, you are pinging the shit out of my scum-dar. In a nutshell your filter contains - No useful contributions, other than you following a curiosity on RNG (which was never taking off) - You were a proponent of bringing back into the limelight my comments to Oats, when i already gave my 2cents. - You admit to having no contributions to add to town (as your explanation on the lack of posts) - You was the first people to lead the JX lynch; before anything was concrete And to top it off - Your last post reads as if you dont give a shit a townie just flipped. You instantly move on, thinking about scum nominations already. Its like you fucked him in a one night stand and then kicked him out and didnt even call a taxi. Even when prplhz is questioning you; you respond meekly, I believe with the intention to be ignored. It worked. Whilst this occured you were subtly asking everyone to consolidate on JX; but never contributed with serious thought on why he was the best candidate. This reeks to manipulation and scum play. Scummy townies often say things that are so stupid/wrong its easy to think they are trying to mislead as town. Your filter shows no signs of unintentional misleading, rather, when pressuring Jay you are EXTREMELY specific. Thus, for me, I see intentional play to drive your agenda: i.e.push JX as lynch candidate and remain low by making calculated decisions to show interest and responding methodically to blend in. @all Please share your thoughts on the above; do you see JayBrundage play as a bad townie? | ||
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On February 08 2013 13:52 jaybrundage wrote: In regards to the bold isnt that what everyone does? In all seriousness there isn't much to say about JX. JX was lurking hard and didn't contribute anything till some pressure was on him and even then he didn't produce much. I was having second thoughts about him per palmars post but no one wanted to lynch prplhz. I dont care if i bring your comments on Oats back to the limelight. If I think something you did was questionable I will call it out. You stated something I didn't agree with so I said as much. And are you fucking kidding me with this consolidation bit. Ofc we have to consolidate as town. If we don't it gives mafia more leeway to swing the vote. Also you your self were asking people to consolidate on JX so how is what you say even make sense. Also why do you ask if im a bad townie. Why not just ask if people think I'm scum? Jay,
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So if you dont see reasons for scum; how do you rate your town play this game as: pro-town, bad townie, or in the middle?? I still think we had different motives to consolidate. And I am still concerned you made a comment to consolidate and then fucked off. As I have said repeatedly, where is your commitment to developing your read via pressure/analysis/alternative means? Your play reads as if you dont care. All my questions regarding commitment you have dodged; why is that? Jay Do you have a top scum read? & why Who is your top town read? & why If you can answer these simple questions, that would go a way towards showing me you actually care. | ||
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What im getting at is  for example)When prplhz questioned you for pressuring Djo. I stood up for you because I thought that pressure was useful for town. I was also pressuring Djo about the RNG, but was less effective (in part due to him pressuring me simultaneously). In the end you got an interesting result. (i.e. Djo didtn want to push the RNG on Oats [apparently] but still followed through) My issue is, with the above statement from Djo; you said, thats it, im satisfied and stopped pursuit. Personally I thought there was much more to develop with this lead. Its also not clear to me, if you thought the RNG is a town indicator. So to me, this is why i am reading you as contributing without contributing. You led some pressure, and then once you peeled the first layer of the onion off; you stopped as if you had done your duty. | ||
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On February 08 2013 14:42 yamato77 wrote: Let's wait and talk about reads after we see the day post. I don't want mafia getting any ideas about who is good to nominate. In the mean time, I like Mocsta's train of thought about the lynch. Who seemed to not care? Reread and we'll talk about it on day 2. Peace. Technically it is Day2. Also, if we dotn talk about it now; I think it will get forgotten when the nominees come out and we have to discuss them. | ||
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On February 08 2013 15:20 yamato77 wrote: Yes but we're not lyching our reads tomorrow, we're lynching who mafia pick. Giving out reads right now lets them play WIFOM games with who they picked and why. Better to let them make a tougher, less informed decision about the nominations than to give them ideas. Tomorrow night we can begin scum hunting like normal, but tonight we need to consider the setup more closely and try to prepare ourselves to properly analyze the mafia picks tomorrow. hmmm I guess it wont hurt to use this 24hrs to re-read the thread post the activity explosion last night, without feeling the need to constantly F5. K, I prob wont be back till post-dawn. It is Friday night after all Ohh btw; I wont be available till prob 12 hrs into the next cycle (sat day is always hectic for me) | ||
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Whats the point of forcing one townie lynch if you then confirm two townies. Thats weak play. Why are you raising this VE.. For someone who liked my 'nomination insight' this statement of yours is an overly simplistic conclusion. | ||
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pls spell it out for me. Why are u certain u will be up for the lynch? I thought that comment was odd. | ||
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But people need to stop proposing 3 town is guaranteed (i.e. sl0osh and VE). It is not certain, so dont advocate it. & I still want an answer to why sl0osh thinks he is going to be up for lynch; AFAIK all 12 of us could be up for lynch, what makes him special. | ||
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I have a question why cheesecake vs mudcake? | ||
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On February 08 2013 20:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Guys, why are we discussing who scum is gonna pick? How does it help town at this point of time? Im not trying to be a smart arse.. but considering the above why are you raising this now? | ||
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I thought the whole spiel of yam/sl0osh was if you talk about scumreads now, it can influence who is nominated. | ||
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I did bring up jay hours ago. Im saying the other guys were against discussing it | ||
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can you give thoughts on the convo between me/jay do you see good townie, bad townie, or other? | ||
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On February 08 2013 23:06 Oatsmaster wrote: So? Are you in favor/not in favour of discussing reads? See this is why we dont get along On February 08 2013 22:59 Mocsta wrote: im more than happy to discuss scumreads I did bring up jay hours ago. Im saying the other guys were against discussing it I can comment on your prplhz thingo if you want, im still waiting for feedback from you on my jay stuff | ||
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working on it. *sigh* its because i write what im thinking; instead of think what i write. | ||
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i havent made up my mind with you, im trying to read your town games to see why you said your a scummy-town. I just wanted feedback on my points. | ||
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Theory craft With JX 3 things happened (1) People called him scummy (2) People defended him as lynch bait (3) People did not comment. If we were going to narrow down scum candidates by whether they did 1,2 or 3; which category do you think will have the highest chance of finding a scum? | ||
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Yam.. my main reason is: I assume we will end up focusing on how the 3 nominees acted during Day1 - instead of looking at how JX ended up on the table. I dont want to lose sight of this. | ||
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Serious q: considering its just us guys here, Im not sure if its valuable sharing reads. We just saying stuff and no one is giving feedback. perhaps best to just consolidate thoughts and not spam the thread? | ||
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On February 09 2013 00:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I believe someone said they wanted to lynch a lurker D1. Candidates for that: JX / Palmar. I wanted to lynch JX (and suggested it) over Palmar in that case, snarfs still being my vote / priority, but I'd consolidate on JX if we really wanted to lynch a lurker because I'd rather not risk losing a town Palmar this early. Then somehow the JX wagon overtook my Snarfs wagon and all hell broke loose. How did you miss VE as the Policy Lurker advocate? + pls give feedback on: On February 08 2013 23:50 Mocsta wrote: Theory craft With JX 3 things happened (1) People called him scummy (2) People defended him as lynch bait (3) People did not comment. If we were going to narrow down scum candidates by whether they did 1,2 or 3; which category do you think will have the highest chance of finding a scum? | ||
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im looking at ways to narrow down deep analysis im still waiting for an answer | ||
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fuck this. | ||
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Points u said to snarf apply to yourself cc. Anyways. I thought dawn was over 30min ago? | ||
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Common sl0osh lead those discussions | ||
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On February 09 2013 16:21 phagga wrote: (1) While I was not 100% sold on Mocstas townieness yesterday, he is for sure the guy I would lynch last currently. (2) I have a small post put together with thoughts/questions on some other players before yesterday but did not post it because I did not want to influence nominations. I will not post it right now, as D2 is fresh and the current vote discussion is more important, but I will put it up later (latest beginning of D3). (1) If you're not "100% sold" on me: Do you have any questions you would like me to address? (2) I think it would be of great benefit if you can share that information *this* cycle. From the discussions so far, people seem believe it is 3 townies for nomination. Thus, we may as well use this cycle to discuss the happenings of the Day 1 lynch; maybe even pressure scum reads. Please share your questions/reads. | ||
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On February 09 2013 16:54 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, who do you want to lynch today? I need to hear what sl0osh has to say before making a decision. Due to: On February 08 2013 15:19 slOosh wrote: mmm .... for clarity's sake: I am sitting on my reads because I also have the unique advantage of a clean slate. If I give out a wrong town read, they can put one of themselves up and "gang up" on the 3rd townie. Thus with the flip I'd look bad and they can always draw attention away from themselves by pushing it onto me. If you are concerned by my absence, just let me take front and center tomorrow, so that I can have a great showing and (re)convince you otherwise. I think we had a great D1, and I highly encourage everyone to reread it. As an aside: My main problem with sl0osh and what I need him to re-address is "Why did he think he would be up for nomination" On February 09 2013 01:15 slOosh wrote: The optimal scum play is to therefore make nominations in a way that can eliminate from this pool of people. For instance, say there were three more JX esque players - townies with much suspicion on them. Scum would be shooting themselves in the foot by putting these three up for nomination because even though it results in a mislynch, it aids town because it means someone who is 1) or 2) didn't get mislynched, which causes headaches for them late game. I think it is arguable, sl0osh missing 3/4 of Day 1 does cast suspicion on him. This is followed up by "dangling a carrot" of 'clean slate reads'. Something I was not a fan. (We all have reads, why say this?) Using his logic of optimal scum play = 3 townies; it does not make sense for him to be included. | ||
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I have phagga as a scum read as well, mainly to do with the JX interactions. (haven't read your case yet) With Palmar: I still want more on the below On February 06 2013 23:29 Palmar wrote: Btw I have a super day 2 plan to counter the mafia, just you wait. I hope he wasn't referring to: On February 09 2013 12:59 Palmar wrote: None of us are mafia, just random lynch. Can kill me if you want to. | ||
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On February 09 2013 17:46 yamato77 wrote: I suppose that makes sense. I happen to agree with your read on Phagga, so for now I suppose we just wait. Though, if we're going by your criteria, I fully expect Palmar to die today, which is less than ideal in my mind, as I explained before. You would have been my pick over him but I guess if you're playing and he's not, I'd rather have you live. ##Unvote Instead of reading this game last night, I was watching Palmars "read" video in Hero Mini. (1hr 40min takes a while) I can understand wanting to keep him alive Day1 trolling or not. In particular with the Marv quote Oats found. But as we all know, Palmar isnt a stupid guy and I would say is more than aware of Marvs quote and how to use/abuse it P.S. watching that vid was nuts. In the first 5 - 10 pages of thread he nailed pretty much all the scum (other than marv/bugs the wrong way around) My point is if he is town On February 07 2013 23:05 Palmar wrote: I can't be much around today. Very quick reading makes me want to lynch cheescake, snarfs, prplhz maybe phagga or yamato So I'll leave my vote on prplhz This list should not contain many town (if any at all). I mean, isnt this the reason town wants to gamble on him? So yes we need Palmar to "flesh out" reads/tells on CC or snarfs or prplhz If we agree with the reads (as scum) then we have 3 townies, and kill me for being the least useful (or RNG) If we dont agree with the reads (i.e majority = town), then lynch Palmar. | ||
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You are the only person I noticed that has made ZERO posts since the nominations? You are the only person I noticed that has made ZERO posts since Day2 dawn phase? Please bring us up to speed with your top scum reads based on the Day1 lynch proceedings | ||
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*Palmar unveils RNG lynch plan* On February 10 2013 02:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Yes Palmar, what's the benefit of keeping information from scum until after they've acted? On February 10 2013 02:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Because he didnt know the nominations? Maybe? On February 09 2013 18:54 Mocsta wrote: This list should not contain many town (if any at all). I mean, isnt this the reason town wants to gamble on him? So yes we need Palmar to "flesh out" reads/tells on CC or snarfs or prplhz Palmar shared his RNG lynch "super plan"... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=47#926 but what is your opinion on the below: In the same big wall of text failed to address any of those previously listed reads: citing: he is not up to date with the thread. Considering he responded to comments in Day 1 enough to recognise JX may not be scum; I find it difficult to apprehend why he can not share his reasonings for listing those people on Day 1 as scummy due to their Day 1 actions. | ||
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So you are motivated enough to actively lurk and respond when mentioned. But not motivated enough to provide your own highly regarded thoughts and reads? If as a townie u keep saying "tis OK. Lynch me" why bother to respond in the first place? Fact: I can't confirm/deny if your motivations are low. What I do know is that this setup allows for a pro town townie to NEVER be lynched or killed. I still don't get why highly regarded players (such as yourself and others) have not stepped up. This nomination mechanic is better than bodyguards. Hence i find it is peculiar it is not being taken advantage of... | ||
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On February 10 2013 12:39 jaybrundage wrote: I would also like everyones thoughts on lynching VE tmw Are you preferring VE over phagga, (i.e is VE your best scum read) or just raising interest in general? | ||
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On February 10 2013 00:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Mocsta + Show Spoiler [CC finding] + From the start of the thread, the interaction between Oats/him made me lean more townie on Oats than him. Just searching through his filter I was like holy crap that many pages... He hasn't been on my scumdar at all lately. Recently, he asked me to go through his discussion with Jay. One thing I found weird: On February 08 2013 13:29 Mocsta wrote: I have had a re-read of Vers guide, and starting to look for specific things in play. Jay, you are pinging the shit out of my scum-dar. -snip- On February 08 2013 14:52 Mocsta wrote: Jay, So if you dont see reasons for scum; how do you rate your town play this game as: pro-town, bad townie, or in the middle?? I still think we had different motives to consolidate. And I am still concerned you made a comment to consolidate and then fucked off. As I have said repeatedly, where is your commitment to developing your read via pressure/analysis/alternative means? Your play reads as if you dont care. All my questions regarding commitment you have dodged; why is that? Jay Do you have a top scum read? & why Who is your top town read? & why If you can answer these simple questions, that would go a way towards showing me you actually care. On February 08 2013 23:02 Mocsta wrote: CC can you give thoughts on the convo between me/jay do you see good townie, bad townie, or other? Am I the only one that finds this weird? Calls him scum then keeps asking if he's a good town or bad town... Maybe he knows Jay is town? Who really cares what Jay thinks of his town play anyway, it doesn't help us find scum. Perhaps, but a 9 page filter already... Mocsta (generally) seems rather pro-town at this stage. With a 9 page filter he's certainly not being apprehensive, but scum mocsta isn't afraid to do that. I'm a bit curious of him at this stage, rather leaning townie. Mr.CC not sure if you wanted me to answer this, or just musings; but will treat it as a question. I noticed peculiarities in Jay play. I called him out on it. I didn't want to jump to conclusions on Jay due to the JX lynch; i.e. the whole "bad townie" / "too scum to be scum" type play style. If I ask people to look for scum tells in his play; I think it gives them (town AND scum) permission to be Confirmation Biased in the filter read. If you ask for bad townie, at least people are trying to create mental arguments for why it is town or scum play. I think this leads to a better read in the end. + Show Spoiler [CC. phagga read] + Phagga He's really friggen paranoid. Take a look-see On February 06 2013 18:55 phagga wrote: I never wanted to imply those things. I see Oats behaviour as disruptive, and I see how he misinterpreted your posts. It is also fine that you call him out on this, it's just the way you did it on a few occasions that got my attention. First, I never ever wanted to suggest we RNG the votes! That would kill of discussion and is absolutely unnecessary. I just wanted to say that statistically, random lynches on D1 would be more successful than what town normally is doing, hence lynching lurkers (who can be a liability for town later on) D1 is a viable option. Nevertheless, our goal has to be to find scum and lynch them, starting D1. How the D1 lynch should go down IMO: - If we have a clear scum suspect, let's lynch him - If not, but there is a lurker who we can not get any alignement of, lynch him. Finally, only because the setup SHOULD mitigate lurking does not mean there will be no lurkers. I mentioned this earlier and it still bugs me. "Holy crap I didn't mean to come off scummy I never ever meant to suggest we RNG votes thats so anti-town I'm not anti-town guys seriously". Phagga comes off as suuuuuper paranoid, like he's got something to cover up. In addition, the bottom bolded part is more obvious than Mr. Obvious McObvious. Nice contribution to the thread! He also comes off as paranoid here: On February 08 2013 02:51 phagga wrote: Dude I wrote i am on the train, how about you read my posts? Yes, set on jx. My point was more about scum abusing palmars meta, his behaviour so far is just not alignement-indicative, and he is probably the only one that I would let get away with it. Snarf I feel unsure about, have to read up fully on his case on VE. I currently think he might be right about VE, so I do not want to lynch him I ask him if he'd like to lynch Snarfs with me, and completely is like "No wtf I said I'm lynching JX what are you even talking about" Next is his sheepy reasons for voting JX On February 07 2013 18:55 phagga wrote: My vote goes to JieXian for coming into the thread and voting Mocsta for a bad reason, then completely disappearing again. ##Vote JieXian Regarding Palmar: he is trolling hard, I dont know if all you got this: Nevertheless, he is trolling D1 as either town or scum, and I know how good a player he can be, so I hesitate to lynch him for now. prplhz dissappearance is worrying, might be timezone related. His filter is devoid of analysis. I hope to see some more from him in the next few hours. I will read up on Djo and Snarfs at the next possibility and comment on them. He literally gives a sentence to support it, and it's been said before. By myself and by some others. The rest of the thread he doesn't even question JX much, just keeps his vote content there while he talks about prphlz and pressures VE. He has this huge post about VE and his voting with red text and all, but never votes him... he's confident in the JX lynch somehow. It's confusing: is he avoiding talking of JX in order to distance himself from a green flip? I see no scumhunting from him in regards to JX the entirety of day. Such little interaction with him. It's like he was more concerned about a next lynch so he can set up his scumread on VE after JX dies. Also wtf is all this crap: On February 07 2013 18:56 phagga wrote: sniped by JX, but doesn't really change anything for my vote for now. On February 07 2013 22:56 phagga wrote: oh wow, I got sniped big time. Reading up. On February 08 2013 06:40 phagga wrote: Bah, sniped again. Still, it's not like this is a completely uncontested lynch. Also, where the hell is sloosh? Keeps 'getting sniped' lol. Not alignment indicative but it made me laugh. The fact that he votes but never really talks to JX should be indicative enough that he didn't care about the lynch. Leaning hard scumster on this dude. He's paranoid as hell, shitty reasons / contributions to lynching JX, and posting obvious things early game that do nothing to help town. When I said to sl00sh that I had a scum read on phagga due to JX interactions, this was PRECISELY what I was talking about. This read gives me a much townier read on you; if you were bussing phagga, I dont think scum would go into this much detail. Fact: If I survive this nomination lynch, my vote is going instantly onto phagga. | ||
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On February 10 2013 08:13 phagga wrote: Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town, that's how much he figured out the game. Only JX is confirmed. Slip of the "scum-gue" | ||
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On February 10 2013 14:08 jaybrundage wrote: But Mocsta you didn't really give your opinions on the VE lynch are you just going after phagga or does VE appeal to you as well? VE is of appeal to me. But he is experienced and according to others slippery. A mislynch Day3 + 3 townies for nomination, would make the game 5-4 heading into Day5. I think it is essential we hit scum Day 3; and i think phagga has enough evidence in his filter to build a substantial non-return case out of (in fact, most of the case work has been done by sl0osh/Mr.CC). TL;DR We need to clear a scum Day 3. hit the guy with the highest chance to be scum (phagga), not the guy with the highest potential to fuck town up (VE). Im leading Day3 with a phagga vote. (if not voted) | ||
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On February 10 2013 14:33 Mocsta wrote: Only JX is confirmed. Slip of the "scum-gue" Sorry. didnt see this CC. On February 10 2013 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: who's the second guy to have flipped town? that case was so bad. Because someone is wrong doesnt make them scum. Phagga, lol. Wont take credit for it. fuckn sniped again. | ||
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On February 10 2013 09:40 phagga wrote: Since Sloosh specifically asked for it: + Show Spoiler + On February 09 2013 17:19 slOosh wrote: + Show Spoiler + The low hanging fruit in this game is phagga. If you familiarize yourself with his meta (nicely displayed in his profile and devoid of any scum games), it becomes clearer that he is new scum whose play pales to his town play. I've pointed out in my earliest post what I found about phagga to be interesting. On February 07 2013 01:21 slOosh wrote: I found phagga's entry into the game pretty weak (of all the things to talk about he picked out something pretty minor) and his "coaching" of Mocsta very unnatural. What are your thoughts on him? I pointed it out when I distracted myself by latching onto the yamato thing here, but the tells are pretty valid. He has a focus on lurkers, "contributing" statistics and reasoning. His "coaching" is very awkward, as seen: On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote: Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you. Awkward checklist: - Talking to Mocsta rather than VE concerning Mocsta's play, over something he disagrees with VE about. - Stating that Mocsta is writing calmly, but then dismissing everything else by saying it is alignment null, i.e. devoid of content - Pointing out to the subject himself the problems with his play rather than convincing / discussing with other people. Compare this to a D1 post (about three quarters into cycle) from Wheel of Fortune Mafia: On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his "really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. Very straightforward, gives clear thoughts and explanations, talks to town in general rather than the subjects. Why don't you compare it to GLS open mini Mafia which is newer and show that I can have weak entrances as town as well? + Show Spoiler + Another contrast is his fear of taking a hard stance, a common tell among newer scum players. Notice how many scum tells phagga is able to point out, and compare that with his final conclusion: The counterbalance to five points is yamato's town read explanation "which seems townish". There's a clear disconnect here people. phagga's newb scum play is showing: he is afraid of committing to a stance despite being able to list much evidence. That's just my usual insecurities that you can find in any game of me. The conclusion was how I felt about him, not how I should have interpreted the facts that I just listed. It was an error, you are right, my stance should have been stronger than it was. + Show Spoiler + And there are the empty promises he often makes, because he can't make actual reads: Doesn't do so. Doesn't comment on the case at all, and his "grilling of VE" concludes somehow, with this: More excuses not to post reads, because he doesn't have any. For someone who "took my advice" on rereading the thread (seriously why credit me with that), he clearly didn't read anything else I had to say since he is doing the exact opposite. I'd say that one is at least partially refuted by the post you missed. And sometimes you lack the time/forget that you wanted to follow up on someone (which kinda happened with djo). Example, VE also wanted to follow up on me very early in the game, and never did. phagga, the overall tone of this defense is: meek, and generally reads as "hey, you got me; im saying something cos I have to say something" (2) On February 07 2013 13:08 yamato77 wrote: In fact, let me go down my list and tell you guys exactly what I think of the game so far. I know you all hate list posts but whatever, deal with it. MAFIA Palmar JX Snarfs On February 10 2013 08:13 phagga wrote: Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town, that's how much he figured out the game. On February 10 2013 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: who's the second guy to have flipped town? On February 10 2013 09:47 phagga wrote: There was a sentence lost somewhere. It should say: Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town (If we assume Palmar is town, which most people seem to do by now), .... phagga, maybe you did leave the sentence out, but (IMHO) the original phrase reads pretty complete. [You were having a dig at him hence the "that's how much he figured out the game"] In fact, it read so smoothly I have no reason to think you would have considered your addendum (i.e. assume Palmar is town) when writing the comment. Also, at this stage it seems Palmar is leading the nomination votes; so odd you auto-assume he is town. Your addendum phrasing reads as if you knew Palmar was town, and happy everyone caught up to your knowledge "by now" Also, odd that you base your town read on Palmar, because "most people seem to do". This is the Fallacy: Bandwagon | ||
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On February 10 2013 17:04 yamato77 wrote: One thing I will say today is that I don't think VE is mafia at the moment. Drunk VE was very town last night. <3 drunk VE. Please translate which one. I think VE is a probably townie read and will defend him if/when pressure is applied, OR; I think VE is a leaning townie and willing to hear out pressure if/when applied | ||
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Well my vote is most likely on Palmar tomorrow. I am waiting to read this super post I think he said he was going to deliver, before making a final decision. I also recognise sl0osh contributed significantly with the phagga read/case, but, frankly, I was expecting him to step up more. In particular after his promises on how to manage the nomination days. Its almost as if he made the case, and then regressed back to late Day1. | ||
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*Too entrenched with re-formatting my computer* Sorry this is Off-Topic, so PM if you know the answer. [fluff question I am hoping someone here knows] i have a game on Origin, BUT the account i created was a typo'd email addy (i.e. I never verified it) Somehow, it still let me buy a game (so didnt realise till too late). I cant find an email address to contact Origin to find out how to fix this, and have been waiting 1hr30min for the Live Chat (and still waiting) | ||
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I know Palmar doesn't tend to rely on meta. So I can understand the doubt with prplhz. His play style to me is inherently scummy or at the least very self-centered. I think it really is between prplhz/VE as 1 scum. I will have to reread yamato. His case on me was terrible, and he didn't even bother to defend my counter case asking me to reread thinking he was town... When I reread it, none of it still made any sense. I haven't minded his actions post that case, but will reread. I still think phagga is the best candidate for day3. SlOosh, may I ask who you are planning to lead with on day3? | ||
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Fair points on prplhz. Trying to get info out of him is like trying to make olive oil from olives and bare hands.... What are your thoughts on Palmar read of yamato77? | ||
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Would you be against a policy lynch on Djodref? Its getting ridiculous now how long it has been since his last post. On February 08 2013 02:36 Djodref wrote: Well, I don't want to lynch JieXian if he wants to lynch Palmar. Regarding your last post about Palmar, here is my take. Town Palmar lynches scum (like in Hero Mini Mafia) or trolls like there is no tomorrow (like in LVIII). Here I seriously doubt that prplhz is scum, so I doubt that Palmar is town. I would also like to remind you that you sheeped onto Palmar's wagon at some point in this game  That is basically close to 72hours with no feedback what so ever. | ||
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I am choosing sl0osh due to motivation and activity. Hopefully one day I will get to see the full force of Palmar in action. Thank you for sharing your reads with us; I think this will at the least help to set towns path in the right direction. ##Vote: Palmar | ||
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With the current situation and your perceived town cred; I think it is best if you stop trying to fling shit where ever it will stick. I know you only have two hours set aside each thus; thus, I recommend you use that time to respond to the accusations from sl0osh and Mr. CC. I am sure you are more than aware of these - I mean, I don't want to insult your intelligence et. al - so I am just letting you know a response has been outstanding on these items for over 48 hours. | ||
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On February 11 2013 06:53 phagga wrote: In short, I only have a limited time playing this game, normally about 2 hours a day, today even less. I'm not gonna waste a lot of time defending myself, and instead try to find scum. Should I get misslynched D3 that would suck, but it's not the end of the world for town, since they can still start lynching scum D5 and win the game (assuming nominations end up all townie). Regarding my "scum-slip", believe what you want, I'll say this final thing on the matter: Scum slips normally happen when players post something rushed, a few lines to comment immediatly. I have never played scum, but I doubt I'd scumslip like this in a post I prepared for almost 2 hours. You insult my intelligence. phagga. Firstly i am not going to hammer vote someone because of a scum slip. In your case, this slip is icing on a very very large cake. I disagree with your line of thought though. Slips are nothing to do with rushing a post unless we're talking freudian slip. But let us not insult your intelligence here. We're obviously not. I would contest that spending two hours on your post is even more reason not to have a slip in the first place. Further if that was the best content you could muster in two hours.. Well the only comment i have is an insult to your intelligence. You see it is scum who always feel a desire to proof read and thus arebthe ones who require large amounts of time. Ironically thwn town is the one who rushes . Does not check . Hence leading to freudian slips. So where does that leave us. Simple phagga. You fucked up. That slip read natural to you because you couldnt separate yourself from the knowledge you have over town. Its that simple. Tl.dr i pulled out 2 hard scum slips in your short response and one very poor fallacy. Yet you took two hours. Admit it. You fucked up. Its ok. We al done it before when rolling scum. | ||
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On February 11 2013 08:03 slOosh wrote: My vote will be on Mocsta, by process of playing experience / strength. I believe him town and really appreciate his efforts, but other than Palmar there is no one left in the playerlist that I have a strong town read on and someone who can help me focus town in getting right lynches. That said I don't want this to be the cause for bad blood, and if you guys think I'm scum for it, I'm fine with being lynched too. ##Vote: Mocsta no bad blood. If palmar was committed i was happy to be voted off as weakest scum hunter of the three. I stated this prior. Having said that. Me surprised palmar is your strongest read but whatever. If we're still in. No bad blood from me. | ||
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U put some effort in the defense. I will read it with open eyes | ||
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Now that I know you're here. Not sure if you realise, but guys like me and I assume Oats etc, think the things above about you; simply because you're a vet. With that experience and reputation comes an expectation. Perhaps your town play in general is self-centered, but if you are town, we really need you to chip in more and provide your thoughts. You say you were against JX, fine, that either shows two things (1) Your scum and knew he was town OR (2) You're highly experienced, could see through the bullshit and made a right decision. I want to believe its (2), but the only way that can be confirmed is if you start sharing more of your insight. At the end of Day1, you were suspicious of Jay. I questioned him somewhat, and he was a bit more active early this nomination day. Is he still your top suspect to pursue come Day 3? | ||
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VE did a chainsaw defense. And we all know chainsaw defense => scum tell (usually) | ||
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will see what mr. mod says. luckily you voted before, otherwise may have been modkillable. | ||
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Guess Chinese New Year took its toll with oats/djo. GG Palmar. Even though you activity was low, you still managed to be transparent enough to establish innocent. Pretty impressive actually given the post count. | ||
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On February 11 2013 11:14 jaybrundage wrote: Im not happy this was a shitty pick for a lynch U know what is shitty jay you coming in 30min before lynch trying to pep-talk ppl to swap and then have the stones to come here and say "shitty pick" What are you even trying to achieve here? If you wanted Palmar in so bad, perhaps should have done it 6 hrs earlier when most of the USA/Europe shift was online. The consensus is the list was 3 townies; you are not getting any brownie points for sticking up for Palmar here from me. *This is nothing to do with that you voted me, its to do with your intent. its pointless* | ||
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Phagga made a heart felt defense to your jx accusations. Palmar was even reconsidering his read. I take it from your above post. Ur read was not swayed | ||
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(scum slip written on phone) However, there is so much doubt in the thread with yamato currently, which is the main reason I am holding back voting phagga. I am waiting for his response to what has been highlighted as issues. With Jay; thats a hard one. I cant guage if its just a guy pissed off; or a guy looking for town cred. Im leaning towards guy pissed off due to: On February 10 2013 12:36 jaybrundage wrote: Palmar I will change my vote for you but if you change your mind and decide to play then I will do my best to change the direction of the lynch. The balls in your court. ##Unvote ##Vote Palmar He wanted Palmar in from the start of the nomination; just wanted from him more effort. I dont have a problem he voted me; I said from the start, if palmar and sl0osh could promise motivation/activity, then I would be happy to be voted off. Jay thought palmar promised more; i dont think he did. Prob comes down to that. | ||
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On February 11 2013 12:26 jaybrundage wrote: Rofl how is calling the shitty lynch shitty trying to get town cred. If anything I knew it was "scummy" to fling shit on the palmar lynch. But at that time i was to busy being pissed off to give a fuck. If we had had a consistent vote count I would of acted sooner. But I really didn't know where we stood on whos getting lynched. Also I don't redact anything that I said. I think that at least 2-3 of the scum are on the Palmar Wagon. Think about it Palmar is a town monster. (The main reason I didn't want to lynch him) Scum will be afraid of him and they should. I have seen this guy legit call out the entire scum team day 1. Needless to say we (I was on the scum team) Shot his ass day 1. Look over what palmar said and consider his reads. He is known for being an amazing town player for a reason. I also am still pissed off at you fuckers btw for lynching him. Ugh so aggravating. Jay; We can't always have what we want. I wish most people werent lurking so hard You wish, Palmar was still here. Fact; Palmar was gracious enough to share his reads with us; and was pretty much advocating the whole time to "vote him". You need to accept that this was his decision, and move on. Being pissed at town is not going to help the situation; and others might even read this as an excuse from you to not bother contributing further. If you want to "honour his lynch" I suggest you follow your lead On February 11 2013 10:55 BioSC wrote: Palmar (6): Snarfs, phagga, yamato77, and pressure who you think is scum on that wagon. I think it is a really really poor excuse to blame not butting in early, because GM didnt make a post count. Its not hard to ctrl+f "##Vote".. if it was important enough to you, you would have done it. Stop throwing responsibility to others, when the buck stopped with you. | ||
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On February 11 2013 12:36 Oatsmaster wrote: To me, this post reads as him softclaiming town. He is like, scum dont want to call people town. I am calling someone town, therefore I am not scum. Also, he says that he wants to lynch Mr CC, and doesnt ask him any questions about anything. Prp has been reactive this whole game and not proactive. Reactive is a scumtell. Good to know you're alive. Do you know what the situation is with replacements? i.e. Are you getting modkilled? | ||
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your in bed; enjoy the drama and stop chainsaw defending...sweet dreams (yes i just chain-saw'd the chain-sawer but so what) Its between yam/jay let them slug it out | ||
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i.e. Jay makes case on Yam. Instead of defending Yam by refuting the evidence; you attack Jays credibility (you went ad-hominem on him too, making it worse) If i didnt like your read on phagga, i would be voting for you based on this action.. its actually pretty scummy. (and typically only scum do this). At the least you have moved up the ladder on my "to do" list. | ||
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but I am saying its your not place to dispute the case. That is up to yamato; you stepping in, has now wasted a vital chance to see yamato in action, and release any alignment indicators. This is already a scummy-ish move from yourself. (if yamato wasnt a probably town read for you; which I dont think he is) You stepping in, and choosing to attack Jay, regardless of valid or not, was delivered ad-hominem. This stepping in is the definition of chainsaw defense, and by virtue, scummy. As an aside, if jay really does suspect yamato; I would like to see a follow case introducing more of his own thoughts. | ||
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On February 11 2013 14:08 jaybrundage wrote: Also Yamato yes im sheep palmar from the grave. UMADBRO? Jay On February 11 2013 14:03 Mocsta wrote: As an aside, if jay really does suspect yamato; I would like to see a follow case introducing more of his own thoughts. | ||
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On February 11 2013 14:16 jaybrundage wrote: Actually speaking of Mocsta whats your opinion on Yamato? I want to hear his defense first, but currently he is my equal #1 (with phagga) My major problem now with yamato is how he chooses to defend cases #1 - On February 07 2013 11:17 yamato77 wrote: Djo, what do you make of Mocsta's case on me up there? I have a hard time thinking it came from scum but he quite clearly misunderstands quite a lot of stuff. On February 07 2013 12:54 yamato77 wrote: I'm starting to come around to the idea of town Mocsta, actually. I believe he has a scum read on me, wrong or not. I'm not going to pick apart his case on me, because honestly it's too time consuming to do so, but rather, I'll say this: Reread what you've quoted with the idea that I'm town in your head, and you'll see what I've been doing this game. It does no good for you, as town, to continue to pursue me. #2 - On February 11 2013 13:19 yamato77 wrote: ... Should I have included the post of jay's where he claims to have no reads? And all the ones he admits that he's just waiting on Palmar to post so he can sheep him? Yeah... Basically both times under pressure, he simply dismisses the cases and "moves on". I dont think a VT would have this air of confidence / nonchalant attitude. Case in point, my reaction to yamato case. To do this once, perhaps I can accept, but to do it twice in the same game; its not pro-town or town behaviour. | ||
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I can just make a plea that town focuses on targeting a maximum of two targets simultaneously- otherwise the thread will become cluttered, and questions/answers may become buried. For, the two candidates I would like pressured at the moment: #1 Yamato - as he has not sufficiently addressed what has been put forth #2 VE - as quite a few other people have addressed pressure his way and I do not recall it being defended. | ||
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On February 11 2013 16:15 Oatsmaster wrote: lol, so you dont think Snarf and Prp are scum? Your reasons for both of them are not cause they are scum, its cause they havent answered all the questions levied at them? Isnt that kinda of a shitty reason to focus on them? I am not saying Snarf/prplhz are not scum at all. I am saying: If you pressure 4-5 guys at the same time, maybe only 2 (if you're lucky 3) respond. Then the remaining 2 guys walk away and get forgotten. Hence, I think it is best to concentrate of 2 (max 3) guys; get the results we need, and then move on to the next target. | ||
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On February 11 2013 16:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Its just that you are focusing on different people than me Mocsta, so Im not gonna pressure 5 people. Also, respond to the second part. Why are both of them scummy? I see your point of view; and as long as you feel you can follow through with your pressure fine. Just note that you said before with CNY you are VERY busy - so I think it is reasonable to NOT expect follow through with the pressure. As for yam/VE being scum; I have stated my opinion on the matter; yam is my joint #1 scum read. And I am awaiting his response to the pressure put forth. On February 11 2013 16:10 Mocsta wrote: Oats, I cant stop you from pursuing who you want to scum hunt. I can just make a plea that town focuses on targeting a maximum of two targets simultaneously- otherwise the thread will become cluttered, and questions/answers may become buried. For, the two candidates I would like pressured at the moment: #1 Yamato - as he has not sufficiently addressed what has been put forth #2 VE - as quite a few other people have addressed pressure his way and I do not recall it being defended. I think this is pretty clear to be frank. I am not struggling with what does not make sense? Hopefully the above will suffice. | ||
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On February 11 2013 12:59 Mocsta wrote: Good to know you're alive. Do you know what the situation is with replacements? i.e. Are you getting modkilled? | ||
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On February 11 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Um Im posting so no? Like lol k Mocsta. Im struggling to understand how not answering questions makes them your n1 scum read. Dude, don't be a Snarfs...read the thread; I am not going to summarise what has already been stated. Either way; why are you trying to banter with me? If I am a town read of yours; you're cluttering the thread arguing with me; and not providing any benefit for it. | ||
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This has been a painful 12 hrs. Hopefully the USA shift has a bit more to add. I know I suggested before to only pressure 2/3 people, but that was based on people actually responding. This is basically the first post in almost 6 hours. Town, we still outnumber scum; please dont allow them to lurk in the shadows | ||
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On February 10 2013 06:07 VisceraEyes wrote: I did and was satisfied enough with what I found. Not interested in lynching you right now Cheese. That's mentioned in the post I'm working on. Still waiting for justification on this VE Plus, can you please expound in dot points why you think yamato is not a contender for lynch. | ||
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On February 12 2013 09:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah that got nixxed my bad. Cheese multiple times in his filter asks people to make a case on him, or "tunnel me bro"...with the intent to "get a better read on his accusers". That's too attention-whorey to be scummy. Not to mention he's one of like two people who have agreed with me on Snarfs like all game. I'm just not interested in lynching Cheese. Also, this is a minor point, but something that pretty well seals my read of him: I disagree. Asking people to discourse is not a town tell at all. Its an easy way to gain town cred; so i am surprised you have given CC the green light based on this type of justification. Further, people agreeing with your lynch candidates, is not indicative of town alignment either http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon So far, all I have seen are null tells; which you are construing as "sealed" town read. Regarding yamato, I'll filter him. I haven't read much on yamato to be honest. I welcome your read on yamato, hopefully there is more substance than the above. | ||
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I saw on the spready, Unclear: ?phagga?, prplhz Light Scum: Djo, Oats, Cheesecake Heavy Scum: yamato, snarfs, VE But your post list is VisceraEyes, Mr.Cheesecake, OatsMaster, Yamato77/prplhz VE: I am really starting to dislike if you couldnt tell by my last post to him Mr. CC: I am finding is blendy as; but has sat under radar enough for me to keep forgetting to read his filter. Oats: Is tough. middle of day 1, i had him as confirmed town. As the game has gone on, he has contributed less and less; BUT, I am willing to think of this as related to Chinese New year. If Oats is scum, I am willing to consider him as last prioirty to lynch. Snarfs: One thing in Snarfs favour is early game I asked for his read on a post from VE. Even though he already voted VE, he said the tell was "null".. This at least shows he is not 100% tunneled in his approach. I think Snarfs problem may have been he pushed his scum reads before establishing his innocence. Overall Jay, I am behind yam or VE today; im fuckn annoyed yam chose not to comment over night. Thats a pretty damn big indicator based on his track record. Also Jay, I think its great to use Palmar reads as a guide; but you need to show more of your own thought. e.g. phagga being cleared because Palmar had a doubt, is not good enough in my opinion. If we want a good town environment, we need to be able to discuss pros/cons of participants; quoting "palmar said so" is actually http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority and needs to stop. | ||
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On February 12 2013 12:02 yamato77 wrote: Jay I am losing interest in as a candidate. I can understand how people MIGHT view some of the things I do as scummy, or bandwagony. Dude, WTF is this shit. You vote me, I make a counter-case; you drop it. You have issues with Jay; he makes counter-case; you drop it. And you drop it without gving any reasons. Thats fuckn scummy and you know it. Furthermore, if people think this is how I play as mafia, they are sorely mistaken. I don't give a shit about anything as mafia. Look at my two mafia games. Do I make analysis posts? Do I make towncases? Do I change my reads? No. Have I done that this game? Yes. Any perceived change from my town meta is a POSITIVE one, in that I'm not picking stupid fights, not arguing with my scum reads, and not tunneling one player endlessly. If you guys lynch me for that, I quit this game. I think this is misleading information. I dont know much about your first scum game. But I know two things about your second scum game. (1) You were playing Mafia LIX as a mason simultaneously (2) You came in as a replacement for a false miller claim, and partnered with JX who was doing fuck all. I can see clear reasons for lack of motivation in your second scum game. Hence, I dont know what to expect of you via scum meta, and instead choose to judge by what actions in your filter. Yes, I take this seriously. It frustrates the shit out of me this game that I am being discussed as a lynch candidate. I am putting in more effort than most of you this game in figuring out what's going on, and you are all listening to Palmar, who wasn't even fucking playing the damn game. Fuck that. We're all putting in effort and figuring things out yam; dont get on a high horse like your shit doesnt stink. | ||
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I would call it ad-hominem, but considering you're not even arguing; your just shit flinging ad-hominem does not apply. ##Vote: yamato77 If you want some analysis.. read your last posts from Normal Mini 4 when you were lynched as scum. The insults and approach read pretty much like what you are spewing now. | ||
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Please calm down jay. Hopefully this will help. In Hero Mini, when palmar made his "Day1 reads vid"; when you make a post, he said he remembers you. Quite a few ppl he was like "who the fuck is this guy". You have made a dent in your idol's life | ||
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jay.. you need to take a step back, your getting way too heated oats thrives on these confrontations; let it go (for the time being) yam is intentionally baiting you now; just take a breather pls | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:31 yamato77 wrote: You guys are accusing me of points I have already addressed or things that are simply untrue. Umm .. no I am accusing you of not addressing things directed your way. and by all fuck am I NOT going to link those posts to you. Then instead of addressing your critics, you sling shit everywhere and go ultra-derogatory. Sorry yam; are you genuinely telling me that is pro-town yamato behaviour? I dont recall you asking like this in your mason game in mafia LIX, and I had you as a town read pretty early on. Fact is, yamato scum is NOT afraid to bus (that is clear from Normal Mini 4, where you bussed JX pretty much immediately) | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:30 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Unvote Jay. you have got to chill. Oats please expound what jay has to do with you unvoting yamato? | ||
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what did you actually address that was your way fuck all man u just did a summary "im teflon" speech | ||
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just like a politician. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:49 jaybrundage wrote: Lol i wish we had pms this game Mocsta XD. I have something I have an idea for ya but I think it should wait for later tmw are you gonna be here like 10-7 hours before the lynch I can swing 10 hrs from lynch .. 7 hours = 3am for me so no haha | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:53 yamato77 wrote: Scum jay wouldn't admit to sheeping, because it draws attention to the fact that he's not making independent analysis. Town jay doesn't care, and often gets lynched for saying scummy things like that. Why are you arguing with me about this? Mocsta's dumb argument that I "give up" my scum reads is blatantly false. Plenty of people opposed my opinion on JX, on Prplhz, on YOU, on Palmar, etc., yet I persisted. Because I'm town, and confident in my reads, wrong or not. I am not sure what your talking about; I dont recall building a case on you as the points were already highlighted by others. What I have requested is you address the points; you refuse to. each and every time. That summary post of yours, is not how to make a defense (if your serious about being town) if you are the vote leader (which either you are, or pretty fuckn close) | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:57 Oatsmaster wrote: Jay, do you think Prp is scum? On February 12 2013 13:36 Mocsta wrote: Oats please expound what jay has to do with you unvoting yamato? | ||
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this is just getting stupid i think we need yo start producing cases | ||
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On February 12 2013 14:17 yamato77 wrote: So, Snarfs is not a good lynch because you're making association cases again? I need better than that. What about his play suggests town to you at all? He's tunneled VE all game and done shit else. If the problem is that you view VE as mafia, I can address the points Sloosh raises against him some time tomorrow, but I want you to filter Snarfs and think about his alignment first. I already said with snarfs. I think he made his case on ve too early instead of establishing innocence and that was why he cops grief. | ||
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what usaid now about snarfs applies to 3/4 of the people in the game. Basically no one has discussed much. Points are raised and then never answered. Its not just you. Others are doing the same thing. As an aside I know this is useless but i REALlY dont like djo. I hope he doesnt get replaced im feeling scum there | ||
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early game Snarfs voted VE and they bantered I asked snarfs about a tell on VE.. he returned "null" Like its a small thing, but if Snarfs was 100% tunneled on VE, he woulda said it was scummy as fuck.. that he didn't shows to me, he has thought VE was scum; built his case and stuck to his guns. The con of snarfs is, recently (like others) he has been non-existant which could represent lack of care. Yamato, i *still* dont like your approach to case defense this game. In fact I abhor it. However, you have at least showed you care this phase, which is more I can say for 3/4 of the ppl remaining. ##Unvote ##Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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With Djo, Maybe I misread his attempts at a trap; i just did not like at all how he handled the RNG situation between me, oats; I know D1 reads change and develop, but, he really handled it poorly. Either way, this game has pretty much become a mexican stand-off. Your onto sl0osh + snarfs; they both onto you etc On February 12 2013 10:11 Mocsta wrote: I disagree. Asking people to discourse is not a town tell at all. Its an easy way to gain town cred; so i am surprised you have given CC the green light based on this type of justification. Further, people agreeing with your lynch candidates, is not indicative of town alignment either http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon So far, all I have seen are null tells; which you are construing as "sealed" town read. You have showed some reasoned thoughts with Djo; I would like your opinion on the above. Thanks, | ||
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Who are the 4 scum ppl to you in the game? | ||
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On February 12 2013 17:52 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont really see thats its all that scummy. He just made a case, but concluded that he rather lynch Snarfs. Voting the same person as your scumread doesnt mean much. Ever heard of busses? Yamato is on the money man. Who goes to the effort of building a case; and then saying at the end.. oohh I'd consider lynching you. Thats straight out scum vibe. Tack that on with his chainsaw defense on yamato yesterday (over jay) its now not looking good @ all. The only reason i felt good about cheese, was because he laid into phagga; but cc actions on his own dont hold up anymore. | ||
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On February 12 2013 18:51 phagga wrote: Mocsta, what do you think of the two points I raised regarding VE? I am voting for VE based on two criteria (1) Gut feel; I actually really like VE; his post syncs well with me and I can't pinpoint why. This was the same problem I had with Gonzaw in Mafia LIX (I was the only town to give him a mayor vote) - gonzaw was SCUM I know the above is weak, but so what; intuition is a skill in mafia & (2) The whole; i think palmar is scum; so i am going to vote his "lynch candidate" - i.e. prplhz so phagga, as for your question. I agree with your first point (VE voting the scum read) but your second is pretty weak and based on circumstantial evidence. Yes the time stamps show 30mins expired; but hey, maybe he spent that whole time jerking off. The point is, thats grasping at straws. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=57#1135 | ||
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On February 13 2013 02:40 yamato77 wrote: By that I mean I think I covered why I switched my read on Mocsta. I don't think a mafia player would go through the effort to make a case on me like that. It's far more likely for him to be town and think me mafia for attacking him than him being mafia and coming up with enough shit to throw at me to make me look bad for attacking him. My meta read was weak anyway, so it wasn't important for me to continue to bog down the thread with long responses to him just to get a better read on him. Baby, even though it was always implied; those WERE the words I need to hear from you. *kiss & make-up* pls | ||
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The Gods have spoken zeus is trades for hades | ||
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On February 13 2013 07:52 phagga wrote: Mocsta, the bolded part does not really make much sense for me, could you please explain this in more detail? It means: he came on board and tunneled the shit out of VE; whilst he was viewed as null. As townie, first thing is to establish innocence and then push your agenda. if no one trusts you, cases will never take off; and yes, ppl will think your tunnelling | ||
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On February 13 2013 07:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: You lynch Snarfs, he flips town, town knows exactly who to lynch. If VE flips town we are absolutely fucked. . Mr.CC you realise you're referring to yourself here ? | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:01 slOosh wrote: Yea that's his point. That as scum you wouldn't do a 2 for 1 trade. He is dead serious in the spotlight and it's incredibly hard to back off from something like that. that went over my head not even sure who you are responding to | ||
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half the cunts are unreadable cos everyone lurking the same amount all i know is; prplhz annoys the absolute shit out of me and I really like VE Gut tells me to flip the order around; ppl that annoy you are typically town and dont care (unless trolling; and i think prplhz has had enough "logic at times" to say he isnt trolling) | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Thank Christ guys, this is epic level save. If Snarfs flips scum I hope his team is as easy to find as I think they will be. Thanks for no caps. And if he flips town, we completely fucked in the ass with a pineapple | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:35 VisceraEyes wrote: I can't imagine it Moc...look at how he pushed me D1. Every single time he mentioned me he was all "Yeah? Right guys?" It's like he didn't want to be the genesis of the wagon or something, in spite of being the one with the case. He scum bro. If feel it in my BRAIN. But, think of the three guys your coaching. They could use more VE love hahah*please dont respond to that* VE, I know you had a crack explaining this already. but please, one more time Why did you vote prplhz for lynch, when he was your scum reads, target (i.e palmar voted prplhz; you wanted palmar gone; yet swapped votes from palmar -> prplhz) | ||
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now, prplhz haze is on you.. are you sure you would rather vote snarfs then prplhz | ||
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##Vote: Snarfs Its actually pretty weird he hasnt been present at all recently; especially now he is vote leader, and cant even make a statement. | ||
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On February 13 2013 09:28 slOosh wrote: But yea, seriously this rereading stuff is great. That's my lesson for this game. Take time to reread, even if it means you can't post as much as you would like to. Since Sunday, I been wanting to re-read like 4 times, but just fuck, cant pull myself to it Are you reading the thread as a whole doc; or just going through 12 filters? My goal today is after this lynch, to re-read everything; gonna need it to have a clear mind for nominations | ||
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So VE is cleared in my head by association. | ||
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On February 13 2013 11:21 jaybrundage wrote: Wow did not see that coming. Snarf's complete lack of input this game really made me think he was just a silent townie. Glad you guys saw who was scum better then I did. Great job town That is a FUCKN weird comment to make. | ||
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Expounded as: Your read on Snarfs: Possible scum -> still scummy -> so many scum want him dead (based off palmar reads) Confirmed by: On February 13 2013 07:28 jaybrundage wrote: I think VE is scum for sure. We need you on this lynch to kill him. He has been soft defended by numerous players. Because hes scum and they don't want him to die. I don't think Snarfs is scum Because currently the people on him are on my scum list. And the people on VE are on my town list. Also VE has done alot of scummy things. Phagga you wrote a big case on VE before. I'm surprised that you have any doubts about VE At no stage did you throw up silent townie. You have a bees-dick filter, and you can't even remember your bullshit reasons. | ||
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But im not ruling out CC instigating a bus to ride home the town cred either. basically stuck with 24hrs to re-read the thread and get my own opinion on things.. sorry im being useless the past couple days; i wont make excuses for it; jsut will pick up my act. | ||
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On February 13 2013 11:41 slOosh wrote: But before that I, the main pusher of the VE wagon, expressed the possibility of switching over. You can see that in my posts with Mr. Cheesecake. I'd argue scum anticipated the possibility of me switching over and so moved their votes. But if you interpret it differently, I can't tell you that you are wrong, since I'm speculating on scum strategy and I can't prove what they are doing. I think that is one of the truest statements made in the game so far. Scum QT FTW | ||
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Town is in desperate need of someone of someone to promote discussion and be the pro-town hero. + whether a good heuristic or not; snarfs death makes you confirmed town in my eyes. So at least I can trust you. | ||
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On February 13 2013 12:36 yamato77 wrote: BAM! I LOVE THE SMELL OF ROASTED MAFIA IN THE MORNIN' I prefer a root but what ever floats ya boat yammie | ||
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Cos tha boss said so. | ||
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On February 13 2013 21:53 phagga wrote: I'll tell you tomorrow when Dawn is over. Thats what she (scum) said | ||
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3 T; 2T 1S, 1T 2S; 3S | ||
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On February 14 2013 08:19 VisceraEyes wrote: No...and frankly I'm disturbed that you're asking me this question. y? you said you would step up to the plate of being town leader? I thought u enjoyed having my trust? | ||
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no need to get so defensive next time aite Was just a banter qusetion cos Im bored and I know you're present. | ||
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right? | ||
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when I have been scum, I am more than willing to change NK actions in the last 5 minutes. Don't see why that can't happen here, I am after all just a low-experience player; and still making those plays. P.S. Nothing wrong with being a jerk; dont catch them scummy muda farkers playing mr. nice guy. P.P.S If I play along; i think scum actually have a VERY tough choice. Some reads appear to be heavily split between some thinking town, some thinking scum - given the same evidence. Hard to gauge whether scum would put these guys on the nominations; or save them for open days. *If i knew VE, this game would be over* | ||
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So whose ya best town read at the moment? Im sure that won't hurt nominations. If they in; it becomes a choice of two: so easier And if they are not: you didnt change nomination outcome so doesnt hurt either way to share. | ||
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you know what they say in mafia right? If you gotta problem, talk to me, build a case OR + Show Spoiler + Fuck off No sarcasm intended | ||
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posting this as close to the nomination window as I can (assume actions lock in at 10:00am (my time) and its 9:59am now. Regardless of who is up there my picks for the remaining three mafia = (1)Mr. CC - Led the bus onto Snarfs: plan is to ride the town cred home.I been suspicious of this fucker for a while. (2)Yamato/phagga - one of those two is scum; haven't made up my mind, im (slightly) leaning towards phagga (3)VisceraEyes - Yeap ! You heard it right here. Scum was in a double lynch/bus situation Day3, and decided to save VE over Snarfs (and can you blame them... ) Me sucking up to VE was a ploy to hopefully lull scum into false security. If you notice: P.S. based on Mr.CC starting to put the hooks in, by casting me as "null"; I am more than expecting to be on the nomination table again. If any of those 3 people are nominated; I am voting them full stop. P.P.S. Sl0osh has shown before in this game he is willing to reconsider his targets (i.e. early Day1 on yamato). I dont take it as scummy that he switched off VE. I think he genuinely said what happened; re-read events, and decided Snarfs was a more guaranteed lynch to burn red. | ||
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##Vote: Mr. Cheesecake | ||
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I think sl0osh was chosen because his vote swap looking "scummy" to some ppl and Mr.CC chosen to ride that town cred home baby. Maybe if we just all majority vote for Mr.CC, we can shorten this cycle to 24hrs? | ||
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On February 14 2013 11:20 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm definitely not lynching Cheese...because unlike Mocsta, I don't live in Bizarro-world where scum try and kill each other off in a game where basically one dead scum = instant loss for scum. Therefor I'm taking Cheese' save of me for what it HAD to be: a townie with a good read making the right call. Mocsta trying to play this up as some masterminded scheme DEFINITELY makes him my lynch preference for today. Keep it simple, stupid. ##Vote: Mocsta Even the newbies know of your reputation and discuss your play VE. Masterminded scheme is definitely a gambit that is second nature for someone of your prestige. Stop trying to play down the team as if they are dumb. | ||
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Do you think I am town? If you don't, I am more than happy to address any of your queries/concerns. If you do; then do you not find it odd, Mr.CC has conveniently been starting to read me as "null" ever since he slammed down Snarfs and got the town-cred. Out of your two possibilities, I think #1 (They gave Mr.CC easy town cred; and took out a guy barely posting (Snarfs)) | ||
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On February 14 2013 11:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Anyway, this is probably another all townie lynch anyway. I doubt Mocsta is scum at this point, just incredibly lulzy. I'm just confused as to why the fuck, if we're all in this scumteam, that I voted Snarfs since day 1 (and almost got him lynched, right?), snarfs did nothing but attack his scum mate all game, etc etc. Seriously, it's really a stretch. I have no idea who the fourth guy is in this ridiculous bus marathon we've got going on. Probably Yamato since I've waffled on him so hard. Hey, there's that word again. The interesting thing reading the thread is.. the posts flow after posts. what i mean is.. though timestamps are given; its easy to forget the time duration between post. What I am saying is: Its easy to say I beat this horse blah blah, but a lot of time elapsed between commentary with Snarfs/CC/VE; which gives more than ample time to discuss tactics in the scum QT. Obviously this can apply to anyone; but, don't act like all your posts about Snarfs have been off-the-cuff rapid-fire posts. They haven't. | ||
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On February 14 2013 11:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Mocsta, what would have happened if this supposed bus failed? Say I couldn't convince SlOosh or anyone else over to the wagon of justice. Wouldn't that apparently be GG for the scumteam? Why? If anything you setup for even easier win. If VE lynched red; pretty easy for Snarfs to go.. I knew it all along, thank me for riding him hard this entire game. The gambit is actually pretty clever. | ||
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Lets talk through this pls. | ||
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I admit playing two games, caused me to lose motivation for this game; so my activity dropped significantly. But, this nomination has given me the kick start I needed. If we are talking about "usefulness" lets talk about current reads. Mine: VE / Mr.CC / phagga/yamato Mr. CC: jay / phagga / prplhz As a start; can you tell me which list of reads you prefer? | ||
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Where are you standing currently. | ||
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What is that an answer to? | ||
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On February 14 2013 13:20 Oatsmaster wrote: right now Mocsta, you are posting irrelevent questions in my opinion. So explain. Its not irrelevant at all. You and Jay admit you did not have a positive read on CC until after the Snarfs lynch. Before the bus I was calling out CC for scummy action and your reads on CC were not 'useful town'; Now after CC drove home Snarfs; you want to keep him in the game. Fact: Town has been in a shit house state since the first nominations: i.e. no-one listens to anybody; and no one has tried to take ownership of the town leader role. In this environment, scum can easily sacrifice one member for town cred. Its not even a gamble - that is how much of a sorry-state we are in. For most of the game, you and others have acknowledged I am town. My job this cycle is to convince you Mr. CC is scum. I am asking questions like the above; because I am trying to understand where to focus my energies on. Lastly, please keep an open mind when it comes to scum tactics. Jay/Xatalos just won over guys like WhereBugsGo in DesertMini using bussing to great success. Some of the people on my scum list are highly regarded on this forum for scum play; its not out of the question they would use bussing as a tactic to distance themselves. Heck, in my scum game I did it too and I was a newbie.. | ||
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On February 14 2013 14:14 jaybrundage wrote: Given that your voting CC mocsta who's your vote for going to be tmw given you live. Your first post is a fence sitter. You say "we should go for CC" but then say "he also could just b town". The most important comment is.. without Palmar in the game.. why is VE not nominated. So who is my vote going on next cycle? The man wit 'dem eyes. VE, was a close shave yesterday; and will be bleeding red if I am alive next cycle. | ||
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this is funny as.. VE, thanks for teaching me some tricks on how to handle these situations | ||
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whilst its the scum who feel the need to set the tone and vote me and they not even saying town, now they trying to paint scum this is hillarious | ||
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On February 14 2013 10:59 Mocsta wrote: OK guys, posting this as close to the nomination window as I can (assume actions lock in at 10:00am (my time) and its 9:59am now. Regardless of who is up there my picks for the remaining three mafia = (1)Mr. CC - Led the bus onto Snarfs: plan is to ride the town cred home.I been suspicious of this fucker for a while. (2)Yamato - one of those two is scum; haven't made up my mind, im (slightly) leaning towards phagga (3)VisceraEyes - Yeap ! You heard it right here. Scum was in a double lynch/bus situation Day3, and decided to save VE over Snarfs (and can you blame them... ) Me sucking up to VE was a ploy to hopefully lull scum into false security. If you notice: P.S. based on Mr.CC starting to put the hooks in, by casting me as "null"; I am more than expecting to be on the nomination table again. If any of those 3 people are nominated; I am voting them full stop. P.P.S. Sl0osh has shown before in this game he is willing to reconsider his targets (i.e. early Day1 on yamato). I dont take it as scummy that he switched off VE. I think he genuinely said what happened; re-read events, and decided Snarfs was a more guaranteed lynch to burn red. k phagga is removed now lynch the list above for the win | ||
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On February 14 2013 15:34 jaybrundage wrote: @Mocsta Yes I don't know his alignment earlier on I entertained the possibility of him being scum. But I still don't think its likely. Also VE Yamato do you guys seriously view Mocsta as scum. I think his constant pushing the thread for discussion has been very townie in my eyes. Also I would also try to focus the lynch on tmw. If there are actually three townies on the board then we waste time talking about who we want to lynch. Scum can get away with talking about whos the scummiest of the three townies. What we should do is simply pressure our actually scum reads and not whos on the block. Yamato, VE what are your thoughts on Phagga and Prplhz? Jay, you have all the facts in front of you. Its up to you how you read it. Just remember, It has been clear for the majority of the game I am town. Why do you think all of a sudden *Certain* individuals are calling me scum NOW? Scum absolutely shat themselves the way I outted the team, and predicted that CC would be in the nominations. You make it even clearer, that VE should be in the nominations; just like Town Palmer >>> Town anyone. Town VE >>> Town CC. -- why isnt his dick on the chopping block? Even CC preempting this nomination, suggesting I am scum; and then suddenly (After my list) reverting to "null" yamato wants to call me blendy, but CC is the blendiest scum muda farker out there. Scum are trying to make their presence known by voting first and voting hard; even calling me scum now. Hoping guys like you and Oats will just sheep on. If you want a bigger tell: look at you and oats. You are trying to figure things out. It is scum who are trying to force a stance so early into the nominations. So far, it has been scum doing the majority of the talking. Once the rest of town gives their feedback on the situation, I will present why Mr. CC is scum (+ its valentines day right now, and that will take precedence over mafia at all times ) | ||
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On February 14 2013 15:42 yamato77 wrote: Mocsta is one of my actual scum reads. I'm trying to figure this game out, and lynching Mocsta first helps me tremendously in doing so, aside from the fact that he's nominated. Today, though, we lynch Mocsta, because neither CC or Sloosh is a good candidate at all. CC being picked into this group is insanely silly for mafia to do. Sloosh might still be mafia, but Mocsta is the best candidate right now. Yeah, so I guess I have permission to brush off any accusations you make; just like you brushed off my case against you. LOLZ So Yamaha, expound on how lynching me helps figure out the game. & based on what you saying CC >> sl0osh >> mocsta. sl0osh You happy with that assessment? | ||
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just walk away They are filter burying cos they are scared. it actually just makes Cc more guilty Guys like yamato rarely post at this hour; and yet, now, he can't stop. its funny how they (scum) collapsed so quickly. | ||
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On February 14 2013 16:28 yamato77 wrote: Look at Mocsta calling me scum with zero justification. You gave up your only leg to stand on when you unvoted me, BRAH My third Leg is more than enough to hold me up against your bees-dick of a case. | ||
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lol | ||
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On February 14 2013 16:41 yamato77 wrote: There's no fucking way mafia would put up two guys that were clearly not getting lynched day 2 again day 4 if both of them were town. They would if they were mafia, though. You know, its a rule of thumb in life and mafia. When someone is trying to "force" shit down your throat... it still tastes like shit & when someone is so vehemently against what mafia will do... its cos mafia are talking yam.. i dont know why mafia do what they do; i can only guess and if lucky make an educated guess. that you know with certainty.. well.. that is knowledge you (As town) would not possess. regardless Your fate has been sealed by your actions; for you, it is simply a matter of time. P.S. And you have not swayed me from CC as you have hoped Good night yamato, thanks for trying. | ||
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I will bring back to the fore three posts. On February 14 2013 10:59 Mocsta wrote: OK guys, posting this as close to the nomination window as I can (assume actions lock in at 10:00am (my time) and its 9:59am now. Regardless of who is up there my picks for the remaining three mafia = (1)Mr. CC - Led the bus onto Snarfs: plan is to ride the town cred home.I been suspicious of this fucker for a while. (2)Yamato - one of those two is scum; haven't made up my mind, im (slightly) leaning towards phagga (3)VisceraEyes - Yeap ! You heard it right here. Scum was in a double lynch/bus situation Day3, and decided to save VE over Snarfs (and can you blame them... ) Me sucking up to VE was a ploy to hopefully lull scum into false security. If you notice: P.S. based on Mr.CC starting to put the hooks in, by casting me as "null"; I am more than expecting to be on the nomination table again. If any of those 3 people are nominated; I am voting them full stop. P.P.S. Sl0osh has shown before in this game he is willing to reconsider his targets (i.e. early Day1 on yamato). I dont take it as scummy that he switched off VE. I think he genuinely said what happened; re-read events, and decided Snarfs was a more guaranteed lynch to burn red. On February 14 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote: k phagga is removed now lynch the list above for the win | ||
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On February 14 2013 15:34 jaybrundage wrote: @Mocsta Yes I don't know his alignment earlier on I entertained the possibility of him being scum. But I still don't think its likely. Also VE Yamato do you guys seriously view Mocsta as scum. I think his constant pushing the thread for discussion has been very townie in my eyes. Also I would also try to focus the lynch on tmw. If there are actually three townies on the board then we waste time talking about who we want to lynch. Scum can get away with talking about whos the scummiest of the three townies. What we should do is simply pressure our actually scum reads and not whos on the block. Yamato, VE what are your thoughts on Phagga and Prplhz? On February 14 2013 15:57 Mocsta wrote: Jay, you have all the facts in front of you. Its up to you how you read it. Just remember, It has been clear for the majority of the game I am town. Why do you think all of a sudden *Certain* individuals are calling me scum NOW? Scum absolutely shat themselves the way I outted the team, and predicted that CC would be in the nominations. You make it even clearer, that VE should be in the nominations; just like Town Palmer >>> Town anyone. Town VE >>> Town CC. -- why isnt his dick on the chopping block? Even CC preempting this nomination, suggesting I am scum; and then suddenly (After my list) reverting to "null" yamato wants to call me blendy, but CC is the blendiest scum muda farker out there. Scum are trying to make their presence known by voting first and voting hard; even calling me scum now. Hoping guys like you and Oats will just sheep on. If you want a bigger tell: look at you and oats. You are trying to figure things out. It is scum who are trying to force a stance so early into the nominations. So far, it has been scum doing the majority of the talking. Once the rest of town gives their feedback on the situation, I will present why Mr. CC is scum (+ its valentines day right now, and that will take precedence over mafia at all times ) | ||
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On February 14 2013 15:59 Mocsta wrote: Yeah, so I guess I have permission to brush off any accusations you make; just like you brushed off my case against you. LOLZ So Yamaha, ... based on what you saying CC >> sl0osh >> mocsta. sl0osh You happy with that assessment? | ||
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On February 14 2013 16:52 yamato77 wrote: You really have no logical basis to stand on. ?? On February 14 2013 16:30 Mocsta wrote: My third Leg is more than enough to hold me up against your bees-dick of a case. Reads pretty logical to me. Night Yam-Yam. Stop being a try-hard now will ya. | ||
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So far, only you and Jay have chipped in. Want feedback from the other town members before making a fully fleshed out case. | ||
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Thanks for the "put down" but in this situation I will take it. Gonna head off now anyways with Valentines Day and all. Be back in maybe 6 hours. I will leave you to the flamer (yamato). Have fun and play nice. P.S. yam yam heres some presents for you. On February 09 2013 12:27 yamato77 wrote: Mocsta as town, while not known for the accuracy of his reads, is at least easy to read and active, which is more than enough reason to not kill him. Having the towniest people kept alive the longest benefits us in this situation. Eventually mafia will have no choice but to put themselves up against these ultra-town players in nominations, and that will be there undoing. Under no circumstances do I think we should even consider Mocsta as a choice. On February 11 2013 12:45 yamato77 wrote: For town reads, Mocsta and Sloosh look really town to me, mostly from their play while under the gun. I'm more confident on Mocsta than Sloosh, but I would defend either one's towniness. Funny how you can bullshit as much as you want; but the filter don't lie | ||
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Out of my reads given prior to nominations; I am firm on VE / Yamato. If I am left alive, I will be pushing for VE head next cycle (as lets be honest here, yamato is not a threat regardless of alignment; the same can not be said for VE) Mr. CC was my weakest read; so I will being to formulate my case for Mr.CC. I will have this ready at some stage tonight (work is too busy today to do a case) so probably in 12hrs. | ||
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That doesnt make sense... if I am town, why am I going to be voted off next cycle. If you are going to vote your "so-called" townie; cut the bullshit; be a man; and give the real reason. | ||
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Your posting yesterday was flame hard, and burying posts. Thats typical scum play; and further to that, you have only exhibited that type of behaviour when under the pump. You know whats funny; everyone saying how great a player sl0osh is.. even he said it as a criteria for his nomination Day1. Yet, what has he actually done this game?
I said before, Mr.CC was my weakest read out of my scum reads. When I look through him tonight, I am also going to look through sl0osh; cos that guy has been fuckn blendy too. Quick summary of sl0osh over multiple days
All townies dream of having that control in their play (to give up a false read); but who actually does it without much resistance? The answer? + Show Spoiler + No One Yet sl0osh has already done this behaviour multiple times. Theres some food for thought. | ||
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i did not think the content was beneficial either. I thought the above so strongly; I felt the need to repost a couple of my posts. I took it as burying with that context. | ||
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just means you find someone scummier do we really need to go over the basics? Anyways, what do you think of what I said about sl0osh above>? | ||
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On February 15 2013 16:55 yamato77 wrote: I suppose I just plain don't understand why you view me as mafia at all, despite my attempts to try. I think I have stated this before. Day1, your case on me was crap so I thought you was mafia and couldnt make a case with conviction. My other problem was, when I made the counter case; you refused to go through it. - As town I have done this before as well (but only when the case is terrible; and I dont think my case was that terrible given the knowledge I had) Your play throughout nominations Day2 made me have a good read on you. Then when jay made a case on you; you reacted EXACTLY the same way as when I made a case on you. I find it hard to believe a town would deflect two cases off them like this.. regardless of how shit they thought it was. I raised this point to you several times; and you ignore it each time. That is the crux of what I find scummy about you: You refuse to refute any claims of you being scummy. If you are town, you would have no reason to deflect this. | ||
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Could have resolved our differences yesterday instead. | ||
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##Vote:sl0osh Read through the game; what has this guy actually done? On February 15 2013 16:29 Mocsta wrote: You know whats funny; everyone saying how great a player sl0osh is.. even he said it as a criteria for his nomination Day1. Yet, what has he actually done this game?
I said before, Mr.CC was my weakest read out of my scum reads. When I look through him tonight, I am also going to look through sl0osh; cos that guy has been fuckn blendy too. Quick summary of sl0osh over multiple days
All townies dream of having that control in their play (to give up a false read); but who actually does it without much resistance? The answer? + Show Spoiler + No One Yet sl0osh has already done this behaviour multiple times. Theres some food for thought. He has been a politician the whole time.
Then there is the stuff people already discussed:
I haven't seen any of the anticipated expert analysis? Is he any closer to having the game solved than JX was? Why again is this guy with a 4-page filter so valuable to town? | ||
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On February 16 2013 07:14 jaybrundage wrote: Also Mocsta what happened to your CC scum read. While you did say it was your weakest read is it still a read at all. Also your new thoughts on VE Yamato plz What happened: Before going through CC filter: i decided to do a quick analysis of Day 1 - Day4 i.e. I listed every single vote; and every time someone gave reads. it is from there I noticed that CC has been relatively forthcoming all game; whereas, sl0osh has made good impressions and then taken long breathers - only resurrecting when it suits his agenda. I find that to be a problem. I still find it strange from Day1 that sl0osh knew he would be up for nominations. I said from the start is was strange; because his absence from the thread shed him in a scummy light; there was no need for him to be there.. yet he was. I am back to thinking yamato is scum; and he would be my top candidate tomorrow now. Some problems I have with yamato
The other thing with yamato is; he made a big point to say yesterday he doesn;t make defenses on cases founded on misinterpretations blah blah; but so far his cases seem to be full of it. - Convenient double standards. Then there is that early list of town reads; perhaps he thinks he is WBG or toadestern LOL Hopefully I have simplified my points enough for yamato to comment. Final scum; if yamato flips scum, I would swap VE for prplhz Its hard to resist VE; especially after his crappy case on me. But yamato meta read on prplhz is *VERY* suspicious. With VE case on me: Its worse than yamato original case on me. My comments on Snarfs read transparent; I did not think he was scum for a long time. Why does that make me scum? My reason for voting him was transparent too; when a guy is under the pump they come in defend; that was the tell I needed to swap votes to Snarfs. I do not see the problem VE is trying to fabricate. Compare to the overly apologetic sl0osh; interesting. ===================== The wildcard for me is debears. Djo play was odd/bad town at best, and scummy at worst. What has debears agenda been since coming in as a replacement.... throwing dirt at me? It has been clear for some time now that I have been town; yet this nomination, some have piped up voiced concerns when the concerns were lacking before. Djo has been a clear supporter of that movement; which is odd. | ||
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On February 16 2013 03:41 debears wrote: Mocsta also tried to push counter candidates hard all day 3 away from snarfs ##vote mocsta Didn't realise pushing people you had voted (before Snarfs became a bandwagon) was a scum tell... | ||
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On February 16 2013 03:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Here is why I think Mocsta is scum. First of all, his response to my Snarfs case. What I didn't like about this post at the time was how he seemed to agree with my case, while at the same time not agreeing with Snarfs' lynch? The only town-motivated reasoning I can find for this is that maybe he was more certain of who he was pushing. At this point in time it's Yamato. Let's take a look at his case. Reading this is like going back in time. Its my thoughts exactly as I had them. I liked the points in general, but I still had a stronger read on yamato. Good to know you could figure this one out. So he's not interested in lynching It doesn't wash. He doesn't read as any more certain of a Yamato lynch, but made a special effort to debunk my Snarfs lynch before it even took off. He didn't even let any pressure build on Snarfs before stating unequivocally that he would not support the lynch. LOL, so in the Day1 crapshoot, if you happen to think a scum could be town; then you are scum?? Is this the what your reputed experience dictates? Yamato was my read; and if you’re telling me that reading my yamato case I was not set on lynching him; then you are full of shit. Even the TL;DR suggests I want to lynch him duly expressed with a vote… Let's fast-forward to the Snarfs lynch. During this time, Mocsta's time was spent trying to justify not voting for Snarfs while simultaneously casting suspicion on the two people responsible for him being a candidate in the first place. See the following posts. And what is wrong with that? Its good play; and you know it. It is also funny how you choose to manipulate this situation to Snarfs; when it was clear and transparent I was making a general statement on how to play. Acknowledging that Snarfs is being looked at, but asks that people stop looking at him. I'm not sure what this post is supposed to say about Snarfs' alignment - I think it's saying that Snarfs isn't reading the thread, which I take as a scumtell, but could just as easily be lazy town. It's extremely fence-sitty, something he can be found calling people out for much earlier than this. Yeah you hit it on the head.. hey guess what, when I voted Snarfs Day4 I said its because of no posting.. meaning, I confirmed that lazy town -> scumtell… lemme guess VE, that’s scummy as fuck too? LOL And here is Mocsta trying to discredit my town-read on CC while simultaneously trying to cast suspicion on me. I provided my reasoning, and frankly it doesn't matter to me if Mocsta thinks it's good enough because at this point I'm not interested in lynching Cheese...and from what I'm seeing in the thread, neither is Mocsta. So what's the point of this? It's to shed doubt on both CC and VE simultaneously. And what are CC and VE simultaneously doing? Trying to lynch scum Snarfs. Right, so me have a scum read on you; me have a VOTE on you.. and I am not meant to point out (intentional) weak play from my scum read…. LOL Your pointing out all the posts that make my play transparent, and make it clear I am town VE. Maybe you don’t care about my reasoning whether scum or tell; but your tells for clear green, are non-alignment indicative… and in context of your pushes all game that’s scummy as fuck. Its exactly as pointed out there, and pointed out before. I didn’t like the activity and converted my read from lazy town -> scum tell. Lemme guess, sl0osh vote swap boded well with you because he apologized? | ||
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Can I ask for some succinct pointers on why VE is clear town to you? | ||
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Its kinda unique circumstance? | ||
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Thoughts are outlined.. With prplhz vote on CC and his attitude this nomination I would upgrade him above yam. Jay u really need to step up. I think you are town but that is no excuse to jack off all the time. Your recent vote on Cc is a good example. Debears needs to be scrutinised as well. Overall there are just too many lurkers in this game. Now that there are several people playing multiple games I see the lurking getting worse. Best of luck to town. | ||
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Have fun see ya later | ||
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YAY | ||
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On February 14 2013 10:59 Mocsta wrote: OK guys, posting this as close to the nomination window as I can (assume actions lock in at 10:00am (my time) and its 9:59am now. Regardless of who is up there my picks for the remaining three mafia = (1)Mr. CC - Led the bus onto Snarfs: plan is to ride the town cred home.I been suspicious of this fucker for a while. (2) (3)VisceraEyes - Yeap ! You heard it right here. Scum was in a double lynch/bus situation Day3, and decided to save VE over Snarfs (and can you blame them... ) Me sucking up to VE was a ploy to hopefully lull scum into false security. P.S. based on Mr.CC starting to put the hooks in, by casting me as "null"; I am more than expecting to be on the nomination table again. If any of those 3 people are nominated; I am voting them full stop. I was hoping scum woulda shit themselves more in the QT.. ohh well | ||
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